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petertenthije
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 1:35 pm

pune wrote:
What I find funny and ironic is that at the same time if an American or multiple Americans are killed anywhere outside the U.S. it can become a diplomatic incident. While if is shot in the good old U.S. its an everyday occurence.

Come to think of it, we are overdue on another Benghazi hearing. :D
 
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Aaron747
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 1:38 pm

pune wrote:
What I find funny and ironic is that at the same time if an American or multiple Americans are killed anywhere outside the U.S. it can become a diplomatic incident. While if is shot in the good old U.S. its an everyday occurence.


Yeah, wow....when you put it that way....
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 1:39 pm

c933103 wrote:
Problem is what is the cause of these losses of life.
Like in this case, is removing gun from the element going to solve the issue? I don't think so, given there are tons of cases in China where gasoline, knife, trucks, chemicals, are being used independently or in combination, in order to carry out attack against a group of unspecific people, to express their hatred against things they don't like in the society, ranging from corrupt police to personal relationship affairs.
Given the level of preparedness in this specific attack, I doubt the attacker changing their weapon from gun to something else would result in less fatality or injury of victims.


In the USA those options are all still available, but guns are the most efficient way to mass murder people (for the average citizen). Trucks are definitely very hazardous and lethal, but it's telling that there are so many mass shootings in the US with guns. Knives are a lot harder to carry out mass killings with, you just need 2-3 people to apprehend the killer, but gunmen can get through quite a few before being stopped or killing themselves.

Given that every other developed country has significantly lower deaths in all ways related to guns, I don't think it's an unfair or unjustified assessment that the guns play a huge role.
 
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scbriml
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 2:07 pm

TriJets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
TriJets wrote:

You ignore the fact that most crime and most gun crime is concentrated in urban areas in the United States. Telling people who live in the areas at greatest risk for crime that they don't need a way to defend themselves is out of touch. Telling the single mom with a restraining order out against her violent boyfriend that she can't own a handgun to protect herself and her children is out of touch. Disarm the criminals first and then we can start talking about gun control.


Absolutely - they must be disarmed, but in order to do that, you need to legalize/regulate urban drug networks and dismantle transnational gun smuggling within and into/out of the US. That would require steps at the federal level conservatives are unlikely to ever support and many states will cry 10th amendment foul over. On the left the ACLU would probably oppose criminal gun seizures too.


And even if those measures were taken, it would still take generations for the effects to be truly felt. Unfortunately, I just don't see anyone having the political appetite for it. Politicians want instant gratification because they are up for reelection in a year or two, not twenty.


Just because a destination is difficult to get to, doesn't mean it isn't worth starting on the journey.

I've yet to hear any of the pro-gun posters here provide a cogent argument why gun ownership shouldn't be registered/licenced, trained, tested and insured (just like everyone is for driving a car).
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 348
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 2:25 pm

TriJets wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
Thoughts and prayers... bla bla...

Right says you have laws enforce them. No changes whatsoever over my dead body to an AMENDMENT to the constitution. I have a right to keep any kind of weapon, stuff you.

Moderates / left say - well the laws don't work so they need changing. You won't spend extra money on mental health, you won't put in place more stringent background checks, you won't limit ammo clip sizes or reduce what guns people can own, where or what they can buy.

Rest of the world looks on in part disbelief part amusement that the self proclaimed "Greatest country in the world" can't / won't solve the issue. Meanwhile years go by, more and more dead and.... nothing. NOBODY in this day and age needs anything other than a single shotgun or whatever for hunting or home protection if you live in the middle of nowhere. If you live in a city in the US, then you don't need one for any reason, just like you don't in any other civilised country in the world. If you feel you do, then you have a serious issue with your policing and society. You wanna shoot and own guns for fun, fine no issue- go to a licensed range. Keep them locked up. But you don't need 10 and you don't need automatic rifles.

Drugs, poverty all play a part but you won't get anywhere unless you change the law. There is no other answer - if there was others would have found it. You would have found it.

So either accept this will happen regularly (in which case do we need a new thread every time?!) or do something.


You ignore the fact that most crime and most gun crime is concentrated in urban areas in the United States. Telling people who live in the areas at greatest risk for crime that they don't need a way to defend themselves is out of touch. Telling the single mom with a restraining order out against her violent boyfriend that she can't own a handgun to protect herself and her children is out of touch. Disarm the criminals first and then we can start talking about gun control.


And yet I’ve lived in downtown urban areas for the past 25 years and I’ve met one person who actually and none who have ever been victimized by one.
 
pune
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 2:46 pm

c933103 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
TriJets wrote:

Gang shootings aren't typically included because they often involve other gang members being shot and are easy to avoid if you aren't involved in a gang. Additionally, when people picture a "mass shooting", they typically picture something like what happened in Buffalo rather than two gangs shooting each other at 3am outside an illegal nightclub.

The fact of the matter is that guns are here to stay and criminals are already well armed. When seconds count the police are minutes (or hours) away so normal people want to be able to protect themselves and their families.


These views synergize perfectly with 'all lives matter' and 'pro-life' viewpoints.

The fact of the matter is that more guns make America a more dangerous place with needless loss of life, and though we are sad about it, we implicitly accept that people like you don't want to do anything about it, and this is why there are so many awful attempts to justify it, deflect from it and not debate it. At the end of the day though, your people are dying by the thousands every year, not ours. If you really care about people's lives and wellbeing, then doing nothing about the huge losses of life every year seems incredibly out of touch to me.

The problem is what is the cause of these losses of life.
Like in this case, is removing the gun from the element going to solve the issue? I don't think so, given there are tons of cases in China where gasoline, knife, trucks, and chemicals, are being used independently or in combination, in order to carry out an attack against a group of unspecific people, to express their hatred against things they don't like in the society, ranging from corrupt police to personal relationship affairs.
Given the level of preparedness in this specific attack, I doubt the attacker changing their weapon from a gun to something else would result in less fatality or injury to victims.


I would say false equivalence. I would invite you to share China's crime stats. versus the U.S. and mind you, they are a billion-plus population versus the 350-400 million population of the States. You don't need all of those above, you can make an IED or use an axe to hack people to death. But of course, in both, you would need a lot of skills while with a gun any idiot who just knows how to press the trigger can do it. Why do people need more than 6 bullets to stop a home invasion or whatever? Even the Glock pistols have more than that as far as ammunition is concerned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock

And violence such as above sadly only begets violence :(
 
johns624
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 2:57 pm

India's murder rate isn't especially low, considering the lack of firearms.
 
Redd
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 2:58 pm

JJJ wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
TriJets wrote:
I agree that these rampages are a problem here but with 400 million guns and 350 million people there's really not much to be done about it.

400 million guns for 350 million people - and really not much can be done about it?

Right.


As the evergreen Onion article puts it:

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens.

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1526219331503284224


There's an app for Rio called Fogo Cruzado, it tracks all the live shootings happening at the current time so you can avoid them on your way to work. So, not the only nation where this regularity happens, there are some places that are even worse.

Image
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 3:14 pm

johns624 wrote:
India's murder rate isn't especially low, considering the lack of firearms.


Redd wrote:

There's an app for Rio called Fogo Cruzado, it tracks all the live shootings happening at the current time so you can avoid them on your way to work. So, not the only nation where this regularity happens, there are some places that are even worse.


'Well it happens to other places' is a pretty meagre defence, in fact it's not even a defence, just deflection from the topic at hand. The USA might not be the absolute worst, but it's bad, and no amount of 'well what about them' changes that. Seems like for some Americans, the many thousands of lives ended and the further thousands devastated by loss of loved ones or injuries are an acceptable price, which is sad to think, but the reality. 'Pro life' indeed.
 
TriJets
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 3:27 pm

scbriml wrote:
TriJets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Absolutely - they must be disarmed, but in order to do that, you need to legalize/regulate urban drug networks and dismantle transnational gun smuggling within and into/out of the US. That would require steps at the federal level conservatives are unlikely to ever support and many states will cry 10th amendment foul over. On the left the ACLU would probably oppose criminal gun seizures too.


And even if those measures were taken, it would still take generations for the effects to be truly felt. Unfortunately, I just don't see anyone having the political appetite for it. Politicians want instant gratification because they are up for reelection in a year or two, not twenty.


Just because a destination is difficult to get to, doesn't mean it isn't worth starting on the journey.

I've yet to hear any of the pro-gun posters here provide a cogent argument why gun ownership shouldn't be registered/licenced, trained, tested and insured (just like everyone is for driving a car).


The big problem with that is that since gun ownership is a constitutional right in this country, imposing financial or other undue hurdles on that right is likely unlawful. Same reason that they got rid of poll taxes and literacy tests to vote.
 
TriJets
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 3:28 pm

SL1200MK2 wrote:
TriJets wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
Thoughts and prayers... bla bla...

Right says you have laws enforce them. No changes whatsoever over my dead body to an AMENDMENT to the constitution. I have a right to keep any kind of weapon, stuff you.

Moderates / left say - well the laws don't work so they need changing. You won't spend extra money on mental health, you won't put in place more stringent background checks, you won't limit ammo clip sizes or reduce what guns people can own, where or what they can buy.

Rest of the world looks on in part disbelief part amusement that the self proclaimed "Greatest country in the world" can't / won't solve the issue. Meanwhile years go by, more and more dead and.... nothing. NOBODY in this day and age needs anything other than a single shotgun or whatever for hunting or home protection if you live in the middle of nowhere. If you live in a city in the US, then you don't need one for any reason, just like you don't in any other civilised country in the world. If you feel you do, then you have a serious issue with your policing and society. You wanna shoot and own guns for fun, fine no issue- go to a licensed range. Keep them locked up. But you don't need 10 and you don't need automatic rifles.

Drugs, poverty all play a part but you won't get anywhere unless you change the law. There is no other answer - if there was others would have found it. You would have found it.

So either accept this will happen regularly (in which case do we need a new thread every time?!) or do something.


You ignore the fact that most crime and most gun crime is concentrated in urban areas in the United States. Telling people who live in the areas at greatest risk for crime that they don't need a way to defend themselves is out of touch. Telling the single mom with a restraining order out against her violent boyfriend that she can't own a handgun to protect herself and her children is out of touch. Disarm the criminals first and then we can start talking about gun control.


And yet I’ve lived in downtown urban areas for the past 25 years and I’ve met one person who actually and none who have ever been victimized by one.


I'm happy for you.
 
JJJ
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 3:35 pm

Redd wrote:
JJJ wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
400 million guns for 350 million people - and really not much can be done about it?

Right.


As the evergreen Onion article puts it:

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens.

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1526219331503284224


There's an app for Rio called Fogo Cruzado, it tracks all the live shootings happening at the current time so you can avoid them on your way to work. So, not the only nation where this regularity happens, there are some places that are even worse.

Image


Brazil doesn't have mass shootings in the US sense.

They have a huge common criminality and gang problem but not the random guy shooting up a school/workplace/church/whatever.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 17921
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 4:16 pm

JJJ wrote:
Redd wrote:
JJJ wrote:

As the evergreen Onion article puts it:

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens.

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1526219331503284224


There's an app for Rio called Fogo Cruzado, it tracks all the live shootings happening at the current time so you can avoid them on your way to work. So, not the only nation where this regularity happens, there are some places that are even worse.

Image


Brazil doesn't have mass shootings in the US sense.

They have a huge common criminality and gang problem but not the random guy shooting up a school/workplace/church/whatever.


Endemic criminality / urban gang problems seem to be extraordinarily common in countries with a large wealth gap - the leaders are South Africa, Brazil, Nigeria, USA, Mexico etc. Maybe it's all entirely psychological - people become nihilistic at an early age when they realize they will never attain high status.
 
pune
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 5:23 pm

johns624 wrote:
India's murder rate isn't especially low, considering the lack of firearms.


True, but murder is far different from mass shootings. Murders have gone up, but many of them are political in nature. The current political party in the center is against Muslims. So you see the violence done on them and then sometimes retaliation.

Comparing murders to mass shootings is comparing apples to oranges. There is another thing to note, more than 50% of the population is below the poverty line. Unemployment is the biggest issue.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 589107.cms

There is also this -

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 264737.cms

Only after comparing all this, can you compare any sort of crime between the two countries.
 
johns624
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 7:45 pm

pune wrote:
Comparing murders to mass shootings is comparing apples to oranges.
No. A dead person is a dead person. Whether it's political or crime related, it's a dead person. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
 
pune
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 9:56 pm

johns624 wrote:
pune wrote:
Comparing murders to mass shootings is comparing apples to oranges.
No. A dead person is a dead person. Whether it's political or crime-related, it's a dead person. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


Is India a developed economy? First answer this question and then we can compare. How does the U.S. compare to other developed economies? You are comparing to a country whose PPP can nowhere be compared to the U.S.

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-in ... conomy/GDP

If people do not want to engage in what issues plague their own country then of course, the strategy is to deflect to others. Especially those countries that cannot match to the U.S. even remotely economically in any way or form.
 
pune
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 10:03 pm

johns624 wrote:
pune wrote:
Comparing murders to mass shootings is comparing apples to oranges.
No. A dead person is a dead person. Whether it's political or crime related, it's a dead person. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


Even in crime rate, India is far lower than the U.S.

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-in ... ates/Crime

Of course, if you still wanna continue with your narrative, you are welcome to it and this is after India is three time the population of the U.S. having perhaps less than half the land size of the U.S.
 
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c933103
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 10:59 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Problem is what is the cause of these losses of life.
Like in this case, is removing gun from the element going to solve the issue? I don't think so, given there are tons of cases in China where gasoline, knife, trucks, chemicals, are being used independently or in combination, in order to carry out attack against a group of unspecific people, to express their hatred against things they don't like in the society, ranging from corrupt police to personal relationship affairs.
Given the level of preparedness in this specific attack, I doubt the attacker changing their weapon from gun to something else would result in less fatality or injury of victims.


In the USA those options are all still available, but guns are the most efficient way to mass murder people (for the average citizen). Trucks are definitely very hazardous and lethal, but it's telling that there are so many mass shootings in the US with guns. Knives are a lot harder to carry out mass killings with, you just need 2-3 people to apprehend the killer, but gunmen can get through quite a few before being stopped or killing themselves.

Given that every other developed country has significantly lower deaths in all ways related to guns, I don't think it's an unfair or unjustified assessment that the guns play a huge role.

Could be true in other cases but not this specific case where the attacker is a Las Vegas security guard which is an occupation supposed to have knowledge and access on different weapons, while the causality is 1, who reportedly stopped more people from being killed by hugging the attacker from behind.

pune wrote:
I would say false equivalence. I would invite you to share China's crime stats. versus the U.S. and mind you, they are a billion-plus population versus the 350-400 million population of the States.

Good luck getting your case filed and counted toward official crime stat in China.
 
pune
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 11:24 pm

I just shared crime stats of India in another thread viz-a-vis the U.S. even though we have thrice the population of the U.S. in less than half the area compared to the U.S.

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-in ... ates/Crime
 
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Aaron747
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 11:36 pm

pune wrote:
I just shared crime stats of India in another thread viz-a-vis the U.S. even though we have thrice the population of the U.S. in less than half the area compared to the U.S.

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-in ... ates/Crime


Ooookay but crime stats for India are not really relevant to the crime situation in the US, no? This thread is about a violent incident in the US.
 
Newark727
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 11:39 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Ooookay but crime stats for India are not really relevant to the crime situation in the US, no? This thread is about a violent incident in the US.


They are, but only if you're concern trolling.
 
pune
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 11:44 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
pune wrote:
I just shared crime stats of India in another thread viz-a-vis the U.S. even though we have thrice the population of the U.S. in less than half the area compared to the U.S.

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-in ... ates/Crime


Ooookay but crime stats for India are not really relevant to the crime situation in the US, no? This thread is about a violent incident in the US.


This is on the response of viewtopic.php?p=23307347#p23306547 hence I had to share the relevant facts and figures. Even education-wise India is far lower down the order.

But if people wanna deflect from topics, what can I do ?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Tue May 17, 2022 11:49 pm

pune wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
pune wrote:
I just shared crime stats of India in another thread viz-a-vis the U.S. even though we have thrice the population of the U.S. in less than half the area compared to the U.S.

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-in ... ates/Crime


Ooookay but crime stats for India are not really relevant to the crime situation in the US, no? This thread is about a violent incident in the US.


This is on the response of viewtopic.php?p=23307347#p23306547 hence I had to share the relevant facts and figures. Even education-wise India is far lower down the order.

But if people wanna deflect from topics, what can I do ?


Ah I see...sorry did not see how the previous thread page unfolded.
 
ACDC8
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Wed May 18, 2022 5:39 am

TriJets wrote:
The Constitution isn't a "stupid piece of paper"....it defines and protects our rights, and keeps us from becoming North Korea. You don't have to like it, but frankly I don't care if you don't. It is not going anywhere.

I was referring to the 2nd Amendment in particular. The Constitution is a foundation, something to be built on which is incredibly important as society and the world changes around us. Society's change and evolve, foundational constitutions have to adapt as society requires it to.

And no, gun control and restrictions won't turn you into "North Korea".
 
N1120A
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Wed May 18, 2022 1:28 pm

TriJets wrote:
I thought California had strict gun laws?


And California has the 7th lowest gun death rate, despite being the most populous state by a factor of a third.

Data > Feelings.
 
TriJets
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Thu May 19, 2022 6:41 pm

N1120A wrote:
TriJets wrote:
I thought California had strict gun laws?


And California has the 7th lowest gun death rate, despite being the most populous state by a factor of a third.

Data > Feelings.


Population is irrelevant if you are using per capita statistics.
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Thu May 19, 2022 7:20 pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again: there's one demographic that commits an extraordinary amount of gun crime in the US than any other demographic.

Unfortunately, the same ones who complain about gun violence will call you a bigot and racist for trying to discuss it.

Find a way to fix the violence from that demographic and the "mass shootings" and gun violence in the US drops substantially.
 
Newark727
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Thu May 19, 2022 7:45 pm

SoCalPilot wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: there's one demographic that commits an extraordinary amount of gun crime in the US than any other demographic.

Unfortunately, the same ones who complain about gun violence will call you a bigot and racist for trying to discuss it.

Find a way to fix the violence from that demographic and the "mass shootings" and gun violence in the US drops substantially.


Given the topic of this thread I assume you mean Asians?
 
SoCalPilot
Posts: 223
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Thu May 19, 2022 10:48 pm

Newark727 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: there's one demographic that commits an extraordinary amount of gun crime in the US than any other demographic.

Unfortunately, the same ones who complain about gun violence will call you a bigot and racist for trying to discuss it.

Find a way to fix the violence from that demographic and the "mass shootings" and gun violence in the US drops substantially.


Given the topic of this thread I assume you mean Asians?

You and I must be reading separate threads...sure the original post was about an Asian shooter, but it has since become a discussion about gun violence in America.

So instead of smart ass remarks, why don't you address why 13% of the population contributes to a majority of the gun violence in this country? You're proving my point.

Do you REALLY want to lower gun violence, or do you just want to use it to further your political agenda? If you truly want lower it then you'd address one of the biggest causes of it.
 
Newark727
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Thu May 19, 2022 10:58 pm

Gee I'm glad this definitely not bigoted person sees a father and husband get murdered in cold blood like dozens of others, and storms into the thread to let us know that the real gun criminals aren't the white guy who killed ten black people, or the Asian guy who killed a Taiwanese guy, but... some other group.
SoCalPilot wrote:
Do you REALLY want to lower gun violence, or do you just want to use it to further your political agenda? If you truly want lower it then you'd address one of the biggest causes of it.


Please tell me how you intend to "address" this unspecified minority group (and don't flatter yourself. If I said that a minority I won't name controls the banking system and rules the world in secret while rubbing their hands maliciously, the fact that I didn't actually say anybody's name isn't going to save me from accusations of bigotry - nor should it.)
 
TriJets
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Thu May 19, 2022 11:19 pm

Newark727 wrote:

Please tell me how you intend to "address" this unspecified minority group (and don't flatter yourself. If I said that a minority I won't name controls the banking system and rules the world in secret while rubbing their hands maliciously, the fact that I didn't actually say anybody's name isn't going to save me from accusations of bigotry - nor should it.)


The thing is that your allegation is simply conjecture, while the poster you are quoting's allegation is backed up by actual stats that are published by law enforcement officials each year.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Thu May 19, 2022 11:26 pm

TriJets wrote:
Newark727 wrote:

Please tell me how you intend to "address" this unspecified minority group (and don't flatter yourself. If I said that a minority I won't name controls the banking system and rules the world in secret while rubbing their hands maliciously, the fact that I didn't actually say anybody's name isn't going to save me from accusations of bigotry - nor should it.)


The thing is that your allegation is simply conjecture, while the poster you are quoting's allegation is backed up by actual stats that are published by law enforcement officials each year.


Stats in the absence of context are also irrelevant. The specified minority group does not commit violent crime any more than other groups if they are middle or upper class. So the actual problem is not a specified group, but the living and social conditions in lower income communities - which has basically been unaddressed by any means other than policing since the 1960s.
 
Newark727
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Thu May 19, 2022 11:30 pm

TriJets wrote:
Newark727 wrote:

Please tell me how you intend to "address" this unspecified minority group (and don't flatter yourself. If I said that a minority I won't name controls the banking system and rules the world in secret while rubbing their hands maliciously, the fact that I didn't actually say anybody's name isn't going to save me from accusations of bigotry - nor should it.)


The thing is that your allegation is simply conjecture, while the poster you are quoting's allegation is backed up by actual stats that are published by law enforcement officials each year.


I mean, not like he bothered citing any...

But if you'd like to ride to the rescue of the guy who apparently keeps "trying to discuss" things that get him called a bigot and a racist, for some unidentifiable reason, then I suppose I shouldn't stop you. Like, the fact that he just led with that has me asking Some Questions.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 20864
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Thu May 19, 2022 11:39 pm

TriJets wrote:
The big problem with that is that since gun ownership is a constitutional right in this country, imposing financial or other undue hurdles on that right is likely unlawful. Same reason that they got rid of poll taxes and literacy tests to vote.


It is a constitutional right, but I believe the USSC has ruled that constitutional rights are not without limits. There are already infringements to gun ownership, most people tend to forget or ignore them for the sake of convenience.
 
N1120A
Posts: 27289
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Fri May 20, 2022 6:46 am

TriJets wrote:
N1120A wrote:
TriJets wrote:
I thought California had strict gun laws?


And California has the 7th lowest gun death rate, despite being the most populous state by a factor of a third.

Data > Feelings.


Population is irrelevant if you are using per capita statistics.


Except that population density is historically a factor in crime in all societies.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: One dead 5 wounded in Laguna Woods CA church shooting

Fri May 20, 2022 4:36 pm

SoCalPilot wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: there's one demographic that commits an extraordinary amount of gun crime in the US than any other demographic.

Unfortunately, the same ones who complain about gun violence will call you a bigot and racist for trying to discuss it.

Find a way to fix the violence from that demographic and the "mass shootings" and gun violence in the US drops substantially.


Given the topic of this thread I assume you mean Asians?

You and I must be reading separate threads...sure the original post was about an Asian shooter, but it has since become a discussion about gun violence in America.

So instead of smart ass remarks, why don't you address why 13% of the population contributes to a majority of the gun violence in this country? You're proving my point.

Do you REALLY want to lower gun violence, or do you just want to use it to further your political agenda? If you truly want lower it then you'd address one of the biggest causes of it.

Guns?

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