As of right now, it's reported that 2 children are dead, 13 injured. This took place west of San Antonio in a town called Uvalde.
https://www.kens5.com/video/news/live_b ... 31b8c0edab

Now the death toll is up to 14, according to Governor Abbott.

B717fan wrote:

Now the death toll is up to 14, according to Governor Abbott.

News saying 15 dead, 14 children and 1 teacher.

Shooter is also dead and is from the area. Salvador Ramos is his name and he's either a current or former student at Uvalde HS.

Just another day of craziness in USA...and of course again nothing will change.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/24/us/uvald ... index.html

Robb Elementary teaches 2nd through 4th grades and had 535 students in the 2020-21 school year, according to state data. Thursday was set to be the last day of school for the year.

My Condolences to the families of those killed by people that have easy access to guns, misinformation, and propaganda.

Absolutely terrible.

Nothing to see here, just our daily mass shooting. Please move on and hope that you're not among tomorrow's victims.

Thoughts and prayers.

More innocent slain, more endless arguments about why action can’t be taken to stop it happening again to come.

Thoughts and prayers until the next time.

We seriously need to legalize conceal carry for ages 6 and up!!! Might as well add in abortions in there too.

Condolences to the parents having to bury their children, there are no words.

RIP to the parents of these innocent children. This is truly sad and a parent's worst nightmare.

Reports are coming that the suspect was running away from police after killing someone. The chase ended around the school and the suspect entered the school and started shooting. Tragedy.

Greg Abbot, signing into law Constitutional carry
Texans who legally own a gun are now allowed to carry it in public. No license or training is needed.

https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/statu ... 8541584393

RIP to the kids, the friends, and families from this horrible nightmare.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

RIP to the parents of these innocent children. This is truly sad and a parent's worst nightmare.

Reports are coming that the suspect was running away from police after killing someone. The chase ended around the school and the suspect entered the school and started shooting. Tragedy.

Reports are that he shot and killed his grandmother before going to the school.

I'd love to say I'm shocked but I've become so desensitized from mass shootings as appalling as that sounds. Utterly tragic and disgusting. As others have said, "thoughts and prayers" is all the gun nuts will offer.

Evergreen, for the prolife crowd from George Carlin:

"If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're f#cked.”

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1 ... 92967?s=20

RIP to those whose lives have been taken so young, and my thoughts and well wishes to family of not only those who lost there lives but those who while have to live with this terrible tragedy for the rest of there lives

Terrible news I just cannot understand the mentality of doing such a deranged act, its cases like this I'm all for the death penalty

Ban the gun. It's the only solution, just like in other Western nations.

The freedom from being shot is a more fundamental freedom than the freedom to own a gun.

yyz717 wrote:

Ban the gun. It's the only solution, just like in other Western nations.

The freedom from being shot is a more fundamental freedom than the freedom to own a gun.

Seriously, how does one do that? They will just be replaced with illegal imported guns. Can't stop drugs from coming into the country, you expect to stop guns? I guess it would give the dealer on the street corner another product to sell.

We all desensitized to violence.

https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/tv-affects-child.html

"The average American child will see 200,000 violent acts on television by age 18. Many violent acts are done by the "good guys," whom kids are taught to admire. In fact, often the hero wins by fighting with or killing the “bad guys."

yyz717 wrote:

Ban the gun. It's the only solution, just like in other Western nations.

The freedom from being shot is a more fundamental freedom than the freedom to own a gun.

Mind you, it's primarily a US issue, that realistically the US has no will to address.

Gun ownership rates north of the border aren't so much lower, but there's far less of the senseless mass murder (and other senseless murder)

I wonder what Alex Jones will say about this one. I suspect he'll be awfully silent.

Christ... this is almost like a Sandy Hook repeat. I expect the outcome to also be the same.

Vintage wrote:

Kent350787 wrote:

Gun ownership rates north of the border aren't so much lower,

Gun ownership rates in Canada are a lot lower than in the US.
Canada: 31 firearms per 100 residents
US: 89 firearms per 100 residents.

And the types of guns differ greatly. In Canada they actually do go hunting (for animals).

I hadn't realised that US rate had been climbing so much.

But I don't know why I care. As a whole the USA doesn't care enough about mass murder of kids to do anything about it.

Gun rights are clearly more important than the right of people not to be killed by those guns.

Death toll is now up to 18 children, 3 adults.

A101 wrote:

Terrible news I just cannot understand the mentality of doing such a deranged act, its cases like this I'm all for the death penalty

The gunman is apparently already dead.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state ... lty-states
Since 1976 Texas has executed nearly five times as many prisoners as the next highest state. Clearly, it's of no deterrence whatsoever.

Now 18 kids and three adults dead.

Thoughts and prayers.

Well, them kids died because of our God given 2nd amendment rights. But hey, freedom isn't free. God Bless 'Murica, the greatest freest country in the world. I would gladly take dozens of these sacrifices every year rather than live under the tyrannical gun laws of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Western Europe. (sarcasm).

victrola wrote:

Well, them kids died because of our God given 2nd amendment rights. But hey, freedom isn't free. God Bless 'Murica, the greatest freest country in the world. I would gladly take dozens of these sacrifices every year rather than live under the tyrannical gun laws of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Western Europe. (sarcasm).

That godawful tyranny where my country (Australia) has seen - checks notes - exactly zero school shootings. Ever.

There was one at a University 20 years ago this coming October. There have been two random shootings in the last 10 years which meeting the mass shooting definition, plus sevrral others where the perpetrator murdered family.

victrola wrote:

Well, them kids died because of our God given 2nd amendment rights. But hey, freedom isn't free. God Bless 'Murica, the greatest freest country in the world. I would gladly take dozens of these sacrifices every year rather than live under the tyrannical gun laws of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Western Europe. (sarcasm).

So you mean ban guns right? Because the Cartels would not fill in the gap with illegal guns?

https://vlaamsvredesinstituut.eu/wp-con ... _in_eu.pdf

Europe have their own problems.

william wrote:

Seriously, how does one do that? They will just be replaced with illegal imported guns. Can't stop drugs from coming into the country, you expect to stop guns? I guess it would give the dealer on the street corner another product to sell.

Restricting guns will mean demand outstripping supplies. Prices will go up to a point where only the most organized of criminals can afford guns - and these guys don't go around committing petty crimes.

There were talk of ballistic blankets...for the kids...

I can't even.

scbriml wrote:

A101 wrote:

Terrible news I just cannot understand the mentality of doing such a deranged act, its cases like this I'm all for the death penalty

The gunman is apparently already dead.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state ... lty-states
Since 1976 Texas has executed nearly five times as many prisoners as the next highest state. Clearly, it's of no deterrence whatsoever.

The after effects is never a factor of those who commit such heinous crimes, but it certainly fits the nature and penalty for committing such a crime

william wrote:

victrola wrote:

Well, them kids died because of our God given 2nd amendment rights. But hey, freedom isn't free. God Bless 'Murica, the greatest freest country in the world. I would gladly take dozens of these sacrifices every year rather than live under the tyrannical gun laws of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Western Europe. (sarcasm).

So you mean ban guns right? Because the Cartels would not fill in the gap with illegal guns?

https://vlaamsvredesinstituut.eu/wp-con ... _in_eu.pdf

Europe have their own problems.

Gun violence needs to addressed averywhere it occurs. But the US gun homicide rate is over 22 times higher than even the highest rate in most countries in the EU. A couple have rates only 20% of htose in the US, while Estonia is an outlier with a rate around 35% that of the US.

Whataboutism doesn't win this argument.

Kent350787 wrote:

victrola wrote:

Well, them kids died because of our God given 2nd amendment rights. But hey, freedom isn't free. God Bless 'Murica, the greatest freest country in the world. I would gladly take dozens of these sacrifices every year rather than live under the tyrannical gun laws of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Western Europe. (sarcasm).

That godawful tyranny where my country (Australia) has seen - checks notes - exactly zero school shootings. Ever.

There was one at a University 20 years ago this coming October. There have been two random shootings in the last 10 years which meeting the mass shooting definition, plus sevrral others where the perpetrator murdered family.

Yes the aftermath of Port Arthur massacre has well and truly had an effect on that

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

william wrote:

Seriously, how does one do that? They will just be replaced with illegal imported guns. Can't stop drugs from coming into the country, you expect to stop guns? I guess it would give the dealer on the street corner another product to sell.

Restricting guns will mean demand outstripping supplies. Prices will go up to a point where only the most organized of criminals can afford guns - and these guys don't go around committing petty crimes.

You are correct except the last part. Illegal guns will not be expensive. Market forces work in the crime world too. The same reason people in California are still buy marijuana from the guy on the street instead of going to a Dispensary, its cheaper.

A101 wrote:

Kent350787 wrote:

victrola wrote:

Well, them kids died because of our God given 2nd amendment rights. But hey, freedom isn't free. God Bless 'Murica, the greatest freest country in the world. I would gladly take dozens of these sacrifices every year rather than live under the tyrannical gun laws of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Western Europe. (sarcasm).

That godawful tyranny where my country (Australia) has seen - checks notes - exactly zero school shootings. Ever.

There was one at a University 20 years ago this coming October. There have been two random shootings in the last 10 years which meeting the mass shooting definition, plus sevrral others where the perpetrator murdered family.

Yes the aftermath of Port Arthur massacre has well and truly had an effect on that

Kudos for Howard in pushing changes to gun laws and initiaiing the buyback. There had been a noticable increase in shootings (fomr a low base) in the 1980s and 1990s.

But Australia was and is a very, very, very different country than the US to start with.

william wrote:

Market forces work in the crime world too.

They do. And that could be turned to our advantage, if the will was there. It's extraordinarily rare to see any crimes committed with fully automatic weapons these days - because if you want one, either you have to tool around with the metal bits and make one yourself, or pay literally tens of thousands of dollars. We constrained the supply, and it made them too expensive to do crimes with. Make a semi-auto handgun cost twice as much. How many fewer robbers are going to want to bring one?

God bless the 2nd Amendment

Seriously knock it off, leave the flamebait and personal attacks out of the discussion along with any trolling and off topic comments. 70 posts have just been removed so take this as fair warning that the thread will be locked if rules are not followed

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

william wrote:

Seriously, how does one do that? They will just be replaced with illegal imported guns. Can't stop drugs from coming into the country, you expect to stop guns? I guess it would give the dealer on the street corner another product to sell.

Restricting guns will mean demand outstripping supplies. Prices will go up to a point where only the most organized of criminals can afford guns - and these guys don't go around committing petty crimes.

No they won't, not when you'll be able to 3D print a gun easily in just a few years. Laws keep honest people honest, crimals don't give a shit.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

No they won't, not when you'll be able to 3D print a gun easily in just a few years. Laws keep honest people honest, crimals don't give a shit.

Granted by itself it may not have an effect. But if accompanied by legislation that exacts severe punishment for illegal supply & ownership of guns, it will definitely happen.

Other countries do this too, and you don't see them having gun crimes rivalling the US now do they?

yyz717 wrote:

The freedom from being shot is a more fundamental freedom than the freedom to own a gun.

I like your observation. May those denied that freedom rest in peace. Another sad day.

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

DiamondFlyer wrote:

Restricting guns will mean demand outstripping supplies. Prices will go up to a point where only the most organized of criminals can afford guns - and these guys don't go around committing petty crimes.

No they won't, not when you'll be able to 3D print a gun easily in just a few years. Laws keep honest people honest, crimals don't give a shit.

Granted by itself it may not have an effect. But if accompanied by legislation that exacts severe punishment for illegal supply & ownership of guns, it will definitely happen.

Other countries do this too, and you don't see them having gun crimes rivalling the US now do they?[/quote]

So, what do you want? A door to door confiscation program? Because in a big part of the country, the part where a lot of those guns are, the exact people you want to go door to door will tell you to pound sand. A full on banning of firearms is a sure fire way to have a civil war.

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

DiamondFlyer wrote:

Restricting guns will mean demand outstripping supplies. Prices will go up to a point where only the most organized of criminals can afford guns - and these guys don't go around committing petty crimes.

No they won't, not when you'll be able to 3D print a gun easily in just a few years. Laws keep honest people honest, crimals don't give a shit.

Granted by itself it may not have an effect. But if accompanied by legislation that exacts severe punishment for illegal supply & ownership of guns, it will definitely happen.

Other countries do this too, and you don't see them having gun crimes rivalling the US now do they?[/quote]

In my city (Sydney Australia) there has a been a recent spate of tit for tat murders between two crime families. Like maybe four murders this year. You'd expect these would be using illegal guns.

But most guns are registered. In an interesting coincidence, I was just reading a person asking what to do as he'd forgotten to renew his firearms license. The recommendation was to contact the registry, but in the meantime to hand his guns into police while he seeks reregistration. The police can legally enter his home and seize his currently illegal firearms.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

So, what do you want? A door to door confiscation program? Because in a big part of the country, the part where a lot of those guns are, the exact people you want to go door to door will tell you to pound sand. A full on banning of firearms is a sure fire way to have a civil war.

Excuses. Do what Australia did in the aftermath of the Port Arthur massacre, and you can easily meet both demands for reduction in guns as well as gun ownership.

The pushback against gun laws in the US has nothing to do with the Constitution (which isn't sacrosanct, otherwise there wouldn't have been amendments). It's everything to do with commerce, the wellbeing of weaponmakers.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

So, what do you want? A door to door confiscation program? Because in a big part of the country, the part where a lot of those guns are, the exact people you want to go door to door will tell you to pound sand. A full on banning of firearms is a sure fire way to have a civil war.

And this is the whole problem, the entire US culture revolves around an archaic amendment that for some messed up reason people place more value on than innocent lives under the delusion that its some God given right to own a device that has one purpose and one purpose only.

Until people finally realize that times have changed and the culture revolving around gun ownership needs to change, hundreds if of innocent people will continue to die every year. But yeah, lets just keep using the "but criminals" excuse and until then, Merry Christmas from 'Murica:



I mean seriously, there are 18 families that have to put their children to rest now. The rest of the World has figured this out, what does it need to take for the US to connect the dots?

SEAorPWM wrote:

Christ... this is almost like a Sandy Hook repeat. I expect the outcome to also be the same.

Sadly, that's almost certainly true. It'll be in the news for about a week, people will wring their hands, democratic politicians will insist that it's high time for tighter gun control laws and then it will be back to business as usual. If 20 little kids being massacred didn't change things, why would another 18? It's maddening. I would ask when is congress going to stand up to the NRA and actually follow the will of the people, the vast majority of whom want improved gun laws, but I already know the answer is never. And "we the people" keep re-electing these same spineless jellyfish to term after term.

How about making ammunition illegal? Or tax the heck out of bullets to make them unattainable for most people?

I hate to say it but this falls into the "few bad apples spoil the whole bunch" - maybe doing this and punishing EVERYONE will FINALLY get a REAL conversation started about this. So tired of hearing about this esp. with elementary school kids the victims!

DiamondFlyer wrote:

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

william wrote:

Seriously, how does one do that? They will just be replaced with illegal imported guns. Can't stop drugs from coming into the country, you expect to stop guns? I guess it would give the dealer on the street corner another product to sell.

Restricting guns will mean demand outstripping supplies. Prices will go up to a point where only the most organized of criminals can afford guns - and these guys don't go around committing petty crimes.

No they won't, not when you'll be able to 3D print a gun easily in just a few years. Laws keep honest people honest, crimals don't give a shit.

In other ‘developed’ countries these acts are much, much rarer and the overall rates for anything related to guns are much lower. They have criminals too, so why is it that they can manage it, but the USA can’t?