SL1200MK2 wrote:

william wrote:

SL1200MK2 wrote:

So, after the next very violent weekend in Chicago, if we get upset and demand more gun regulation, this call for said gun control will be more valid?

1. This every weekend in Chicago, and 31 is sadly on the low side of usual.
2. I mentioned this to show how Americans have been jaded to gun violence. So no, I do not know expect any new gun laws to come from this horrific tragedy in Texas.

My next question is that with Chicago being number 10 in gun deaths, what’s your hang-up with it. I mean, many of the more violent cities are also full of non-white people so this attempt at deflection would work for other cities. Why Chicago at #10?

Is this like that other members bizarre obsession with NYC?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-ci ... st-murders

To answer you question, I don't have a hang up with CHI, it was used an example. Should I use Baltimore? Atlanta, New Orleans, pick you city. The fact remains the US is jaded as a country to gun violence. Not expecting much action or laws due to this tragic event in Uvalde due to the country being jaded. You see what i did there? Context.

But if you want to pick and parcel phrases, "non-white"? You can say Black, it how I refer to myself. Its not offensive.

MrHMSH wrote:

TriJets wrote:

MrHMSH wrote:

Still wouldn’t stop people who weren’t criminals becoming one if they shoot someone. A lot of shooting will be from people who have no criminal record and maybe not even any red flags, and then for any reason they become a killer.

Agreed, but there's no real way to prevent that. If you are of age, of sound mind, and not a criminal, you have a legal right to own a firearm and that is not going to change. So, best to focus on the things that we can do something about.

No real way to prevent that, however plentiful means to reduce it drastically, something accomplished by every other developed country.

Many of us have suggested what could be done to tackle preventable shootings and reduce overall death and injury rates, but as they often involve compromise and universal access to services without personal expense, they will not be implemented. Not enough Americans will countenance them.

There’s only so much outrage we can spare. It’s your nation’s children dying by the dozens, if that doesn’t change anyone’s mind then nothing will. Your penance to bear.

Read my previous posts, sadly this country has gotten used to this.

petertenthije wrote:

Would it be legally possible to legislate bullets?

Jack up the price to, say, 1000$ each.
Only sell bullets at government controlled stores. Make them part of police stations or military barracks or some other place that knows how to safely handle them and how to vet people.

To keep the sport side of guns active, bullets can still be sold at licensed gun ranges. Bullets there would be sold cheaply, but those bullets are not allowed to leave the range. Mark their bullets to make sure they don’t. If a bullet from range XYZ is found outside the range, close the range and prosecute the owner of the range as well as the guy that carries/shot the bullet outside the range.

This is happening now. The price of ammunition has risen, so has the cost of guns, legal ones.

M564038 wrote:

And most don’t. But bullying, in this case combined with a broken home and the lack of social security in the US, can be extremely dangerous. It is dehumanizing. If you aren’t treated as a human being, how can you be expected to treat others as human beings. How would you even know how that works? It’s a very high risk gamble for society to allow children to be treated that way! Not only for their hurt, but for everyone’s potential hurt.

Throw guns in there as well! Great stuff!
America!

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

cpd wrote:

I’m angry that so many people died.

But then reading this (use private window):

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-amer ... 5aoil.html

Damn. If that was what really led to all of this and eventually sent him over the edge, damn.

I don’t have any other words.

To be honest, while it's bad that he got bullied, it's no excuse to go on a rampage and kill people who aren't even the ones who bullied him.

Many people faced mental anguish before. I for one was a victim of bullying as a child, but never have I ever thought of shooting people dead.

You both make good points.

I forget who said it but:
“Guns don’t kill people, people who say guns don’t kill people who kill people, with guns”

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

https://www.axios.com/2022/05/25/texas- ... -classroom

All of the fatalities came from one classroom.

It's just another few deaths in the road to more pain. Texas and the GOP in general keep passing laws to ban discussions and needed medical treatments for troubled youth. They pull the funding for counselors and nurses in school. They pull the legal rights of teachers to have necessary discussions with children and intervene in troubling situations. This isn't the first school shooting and it will not be the last until changes are made in the recognition, treatment, and discussions surrounding difficult issues. There also needs to be changes in the access to guns. It is obvious that there is a lack of care for mental and physical health in the current GOP happy states, but the corresponding willful pushing of open access to guns as well creates this pot where mass shootings, suicides, murder suicides and a host of other preventable bad outcomes (drug addiction, abuse, theft, assault occurs.


The GOP doesn't want guns taken away from them until they are cold and dead, and yet they keep creating a world where it is all more likely to happen.

Let's ban the sale of ammunition or at least regulate the sale to make it extremely burdonsome to purchase/obtain and expensive (a nice federal tax for starters) how about allowing the gunmakers to be sued whenever there is a gun death - if Texas can allow a strict abortion law that can be brought about by anyone who suspects a provider performing an abortion surely a law can be enacted to allow the gunmakers to be sued for every gun death.

petertenthije wrote:

Would it be legally possible to legislate bullets?

Jack up the price to, say, 1000$ each.
Only sell bullets at government controlled stores. Make them part of police stations or military barracks or some other place that knows how to safely handle them and how to vet people.

To keep the sport side of guns active, bullets can still be sold at licensed gun ranges. Bullets there would be sold cheaply, but those bullets are not allowed to leave the range. Mark their bullets to make sure they don’t. If a bullet from range XYZ is found outside the range, close the range and prosecute the owner of the range as well as the guy that carries/shot the bullet outside the range.

This is an excellent suggestion

william wrote:

https://www.axios.com/2022/05/25/texas-school-shooting-one-classroom

All of the fatalities came from one classroom.

I couldn't even begin to imagine the horror those kids went through when he started pulling the trigger in that room. Absolutely heartbreaking.

The United States is an absolute joke, with a tragic punchline.

Guess what folks. The NRA has banned guns from their convention this week.
Apparently there are not going to be enough good guys with guns attending this event.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nra-con ... uns-2022-5

https://www.nraam.org/events/2022-event ... hip-forum/

william wrote:

SL1200MK2 wrote:

william wrote:

1. This every weekend in Chicago, and 31 is sadly on the low side of usual.
2. I mentioned this to show how Americans have been jaded to gun violence. So no, I do not know expect any new gun laws to come from this horrific tragedy in Texas.

My next question is that with Chicago being number 10 in gun deaths, what’s your hang-up with it. I mean, many of the more violent cities are also full of non-white people so this attempt at deflection would work for other cities. Why Chicago at #10?

Is this like that other members bizarre obsession with NYC?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-ci ... st-murders

To answer you question, I don't have a hang up with CHI, it was used an example. Should I use Baltimore? Atlanta, New Orleans, pick you city. The fact remains the US is jaded as a country to gun violence. Not expecting much action or laws due to this tragic event in Uvalde due to the country being jaded. You see what i did there? Context.

But if you want to pick and parcel phrases, "non-white"? You can say Black, it how I refer to myself. Its not offensive.

Majority of guns in Chicago gun crimes come from outside the state, particularly one store in Indiana. By the way, free-for-all gun paradise Indiana's gun death rate is 20% higher than IL. As always, the states with the worst gun death rates are all pro life conservative gun worshiping sh!t holes. Probably just a coincidence.

TriJets wrote:

The plural of anecdotes is data.

If you believe that, your education is lacking, and that's not a personal insult, it's simply fact. But I doubt that you believe it. The "The plural of anecdotes is data" is just your slippery debate technique to raise meaningless peripheral issues one after the other, so as to divert the conversation away from anything meaningful to the subject matter. Then with the actual conversation sidetracked, you have "won".

TriJets wrote:

And even if you only accept the 100,000 figure, that is still 5x the number of gun homicides each year.

And? How does this have any relevance to gun policy? This response of yours is a non-response. But you know that.

Here is where our "conversation" stands:
1. The Real Clear Investigations website you used as reference is a junk website.
2. In 2020, there were 45,222 firearm-related deaths in the United States, about 20,000 of these are considered murders.
3. There are approximately 115,000 non-fatal firearm injuries in the U.S. each year.
4. Anecdotal stories are meaningless for anything other than rhetorical purposes in a debate that provides real data to be discussed.
5. There are about 100,000 gun interventions of crime in the US every year.

Now if you think you have any justification for arming American civilians I'd like to hear it.

Newark727 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Guess what folks. The NRA has banned guns from their convention this week.
Apparently there are not going to be enough good guys with guns attending this event.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nra-con ... uns-2022-5

https://www.nraam.org/events/2022-event ... hip-forum/

A gun free zone? Don't they realize how vulnerable they're making themselves?

Think of the carnage! Like Canada! or Australia! The humanity!

Actually conservatives have convinced themselves that Australia is some sort of tyrannical mad maxx lawless murderball so who knows...

There are now 4 threads about 5 different mass shootings on the first page in this forum. All in the same country.

Newark727 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Guess what folks. The NRA has banned guns from their convention this week.
Apparently there are not going to be enough good guys with guns attending this event.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nra-con ... uns-2022-5

https://www.nraam.org/events/2022-event ... hip-forum/

A gun free zone? Don't they realize how vulnerable they're making themselves?

It's alright, the bad guys with the gun won't be allowed in.

Even the NRA themselves aknowledges there is not a single nice guy among them.

casinterest wrote:

Guess what folks. The NRA has banned guns from their convention this week.
Apparently there are not going to be enough good guys with guns attending this event.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nra-con ... uns-2022-5

https://www.nraam.org/events/2022-event ... hip-forum/

casinterest wrote:

Guess what folks. The NRA has banned guns from their convention this week.
Apparently there are not going to be enough good guys with guns attending this event.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nra-con ... uns-2022-5

https://www.nraam.org/events/2022-event ... hip-forum/

It's nothing new, though, and is one of the big joke about NRA anyway.

You mean they don't trust those gun nuts next to them having guns? Aren't they supposed to be "good guy"?

Bostrom wrote:

There are now 4 threads about 5 different mass shootings on the first page in this forum. All in the same country.

And quite frankly if you start counting the random street craziness in basically any big cities in USA you'll have a LOT more thread. But of course nobody gives a f**k about those gangsta killing each other up until some stray bullet kill somebody like what happened in Bronx just last week.

MrHMSH wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

By experience, since I have lived outside the US, others can relate too. In the US you tend to live lonelier and have less social interaction with others. Perhaps one determining factor of so many lone wolf killings might be that too. Less social interaction, less sense of community in many areas.

In Latin America and Europe where I have also lived, you don't have that. But you still have people with mental issues in any case. However, having more people around you, interacting with you helps.

This problem needs to be seen for what it is, if not like I said it will only get worse. Already politicians are dancing in top of the graves of these children asking for more power, and ignoring that guns don't kill people. People do. Yes lets have a sensible discussion of having people with mental issues without guns or weapons that kill, but going after guns will not fix it.

The same way that gang killings isn't solved by tougher gun laws, these issues of random killings won't be solved if we don't go to the root.

Guns don't kill people, people do. In the USA at an alarming rate, in every other developed country at nowhere near the same rate. I'm not suggesting we ignore other issues, but you cannot simply ignore that this problem does not afflict these other countries anywhere near as much, despite having a lot of cultural and societal issues. What's wrong with looking all avenues for reducing the problem? Look at what works for others and adapt them for the USA.

Guns make it far easier to kill a high amount of people in a short period of time and it is a less personal way of ending a life than other means (that civilians have access to). Especially if you can get military grade body armor and police/armed security can't stop you. IIRC this was the case in this shooting and the one in Buffalo.

Not to say that these massacres can't happen without There was a van attack in Toronto in 2018 where 10 people were killed by an incel, there have been knife attacks in Japan that have killed multiple people. There have been massacres that involve arson or explosives also but there are far more rare than guns. Guns make it easy.

StarAC17 wrote:

Not to say that these massacres can't happen without There was a van attack in Toronto in 2018 where 10 people were killed by an incel, there have been knife attacks in Japan that have killed multiple people. There have been massacres that involve arson or explosives also but there are far more rare than guns. Guns make it easy.

Speaking of knife attack in Japan - there was that stabbing back in 2001 where some dude enter a primary school and stabbed a bunch of kids, 8 of them died and 17 of them injured.

Imagine if he did it with a gun...it would have been 25 dead.

StarAC17 wrote:

MrHMSH wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

By experience, since I have lived outside the US, others can relate too. In the US you tend to live lonelier and have less social interaction with others. Perhaps one determining factor of so many lone wolf killings might be that too. Less social interaction, less sense of community in many areas.

In Latin America and Europe where I have also lived, you don't have that. But you still have people with mental issues in any case. However, having more people around you, interacting with you helps.

This problem needs to be seen for what it is, if not like I said it will only get worse. Already politicians are dancing in top of the graves of these children asking for more power, and ignoring that guns don't kill people. People do. Yes lets have a sensible discussion of having people with mental issues without guns or weapons that kill, but going after guns will not fix it.

The same way that gang killings isn't solved by tougher gun laws, these issues of random killings won't be solved if we don't go to the root.

Guns don't kill people, people do. In the USA at an alarming rate, in every other developed country at nowhere near the same rate. I'm not suggesting we ignore other issues, but you cannot simply ignore that this problem does not afflict these other countries anywhere near as much, despite having a lot of cultural and societal issues. What's wrong with looking all avenues for reducing the problem? Look at what works for others and adapt them for the USA.

Guns make it far easier to kill a high amount of people in a short period of time and it is a less personal way of ending a life than other means (that civilians have access to). Especially if you can get military grade body armor and police/armed security can't stop you. IIRC this was the case in this shooting and the one in Buffalo.

Not to say that these massacres can't happen without There was a van attack in Toronto in 2018 where 10 people were killed by an incel, there have been knife attacks in Japan that have killed multiple people. There have been massacres that involve arson or explosives also but there are far more rare than guns. Guns make it easy.

Yes, but after the knife attacks in Japan there was serious societal debate about improving access to mental health services and supporting parents of mentally disabled youth like one of the knife attackers. And a couple attacks every couple years is not statistically significant for a country of 120 million with generally low crime anyway.

Sexual crimes and DV are far more serious issues in Japan than public attacks of any kind.

Texas gunman was bullied as a child, grew increasingly violent, friends say

Salvador Rolando Ramos suffered from a fraught home life and lashed out violently against peers and strangers recently and over the years, friends and relatives said.

https://www.startribune.com/texas-gunma ... 600176290/

Is there a detailed published timeline yet of the horrific events from yesterday, that begins before: "shooter is in the school" ??

Bty, how does a 17 year old, in the so-called impoverished area of Uvalde, who just turned 18, get $1800 to buy a gun??

ACDC8 wrote:

Speaking of Cruz:

As 14 students and a teacher were shot dead at a Texas elementary school, the Republican senator tried to demonize Democrats, saying they’d be coming after guns.

When a mass shooting happens, Cruz told reporters, “You see politicians try to politicize it,” he said. “You see Democrats and a lot of folks in the media whose immediate solution is to try to restrict the constitutional rights of law-abiding citizens.”

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nation ... story.html

Any sane person in his position would be grieving with the families and promising change so other families will never have to go through this. Seriously, what is wrong with people like this?

Constitutional Rights this, Constitutional Rights that - they're called amendments for a reason - amend it for the Love of God.

Just one more example (as if another was needed) that Ted Cruz is a horse's ass. And people continue to vote for this specimen........

Vintage wrote:

TriJets wrote:

The plural of anecdotes is data.

If you believe that, your education is lacking, and that's not a personal insult, it's simply fact. But I doubt that you believe it. The "The plural of anecdotes is data" is just your slippery debate technique to raise meaningless peripheral issues one after the other, so as to divert the conversation away from anything meaningful to the subject matter. Then with the actual conversation sidetracked, you have "won".

TriJets wrote:

And even if you only accept the 100,000 figure, that is still 5x the number of gun homicides each year.

And? How does this have any relevance to gun policy? This response of yours is a non-response. But you know that.

Here is where our "conversation" stands:
1. The Real Clear Investigations website you used as reference is a junk website.
2. In 2020, there were 45,222 firearm-related deaths in the United States, about 20,000 of these are considered murders.
3. There are approximately 115,000 non-fatal firearm injuries in the U.S. each year.
4. Anecdotal stories are meaningless for anything other than rhetorical purposes in a debate that provides real data to be discussed.
5. There are about 100,000 gun interventions of crime in the US every year.

Now if you think you have any justification for arming American civilians I'd like to hear it.

The reality is that no one knows exactly how many instances of defensive gun use occur each year as the numbers are largely impossible to obtain. The best estimates are well north of the 100,000 figure, though:

The hypothesis that many Americans use guns for self-protection each year has been repeatedly subjected to empirical test, using the only feasible method for doing so, survey of representative samples of the populations. The results of nineteen consecutive surveys unanimously indicate that each year huge numbers of Americans (700,000 or more) use guns for self-protection. Further, the more technically sound the survey, the higher the defensive gun use estimates. The entire body of evidence cannot be rejected based on the speculation that all surveys share biases that, on net, cause an over estimation of defensive gun use frequency because, ignoring fallacious reasoning, there is no empirical evidence to support this novel theory. At this point, it is fair to say that no intellectually serious challenge has been mounted to the case for defensive gun use being very frequent.
National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2005. Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press.

Source: https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/10881/chapter/7

So it stands to reason that there are many, many reasons for Americans to own firearms for self defense. Chief amongst those reasons are the facts that criminals are already well-armed, and that the police are minutes to hours away when they are called which leaves a person vulnerable and having to defend themselves and/or their family until help arrives. Additionally, we've seen a pandemic, supply shortages, riots, and calls to defund the police in recent years which has only furthered the desire of previously unarmed Americans to purchase firearms for the first time-

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news ... g-pandemic

william wrote:

petertenthije wrote:

Would it be legally possible to legislate bullets?

Jack up the price to, say, 1000$ each.
Only sell bullets at government controlled stores. Make them part of police stations or military barracks or some other place that knows how to safely handle them and how to vet people.

To keep the sport side of guns active, bullets can still be sold at licensed gun ranges. Bullets there would be sold cheaply, but those bullets are not allowed to leave the range. Mark their bullets to make sure they don’t. If a bullet from range XYZ is found outside the range, close the range and prosecute the owner of the range as well as the guy that carries/shot the bullet outside the range.

This is happening now. The price of ammunition has risen, so has the cost of guns, legal ones.

Making hobbies expensive has little effect. People just spend less on food and hygiene. Increase the price of petrol and people grumble but most don't buy smaller cars. Serialising each bullet would be pointless as in most mass shootings we know who the shooter was.

Bostrom wrote:

There are now 4 threads about 5 different mass shootings on the first page in this forum. All in the same country.

With 199 mass shootings in 145 days (All in the same country) it's hardly surprising that it's an active topic.

Perhaps a better question is: If sale of contraceptives should be banned as proposed by a certain Republican candidate due to the risk it may cause loss of life post fertilisation, how can it be acceptable to permit the sale of other potentially deadly items such as bullets, kitchen knives and (a Prince Philip reference) cricket bats?

Let me see if we can bring a bit of perspective here on the talk of the US having more mass shootings. Which is true, compared to the rest of the world. Specially developed Europe.

For example, Drug overdoses, which is an epidemic that is also a huge problem of the US but rarely discussed, in the year 2021 100k people died from OD's.

In 2016 for example, in Europe according to this, 9000 people died in the whole of Europe due to Drug OD's.
https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/system/fil ... deaths.pdf

Whereas in the US, it had more than 5 times that same amount, around 60K in 2016

https://nida.nih.gov/drug-topics/trends ... eath-rates


We have huge societal issues going on, and until we don't talk about them this is going to continue.

You may ask, why do I compare to Drug OD's. Well drug trafficking is illegal, and all of those hard drugs heroin, cocaine etc are also illegal in Europe as in the US, despite that, in this country we have 6x more of a problem then Europe.

There is a mental health crisis in this country, which government banning things won't help.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Let me see if we can bring a bit of perspective here on the talk of the US having more mass shootings. Which is true, compared to the rest of the world. Specially developed Europe.

For example, Drug overdoses, which is an epidemic that is also a huge problem of the US but rarely discussed, in the year 2021 100k people died from OD's.

In 2016 for example, in Europe according to this, 9000 people died in the whole of Europe due to Drug OD's.
https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/system/fil ... deaths.pdf

Whereas in the US, it had more than 5 times that same amount, around 60K in 2016

https://nida.nih.gov/drug-topics/trends ... eath-rates


We have huge societal issues going on, and until we don't talk about them this is going to continue.

You may ask, why do I compare to Drug OD's. Well drug trafficking is illegal, and all of those hard drugs heroin, cocaine etc are also illegal in Europe as in the US, despite that, in this country we have 6x more of a problem then Europe.

There is a mental health crisis in this country, which government banning things won't help.

Congrats on finding more stuff pro life conservatives completely ignore. Wasn't crypt keeper Kellyanne in charge of that? What progress did she make? Just gonna go out on a limb here and guess healthcare and a social safety net reduces dependence on drugs, but that's probably too pro life for the pro life crowd.

TriJets wrote:

Vintage wrote:

TriJets wrote:

The plural of anecdotes is data.

If you believe that, your education is lacking, and that's not a personal insult, it's simply fact. But I doubt that you believe it. The "The plural of anecdotes is data" is just your slippery debate technique to raise meaningless peripheral issues one after the other, so as to divert the conversation away from anything meaningful to the subject matter. Then with the actual conversation sidetracked, you have "won".

TriJets wrote:

And even if you only accept the 100,000 figure, that is still 5x the number of gun homicides each year.

And? How does this have any relevance to gun policy? This response of yours is a non-response. But you know that.

Here is where our "conversation" stands:
1. The Real Clear Investigations website you used as reference is a junk website.
2. In 2020, there were 45,222 firearm-related deaths in the United States, about 20,000 of these are considered murders.
3. There are approximately 115,000 non-fatal firearm injuries in the U.S. each year.
4. Anecdotal stories are meaningless for anything other than rhetorical purposes in a debate that provides real data to be discussed.
5. There are about 100,000 gun interventions of crime in the US every year.

Now if you think you have any justification for arming American civilians I'd like to hear it.

The reality is that no one knows exactly how many instances of defensive gun use occur each year as the numbers are largely impossible to obtain. The best estimates are well north of the 100,000 figure, though:

The reality is that it's total hogwash, as vast countries and continents that aren't up to their eyeballs in guns aren't facing a corresponding tidal wave of crimes that would require defensive gun use. If anything you're using examples of guns to defend from...more guns. It's a circular reference that's laughable if it weren't so sad.

That hate doesn't come out of nowhere. Hate where one is ready to die. There is ALWAYS a reason behind that lead to an action like this and almost always the attacker has been bullied, sexually abused, faced violence against him a long time etc. That is also the problem in this thread that people don't understand that no-one becomes attacker likes this overnight because they decide to be like that. Its a long process.

Stop the missuse against children , stop bulling at schools etc. and this kind of attacks will reduce. Easier said than done but the is one answer.

Interesting article on the shooting.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61577777

After driving erratically across town, Ramos eventually crashed his car into a ditch near Robb Elementary School. Some bystanders approached the car to offer assistance.

"People thought that he was in trouble and so they jumped out to help him and he came out of his vehicle and started shooting at them," one person told the Spanish language network Telemundo.

A police officer who works at the school and then two officers from the Uvalde police department all fired at Ramos - but they could not stop him and instead called for back-up, Eric Estrada from the Texas department of public safety told CNN.

Wish that they had gotten him there. But not even the good guys can win with guns.


As for another aside. it is troubling how often Texas occurs on this list.

You might say I am a dreamer, but I’m not the only one because I’m pretty sure stuff like free healthcare, minimum wages, free higher education,mandatory holidays, worker’s rights, parentsl leave and general social secutity and greater equality has been mentioned once or twice by at least one of your political parties.

Those are all things that leads to having less mental health issues in society.
Over-medication stemming from doctors and other medical practitioners having vested interst in over diagnosing for profit, is another factor.

On the other hand, we see increased mental health issues among youth over here as well. Many are quick to blame the pandemic, but my own opinion is that we have seen the signs for a lot longer.
I don’t think history will look favourably upon the Mark Zuckerbergers and «Influencers» of the world. Drugs and sugar X 10.
We have a (couple of) generations feeling left out and struggling to succed in…..Nothing of value at all.

I have always been, and is still «Techno-positive», but we need to get out of this blind alley of human self-destruction that is advertising-driven social media and internet mega-companies.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

There is a mental health crisis in this country, which government banning things won't help.

casinterest wrote:

Interesting article on the shooting.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61577777

After driving erratically across town, Ramos eventually crashed his car into a ditch near Robb Elementary School. Some bystanders approached the car to offer assistance.

"People thought that he was in trouble and so they jumped out to help him and he came out of his vehicle and started shooting at them," one person told the Spanish language network Telemundo.

A police officer who works at the school and then two officers from the Uvalde police department all fired at Ramos - but they could not stop him and instead called for back-up, Eric Estrada from the Texas department of public safety told CNN.

Wish that they had gotten him there. But not even the good guys can win with guns.


As for another aside. it is troubling how often Texas occurs on this list.

A good guy with a gun is never a win it is always a fail. Not having to have a good guy with a gun is a win!

AirWorthy99 wrote:

There is a mental health crisis in this country, which government banning things won't help.

[/quote]
Another absolute nonsense cop out as 1) mental health issues are world wide and 2) conservatives ain't doing jack about mental health either. In fact conservatives are hell bent on making it worse by making life hell for every minority they can find.

MaverickM11 wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

There is a mental health crisis in this country, which government banning things won't help.

Another absolute nonsense cop out as 1) mental health issues are world wide and 2) conservatives ain't doing jack about mental health either. In fact conservatives are hell bent on making it worse by making life hell for every minority they can find.

And it was Reagan who shuts down all those mental health institutions in USA. And now they're talking about mental health? BS!

casinterest wrote:

As for another aside. it is troubling how often Texas occurs on this list.

Side note - all the concealed carry (i.e. "good guys with guns") talk started in that Killeen shooting in 1991 (Not sure why BBC has it in 1999...).

But yeah, 3 police can't take down the shooter, so somehow they're talking about arming teachers and expecting them to actually take down the shooter here. Oh, and the "good guys with guns" in Sutherland Springs? After the shooter massacred 26 people inside the church? That "good guy" (Stephen Willeford) was armed with an AR-15 no less! (This is rural TX...)

zakuivcustom wrote:

Bostrom wrote:

There are now 4 threads about 5 different mass shootings on the first page in this forum. All in the same country.

And quite frankly if you start counting the random street craziness in basically any big cities in USA you'll have a LOT more thread. But of course nobody gives a f**k about those gangsta killing each other up until some stray bullet kill somebody like what happened in Bronx just last week.

As always, The Onion is spot on. https://www.theonion.com

The Onion wrote:

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

zakuivcustom wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

There is a mental health crisis in this country, which government banning things won't help.

Another absolute nonsense cop out as 1) mental health issues are world wide and 2) conservatives ain't doing jack about mental health either. In fact conservatives are hell bent on making it worse by making life hell for every minority they can find.

And it was Reagan who shuts down all those mental health institutions in USA. And now they're talking about mental health? BS!

casinterest wrote:

As for another aside. it is troubling how often Texas occurs on this list.

Side note - all the concealed carry (i.e. "good guys with guns") talk started in that Killeen shooting in 1991 (Not sure why BBC has it in 1999...).

But yeah, 3 police can't take down the shooter, so somehow they're talking about arming teachers and expecting them to actually take down the shooter here. Oh, and the "good guys with guns" in Sutherland Springs? After the shooter massacred 26 people inside the church? That "good guy" (Stephen Willeford) was armed with an AR-15 no less! (This is rural TX...)

They began the program to shut down asylums in the mid to late 1970's. Before Reagan.

Bostrom wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

Bostrom wrote:

There are now 4 threads about 5 different mass shootings on the first page in this forum. All in the same country.

And quite frankly if you start counting the random street craziness in basically any big cities in USA you'll have a LOT more thread. But of course nobody gives a f**k about those gangsta killing each other up until some stray bullet kill somebody like what happened in Bronx just last week.

As always, The Onion is spot on. https://www.theonion.com

The Onion wrote:

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

As always the onion is talking out of it's elbow. 194 out of 195 countries (according to our friend wiki) prevented this. Only the least civilised 0.5% failed to prevent this.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Texas gunman was bullied as a child, grew increasingly violent, friends say

Salvador Rolando Ramos suffered from a fraught home life and lashed out violently against peers and strangers recently and over the years, friends and relatives said.

https://www.startribune.com/texas-gunma ... 600176290/

Is there a detailed published timeline yet of the horrific events from yesterday, that begins before: "shooter is in the school" ??

Bty, how does a 17 year old, in the so-called impoverished area of Uvalde, who just turned 18, get $1800 to buy a gun??

True, I wondered the same too. One report stated $5k worth of guns and ammo.

I can't understand why an 18 year old high school dropout should be able to buy any kind of firearm. In Texas an 18 year old or younger, who is a dropout, is liable to have his or her driver's license revoked. I know lots of responsible firearm owners. Ramos' history doesn't sound at all like any of them.

william wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Texas gunman was bullied as a child, grew increasingly violent, friends say

Salvador Rolando Ramos suffered from a fraught home life and lashed out violently against peers and strangers recently and over the years, friends and relatives said.

https://www.startribune.com/texas-gunma ... 600176290/

Is there a detailed published timeline yet of the horrific events from yesterday, that begins before: "shooter is in the school" ??

Bty, how does a 17 year old, in the so-called impoverished area of Uvalde, who just turned 18, get $1800 to buy a gun??

True, I wondered the same too. One report stated $5k worth of guns and ammo.

I had quite a bit of disposable income when I was a kid working bagging groceries. He probably didn't have a lot of bills to pay if he was living at home, even if that was a broken home.

MaverickM11 wrote:

The reality is that it's total hogwash, as vast countries and continents that aren't up to their eyeballs in guns aren't facing a corresponding tidal wave of crimes that would require defensive gun use. If anything you're using examples of guns to defend from...more guns. It's a circular reference that's laughable if it weren't so sad.

I've had this very conversation multiple times with American colleagues over the year. It always goes the same way, but they really struggle to comprehend it - there's effectively zero chance of any intruder in my home having a gun, simply because he knows damned well that I won't have a gun.

Outside of the home, the chances of me encountering any criminal with a gun in any situation are infinitesimally small in the UK. I accept that if I were a member of some inner-city gang, the chances might be higher, but they're still very low.

TriJets wrote:

The reality is that no one knows exactly how many instances of defensive gun use occur each year as the numbers are largely impossible to obtain. The best estimates are well north of the 100,000 figure, though:

The reality is the DOJ survey indicates that around 100,000 defensive gun uses occur each year. As far as I can see, it's pointless to bicker about the validity of this number.

TriJets wrote:

So it stands to reason that there are many, many reasons for Americans to own firearms for self defense. Chief amongst those reasons are the facts that criminals are already well-armed, and that the police are minutes to hours away when they are called which leaves a person vulnerable and having to defend themselves and/or their family until help arrives. Additionally, we've seen a pandemic, supply shortages, riots, and calls to defund the police in recent years which has only furthered the desire of previously unarmed Americans to purchase firearms for the first time-

Guns aren't very useful for pandemics, supply shortages or riots, so your argument boils down to "criminals are already well-armed" (they aren't) and "police are minutes to hours away" which is hyperbole as an argument anyway, as guns aren't always available either (OMG my gun is in the trunk, back at the house, locked up, unloaded, in this crazy guy's hands).

So we are left with the fact that more guns mean 'more guns'; criminals will have more guns, suicidal people will have more access to guns, children will have access to guns, the mentally ill will have more access to guns, drunks will have more access to guns, and individuals in the throes of anger will have more access to guns. Guns provide permanent solutions for temporary problems.

The frontier days are over, guns are no solution for crime, thinking of overthrowing the government is seditious, and guns are no substitute for manhood. We as a nation and as individuals are better off with as few of them around as possible.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Let me see if we can bring a bit of perspective here on the talk of the US having more mass shootings. Which is true, compared to the rest of the world. Specially developed Europe.

For example, Drug overdoses, which is an epidemic that is also a huge problem of the US but rarely discussed, in the year 2021 100k people died from OD's.

In 2016 for example, in Europe according to this, 9000 people died in the whole of Europe due to Drug OD's.
https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/system/fil ... deaths.pdf

Whereas in the US, it had more than 5 times that same amount, around 60K in 2016

https://nida.nih.gov/drug-topics/trends ... eath-rates


We have huge societal issues going on, and until we don't talk about them this is going to continue.

You may ask, why do I compare to Drug OD's. Well drug trafficking is illegal, and all of those hard drugs heroin, cocaine etc are also illegal in Europe as in the US, despite that, in this country we have 6x more of a problem then Europe.

There is a mental health crisis in this country, which government banning things won't help.

You have, probably inadvertently, made a very interesting parallel there.

Heroin and the like are definitely illegal in Europe. Prescription opioids like Fentanyl which make a very important slice of ODs in the US are much more restricted in the way they are prescribed in Europe than in the US. And quite a lot of people are driven to heroin after being hooked on fentanyl or oxycodone by their prescriptions.

Legal to illegal is a very gradual scale, and just like handing out opioids like candy turns vulnerable people into addicts (and risk of OD) little to no restrictions on firearm ownership turns vulnerable people into mass shooters.

In order to get my guns I had to undergo training, licensing and a compulsory psych evaluation. I've had range mates getting their guns taken away because of a messy divorce or a felony DUI. It's not fun or cheap and I imagine it absolutely sucks if you end up on the wrong end of that, but that's also a good part of the reason why no one has ever shot up a school in this country.

Looks like a career loser politician from the great state of Texas was taken down by the towns people for trying to merchandise death and tragedy for his gain.

This piece of excrement politician from El Paso with no business in Uvalde was called a “Sick son of a B…” by the towns people and shown the door.

How sick of politicians to do this

Vintage wrote:

TriJets wrote:

The reality is that no one knows exactly how many instances of defensive gun use occur each year as the numbers are largely impossible to obtain. The best estimates are well north of the 100,000 figure, though:

The reality is the DOJ survey indicates that around 100,000 defensive gun uses occur each year. As far as I can see, it's pointless to bicker about the validity of this number.

TriJets wrote:

So it stands to reason that there are many, many reasons for Americans to own firearms for self defense. Chief amongst those reasons are the facts that criminals are already well-armed, and that the police are minutes to hours away when they are called which leaves a person vulnerable and having to defend themselves and/or their family until help arrives. Additionally, we've seen a pandemic, supply shortages, riots, and calls to defund the police in recent years which has only furthered the desire of previously unarmed Americans to purchase firearms for the first time-

Guns aren't very useful for pandemics, supply shortages or riots, so your argument boils down to "criminals are already well-armed" (they aren't) and "police are minutes to hours away" which is hyperbole as an argument anyway, as guns aren't always available either (OMG my gun is in the trunk, back at the house, locked up, unloaded, in this crazy guy's hands).

So we are left with the fact that more guns mean 'more guns'; criminals will have more guns, suicidal people will have more access to guns, children will have access to guns, the mentally ill will have more access to guns, drunks will have more access to guns, and individuals in the throes of anger will have more access to guns. Guns provide permanent solutions for temporary problems.

The frontier days are over, guns are no solution for crime, thinking of overthrowing the government is seditious, and guns are no substitute for manhood. We as a nation and as individuals are better off with as few of them around as possible.

Guns aren't useful for riots? Ask Kyle Rittenhouse about that. Guns are absolutely useful for riots, criminals are absolutely well armed, and the police are absolutely minutes to hours away when you need them. These things are not hyperbole, they are reality.

If you don't want a gun, don't buy one. You can make your own decision, just like all other law-abiding citizens can make their own. Ignoring reality and trying to minimize the dangerous world that we live in does not make your argument somehow right.

scbriml wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

The reality is that it's total hogwash, as vast countries and continents that aren't up to their eyeballs in guns aren't facing a corresponding tidal wave of crimes that would require defensive gun use. If anything you're using examples of guns to defend from...more guns. It's a circular reference that's laughable if it weren't so sad.

I've had this very conversation multiple times with American colleagues over the year. It always goes the same way, but they really struggle to comprehend it - there's effectively zero chance of any intruder in my home having a gun, simply because he knows damned well that I won't have a gun.

Outside of the home, the chances of me encountering any criminal with a gun in any situation are infinitesimally small in the UK. I accept that if I were a member of some inner-city gang, the chances might be higher, but they're still very low.

That's exactly why it is so hard to compare gun crime/gun ownership in places like the UK with places like the USA. The criminals already have weapons here....there are more guns in the US than there are people. The tables are turned....law-abiding citizens are armed because they know that criminals are already armed. If you want to convince law-abiding citizens to give up their arms, disarm the criminals first.

Newark727 wrote:

william wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Texas gunman was bullied as a child, grew increasingly violent, friends say

Salvador Rolando Ramos suffered from a fraught home life and lashed out violently against peers and strangers recently and over the years, friends and relatives said.

https://www.startribune.com/texas-gunma ... 600176290/

Is there a detailed published timeline yet of the horrific events from yesterday, that begins before: "shooter is in the school" ??

Bty, how does a 17 year old, in the so-called impoverished area of Uvalde, who just turned 18, get $1800 to buy a gun??

True, I wondered the same too. One report stated $5k worth of guns and ammo.

It seems conceivable if he had a part-time job and family covering his living expenses.

So yes, I am curious about this mass murderer's lifestyle, including what jobs he worked, and for how long.
Being curious about that won't bring back the children he shot and killed.
But, I am curious, nevertheless.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Newark727 wrote:

william wrote:

[/b]

True, I wondered the same too. One report stated $5k worth of guns and ammo.

It seems conceivable if he had a part-time job and family covering his living expenses.

So yes, I am curious about this mass murderer's lifestyle, including what jobs he worked, and for how long.
Being curious about that won't bring back the children he shot and killed.
But, I am curious, nevertheless.

He previously worked at a Wendys. But unemployed at time of mass murder.