ACDC8 wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

That number is also manipulated, why is it so hard to admit that people manipulate stats? Both sides constantly do it.

LOL - whats to manipulate? If a person goes into a school and opens fire on multiple people, thats pretty black and white. The only manipulation being played is "well, you can't really count those because it happened in the "ghetto"" or "well that doesn't really count, because they were over the age of 18" and so on and so forth.

Mmmmhmmmm "we are pro life" and "stop calling us racist" also "those dead thugs don't count'

Always the same song.

"This is no longer a political partisan issue, its a life preservation issue"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAMpH9U6rR8

ACDC8 wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

That number is also manipulated, why is it so hard to admit that people manipulate stats? Both sides constantly do it.

LOL - whats to manipulate? If a person goes into a school and opens fire on multiple people, thats pretty black and white. The only manipulation being played is "well, you can't really count those because it happened in the "ghetto"" or "well that doesn't really count, because they were over the age of 18" and so on and so forth.

Again, any dead child is a tragedy, but a shooting like Uvalde is a lot different to a shooting of rival gang members on school property. I never said ghetto, that was you interjecting that.

MaverickM11 wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

That number is also manipulated, why is it so hard to admit that people manipulate stats? Both sides constantly do it.

LOL - whats to manipulate? If a person goes into a school and opens fire on multiple people, thats pretty black and white. The only manipulation being played is "well, you can't really count those because it happened in the "ghetto"" or "well that doesn't really count, because they were over the age of 18" and so on and so forth.

Mmmmhmmmm "we are pro life" and "stop calling us racist" also "those dead thugs don't count'

Always the same song.

No one said that, and you know it. No one is saying any of those shootings are okay. People are trying to portray the situation a lot differnt than it is, and some people are just trying to show the correct picture. Most of the reported school shootings are not of the type displayed in Uvalde.

ACDC8 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

18 year-olds are adults, not children.

And I'm the one being accused of moving goalposts?

18 year old "adults" that can't even buy a beer

The goalposts haven't moved. 18 year olds have legally been considered adults for generations in the US. Facts matter. If you are going to make a statistical argument, don't use bunk stats.

bpatus297 wrote:

Again, any dead child is a tragedy, but a shooting like Uvalde is a lot different to a shooting of rival gang members on school property. I never said ghetto, that was you interjecting that.

I never interjected "ghetto" I'm just repeating whats been interjected in the other mass shooting threads.

Uvalde - was that gang related?
Parkland - was that gang related?
Sandy Hook - was that gang related?
Umpqua - was that gang related?
Santa Fe High - was that gang related?
Oikos University - was that gang related?
Santa Monica College - was that gang related?
Rancho Tehama Elementary - was that gang related?
Marysville Pilchuck High - was that gang related?
Chardon High - was that gang related?
UCLA - was that gang related?
Aztec High - was that gang related?
Saugus High - was that gang related?
Millard South High- was that gang related?

And thats just a few over the last 12 years, there are still many, many more that I'm not even going to bother listing.

So, what other country comparable to the US has had 14 school shootings in the last dozen years?

TriJets wrote:

The goalposts haven't moved. 18 year olds have legally been considered adults for generations in the US. Facts matter. If you are going to make a statistical argument, don't use bunk stats.

School shooting is a school shooting, doesn't matter if its an elementary school or post secondary just as gun violence is gun violence doesn't matter who the shooter is, who their target is or where it happened. Its really that simple, constantly looking for excuses by saying this age, that age, this neighbourhood, that neighbourhood is nothing but grasping for straws trying to avoid the undeniable fact that guns are the actual problem.

ACDC8 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

The goalposts haven't moved. 18 year olds have legally been considered adults for generations in the US. Facts matter. If you are going to make a statistical argument, don't use bunk stats.

School shooting is a school shooting, doesn't matter if its an elementary school or post secondary just as gun violence is gun violence doesn't matter who the shooter is, who their target is or where it happened. Its really that simple, constantly looking for excuses by saying this age, that age, this neighbourhood, that neighbourhood is nothing but grasping for straws trying to avoid the undeniable fact that guns are the actual problem.

I wasn't referring to school shootings. I was casting doubt on another poster's claim that guns are the leading cause of death for children in the US, because that poster used a definition that included legal adults in its tally. In response, I posted stats showing that guns don't even rank on the top 5 causes of death for children in the US.

TriJets wrote:

I wasn't referring to school shootings. I was casting doubt on another poster's claim that guns are the leading cause of death for children in the US, because that poster used a definition that included legal adults in its tally. In response, I posted stats showing that guns don't even rank on the top 5 causes of death for children in the US.

Children and adolescents are commonly grouped in the same category, age 0-19 and yes, gun related deaths are now the leading cause of death in the US for that age group.

TriJets wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

The goalposts haven't moved. 18 year olds have legally been considered adults for generations in the US. Facts matter. If you are going to make a statistical argument, don't use bunk stats.

School shooting is a school shooting, doesn't matter if its an elementary school or post secondary just as gun violence is gun violence doesn't matter who the shooter is, who their target is or where it happened. Its really that simple, constantly looking for excuses by saying this age, that age, this neighbourhood, that neighbourhood is nothing but grasping for straws trying to avoid the undeniable fact that guns are the actual problem.

I wasn't referring to school shootings. I was casting doubt on another poster's claim that guns are the leading cause of death for children in the US, because that poster used a definition that included legal adults in its tally. In response, I posted stats showing that guns don't even rank on the top 5 causes of death for children in the US.

OK, leading cause of death for 1-19yo in the USA, which includes 16 years which count legally as children. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761

It's still totally insane compared to any other developed country.

ACDC8 wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

Again, any dead child is a tragedy, but a shooting like Uvalde is a lot different to a shooting of rival gang members on school property. I never said ghetto, that was you interjecting that.

I never interjected "ghetto" I'm just repeating whats been interjected in the other mass shooting threads.

Uvalde - was that gang related?
Parkland - was that gang related?
Sandy Hook - was that gang related?
Umpqua - was that gang related?
Santa Fe High - was that gang related?
Oikos University - was that gang related?
Santa Monica College - was that gang related?
Rancho Tehama Elementary - was that gang related?
Marysville Pilchuck High - was that gang related?
Chardon High - was that gang related?
UCLA - was that gang related?
Aztec High - was that gang related?
Saugus High - was that gang related?
Millard South High- was that gang related?

And thats just a few over the last 12 years, there are still many, many more that I'm not even going to bother listing.

So, what other country comparable to the US has had 14 school shootings in the last dozen years?

The media is using 27 in reference to thw number of school shootings in 2022. That number includes shooting that are not related to the active shooter type events like Uvalde. Again, no one is saying it's not a problem, but that is not what the media is hyping it up to be. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to fix it, but the progressive left only says they want to ban guns, which causes the conservative right to dig in their heals and say no your not. So nothing will get done, because neither side are listening to each other. I don't think you are really trying to understand what I am saying, you are just looking to discredit me, since I don't share your view.

ACDC8 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

The goalposts haven't moved. 18 year olds have legally been considered adults for generations in the US. Facts matter. If you are going to make a statistical argument, don't use bunk stats.

School shooting is a school shooting, doesn't matter if its an elementary school or post secondary just as gun violence is gun violence doesn't matter who the shooter is, who their target is or where it happened. Its really that simple, constantly looking for excuses by saying this age, that age, this neighbourhood, that neighbourhood is nothing but grasping for straws trying to avoid the undeniable fact that guns are the actual problem.

Not true, an active shooter like Uvalde is different than two guys who have a beef and one shots the other.

ACDC8 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

I wasn't referring to school shootings. I was casting doubt on another poster's claim that guns are the leading cause of death for children in the US, because that poster used a definition that included legal adults in its tally. In response, I posted stats showing that guns don't even rank on the top 5 causes of death for children in the US.

Children and adolescents are commonly grouped in the same category, age 0-19 and yes, gun related deaths are now the leading cause of death in the US for that age group.

People 18 and older are not legally considered children. Cars, pools, and house fires kill far more children each year in the United States than guns.

Kent350787 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

School shooting is a school shooting, doesn't matter if its an elementary school or post secondary just as gun violence is gun violence doesn't matter who the shooter is, who their target is or where it happened. Its really that simple, constantly looking for excuses by saying this age, that age, this neighbourhood, that neighbourhood is nothing but grasping for straws trying to avoid the undeniable fact that guns are the actual problem.

I wasn't referring to school shootings. I was casting doubt on another poster's claim that guns are the leading cause of death for children in the US, because that poster used a definition that included legal adults in its tally. In response, I posted stats showing that guns don't even rank on the top 5 causes of death for children in the US.

OK, leading cause of death for 1-19yo in the USA, which includes 16 years which count legally as children. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761

It's still totally insane compared to any other developed country.

For 0-14 year olds, traffic accidents and drownings cause many more deaths than firearms (47% and 14% versus 2%).

bpatus297 wrote:

The media is using 27 in reference to thw number of school shootings in 2022. That number includes shooting that are not related to the active shooter type events like Uvalde. Again, no one is saying it's not a problem, but that is not what the media is hyping it up to be. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to fix it, but the progressive left only says they want to ban guns, which causes the conservative right to dig in their heals and say no your not. So nothing will get done, because neither side are listening to each other. I don't think you are really trying to understand what I am saying, you are just looking to discredit me, since I don't share your view.

Why do you keep bringing up the media? Nowhere have I referenced it. I gave you a list of 14 examples of non-gang related school shootings where multiple people died that happened in the US over the last 12 years and I haven't heard anyone provide and data in any other country comparable to the US where the same thing has been happening.

The US is the only country where this is happening, and its more than a problem, its an absolute catastrophe. This is not a media problem, this is a gun problem - full stop.

TriJets wrote:

Kent350787 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

I wasn't referring to school shootings. I was casting doubt on another poster's claim that guns are the leading cause of death for children in the US, because that poster used a definition that included legal adults in its tally. In response, I posted stats showing that guns don't even rank on the top 5 causes of death for children in the US.

OK, leading cause of death for 1-19yo in the USA, which includes 16 years which count legally as children. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761

It's still totally insane compared to any other developed country.

For 0-14 year olds, traffic accidents and drownings cause many more deaths than firearms (47% and 14% versus 2%).

Ah, 15-19yo don't count if they die by gunfire. OK, got it.

This miereneuker is valuable for its accuracy, but ignores the larger, insane to the rest of the world picture of US gun deaths. But, OK, life is cheap in the US, especially to the right, I get it.

TriJets wrote:

People 18 and older are not legally considered children. Cars, pools, and house fires kill far more children each year in the United States than guns.

I didn't say they were legally considered children - I said they were grouped together in a specific age group which is a very common thing especially in regards to statistics.

ACDC8 wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

The media is using 27 in reference to thw number of school shootings in 2022. That number includes shooting that are not related to the active shooter type events like Uvalde. Again, no one is saying it's not a problem, but that is not what the media is hyping it up to be. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to fix it, but the progressive left only says they want to ban guns, which causes the conservative right to dig in their heals and say no your not. So nothing will get done, because neither side are listening to each other. I don't think you are really trying to understand what I am saying, you are just looking to discredit me, since I don't share your view.

Why do you keep bringing up the media? Nowhere have I referenced it. I gave you a list of 14 examples of non-gang related school shootings where multiple people died that happened in the US over the last 12 years and I haven't heard anyone provide and data in any other country comparable to the US where the same thing has been happening.

The US is the only country where this is happening, and its more than a problem, its an absolute catastrophe. This is not a media problem, this is a gun problem - full stop.

Just because you say full stop dosent make it so. You think that guns are cuasing these shootings? The gun is a tool, the issue as to why the person could actually commit such a heinous act is no where near as clear cut as you think it is.

Kent350787 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

Kent350787 wrote:

OK, leading cause of death for 1-19yo in the USA, which includes 16 years which count legally as children. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761

It's still totally insane compared to any other developed country.

For 0-14 year olds, traffic accidents and drownings cause many more deaths than firearms (47% and 14% versus 2%).

Ah, 15-19yo don't count if they die by gunfire. OK, got it.

Never said that. The next age range in the CDC data is 15-24, so it was impossible to extrapolate 15-17 year-olds. Even in that age group, however, firearms were not the leading cause of death.

bpatus297 wrote:

Just because you say full stop dosent make it so. You think that guns are cuasing these shootings? The gun is a tool, the issue as to why the person could actually commit such a heinous act is no where near as clear cut as you think it is.

Do you honestly believe that the rest of the developed world doesn't have to deal with the same reasons/motives as to why a person would do something like this? We do - mental health, aggression, racism, intolerance, vengeance is a very big issue for the rest of the world - but the one thing that differentiates us from the US is that we don't have to deal with mass shootings over and over and over and over and over and over again because we restrict who can own a firearm and what kind of fire arm they can own. The world has literally figured this out while the US continues to argue over doors and ballistic blankets for kids.

ACDC8 wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

Just because you say full stop dosent make it so. You think that guns are cuasing these shootings? The gun is a tool, the issue as to why the person could actually commit such a heinous act is no where near as clear cut as you think it is.

Do you honestly believe that the rest of the developed world doesn't have to deal with the same reasons/motives as to why a person would do something like this? We do - mental health, aggression, racism, intolerance, vengeance is a very big issue for the rest of the world - but the one thing that differentiates us from the US is that we don't have to deal with mass shootings over and over and over and over and over and over again because we restrict who can own a firearm and what kind of fire arm they can own. The world has literally figured this out while the US continues to argue over doors and ballistic blankets for kids.

Really worked well at the Bataclan, right?

Thread has drifted off topic and is now locked