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Vintage
Posts: 631
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:48 pm

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:18 pm

afcjets wrote:
What did you think of the primetime commercials in late 2016 that every major network showed with famous actors pleading for Republican electors to not cast their vote from Trump in states he won? What did you think of the members of Congress who urged the same? Should they be prosecuted? What do you think will happen if Trump wins the general election in 2024?


LOOK!
A squirrel!


You can start your own thread if you want to start a new topic.
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 1434
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:23 pm

afcjets wrote:

What did you think of the primetime commercials in late 2016 that every major network showed with famous actors pleading for Republican electors to not cast their vote from Trump in states he won? What did you think of the members of Congress who urged the same? Should they be prosecuted? What do you think will happen if Trump wins the general election in 2024?

https://youtu.be/e1zjNntlXPo


One can certainly question the appropriateness of celebrities asking electors to alter their votes. But their actions were neither illegal nor unconstitutional. Electors would be free to make up their own minds. A case of bad taste or poor judgement, maybe.

But it's a massively false equivalence to suggest this is the same as the campaign Trump organized to overturn his defeat. Trump sent supporters to disrupt the counting of electoral votes, and also organized slates of alternate electors to vote for him, both of which were actions in opposition to the Constitution.

Trump did not ask electors to change their minds, he selected his own electors. The legally nominated electors would have been simply excluded, and replaced. There is no comparison at all.
Last edited by Avatar2go on Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1705
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:31 pm

Vintage wrote:
afcjets wrote:
What did you think of the primetime commercials in late 2016 that every major network showed with famous actors pleading for Republican electors to not cast their vote from Trump in states he won? What did you think of the members of Congress who urged the same? Should they be prosecuted? What do you think will happen if Trump wins the general election in 2024?


LOOK!
A squirrel!


You can start your own thread if you want to start a new topic.

Nothing wrong with the commercial. Just a foreshadowing of 4 years of calling Trump an illegitimate President from the people who never accepted the 2016 election, did everything they could to undermine him, but tell you how much they fear for our democracy now. The same ones who shed crocodile tears for 1/6, the WORST DAY IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY (TM).
 
Vintage
Posts: 631
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:48 pm

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:42 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Nothing wrong with the commercial. Just a foreshadowing of 4 years of calling Trump an illegitimate President from the people who never accepted the 2016 election, did everything they could to undermine him, but tell you how much they fear for our democracy now. The same ones who shed crocodile tears for 1/6, the WORST DAY IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY (TM).

You need to read Avatar2go's post above.
 
Newark727
Posts: 3055
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:43 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Nothing wrong with the commercial. Just a foreshadowing of 4 years of calling Trump an illegitimate President from the people who never accepted the 2016 election, did everything they could to undermine him, but tell you how much they fear for our democracy now. The same ones who shed crocodile tears for 1/6, the WORST DAY IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY (TM).


As always with the right, accusations are admissions. Every Democratic presidency for as long as I've been alive has been illegitimate for some reason or another. The Clintons were a murderous, drug-smuggling crime family that needed to be impeached over a blowjob, Obama was a usurper from Kenya with a fake birth certificate, Biden stole the 2020 election by means unknowable, there are busloads of fake voters in every city...

This is your bed. Lie in it like the rest of us.
Last edited by Newark727 on Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 1434
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:45 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Nothing wrong with the commercial. Just a foreshadowing of 4 years of calling Trump an illegitimate President from the people who never accepted the 2016 election, did everything they could to undermine him, but tell you how much they fear for our democracy now. The same ones who shed crocodile tears for 1/6, the WORST DAY IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY (TM).


Ironically as I watched the commercial, I realized that most of their criticisms turned out to be correct. And so, here we are now.

Which doesn't justify making the commercial or urging electors to change their votes, as the appropriateness of that is a separate issue from whether they were right or wrong.
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1705
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:46 pm

Nancy wants to keep crying wolf until November but apparently outside the usual sheep, no-one cares. IRL folks are more concerned about the "transitory" inflation and Putin's Price Hikes. I don't think 1/6 is in most peoples Top Ten.

We'll see in November how good a job Vlad does on stealing this election, how much voter suppression we get. Odd how in 2016 when a Dem was President we had a fraudulent election, but we had a Perfect Election when evil Trump was POTUS, and another fraudulent election in 2022 when the Democrats get smoked under Biden.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 18153
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:11 am

Bricktop wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Wow, so you want us to believe that: a. Jim Banks and Jim Jordan would take the proceedings seriously if on the panel

So let them make fools of themselves. Again, if the case is so overwhelming, nothing to fear.

No, much better to use sock puppets instead. Very "serious".


It has nothing to do with the case or its strength - not wanting to sideshow hearings with completely unprofessional public conduct on the regular is quite reasonable.
 
Newark727
Posts: 3055
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:11 am

I see we've reached the "well, who amongst us hasn't done a bit of political violence from time to time" stage of the argument. I'll address it in detail once I've finished mixing these Molotov cocktails, since apparently we're just expecting that now. Remember, the ratio is 3/4 gasoline to 1/4 diesel!
Last edited by Newark727 on Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:14 am

Bricktop wrote:
Vintage wrote:
afcjets wrote:
What did you think of the primetime commercials in late 2016 that every major network showed with famous actors pleading for Republican electors to not cast their vote from Trump in states he won? What did you think of the members of Congress who urged the same? Should they be prosecuted? What do you think will happen if Trump wins the general election in 2024?


LOOK!
A squirrel!


You can start your own thread if you want to start a new topic.

Nothing wrong with the commercial. Just a foreshadowing of 4 years of calling Trump an illegitimate President from the people who never accepted the 2016 election, did everything they could to undermine him, but tell you how much they fear for our democracy now. The same ones who shed crocodile tears for 1/6, the WORST DAY IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY (TM).


This entire statement can be viewed as a readback of Gabriel Sterling's testimony on observing people who went waaay overboard on emotionalism.
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 1434
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:20 am

Bricktop wrote:
Do you remember that on Election Day 2020, businesses around the country boarded up in anticipation of violence. And it wasn't against riots from Republicans.

I'm sure that if Roe gets tossed back to the states, there will be no violence at all. Peaceful, not "mostly peaceful" certainly.


This is yet another set of false equivalences, as has already been pointed out. There is no comparison between the BLM riots and the Capitol riots. As Vintage noted, it's a case of whataboutism.

I remember that in Chicago, there were no election riots. The only riots were in Washington, and they were Republicans, not Democrats. I also remember that the boards stayed up for a long time, because Trump refused to concede.

With Roe, there are fears of violence on both sides, but thus far there has been none. Certainly the anti-abortion factions have a long history of violence of their own. But again, there is no equivalence with the Capitol riots, or reslationship to the Jan 6 hearings.
 
Avatar2go
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:07 am

Just watching the hearing, as I only listened at work today. The Arizona House Speaker Rusty Bowers gave a very powerful statement about the importance of the peaceful transfer of power. He quoted Ronald Reagan, that it's routine for Americans but viewed as a miracle by many nations in the world, and is one of the most fundamental bedrock principles of the US. Power is invested in the people and not in the leader. And that he was deeply offended by the notion that he was asked to break his oath to the Constitution, which he views as a sacred duty.
 
afcjets
Posts: 4090
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:33 am

Avatar2go wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Nothing wrong with the commercial. Just a foreshadowing of 4 years of calling Trump an illegitimate President from the people who never accepted the 2016 election, did everything they could to undermine him, but tell you how much they fear for our democracy now. The same ones who shed crocodile tears for 1/6, the WORST DAY IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY (TM).


Ironically as I watched the commercial, I realized that most of their criticisms turned out to be correct. And so, here we are now.

Which doesn't justify making the commercial or urging electors to change their votes, as the appropriateness of that is a separate issue from whether they were right or wrong.


The irony is it sounds like it was custom made for Joe instead of Trump.
 
Avatar2go
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:01 am

afcjets wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Nothing wrong with the commercial. Just a foreshadowing of 4 years of calling Trump an illegitimate President from the people who never accepted the 2016 election, did everything they could to undermine him, but tell you how much they fear for our democracy now. The same ones who shed crocodile tears for 1/6, the WORST DAY IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY (TM).


Ironically as I watched the commercial, I realized that most of their criticisms turned out to be correct. And so, here we are now.

Which doesn't justify making the commercial or urging electors to change their votes, as the appropriateness of that is a separate issue from whether they were right or wrong.


The irony is it sounds like it was custom made for Joe instead of Trump.


So again as a matter of truth and fact, it was made for Trump, and subsequent events have proven it correct. Had nothing whatever to do with Biden, but saying so is yet another deflection from the truth of the hearings, and what they expose about Trump.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 839
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:05 am

art wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Yes, I'm English.

Firstly, American politics directly affects me in ways I'm not prepared to discuss here. Secondly, much of the World outside America was severely shocked by the events of 6th January and is taking great interest in these hearings.


Just curious, I find it interesting that a non-US Citizen is so interested in US politics, particularly holding very strong bias towards a specific party.


I'm British, too. I like democracy. As far as I can see Trump attempted to subvert the form of democracy practised in the US. That worried me, given the status of the US - world's most powerful democratic nation.

I am aware that US politicians are so partisan that investigations they conduct are not impartial so I take this one with a pinch of salt. Nevertheless it is abundantly clear to me that your ex-head of state tried very hard to corrupt your democratic process. His desire was to undermine the electoral process so he could hold power despite failing to be elected.


Nice. Thank you for your prospective.
 
bpatus297
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:10 am

chimborazo wrote:
art wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

Just curious, I find it interesting that a non-US Citizen is so interested in US politics, particularly holding very strong bias towards a specific party.


I'm British, too. I like democracy. As far as I can see Trump attempted to subvert the form of democracy practised in the US. That worried me, given the status of the US - world's most powerful democratic nation.

I am aware that US politicians are so partisan that investigations they conduct are not impartial so I take this one with a pinch of salt. Nevertheless it is abundantly clear to me that your ex-head of state tried very hard to corrupt your democratic process. His desire was to undermine the electoral process so he could hold power despite failing to be elected.


To add to the above, we (I’m also British) get a lot of USA news on our media. US considers itself the world’s policeman, our leaders tend to align with them so it has a direct impact on us, as others have noted.

So when the proclaimed leading nation of the free world suffers a real threat to democracy like this it matters. It really matters. Freedom means you can have free and fair elections (and you do, putting aside whether the electoral college system is in fact fair). It follows that when a mob and the millions who support genuinely think that an election has been stolen, it resonates across the world. It’s no better than an attempted coup in a banana republic.


I agree thus is very banana republic. I wish we weren't the world's policeman, rather leaders in freedom and liberty. A shining light or beacon to show others the way. Unfortunately, we have fallen very far from that and it saddens me to sat it, but its the truth. There is plenty of blame on all sides for it.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:55 am

bpatus297 wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
art wrote:

I'm British, too. I like democracy. As far as I can see Trump attempted to subvert the form of democracy practised in the US. That worried me, given the status of the US - world's most powerful democratic nation.

I am aware that US politicians are so partisan that investigations they conduct are not impartial so I take this one with a pinch of salt. Nevertheless it is abundantly clear to me that your ex-head of state tried very hard to corrupt your democratic process. His desire was to undermine the electoral process so he could hold power despite failing to be elected.


To add to the above, we (I’m also British) get a lot of USA news on our media. US considers itself the world’s policeman, our leaders tend to align with them so it has a direct impact on us, as others have noted.

So when the proclaimed leading nation of the free world suffers a real threat to democracy like this it matters. It really matters. Freedom means you can have free and fair elections (and you do, putting aside whether the electoral college system is in fact fair). It follows that when a mob and the millions who support genuinely think that an election has been stolen, it resonates across the world. It’s no better than an attempted coup in a banana republic.


I agree thus is very banana republic. I wish we weren't the world's policeman, rather leaders in freedom and liberty. A shining light or beacon to show others the way. Unfortunately, we have fallen very far from that and it saddens me to sat it, but its the truth. There is plenty of blame on all sides for it.


Some of it is also social and not expressly political. As a society in the past few decades we have moved from respecting and accepting expertise to rejecting it in favor of ‘what my gut/feelings say’. Best example: in the 50s and 60s the space race encouraged millions of Americas to aggressively pursue science and engineering fields. Now those fields are derided by some as ‘indoctrination’ and millions claim w/o evidence that Apollo was a giant hoax. Sad!
 
art
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:47 am

Bricktop wrote:
Nancy wants to keep crying wolf until November but apparently outside the usual sheep, no-one cares. IRL folks are more concerned about the "transitory" inflation and Putin's Price Hikes. I don't think 1/6 is in most peoples Top Ten.

We'll see in November how good a job Vlad does on stealing this election, how much voter suppression we get. Odd how in 2016 when a Dem was President we had a fraudulent election, but we had a Perfect Election when evil Trump was POTUS, and another fraudulent election in 2022 when the Democrats get smoked under Biden.


You seem to suffer from candidates who do not subscribe to the spirit of democracy. If they win, they are content with proceedings. If not, they cry foul.
 
GDB
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:57 am

Kent350787 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Yes, I'm English.

Firstly, American politics directly affects me in ways I'm not prepared to discuss here. Secondly, much of the World outside America was severely shocked by the events of 6th January and is taking great interest in these hearings.


Just curious, I find it interesting that a non-US Citizen is so interested in US politics, particularly holding very strong bias towards a specific party.


With the US as the dominant superpower for most of the last 100 years, I'm surprised that someone would find it odd? My workplace in Nov 2016 had TV screens around the building, and every one of them was showing US election coverage, with people clustered around them.

I agree with scbriml that most of the rest of the world was aghast at what happened on 1/6/21, having been somewhat similar across the whole of Trump's term in office. The rest of the developed world is more centrist politically, so a standard GoP adminsitration is questioned. With rhe Trump administration, the US seemed to move into an evidence light/lie heavy space which had the rest of the developed world fearing for US democracy.


When Trump won in 2016, someone on here predicted if he lost in 2020, he would not go quietly, would try to resist, to cheat.
Oh how the usual suspects, some still here, others maybe under new usernames after a banning or just too much ridicule for their nonsense, laughed, sneered, cited ‘TDS’.
Like everything else with their god Trump, themselves too, the ‘derangement’ is all them.
It’s called projection and you just cannot help yourselves, it’s ingrained.
 
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casinterest
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:04 pm

Interesting Take away from Jan 6 meeting on Tuesday

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/21/poli ... index.html


Tuesday's hearing featured in-person testimony from three conservative Republicans who endorsed Trump in 2020. The committee also played deposition clips from two other GOP officials: Michigan State Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey and Pennsylvania House Speaker Bryan Cutler.
They all provided damning testimony against Trump, describing how he repeatedly tried to twist their arms and cajole them to overturn the results. They also described the threats and pressure they faced from Trump supporters who believed his election lies and protested outside their homes and offices, and bombarded them with calls and text messages.


The Republicans are the main witnesses against Trump, and it is shining a big light on how complicit the GOP leadership was on Jan 6, and the aftermath. McCarthy and McConnell were wrong not to support the impeachment and joint investigations into Jan 6. A criminal lot. The whole of them.
 
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NIKV69
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:20 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Nancy wants to keep crying wolf until November but apparently outside the usual sheep, no-one cares. IRL folks are more concerned about the "transitory" inflation and Putin's Price Hikes. I don't think 1/6 is in most peoples Top Ten.

We'll see in November how good a job Vlad does on stealing this election, how much voter suppression we get. Odd how in 2016 when a Dem was President we had a fraudulent election, but we had a Perfect Election when evil Trump was POTUS, and another fraudulent election in 2022 when the Democrats get smoked under Biden.


Oh yea just like in 2016 when they said our president was "Illegitimate" it's ok they can't spin their way out of this one. This country is in the worst shape since I have been alive and this guy makes Carter look good so they will get smoke in November.
 
art
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:41 pm

If these hearings elicit evidence leading to criminal prosecution of the ex-president, would that exclude him from running in 2024? A gentleman would voluntarily rule himself out until his name was cleared but I am not too confident that Trump is such a gentleman.
 
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casinterest
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:44 pm

art wrote:
If these hearings elicit evidence leading to criminal prosecution of the ex-president, would that exclude him from running in 2024? A gentleman would voluntarily rule himself out until his name was cleared but I am not too confident that Trump is such a gentleman.


I think we will see charges brought in Georgia, and maybe even Arizona. The Feds have enough to go after Eastmann and then work up from there to Trump.

One has to wonder, it they really thought there was election Fraud, why did they need a partisan band of alternative electors?
That right there seems to me to be the big charge of conspiracy to commit sedition.
 
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seb146
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:55 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Nancy wants to keep crying wolf until November but apparently outside the usual sheep, no-one cares. IRL folks are more concerned about the "transitory" inflation and Putin's Price Hikes. I don't think 1/6 is in most peoples Top Ten.

We'll see in November how good a job Vlad does on stealing this election, how much voter suppression we get. Odd how in 2016 when a Dem was President we had a fraudulent election, but we had a Perfect Election when evil Trump was POTUS, and another fraudulent election in 2022 when the Democrats get smoked under Biden.


Oh yea just like in 2016 when they said our president was "Illegitimate" it's ok they can't spin their way out of this one. This country is in the worst shape since I have been alive and this guy makes Carter look good so they will get smoke in November.


No one said he was illegitimate. He lost the popular vote. A majority of Americans did not want him. And, after DEMOCRATS upheld the Constitution, terrible as he was, he was still sworn in. No attempted coup, no gallows, no calls for fake electors, no demands that millions of votes were illegal. The Constitution worked as intended. Just like in 2020.

And he still lost the popular vote. Twice.
 
Newark727
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Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:36 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Nancy wants to keep crying wolf until November but apparently outside the usual sheep, no-one cares. IRL folks are more concerned about the "transitory" inflation and Putin's Price Hikes. I don't think 1/6 is in most peoples Top Ten.

We'll see in November how good a job Vlad does on stealing this election, how much voter suppression we get. Odd how in 2016 when a Dem was President we had a fraudulent election, but we had a Perfect Election when evil Trump was POTUS, and another fraudulent election in 2022 when the Democrats get smoked under Biden.


Oh yea just like in 2016 when they said our president was "Illegitimate" it's ok they can't spin their way out of this one. This country is in the worst shape since I have been alive and this guy makes Carter look good so they will get smoke in November.


Listen, we can draw a line under this crap now, or we can expect it in every presidential election from now until Doomsday.
 
stratosphere
Posts: 2094
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:12 pm

seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Nancy wants to keep crying wolf until November but apparently outside the usual sheep, no-one cares. IRL folks are more concerned about the "transitory" inflation and Putin's Price Hikes. I don't think 1/6 is in most peoples Top Ten.

We'll see in November how good a job Vlad does on stealing this election, how much voter suppression we get. Odd how in 2016 when a Dem was President we had a fraudulent election, but we had a Perfect Election when evil Trump was POTUS, and another fraudulent election in 2022 when the Democrats get smoked under Biden.


Oh yea just like in 2016 when they said our president was "Illegitimate" it's ok they can't spin their way out of this one. This country is in the worst shape since I have been alive and this guy makes Carter look good so they will get smoke in November.


No one said he was illegitimate. He lost the popular vote. A majority of Americans did not want him. And, after DEMOCRATS upheld the Constitution, terrible as he was, he was still sworn in. No attempted coup, no gallows, no calls for fake electors, no demands that millions of votes were illegal. The Constitution worked as intended. Just like in 2020.

And he still lost the popular vote. Twice.


Bet he wouldn't lose it now....If you ran Trump against Biden today Biden wouldn't stand a chance. But to be honest I hope Trump doesn't try to run again he has done enough damage. I wouldn't mind seeing DeSantis throw his hat in the ring tho..
 
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Aaron747
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:20 pm

stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

Oh yea just like in 2016 when they said our president was "Illegitimate" it's ok they can't spin their way out of this one. This country is in the worst shape since I have been alive and this guy makes Carter look good so they will get smoke in November.


No one said he was illegitimate. He lost the popular vote. A majority of Americans did not want him. And, after DEMOCRATS upheld the Constitution, terrible as he was, he was still sworn in. No attempted coup, no gallows, no calls for fake electors, no demands that millions of votes were illegal. The Constitution worked as intended. Just like in 2020.

And he still lost the popular vote. Twice.


Bet he wouldn't lose it now....If you ran Trump against Biden today Biden wouldn't stand a chance. But to be honest I hope Trump doesn't try to run again he has done enough damage. I wouldn't mind seeing DeSantis throw his hat in the ring tho..


How about no more septuagenarians running anymore, period. I'd like to see that...
 
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casinterest
Posts: 15691
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:45 pm

stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

Oh yea just like in 2016 when they said our president was "Illegitimate" it's ok they can't spin their way out of this one. This country is in the worst shape since I have been alive and this guy makes Carter look good so they will get smoke in November.


No one said he was illegitimate. He lost the popular vote. A majority of Americans did not want him. And, after DEMOCRATS upheld the Constitution, terrible as he was, he was still sworn in. No attempted coup, no gallows, no calls for fake electors, no demands that millions of votes were illegal. The Constitution worked as intended. Just like in 2020.

And he still lost the popular vote. Twice.


Bet he wouldn't lose it now....If you ran Trump against Biden today Biden wouldn't stand a chance. But to be honest I hope Trump doesn't try to run again he has done enough damage. I wouldn't mind seeing DeSantis throw his hat in the ring tho..

Trump wouldn't win again today. Just because the brainwashing on right wing media makes you think tht oil prices and inflation are solely hitting the USA, it doesn't mean everyone is that ignorant

Trump is a loser, a fraud, a racist, and a liar. There is no honor in following him or voting for him.
 
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NIKV69
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:17 pm

seb146 wrote:
No one said he was illegitimate


Yea ok, every Dem member of congress that loves the micophone including Hillary said it constantly. I mean really?

seb146 wrote:

. He lost the popular vote. Twice.


Reality check, the popular vote means nothing unless you are MSNBC and CNN. It's not how we pick our president but don't let a fact get in the way of smoke.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 15691
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:30 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
No one said he was illegitimate


Yea ok, every Dem member of congress that loves the micophone including Hillary said it constantly. I mean really?

seb146 wrote:

. He lost the popular vote. Twice.


Reality check, the popular vote means nothing unless you are MSNBC and CNN. It's not how we pick our president but don't let a fact get in the way of smoke.


Reality Check. Show your work on the Illegitimate . the only thing people said was that the Russians interfered in the election, and they did . To what extent the Trump administration aided the efforts of his best Friend Vlad was unable to be found since McConnell and McCarthy lacked the spine to investigate it.

The popular vote does matter, as since 2000 the GOP reps keep losing it , except for 2004 GWB.
And it did matter in this last election as Trump lost the electoral vote as well.
 
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NIKV69
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 pm

casinterest wrote:
Reality Check. Show your work on the Illegitimate .


OK
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/wat ... 4824003696

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/28/73700878 ... -president

A past Dem president, Hillary and John Lewis all called him illegitimate.. Think that is enough?

casinterest wrote:

The popular vote does matter, as since 2000 the GOP reps keep losing it , except for 2004 GWB.
And it did matter in this last election as Trump lost the electoral vote as well.


This statement makes no sense whatsoever and is again a way to try to alleviate the mental illness many can't get over that Trump was president. We don't pick our president with the popular vote, we never have and we will never will. So Joy Reid can still use it as a way to make every GOP president seem like they didn't win like what will happen in 2024.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 15691
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:20 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Reality Check. Show your work on the Illegitimate .


OK
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/wat ... 4824003696

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/28/73700878 ... -president

A past Dem president, Hillary and John Lewis all called him illegitimate.. Think that is enough?

casinterest wrote:

The popular vote does matter, as since 2000 the GOP reps keep losing it , except for 2004 GWB.
And it did matter in this last election as Trump lost the electoral vote as well.


This statement makes no sense whatsoever and is again a way to try to alleviate the mental illness many can't get over that Trump was president. We don't pick our president with the popular vote, we never have and we will never will. So Joy Reid can still use it as a way to make every GOP president seem like they didn't win like what will happen in 2024.



??????

What is this mental illness the far right has with investigating real issues of fraud? Russia interfered, and quite possibly aided trump in 2016, yet the GOP sat on their hands. In 2020, Trump lost, on a tip of the electoral college, and there is Fraud? and investigations must be pursued to no avail?
That is mental instability, and the GOP should not be leading.

Keep convincing yourself that Trump will win in 2024, but that is only the truth amongst the 60% of Republicans that continue to consume the Big lie.
 
art
Posts: 4965
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:47 pm

Any chance of going down the French route to provide greater clarity?

Round 1: many candidates may stand for election
Round 2: only the 2 candidates who attracted the most votes in round 1 can stand for election

Result: whoever is elected must have attracted more than 50% of the votes cast in the country. The possibility of the elected president not having received more than 50% of the popular vote cannot arise (although admittedly some people will 'spoil' their ballot paper to show the candidate they would have voted for if he/she had not been excluded from round 2).

I think that the French system avoids the situation extent in the US where disappointed voters divisively claim that the elected president has no legitimacy because he/she did not win the popular vote. Furthermore the risk of electors choosing not to vote for their state's winning candidate is eliminated.
 
afcjets
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:08 pm

art wrote:
If these hearings elicit evidence leading to criminal prosecution of the ex-president, would that exclude him from running in 2024? A gentleman would voluntarily rule himself out until his name was cleared but I am not too confident that Trump is such a gentleman.


No, of course he won't and why should he? One thing you can be sure of is if Trump runs, they will lie, cheat and steal and do everything in their power to stop him, including a real insurrection like they're accusing Trump of.
 
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casinterest
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:20 pm

afcjets wrote:
art wrote:
If these hearings elicit evidence leading to criminal prosecution of the ex-president, would that exclude him from running in 2024? A gentleman would voluntarily rule himself out until his name was cleared but I am not too confident that Trump is such a gentleman.


No, of course he won't and why should he? One thing you can be sure of is if Trump runs, they will lie, cheat and steal and do everything in their power to stop him, including a real insurrection like they're accusing Trump of.


Well that is some serious projection and gaslighting considering the thread we are in.

Trump lied in 2016-2022. and is working hard to erase 250 years of American Democracy through cheating and fraud. There is no place for him or his Anti American followers in 2024 or beyond .
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1624
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:20 pm

afcjets wrote:
One thing you can be sure of is if Trump runs, they will lie, cheat and steal and do everything in their power to stop him, including a real insurrection like they're accusing Trump of.


Cool story bro. Can I use your magic crystal ball to predict the future, once you are done with it?

Of course, all of it is just nothingburger whataboutism from those on this thread who don't want to discuss the ugly truth of Jan 6. So far we have had every 'what about?!' - BLM, ANTIFA, Hunter, Hillary, November midterms, inflation, gas prices ... and none are related to the Jan 6. events.
 
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NIKV69
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:21 pm

casinterest wrote:
What is this mental illness the far right has with investigating real issues of fraud?


Its not with the right its with the left and it's called Trump Derangment

casinterest wrote:

Russia interfered, and quite possibly aided trump in 2016


No that didn't happen, it was a fair election.

casinterest wrote:

Keep convincing yourself that Trump will win in 2024, but that is only the truth amongst the 60% of Republicans that continue to consume the Big lie.


Where did I say that? Please only quote actual posts of mine and comment. Truth is he isn't running in 2024. Can he win? Biden has destroyed the country so much that he might have a chance but he will run for only congress if at all. The GOP hopefully will out a good candidate so we can hear how he or she won without the popular vote. :sarcastic:
 
art
Posts: 4965
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:43 pm

afcjets wrote:
art wrote:
If these hearings elicit evidence leading to criminal prosecution of the ex-president, would that exclude him from running in 2024? A gentleman would voluntarily rule himself out until his name was cleared but I am not too confident that Trump is such a gentleman.


No, of course he won't and why should he? One thing you can be sure of is if Trump runs, they will lie, cheat and steal and do everything in their power to stop him, including a real insurrection like they're accusing Trump of.


Are you saying that the officials appointed to administer elections in the US are corrupt? Or the people doing the work on the ground are corrupt? Or both, perhaps? I would think that the only people who can 'steal' in an election are the people ensuring that all entitled to vote are able to vote - and nobody else - and those actually enabling, recording and calculating the votes.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 15691
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:47 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
What is this mental illness the far right has with investigating real issues of fraud?


Its not with the right its with the left and it's called Trump Derangment

casinterest wrote:

Russia interfered, and quite possibly aided trump in 2016


No that didn't happen, it was a fair election.

casinterest wrote:

Keep convincing yourself that Trump will win in 2024, but that is only the truth amongst the 60% of Republicans that continue to consume the Big lie.


Where did I say that? Please only quote actual posts of mine and comment. Truth is he isn't running in 2024. Can he win? Biden has destroyed the country so much that he might have a chance but he will run for only congress if at all. The GOP hopefully will out a good candidate so we can hear how he or she won without the popular vote. :sarcastic:


I love seeing how Anti American Right wing media has warped the minds of people. .
The only thing you believe is what they tell you to believe.
 
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casinterest
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:53 pm

Meanwhile
Ron Johnson from Wisconsin worked hard to hand Pence the Fake Electors that Trump had drummed up to override the actual Electors that had chosen to honor their states votes?

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/2 ... n-00040816

A top aide to Sen. Ron Johnson attempted to arrange a handoff of false, pro-Trump electors from the senator to Mike Pence just minutes before the then-vice president began to count electoral votes on Jan. 6, 2021.

The aide, Sean Riley, told Pence’s legislative director Chris Hodgson that Johnson wanted to hand Pence lists of the fake electors from Michigan and Wisconsin for Pence to introduce during the counting of electoral votes that certified Joe Biden’s win. The attempt was revealed in text messages obtained by the Jan. 6 select committee during its fourth public hearing on Tuesday.



Why do they need fake electors if they thought the votes were false?
It seems like this was an attempted overthrow of the Government.

During the hearing, another theme emerged: State legislative leaders pleaded with Trump and Giuliani for any evidence to support their sweeping claims of fraud and irregularities. But Giuliani, while insisting the evidence existed, never provided it. Trump attorneys Cleta Mitchell and Eastman discussed the absence of such evidence in emails on Jan. 2 and Jan. 3.


Again, if their was fraud, why could Giuliani, Trump, and Kraken lawyers not find any real examples in all of their court cases?
 
stratosphere
Posts: 2094
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:49 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:

No one said he was illegitimate. He lost the popular vote. A majority of Americans did not want him. And, after DEMOCRATS upheld the Constitution, terrible as he was, he was still sworn in. No attempted coup, no gallows, no calls for fake electors, no demands that millions of votes were illegal. The Constitution worked as intended. Just like in 2020.

And he still lost the popular vote. Twice.


Bet he wouldn't lose it now....If you ran Trump against Biden today Biden wouldn't stand a chance. But to be honest I hope Trump doesn't try to run again he has done enough damage. I wouldn't mind seeing DeSantis throw his hat in the ring tho..


How about no more septuagenarians running anymore, period. I'd like to see that...


Absolutely agree...There should be age limits for both congress and the POTUS time to flush out the geriatric club. . Well my favorite for POTUS next go around is only 43
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 1434
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:00 pm

afcjets wrote:

No, of course he won't and why should he? One thing you can be sure of is if Trump runs, they will lie, cheat and steal and do everything in their power to stop him, including a real insurrection like they're accusing Trump of.


Note that this is the "ends justify the means" argument that characterizes all of conservative discourse. Our actions are justified because if we didn't do this to them, they would do it to us. And that presumption requires no evidence, it's just accepted as a basic premise.

It's actually really sad that this has become the basis of conservative reasoning. As mentioned earlier, 30 years of polluting the well of thought by conservative media.
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 1434
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:07 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Russia interfered, and quite possibly aided trump in 2016


No that didn't happen, it was a fair election.



To clarify, there was no fraud in the 2016 election, so in that sense it was fair, in the same sense that the 2020 election was fair.

However it's been factually established that the Russians mounted an extensive campaign to influence the 2016 election, and that influence was entirely pro-Trump. So in that sense there was interference and it did aid Trump. Those are the facts.
 
afcjets
Posts: 4090
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:12 pm

skyservice_330 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
One thing you can be sure of is if Trump runs, they will lie, cheat and steal and do everything in their power to stop him, including a real insurrection like they're accusing Trump of.


Cool story bro. Can I use your magic crystal ball to predict the future, once you are done with it?

Of course, all of it is just nothingburger whataboutism from those on this thread who don't want to discuss the ugly truth of Jan 6. So far we have had every 'what about?!' - BLM, ANTIFA, Hunter, Hillary, November midterms, inflation, gas prices ... and none are related to the Jan 6. events.


Not from me, unless you want to count the joke I made about Hillary being from Chicago. The ugliest truth about January 6 is the political weaponization of our DOJ and how nonviolent protestors who were invited into the Capitol by Capitol police were locked up in solitary confinement. Trump isn't as much a threat to the DNC machine and the swamp as his supporters, and that sends a clear message. Hopefully there will be an actual real investigation into 1/6. I believe the conspiracy theories, get over it.
 
FGITD
Posts: 2159
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:17 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
afcjets wrote:

No, of course he won't and why should he? One thing you can be sure of is if Trump runs, they will lie, cheat and steal and do everything in their power to stop him, including a real insurrection like they're accusing Trump of.


Note that this is the "ends justify the means" argument that characterizes all of conservative discourse. Our actions are justified because if we didn't do this to them, they would do it to us. And that presumption requires no evidence, it's just accepted as a basic premise.

It's actually really sad that this has become the basis of conservative reasoning. As mentioned earlier, 30 years of polluting the well of thought by conservative media.


That’s the problem. The argument usually comes down to “we didn’t do it, but even if we did it’s ok, because if they could do it, they would”
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 1434
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:27 pm

afcjets wrote:

The ugliest truth about January 6 is the political weaponization of our DOJ and how nonviolent protestors who were invited into the Capitol by Capitol police were locked up in solitary confinement.


This statement is categorically false. The Capitol building was locked by the police against entry by the protestors, who subsequently forcibly entered. This is well documented by many videos and reporting sources.

After entry was forced, overwhelmed and outnumbered Capitol police stood aside, to avoid personal injury, and instead tried to reason with the protestors to leave the building, and limit the damage they were doing.

So in summary:

1. The protestors were violent and broke into the building, injuring many Capitol officers.

2. No Capitol officer welcomed or invited the violent & unlawful entry into the building.

The constant resort to verifiable lies by commenters here is troubling, but is consistent with the verifiable lies put forth by Trump himself. I guess if you have no problem telling lies, you don't object to your leaders doing the same.
 
afcjets
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Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:02 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
This statement is categorically false. The Capitol building was locked by the police against entry by the protestors, who subsequently forcibly entered. This is well documented by many videos and reporting sources.

After entry was forced, overwhelmed and outnumbered Capitol police stood aside, to avoid personal injury, and instead tried to reason with the protestors to leave the building, and limit the damage they were doing.

So in summary:

1. The protestors were violent and broke into the building, injuring many Capitol officers.

2. No Capitol officer welcomed or invited the violent & unlawful entry into the building.

The constant resort to verifiable lies by commenters here is troubling, but is consistent with the verifiable lies put forth by Trump himself. I guess if you have no problem telling lies, you don't object to your leaders doing the same.


It is not categorically false. There was more than one entry point and this was not a coordinated effort (by Trump or his supporters at least). You can watch the videos below and believe and spin however you want.

"The optics are striking: Capitol police stood around as protesters entered the Senate chambers and made speeches. Dozens entered the Capitol building after literally having the door held open for them, and then merely walked in a single file line and took pictures.

In fact, the FBI has not charged any of the protesters with “insurrection” or “treason”; the most widespread investigation in U.S. history, according to the bureau, has been unable to turn up any evidence of a centralized plot to install Donald Trump.

“The FBI has found scant evidence that the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result, according to four current and former law enforcement officials,” Reuters reported.

“Though federal officials have arrested more than 570 alleged participants, the FBI at this point believes the violence was not centrally coordinated by far-right groups or prominent supporters of then-President Donald Trump, according to the sources, who have been either directly involved in or briefed regularly on the wide-ranging investigations,” the report continued.

“Ninety to ninety-five percent of these are one-off cases,” said a former senior law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. “Then you have five percent, maybe, of these militia groups that were more closely organized. But there was no grand scheme with Roger Stone and Alex Jones and all of these people to storm the Capitol and take hostages.”

The mainstream media has colored the January 6 riot an “insurrection” and an attempted “coup,” while claiming that U.S. Congressional members were in mortal danger. But there were disparate groups at the Capitol building on January 6: One was a group of Trump supporters who were let into the Capitol building and who were later charged with “trespassing” and “parading.” Then there were also fringe extremists who caused disruption and chaos, but not necessarily with the aim to install Donald Trump by force."

https://wethepeopleconvention.org/artic ... to-Capitol
 
FGITD
Posts: 2159
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:29 pm

That’s not a source. That’s a right wing extremist website.

Or does this seem like unbiased reporting?

“WTPC Calls for President to Invoke Limited Martial Law to Hold New Election to Protect our Vote, in Full Page Washington Times Ad, if Legislators, Courts and Congress Do Not Follow the Constitution”

See! The guys who did it say they totally didn’t do it! Disproved all the libs lies
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 1434
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:37 pm

afcjets wrote:

It is not categorically false. First off there was more than one entry point and this was not a coordinated effort (by Trump or his supporters at least). You can watch the videos below and believe and spin however you want.

"The optics are striking: Capitol police stood around as protesters entered the Senate chambers and made speeches. Dozens entered the Capitol building after literally having the door held open for them, and then merely walked in a single file line and took pictures.


This is false. All of the entrances of the building were locked, and all were forced. Officers were outnumbered and unable to stop the mob, so they moved back into the building or tried to maintain order. In the investigation of officer actions that day, none were charged with aiding and abetting the protestors, because it didn't happen.

afcjets wrote:

In fact, the FBI has not charged any of the protesters with “insurrection” or “treason”; the most widespread investigation in U.S. history, according to the bureau, has been unable to turn up any evidence of a centralized plot to install Donald Trump.


This is false. In January and June of 2022, members of the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys have been charged with sedition. Further, both groups have said they answered the call from Trump to converge on the Capitol, and they came armed, organized, and prepared to do so. The goal was to disrupt the electoral vote certification, which is why it was scheduled for January 6th. As Trump had repeatedly called upon supporters to advocate.

afcjets wrote:

“The FBI has found scant evidence that the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result, according to four current and former law enforcement officials,” Reuters reported.

“Though federal officials have arrested more than 570 alleged participants, the FBI at this point believes the violence was not centrally coordinated by far-right groups or prominent supporters of then-President Donald Trump, according to the sources, who have been either directly involved in or briefed regularly on the wide-ranging investigations,” the report continued.

“Ninety to ninety-five percent of these are one-off cases,” said a former senior law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. “Then you have five percent, maybe, of these militia groups that were more closely organized. But there was no grand scheme with Roger Stone and Alex Jones and all of these people to storm the Capitol and take hostages.”


This is true, but disengenous. The Trump team did not directly organize the riot in advance. But they did ask protestors to come to the Capitol on January 6, and they did then incite the crowd to march on the Capitol, and they did then publicly identify the VP as a traitor, and they did then imply that the election was being stolen with action needed, and they did not take action to stop the violence once it had begun, because it was their full intent.

afcjets wrote:

Then there were also fringe extremists who caused disruption and chaos, but not necessarily with the aim to install Donald Trump by force.


This is false. Almost all the arrested protestors have said they understood Trump's statements to be a call to action, to prevent the election certification from happening. That is why they stormed the building and sought out the chambers where the proceedings were taking place.

The effort to install Trump as president was separate from the riot, it was based on the VP rejecting the legal slates of electors. But when Pence refused, the riot ensued as a direct result.
Last edited by Avatar2go on Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
afcjets
Posts: 4090
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: January 6 Committee public presentations and hearings

Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:38 pm

FGITD wrote:
That’s not a source. That’s a right wing extremist website.

Or does this seem like unbiased reporting?

“WTPC Calls for President to Invoke Limited Martial Law to Hold New Election to Protect our Vote, in Full Page Washington Times Ad, if Legislators, Courts and Congress Do Not Follow the Constitution”

See! The guys who did it say they totally didn’t do it! Disproved all the libs lies


I've heard the same thing about Fox News. Nonetheless your point is irrelevant because they're quoting Reuters which is definitely not right wing.
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