Joe Biden is currently one of the least popular Presidents in US history, moreso than Trump

Virtual737 · Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:28 pm

ER757 wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
It's also hard to say that the ones with the highest approval numbers turned out to be the best presidents. Look at what George W. Bush managed to do with his 71.2%!

Approval ratings rarely have to do with the person in office, its about the current state of affairs. If things, like the economy are doing great, then approval ratings go up, if the economy sucks then the approval rating plummets - even if its the same person sitting at the helm.

With George W, he faced a lot of criticism when he entered office, 9/11 happened, everyone got emotional, approval went up and then when emotions went back to normal and Iraq started, public perception changed again.

^^ This right here. As the old saying goes "It's the economy, stupid." If gas and grocery prices were not through the roof his approval would be in the 50's. That issue was, is and always will be what matters most to the majority of people.

So what should he do do get inflation down? What should he do to get gas prices down? What should he do now to put the voters back on his side regardless of what impact it will have in the longer term?

Should Biden (or whatever person is in office at the time) do which would be seen as the right thing? Is he the problem or the fickle attitude of the voters? If the voters can't see past the real issues then they will always get what they deserve, even if that is another 4 years of Trump.

afcjets · Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:50 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Biden has the press on his side, little public criticism vs. Trump having hostile press.

https://www.uspresidentialelectionnews. ... -80-years/

What would it be like if the press was just as skeptical? Honestly, it feels as if middle class concerns have been ignored.

When people have to make tough financial decisions, it impacts their perceptions. I haven't heard any plans to aid refinery expansion, fracking, or other energy production.

Not to mention fertilizer production. But that is a political issue that seems to be ignored until we (USA) have a crisis.

Exactly, all stuff that Trump was already doing and Biden either pulled the plug on or announced he would stop, some on the first day of his presidency IIRC. Posts that say Biden's polls are so low only because of the high gas prices, related inflation and negative effects on the economy it caused and that's somehow beyond his control are the lamest excuses I can ever remember reading in this forum, and that's saying a lot.

ER757 · Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:14 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
ER757 wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
Approval ratings rarely have to do with the person in office, its about the current state of affairs. If things, like the economy are doing great, then approval ratings go up, if the economy sucks then the approval rating plummets - even if its the same person sitting at the helm.

With George W, he faced a lot of criticism when he entered office, 9/11 happened, everyone got emotional, approval went up and then when emotions went back to normal and Iraq started, public perception changed again.

^^ This right here. As the old saying goes "It's the economy, stupid." If gas and grocery prices were not through the roof his approval would be in the 50's. That issue was, is and always will be what matters most to the majority of people.

So what should he do do get inflation down? What should he do to get gas prices down? What should he do now to put the voters back on his side regardless of what impact it will have in the longer term?

Should Biden (or whatever person is in office at the time) do which would be seen as the right thing? Is he the problem or the fickle attitude of the voters? If the voters can't see past the real issues then they will always get what they deserve, even if that is another 4 years of Trump.

I don't have the answers as to what Biden should do as I am #1 not an economist and #2 not convinced there's much he can do. But the general public is going to have a poor opinion of the POTUS when the economy is in the tank regardless, always has, always will. And it's the top issue when they cast their ballots. As much as a lot of folks are outraged about things like no meaningful gun control, the possibility of Roe v Wade being overturned, the climate crisis, the issue they'll cast their ballots on isn't any of those. It's "gas is too expensive, food costs too much, the stock market is in freefall and my 401k is evaporating."

casinterest · Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:20 pm

ER757 wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
ER757 wrote:
^^ This right here. As the old saying goes "It's the economy, stupid." If gas and grocery prices were not through the roof his approval would be in the 50's. That issue was, is and always will be what matters most to the majority of people.

So what should he do do get inflation down? What should he do to get gas prices down? What should he do now to put the voters back on his side regardless of what impact it will have in the longer term?

Should Biden (or whatever person is in office at the time) do which would be seen as the right thing? Is he the problem or the fickle attitude of the voters? If the voters can't see past the real issues then they will always get what they deserve, even if that is another 4 years of Trump.

I don't have the answers as to what Biden should do as I am #1 not an economist and #2 not convinced there's much he can do. But the general public is going to have a poor opinion of the POTUS when the economy is in the tank regardless, always has, always will. And it's the top issue when they cast their ballots. As much as a lot of folks are outraged about things like no meaningful gun control, the possibility of Roe v Wade being overturned, the climate crisis, the issue they'll cast their ballots on isn't any of those. It's "gas is too expensive, food costs too much, the stock market is in freefall and my 401k is evaporating."

What's sad is how much of the US pays no attention to the fact that the whole world is in the same boat right now.
Wither way though, when gas gets cheap, loans cost more and job growth stalls, will these same folks be more upset or happier that the FED is actually doing what it is supposed to do by raising interest rates?

zakuivcustom · Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:46 pm

ER757 wrote:
I don't have the answers as to what Biden should do as I am #1 not an economist and #2 not convinced there's much he can do. But the general public is going to have a poor opinion of the POTUS when the economy is in the tank regardless, always has, always will. And it's the top issue when they cast their ballots. As much as a lot of folks are outraged about things like no meaningful gun control, the possibility of Roe v Wade being overturned, the climate crisis, the issue they'll cast their ballots on isn't any of those. It's "gas is too expensive, food costs too much, the stock market is in freefall and my 401k is evaporating."

Well, having that "culture war" sideshow in addition to the economy certainly doesn't help.

My other thoughts? All the complain from GOP politicians about prices - what is the govt supposed to do? Impose price control? Isn't that socialism?

Final note? The economy itself is not even actually "bad" per se...it was way overheated but you don't see layoffs and jobless rate start to skyrocket, you don't see foreclosures left and right, and a LOT of the problems right now rooted from decades of dumb US policy. Supply Chain? Nobody told them to depend on PRC who's still dreaming of "covid zero". Gas? Nobody told US to basically just buy oil from everyone else and export their own oil. Inflation? It's bound to happen sooner or later with an artificially low interest rate.

Just hope that US doesn't go into "lost decades" Japanese style...

StarAC17 · Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:45 pm

lightsaber wrote:
What would it be like if the press was just as skeptical? Honestly, it feels as if middle class concerns have been ignored.

When people have to make tough financial decisions, it impacts their perceptions. I haven't heard any plans to aid refinery expansion, fracking, or other energy production.

Not to mention fertilizer production. But that is a political issue that seems to be ignored until we (USA) have a crisis.

Middle class concerns have been ignored for the last 2-3 decades and the democrats aren't the party of the working class anymore and there seems to be a lot of hostility from many democrats to the working class in favour of the coastal elites.

In 2020 the biggest red flag to me was not that Biden barely won the electoral college (the aggregate in 5 or so states was 70,000 votees) but that Blacks and Latinos voted less for the democrats in areas that are usually democratic strongholds.

They are going to stay home or vote for the GOP in November. Poor turnout is a sign of cynicism and much of the issues the democrats are running on are ones that are important but aren't more important than the economy. Furthermore this Covid recovery has been K shaped. The professional managerial class is doing great but much of the working class is not and is regressing. Whoever wins the working class wins congress and the White House. The democrats are going to get throttled in November that 1994 is going to look nice and if someone has seen that the democrats are not all talk and little action isn't going to be vote shamed.

Also much of the school and business closures affected working class individuals were put in place by democrats. Does that make them wrong, not necessarily but much of those lockdowns affected the working class far more than the professional class. Also where are the democrats on ending the war on drugs or incentivizing trades over a 4 year degree. I can assure you that there will be a GOP nominee that will legalize pot and give grants to in demand trades and probably win or do well in 2024.

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/ ... ing-class/

This is not just an American phenomenon. Here in Ontario we re-elected a conservative government by a bigger margin for very similar reasons. The two liberal parties simply attacked Doug Ford for everything including Covid which he did a decent job on. However private sector unions all sided with the conservatives because our conservative party spoke to them and said we will do what we can to put you to work. The liberal parties did not and that included the NDP which aligns with Bernie and we have a conservative government for another 4 years.

ACDC8 · Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:46 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
So what should he do do get inflation down? What should he do to get gas prices down? What should he do now to put the voters back on his side regardless of what impact it will have in the longer term?

Usually the way it works in Canada, is that the political party in office waits just before election time and then they start handing out all the freebies and changing things - the average voter has a very short term memory.

NIKV69 · Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:51 pm

seb146 wrote:

Even if Biden were to, somehow, get gas prices back to $2 per gallon, Republicans would still be screaming "on this one day he was the least popular!"

Interesting how polls didn't matter 2016-2020, but they matter now.....

How? He is reason for this mess we are in. He killed the pipe line and said we are getting rid of fossil fuels. I don't get how you can see the total disaster this country is right now and still go into Identity politics. November is going to be very ugly and you won't be able to blame the other side. Not even close.

phugoid1982 · Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:15 pm

Blame CNN fawning all over him and the rest of MSM colluding to cover up the Hunter Biden's scandal and the optics of the shady deals with Ukraine helping to elect him illegitimately. Bernie would've trounced his sorry dementia ridden self had he had the backbone to go low as is unfortunately required in politics in the primaries. I can't attest to whether Trump would've beaten him if the scandal had come out but it merits discussion regardless of Trump's BS fraud claims. Bernie is still sharp as ever even after a heart attack and Biden can't even read off cue cards. Not to mention the endless pandering to the crazy woke mob and escalating the war in Ukraine to benefit defense contractors. And yet, he takes no responsibility for failures and consistently blames convenient bogeyman Russia/Putin for his failures. Trump may have been a clown and horrible but at least in some sick way he entertained me. Biden is just a career politicians

zakuivcustom · Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:48 pm

phugoid1982 wrote:
Blame CNN fawning all over him and the rest of MSM colluding to cover up the Hunter Biden's scandal and the optics of the shady deals with Ukraine helping to elect him illegitimately. Bernie would've trounced his sorry dementia ridden self had he had the backbone to go low as is unfortunately required in politics in the primaries. I can't attest to whether Trump would've beaten him if the scandal had come out but it merits discussion regardless of Trump's BS fraud claims. Bernie is still sharp as ever even after a heart attack and Biden can't even read off cue cards. Not to mention the endless pandering to the crazy woke mob and escalating the war in Ukraine to benefit defense contractors. And yet, he takes no responsibility for failures and consistently blames convenient bogeyman Russia/Putin for his failures. Trump may have been a clown and horrible but at least in some sick way he entertained me. Biden is just a career politicians

Except Bernie will never win the primary with his lack of appeal to minorities especially African-Americans. Now, TBH Biden then went overboard and more to appeal to Af-Am while ignoring the like of Hispanics, and to this day, still does that. All the talk about "historical first" as if Hispanics are not also (somewhat of) minority and has issues that they care about also.

StarAC17 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
What would it be like if the press was just as skeptical? Honestly, it feels as if middle class concerns have been ignored.

When people have to make tough financial decisions, it impacts their perceptions. I haven't heard any plans to aid refinery expansion, fracking, or other energy production.

Not to mention fertilizer production. But that is a political issue that seems to be ignored until we (USA) have a crisis.

Middle class concerns have been ignored for the last 2-3 decades and the democrats aren't the party of the working class anymore and there seems to be a lot of hostility from many democrats to the working class in favour of the coastal elites.

In 2020 the biggest red flag to me was not that Biden barely won the electoral college (the aggregate in 5 or so states was 70,000 votees) but that Blacks and Latinos voted less for the democrats in areas that are usually democratic strongholds.

They are going to stay home or vote for the GOP in November. Poor turnout is a sign of cynicism and much of the issues the democrats are running on are ones that are important but aren't more important than the economy. Furthermore this Covid recovery has been K shaped. The professional managerial class is doing great but much of the working class is not and is regressing. Whoever wins the working class wins congress and the White House. The democrats are going to get throttled in November that 1994 is going to look nice and if someone has seen that the democrats are not all talk and little action isn't going to be vote shamed.

Also much of the school and business closures affected working class individuals were put in place by democrats. Does that make them wrong, not necessarily but much of those lockdowns affected the working class far more than the professional class. Also where are the democrats on ending the war on drugs or incentivizing trades over a 4 year degree. I can assure you that there will be a GOP nominee that will legalize pot and give grants to in demand trades and probably win or do well in 2024.

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/ ... ing-class/

This is not just an American phenomenon. Here in Ontario we re-elected a conservative government by a bigger margin for very similar reasons. The two liberal parties simply attacked Doug Ford for everything including Covid which he did a decent job on. However private sector unions all sided with the conservatives because our conservative party spoke to them and said we will do what we can to put you to work. The liberal parties did not and that included the NDP which aligns with Bernie and we have a conservative government for another 4 years.

This exactly. Dems ignored the working class and basically shift the focus to suburbia and the "educated".

Well, I will say this - all the crime issues are not going to win the Dems a lot of suburbia votes. Education favors Dems but even the single issue that could win some voters over aka student loan forgiveness, Biden is wishy-washy and is non-commital.

Then there is the fact that inflation still hurts suburbia "professional class" voter even if it doesn't affect them as much as the true "working class".

Then there is the fact that the "professional class" Dems appeal to are mainly the younger Gen Y/Millennials, with their well known low turnout...

Avatar2go · Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:52 pm

phugoid1982 wrote:
Blame CNN fawning all over him and the rest of MSM colluding to cover up the Hunter Biden's scandal and the optics of the shady deals with Ukraine helping to elect him illegitimately. Bernie would've trounced his sorry dementia ridden self had he had the backbone to go low as is unfortunately required in politics in the primaries. I can't attest to whether Trump would've beaten him if the scandal had come out but it merits discussion regardless of Trump's BS fraud claims. Bernie is still sharp as ever even after a heart attack and Biden can't even read off cue cards. Not to mention the endless pandering to the crazy woke mob and escalating the war in Ukraine to benefit defense contractors. And yet, he takes no responsibility for failures and consistently blames convenient bogeyman Russia/Putin for his failures. Trump may have been a clown and horrible but at least in some sick way he entertained me. Biden is just a career politicians

A clear overdose of Fox News. Symptoms align 1:1. Detox would be beneficial and is recommended.

AirWorthy99 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:54 am

People voted for Biden because they thought they were voting for a moderate centrist who was going to unite this country.

Instead they got a far leftist administration hell bent on further dividing this nation.

The result, worst inflation in 40 years that have made Americans poorer and very negative about the future of this country which is recession bound with their political leadership clueless and just getting crisis after crisis without no way of dealing with the issues. They only love to talk about things people dont care such as January 6th and opposing popular Repuvlican governors.

Democrats dont know how to govern, they are great at being the opposition party. Last time they were interested in governing was during Bill Clinton’s first term. Now they just dont care, only power at all costs.

2022 is going to be bad and 2024 worse when the recession is already in full gear.

Interesting times ahead, but for those of us who said this back in 2020, a very loud “I told you so!”

Kent350787 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:33 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
People voted for Biden because they thought they were voting for a moderate centrist who was going to unite this country.

Instead they got a far leftist administration hell bent on further dividing this nation.

Does this make sense in the US context? It's nonsensical to those of us outside the US. Biden appears to be very much a soft centre-right moderate.

On the detail, I'm unclear on how the adminsitration is further dividing the country, where division had been actively supported by the previous adminsitration. Some examples would be helpful.

SL1200MK2 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:10 am

Kent350787 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
People voted for Biden because they thought they were voting for a moderate centrist who was going to unite this country.

Instead they got a far leftist administration hell bent on further dividing this nation.

Does this make sense in the US context? It's nonsensical to those of us outside the US. Biden appears to be very much a soft centre-right moderate.

On the detail, I'm unclear on how the adminsitration is further dividing the country, where division had been actively supported by the previous adminsitration. Some examples would be helpful.

While I agree with you, do you really think you’re going to have a productive discussion with them?

Kent350787 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:09 am

SL1200MK2 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
People voted for Biden because they thought they were voting for a moderate centrist who was going to unite this country.

Instead they got a far leftist administration hell bent on further dividing this nation.

Does this make sense in the US context? It's nonsensical to those of us outside the US. Biden appears to be very much a soft centre-right moderate.

On the detail, I'm unclear on how the adminsitration is further dividing the country, where division had been actively supported by the previous adminsitration. Some examples would be helpful.

While I agree with you, do you really think you’re going to have a productive discussion with them?

I felt it was worth asking the question, just one more time.

I still stand by my assessment as "soft centre-right moderate". He seems a like a nice guy, but his adminstration hasn't been forcefully on the front foot with the external pressures impacting cost of living in the country, hence the current Trump level approval rating.

For the country, I hope the Biden administration can get useful measures implemented.

Virtual737 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:03 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
People voted for Biden because they thought they were voting for a moderate centrist who was going to unite this country.

Instead they got a far leftist administration hell bent on further dividing this nation.

For that to be true, the US centre, from the perspective of GOP, must be so far skewed to the right compared to what the rest of the world views as centre,

"hell bent on further dividing this nation" - I almost spilled my tea when I read that. How could anyone write that within 1000 years of a Trump administration, let alone when he's still bleating bullshit.

casinterest · Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:26 am

Virtual737 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
People voted for Biden because they thought they were voting for a moderate centrist who was going to unite this country.

Instead they got a far leftist administration hell bent on further dividing this nation.

For that to be true, the US centre, from the perspective of GOP, must be so far skewed to the right compared to what the rest of the world views as centre,

"hell bent on further dividing this nation" - I almost spilled my tea when I read that. How could anyone write that within 1000 years of a Trump administration, let alone when he's still bleating bullshit.

The far right hates government so much in the US, that they don't want anyone to be successful in making it work. It may unfortunately take another trip through bad Senators and representatives from the GOP to remind people that their fundamental rights are non-existent under the GOP,.

Reinhardt · Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:43 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
People voted for Biden because they thought they were voting for a moderate centrist who was going to unite this country.

Instead they got a far leftist administration hell bent on further dividing this nation.

The result, worst inflation in 40 years that have made Americans poorer and very negative about the future of this country which is recession bound with their political leadership clueless and just getting crisis after crisis without no way of dealing with the issues. They only love to talk about things people dont care such as January 6th and opposing popular Repuvlican governors.

Democrats dont know how to govern, they are great at being the opposition party. Last time they were interested in governing was during Bill Clinton’s first term. Now they just dont care, only power at all costs.

2022 is going to be bad and 2024 worse when the recession is already in full gear.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Interesting times ahead, but for those of us who said this back in 2020, a very loud “I told you so!”

How you can sit there and write that with a straight face with what the GOP have done since he's been voted in I have absoutely no idea.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
far leftist administration

Again hilarious. He's moderate centre by any worlds standards and even by US.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Democrats dont know how to govern, they are great at being the opposition party.

GOP are 2 Dems are doing a grand job of voting down just about every peice of legislation going all the while pushing their own agendas (e.g Abortion) to bring the country back to the 1800's. They are quite clearly (and I'm not American - I just watch cspan hearings and senate debates) trying everything they can to cripple the administration and then blame everything on them for not doing anything. Not the first time - they did it throughout Obama's last term. One of the biggest faults of the US governmental setup, the "founders" screwed that up.

Of course it's all Biden's fault, despite inheriting lots of issues from Trump from Covid to Ukraine to Afghanistan. Deny deny deny, blame the other guy. It's the same playbook Trump used and Boris Johnson is using in the UK - populists everywhere.

GOP won't even properly acknowledge or take part in the January 6th committee and are claiming it as a sham. Actually all the better, nobody needs Jim where's my jacket Jordan anywhere near a select committee hearing. So far it's almost entirely factual - lets hope there are some serious outcomes with some serious consequences for those involved.

Aaron747 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:55 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
People voted for Biden because they thought they were voting for a moderate centrist who was going to unite this country.

Instead they got a far leftist administration hell bent on further dividing this nation.

The result, worst inflation in 40 years that have made Americans poorer and very negative about the future of this country which is recession bound with their political leadership clueless and just getting crisis after crisis without no way of dealing with the issues. They only love to talk about things people dont care such as January 6th and opposing popular Repuvlican governors.

Democrats dont know how to govern, they are great at being the opposition party. Last time they were interested in governing was during Bill Clinton’s first term. Now they just dont care, only power at all costs.

2022 is going to be bad and 2024 worse when the recession is already in full gear.

Interesting times ahead, but for those of us who said this back in 2020, a very loud “I told you so!”

This is seriously one of the silliest takes this year. I've been back in Japan a week and everyone's worried about inflation and the world economy - just like in any other G20 nation. Nobody's blaming Biden because that's nonsensical. Everyone understands the last 2.5 years set this situation up, with the BS in Ukraine as icing on the cake.

StarAC17 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:40 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
Again hilarious. He's moderate centre by any worlds standards and even by US.

We just re-elected a conservative government in Ontario that is left of the Biden administration.

zakuivcustom · Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:00 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
People voted for Biden because they thought they were voting for a moderate centrist who was going to unite this country.

Instead they got a far leftist administration hell bent on further dividing this nation.

The result, worst inflation in 40 years that have made Americans poorer and very negative about the future of this country which is recession bound with their political leadership clueless and just getting crisis after crisis without no way of dealing with the issues. They only love to talk about things people dont care such as January 6th and opposing popular Repuvlican governors.

Democrats dont know how to govern, they are great at being the opposition party. Last time they were interested in governing was during Bill Clinton’s first term. Now they just dont care, only power at all costs.

2022 is going to be bad and 2024 worse when the recession is already in full gear.

Interesting times ahead, but for those of us who said this back in 2020, a very loud “I told you so!”

Lol Biden is a far leftist? Last I check my tax haven't increase, govt haven't totally taken any of my properties and also nationalized everything from healthcare to oil, etc. Actually if US nationalized oil they could easily implement price control (subsidized with tax dollar of course) and we won't have high gas price...

And Republicans know how to govern? They just opposed everything anyway with zero solution of their own...

The only argument you can make is that Biden was elected b/c people hated Trump more, and that's a true statement.

Ultimately, will we have a recession? Probably. Will things get better in 2023? Most likely. Of course, GOP will claim credit of the latter even though it's purely part of economic cycle.

skyservice_330 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:14 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
The only argument you can make is that Biden was elected b/c people hated Trump more, and that's a true statement.

And the argument is itself a pretty big self-own by those that make it...

Biden is awful, the worst, a failure they say.
And the only reason he got elected is because he wasn't Trump, they say.
Ergo, in the eyes of the electorate Trump must be worse then Biden - he is MORE awful than Biden. And Biden, we are told, is the absolute worst.

... and then they line up to support Trump.

'Your guy is awful and only got elected because he was less awful than my guy. Now hold my beer while I hold a sign for my guy.'

:boggled:

StarAC17 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:56 pm

casinterest wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
People voted for Biden because they thought they were voting for a moderate centrist who was going to unite this country.

Instead they got a far leftist administration hell bent on further dividing this nation.

For that to be true, the US centre, from the perspective of GOP, must be so far skewed to the right compared to what the rest of the world views as centre,

"hell bent on further dividing this nation" - I almost spilled my tea when I read that. How could anyone write that within 1000 years of a Trump administration, let alone when he's still bleating bullshit.

The far right hates government so much in the US, that they don't want anyone to be successful in making it work. It may unfortunately take another trip through bad Senators and representatives from the GOP to remind people that their fundamental rights are non-existent under the GOP,.

The right wing claims government doesn't work, then get elected and prove it.

phugoid1982 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:58 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
phugoid1982 wrote:
Blame CNN fawning all over him and the rest of MSM colluding to cover up the Hunter Biden's scandal and the optics of the shady deals with Ukraine helping to elect him illegitimately. Bernie would've trounced his sorry dementia ridden self had he had the backbone to go low as is unfortunately required in politics in the primaries. I can't attest to whether Trump would've beaten him if the scandal had come out but it merits discussion regardless of Trump's BS fraud claims. Bernie is still sharp as ever even after a heart attack and Biden can't even read off cue cards. Not to mention the endless pandering to the crazy woke mob and escalating the war in Ukraine to benefit defense contractors. And yet, he takes no responsibility for failures and consistently blames convenient bogeyman Russia/Putin for his failures. Trump may have been a clown and horrible but at least in some sick way he entertained me. Biden is just a career politicians

A clear overdose of Fox News. Symptoms align 1:1. Detox would be beneficial and is recommended.

I'm not some crazy Bible thumping gun nut. I'm a sensible liberal, minority, atheist and vehement supporter of gun reform laws. I've said it before on this forum. I hate Fox News, but I loathe CNN more because of their sanctimonious "We're the only legit network" out there. Biden is a failure as President. Most Americans think so. He was only" selected" to oust Trump at all costs. He's just as corrupt, more brain dead, and out of touch with the needs of the American people. The two party divisive establishment politics of this country has to end otherwise we'll end up having another Civil War. At the end of the day most republicans and democrats have the same concerns. It's just that both parties are so obsessed with votes and power they pit them against each other.

phugoid1982 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:03 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
phugoid1982 wrote:

Except Bernie will never win the primary with his lack of appeal to minorities especially African-Americans. Now, TBH Biden then went overboard and more to appeal to Af-Am while ignoring the like of Hispanics, and to this day, still does that. All the talk about "historical first" as if Hispanics are not also (somewhat of) minority and has issues that they care about also.

The whole Ketanji Brown Jackson fiasco is evidence of this. I had no problem with her credentials but Biden outwardly saying he was going to nominate a person of color was a foolish, pandering move that only alienated the electorate further

seb146 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:49 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
People voted for Biden because they thought they were voting for a moderate centrist who was going to unite this country.

Instead they got a far leftist administration hell bent on further dividing this nation.

No. People voted for Biden because he was not the other guy. Biden is a centrist. He is a safe choice. The ones dividing this country fly MAGA flags, wear MAGA hats and insist the election was stolen because MAGA. The ones dividing this country throw their head in the sand and scream support for the insurrectionists who tried to hang Pence and Pelosi for following the Constitution. The ones dividing the country are banning books and cancelling free speech. Telling people they can not be gay or black or Muslim. THOSE are the people dividing this country.

seb146 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:00 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Even if Biden were to, somehow, get gas prices back to $2 per gallon, Republicans would still be screaming "on this one day he was the least popular!"

Interesting how polls didn't matter 2016-2020, but they matter now.....

How? He is reason for this mess we are in. He killed the pipe line and said we are getting rid of fossil fuels. I don't get how you can see the total disaster this country is right now and still go into Identity politics. November is going to be very ugly and you won't be able to blame the other side. Not even close.

What pipeline? Keystone? That was killed by TC Energy? Because NO ONE but TC Energy wanted it? THAT pipeline? That would have run to an international refinery to put oil on the international market and not exclusively American markets? THAT pipeline?

This country is in a "total disaster" because MAGAs are still out there insisting the November election, the one coming up in five months, is rigged. They are training gun toting thugs to reject ballots from anyone other than MAGA candidates.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/0 ... s-00035758
https://madison.com/news/local/govt-and ... 9eb00.html

But, yeah, totally blame Biden.....

AirWorthy99 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:05 pm

WOW ok, I admit I am biased, votef against him. So why many of those who voted for Biden see him negatively? Is it because they are wrong to blame him for this debacle?

Its because they were expecting better, not worse than Trump, thats why they voted for him.

You all can be apologists foe Biden, but the truth is hard to spin and lay blame elsewhere but Biden since he and his party are solely in charge of DC, both legilative and executive, they themselves alone are doing this since January 2021.

The have full control and all the responsability for all happening today and Americans arent stupid.

Aaron747 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:41 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
WOW ok, I admit I am biased, votef against him. So why many of those who voted for Biden see him negatively? Is it because they are wrong to blame him for this debacle?

Its because they were expecting better, not worse than Trump, thats why they voted for him.

You all can be apologists foe Biden, but the truth is hard to spin and lay blame elsewhere but Biden since he and his party are solely in charge of DC, both legilative and executive, they themselves alone are doing this since January 2021.

The have full control and all the responsability for all happening today and Americans arent stupid.

Ignorance leads to a lot of jumpy conclusions. In a good average year, what 30-some percent of Americans travel abroad? That suggests most can only understand the global economy through a domestic lens unless they have specialized experience/knowledge with it.

The fact is every WH takes credit for good economies, and plays CYA when things go shit, but at the end of the day, the WH and POTUS don't have nearly as much authority to influence the economy as they believe they can. POTUS is essentially an economic cheerleading position in PR terms. And the media of course plays up that influence because it makes for cheap digestible soundbites.

Kent350787 · Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:49 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Ignorance leads to a lot of jumpy conclusions. In a good average year, what 30-some percent of Americans travel abroad? That suggests most can only understand the global economy through a domestic lens unless they have specialized experience/knowledge with it.

I absolutely agree with your general point, but the number is between 20 and 30% and around half of those visit Mexico and 20% Canada.

NIKV69 · Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:48 am

seb146 wrote:

This country is in a "total disaster" because MAGAs are still out there insisting the November election, the one coming up in five months, is rigged. They are training gun toting thugs to reject ballots from anyone other than MAGA candidates.

....

It's statements like these that make everyone understand how out of touch you are as well as the Democratic party. It's also why Biden has done nothing to help the current state of affairs and why both the 2022 and 2024 elections will be brutal for the Dems. Keep up the good work.

marcelh · Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:05 am

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

This country is in a "total disaster" because MAGAs are still out there insisting the November election, the one coming up in five months, is rigged. They are training gun toting thugs to reject ballots from anyone other than MAGA candidates.

....

It's statements like these that make everyone understand how out of touch you are as well as the Democratic party. It's also why Biden has done nothing to help the current state of affairs and why both the 2022 and 2024 elections will be brutal for the Dems. Keep up the good work.

“Out of touch”? I suggest you should listen to the NYT podcast “The Daily” from May26th. It gives a nice insight in the way the Republicans are trying to interfere with the upcoming elections in 2022 and 2024. As an European, my conclusion is it’s clear we have to become less dependent on the US, especially on defense and geopolitics.

marcelh · Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:21 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:

The have full control and all the responsability for all happening today and Americans arent stupid.

The US government hasn’t the full control in what is happening around the globe. That ship has sailed and the US is just as vulnerable for global issues as other countries. The US isn’t the big power house anymore it used to be.

Reinhardt · Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:22 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
The have full control and all the responsability for all happening today and Americans arent stupid.

Except they don't, because as others have said the US doesn't control what happens around the world and is not isolated from world events. So not not everything that happens that affects American's can be put at the door of the president. And secondly, Biden doesn't have a majority in the house and as we've already seen and said the GOP is voting down everything and pushing through it's own agenda as if they are in power. Mitch McConnell is an expert at this and he's been doing it for decades.

Sure we all look forward to the GOP being back in power, stripping even more rights from individuals (like Aborton) and having to listen to more complete and utter insanity from the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert. They bring utter shame to the name Senator, to the states they come from and your country.

You don't like Biden, fine. You don't like the Dems fine. But seriously, you would instead go out and vote for the GOP with those folks running and having a serious impact on your society? That I just don't understand. It's not a binary choice you know (although maybe it seems like it).

LabQuest · Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:13 am

Reinhardt wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
The have full control and all the responsability for all happening today and Americans arent stupid.

Except they don't, because as others have said the US doesn't control what happens around the world and is not isolated from world events. So not not everything that happens that affects American's can be put at the door of the president. And secondly, Biden doesn't have a majority in the house and as we've already seen and said the GOP is voting down everything and pushing through it's own agenda as if they are in power. Mitch McConnell is an expert at this and he's been doing it for decades.

Sure we all look forward to the GOP being back in power, stripping even more rights from individuals (like Aborton) and having to listen to more complete and utter insanity from the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert. They bring utter shame to the name Senator, to the states they come from and your country.

You don't like Biden, fine. You don't like the Dems fine. But seriously, you would instead go out and vote for the GOP with those folks running and having a serious impact on your society? That I just don't understand. It's not a binary choice you know (although maybe it seems like it).

I think you should brush up on your civics and check your facts.Multiple incorrect statements here.

Reinhardt · Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:02 am

LabQuest wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
The have full control and all the responsability for all happening today and Americans arent stupid.

Except they don't, because as others have said the US doesn't control what happens around the world and is not isolated from world events. So not not everything that happens that affects American's can be put at the door of the president. And secondly, Biden doesn't have a majority in the house and as we've already seen and said the GOP is voting down everything and pushing through it's own agenda as if they are in power. Mitch McConnell is an expert at this and he's been doing it for decades.

Sure we all look forward to the GOP being back in power, stripping even more rights from individuals (like Aborton) and having to listen to more complete and utter insanity from the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert. They bring utter shame to the name Senator, to the states they come from and your country.

You don't like Biden, fine. You don't like the Dems fine. But seriously, you would instead go out and vote for the GOP with those folks running and having a serious impact on your society? That I just don't understand. It's not a binary choice you know (although maybe it seems like it).

I think you should brush up on your civics and check your facts.Multiple incorrect statements here.

Well I'm not American, I just follow things. Maybe you can fact check me then. Or maybe it's just use of language.

LabQuest · Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:11 am

Reinhardt wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:

Except they don't, because as others have said the US doesn't control what happens around the world and is not isolated from world events. So not not everything that happens that affects American's can be put at the door of the president. And secondly, Biden doesn't have a majority in the house and as we've already seen and said the GOP is voting down everything and pushing through it's own agenda as if they are in power. Mitch McConnell is an expert at this and he's been doing it for decades.

Sure we all look forward to the GOP being back in power, stripping even more rights from individuals (like Aborton) and having to listen to more complete and utter insanity from the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert. They bring utter shame to the name Senator, to the states they come from and your country.

You don't like Biden, fine. You don't like the Dems fine. But seriously, you would instead go out and vote for the GOP with those folks running and having a serious impact on your society? That I just don't understand. It's not a binary choice you know (although maybe it seems like it).

I think you should brush up on your civics and check your facts.Multiple incorrect statements here.

Well I'm not American, I just follow things. Maybe you can fact check me then. Or maybe it's just use of language.

The Democrats have control of the House, Senate, and the Presidency. Neither of those people you mentioned are Senators.

LCDFlight · Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:36 pm

Biden has been incompetent for DECADES.

His team’s case is they want to “remake” American society centered around a messianic view of the federal government, seeing government planners themselves as the upcoming messiah.

Depending how you count it, 5-10 trillion was thrown at Covid in the US. It has upset the economy. It put average people on a very rapid railroad to insolvency. How will they pay rent in 5 years… don’t ask me. That is eating away at average people’s mental health right now.

lugie · Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:41 pm

LabQuest wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

I think you should brush up on your civics and check your facts.Multiple incorrect statements here.

Well I'm not American, I just follow things. Maybe you can fact check me then. Or maybe it's just use of language.

The Democrats have control of the House, Senate, and the Presidency. Neither of those people you mentioned are Senators.

You're right but also kinda wrong.

They may have control of the trifecta but they don't have 60 seats in the Senate making it all but impossible for them to pass any meaningful legislation that can't be packaged as reconciliation bills.
All that because some time in November of 2008 Republicans decided that their strategy going forward was going to be obstructing any and every attempt at legislation coming from the Democratic Party, even though the American public has expressed (had back then and most recently did again in 2018/20) that they prefer Dem policy proposals over GOP obstructionism and white identity politics.

Can't give Dems a win on Build Back Better despite it being popular with Americans because CRT or something.

Regarding inflation: It's always GOP Congresspeople who completely oppose any actions that aim at, for example, reining in corporate greed and make gasoline more affordable. Wonder why that is.

seb146 · Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:11 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Biden has been incompetent for DECADES.

His team’s case is they want to “remake” American society centered around a messianic view of the federal government, seeing government planners themselves as the upcoming messiah.

Depending how you count it, 5-10 trillion was thrown at Covid in the US. It has upset the economy. It put average people on a very rapid railroad to insolvency. How will they pay rent in 5 years… don’t ask me. That is eating away at average people’s mental health right now.

Covid didn't begin under Biden. We all saw this coming months away. Nothing was done about it by the previous administration. But, somehow, it is Biden's fault. Rent was going up while wages were stagnant under the previous administration. But it is Biden's fault. Mental health care was non-existent under the previous administration, but it is Biden's fault.

See a pattern here?

LCDFlight · Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:25 pm

seb146 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Biden has been incompetent for DECADES.

His team’s case is they want to “remake” American society centered around a messianic view of the federal government, seeing government planners themselves as the upcoming messiah.

Depending how you count it, 5-10 trillion was thrown at Covid in the US. It has upset the economy. It put average people on a very rapid railroad to insolvency. How will they pay rent in 5 years… don’t ask me. That is eating away at average people’s mental health right now.

Covid didn't begin under Biden. We all saw this coming months away. Nothing was done about it by the previous administration. But, somehow, it is Biden's fault. Rent was going up while wages were stagnant under the previous administration. But it is Biden's fault. Mental health care was non-existent under the previous administration, but it is Biden's fault.

See a pattern here?

Consumer sentiment tanked about 2 weeks after Biden was inaugurated. It was 82 in October 2020, before the election. And it is 50 now. People can’t afford to buy groceries. The government printed so much money, people will need to live 2 families to every apartment, the dollar is worth so little. That’s the pattern I see.

Biden’s role in this in 2021 was unbelievably extensive. The policies enacted, extended and proposed were eye-popping. Mind blowing. And here we are.

StarAC17 · Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:23 pm

phugoid1982 wrote:
Blame CNN fawning all over him and the rest of MSM colluding to cover up the Hunter Biden's scandal and the optics of the shady deals with Ukraine helping to elect him illegitimately. Bernie would've trounced his sorry dementia ridden self had he had the backbone to go low as is unfortunately required in politics in the primaries. I can't attest to whether Trump would've beaten him if the scandal had come out but it merits discussion regardless of Trump's BS fraud claims. Bernie is still sharp as ever even after a heart attack and Biden can't even read off cue cards. Not to mention the endless pandering to the crazy woke mob and escalating the war in Ukraine to benefit defense contractors. And yet, he takes no responsibility for failures and consistently blames convenient bogeyman Russia/Putin for his failures. Trump may have been a clown and horrible but at least in some sick way he entertained me. Biden is just a career politicians

I am not an American but I have tons of conservative friends up here in Canada and many actually like Bernie and if they were American would have backed him over Trump. Bernie would have beaten Trump in 2016 and 2020 and he would have gotten the minority populations on his side. He is essential and doesn't talk about personal nonsense and has no time for it, IIRC one of Hillary attack ads on Bernie has woke language that has nothing to do with anything. For many suburban people this comes off as unpolite and standoffish but to many people who work and just want to get through life someone like Bernie is a breath of fresh air.

If you generally ask people why they hate the democrats its not because of the issues especially economics. Its the cultural nonsense that not many people really like having forced on them. Covid mandates made this worth especially with the hypocrisy of democratic officials in the last 2 years.
Granted I don't want social conservatives forcing their agenda on everyone else which is what the GOP happens to support.

zakuivcustom wrote:
Except Bernie will never win the primary with his lack of appeal to minorities especially African-Americans. Now, TBH Biden then went overboard and more to appeal to Af-Am while ignoring the like of Hispanics, and to this day, still does that. All the talk about "historical first" as if Hispanics are not also (somewhat of) minority and has issues that they care about also.

I think Bernie would have won them over. However the current crop of democrats are doing just fine with minorities . :roll:

Every election minority support for the democrats drop in a significant manner because the democrats basically say. We're not those guys and we support BLM, and other minority interests while doing nothing for minorities in their day to day lives. Example being defund the police. No black person who lives in the projects wants less police, they want reform but cops are important. America's problem with cops isn't that there are too many of them. Its that they don't train them as proper professionals.

seb146 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
People voted for Biden because they thought they were voting for a moderate centrist who was going to unite this country.

Instead they got a far leftist administration hell bent on further dividing this nation.

No. People voted for Biden because he was not the other guy. Biden is a centrist. He is a safe choice. The ones dividing this country fly MAGA flags, wear MAGA hats and insist the election was stolen because MAGA. The ones dividing this country throw their head in the sand and scream support for the insurrectionists who tried to hang Pence and Pelosi for following the Constitution. The ones dividing the country are banning books and cancelling free speech. Telling people they can not be gay or black or Muslim. THOSE are the people dividing this country.

Most people voted for Biden because in the 4 years of Trump because much of what he campaigned on he failed to follow through on, also his handling oh Covid did piss a lot of people off.
Had Covid19 not happened or Trump took it seriously then I reckon Trump would have been easily re-elected.

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

This country is in a "total disaster" because MAGAs are still out there insisting the November election, the one coming up in five months, is rigged. They are training gun toting thugs to reject ballots from anyone other than MAGA candidates.

....

It's statements like these that make everyone understand how out of touch you are as well as the Democratic party. It's also why Biden has done nothing to help the current state of affairs and why both the 2022 and 2024 elections will be brutal for the Dems. Keep up the good work.

A saw a video recently the GOP campaigns on populism but governs like an oligarchy.
Well the democrats campaign on wokeness and SJW policies and govern like an oligarchy.

Its the same pig and you are choosing on your brand of lipstick.

petertenthije · Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:28 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Consumer sentiment tanked about 2 weeks after Biden was inaugurated.

Trump must have left a real house-of-cards economy if it can be tanked in about two weeks.

marcelh · Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:23 am

LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Biden has been incompetent for DECADES.

His team’s case is they want to “remake” American society centered around a messianic view of the federal government, seeing government planners themselves as the upcoming messiah.

Depending how you count it, 5-10 trillion was thrown at Covid in the US. It has upset the economy. It put average people on a very rapid railroad to insolvency. How will they pay rent in 5 years… don’t ask me. That is eating away at average people’s mental health right now.

Covid didn't begin under Biden. We all saw this coming months away. Nothing was done about it by the previous administration. But, somehow, it is Biden's fault. Rent was going up while wages were stagnant under the previous administration. But it is Biden's fault. Mental health care was non-existent under the previous administration, but it is Biden's fault.

See a pattern here?

Consumer sentiment tanked about 2 weeks after Biden was inaugurated. It was 82 in October 2020, before the election. And it is 50 now. People can’t afford to buy groceries. The government printed so much money, people will need to live 2 families to every apartment, the dollar is worth so little. That’s the pattern I see.

Biden’s role in this in 2021 was unbelievably extensive. The policies enacted, extended and proposed were eye-popping. Mind blowing. And here we are.

I see statements but I don’t see actual facts of what he (his government) has (or hasn’t) done and the consequences. For instance: one of the causes of the inflation is the global logistical nightmare, which originated in 2020 when COVID struck the world. That isn’t something a US President can solve.
Still your statement gives the impression that you and a lot of other Americans blame Biden. IMHO that’s a very one sided point of view which lacks realism of what the President of the USA is able to do.

Dutchy · Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:12 pm

Newark727 wrote:
This thread feels like the political equivalent of "my dad could beat up your dad."

this

seb146 · Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:26 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Biden has been incompetent for DECADES.

His team’s case is they want to “remake” American society centered around a messianic view of the federal government, seeing government planners themselves as the upcoming messiah.

Depending how you count it, 5-10 trillion was thrown at Covid in the US. It has upset the economy. It put average people on a very rapid railroad to insolvency. How will they pay rent in 5 years… don’t ask me. That is eating away at average people’s mental health right now.

Covid didn't begin under Biden. We all saw this coming months away. Nothing was done about it by the previous administration. But, somehow, it is Biden's fault. Rent was going up while wages were stagnant under the previous administration. But it is Biden's fault. Mental health care was non-existent under the previous administration, but it is Biden's fault.

See a pattern here?

Consumer sentiment tanked about 2 weeks after Biden was inaugurated. It was 82 in October 2020, before the election. And it is 50 now. People can’t afford to buy groceries. The government printed so much money, people will need to live 2 families to every apartment, the dollar is worth so little. That’s the pattern I see.

Biden’s role in this in 2021 was unbelievably extensive. The policies enacted, extended and proposed were eye-popping. Mind blowing. And here we are.

Biden proposed building infrastructure that we sorely need. Biden proposed helping working families with children. All were very popular and paid for, unlike the tax break for the wealthy. The economy was headed south anyway because of four years of spending with no income.

zkojq · Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:10 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Lol Biden is a far leftist? Last I check my tax haven't increase, govt haven't totally taken any of my properties and also nationalized everything from healthcare to oil, etc. Actually if US nationalized oil they could easily implement price control (subsidized with tax dollar of course) and we won't have high gas price...

Indeed and it's hilarious that anyone actually believes he's a far-leftist. Conservatives should, by rights, love Biden for all he did for the senate:

- locked up lots of African Americans (and threw away the key)
- voted in favor of corporate subsidies at every available opportunity
- voted for all the wars other than the 1991 Gulf War
- voted for all the higher DOD budgets
- unrepentant support for Israel
- made nearly all Bush tax-cuts permanent (even loads of conservatives weren't happy with that because it was a policy so in favor of the super wealthy)
- opposed Integrated Busing unrepentantly.
- treated Anita Hill like absolute s#it

The far right would absolutely love him if he had an R next to his name.

afcjets · Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:11 pm

zkojq wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Lol Biden is a far leftist? Last I check my tax haven't increase, govt haven't totally taken any of my properties and also nationalized everything from healthcare to oil, etc. Actually if US nationalized oil they could easily implement price control (subsidized with tax dollar of course) and we won't have high gas price...

Indeed and it's hilarious that anyone actually believes he's a far-leftist. Conservatives should, by rights, love Biden for all he did for the senate:

- locked up lots of African Americans (and threw away the key)
- voted in favor of corporate subsidies at every available opportunity
- voted for all the wars other than the 1991 Gulf War
- voted for all the higher DOD budgets
- unrepentant support for Israel
- made nearly all Bush tax-cuts permanent (even loads of conservatives weren't happy with that because it was a policy so in favor of the super wealthy)
- opposed Integrated Busing unrepentantly.
- treated Anita Hill like absolute s#it

The far right would absolutely love him if he had an R next to his name.

You're making all the points Trump did during the campaign.

flyingclrs727 · Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:46 pm

I dislike Trump and Biden and their families about equally. I voted for neither. I do not regret my votes.

Avatar2go · Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:45 am

Anyone who has ridden a bike with the toe cage, has had an instance where their foot didn't come out of the cage as fast or as easily as expected. It happens to the best and most experienced riders. This is a non-issue except for the need to represent Biden as being past it.

Some of us will remember that Chevy Chase made a career out of lampooning President Ford as clumsy, but in fact Ford was a star athlete in his younger days, and had a life-long knee injury from playing football. He wore a knee brace while playing golf and eventually had the knee joint replaced. It was another case of nothing substantial.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net