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DIRECTFLT
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The Politics of US Flight Cancellations - What did the US Taxpayer get with Pandemic Relief Bailouts to the Airlines??

Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:57 am

NBC News


"This is an industry in crisis. There's now a growing scrutiny around the industry's handling of the $$$Billions it received in pandemic relief. Money meant to insure the airlines were ready for post-pandemic travel."

Roughly 35,000 flights have been canceled since Friday, repeating Memorial Day’s mayhem. Though heat is a factor, experts say the crux of the issue is how the industry handled the billions of dollars they received in pandemic relief initially meant to ensure post-pandemic travel. Staffing shortages continue to fuel disruptions after thousands of employees left the industry. After the holiday weekend chaos, airlines are under pressure ahead of July 4th, when millions more are expected to fly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OATSW6fCtpw


ABC News

The Summer of 2022 is going to be travel Hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jetbK5VegIE


Thousands left stranded amid flight cancellations this weekend

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/flight-can ... buttigieg/


Why are airlines canceling so many flights?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/airlines-f ... ellations/
 
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par13del
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Re: The Politics of US Flight Cancellations - What did the US Taxpayer get with Pandemic Relief Bailouts to the Airlines

Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:18 am

Bailouts, I thought the Federal government and some states provided funds to the airlines to keep staff on versus widespread layoffs / furloughs which would have dumped them all on the social services network, the topic header makes it sound as if during Covid the airlines got government funds to pay for day to day operations.
Once the government funds ran out it was business as usual, if the traffic was not there the work force (payroll) was the quickest was to trim cost. If my memory is correct the airlines did request the government to continue their payroll support and it was denied, so the quote that the funds were provided to support a restart of the industry is incorrect.
Reminds me of the bailout after 911 of which if memory is correct only 1 airline took funds, another was denied and some chose not to accept, but the entire industry was bailed out.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: The Politics of US Flight Cancellations - What did the US Taxpayer get with Pandemic Relief Bailouts to the Airlines

Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:01 pm

I think there was no hope that the COVID funding would sustain the entire airline workforce. It was used for the airlines to cover fixed costs & remain solvent, and as a reduced salary for displaced workers. Given the number of variants and waves that occurred, a lot of workers simply retired or moved on. The pilot average age was already pretty high.

So while there are always many legitimate questions about how rapidly provided aid funds are used (it's never quite what the government expects), it's also not reasonable to presume that the aid is a complete substitute for the economy.

I have no doubt that when there eventually is a full accounting of COVID aid programs, a lot of misuse and abuse occurred. It will be regarded as the unfortunate cost of stumbling through the pandemic.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: The Politics of US Flight Cancellations - What did the US Taxpayer get with Pandemic Relief Bailouts to the Airlines

Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:43 pm

par13del wrote:
Bailouts, I thought the Federal government and some states provided funds to the airlines to keep staff on versus widespread layoffs / furloughs which would have dumped them all on the social services network, the topic header makes it sound as if during Covid the airlines got government funds to pay for day to day operations.
Once the government funds ran out it was business as usual, if the traffic was not there the work force (payroll) was the quickest was to trim cost. If my memory is correct the airlines did request the government to continue their payroll support and it was denied, so the quote that the funds were provided to support a restart of the industry is incorrect.
Reminds me of the bailout after 911 of which if memory is correct only 1 airline took funds, another was denied and some chose not to accept, but the entire industry was bailed out.



US airlines recieved $54 billion in payroll support in 3 tranches including one as late as Spring 2021. So IIRC very few were laid off. What did not make sense In hind sight was offering enhanced separation packages. IMO the airlines bet that travel would not comeback as quickly as it did and wanted to lower their cost structures accordingly. What better time to afford paying those packages out then when the US government was funding all your remaining payroll costs (except for very senior management)?

Turns out that was a very bad guess.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Politics of US Flight Cancellations - What did the US Taxpayer get with Pandemic Relief Bailouts to the Airlines

Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:15 pm

It's no secret that the major airlines are a bipartisan 'too big to fail' third rail. Taxpayers got what they voted for.
 
flyguy89
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Re: The Politics of US Flight Cancellations - What did the US Taxpayer get with Pandemic Relief Bailouts to the Airlines

Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:59 pm

What exactly do people expect? Like every other industry, airlines are grappling with a labor shortage combined with a massive decades-in-the-making crimp in the pilot supply pipeline. Operations will certainly smooth out soon here, but until the labor supply is reinvigorated we’re probably looking at stunted capacity and higher fares.

MohawkWeekend wrote:
What did not make sense In hind sight was offering enhanced separation packages. IMO the airlines bet that travel would not comeback as quickly as it did and wanted to lower their cost structures accordingly. What better time to afford paying those packages out then when the US government was funding all your remaining payroll costs (except for very senior management)?

Turns out that was a very bad guess.

True to an extent, but with or without the enhanced separation packages, retirements accelerated massively in many industries across the board.
 
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par13del
Posts: 11396
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: The Politics of US Flight Cancellations - What did the US Taxpayer get with Pandemic Relief Bailouts to the Airlines

Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:47 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
US airlines recieved $54 billion in payroll support in 3 tranches including one as late as Spring 2021. So IIRC very few were laid off. What did not make sense In hind sight was offering enhanced separation packages. IMO the airlines bet that travel would not comeback as quickly as it did and wanted to lower their cost structures accordingly. What better time to afford paying those packages out then when the US government was funding all your remaining payroll costs (except for very senior management)?

Turns out that was a very bad guess.

The airlines may have bet bad so they will and are now paying a price, namely in leaving money on the table because they cannot provide service.
 
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par13del
Posts: 11396
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: The Politics of US Flight Cancellations - What did the US Taxpayer get with Pandemic Relief Bailouts to the Airlines

Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:50 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
It's no secret that the major airlines are a bipartisan 'too big to fail' third rail. Taxpayers got what they voted for.

Well the government was the one who did not want the workers furloughed, so they paid up, don't think they checked with their bosses first, most were still angry about the investment in the auto industry even though they made a profit.
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 1822
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: The Politics of US Flight Cancellations - What did the US Taxpayer get with Pandemic Relief Bailouts to the Airlines

Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:45 pm

Does anyone know how many pilots are still being paid that are no longer flying? IIRC for example didn't Delta's retirement incentive package include being paid a certain number of hours per month until age 65?

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