Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
bennett123
Posts: 11207
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:32 pm

johns624 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
bennett123 wrote:

Last question, if I visited the US would I be allowed to Carry?.


Last question, probably not in most states.

Except for one small exception that I won't go into here, you can't even buy a gun, let alone carry it. Like Galaxy said, you have to be either a citizen or a resident alien. It's not like Hollywood movies.


Strange to think I could walk down the street and be the only person without a gun.
 
johns624
Topic Author
Posts: 5522
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:59 pm

bennett123 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Last question, probably not in most states.

Except for one small exception that I won't go into here, you can't even buy a gun, let alone carry it. Like Galaxy said, you have to be either a citizen or a resident alien. It's not like Hollywood movies.


Strange to think I could walk down the street and be the only person without a gun.
Except that you wouldn't be. Modern America is not the old wild west, no matter how much Hollywood and the evening news makes it out to be.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 14168
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:42 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Ok so, its been more than 40 posts and no one has actually asked or said, what does Norway need to do to stop or to end mass shootings such as the one that happened last Friday.

No one has suggested any changes or anything to avoid this in the future.

Based on what we know from the suspect thus far;

Does Norway need to ban religion to avoid this?

Does Norway need to ban legal immigration?

Does Norway need to send immigrants to re education centers so that they can assimilate the Norwegian culture?

Does Norway need to make tougher laws that would help avoiding illegal guns from entering their borders?

Does Norway need more funding of their police to increase surveillance of people such as the suspect?

Does Norway need to change its laws in order to incarcerate people with suspected ties to Islamic terrorists?

These are the questions we need to ask if they would help reduce or stop another mass shooting in Norway.


The only question that needs to be asked is where did the weapon come from, apart from that Norway doesn’t need to do anything because this is not an every occurrence in Norway.
 
Jalap
Posts: 738
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:25 pm

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:27 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
And gun control couldnt avoid the tragedy of the mass shooting in Norway. So clearly, even with gun control and. Norway sits on the extreme, they couldnt stop the tragedy, dozens of people shot.

This is such tiresome argumentation.
Is there anybody who ever claimed gun control results in immunity?

Argumentation similar to claiming that non-smokers can get cancer too, so you could just as well smoke.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 17970
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:49 pm

Jalap wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
And gun control couldnt avoid the tragedy of the mass shooting in Norway. So clearly, even with gun control and. Norway sits on the extreme, they couldnt stop the tragedy, dozens of people shot.

This is such tiresome argumentation.
Is there anybody who ever claimed gun control results in immunity?

Argumentation similar to claiming that non-smokers can get cancer too, so you could just as well smoke.


The statements are fallacious, so hard to even call it 'argumentation' in the first place.
 
User avatar
MrHMSH
Posts: 3117
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:09 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Ok so, its been more than 40 posts and no one has actually asked or said, what does Norway need to do to stop or to end mass shootings such as the one that happened last Friday.

No one has suggested any changes or anything to avoid this in the future.

Based on what we know from the suspect thus far;

Does Norway need to ban religion to avoid this?

Does Norway need to ban legal immigration?

Does Norway need to send immigrants to re education centers so that they can assimilate the Norwegian culture?

Does Norway need to make tougher laws that would help avoiding illegal guns from entering their borders?

Does Norway need more funding of their police to increase surveillance of people such as the suspect?

Does Norway need to change its laws in order to incarcerate people with suspected ties to Islamic terrorists?

These are the questions we need to ask if they would help reduce or stop another mass shooting in Norway.


Considering globally newsworthy mass shootings in Norway have consisted of a homegrown anti-minority maniac and a possibly fundamentalist immigrant, it would seem intel is obviously the answer. No need for all the deflection.


I am in the 'ban' or 'change laws' camp, since obviously the Norwegian government's effort in improving intel did not help. Last year they also had an attack, yet despite that, we got this tragedy on Friday.

So I think if we use the same premise we should advocate for changing laws or banning something to improve this situation.


I don't know if it is deliberate, but you seem to have completely and utterly missed the point.

Tightened gun regulations won't and can't prevent every single mass shooting, that is an unfortunate and inescapable reality. However, that does not mean the laws don't work, as even the best laws and best enforcement cannot prevent every single crime.

Norway will look at its laws and consider changes, but a couple of incidents do not mean the laws don't work. I'm guessing you're not exactly familiar with Norwegian laws and culture (as a lot of us aren't), but it does seem like a point-scoring exercise from you, and I'm afraid to say I am disappointed with your lack of understanding.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 3073
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:55 am

It’s hardly surprising that certain ammosexual elements are out peddling their false equivalences and usual diarrhoea of whataboutism. The message coming across is basically that all laws are superfluous, since they’re not 100% effective. Might as well not have laws regulating drink driving, homicide, rape and incest, since the laws we have on the books are incapable of preventing these crimes from happening in 100% of cases.

Fact is that this is the 3rd mass-killing in Norway in a period of 11 years. To put that into perspective, based on a per capita basis, the US should have had around 180 such events in the same time period. Alas, the US has managed to eclipse that number quite considerably in a period of less than 3 months in 2022. The difference is not solely down to the difficulty of obtaining a firearm; the Norwegian society is inherently peaceful, unlike the inherently violent society that is a US trademark. They also enjoy universal health care and a fine-masked social safety net. But what they can’t guard against, what no free society can ever guard against, is the lone-wolf psychopath.

What sane societies can do, however, is to make it as difficult as possible for individuals to carry out their heinous act, for instance by way of severely restricting legal access to firearms.
 
GDB
Posts: 15368
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:32 am

B777LRF wrote:
It’s hardly surprising that certain ammosexual elements are out peddling their false equivalences and usual diarrhoea of whataboutism. The message coming across is basically that all laws are superfluous, since they’re not 100% effective. Might as well not have laws regulating drink driving, homicide, rape and incest, since the laws we have on the books are incapable of preventing these crimes from happening in 100% of cases.

Fact is that this is the 3rd mass-killing in Norway in a period of 11 years. To put that into perspective, based on a per capita basis, the US should have had around 180 such events in the same time period. Alas, the US has managed to eclipse that number quite considerably in a period of less than 3 months in 2022. The difference is not solely down to the difficulty of obtaining a firearm; the Norwegian society is inherently peaceful, unlike the inherently violent society that is a US trademark. They also enjoy universal health care and a fine-masked social safety net. But what they can’t guard against, what no free society can ever guard against, is the lone-wolf psychopath.

What sane societies can do, however, is to make it as difficult as possible for individuals to carry out their heinous act, for instance by way of severely restricting legal access to firearms.


Put with logic, realism and sanity......as opposed to, god if their physical gymnastics matched the mental ones ammosexuals trot out they’d be Olympic Gold Medalists.
Here, so far hasn’t happened but never say never, (it is the nightmare scenario of the security services here if terrorists ever got firearms, more specifically smuggled in automatic weapons to do an attack like Mumbai or Paris, hence when not long ago an Organised Crime Group was busted at sea trying to bring in AK’s and other military weapons, they got very heavy prison terms).

But what have lone wolf terrorists used in the UK used in attacks? Cannot get AR-15’s or similar since they have been banned (under the Thatcher government before the US fantasy of left wingers ‘taking guns’ is farted out,because of the Hungerford massacre in 1987), or a pistol (since the Sandy Hook type massacre at Dunblane in 1996), yes other first world Western nations are ‘weird’ like that, the desire to protect people from being massacred by nutcases, whether they be religious or political or just, as in those two cases, just bitter life failures, when they are using weapons not ones used and still legal for actual rural purposes, but ones with no logical justification in a modern society.

This is why the lone wolf’s here are using.......knifes. As a result these scum can still kill people, injure more, not thankfully many, not for long before the armed response comes and slots them, or normal beat cops have a go with a baton, taser if available, protecting the public as they are sworn to do, in stark contrast to Udvale who were armed up.
The perps have sometimes even faked up suicide bombs (which means the Firearms Officers concentrate aimed fire including to the head just in case they are real).
At the Borough Market attack the AFO’s were there within a couple of minutes, would a normal armed as standard officer beat that? Certainly put Udvale’s law enforcement to shame, yes it was Central London so plenty of them around, this is also by far the favorite place for these types to attack, high profile and crowds.
 
petertenthije
Posts: 4588
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:41 am

GDB wrote:
This is why the lone wolf’s here are using.......knifes.

Terrorists want attention above all. Killing is a means to an end, not the end goal itself (for most anyway).

In most western countries you get all the attention you want with a knife or a gun.

In the US a gun attack hardly registers anymore. To get attention there, you have to bring in bombs or airliners.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 21078
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:51 am

B777LRF wrote:
It’s hardly surprising that certain ammosexual elements are out peddling their false equivalences and usual diarrhoea of whataboutism. The message coming across is basically that all laws are superfluous, since they’re not 100% effective. Might as well not have laws regulating drink driving, homicide, rape and incest, since the laws we have on the books are incapable of preventing these crimes from happening in 100% of cases.

Fact is that this is the 3rd mass-killing in Norway in a period of 11 years. To put that into perspective, based on a per capita basis, the US should have had around 180 such events in the same time period. Alas, the US has managed to eclipse that number quite considerably in a period of less than 3 months in 2022. The difference is not solely down to the difficulty of obtaining a firearm; the Norwegian society is inherently peaceful, unlike the inherently violent society that is a US trademark. They also enjoy universal health care and a fine-masked social safety net. But what they can’t guard against, what no free society can ever guard against, is the lone-wolf psychopath.

What sane societies can do, however, is to make it as difficult as possible for individuals to carry out their heinous act, for instance by way of severely restricting legal access to firearms.


Oh please, just stop with the sensible posting. ;)
 
johns624
Topic Author
Posts: 5522
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:21 pm

Many people here are missing the sarcasm of a certain poster's comments. He is merely turning in the opposite direction some of the kneejerk reaction comments about what the US should do about guns when they have no idea on what current laws are.
 
JJJ
Posts: 4274
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:00 pm

johns624 wrote:
Many people here are missing the sarcasm of a certain poster's comments. He is merely turning in the opposite direction some of the kneejerk reaction comments about what the US should do about guns when they have no idea on what current laws are.


You mean the false analogies?

Everyone gets that
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1589
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:51 pm

I love it how nuanced and balanced this thread is. People ask for 'an investigation to be done first before jumping to conclusions', 'find out where the gun came from' and lastly one argument that sticks out the most is this one:


MrHMSH wrote:

Tightened gun regulations won't and can't prevent every single mass shooting, that is an unfortunate and inescapable reality. However, that does not mean the laws don't work, as even the best laws and best enforcement cannot prevent every single crime.

Norway will look at its laws and consider changes, but a couple of incidents do not mean the laws don't work. I'm guessing you're not exactly familiar with Norwegian laws and culture (as a lot of us aren't), but it does seem like a point-scoring exercise from you, and I'm afraid to say I am disappointed with your lack of understanding.


This certainly is I think the most based and balanced opinion. Gun regulations won't and can't prevent mass shootings. I am almost sold on this.

If this thread would have been about another country this person would have been labeled as a right winger or a person who doesn't care about people dying.

No one is outraged at Norway, nor its laws, nor its people, nor anyone is asking for anything to be changed in Norway as a result of these recent attacks that have happened. Because no one should.

I like it I think a.net is evolving and certainly this is a step in the right direction.

Nonetheless, we need to do more than 'thoughts and prayers' I think Norway should ban or change some laws, because that's the standard we been told countries should meet. With no exceptions. Even the countries we like.
 
User avatar
MrHMSH
Posts: 3117
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:47 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
This certainly is I think the most based and balanced opinion. Gun regulations won't and can't prevent mass shootings. I am almost sold on this.

If this thread would have been about another country this person would have been labeled as a right winger or a person who doesn't care about people dying.

No one is outraged at Norway, nor its laws, nor its people, nor anyone is asking for anything to be changed in Norway as a result of these recent attacks that have happened. Because no one should.

I like it I think a.net is evolving and certainly this is a step in the right direction.

Nonetheless, we need to do more than 'thoughts and prayers' I think Norway should ban or change some laws, because that's the standard we been told countries should meet. With no exceptions. Even the countries we like.


You misinterpret. Norway has already taken steps to reduce the number of people who die by being shot. No one is asking for sweeping, drastic changes because those changes have already been made, and realistically not a huge amount more can be done to prevent what are rare occurrences. They will be quite shocked by what has happened though, so they will look at what loopholes they can close, and how they can spot a potential killer earlier, but Norway is generally a grown-up country whose government does try to care for its citizens, so they probably can't do much more to prevent shootings.

No one's ever claimed that regulations can stop mass shootings, but at least trying is better than nothing. Some of our friends on the other side of the Atlantic won't even contemplate taking action. So their kids keep getting gunned down.
 
cskok8
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:37 am

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:22 am

A mass staber can be taken out by a few brave bystanders with umbrellas, stools, walking sticks, narwhal tusk, etc
 
Kent350787
Posts: 2465
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:56 am

cskok8 wrote:
A mass staber can be taken out by a few brave bystanders with umbrellas, stools, walking sticks, narwhal tusk, etc


Or chairs and plastic milk crates.... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-13/ ... s/11409676

This murder in Norway is another awful crime. Thankfully strong gun laws in Norway, as we have here in Australia, mean mass shootings are extremely rare.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 3073
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:23 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
I love it how nuanced and balanced this thread is. People ask for 'an investigation to be done first before jumping to conclusions', 'find out where the gun came from' and lastly one argument that sticks out the most is this one:


MrHMSH wrote:

Tightened gun regulations won't and can't prevent every single mass shooting, that is an unfortunate and inescapable reality. However, that does not mean the laws don't work, as even the best laws and best enforcement cannot prevent every single crime.

Norway will look at its laws and consider changes, but a couple of incidents do not mean the laws don't work. I'm guessing you're not exactly familiar with Norwegian laws and culture (as a lot of us aren't), but it does seem like a point-scoring exercise from you, and I'm afraid to say I am disappointed with your lack of understanding.


This certainly is I think the most based and balanced opinion. Gun regulations won't and can't prevent mass shootings. I am almost sold on this.

If this thread would have been about another country this person would have been labeled as a right winger or a person who doesn't care about people dying.

No one is outraged at Norway, nor its laws, nor its people, nor anyone is asking for anything to be changed in Norway as a result of these recent attacks that have happened. Because no one should.

I like it I think a.net is evolving and certainly this is a step in the right direction.

Nonetheless, we need to do more than 'thoughts and prayers' I think Norway should ban or change some laws, because that's the standard we been told countries should meet. With no exceptions. Even the countries we like.


You seem to have completely misunderstood what’s been written here, and also seem to lack a general idea of how the Norwegian society works.

The very reason nobody is calling on Norway to implement drastic measures is that they already exist. It is a highly egalitarian, non-violent and rich society, with a solid social safety net and universal health care, which has been build on the usual Scandinavian model driven by Social-democratic principles. It is, essentially, everything the US is not - including offering a much higher level of personal freedom.

No, tight gun regulations won’t prevent mass murders. But they can, and do, make them an exceedingly rare rather than an everyday occurrence. If you cannot comprehend that difference, and the reason behind it, it does go a long way to explain your post.
 
User avatar
Mortyman
Posts: 6172
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:51 am

An interesting video from last year A knifemann that the police had had problems with before, this time threatend the police again. The police wasted no time taking action and rammed the police car into him and then fired 6 bullets, after the perpetrator had managed to open the police door and stab one of the plice officers:



Knife Man Shot And Killed By Norwegian Police

Please be adviced that some might find this video a bit disturbing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpRbf08aIW0
 
JJJ
Posts: 4274
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Mass Shooting in Norway

Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:48 am

MrHMSH wrote:

No one's ever claimed that regulations can stop mass shootings, but at least trying is better than nothing. Some of our friends on the other side of the Atlantic won't even contemplate taking action. So their kids keep getting gunned down.


It's the fallacy of perfection. Since there's always some event that will slip through the cracks, there's no point in doing anything.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Avatar2go, emperortk, leader1, Mani87, SRQLOT and 25 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos