https://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-repo ... d=86186529

Time for the usual barrage of "Thoughts are prayers" bs. And Highland park is an affluent suburb of Chicago. Used to live nearby not the crime ridden areas people love to blame for Chicago gun violence

Reports (unconfirmed, FWIW) are that the gunman opened fire on the parade from a rooftop. He is still at large.

Six dead so far and 31 injured

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/illino ... index.html

TriJets wrote:

Reports (unconfirmed, FWIW) are that the gunman opened fire on the parade from a rooftop. He is still at large.

Was watching CNN. Apparently they recovered a rifle but they interviewed someone who witnessed it and she said it was definitely an automatic.

phugoid1982 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

Reports (unconfirmed, FWIW) are that the gunman opened fire on the parade from a rooftop. He is still at large.

Was watching CNN. Apparently they recovered a rifle but they interviewed someone who witnessed it and she said it was definitely an automatic.

I have seen a few videos from the parade and the gunshots didn't sound like they came from an automatic weapon. A lot of people don't know the difference between semi-auto and automatic.

TriJets wrote:

I have seen a few videos from the parade and the gunshots didn't sound like they came from an automatic weapon. A lot of people don't know the difference between semi-auto and automatic.

Many call semi autos "automatic" and automatics "full autos" It's all word salad designed for the anti gun crowd.

So this guy has just killed little more than 10% of the average death by guns per day; sad for these who have been killed and got wounded. RIP and hope, the wounded will recover soon.

An own thread for something, which will not even form a recognizable peak on the daily kill curve by guns, especially as on 4th of Jul, there are always much higher numbers than average?

This one is as bad as a school shooting because it's a family holiday event, with tons of kids present. Although the shooter did not seem to target the kids. Still it's a horrendous thing. I live not far away. Everyone around me is in shock.

It is shocking to hear about these grotesque tragedies. They are mercifully rare in England so I am not inured to such gun violence and will be shocked to hear about the next tragedy... and the one after that... and the one after that...

Looks like they have a suspect and are out looking for him. He looks like an incredibly disturbed individual. How the hell was someone like that allowed to buy a high powered rifle?

https://www.mystateline.com/news/local- ... g-suspect/

I'm surprised no one seems to have offered thoughts and prayers yet?

Sadly we keep losing freedoms that we are supposed to celebrate on our Independence Day. Getting shot up by someone with a twisted mind and access to a lightly modified military killing weapon. The Supreme Court narrowing rights of women, LTGBQ, voters, workers, persons when arrested in recent decisions. We keep finding more evidence of the horrors of Donald Trump and his terror coup on the Capitol on 1/6/21 and can't seem to punish him. Government and our society more divided than it has been for generations. It seems like not much to celebrate about Independence Day bur for some ideal that hangs by a thread.

BBC reports that 'a person of interest' is being held.

So the shooter is a fan of the former president. His dad ran, unsuccessfully, for mayor and was a former president fan. The shooter was also a 2nd amendment fan. Huh, go figure..
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/04/us/highl ... index.html

CaptHadley wrote:

So the shooter is a fan of the former president. His dad ran, unsuccessfully, for mayor and was a former president fan. The shooter was also a 2nd amendment fan. Huh, go figure..
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/04/us/highl ... index.html

Do you have any sources for your statements about their political affiliations? It wouldn't surprise me but none of that is mentioned in your link.

Is there anything more "American" than a mass shooting at a 4th of July parade?

It pretty much sums up the country right now.

phugoid1982 wrote:

Time for the usual barrage of "Thoughts are prayers" bs. And Highland park is an affluent suburb of Chicago. Used to live nearby not the crime ridden areas people love to blame for Chicago gun violence

It also proves conservatives who complain about "Chicago's strong gun laws don't stop crime" wrong. Highland Park is 20 miles from gun friendly Wisconsin. You can drive over the border, pick up a brand new AR-15 and a few hundred rounds and be back in Chicago at a school, mall or 4th of July parade in less than an hour.

johns624 wrote:

CaptHadley wrote:

So the shooter is a fan of the former president. His dad ran, unsuccessfully, for mayor and was a former president fan. The shooter was also a 2nd amendment fan. Huh, go figure..
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/04/us/highl ... index.html

Do you have any sources for your statements about their political affiliations? It wouldn't surprise me but none of that is mentioned in your link.

Thought it was in there. Here's another one with a little more in depth about him and his family.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... mailonline

I wonder if this will be classified as just another "gun crime", instead of what it obviously is: home-made terrorism.

Not to make light of the tragedy but doesn't the suspect's picture look like an anime cartoon character with an oversize (empty) head?

CaptHadley wrote:

johns624 wrote:

CaptHadley wrote:

So the shooter is a fan of the former president. His dad ran, unsuccessfully, for mayor and was a former president fan. The shooter was also a 2nd amendment fan. Huh, go figure..
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/04/us/highl ... index.html

Do you have any sources for your statements about their political affiliations? It wouldn't surprise me but none of that is mentioned in your link.

Thought it was in there. Here's another one with a little more in depth about him and his family.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... mailonline

Thanks.

Sadly this terrorists was arrested and taken in custody alive.Guess it was the White Privilege card that meant he was taken alive, not with 60 bullies in him. Today (Tuesday) we will hear the names of the victims, stories of their lives, T&P's, nothing done about the availability of semi-military weapons made to kill people. While the USA isn't alone in mass shooting events (several have occurred in Europe in the last week or so), it is getting to the point where many will be afraid to go to a mall, a parade, be on a subway due to our culture of guns in our country.

CaptHadley wrote:

johns624 wrote:

CaptHadley wrote:

So the shooter is a fan of the former president. His dad ran, unsuccessfully, for mayor and was a former president fan. The shooter was also a 2nd amendment fan. Huh, go figure..
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/04/us/highl ... index.html

Do you have any sources for your statements about their political affiliations? It wouldn't surprise me but none of that is mentioned in your link.

Thought it was in there. Here's another one with a little more in depth about him and his family.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... mailonline

The linked article quotes this as the 309th mass shooting in the US this year ....

The US has now seen 309 mass shootings so far this year in which four or more people, excluding the shooter, were shot or killed. Eleven alone took place over the holiday weekend.

What are we - about 187 days into 2022?
Speaking as a non-US citizen, I'm not sure what to say in response to that, if I'm honest. Assuming its true

Rgds

ltbewr wrote:

Sadly this terrorists was arrested and taken in custody alive.Guess it was the White Privilege card that meant he was taken alive, not with 60 bullies in him. Today (Tuesday) we will hear the names of the victims, stories of their lives, T&P's, nothing done about the availability of semi-military weapons made to kill people. While the USA isn't alone in mass shooting events (several have occurred in Europe in the last week or so), it is getting to the point where many will be afraid to go to a mall, a parade, be on a subway due to our culture of guns in our country.

For context, 4 mass shootings in the UK this century ....
from this page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... ed_Kingdom

Massereene Barracks shooting - Northern Ireland - 2009
Cumbria shootings - 2010 (remember this well as a Cumbria resident, out walking in the Lakes that day)
Moss Side shooting (Manchester) - 2018
Plymouth shooting - 2021

We're what? 1/5 of the US population? (68M vs 332M)

The equivalent of 20 in 22 years for a US sized population

Wiki had this for the USA in 2022

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... es_in_2022

Rgds

I'm confused why a Tr*mp supporter would shoot up a parade in a predominately white suburb. Why not do it in Chicago where there are more minorities?

Full disclosure, I didn't spend a lot of time reading the write ups. To depressing.

dalmit wrote:

I'm confused why a Tr*mp supporter would shoot up a parade in a predominately white suburb. Why not do it in Chicago where there are more minorities?

Full disclosure, I didn't spend a lot of time reading the write ups. To depressing.

I don't think politics, one way or the other, had a lot to do with this.

More Guns = more deaths.

This crime obviously had a mentally unstable individual as the catalyst, but the gun was obtained legally. So there you have it. Legal Gun owner goes insane again and dozens of people pay the price with 6 paying the ultimate price.

Nothing will change this math until we have reasonable restrictions on gun ownership.

dalmit wrote:

I'm confused why a Tr*mp supporter would shoot up a parade in a predominately white suburb. Why not do it in Chicago where there are more minorities?

Full disclosure, I didn't spend a lot of time reading the write ups. To depressing.

Does it matter what affiliations/prejudices/mental illnesses the perpetrator has?

To me what matters is that the interpretation by US judges of the 2nd amendment is ludicrous, enabling such massacres to be committed. Was the perpetrator part of 'a well regulated militia'? If I want to buy a gun, is there an onus on the supplier to establish that I am part of a 'well regulated militia'? Clearly not so.

ltbewr wrote:

Sadly this terrorists was arrested and taken in custody alive.Guess it was the White Privilege card that meant he was taken alive, not with 60 bullies in him. .

Likely because he surrendered instead of shooting at the police and running. Unless you are arguing that the police should simply execute surrendering individuals based on their alleged offenses.

dalmit wrote:

I'm confused why a Tr*mp supporter would shoot up a parade in a predominately white suburb. Why not do it in Chicago where there are more minorities?

Full disclosure, I didn't spend a lot of time reading the write ups. To depressing.

Apparently that particular suburb has a large Jewish population. Speculation here, but if he was a far-right neo-nazi, that may have motivated his target selection.

casinterest wrote:

Nothing will change this math until we have reasonable restrictions on gun ownership.

Not going to happen. In fact, the SCOTUS just enhanced the right to gun ownership even further.

TriJets wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Nothing will change this math until we have reasonable restrictions on gun ownership.

Not going to happen. In fact, the SCOTUS just enhanced the right to gun ownership even further.

Answer a simple question - do you think America has a gun problem?

TriJets wrote:

Likely because he surrendered instead of shooting at the police and running.

Not being black was just an added bonus for him.

scbriml wrote:

TriJets wrote:

Likely because he surrendered instead of shooting at the police and running.

Not being black was just an added bonus for him.

Police kill far more white people than blacks, despite black people statistically being very overrepresented amongst violent crime offenders. The police also kill far more men than women. Are you arguing that the police are radical man-haters?

scbriml wrote:

TriJets wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Nothing will change this math until we have reasonable restrictions on gun ownership.

Not going to happen. In fact, the SCOTUS just enhanced the right to gun ownership even further.

Answer a simple question - do you think America has a gun problem?

I think America has a lot of problems. Mass shootings are simply high on the current list.

TriJets wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Nothing will change this math until we have reasonable restrictions on gun ownership.

Not going to happen. In fact, the SCOTUS just enhanced the right to gun ownership even further.

It will be interesting to read the stats on gun woundings and deaths in the next year to see if that results in more or less woundings and deaths. If the number rises, will the corollary be that enhanced rights to gun ownership result in more woundings and deaths? If so, the SCOTUS is composed of a majority of idiots.

TriJets wrote:

scbriml wrote:

TriJets wrote:

Not going to happen. In fact, the SCOTUS just enhanced the right to gun ownership even further.

Answer a simple question - do you think America has a gun problem?

I think America has a lot of problems. Mass shootings are simply high on the current list.

So yes, America has a gun problem? Is that what you're saying?

art wrote:

TriJets wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Nothing will change this math until we have reasonable restrictions on gun ownership.

Not going to happen. In fact, the SCOTUS just enhanced the right to gun ownership even further.

It will be interesting to read the stats on gun woundings and deaths in the next year to see if that results in more or less woundings and deaths. If the number rises, will the corollary be that enhanced rights to gun ownership result in more woundings and deaths? If so, the SCOTUS is composed of a majority of idiots.

What if the number of justifiable homicides rises? Or the number of rapes decreases? If so, then would the SCOTUS be considered genius in your opinion?

scbriml wrote:

TriJets wrote:

scbriml wrote:

Answer a simple question - do you think America has a gun problem?

I think America has a lot of problems. Mass shootings are simply high on the current list.

So yes, America has a gun problem? Is that what you're saying?

Guns in the hands of people that shouldn't have them are a problem. 99.999% of guns (400 million guns in the US versus ~20k gun homicides per year) are not.

A little more background on the shooter. His mother is Denise Pesina. If the last name sounds somewhat familiar, it’s because she’s apparently the sister of Daniel and Carlos Pesina, who were two of the actors in the Mortal Kombat video game series (think Sub Zero, Johnny Cage, Scorpion and Raiden). Daniel was a pretty successful stuntman in Hollywood and currently runs his own dojo in Chicago. Article doesn’t say the relation, but did some research and apparently there is that relation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ement.html

TriJets wrote:

scbriml wrote:

TriJets wrote:

Likely because he surrendered instead of shooting at the police and running.

Not being black was just an added bonus for him.

Police kill far more white people than blacks, despite black people statistically being very overrepresented amongst violent crime offenders. The police also kill far more men than women. Are you arguing that the police are radical man-haters?

It's not the number. There are more White people than Black people in the United States, so, statistically, that is accurate. But, look at the circumstances. "Man shot after hours long stand off" vs. "Man riddled with bullets during a routine traffic stop" and you can see the outrage.

It comes as no surprise to anyone that the latest mass shooter was taken alive. He is young and White. Knowing he was armed.

TriJets wrote:

art wrote:

TriJets wrote:

Not going to happen. In fact, the SCOTUS just enhanced the right to gun ownership even further.

It will be interesting to read the stats on gun woundings and deaths in the next year to see if that results in more or less woundings and deaths. If the number rises, will the corollary be that enhanced rights to gun ownership result in more woundings and deaths? If so, the SCOTUS is composed of a majority of idiots.

What if the number of justifiable homicides rises? Or the number of rapes decreases? If so, then would the SCOTUS be considered genius in your opinion?

If rapes go down and homicides and woundings go down that would indicate that the majority of the SCOTUS are not idiots. Let's wait and see if the extension of gun ownership results in the effect of gun ownership becoming more appalling or less appalling than it is today.

If it becomes less appalling, I would side with SCOTUS. If it becomes more appalling would you side against SCOTUS?

seb146 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

scbriml wrote:

Not being black was just an added bonus for him.

Police kill far more white people than blacks, despite black people statistically being very overrepresented amongst violent crime offenders. The police also kill far more men than women. Are you arguing that the police are radical man-haters?

It's not the number. There are more White people than Black people in the United States, so, statistically, that is accurate. But, look at the circumstances. "Man shot after hours long stand off" vs. "Man riddled with bullets during a routine traffic stop" and you can see the outrage.

It comes as no surprise to anyone that the latest mass shooter was taken alive. He is young and White. Knowing he was armed.

What about the black mass shooter who killed 8 people (including a cop) and was arrested unharmed? Or the black kid who shot several students at his school in Texas last year, was arrested unharmed, and thrown a party when he made bail the next day? Race isn't the deciding factor in whether or not the cops shoot someone....that person's own individual actions are.

TriJets wrote:

seb146 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

Police kill far more white people than blacks, despite black people statistically being very overrepresented amongst violent crime offenders. The police also kill far more men than women. Are you arguing that the police are radical man-haters?

It's not the number. There are more White people than Black people in the United States, so, statistically, that is accurate. But, look at the circumstances. "Man shot after hours long stand off" vs. "Man riddled with bullets during a routine traffic stop" and you can see the outrage.

It comes as no surprise to anyone that the latest mass shooter was taken alive. He is young and White. Knowing he was armed.

What about the black mass shooter who killed 8 people (including a cop) and was arrested unharmed? Or the black kid who shot several students at his school in Texas last year, was arrested unharmed, and thrown a party when he made bail the next day? Race isn't the deciding factor in whether or not the cops shoot someone....that person's own individual actions are.

Like the Black man who was pulled over and killed because police didn't believe it was his BMW or the Black man who was pulled over and killed because he told officers he had a legal gun or the Black woman who was arrested for a broken tail light and died in a jail cell or the Black woman who was playing video games and was killed by police?

We could go on and on, back and forth, but just know that police treat minorities different. That needs to be fixed. Along with the gun problem. Sadly, neither will be.

Seeing as it's shootin' season again (did it really ever end?), I think it's time to just dust off the United States Mass Shooting thread. Saves the non-av forum being cluttered with a thread for each shooting.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1459909

BlueberryWheats wrote:

Seeing as it's shootin' season again (did it really ever end?), I think it's time to just dust off the United States Mass Shooting thread. Saves the non-av forum being cluttered with a thread for each shooting.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1459909

Good idea. Not much point in risking having hundreds of different mass shooting threads each year (since there are hundreds of mass shootings each year in US).

TriJets wrote:

dalmit wrote:

I'm confused why a Tr*mp supporter would shoot up a parade in a predominately white suburb. Why not do it in Chicago where there are more minorities?

Full disclosure, I didn't spend a lot of time reading the write ups. To depressing.

Apparently that particular suburb has a large Jewish population. Speculation here, but if he was a far-right neo-nazi, that may have motivated his target selection.

That thought crossed my mind as well. Back in the late 70's and early 80's I worked for a company owned by a Jewish family that lived in Highland Park. I was aware there was a sizable Jewish community there at that time and was curious if that was still the case nowadays.

seb146 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

seb146 wrote:

It's not the number. There are more White people than Black people in the United States, so, statistically, that is accurate. But, look at the circumstances. "Man shot after hours long stand off" vs. "Man riddled with bullets during a routine traffic stop" and you can see the outrage.

It comes as no surprise to anyone that the latest mass shooter was taken alive. He is young and White. Knowing he was armed.

What about the black mass shooter who killed 8 people (including a cop) and was arrested unharmed? Or the black kid who shot several students at his school in Texas last year, was arrested unharmed, and thrown a party when he made bail the next day? Race isn't the deciding factor in whether or not the cops shoot someone....that person's own individual actions are.

Like the Black man who was pulled over and killed because police didn't believe it was his BMW or the Black man who was pulled over and killed because he told officers he had a legal gun or the Black woman who was arrested for a broken tail light and died in a jail cell or the Black woman who was playing video games and was killed by police?

We could go on and on, back and forth, but just know that police treat minorities different. That needs to be fixed. Along with the gun problem. Sadly, neither will be.

Absolutely true. I remember I had a car accident in Boston in 2013 and since I had an out of state license was charged with "driving without a license". Got my Mass license immediately and expected a subpoena to go court which never came. 8 months later I ran a yellow light and my mom was with me and a cop pulled me over. Then about 10 cops appeared. Apparently a bench warrant for my arrest had been issued since I never showed up for the license issue. The cops arrested me and released in less than 30 mins but were so nice and apologetic and even drove my mom home. Now, I was an engineer and dressed super well so I will absolutely admit my Asian privilege saved me. I still remember the cop talking to his boss "are you sure we've got the right guy, He seems like a Saint"