Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
Topic Author
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:41 pm

Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Tue Jul 12, 2022 5:46 pm

I cannot believe this is not getting more attention, but Biden sold 1 million barrels of oil to China, specifically to a company his son Hunter has invested in. How can this not be investigated and prosecuted?

https://intellectualtakeout.org/2022/07 ... m-reserve/
 
luckyone
Posts: 4534
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Tue Jul 12, 2022 5:51 pm

Maybe because it's manufactured outrage. God forbid we get money FROM China. Meanwhile, any prosecution would have to be impeachment, and we all know that would be DOA in the Senate.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2022 ... ve-answer/
 
LabQuest
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:31 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:00 pm

The USA can only refine about 10~ million barrels a day for gasoline. All other oil is sold on the open market to the highest bidder. This has been going on for years and doesn't change anything about our reliance or sale of strategic oil. We have more oil stored in the SPR today than we did under any time under Trump.

This is a nothing burger.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 15670
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:15 pm

So wait, we actually exported a product to China , and the nutjobs are all upset? What a bunch of uneducated fools.
 
hashtagconfused
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:19 pm

LabQuest wrote:
We have more oil stored in the SPR today than we did under any time under Trump.


do you have a source for the quantity of oil stored in the SPR currently vs under trump?
 
phugoid1982
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:02 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:27 pm

casinterest wrote:
So wait, we actually exported a product to China , and the nutjobs are all upset? What a bunch of uneducated fools.


Haha. I was thinking the same thing as much as I despise Biden and Hunter's crooked deals. Closing the gap on the trade deficit is by all objective measures a good thing.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 11455
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:24 pm

So to chip in on the dark side, the USA is sending a million barrels of oil to China maybe as incentive to not assist Russia, but they could have sent the oil to Germany who Russia has cut off who is sending equipment to Ukraine....the political things that make you say hmmm....
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 12125
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:28 pm

par13del wrote:
So to chip in on the dark side, the USA is sending a million barrels of oil to China maybe as incentive to not assist Russia, but they could have sent the oil to Germany who Russia has cut off who is sending equipment to Ukraine....the political things that make you say hmmm....

Germany needs gas, not oil. And we are selling a lot to them and the EU.

Tugg
 
VolvoBus
Posts: 337
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:47 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:52 am

par13del wrote:
So to chip in on the dark side, the USA is sending a million barrels of oil to China maybe as incentive to not assist Russia, but they could have sent the oil to Germany who Russia has cut off who is sending equipment to Ukraine....the political things that make you say hmmm....


The US is selling the oil - sending has the implication of being free, like aid. Nobody seems to realize that this is 1 million barrels Russia is not selling to China.
 
GDB
Posts: 15653
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:48 am

VolvoBus wrote:
par13del wrote:
So to chip in on the dark side, the USA is sending a million barrels of oil to China maybe as incentive to not assist Russia, but they could have sent the oil to Germany who Russia has cut off who is sending equipment to Ukraine....the political things that make you say hmmm....


The US is selling the oil - sending has the implication of being free, like aid. Nobody seems to realize that this is 1 million barrels Russia is not selling to China.


Correct, what anyone with any kind of knowledge of the real world and common sense can see, it they are BUYING from the US they are not from Russia, which needs all the foreign currency it can get.
Another poor attempt from conspiracy central, where common sense and if they get their way, democracy, goes to die.

(Don't think we've forgotten Trump and his supporters love in with Putin either).
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 6686
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:29 am

I don't think US have any export control against China in term of oil?
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 6686
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:31 am

VolvoBus wrote:
par13del wrote:
So to chip in on the dark side, the USA is sending a million barrels of oil to China maybe as incentive to not assist Russia, but they could have sent the oil to Germany who Russia has cut off who is sending equipment to Ukraine....the political things that make you say hmmm....


The US is selling the oil - sending has the implication of being free, like aid. Nobody seems to realize that this is 1 million barrels Russia is not selling to China.

Russia energy export to China is capacity limited, like they only have one single gas pipeline, I am not sure about energy but I don't think they can export much more than what they already exported
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 14298
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:43 am

c933103 wrote:
VolvoBus wrote:
par13del wrote:
So to chip in on the dark side, the USA is sending a million barrels of oil to China maybe as incentive to not assist Russia, but they could have sent the oil to Germany who Russia has cut off who is sending equipment to Ukraine....the political things that make you say hmmm....


The US is selling the oil - sending has the implication of being free, like aid. Nobody seems to realize that this is 1 million barrels Russia is not selling to China.

Russia energy export to China is capacity limited, like they only have one single gas pipeline, I am not sure about energy but I don't think they can export much more than what they already exported


There is a fleet 15 of ARC7 LNG carriers running between Yamal and China today. There's about 20 more under construction, some of these vessels were for SovComFlot, they have been re-flagged and will be owned and operated by Japanese and Chinese companies. There will be over 30 vessels on this route fairly soon.
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 6686
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:51 am

Kiwirob wrote:
c933103 wrote:
VolvoBus wrote:

The US is selling the oil - sending has the implication of being free, like aid. Nobody seems to realize that this is 1 million barrels Russia is not selling to China.

Russia energy export to China is capacity limited, like they only have one single gas pipeline, I am not sure about energy but I don't think they can export much more than what they already exported


There is a fleet 15 of ARC7 LNG carriers running between Yamal and China today. There's about 20 more under construction, some of these vessels were for SovComFlot, they have been re-flagged and will be owned and operated by Japanese and Chinese companies. There will be over 30 vessels on this route fairly soon.

Then maybe the US and Canada should race to increase petroleum export facility and ships in order to drive Russian gases out of competition, shipping across the Pacific should be much more economical than shipping across Arctic and Bering Straits, or via Indian Ocean
 
luckyone
Posts: 4534
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:52 am

Kiwirob wrote:
c933103 wrote:
VolvoBus wrote:

The US is selling the oil - sending has the implication of being free, like aid. Nobody seems to realize that this is 1 million barrels Russia is not selling to China.

Russia energy export to China is capacity limited, like they only have one single gas pipeline, I am not sure about energy but I don't think they can export much more than what they already exported


There is a fleet 15 of ARC7 LNG carriers running between Yamal and China today. There's about 20 more under construction, some of these vessels were for SovComFlot, they have been re-flagged and will be owned and operated by Japanese and Chinese companies. There will be over 30 vessels on this route fairly soon.

What does that route look like, and is it a route that can be operated year-round?
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 1904
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:26 pm

1 million barrels of oil is nothing really - China consumes 14 million barrels of oil A DAY.

That being said exports of energy to the PRC IMO does not serve the strategic interests of the US. It helps hide the true extent of our trade imbalance. We send them raw materials( timber, waste paper, oil and LNG) they add the manufacturing expertise to return us furniture, cardboard boxes for all the stuff we buy, and fuel for their factories and military

And yes - Biden has pulled more oil from the SPR than anyone ever has. It's either get prices down or get creamed in November

U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve drops to lowest level since 1987
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodi ... 022-05-16/
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 15670
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:03 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
1 million barrels of oil is nothing really - China consumes 14 million barrels of oil A DAY.

That being said exports of energy to the PRC IMO does not serve the strategic interests of the US. It helps hide the true extent of our trade imbalance. We send them raw materials( timber, waste paper, oil and LNG) they add the manufacturing expertise to return us furniture, cardboard boxes for all the stuff we buy, and fuel for their factories and military

And yes - Biden has pulled more oil from the SPR than anyone ever has. It's either get prices down or get creamed in November

U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve drops to lowest level since 1987
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodi ... 022-05-16/



https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/07/12/biden-oil-china/

Good article to read on what is going on,

And remember the SPR exists in case there is a supply issue of oil. There is no supply issue It is a demand issue., and as evidenced by yesterday's dramatic plummet ~7-8% in oil prices most of the demand is being destroyed by the high prices.

The SPR is far from depleted. Per the article above the current amount is around 538 million barrels. We still have a lot more oil left.

Image
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 1904
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:12 pm

LabQuest wrote:
The USA can only refine about 10~ million barrels a day for gasoline. All other oil is sold on the open market to the highest bidder. This has been going on for years and doesn't change anything about our reliance or sale of strategic oil. We have more oil stored in the SPR today than we did under any time under Trump.

This is a nothing burger.


Well not exactly true -

"operating atmospheric crude oil distillation capacity (refinery capacity) was 17.68 million barrels per day". Google

We might be able to produce only 10 million barrels a day of GASOLINE but refineries produce all kinds of other fuels - jet, diesel, heating oil, residual fuel oil. About 8 million barrels a day of those other products

The US is the largest oil producer in the world at 11.91 million barrels a day but we consume around 17 million bbls of crude per day.

So no - any oil being exported could have been refined in the US. It wasn't because the highest bidder was a foreign company. This exporting of oil and natural gas increases the price of energy for US consumers which is why many in Congress want to halt exports.
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 1904
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:21 pm

[The SPR is far from depleted. Per the article above the current amount is around 538 million barrels. We still have a lot more oil left.

Image[/quote]

Well it will be a lot lower in 4 months as Biden is releasing 1 million barrels a day from the SPR. This has been going on for about 2 months already and will run for another 120 days. The SPR will have around 410 million barrels when this "unprecedented" release is over.

CNBC - “The scale of this release is unprecedented: the world has never had a release of oil reserves at this 1 million per day rate for this length of time,” the White House said in a release. “This record release will provide a historic amount of supply to serve as bridge until the end of the year when domestic production ramps up.” https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/31/us-to-r ... rices.html

Biden strategy is working as this release and somewhat weakening demand is what is causing oil and fuel prices to drop. What happens in 120 days will be interesting.

Biden is also approving leases in Alaska that if drilled will provide alot of domestic crude in a couple of years. This action should also serve to tamp down speculation. It's driving his supporters crazy though.
Last edited by MohawkWeekend on Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
alfa164
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:22 pm

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
I cannot believe this is not getting more attention, but Biden sold 1 million barrels of oil to China, specifically to a company his son Hunter has invested in. How can this not be investigated and prosecuted? https://intellectualtakeout.org/2022/07 ... m-reserve/


Believe it. This does not deserve more attention; your insinuations have already been debunked:

"In short, in an attempt to lower gas prices, the United States really did release millions of barrels of oil from a national stockpile, called the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR), to be sold on the global market in June 2022. Once this oil was “released,” it went up for auction for energy companies to purchase, and once the oil was purchased, it was shipped around the globe. Among several countries that received the shipments was China. But industry experts noted that this was not unusual; The United States often exports oil to that country, or overseas in general. Also, under federal laws, the government cannot dictate where oil gets shipped once companies purchase it. So while some oil was indeed shipped from the U.S. to China in 2022, this wasn’t directly decided by the Biden administration."

"As for Hunter Biden’s connection to these rumors, the president’s son used to be a member of an equity firm that once purchased a stake in an oil company owned by the Chinese government. In 2022, that company, Sinopec, purchased oil from the above-mentioned U.S. oil reserve, the SPR, via its American-based company, Unipec. However, Hunter was no longer a member of the equity firm at the time of that sale, and there was no evidence that Sinopec received oil via the SPR for any other reason than it submitted one of the highest bids to pay for its barrels."



https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/07/12/biden-oil-china/


GDB wrote:
Another poor attempt from conspiracy central, where common sense and if they get their way, democracy, goes to die.


What else would you expect from a "news source" with ties to the Koch brothers.?


https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Intellectual_Takeout


FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
How can this not be investigated and prosecuted?


What, pray tell,do you suggest be "investigated and prosecuted"? An administration that, in a 180-degree-turn from the previous cabal, is following the statutes and the law?
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 15670
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:32 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
[The SPR is far from depleted. Per the article above the current amount is around 538 million barrels. We still have a lot more oil left.

Image


Well it will be a lot lower in 4 months as Biden is releasing 1 million barrels a day from the SPR. This has been going on for about 2 months already and will run for another 120 days. The SPR will have around 410 million barrels when this "unprecedented" release is over.

CNBC - “The scale of this release is unprecedented: the world has never had a release of oil reserves at this 1 million per day rate for this length of time,” the White House said in a release. “This record release will provide a historic amount of supply to serve as bridge until the end of the year when domestic production ramps up.” https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/31/us-to-r ... rices.html

Biden strategy is working as this release and somewhat weakening demand is what is causing oil and fuel prices to drop. What happens in 120 days will be interesting.

Biden is also approving leases in Alaska that if drilled will provide alot of domestic crude in a couple of years. This action should also serve to tamp down speculation. It's driving his supporters crazy though.[/quote]

The purpose of the SPR is to handle supply demand issues of oil to keep the economy going, so why are people upset when it is being used as designed?

by your own math it will take over a year to deplete it, and by then production will be higher, and oil will be cheaper allowing the US to make a buck on the whole deal.

So again why is this bad?
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
Topic Author
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:41 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:04 pm

My whole point is why sell it at all? Shouldn't it have been kept in the USA and refined here for use by Americans? Gas prices are killing us here. My next door neighbor just spent over $200 to fill up his GMC Yukon. With closing all those oil pipelines, and environmental regulations on drilling it's killing the industry and causing these sky high oil prices.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 15670
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:09 pm

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
My whole point is why sell it at all? Shouldn't it have been kept in the USA and refined here for use by Americans? Gas prices are killing us here. My next door neighbor just spent over $200 to fill up his GMC Yukon. With closing all those oil pipelines, and environmental regulations on drilling it's killing the industry and causing these sky high oil prices.


Why?
Oil prices are set on the Global markets. Releasing oil supplies helps drive down the prices keeping demand up. Who cares if it goes to China, or the US? The US is still importing and exporting oil as part of the world market. The oil goes where the demand is the highest.
And your next door neighbor has a Yukon for what purpose? To waste money on an overprices POS in the first place, or to waste money on gas ?
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
Topic Author
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:41 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:17 pm

casinterest wrote:
FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
My whole point is why sell it at all? Shouldn't it have been kept in the USA and refined here for use by Americans? Gas prices are killing us here. My next door neighbor just spent over $200 to fill up his GMC Yukon. With closing all those oil pipelines, and environmental regulations on drilling it's killing the industry and causing these sky high oil prices.


Why?
Oil prices are set on the Global markets. Releasing oil supplies helps drive down the prices keeping demand up. Who cares if it goes to China, or the US? The US is still importing and exporting oil as part of the world market. The oil goes where the demand is the highest.
And your next door neighbor has a Yukon for what purpose? To waste money on an overprices POS in the first place, or to waste money on gas ?


With all due respect why should the USA care about global oil prices where we have the capability to drill here, refine here and not care about the rest of the world and oil supplies globally. Global oil should be irrelevant to us, if we have our own supplies. The US is too dependent on foreign oil. We don't need to be. Enough oil here to last 150 years, just need to drill. Yes my neighbor does need a GMK Yukon because he has 4 kids, they need the space.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 15670
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:25 pm

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
casinterest wrote:
FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
My whole point is why sell it at all? Shouldn't it have been kept in the USA and refined here for use by Americans? Gas prices are killing us here. My next door neighbor just spent over $200 to fill up his GMC Yukon. With closing all those oil pipelines, and environmental regulations on drilling it's killing the industry and causing these sky high oil prices.


Why?
Oil prices are set on the Global markets. Releasing oil supplies helps drive down the prices keeping demand up. Who cares if it goes to China, or the US? The US is still importing and exporting oil as part of the world market. The oil goes where the demand is the highest.
And your next door neighbor has a Yukon for what purpose? To waste money on an overprices POS in the first place, or to waste money on gas ?


With all due respect why should the USA care about global oil prices where we have the capability to drill here, refine here and not care about the rest of the world and oil supplies globally. Global oil should be irrelevant to us, if we have our own supplies. The US is too dependent on foreign oil. We don't need to be. Enough oil here to last 150 years, just need to drill. Yes my neighbor does need a GMK Yukon because he has 4 kids, they need the space.



Not all oil is created equally and as cheaply. Oil from the Mideast is some of the cheapest and most abundant in the world. However fracking was able to compete when oil was originally at 80-140 dollars a barrel. That oil helped create the oil price plummet of 2014 to 2022. Now we are in an era where OPEC doesn't want to flood the market with oil, and the frackers don't either, as they all remember how prices collapsed. The US Strategic Petroleum reserve is only acting as needed to add oil to the economy. Not determine where it goes. The people that are all about US oil production forget that US oil is very expensive compared to other oil sources, and doesn't have the right composition for many refineries.
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 1904
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:04 pm

The SPR was never created to manipulate the price of oil. AND that's exactly what it's being used for now.

The export of oil and natural gas DOES increase the price to US consumers. Oil companies on the other hand make out like bandits. It's actually cheaper to buy a $100 barrel of oil from Nigeria and ship it in a foreign flag vessel to NY than it is to buy a $100 barrel of US oil in Galveston and ship via US flag vessel to NY.

We had such a surplus of natural gas that prices here dropped. But the price of natural gas is way higher in Asia and Europe. So instead, we waste 20% of that natural gas to create the energy needed to liquify it and then ship it 5000 miles away. Who profits - the oil company. Our surplus is gone and your gas bill goes up. I'm still shocked Obama approved that change in US law. We are paying for it every day..
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 15670
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:24 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
The SPR was never created to manipulate the price of oil. AND that's exactly what it's being used for now.

The export of oil and natural gas DOES increase the price to US consumers. Oil companies on the other hand make out like bandits. It's actually cheaper to buy a $100 barrel of oil from Nigeria and ship it in a foreign flag vessel to NY than it is to buy a $100 barrel of US oil in Galveston and ship via US flag vessel to NY.

We had such a surplus of natural gas that prices here dropped. But the price of natural gas is way higher in Asia and Europe. So instead, we waste 20% of that natural gas to create the energy needed to liquify it and then ship it 5000 miles away. Who profits - the oil company. Our surplus is gone and your gas bill goes up. I'm still shocked Obama approved that change in US law. We are paying for it every day..



No the SPR was created out of the OPEC OIL embargo where they created a Supply issue and the US was caught off guard.
We now have a supply issue of another side. The Pandemic forced wells to be shut down and production to be lessened. Demand returned far faster than the Oil companies could hire and reopen wells.

The SPR is being used to help cover that demand supply imbalance. The SPR is being used EXACTLY for what it was designed to do .
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 14298
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:28 pm

c933103 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Russia energy export to China is capacity limited, like they only have one single gas pipeline, I am not sure about energy but I don't think they can export much more than what they already exported


There is a fleet 15 of ARC7 LNG carriers running between Yamal and China today. There's about 20 more under construction, some of these vessels were for SovComFlot, they have been re-flagged and will be owned and operated by Japanese and Chinese companies. There will be over 30 vessels on this route fairly soon.

Then maybe the US and Canada should race to increase petroleum export facility and ships in order to drive Russian gases out of competition, shipping across the Pacific should be much more economical than shipping across Arctic and Bering Straits, or via Indian Ocean


It would take a fair few years to build up a decent sized fleet to run the Russians out of business. Yamal is pretty cheap gas, produced below US production costs.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 12125
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:31 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
The SPR was never created to manipulate the price of oil. AND that's exactly what it's being used for now.

Correct, the reserve is supposed to be for times when oil supply is at risk. Supply was too tight though, mostly due to the restrictions imposed on Russian supplies. However, the idea that it is not going to "manipulate the price of oil" is ludicrous as any massive addition of oil into the global market will have an impact on prices (of course it will).

Everything oil impacts everything oil.



MohawkWeekend wrote:
We had such a surplus of natural gas that prices here dropped. But the price of natural gas is way higher in Asia and Europe. So instead, we waste 20% of that natural gas to create the energy needed to liquify it and then ship it 5000 miles away. Who profits - the oil company. Our surplus is gone and your gas bill goes up.

Free market baby. Well sort of. There was also the Saudi squeeze play with them not reducing OPEC oil production that was designed to make fracking oil less profitable. And this did happen, and though still a money maker, it wasn't enough for highly leveraged wildcatters and new entrants that had been a driving force for "drill baby drill". They needed to produce and sell to pay their bills. Then when the pandemic happened and the market shifted even further and demand crashed as well as prices, many had to shut down or went bankrupt. Only to be snapped up by the large oil companies. And those same companies are able to manage production volume, wisely withholding production as needed to drive improved profits. Who cares if the consumer is affected? It the free market. (And now we get back to the USG trying to do the only thing is can to increased supplies...)

MohawkWeekend wrote:
I'm still shocked Obama approved that change in US law. We are paying for it every day..

Because it was part of a $1.1T omnibus spending bill and he had little choice and legislators worked hard to get him not veto it, adding various sweeteners etc.As well as, at the time, decently strong evidence that eliminating the restriction would actually improve prices for US consumers.
https://www.investors.com/news/oil-expo ... -obama-ok/

But the free market is the free market and when industries are able to consolidate and control production, they will push to manage the market while also improving profits (Which is what OPEC does too). Right now the market is under numerous influences outside its control and is not able to rebalance as desired. The profits are good though so they will ride it out just fine.

casinterest wrote:
The Pandemic forced wells to be shut down and production to be lessened. Demand returned far faster than the Oil companies could hire and reopen wells.

Not really, see above. It is the fact that "big oil" now has regained market control and will not repoen wells (at least not like they had been). They will be held as assets for later balanced production needs.

Tugg
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 14298
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:37 pm

luckyone wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Russia energy export to China is capacity limited, like they only have one single gas pipeline, I am not sure about energy but I don't think they can export much more than what they already exported


There is a fleet 15 of ARC7 LNG carriers running between Yamal and China today. There's about 20 more under construction, some of these vessels were for SovComFlot, they have been re-flagged and will be owned and operated by Japanese and Chinese companies. There will be over 30 vessels on this route fairly soon.

What does that route look like, and is it a route that can be operated year-round?


ARC7 tankers are ice breakers, they can run the route year round. When the ice is too heavy Russia brings out the big guns the nuclear icebreaker fleet. The new tankers under construction are much more powerful and will be able to run without the need of ice breaker assistance.
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
Topic Author
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:41 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:41 pm

But lets just say that we reopen the keystone pipeline, and reopen all the drilling permits Biden canceled. Open up new drilling, off the coast of California, Alaska, Montana etc. There is PLENTY of oil right here in the USA. We DO NOT need to be involved in the foreign oil market what so ever.
We produce our own, refine our own burn our own. If OPEC wants to shut down, yea go ahead let us know how it works out for you. We should have done this 20 years ago, right after 9/11. We should have seen how vulnerable our country is to a decrease in supply and even then we knew high oil prices will cause inflation.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 12125
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:58 pm

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
But lets just say that we reopen the keystone pipeline, and reopen all the drilling permits Biden canceled. Open up new drilling, off the coast of California, Alaska, Montana etc. There is PLENTY of oil right here in the USA. We DO NOT need to be involved in the foreign oil market what so ever.
We produce our own, refine our own burn our own. If OPEC wants to shut down, yea go ahead let us know how it works out for you. We should have done this 20 years ago, right after 9/11. We should have seen how vulnerable our country is to a decrease in supply and even then we knew high oil prices will cause inflation.

What we need is NUCLEAR... I'm rooting for Natrium.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/17/bill-ga ... -town.html

Tugg
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 11455
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:06 pm

casinterest wrote:
We now have a supply issue of another side. The Pandemic forced wells to be shut down and production to be lessened.

Do not think it was only the pandemic, the high price previously saw the "crackers" emerge in full force, however, now they are limited in returning to operations due to new policies and procedures, so a perfect storm.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1837
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:01 pm

Why the US would think it was a “good idea” to export oil and gas (which is a brand new thing) I will never know.
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 1904
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:53 pm

Tugger wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
The SPR was never created to manipulate the price of oil. AND that's exactly what it's being used for now.

Correct, the reserve is supposed to be for times when oil supply is at risk. Supply was too tight though, mostly due to the restrictions imposed on Russian supplies. However, the idea that it is not going to "manipulate the price of oil" is ludicrous as any massive addition of oil into the global market will have an impact on prices (of course it will).

Everything oil impacts everything oil.



MohawkWeekend wrote:
We had such a surplus of natural gas that prices here dropped. But the price of natural gas is way higher in Asia and Europe. So instead, we waste 20% of that natural gas to create the energy needed to liquify it and then ship it 5000 miles away. Who profits - the oil company. Our surplus is gone and your gas bill goes up.

Free market baby. Well sort of. There was also the Saudi squeeze play with them not reducing OPEC oil production that was designed to make fracking oil less profitable. And this did happen, and though still a money maker, it wasn't enough for highly leveraged wildcatters and new entrants that had been a driving force for "drill baby drill". They needed to produce and sell to pay their bills. Then when the pandemic happened and the market shifted even further and demand crashed as well as prices, many had to shut down or went bankrupt. Only to be snapped up by the large oil companies. And those same companies are able to manage production volume, wisely withholding production as needed to drive improved profits. Who cares if the consumer is affected? It the free market. (And now we get back to the USG trying to do the only thing is can to increased supplies...)

MohawkWeekend wrote:
I'm still shocked Obama approved that change in US law. We are paying for it every day..

Because it was part of a $1.1T omnibus spending bill and he had little choice and legislators worked hard to get him not veto it, adding various sweeteners etc.As well as, at the time, decently strong evidence that eliminating the restriction would actually improve prices for US consumers.
https://www.investors.com/news/oil-expo ... -obama-ok/

But the free market is the free market and when industries are able to consolidate and control production, they will push to manage the market while also improving profits (Which is what OPEC does too). Right now the market is under numerous influences outside its control and is not able to rebalance as desired. The profits are good though so they will ride it out just fine.

casinterest wrote:
The Pandemic forced wells to be shut down and production to be lessened. Demand returned far faster than the Oil companies could hire and reopen wells.

Not really, see above. It is the fact that "big oil" now has regained market control and will not repoen wells (at least not like they had been). They will be held as assets for later balanced production needs.

Tugg


Tugg - Your points are all good and spot on except for one. "Big" Oil has been the biggest seller of shale oil acreage in the US. In fact, "Big Oil" is doing everything it can to reduce drilling in the US due to the political environment and high costs (for them). The oil and gas being found in the US is by small to medium sized companies with much lower cost structures. So no - BIG Oil is not manipulating the US natural gas and oil market - companies like Firebird and Apache are the new US drillers.

"FireBird Snags Chevron Permian Midland Properties " https://www.naturalgasintel.com/firebir ... roperties/
"Exxon launches sale of shale gas properties in Texas" https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 021-11-15/
"U.S. shale oil forecasts keep rising as smaller producers lead the way" https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 022-03-02/

BP left Alaska for good selling out to to Hillcorp. Exxon has made a huge find of hydrocarbons offshore of Guyana South America.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 15670
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:31 pm

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
But lets just say that we reopen the keystone pipeline, and reopen all the drilling permits Biden canceled. Open up new drilling, off the coast of California, Alaska, Montana etc. There is PLENTY of oil right here in the USA. We DO NOT need to be involved in the foreign oil market what so ever.
We produce our own, refine our own burn our own. If OPEC wants to shut down, yea go ahead let us know how it works out for you. We should have done this 20 years ago, right after 9/11. We should have seen how vulnerable our country is to a decrease in supply and even then we knew high oil prices will cause inflation.


What does it get us? More expensive oil? We burn all of ours while OPEC waits it out to get us in the future?

Our own oil ramp up is part of the issue. We are producing Oil at a rate that is higher than 98 out of the last 102 years , and we are still waiting for capacity to come online.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... RFPUS2&f=M


Money and trade talk, and it makes no sense to expend all of our effort while others wait for us to burn up all of our resources at once. That is why free trade works out.

We don't need to do all of our own oil. We need some energy diversification so that we can have different technologies available to supply the energy instead of putting all the eggs in the Fossil Fuel basket. Ou
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 6686
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:15 pm

casinterest wrote:
We now have a supply issue of another side. The Pandemic forced wells to be shut down and production to be lessened.

Wasn't it mainly logistic bottle neck? Which cause gas price in the US is now falling but the shortage in Europe further tighten?
par13del wrote:
Do not think it was only the pandemic, the high price previously saw the "crackers" emerge in full force, however, now they are limited in returning to operations due to new policies and procedures, so a perfect storm.

My understanding is, the pandemic caused suppressed demand and lowered the energy price in past two years which can be said as a cause of them shutting down, and then as investors see those operating companies going bankrupt they are now much more financially conservative on what to start or restart?
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 6686
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:16 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

There is a fleet 15 of ARC7 LNG carriers running between Yamal and China today. There's about 20 more under construction, some of these vessels were for SovComFlot, they have been re-flagged and will be owned and operated by Japanese and Chinese companies. There will be over 30 vessels on this route fairly soon.

Then maybe the US and Canada should race to increase petroleum export facility and ships in order to drive Russian gases out of competition, shipping across the Pacific should be much more economical than shipping across Arctic and Bering Straits, or via Indian Ocean


It would take a fair few years to build up a decent sized fleet to run the Russians out of business. Yamal is pretty cheap gas, produced below US production costs.

How long have the Russian fleet been under construction?
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 12125
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:03 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Tugg - Your points are all good and spot on except for one. "Big" Oil has been the biggest seller of shale oil acreage in the US. In fact, "Big Oil" is doing everything it can to reduce drilling in the US due to the political environment and high costs (for them). The oil and gas being found in the US is by small to medium sized companies with much lower cost structures. So no - BIG Oil is not manipulating the US natural gas and oil market - companies like Firebird and Apache are the new US drillers.

"FireBird Snags Chevron Permian Midland Properties " https://www.naturalgasintel.com/firebir ... roperties/
"Exxon launches sale of shale gas properties in Texas" https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 021-11-15/
"U.S. shale oil forecasts keep rising as smaller producers lead the way" https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 022-03-02/

BP left Alaska for good selling out to to Hillcorp. Exxon has made a huge find of hydrocarbons offshore of Guyana South America.

Thanks for the the more current info. I must admit I was basing my thinking on things I read when oil had its COVID crash and several operators were snapped up by the larger oil companies. But yes, I am reading more an more that the investors in the frackers are demanding better return, more "show me the money" and not just "Drill baby".

Thanks again.
Tugg
 
Dazed767
Posts: 5009
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:55 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Thu Jul 14, 2022 6:50 am

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
But lets just say that we reopen the keystone pipeline, and reopen all the drilling permits Biden canceled.


From the refineries, most of the oil would have been sent overseas, not to gas pumps in the U.S.
The Biden administration approved 3,557 permits for oil and gas drilling on public lands in its first year, outpacing the Trump administration’s first-year total of 2,658.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 21232
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:49 am

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
But lets just say that we reopen the keystone pipeline, and reopen all the drilling permits Biden canceled. Open up new drilling, off the coast of California, Alaska, Montana etc. There is PLENTY of oil right here in the USA. We DO NOT need to be involved in the foreign oil market what so ever.
We produce our own, refine our own burn our own. If OPEC wants to shut down, yea go ahead let us know how it works out for you. We should have done this 20 years ago, right after 9/11. We should have seen how vulnerable our country is to a decrease in supply and even then we knew high oil prices will cause inflation.


It just doesn't work like that. Oil is a global commodity produced and traded by global companies.

American oil companies are not limited to operating in the US. They're global companies with operations and partnerships around the World. They're exploring, producing, refining, buying and selling all over the globe. It's naive to think that America could be isolated from the peaks and troughs of the supply and demand cycles of any global commodity.
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 6686
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:46 am

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
But lets just say that we reopen the keystone pipeline, and reopen all the drilling permits Biden canceled. Open up new drilling, off the coast of California, Alaska, Montana etc. There is PLENTY of oil right here in the USA. We DO NOT need to be involved in the foreign oil market what so ever.
We produce our own, refine our own burn our own. If OPEC wants to shut down, yea go ahead let us know how it works out for you. We should have done this 20 years ago, right after 9/11. We should have seen how vulnerable our country is to a decrease in supply and even then we knew high oil prices will cause inflation.

- Keystone still exists. Keystone XL project have been cancelled, but even reverting the cancellation, will still take years for the pipeline to actually be built + for port to provide capacity in accordance.
- Drilling permits haven't been utilized to their maximum, as the low energy price in 2020-early 2021 have sent tons of drilling companies bankrupt that caused people investing into such sector to be much more financially conservative, hence aren't willing to easily expand into new drilling even when they have necessary documents and lands.
- US have enough oil and gas supply for itself, but the problem is Europe, West Pacific, India do not. And those are all that matter. Even ignoring the politics and diplomatic and military side of things, focusing only on economy, supply shortage in other countries around the world will mean oil being shipped from places where they are cheap to places where they are expensive, driving the price up and averaging them out across continent, provided that there are enough capacity unless there is to be an export ban which will be catastrophic especially to Europe.
- High oil price that lead to inflation is not only because of things that happen inside US. Many goods are now manufactured in Asia and Europe and other countries, the cost for factories in those places to produce goods also increase according to increase in energy price, and increase in energy price also make shipping them to the US more expensive.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 14298
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:43 am

c933103 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Then maybe the US and Canada should race to increase petroleum export facility and ships in order to drive Russian gases out of competition, shipping across the Pacific should be much more economical than shipping across Arctic and Bering Straits, or via Indian Ocean


It would take a fair few years to build up a decent sized fleet to run the Russians out of business. Yamal is pretty cheap gas, produced below US production costs.

How long have the Russian fleet been under construction?


The first 15 are already in service, the newer more powerful versions are in various stages of construction, a couple of them have been handed over to owners.
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 6686
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:03 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

It would take a fair few years to build up a decent sized fleet to run the Russians out of business. Yamal is pretty cheap gas, produced below US production costs.

How long have the Russian fleet been under construction?


The first 15 are already in service, the newer more powerful versions are in various stages of construction, a couple of them have been handed over to owners.

I mean when they stared construction?
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 11455
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:19 pm

c933103 wrote:
My understanding is, the pandemic caused suppressed demand and lowered the energy price in past two years which can be said as a cause of them shutting down, and then as investors see those operating companies going bankrupt they are now much more financially conservative on what to start or restart?

Wall Street is awash with cash, the last downturn in production gave the politicians and their activists time to pass a whole lot of additional rules / regulations to make it more difficult for the frackers to restart production even if they have the investors on board.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 14298
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:09 pm

c933103 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
c933103 wrote:
How long have the Russian fleet been under construction?


The first 15 are already in service, the newer more powerful versions are in various stages of construction, a couple of them have been handed over to owners.

I mean when they stared construction?


2019, some of them are being built in Russia at Zvezda Shipyard with Korean help.
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 6686
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:03 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

The first 15 are already in service, the newer more powerful versions are in various stages of construction, a couple of them have been handed over to owners.

I mean when they stared construction?


2019, some of them are being built in Russia at Zvezda Shipyard with Korean help.

Why not use wartime capacity to build more ships and ports now that we know it is the bottleneck?
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 15751
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:36 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Why the US would think it was a “good idea” to export oil and gas (which is a brand new thing) I will never know.


Your politicians have been all about free markets and free trade, for decades (centuries in fact, remember the opening of Japan ?), pushing developing countries to open up even when that had disastrous consequences for them, so at some point they had to apply it to their own country or risk losing credibility.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 15670
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:50 pm

Aesma wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Why the US would think it was a “good idea” to export oil and gas (which is a brand new thing) I will never know.


Your politicians have been all about free markets and free trade, for decades (centuries in fact, remember the opening of Japan ?), pushing developing countries to open up even when that had disastrous consequences for them, so at some point they had to apply it to their own country or risk losing credibility.


LCD Flight probably thinks it's a bad idea to export planes from Boeing or Cars from GM as well.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1837
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Biden sells 1 million barrels of oil to China

Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:02 pm

casinterest wrote:
Aesma wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Why the US would think it was a “good idea” to export oil and gas (which is a brand new thing) I will never know.


Your politicians have been all about free markets and free trade, for decades (centuries in fact, remember the opening of Japan ?), pushing developing countries to open up even when that had disastrous consequences for them, so at some point they had to apply it to their own country or risk losing credibility.


LCD Flight probably thinks it's a bad idea to export planes from Boeing or Cars from GM as well.


Explain how it benefits Americans to be exporting the nation’s natural gas via LNG when the price is over $6.50 per therm domestically???? Is it so we run out faster, or is the idea to heat the planet up more with our country’s resources?

It’s a long cold winter in Buffalo, Chicago and Fargo without natural gas.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aesma, Avatar2go, B717fan, JJJ, LXM83, Tugger and 36 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos