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Avatar2go
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Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:26 pm

Trump has said he had made up his mind on his 2024 Presidential campaign, but is deciding when to announce, before or after the midterms. Also said DeSantis is not a threat and he isn't worried about the competition.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article ... ision.html

If it happens, this will be a new level of insanity in American politics.
 
luckyone
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:09 pm

Who knows with him. He could be holding an announcement to enjoy using PAC money for as long as he likes. He could also announce tomorrow. But I agree, I do not see DeSantis going quietly into the good night.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:13 pm

Trump is getting worried about the GOP trying to move on, so he is trying to muddy the waters, and force loyalty tests.

It will be interesting to see if the GOP decided to go with Putin's favorite traitor in 2024.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:27 pm

Trump has to be careful with his timing of becoming again running for the nomination of the Republican party in 2024 as after any formal announcement any monies raised in his scams before that couldn't be used in the new campaign. Personally I hope the US DOJ, GA, other jurisdictions decide to prosecute and seek felony level criminal charges on Trump and those around him in his attempts to overthrow the election of 2020 he lost.
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:14 am

ltbewr wrote:
Personally I hope the US DOJ, GA, other jurisdictions decide to prosecute and seek felony level criminal charges on Trump and those around him in his attempts to overthrow the election of 2020 he lost.



He would have to be convicted to be disqualified, a conviction will NEVER happen. You would never find an impartial jury to even hear the trial. Trumps attorneys could keep this tied up in litigation for a decade. Trump is the likely GOP nominee as he is extremely popular and quite possibly the next POTUS.
 
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NIKV69
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:14 am

Publicity stunt. I don't think he is running for President.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:26 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Publicity stunt. I don't think he is running for President.



He needs to keep his Grift going longer. See how many suckers out there keep giving $45 to 45
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 3:52 am

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

He would have to be convicted to be disqualified, a conviction will NEVER happen. You would never find an impartial jury to even hear the trial. Trumps attorneys could keep this tied up in litigation for a decade. Trump is the likely GOP nominee as he is extremely popular and quite possibly the next POTUS.


I suspect his popularity among Republicans, is due to a dearth of anyone of stature to run against him. He's been pretty careful to put down anyone that stands up to him. It's what happens in political organizations when they become dominated by one figure. Putin is a good example. And why that phenomenon is bad for democracy.

I thought Pence might have a shot, as he comes off as the defender of the electoral process in the Jan 6 hearings. But I guess within the party, that is a negative rather than a positive.

If Trump is the nominee, the effort to defeat him will be phenomenal, unprecedented in US history. Probably supported by most of the free world. Outside of his party, literally no one wants him back.

For that reason, I think the Republican party regulars will work in the background to unseat him. Once he's out, the damage he can do to his opponents in the party will be limited. That will be easier if the DoJ brings charges against him. But we'll have to see.
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:54 am

casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Publicity stunt. I don't think he is running for President.



He needs to keep his Grift going longer. See how many suckers out there keep giving $45 to 45


He has his grift

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... -rcna37693

As long as he can also keep selling his Chinese made MAGA products, he is fine, financially. His "fans" will still pay $300 or more to stay in one of his hotels, too, so there is that.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:25 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Publicity stunt. I don't think he is running for President.

That’s what I think as well. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO BE SURE THE TRUMP ERA IS OVER!!!

I am hoping the GOP will nominate Nikki Haley. And that the Democrats will find a fresh new candidate.

With all these challenges ahead we need a strong and UNITED states of America.
 
johns624
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:44 pm

N14AZ wrote:
And that the Democrats will find a fresh new candidate.
Biden needs to quit his games and announce that he's not running for another term so the party can start the shakeout of possible candidates. He'll be too old and everyone knows it but him.
 
art
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:00 pm

Can a person who tried to pervert the results of an election for public office take part in further elections for public office?
 
AeroVega
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:18 pm

johns624 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
And that the Democrats will find a fresh new candidate.
Biden needs to quit his games and announce that he's not running for another term so the party can start the shakeout of possible candidates. He'll be too old and everyone knows it but him.


The Democratic candidate will lose no matter who it is. The best democratic voters can do is switch to the Republican side and make sure anyone but Trump becomes the Republican candidate.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:11 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Publicity stunt. I don't think he is running for President.


Well it was a publicity stunt the first time around. Enough idiots believed in it and he ended up president, with no ideas or plans about the situation.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 3:27 pm

seb146 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Publicity stunt. I don't think he is running for President.



He needs to keep his Grift going longer. See how many suckers out there keep giving $45 to 45


He has his grift

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... -rcna37693

As long as he can also keep selling his Chinese made MAGA products, he is fine, financially. His "fans" will still pay $300 or more to stay in one of his hotels, too, so there is that.

Yeah, but a lot of his grift will go away if he doesn't run for President.
 
af773atmsp
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:00 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Trump has to be careful with his timing of becoming again running for the nomination of the Republican party in 2024 as after any formal announcement any monies raised in his scams before that couldn't be used in the new campaign. Personally I hope the US DOJ, GA, other jurisdictions decide to prosecute and seek felony level criminal charges on Trump and those around him in his attempts to overthrow the election of 2020 he lost.


Trump doesn't know the word careful.

After what happened in 2016 I expect anything to happen at this point. If he gets the nomination and loses in 2024 I wouldn't be surprised if there's a second round of "stopping the steal" at the Capitol.
 
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ER757
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:00 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Publicity stunt. I don't think he is running for President.

I could not disagree more. This is the guy who truly believes he should still be POTUS and he wants a chance to get back what he (wrongly) thinks is his. I sincerely hope the Republicans will run more suitable candidates against him in the primaries and he fails to get the nomination. I'd really love to see him convicted of crimes he certainly committed but as another poster has stated, that's a pipe dream. I'd also like to see the Dems put up a viable candidate as well - Biden needs to announce he isn't running in 2024.
 
johns624
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:10 pm

AeroVega wrote:
johns624 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
And that the Democrats will find a fresh new candidate.
Biden needs to quit his games and announce that he's not running for another term so the party can start the shakeout of possible candidates. He'll be too old and everyone knows it but him.


The Democratic candidate will lose no matter who it is. The best democratic voters can do is switch to the Republican side and make sure anyone but Trump becomes the Republican candidate.
Not if Trump is the candidate. You'll get out the same big group of "occasional voters" that turned out in 2020, just to keep him out.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:35 pm

johns624 wrote:
AeroVega wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Biden needs to quit his games and announce that he's not running for another term so the party can start the shakeout of possible candidates. He'll be too old and everyone knows it but him.


The Democratic candidate will lose no matter who it is. The best democratic voters can do is switch to the Republican side and make sure anyone but Trump becomes the Republican candidate.
Not if Trump is the candidate. You'll get out the same big group of "occasional voters" that turned out in 2020, just to keep him out.

But these occasional voters might be disappointed by Biden‘s performance and I am not sure they will vote again. If they are clever enough they will understand that inflation etc is not caused by Biden… but if not…
 
johns624
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:40 pm

N14AZ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
AeroVega wrote:

The Democratic candidate will lose no matter who it is. The best democratic voters can do is switch to the Republican side and make sure anyone but Trump becomes the Republican candidate.
Not if Trump is the candidate. You'll get out the same big group of "occasional voters" that turned out in 2020, just to keep him out.

But these occasional voters might be disappointed by Biden‘s performance and I am not sure they will vote again. If they are clever enough they will understand that inflation etc is not caused by Biden… but if not…
Which is why Biden needs to bow out gracefully as soon as possible. He'll be 80 later on this year.
 
Pi7472000
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:42 pm

So awful our Choices may be two elderly men. Biden did his job by winning and getting Trump out of office, but we need a new candidate that is able to handle the demands of this century. Biden is not able to be the person we need during these challenging times. There are so many other Democrats we could choose from. It is disgusting Trump would even consider running again and shows the decline of U.S. He was awful. I will make sure to vote blue/progressive this fall to help Democrats hold the Senate which is so important for judicial nominations.
 
AeroVega
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:53 pm

johns624 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Not if Trump is the candidate. You'll get out the same big group of "occasional voters" that turned out in 2020, just to keep him out.

But these occasional voters might be disappointed by Biden‘s performance and I am not sure they will vote again. If they are clever enough they will understand that inflation etc is not caused by Biden… but if not…
Which is why Biden needs to bow out gracefully as soon as possible. He'll be 80 later on this year.


"It's the economy, stupid!"

Unless the economic situation magically improves over the next two years, there is no way that a Democratic candidate can win.
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:23 pm

AeroVega wrote:
johns624 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
But these occasional voters might be disappointed by Biden‘s performance and I am not sure they will vote again. If they are clever enough they will understand that inflation etc is not caused by Biden… but if not…
Which is why Biden needs to bow out gracefully as soon as possible. He'll be 80 later on this year.


"It's the economy, stupid!"

Unless the economic situation magically improves over the next two years, there is no way that a Democratic candidate can win.


Looking at how the Republican courts a chipping away at democracy and, yet, the economy is improving and, the fact that Republicans support the attempted coup of January 6 all means Democrats could win.

But, with Republican legislatures deciding who they want installed, instead of agreeing with the will of the people, democracy and the republic are dead.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:31 pm

Do the American people really not learn from their mistakes? :stirthepot:
 
victrola
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:41 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Do the American people really not learn from their mistakes? :stirthepot:


No. Trump will definitely run again in 2024. And he will probably win. I always wondered how the Nazis came to power in 1933. I now understand, Americans are incredibly ignorant provincial people driven more by their emotions rather than rational thought.
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:41 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Do the American people really not learn from their mistakes? :stirthepot:


It's not the American people, though. It is one party who wants to make this mistake again.
 
johns624
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:21 pm

victrola wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Do the American people really not learn from their mistakes? :stirthepot:


No. Trump will definitely run again in 2024. And he will probably win. I always wondered how the Nazis came to power in 1933. I now understand, Americans are incredibly ignorant provincial people driven more by their emotions rather than rational thought.
He'll be almost 79 years old when he would assume office. Not to mention that his health, especially mental, could go downhill quite a bit before then.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:24 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Do the American people really not learn from their mistakes? :stirthepot:


Conservatives, who make up roughly 25% to 40% of the population (depending on issue), don't see these events as a mistake. They've been conditioned by 30 years of toxic & corrosive commentary, to believe that no matter how bad their side is, the other side is worse. It's how a political party can justify any action. Ends justify the means.

The remaining 75% to 60%, are fairly appalled by events, and this is the group represented in the Jan 6 hearings. But they won't control who the conservative candidate is. If Trump is the nominee, he won't win. But there's a good chance that another conservative nominee could win.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:07 pm

He should get back with Ivanna. Now.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:56 am

Avatar2go wrote:
[If Trump is the nominee, he won't win. But there's a good chance that another conservative nominee could win.


I wouldn’t be so sure of that.

In 2020 Biden won the popular vote by 4.4%, but the margin of victory for Biden in WI, GA and AZ was less than 0.6%. If Trump had performed just 0.6% better in those 3 states he would’ve won them and 269 electoral votes, which combined with a GOP state majority in the House would have given him the Presidency even though he would’ve lost the popular vote by 3.8%, approximately 6 million votes.

And that was after 4 years of lying, stuff ups, and a terribly handled pandemic, and he only lost by a tiny amount. Now I really can’t see Biden getting 81 million votes again this time around if he runs. Even though it’s likely the Democratic candidate will receive more popular votes than the Republican I can’t see Biden holding WI, GA and AZ, especially since those states (MI and PA for good measure too) have gerrymandered GOP legislatures and if Moore vs Harper gets up they have carte blanche to rig elections as much as they want.
 
marcelh
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sat Jul 16, 2022 10:14 am

johns624 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
And that the Democrats will find a fresh new candidate.
Biden needs to quit his games and announce that he's not running for another term so the party can start the shakeout of possible candidates. He'll be too old and everyone knows it but him.

At least he doesn’t want to steal an election.
 
johns624
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:51 pm

marcelh wrote:
johns624 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
And that the Democrats will find a fresh new candidate.
Biden needs to quit his games and announce that he's not running for another term so the party can start the shakeout of possible candidates. He'll be too old and everyone knows it but him.

At least he doesn’t want to steal an election.
That has nothing to do with what I said. We're not talking about 1.5 years in the past but 2.5 years in the future.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:08 pm

johns624 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Biden needs to quit his games and announce that he's not running for another term so the party can start the shakeout of possible candidates. He'll be too old and everyone knows it but him.

At least he doesn’t want to steal an election.
That has nothing to do with what I said. We're not talking about 1.5 years in the past but 2.5 years in the future.

What makes you think the same won’t happen 2,5 years in the future?
Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.
It’s republicans trying to hide/change history, not the democrats.
 
johns624
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:10 pm

petertenthije wrote:
johns624 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
At least he doesn’t want to steal an election.
That has nothing to do with what I said. We're not talking about 1.5 years in the past but 2.5 years in the future.

What makes you think the same won’t happen 2,5 years in the future?
Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.
It’s republicans trying to hide/change history, not the democrats.
Once again, I'm merely saying that Biden will be too old and the sooner he bows out, the sooner the Democrats can start looking for a viable candidate.
I could insert something in here, like many EU people do, along the lines of "you don't live here, why do you care about our internal politics", but I won't. :D :stirthepot:
 
bennett123
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:34 pm

johns624 wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
johns624 wrote:
That has nothing to do with what I said. We're not talking about 1.5 years in the past but 2.5 years in the future.

What makes you think the same won’t happen 2,5 years in the future?
Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.
It’s republicans trying to hide/change history, not the democrats.
Once again, I'm merely saying that Biden will be too old and the sooner he bows out, the sooner the Democrats can start looking for a viable candidate.
I could insert something in here, like many EU people do, along the lines of "you don't live here, why do you care about our internal politics", but I won't. :D :stirthepot:


I thought this topic was about Trump?.
 
phluser
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:07 pm

N14AZ wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Publicity stunt. I don't think he is running for President.

That’s what I think as well. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO BE SURE THE TRUMP ERA IS OVER!!!

I am hoping the GOP will nominate Nikki Haley. And that the Democrats will find a fresh new candidate.

With all these challenges ahead we need a strong and UNITED states of America.


Nikki Haley would be the best choice for Democrats that don't want Biden or Harris but might be stuck with them, and if the Republican side had these other choices:
Trump
DeSantis
Abbott
Cruz
Hawley

While she would take aim at the Democrats for everything wrong on the economy and appoint conservatives to benches,
a. She would probably still be very pro NATO, Ukraine, anti Putin
b. Wouldn't be a populist and get involved in cultural wars and attacking the media/press/Left
c. As a Sikh convert Christian, but in still loosely connected with Sikh community with family members, she would be more sympathetic to minorities over white nationalist groups.
d. She also called out Trump after 1/6, although still isn't a never Trumper
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:46 pm

Haley is too far to the right, and was too supportive of Trump, until it all blew up. She's far from the moderate Republican the Democrats might support.

The unfortunate reality of the American system, is that candidates tend to emerge from the farther positions of the party. Then the choice left to the majority in the middle, who don't/wouldn't select those candidates, is among two candidates they don't really support.

What's really needed is reform within the parties, which partly means campaign finance reform, so they get back to reflecting the moderate majorities in each party. Then the elections would return to necessarily convincing large numbers of swing voters, which means moving toward the center. That is where the government functions best.

As it is now, with the more extreme interests running things, it tends to be a mess, no matter who is elected. Very difficult to accomplish anything substantial or meaningful.

It legislation doesn't advance, then the courts become involved in trying to interpret old laws in new ways. Which raises the hue and cry of the courts exceeding their bounds, but the courts are not to blame, they only try to deal with the cases that come before them. Many of those cases would not exist with proper legislative action, which requires moderation of positions, and compromise.
 
phluser
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:48 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Haley is too far to the right, and was too supportive of Trump, until it all blew up. She's far from the moderate Republican the Democrats might support.



She is not moderate like Susan Collins or Lisa Murkowski in that sense, but anyways, likely no moderates that supported bi-partisan Democratic legislation directly, would run or make it through the Republican primaries. Haley has intention to run, might get Trump's endorsement in the end which will help her gain support from Republicans, but likely won't make it through the primaries either, so it's somewhat moot.
 
marcelh
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:01 pm

johns624 wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
johns624 wrote:
That has nothing to do with what I said. We're not talking about 1.5 years in the past but 2.5 years in the future.

What makes you think the same won’t happen 2,5 years in the future?
Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.
It’s republicans trying to hide/change history, not the democrats.
Once again, I'm merely saying that Biden will be too old and the sooner he bows out, the sooner the Democrats can start looking for a viable candidate.
I could insert something in here, like many EU people do, along the lines of "you don't live here, why do you care about our internal politics", but I won't. :D :stirthepot:

Your “internal politics” do have consequences for Europe. Something with geopolitics, NATO and so on, so I do care.
 
johns624
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:01 pm

marcelh wrote:
johns624 wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
What makes you think the same won’t happen 2,5 years in the future?
Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.
It’s republicans trying to hide/change history, not the democrats.
Once again, I'm merely saying that Biden will be too old and the sooner he bows out, the sooner the Democrats can start looking for a viable candidate.
I could insert something in here, like many EU people do, along the lines of "you don't live here, why do you care about our internal politics", but I won't. :D :stirthepot:

Your “internal politics” do have consequences for Europe. Something with geopolitics, NATO and so on, so I do care.
The same old tired "we can't stand you but we need you" line. It gets old really fast...
 
petertenthije
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:13 am

johns624 wrote:
The same old tired "we can't stand you but we need you" line. It gets old really fast...

You re overstating it when you say “we can’t stand” the USA.

A lot of Europeans can’t stand Trump. That’s a given. But most Europeans still can look beyond politics.

Looking in from the outside, in no small part through this forum, I get the distinct impression that a good chunk of Americans unfortunately are unable to separate politics from their opinions and day-to-day lives. But that might be better for a separate discussion.
 
johns624
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:55 am

petertenthije wrote:
johns624 wrote:
The same old tired "we can't stand you but we need you" line. It gets old really fast...

You re overstating it when you say “we can’t stand” the USA.

A lot of Europeans can’t stand Trump. That’s a given. But most Europeans still can look beyond politics.

Looking in from the outside, in no small part through this forum, I get the distinct impression that a good chunk of Americans unfortunately are unable to separate politics from their opinions and day-to-day lives. But that might be better for a separate discussion.
The person I quoted and replied to has never been shy about telling everyone what he thought of the US. Don't take my response personally.
 
QF7
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:04 am

petertenthije wrote:
johns624 wrote:
The same old tired "we can't stand you but we need you" line. It gets old really fast...

You re overstating it when you say “we can’t stand” the USA.

A lot of Europeans can’t stand Trump. That’s a given. But most Europeans still can look beyond politics.

Looking in from the outside, in no small part through this forum, I get the distinct impression that a good chunk of Americans unfortunately are unable to separate politics from their opinions and day-to-day lives. But that might be better for a separate discussion.

A relatively small chunk of opinionated Americans are over-represented on internet chat boards. Best advice is to avoid drawing conclusions from a noisy few.

Most Americans live their day-to-day lives, do their jobs, take their kids to school, grill hamburgers on the weekends, and on Election Day go vote and wonder “where did these choices come from?”
 
Vintage
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:47 am

QF7 wrote:
Most Americans live their day-to-day lives, do their jobs, take their kids to school, grill hamburgers on the weekends, and on Election Day go vote and wonder “where did these choices come from?”

In other words, most Americans live in a fog bank.
I'm sure it's the same in Europe; it's more of a human condition.
 
Avatar2go
Topic Author
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:49 am

QF7 wrote:
A relatively small chunk of opinionated Americans are over-represented on internet chat boards. Best advice is to avoid drawing conclusions from a noisy few.

Most Americans live their day-to-day lives, do their jobs, take their kids to school, grill hamburgers on the weekends, and on Election Day go vote and wonder “where did these choices come from?”


In summary, most Americans are moderate. But the two-party system divides & categorizes us, which has happened now even in mainstream media. Except for the declared independents, they have no party or representation. And the parties tend to be more extreme than the majority of members.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:20 am

Avatar2go wrote:
QF7 wrote:
A relatively small chunk of opinionated Americans are over-represented on internet chat boards. Best advice is to avoid drawing conclusions from a noisy few.

Most Americans live their day-to-day lives, do their jobs, take their kids to school, grill hamburgers on the weekends, and on Election Day go vote and wonder “where did these choices come from?”


In summary, most Americans are moderate. But the two-party system divides & categorizes us, which has happened now even in mainstream media. Except for the declared independents, they have no party or representation. And the parties tend to be more extreme than the majority of members.


Which is an interesting perspective. For many Europeans and we in Oceania, the US major parties are centre-right and far-right. The centre-right party has a progressive left wing.

I also see people from the US posting on this forum and shake my head on how some cannot see the decline of democratic systems and the rise of the authoritarian right.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:53 am

Kent350787 wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
QF7 wrote:
A relatively small chunk of opinionated Americans are over-represented on internet chat boards. Best advice is to avoid drawing conclusions from a noisy few.

Most Americans live their day-to-day lives, do their jobs, take their kids to school, grill hamburgers on the weekends, and on Election Day go vote and wonder “where did these choices come from?”


In summary, most Americans are moderate. But the two-party system divides & categorizes us, which has happened now even in mainstream media. Except for the declared independents, they have no party or representation. And the parties tend to be more extreme than the majority of members.


Which is an interesting perspective. For many Europeans and we in Oceania, the US major parties are centre-right and far-right. The centre-right party has a progressive left wing.

I also see people from the US posting on this forum and shake my head on how some cannot see the decline of democratic systems and the rise of the authoritarian right.


It's like the plot of "Othello" writ large, with the role of Desdemona played by the truth, and thus indirectly by democracy. Iago is played by the conservative media.

We have to hope that Desdemona doesn't die in this version, before Iago is exposed. But it's not looking good, if even an attempt to overturn an election is accepted by many. That was a direct assault on Desdemona, yet Iago continues unabated.
 
marcelh
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:27 am

johns624 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Once again, I'm merely saying that Biden will be too old and the sooner he bows out, the sooner the Democrats can start looking for a viable candidate.
I could insert something in here, like many EU people do, along the lines of "you don't live here, why do you care about our internal politics", but I won't. :D :stirthepot:

Your “internal politics” do have consequences for Europe. Something with geopolitics, NATO and so on, so I do care.
The same old tired "we can't stand you but we need you" line. It gets old really fast...


Nope. It’s just you who can’t deal with the “inconvenient truth” of some actions of the US government in the past and -as a result- reacting like you do.
In your opinion you are entitled to criticize those leftist Europeans, but the other way around isn’t allowed.
To make it clear: the US policy to Europe has always been: “we want you to need us”; a more independent Europe/EU wasn’t in the interest of the US. I’ve already posted it in the Ukraine thread, but got deleted because people didn’t like it.
 
marcelh
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Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:13 am

Some background information about how Europe is watching the USA and the “internal politics”.
https://www.voanews.com/amp/usa_biden-says-america-back-us-allies-arent-so-sure/6207225.html

” Biden Says 'America Is Back,' But US Allies Aren't So Sure”

Some interesting parts:

” After four years of the Trump administration, which tore up agreements, trampled norms and antagonized long-standing allies, Biden’s words were greeted warmly. But to many, the promises ring hollow, say experts such as Hans Kundnani, senior research fellow in the European Program at Chatham House, an international affairs think tank in London.

Even as they recognize that international cooperation is essential to solving global problems, Kundnani said, “Europeans don’t see the U.S. as a particularly reliable or consistent partner.”

Bleak message

“Overall, I would say that there is quite a lot of skepticism about this idea that America is ‘back,’ ” he said. “In particular, there is this sense among Europeans ... that maybe another Trumpian president gets elected in four years’ time. I think the shock of Trump, it's hard to forget that.”

It’s a bleak message echoed by experts inside the United States.

“The question of U.S. reliability is going to be a major challenge for the Biden administration,” said Barbara Bodine, former U.S. ambassador to Yemen and a three-decade veteran of the U.S. Foreign Service.

“There has simply got to be in the back of anyone's mind this question: Will any agreement that the United States makes, with either friend or foe, survive another turn of administrations?” she said.

Writing in World Politics Review, Stewart M. Patrick, director of the International Institutions and Global Governance Program at the Council on Foreign Relations, made a similar observation.

"The Trump era cast doubt on U.S. global staying power, encouraging close allies in Europe and Asia to hedge their bets against a suddenly capricious America ... and demolished what little remained of the bipartisan internationalist consensus. Democrats and Republicans now inhabit different foreign policy planets,” he wrote.”


” So, as Biden insists America is back, Kundnani says Europeans are seeing something very different. “What the Europeans are looking at when they look at America is a deeply divided country — deeply polarized in all the ways that we know,” he said.

That has profound consequences for how other countries deal with the U.S. when it comes to long-range planning.”
 
marcelh
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Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Trump deciding to announce 2024 run before or after midterms

Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:52 am

johns624 wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
johns624 wrote:
The same old tired "we can't stand you but we need you" line. It gets old really fast...

You re overstating it when you say “we can’t stand” the USA.

A lot of Europeans can’t stand Trump. That’s a given. But most Europeans still can look beyond politics.

Looking in from the outside, in no small part through this forum, I get the distinct impression that a good chunk of Americans unfortunately are unable to separate politics from their opinions and day-to-day lives. But that might be better for a separate discussion.
The person I quoted and replied to has never been shy about telling everyone what he thought of the US. Don't take my response personally.


True. IMHO the US geopolitical actions has mostly been -and is!- primairily in the interest of the US first and Allies second. I do understand it from a US point of view, but I don’t always agree with it from an European perspective. That perspective is based on facts instead of blinded by patriotism and a bit of self-glorification.

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