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Pi7472000
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Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:41 pm

We are seeing the devastating effects of the human caused climate crisis across the world, and this time the UK and Europe are facing record extremes they have never seen before. Will the climate crisis be like gun control in the U.S. where nothing is ever done and the problem continues to get worse and worse?? We have seen Europe do so much more than the U.S. to try to mitigate climate change as they are more of a science based culture than the U.S.

I will vote blue and progressive this fall to support candidates that do not treat human caused climate change like a hoax and conspiracy theory.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/18/weather/ ... index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/18/weather/ ... index.html
 
M564038
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:06 pm

It’s going to be a rough ride and many changes will have to be made in the coming decades to adapt. As usual, we in the nordics will probably stand to gain from it all. More people will want live and invest in this peaceful corner, winter will be shorter and people will come here for summer vacation with temperatures in the high 20s and low 30s, rather than high 30s and 40s. My summerhouse, separated from the slightly too cold fjord, by a slightly too long hill will be an absolutely premium holiday luxury destination, rather than topping out at 20 with occasional sunshine.

The rest is bad.
 
luckyone
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:10 pm

Human activity may be speeding up the process, but the earth has been hotter without any human activity.
 
M564038
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:14 pm

The earth can take it just fine, human civilization as we know it is not quite as robust and will be facing some real hardship. A real pity there is nothing to be done about it. Don’t look up!
luckyone wrote:
Human activity may be speeding up the process, but the earth has been hotter without any human activity.
Last edited by M564038 on Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
LabQuest
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:14 pm

The truth is most people aren't willing to make the true sacrifices to make a change. Stop buying stuff, stop flying places, stop driving your car, turn off your AC.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:37 pm

luckyone wrote:
Human activity may be speeding up the process, but the earth has been hotter without any human activity.

Yes, remember all the 40°+ summers in 19th century UK, which made it a great place to grow cotton and sugarcane? The regular forest fires of northern Germany, written about in ancient lore? The lush green mountain peaks in the Alps our parents would tell us about?

Never before has Earth's climate changed this rapidly. There is always some variation, of course, but this is unprecedented.
 
luckyone
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:55 pm

mxaxai wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Human activity may be speeding up the process, but the earth has been hotter without any human activity.

Yes, remember all the 40°+ summers in 19th century UK, which made it a great place to grow cotton and sugarcane? The regular forest fires of northern Germany, written about in ancient lore? The lush green mountain peaks in the Alps our parents would tell us about?

Never before has Earth's climate changed this rapidly. There is always some variation, of course, but this is unprecedented.

Actually no it isn't unprecedented, which doesn't discount human activity in speeding up the process. The point is that the earth has been hotter without any human involvement, and it's been colder without any human involvement. We have a rate-influencing effect, but it's naïve to think that we are solely responsible for climate change.

For all its noble intentions, European government's climate change policies aren't going to have any major effect, for many different reasons.
 
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c933103
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:08 pm

While inhibiting climate change is essential, response and mitigation of its effect is also necessary, including introducing technologies like air conditioners across more widespread area or provide additional water resupply facilities across cities to ensure QoL and health of citizens can be more or less maintained despite changes in global environment.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:10 pm

luckyone wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Human activity may be speeding up the process, but the earth has been hotter without any human activity.

Yes, remember all the 40°+ summers in 19th century UK, which made it a great place to grow cotton and sugarcane? The regular forest fires of northern Germany, written about in ancient lore? The lush green mountain peaks in the Alps our parents would tell us about?

Never before has Earth's climate changed this rapidly. There is always some variation, of course, but this is unprecedented.

Actually no it isn't unprecedented, which doesn't discount human activity in speeding up the process. The point is that the earth has been hotter without any human involvement, and it's been colder without any human involvement. We have a rate-influencing effect, but it's naïve to think that we are solely responsible for climate change.

For all its noble intentions, European government's climate change policies aren't going to have any major effect, for many different reasons.


At least they are trying. Carbon Dioxide is a greenhouse gas. It keeps heat from escaping. Our dependence on Fossil fuels is bringing about a massive heating event, that will change the world.
Unfortunately we have far too many people that don't trust experts and want things to stay the same. However nothing stays the same, and with technology and innovation we can solve the CO2 issue if people would give it a chance.

When the planet was hotter or colder than now, it was due to issues with balancing out Oxygen and CO2 with atmospheric issues.
 
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c933103
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:12 pm

LabQuest wrote:
The truth is most people aren't willing to make the true sacrifices to make a change. Stop buying stuff, stop flying places, stop driving your car, turn off your AC.

Recently Japanese government explicitly tell its citizens do not try to save power by keeping the AC off even when necessary as it have led to ten of thousand per day being sent to hospital due to heat stroke, even when Japanese government have issued power supply shortage cautionary watch.
 
johns624
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:30 pm

LabQuest wrote:
The truth is most people aren't willing to make the true sacrifices to make a change. Stop buying stuff, stop flying places, stop driving your car, turn off your AC.
Stop going to silly internet forums. Walk everywhere. Don't heat or cool your house. Let your food rot due to no fridge. Eat less.
 
Kilopond
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:35 pm

[quote="Pi7472000"][...]We have seen Europe do so much more than the U.S. to try to mitigate climate change as they are more of a science based culture than the U.S. ][...]
Wrong. Much too many Europeans are uncritical and just swallow the marxist dialectical materialistic model. In the end, this is nothing but superstition with a pseudo-scientific washing.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:49 pm

c933103 wrote:
Recently Japanese government explicitly tell its citizens do not try to save power by keeping the AC off even when necessary as it have led to ten of thousand per day being sent to hospital due to heat stroke, even when Japanese government have issued power supply shortage cautionary watch.

Imagine how people survived back when AC didn't exist. Oh right, it was rarely as hot as it is these days. I wonder why that might be?
It's a catch-22: We need more AC, more water, more infrastructure to combat the heat now, but if the energy to power all that is coming from fossile sources we're digging ourselves an even deeper grave.

luckyone wrote:
We have a rate-influencing effect, but it's naïve to think that we are solely responsible for climate change.

It has been hotter, yes. However, there was no civilization there to record those temperatures. Maybe a couple of pre-historic humans noticed that their water sources were starting to dry up and migrated to more favorable regions. The current rate of change is unprecedented, excluding perhaps mass extinction events like volcanic eruptions or meteorite impacts.

Earth doesn't care about hot or cold temperatures. Life finds a way. Humans and their fragile civilization, though, might not.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:08 pm

Roman Warm Period had temps approximately as our times.

https://agbjarn.blog.is/users/fa/agbjar ... -years.pdf
 
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casinterest
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:14 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Roman Warm Period had temps approximately as our times.

https://agbjarn.blog.is/users/fa/agbjar ... -years.pdf



And yet that graph is missing the last 20+ years.

https://www.climate.gov/media/12885
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:56 pm

And that graph misses both the Roman and Medieval Warm Periods. No doubt, temps are on the rise, we’ll see how that works out.
 
LabQuest
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:08 pm

johns624 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
The truth is most people aren't willing to make the true sacrifices to make a change. Stop buying stuff, stop flying places, stop driving your car, turn off your AC.
Stop going to silly internet forums. Walk everywhere. Don't heat or cool your house. Let your food rot due to no fridge. Eat less.


This is what it will take. Nobody is going to do it. I'm certainly not.

So, every few weeks we will see another doomsday prediction as we continue to fly for fun, buy crap we don't need and use crazy amounts of energy being completely comfortable and lazy.
 
johns624
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:21 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Imagine how people survived back when AC didn't exist. Oh right, it was rarely as hot as it is these days.
Wrong. Back in pre-A/C days, people didn't live by the millions in places like Las Vegas, Texas and Arizona. Eighty years ago, the vast majority of Americans lived east of the Mississippi and north of the Ohio. There was a reason for that.
 
ACDC8
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:25 pm

johns624 wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
Imagine how people survived back when AC didn't exist. Oh right, it was rarely as hot as it is these days.
Wrong. Back in pre-A/C days, people didn't live by the millions in places like Las Vegas, Texas and Arizona. Eighty years ago, the vast majority of Americans lived east of the Mississippi and north of the Ohio. There was a reason for that.

This is the thing though, take Vegas for example, walk down The Strip mid day in July and then walk in the desert just outside of town, world of difference. Concrete, asphalt, cement just radiate heat like a furnace.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:02 am

[*]
LabQuest wrote:
The truth is most people aren't willing to make the true sacrifices to make a change. Stop buying stuff, stop flying places, stop driving your car, turn off your AC.

So don't go to work then? Don't eat?
 
LabQuest
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:44 am

AirKevin wrote:
[*]
LabQuest wrote:
The truth is most people aren't willing to make the true sacrifices to make a change. Stop buying stuff, stop flying places, stop driving your car, turn off your AC.

So don't go to work then? Don't eat?


Of course you can go to work and eat. But maybe bike to work and not eat red meat. Hang your laundry to dry. Simple stuff.
 
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c933103
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:02 am

mxaxai wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Recently Japanese government explicitly tell its citizens do not try to save power by keeping the AC off even when necessary as it have led to ten of thousand per day being sent to hospital due to heat stroke, even when Japanese government have issued power supply shortage cautionary watch.

Imagine how people survived back when AC didn't exist. Oh right, it was rarely as hot as it is these days. I wonder why that might be?
It's a catch-22: We need more AC, more water, more infrastructure to combat the heat now, but if the energy to power all that is coming from fossile sources we're digging ourselves an even deeper grave.


Very conveniently we now have means to generate electricity without fossil fuels
 
af773atmsp
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:36 am

In July 2018 I was traveling through the Scandinavian countries, which were experiencing a record heat wave. Many places as well as public transit didn't have AC because heat like that was extremely rare. Unfortunately I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes the norm for them every summer, and they'll have to do a major overhaul to buildings and infrastructure to adapt to it. I also wouldn't be surprised if more and more people move to Scandinavian countries, especially in the northern parts like Bodø, Norway, where the heat is less severe or doesn't last as long as places south of them. When I visited Bodø there were several residential buildings going up in their small downtown, and it may be a sign of things to come.
 
art
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:26 am

mxaxai wrote:
Never before has Earth's climate changed this rapidly.

This is a difficult one to explain for people set in their ways (I like living this way so I look for ways to explain away global warming being due to human activity).
 
marcelh
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:59 am

luckyone wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Human activity may be speeding up the process, but the earth has been hotter without any human activity.

Yes, remember all the 40°+ summers in 19th century UK, which made it a great place to grow cotton and sugarcane? The regular forest fires of northern Germany, written about in ancient lore? The lush green mountain peaks in the Alps our parents would tell us about?

Never before has Earth's climate changed this rapidly. There is always some variation, of course, but this is unprecedented.

Actually no it isn't unprecedented, which doesn't discount human activity in speeding up the process. The point is that the earth has been hotter without any human involvement, and it's been colder without any human involvement. We have a rate-influencing effect, but it's naïve to think that we are solely responsible for climate change.

For all its noble intentions, European government's climate change policies aren't going to have any major effect, for many different reasons.


The rate of change may not be unprecedented in earths history, those rapid changes didn’t happen without some major cause and without major effects. The “fun” part is it will have (major) effects on the lives of almost 8 billion people living on this planet. And you can downplay the intentions of Europeans, doing nothing and downplay the problem -the default US attitude- is even worse.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:36 am

c933103 wrote:
Very conveniently we now have means to generate electricity without fossil fuels

If only we would use those means more instead of relying on ancient technology with known harmful effects.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:28 am

LabQuest wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
[*]
LabQuest wrote:
The truth is most people aren't willing to make the true sacrifices to make a change. Stop buying stuff, stop flying places, stop driving your car, turn off your AC.

So don't go to work then? Don't eat?

Of course you can go to work and eat. But maybe bike to work and not eat red meat. Hang your laundry to dry. Simple stuff.

Slight problem with this theory. I am an over-the-road truck driver. I'm almost never home, but when I am home, it is a 44-mile drive from my house to the terminal. There is not a snowball's chance in hell I am biking 44 miles, especially since I am carrying a lot of equipment when I go from my house to the terminal. Food, water, and laundry. How do you expect me to carry a week's worth of food, two cases of water, and two week's worth of clothes on a bike. Additionally, my job as a truck driver requires me to drive a tractor-trailer. If all of us truck drivers stopped driving, the entire country would come to a complete standstill and the economy would just crash.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:35 pm

[quote="Pi7472000"]We have seen Europe do so much more than the U.S. to try to mitigate climate change as they are more of a science based culture than the U.S.

/quote]

Huh? "So much more" is a a slight over statement. Well not really a slight one at that.

Facts from https://yearbook.enerdata.net/coal-lign ... -data.html

Coal Consumption (Million Tonnes)
Year
2007 2021
US 1,021 497
Europe 775 437 estimates from https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... statistics
India 542 1,024
China. 2,821 4,102

World CO2 Emissions by Region https://www.statista.com/statistics/205 ... by-region/

2005 2021 Million metric tonnes
N. America 6,846 5,602
Europe 4,984 3,794
Asia Pacific 11,175. 17,735

North America is not causing the rapid increase in CO2 emissions. Our reduction rivals Europe. Some folks argue that historical emissions should count. But I say that as N. America has begun to reforest itself, most of our historical emissions are locked up in trees.

Bottom line IMO - Asia is elephant in the room. By alot.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:55 pm

There are still so many things where people can save GHG emissions:

No. 1: fun trips by aircraft (yes, I am aware that this is an aviation enthusiasts webpage..). But I know so many people who fly to Mallorca several times a year just to party, cheat their partners etc. … on top of the annual long distance trip to Asia

No. 2: speed limit: there are so many company cars on Germany‘s highways and these people give a €&@$#it about the GHG emissions because their companies pay for the fuel…

No. 3 .. to be continued…
 
marcelh
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:54 pm

N14AZ wrote:
There are still so many things where people can save GHG emissions:

No. 1: fun trips by aircraft (yes, I am aware that this is an aviation enthusiasts webpage..). But I know so many people who fly to Mallorca several times a year just to party, cheat their partners etc. … on top of the annual long distance trip to Asia

No. 2: speed limit: there are so many company cars on Germany‘s highways and these people give a €&@$#it about the GHG emissions because their companies pay for the fuel…

No. 3 .. to be continued…


No. 3: consume less animal based food. Cows producing a lot of methane, also a GHG
 
art
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:56 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
We have seen Europe do so much more than the U.S. to try to mitigate climate change as they are more of a science based culture than the U.S.

/quote]

Huh? "So much more" is a a slight over statement. Well not really a slight one at that.

Facts from https://yearbook.enerdata.net/coal-lign ... -data.html

Coal Consumption (Million Tonnes)
Year
2007 2021
US 1,021 497
Europe 775 437 estimates from https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... statistics
India 542 1,024
China. 2,821 4,102

World CO2 Emissions by Region https://www.statista.com/statistics/205 ... by-region/

2005 2021 Million metric tonnes
N. America 6,846 5,602
Europe 4,984 3,794
Asia Pacific 11,175. 17,735

North America is not causing the rapid increase in CO2 emissions. Our reduction rivals Europe. Some folks argue that historical emissions should count. But I say that as N. America has begun to reforest itself, most of our historical emissions are locked up in trees.

Bottom line IMO - Asia is elephant in the room. By alot.


I sympathise with view of developing/recently developed countries. They contributed comparatively little to the build up of CO2 in the atmosphere until recently. I agree , though, that China in particular should start taking more measures to reduce CO2 emission levels. Bear in mind that emissions per head in Asia Pacific (China and India alone have ca 2.8 billion inhabitants) must be lower than in Europe and North America.

I don't think that Asia is the elephant in the room. Don't think it ever has been. That accolade is still held by N America, isn't it?
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:31 pm

According to Marjorie Taylor Green, global warming is actually "Good for us"

https://www.newsweek.com/marjorie-taylo ... th-1715688
 
bennett123
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:56 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
We have seen Europe do so much more than the U.S. to try to mitigate climate change as they are more of a science based culture than the U.S.

/quote]

Huh? "So much more" is a a slight over statement. Well not really a slight one at that.

Facts from https://yearbook.enerdata.net/coal-lign ... -data.html

Coal Consumption (Million Tonnes)
Year
2007 2021
US 1,021 497
Europe 775 437 estimates from https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... statistics
India 542 1,024
China. 2,821 4,102

World CO2 Emissions by Region https://www.statista.com/statistics/205 ... by-region/

2005 2021 Million metric tonnes
N. America 6,846 5,602
Europe 4,984 3,794
Asia Pacific 11,175. 17,735

North America is not causing the rapid increase in CO2 emissions. Our reduction rivals Europe. Some folks argue that historical emissions should count. But I say that as N. America has begun to reforest itself, most of our historical emissions are locked up in trees.

Bottom line IMO - Asia is elephant in the room. By alot.


How do those figures look when the factor in the number of people in each region?.
 
bennett123
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:59 pm

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
According to Marjorie Taylor Green, global warming is actually "Good for us"

https://www.newsweek.com/marjorie-taylo ... th-1715688


Think you have the wrong video.

She is rabbiting on about Gays/Trans etc.
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:29 pm

bennett123 wrote:
FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
According to Marjorie Taylor Green, global warming is actually "Good for us"

https://www.newsweek.com/marjorie-taylo ... th-1715688


Think you have the wrong video.

She is rabbiting on about Gays/Trans etc.



Scroll down a couple of inches or so and the climate video is there, as well as the text.

Cheers!
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:39 pm

[/quote] How do those figures look when the factor in the number of people in each region?.[/quote]

It's definitely not as unbalanced as the people believe.

"Asia is by far the largest emitter, accounting for 53% of global emissions. As it is home to 60% of the world’s population this means that per capita emissions in Asia are slightly lower than the world average, however." https://ourworldindata.org/annual-co2-emissions

Considerer that that Europe, Australia and North America are reducing their emissions (while Asia's are still going up) and that we act as the immigration safety valve for Asia (and the rest of the world). Without this migration, the West's CO2 emissions be declining faster.

Yep - I stand by Asia is a much bigger problem.
 
bennett123
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:47 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
How do those figures look when the factor in the number of people in each region?.[/quote]

It's definitely not as unbalanced as the people believe.

"Asia is by far the largest emitter, accounting for 53% of global emissions. As it is home to 60% of the world’s population this means that per capita emissions in Asia are slightly lower than the world average, however." https://ourworldindata.org/annual-co2-emissions

Considerer that that Europe, Australia and North America are reducing their emissions (while Asia's are still going up) and that we act as the immigration safety valve for Asia (and the rest of the world). Without this migration, the West's CO2 emissions be declining faster.

Yep - I stand by Asia is a much bigger problem.[/quote]


How much of those emissions are manufacturing for the European and North American markets?.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:00 pm

Enjoy your hot weather while you can. If you haven't realize yet, there is a war going on in Europe that has a very high potential of becoming a nuclear global war. Those who survive will remember the warm weather with tears in their eyes.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:41 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
Enjoy your hot weather while you can. If you haven't realize yet, there is a war going on in Europe that has a very high potential of becoming a nuclear global war. Those who survive will remember the warm weather with tears in their eyes.



Unfortunately, you are more right than any of us ever expected.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:52 pm

[/quote] How much of those emissions are manufacturing for the European and North American markets?.[/quote]

Some but not all. In fact the States are desperately trying to get those jobs back. Our industries (including Europe) are a lot cleaner because we actually have environmental regulations. Which make our goods more expensive.

Think for example how much cement and steel China has produced for their colossal cities some of which are completely empty.

More cars (and probably everything else) are sold in China now than any where else.
 
StarAC17
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:58 pm

N14AZ wrote:
There are still so many things where people can save GHG emissions:

No. 1: fun trips by aircraft (yes, I am aware that this is an aviation enthusiasts webpage..). But I know so many people who fly to Mallorca several times a year just to party, cheat their partners etc. … on top of the annual long distance trip to Asia

No. 2: speed limit: there are so many company cars on Germany‘s highways and these people give a €&@$#it about the GHG emissions because their companies pay for the fuel…

No. 3 .. to be continued…


Here's the problem with 1. Only middle class and working class people will have to make that sacrifice. The rich and elite won't, both the individual people and the countries. This is why getting India, China and other to play ball

This is what happened with Covid lockdowns/measures in the last two years. Only certain people had to to follow them, kids were and in some places are still masked. Yet we watch the Oscars, the Super bowl, the Met gala etc. and all of those people are acting like there isn't a pandemic.

The same applies with climate change. The elites can have their yachts and private jets, multiple homes, eat what they want etc. While the rest of us are restricted on what we can do.

This will create a great deal of civil tension that could actually become violent.
 
StarAC17
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:04 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
Enjoy your hot weather while you can. If you haven't realize yet, there is a war going on in Europe that has a very high potential of becoming a nuclear global war. Those who survive will remember the warm weather with tears in their eyes.


If all of the events from 1946 to 1991 didn't cause a nuclear war then this Ukraine conflict won't cause one.
The only potential nuclear attack would be from some terror organization that got their hands on nuclear arms. None of the nations who have nukes are going to launch weapons over this conflict.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:15 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
It's definitely not as unbalanced as the people believe.

"Asia is by far the largest emitter, accounting for 53% of global emissions. As it is home to 60% of the world’s population this means that per capita emissions in Asia are slightly lower than the world average, however." https://ourworldindata.org/annual-co2-emissions

Considerer that that Europe, Australia and North America are reducing their emissions (while Asia's are still going up) and that we act as the immigration safety valve for Asia (and the rest of the world). Without this migration, the West's CO2 emissions be declining faster.

Yep - I stand by Asia is a much bigger problem.

North America: 18% of CO2 with 5% of the population
Oceania: 1.3% of CO2 with 0.5% of the population
Europe (incl. Russia+Turkey): 17% of CO2 with 10% of the population
Asia: 53% of CO2 with 60% of the population
South America: 3% of CO2 with 8.4% of the population
Africa: 4% of CO2 with 17% of the population

While Asia is "just average", this average is includes wealthy countries in the EU & NA regions, and poor countries in Africa & LATAM. The Asia group itself is already highly diverse and contains wealthy industrialized states like Japan, South Korea and Saudi Arabia.
So yes, EU + NA with their share of over 1/3 of the total emissions still have a lot of potential for reductions. For Asia and Africa, the most critical part is to prevent further growth as they strive for increased wealth.
Unsurprisingly, China is already the market leader producing 70% of all PV. They installed more offshore PV in 2021 than the entire rest of the world since 2016. They're adding 150 GW of renewable capacity per year - more than 10% of the total power installed in the US. If we did the same thing, we could have a CO2-neutral grid by 2030.

We mustn't use the accusation that "they should do something first" as an excuse to sit back and do nothing.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 1016
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:42 am

mxaxai wrote:
North America: 18% of CO2 with 5% of the population
Oceania: 1.3% of CO2 with 0.5% of the population
Europe (incl. Russia+Turkey): 17% of CO2 with 10% of the population
Asia: 53% of CO2 with 60% of the population
South America: 3% of CO2 with 8.4% of the population
Africa: 4% of CO2 with 17% of the population

Unsurprisingly, China is already the market leader producing 70% of all PV. They installed more offshore PV in 2021 than the entire rest of the world since 2016. They're adding 150 GW of renewable capacity per year - more than 10% of the total power installed in the US. If we did the same thing, we could have a CO2-neutral grid by 2030.

We mustn't use the accusation that "they should do something first" as an excuse to sit back and do nothing.


Not just “sit back and do nothing”, potentially “actively produce more CO2”. Now that the US Supreme Court has overturned the power of the US EPA to regulate emissions it is certain laws will be overturned that were enforcing emissions standards on private corporations. Just 100 corporations are responsible for 70% of the world’s emissions.

I too have seen the difference between China and the US on climate. Whilst China may have an emissions problem in some other areas in transport they are actively trying to reduce emissions, in one city I was almost bowled over by the exclusively electric scooters that dominate the streets, and was able to travel efficiently from place to place with high speed rail. In the US the only real option to travel is via petrol guzzling SUV on jammed interstate highways.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 8954
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:29 am

LabQuest wrote:
Hang your laundry to dry. Simple stuff.

This is the biggest hypocrisy of this whole climate change thing:

Stop driving your car, buy an EV, do your part - but cities and communities here continue to maintain bylaws that forbid one from hanging their laundry outside because is "unsightly" :sarcastic:
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 18388
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:25 am

ACDC8 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Hang your laundry to dry. Simple stuff.

This is the biggest hypocrisy of this whole climate change thing:

Stop driving your car, buy an EV, do your part - but cities and communities here continue to maintain bylaws that forbid one from hanging their laundry outside because is "unsightly" :sarcastic:


Smog is more unsightly (not to mention deadly) than hanging laundry. Those bylaws are total nonsense.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 8954
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Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:32 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Smog is more unsightly (not to mention deadly) than hanging laundry. Those bylaws are total nonsense.

I know right? Plus your clothes will last a lot longer by not constantly throwing them in a dryer, less pollution in manufacturing clothes, transporting clothes, etc., but of course, the all mighty dollar and consumerism must prevail over common sense at all costs :biggrin:
 
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Tugger
Posts: 12222
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:18 am

We'll be fine. It may not be easy or what it has been but humans can manage and survive and even thrive. We need to work hard to reduce what we add, but we don't know enough (yet) to control. And we to not believe that we can. But we can do OK. And we will.

At least that's my opinion.
Tugg
 
marcelh
Posts: 2178
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:51 am

bennett123 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
How do those figures look when the factor in the number of people in each region?.


It's definitely not as unbalanced as the people believe.

"Asia is by far the largest emitter, accounting for 53% of global emissions. As it is home to 60% of the world’s population this means that per capita emissions in Asia are slightly lower than the world average, however." https://ourworldindata.org/annual-co2-emissions

Considerer that that Europe, Australia and North America are reducing their emissions (while Asia's are still going up) and that we act as the immigration safety valve for Asia (and the rest of the world). Without this migration, the West's CO2 emissions be declining faster.

Yep - I stand by Asia is a much bigger problem.[/quote]


How much of those emissions are manufacturing for the European and North American markets?.[/quote]

Today’s climate change is an effect of the emissions from the past. Guess where those emissions primarily came from?
 
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N14AZ
Posts: 4504
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

Re: Human Caused Climate Crisis hits Europe

Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:57 am

marcelh wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
There are still so many things where people can save GHG emissions:

No. 1: fun trips by aircraft (yes, I am aware that this is an aviation enthusiasts webpage..). But I know so many people who fly to Mallorca several times a year just to party, cheat their partners etc. … on top of the annual long distance trip to Asia

No. 2: speed limit: there are so many company cars on Germany‘s highways and these people give a €&@$#it about the GHG emissions because their companies pay for the fuel…

No. 3 .. to be continued…


No. 3: consume less animal based food. Cows producing a lot of methane, also a GHG

Oh yes, how I wish one could catch these CH4 emissions. I read somewhere that there are specific plans to do so but it’s hard to imagine how something like this could work…

Regarding less food consumption: it must have been 20 years ago when I heard a report on the radio, in which they displayed a scene in a restaurant: someone orders a steak and the waitress gets a message on her device and replies „oh, sorry, you already had one steak earlier this month so I am not allowed to accept your order.“ Guess we are not too far away from such a scenario.

Best regards
N14AZ

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