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hh65man
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Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:35 am

A Walgreens employee refused to sell condoms to a couple on religious grounds.
Not sure where the passage rests in the bible, thou shall not sell condoms, but I would love to see it if it does. This case with Walgreens is following in the close footsteps from a couple of days ago where a pharmacist refused to fill a prescription and sell birth control pills to a women. Walgreens store employee policy is a bit off here in my opinion. It’s just opens the door and allows for more religious bigotry. If I were his manager I’d be providing some counseling. Unbelievable

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/busine ... -rcna39165
 
ltbewr
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:58 am

Probably condoms are kept, like other high value and high theft items, behind the checkout counter or in locked cabinets so need a clerk to get them for you. That is embarrassing enough, but to be confronted by a clerk who won't help you get them or do the transaction due to faith reasons is dead wrong. The company policy is likely a way to get and keep employees as well placate customers in more religious markets in particular as to any product like prescription birth control pills, prescription and non-prescription abortion pills. The store policy is to make it so if a clerk or pharmacists refused to do such transactions, then the manager or another clerk is to process it. Could a clerk refuse to sell tobacco products or candy or heavily sugared beverages to a fat person ? I doubt it. Although my prescription plan is with a Walgreens, I go to Walmart or my local grocery store for most non-drug items as they are often far cheaper than Walgreens.
 
johns624
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 12:38 pm

If they stock the product, the employee should be required to sell it.
 
johns624
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 12:39 pm

If they stock the product, the employee should be required to sell it.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 12:43 pm

This is like the Cashier at a strip club being against lap dances. When you go to work for an employer, you are their representative in all they do and sell. If you have an objection to a legally allowed offering of the company , you shouldn't apply or should just resign
 
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Aesma
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:20 pm

Such situations destroy the argument of the "pro-lifers" that there are options to not get pregnant. When push comes to shove, they show their true colors : such options are to be banned, too.
 
dalmit
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:28 pm

This person isn't thinking clearly. I can imagine a religion that prohibits the use of birth control but I can't imagine a religion that prevents you from facilitating birth control for others.

Even if that religion exists, isn't the clerk violating their religious beliefs by even working at a store that sells birth control?

On a side note, kudos to the dude for getting his gf to run to get condoms.
 
luckyone
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:15 pm

While I agree such a policy riddles certain "pro-lifer" arguments with holes, I also think that there's room for both here. Walgreens is certainly within its rights to say, upon hiring, that if you work in that store you will be expected to sell certain items. As a private business they have that right. But they've chosen not to, and to allow a policy whereby an employee can alert a manager. Personally, I see no problem with that. The customer is provided with the product they desire, and want to pay for. The company gets the money, and provides (even if silly) a reasonable accommodation to the employee. What we don't know is how the employee conveyed that to the customer, or whether the customer is being unreasonable. What I do not support is a Kim Davis-style blanket no to certain services based on religious accommodation, particularly in a government/public service.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:15 pm

Back in the deep dark mists of time I worked in a gas station, one of the guys I worked with was in seminary school, he refused to sell conforms and gentlemen’s magazines. My boss eventually fired him because of this.

Supermarkets in Norway have vending machines for items like condoms. If you go through a self checkout, look for the vending machine menus, the checkout prints a ticket, you pay then young onto the vending machine, it scans your ticket and dispenses the product. No additional humans need to be involved.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:28 pm

dalmit wrote:
This person isn't thinking clearly. I can imagine a religion that prohibits the use of birth control but I can't imagine a religion that prevents you from facilitating birth control for others.

Why the surprise? There are always religious people trying to force their believes onto others.
 
LabQuest
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:05 pm

Just fire the employee.
 
SEAorPWM
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:27 pm

This is one of those situations where speaking to the manager would be warranted. What a nut...

Wisconsin is starting to take Maine's or NH's place as the "Far North of the Deep South".
 
bhill
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:40 pm

Oh for heavens sake...7-11 has them...rhat there in the snack aisle. Amazon sells 'em as well!!!
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:51 pm

Aesma wrote:
Such situations destroy the argument of the "pro-lifers" that there are options to not get pregnant. When push comes to shove, they show their true colors : such options are to be banned, too.


In this case, do you know that the clerk involved is a - using your phrase - a "pro-lifer"?

Besides, religion is filled with contradictions.

As for the customer: where there is a Walgreens, there will be a nearby CVS, RideAid, Target, or supermarket.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:12 pm

Reasonable accommodation needs to be granted by employers for religious influences on someone's person - dress, hair, Sunday off, conduct, etc. This does not extend to situations that would cause undue hardship or expense for the employer. If, for example, this individual were the only clerk on staff at the Walgreens, they would not be required to hire someone else just to cover the potential sale of condoms. I think a reasonable judge would also find that a very religious employee should have a reasonable expectation at time of hire that a drugstore might contain products offensive to them.
 
hh65man
Topic Author
Posts: 326
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:43 am

As his manager I’d be asking him to bring in his bible next time he’s rostered on. Ask him in a polite manner to open it and find the passage where it states he shall not sell condoms. After a second or two I’d ask him to please sign this letter stating he’s been properly counselled on store policy. Walgreens shouldn’t be handing out blanket pardons to those who just choose to be ignorant. If they stock and sell the product their employees should be able to scan the item and ring it up.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:08 am

hh65man wrote:
As his manager I’d be asking him to bring in his bible next time he’s rostered on. Ask him in a polite manner to open it and find the passage where it states he shall not sell condoms. After a second or two I’d ask him to please sign this letter stating he’s been properly counselled on store policy. Walgreens shouldn’t be handing out blanket pardons to those who just choose to be ignorant. If they stock and sell the product their employees should be able to scan the item and ring it up.


I hear you totally but a supervisor asking the employee to bring a bible and quote from it would potentially put the employer and manager on shaky legal ground. Best to refer them to area management or HR to 'look into' their claim of exemption from selling the item.
 
CaptHadley
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:45 am

bhill wrote:
Oh for heavens sake...7-11 has them...rhat there in the snack aisle. Amazon sells 'em as well!!!


Wow, this whole thing is just screaming over your head isn't it. It isn't about the availability of them, but the fact that the store actually sells them and the jeebus lover decides that 6 pound, 7 ounce baby jeebus would frown at this transaction.
 
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vhqpa
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:45 am

WesternDC6B wrote:
As for the customer: where there is a Walgreens, there will be a nearby CVS, RideAid, Target, or supermarket.


But that’s besides the point. If I’m at a Walgreens and I want to buy condoms, I expect to be able to buy them without the Team Member at the checkout giving me an unwanted religious lecture on how I should live my life, regardless of whichever retailers are in the area.

I work at major Australian retailer and if I tried to pull that stunt I’d quite rightly be told to reconsider the suitability of the position.
 
Airstud
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:39 am

johns624 wrote:
If they stock the product, the employee should be required to sell it.


I think this is where I land as well. Dude should work somewhere else if his current job's basic duties are against his religion.
 
ACDC8
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:44 am

Dear employee,

We thank you for your service with our company. However, I regret to inform you that your services within our company will no longer be required.

Sincerely, Walgreens
 
ReverseFlow
Posts: 608
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:39 am

In the UK if you buy alcohol in a supermarket and the person working at the checkout is under drinking age, they have to get a supervisor to authorise the purchase.

Couldn't they just do it like this here? Sorta like 'the ground will open and I will fall into hell if I checkout condoms so I need a supervisor to check this item out'?
 
ACDC8
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:50 am

ReverseFlow wrote:
In the UK if you buy alcohol in a supermarket and the person working at the checkout is under drinking age, they have to get a supervisor to authorise the purchase.

Couldn't they just do it like this here? Sorta like 'the ground will open and I will fall into hell if I checkout condoms so I need a supervisor to check this item out'?

Alcohol is a legal requirement though, while the rubber hoopla is based on personal opinions.

What if there is no supervisor on duty? What if someone is working by themselves at a 7/11?

Opens up to many doors in a world that's already full of rabbit holes. One day its religious reasons for rubbers and the next day its an employee refusing to sell you steak because of ethics.
 
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seb146
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:42 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
ReverseFlow wrote:
In the UK if you buy alcohol in a supermarket and the person working at the checkout is under drinking age, they have to get a supervisor to authorise the purchase.

Couldn't they just do it like this here? Sorta like 'the ground will open and I will fall into hell if I checkout condoms so I need a supervisor to check this item out'?

Alcohol is a legal requirement though, while the rubber hoopla is based on personal opinions.

What if there is no supervisor on duty? What if someone is working by themselves at a 7/11?

Opens up to many doors in a world that's already full of rabbit holes. One day its religious reasons for rubbers and the next day its an employee refusing to sell you steak because of ethics.


To that point: aren't there Muslims and Adventists who work in supermarkets where pork products are sold? Then, we get into the "ethics" of sects like Christian Scientists who believe only prayer will heal the sick. I wonder how many work in pharmacies or places like Walgreens and Rite-Aid, etc.?
 
bhill
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:17 pm

CaptHadley wrote:
bhill wrote:
Oh for heavens sake...7-11 has them...rhat there in the snack aisle. Amazon sells 'em as well!!!


Wow, this whole thing is just screaming over your head isn't it. It isn't about the availability of them, but the fact that the store actually sells them and the jeebus lover decides that 6 pound, 7 ounce baby jeebus would frown at this transaction.





It's called sarcasm.... The store sells a legal product. If you have a problem selling the product the store sells, find another job. I would have fired their ass on the spot! If not condoms, what next? Booze? Tobacco? Tampons, because god forbid, a hymen is broken before marriage! I am sick and tired of ANY church interfering with the sale of legal products. If the BUSINESS does not want to sell products, do not offer them. Perhaps they should weed these kooks out ahead of time by asking them if there is any thing for sale in the store they object to before being hired!!
 
ACDC8
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:22 pm

seb146 wrote:
To that point: aren't there Muslims and Adventists who work in supermarkets where pork products are sold?

Oh, we've already seen that to the point that the pork is taboo employees want the pork products removed off the menu or store shelves and even lawsuits.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:21 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
To that point: aren't there Muslims and Adventists who work in supermarkets where pork products are sold?

Oh, we've already seen that to the point that the pork is taboo employees want the pork products removed off the menu or store shelves and even lawsuits.


In Malaysia, mutilcutlural but predominantly Muslim, supermarkets (at least in expat areas) have separate sections for pork products.

But in the Walgreens example, the person should have either referred on or declined to work in the place. We have had situaitions in Australia where pharmacists have refused to dispense contraceptives on religious grounds, but laws have been put in place that they must refer on.
 
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c933103
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:12 am

Aesma wrote:
Such situations destroy the argument of the "pro-lifers" that there are options to not get pregnant. When push comes to shove, they show their true colors : such options are to be banned, too.

Aren't those people consistent in that?
They believe sex is a divine mean of reproduction
Thus shouldn't be used for any purpose other than reproduction
Any measure that try to prevent reproduction other than not having the action of sex itself are this being viewed as things that should be rejected.
This is horrible but that is what religion is isn't it.
And let people witth power and money enjoy it as much as they can and putting the burden on those on receiving end.
 
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seb146
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:35 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
To that point: aren't there Muslims and Adventists who work in supermarkets where pork products are sold?

Oh, we've already seen that to the point that the pork is taboo employees want the pork products removed off the menu or store shelves and even lawsuits.


Have we? There is a "pork law" in California about treatment of farm animals on corporate farms.
 
apodino
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:05 pm

c933103 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Such situations destroy the argument of the "pro-lifers" that there are options to not get pregnant. When push comes to shove, they show their true colors : such options are to be banned, too.

Aren't those people consistent in that?
They believe sex is a divine mean of reproduction
Thus shouldn't be used for any purpose other than reproduction
Any measure that try to prevent reproduction other than not having the action of sex itself are this being viewed as things that should be rejected.
This is horrible but that is what religion is isn't it.
And let people witth power and money enjoy it as much as they can and putting the burden on those on receiving end.


I will correct you on one point, at least as far as the catholic church goes. The Catholic Church actually teaches that if the only reason you are having sex is for reproduction, that too is a mortal sin because you are using it as a means to an end rather than what God intended. What the actual teaching says is that Sex is a renewal of wedding vows, where the promises made at the altar come alive in the flesh. Sex is intended as a way to unite to your spouse and give yourself completely to your spouse. In other words, what you are doing is entirely in the service of your spouse and not for your own pleasure. Where contraception comes into play is that with Contraception, you are not giving yourself completely to your spouse because you are withholding your fertility from your spouse, and thus are not giving yourself completely to them. This is why the Church is big on tracking cycles and also other signs such as cervical mucus and basal body temperature so that you know when the woman is not fertile and thus you choose to abstain during those times if you do not want to get pregnant. Pope John Paul II actually wrote during his papacy on how important he felt it was for Husband and Wife to try for simultaneous orgasm every time they make love.

That being said, in this particular case Walgreens is not a religious employer. Because the Walgreens job requires you to ring up sales of stuff, if you are not willing to ring up stuff that you find objectionable, you cannot do the cashier job. Either they have to find a job that deals with this, or this person is free to work elsewhere. About the only possible exception to this that I could think of is for the Pharmacist. The Pharmacist has an obligation to make sure that they are not prescribing anything they think would harm their patient. Which means that if they feel that Contraception would harm their patient, they have a moral obligation not to issue the prescription. It's no different than going to one doctor and not agreeing with what they say so you go to another one for a second opinion. But that is the only case I can think of. That is not what is happening here. I don't think this employee has a case here. She can go work elsewhere.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:12 am

apodino wrote:
Pope John Paul II actually wrote during his papacy on how important he felt it was for Husband and Wife to try for simultaneous orgasm every time they make love.


Sorry, why should we take the advice of an elderly virgin on making love, who was also the leader of the number one organisation in the world in perpetrating some of the most hideous sexual abuse against children?

Quotes like that and the Walgreens/condoms controversy remind us that religion and sex should be kept totally separate.
 
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seb146
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:26 am

For about three months when I was 24, I worked at a gas station in eastern Oregon. The second-to-last job I had before I left for good. We sold "adult" magazines and condoms and beer and were the closest off-reservation store open late that sold beer. I learned a lot. Grandmothers smoke. Junior high teachers look at porn. Teens have sex. None of these things have anything to do with me in any way at all. Sure, I can give a customer the number to AA or a cancer center or an STI clinic, but that would make a whole thing and open up a whole conversation that has nothing at all to do with me in any way so I took the money and kept my mouth shut.

The worst and best thing that ever happened was the woman who would come in every night and buy a 40 of Hamm's. One night, she bought two 40s of Hamm's and set them on the counter very sharply. I said "rough night?" and her look at me alone almost sent me to the ER. The next night, she came in, bought her one 40 of Hamm's and said "I'm sorry about last night..." I replied "don't worry about it."

Those few months were horrible and I hate them and they taught me so much and I do not want to talk about them.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Walgreens Religous Exemption for Condoms

Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:40 am

seb146 wrote:
Junior high teachers look at porn.


Teachers pend all their working day around children, so in their spare time I find they strongly desire to engage in “adult” activities…..

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