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stratosphere
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Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:48 pm

Personally I have no sorrow for this woman she should have known the laws. Russia is not the USA that this woman seems to despise yet asks for help from it.. I think the Russians will let her simmer for a while to get the most mileage out of it and then trade her for Viktor Bout. Of course our government had to ask for US Marine Paul Whelan as well cuz you know can't make it look like you are just lobbying for a athlete. Too bad that another person held in Russia for virtually the same offense as Griner . Marc Vogel got 14 years hard labor and he isn't part of the deal. Biden stated that Griner was "unlawfully detained" well doesn't sound like it to me. One thing Griner will like is Russia won't be playing Americas national anthem in her cell that would be torture .

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-s ... smsnnews11
 
luckyone
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:14 pm

While she's absolutely being made a political pawn, I also have a hard time finding any sympathy for her. You don't go to a place like Russia and not keep your wits about you, and this wasn't her first visit to Russia.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:28 pm

They will probably do a deal in the new year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62427635

Reports in US media suggest imprisoned Russian arms trafficker Viktor Bout - known as the Merchant of Death - could be transferred by Washington to the Russian authorities as part of the deal.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:31 pm

I'm in the same boat as many - yes, she's being used as political pawn. But no, should we care that much about her to the point of exchanging Viktor Bout with her? Actually no IMHO.

And TBH she should know what she's getting into when she heads into Russia. Don't want to get arrest randomly and charge randomly? Don't go to countries like Russia (or China, or North Korea, etc.), period.
 
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seb146
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:45 pm

She took a second job to support her family. Isn't that what we are supposed to do? Don't make enough money? Get another job! She did. As far as the cannisters, how many times have you packed a bag for a long weekend upstate, got to your hotel and found something in one of the side pockets you forgot you put there from your last vacation? Plenty of times.

We SHOULD be outraged an American has been arrested and charged under sketchy circumstances. But some of us are not. In fact, some of us are saying she should stay. For providing for her family.
 
luckyone
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:51 pm

seb146 wrote:
She took a second job to support her family. Isn't that what we are supposed to do? Don't make enough money? Get another job! She did. As far as the cannisters, how many times have you packed a bag for a long weekend upstate, got to your hotel and found something in one of the side pockets you forgot you put there from your last vacation? Plenty of times.

We SHOULD be outraged an American has been arrested and charged under sketchy circumstances. But some of us are not. In fact, some of us are saying she should stay. For providing for her family.

She took a job in Russia, where she's been many times. I'm sorry, but she wasn't just packing for a long weekend and knew the rules when she went there. It's the reality when you travel overseas. You are a guest and at their mercy. If you don't think you can follow the rules, then one should not be going -- much for the same reason as you won't find me in Saudi Arabia or Iran.
 
johns624
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:03 pm

seb146 wrote:
She took a second job to support her family. Isn't that what we are supposed to do? Don't make enough money? Get another job! She did. As far as the cannisters, how many times have you packed a bag for a long weekend upstate, got to your hotel and found something in one of the side pockets you forgot you put there from your last vacation? Plenty of times.

We SHOULD be outraged an American has been arrested and charged under sketchy circumstances. But some of us are not. In fact, some of us are saying she should stay. For providing for her family.

1. Her WNBA salary is $200,000. She also has endorsement deals with McDonald's, Beats and Nike. Forbes lists her net worth as $10 Million. Hardly poorhouse wages.
2. Going upstate and going to a repressive foreign country are two different things.
3. She's never denied the drugs were hers. Why is it sketchy? Their country, their laws.
4. She's not worth trading for an arms dealer who has much blood on his hands.

https://dailyseinfeld.com/brittney-grin ... 20magazine.
 
SL1200MK2
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:31 pm

seb146 wrote:
She took a second job to support her family. Isn't that what we are supposed to do? Don't make enough money? Get another job! She did. As far as the cannisters, how many times have you packed a bag for a long weekend upstate, got to your hotel and found something in one of the side pockets you forgot you put there from your last vacation? Plenty of times.

We SHOULD be outraged an American has been arrested and charged under sketchy circumstances. But some of us are not. In fact, some of us are saying she should stay. For providing for her family.



I enjoy cannabis from time to time and when I travel, even domestically, I check everything just in case. Same from when I used to return from Holland and that was coming back to the USA. I’d check everything twice.

Now, if I were to travel to Russia during times of massive political tension where I think it’s obvious it’s not a country to mess with, I think I’d be very very very sure I was clean.

While I’m not happy about this and don’t think they’re laws are particularly reasonable, I certainly have a really hard time being sympathetic to her plight.
 
stratosphere
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:38 pm

seb146 wrote:
She took a second job to support her family. Isn't that what we are supposed to do? Don't make enough money? Get another job! She did. As far as the cannisters, how many times have you packed a bag for a long weekend upstate, got to your hotel and found something in one of the side pockets you forgot you put there from your last vacation? Plenty of times.

We SHOULD be outraged an American has been arrested and charged under sketchy circumstances. But some of us are not. In fact, some of us are saying she should stay. For providing for her family.


Americans have suffered worse than her around the world. Like I said this is Russia and considering the position we the USA have taken in their Ukraine war anyone stupid enough to stay or work in Russia is asking for trouble. But not many have sympathy for her since she seems to hate this country of ours let her experience what it's like in a Russian jail . Even that said I bet they are treating her better than any other American under the same circumstances due to her celebrity.
 
stratosphere
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:42 pm

luckyone wrote:
While she's absolutely being made a political pawn, I also have a hard time finding any sympathy for her. You don't go to a place like Russia and not keep your wits about you, and this wasn't her first visit to Russia.


Wouldn't be the first time the Democrats have swapped a high value prisoner or in Obama's case prisoners for what I would call traitors. Obama let out just about all of GITMO for Bergdahl who was in fact a traitor. Griner isn't a traitor per se but certainly has no fondness for our country .
 
ACDC8
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:57 pm

seb146 wrote:
As far as the cannisters, how many times have you packed a bag for a long weekend upstate, got to your hotel and found something in one of the side pockets you forgot you put there from your last vacation? Plenty of times.

Never. My bags are thoroughly checked and before each and every check, especially if visiting certain countries and double especially if I were a partaker of a material that is illegal in many countries.

The individual brought a substance into a country that is illegal there and now has to deal with the consequences.

If one wants to argue that the punishment doesn't fit the crime for what ever reason, that may be, and maybe there is some political push for the punishment, but at the end of the day, she put herself into the position in the first place.
Last edited by ACDC8 on Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
889091
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:00 pm

Their house, their rules. Don't like it? Don't go. Still want to go? Better make damned sure you're not bringing in what they deem to be contraband.

We've got an on going conflict in Eastern Europe, potential powder keg going off in the Far East and the MSM picked up on this? Seriously? ...yawn...
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:39 pm

Great. Now the prisoner swap can take place in the dead of night in a third country. Let's bring her home people. Eyes on the prize.
 
emperortk
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:11 pm

I don't have much sympathy for Griner, but I'd be willing to swap a certain ex-President who has quite the affinity for Russia in order to bring her home.
 
CaptHadley
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:16 pm

stratosphere wrote:
luckyone wrote:
While she's absolutely being made a political pawn, I also have a hard time finding any sympathy for her. You don't go to a place like Russia and not keep your wits about you, and this wasn't her first visit to Russia.


Wouldn't be the first time the Democrats have swapped a high value prisoner or in Obama's case prisoners for what I would call traitors. Obama let out just about all of GITMO for Bergdahl who was in fact a traitor. Griner isn't a traitor per se but certainly has no fondness for our country .



There it is, like clockwork! You never disappoint stratosphere! Hey, did you forget about this little gem from tfg? Scroll down to letter "C"

https://2017-2021.state.gov/wp-content/ ... 292020.pdf
 
jetwet1
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:45 pm

stratosphere wrote:
luckyone wrote:
While she's absolutely being made a political pawn, I also have a hard time finding any sympathy for her. You don't go to a place like Russia and not keep your wits about you, and this wasn't her first visit to Russia.


Wouldn't be the first time the Democrats have swapped a high value prisoner or in Obama's case prisoners for what I would call traitors. Obama let out just about all of GITMO for Bergdahl who was in fact a traitor. Griner isn't a traitor per se but certainly has no fondness for our country .


Before we get all high and mighty, don't forget Reagan released $8B in frozen funds to Iran to get the hostages back.

As for Griner, zero sympathy, we expect people who come to the US to obey our laws, we have to do the same when we are in theirs.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:25 pm

I think it’s outrageous that she’s in prison for these charges just as I think it’s an outrage that countless others are languishing in American prisons for equally minor marijuana charges. It would be ridiculous to me however that we’d bend over backwards spring her from prison in Russia without taking a hatchet to our own draconian marijuana laws to liberate those needlessly imprisoned on our own soil.
 
stratosphere
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:37 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
luckyone wrote:
While she's absolutely being made a political pawn, I also have a hard time finding any sympathy for her. You don't go to a place like Russia and not keep your wits about you, and this wasn't her first visit to Russia.


Wouldn't be the first time the Democrats have swapped a high value prisoner or in Obama's case prisoners for what I would call traitors. Obama let out just about all of GITMO for Bergdahl who was in fact a traitor. Griner isn't a traitor per se but certainly has no fondness for our country .


Before we get all high and mighty, don't forget Reagan released $8B in frozen funds to Iran to get the hostages back.

As for Griner, zero sympathy, we expect people who come to the US to obey our laws, we have to do the same when we are in theirs.


I am not against prisoner swaps I am against lopsided ones like Obama did and Biden is about to do
 
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NIKV69
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:23 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
They will probably do a deal in the new year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62427635

Reports in US media suggest imprisoned Russian arms trafficker Viktor Bout - known as the Merchant of Death - could be transferred by Washington to the Russian authorities as part of the deal.


I say she is back in 6 months. I won't blame her for playing in Russia to make money but she shouldn't have stayed when things got dicey and she shouldn't have had drugs on her. I don't get why the WH press secretary keeps reciting she is wrongfully detained (well I do actually) when she pled guilty, but a deal will be made.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:56 pm

seb146 wrote:
She took a second job to support her family. Isn't that what we are supposed to do? Don't make enough money? Get another job! She did. As far as the cannisters, how many times have you packed a bag for a long weekend upstate, got to your hotel and found something in one of the side pockets you forgot you put there from your last vacation? Plenty of times.

We SHOULD be outraged an American has been arrested and charged under sketchy circumstances. But some of us are not. In fact, some of us are saying she should stay. For providing for her family.


Um sorry, no. Packing for overseas travel - especially a draconian country - is not the same as an upstate weekend. This is not even an apples to oranges comparison. This is a different supermarket altogether.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:58 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
I think it’s outrageous that she’s in prison for these charges just as I think it’s an outrage that countless others are languishing in American prisons for equally minor marijuana charges. It would be ridiculous to me however that we’d bend over backwards spring her from prison in Russia without taking a hatchet to our own draconian marijuana laws to liberate those needlessly imprisoned on our own soil.


This is a fair point also. No sense crying about conditions abroad when many laws are completely unreasonable (and based on outdated notions, not data).
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:09 am

The Biden administration lied about her being wrongfully held. Marijuana is still illegal by US federal law. I would have to believe the US CBP enforces those laws with zeal at major US points of entry. Will somebody please save these people from themselves.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:25 am

LCDFlight wrote:
The Biden administration lied about her being wrongfully held. Marijuana is still illegal by US federal law. I would have to believe the US CBP enforces those laws with zeal at major US points of entry. Will somebody please save these people from themselves.


The contradictions between state and federal policies in this area can really make one's teeth gnash, that's for sure.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:20 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Leaders move for ego, foreign ministries move for long term stability and future security.


:checkmark: And there's a lot of people doing a lot of great work - who will never be acknowledged, just keeping us here...on this planet, right now. Keeping back-channels open. Keeping communication going. Keeping tempers tamped down. Keeping democracy going. My new phrase is, "eyes on the prize."

IMO give Putin a win on this and let's move on.
 
ReverseFlow
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:27 am

Pellegrine wrote:
Wacker1000 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
We SHOULD be outraged an American has been arrested and charged under sketchy circumstances. But some of us are not. In fact, some of us are saying she should stay. For providing for her family.


No. We shouldn't. Their country, their rules. How would you react if Russian came here and told us how to deal with criminals? Oh wait - you're a liberal and hate America so you'd be okay with it.

She's just lucky she didn't do it in a country where drug charges carry capital punishment.


She is an American. Paul Whelan is an American. This is geopolitics, not national politics. World War 4 has started for those who do not understand. You bring them home. Eyes on the prize.
Have we skipped World War 3?
You've got your eyes so much on the prize that you don't see the bigger picture.
 
GDB
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:50 am

jetwet1 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
luckyone wrote:
While she's absolutely being made a political pawn, I also have a hard time finding any sympathy for her. You don't go to a place like Russia and not keep your wits about you, and this wasn't her first visit to Russia.


Wouldn't be the first time the Democrats have swapped a high value prisoner or in Obama's case prisoners for what I would call traitors. Obama let out just about all of GITMO for Bergdahl who was in fact a traitor. Griner isn't a traitor per se but certainly has no fondness for our country .


Before we get all high and mighty, don't forget Reagan released $8B in frozen funds to Iran to get the hostages back.

As for Griner, zero sympathy, we expect people who come to the US to obey our laws, we have to do the same when we are in theirs.


To ensure he won, the other great GOP criminal President had his back channel crew sabotage talks with North Vietnam in 1968. Before the 1968 election which, unlike ‘72 it was close.
Would they have gone anywhere without this act of, again like Trump, outright treason?
We will never know, though the images and real questions after the Tet Offensive was disastrous to the Johnson administration, it was a mass casualty event for North Vietnam and their proxies hence they were talking at all.
We DO know that thousands more US troops were to die and be maimed as well as countless civilians though there wasn’t any concern there of course.

This woman is clearly being used as a pawn, I agree she made a terrible mistake and Russia, y’know Trump’s buddy Putin and all that, is higher risk. Not seen the Trump apologists on the now very long Ukraine thread. In fact the Trump defenders are conspicuous by their absence.
But even before that, a Westerner, going to Russia is risky, by virtue of it being a massively corrupt autocracy, like y’know, Trump’s vision for the US.
Speaking of recent events, with the Taliban promise to not allow Al Queda to regenerate in Afghanistan, signed by Trump and here’s 6000 prisoners back as well, has been exposed as a sham with the head of said organization being killed recently. Sunning himself in a compound run by senior Taliban commanders.

I agree she should not be swapped for Bout.
But if she is, small beer compared to the above and Reagan’s agreement, a precursor to the illegal arms his administration sold to Iran, to also illegally fund their Contra hero’s (who were very drug cartel adjacent, there’s your blowback for criminal foreign policies), to get a few US hostages out of Lebanon, all the while accusing European nations for being ‘soft on terrorism’, well none of them, at least the UK and Irish ones who became well known here, got released until the 1990’s, as their governments had not been illegally supplying arms to Iran, who controlled their proxies holding the hostages.

So by all means criticize any swap, though maybe in the context of the above consider the scale of things.
If it happens it won’t be criminal, much less treason.
 
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Aeroflot777
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:15 am

seb146 wrote:
Plenty of times.


Speaking for yourself?

seb146 wrote:
... how many times have you packed a bag for a long weekend upstate, got to your hotel and found something in one of the side pockets you forgot you put there from your last vacation?


To be honest, never. Would only make sense to empty everything out entirely prior to repacking, especially when crossing borders.

Also, what does a long weekend upstate have anything to do with this? She crossed a border into a different country with different laws. She crossed a border into a country where this substance is illegal, and she came there to work with a signed contract. Russia is far from being the the only country where this is punished by law.

Unfortunate situation, no doubt. But the cries of Americans on internet boards saying "these aren't even drugs", "what an unfair sentencing for a tiny bit of weed", "it's only a vape pen" and so on, are hard to sympathize with. She will mostly likely be traded anyway, so this conviction is a good thing actually. Without the conviction and end to the legal process, she would have been stuck in the loop even longer. Now the next step can be had.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:42 am

seb146 wrote:
She took a second job to support her family. Isn't that what we are supposed to do? Don't make enough money? Get another job! She did. As far as the cannisters, how many times have you packed a bag for a long weekend upstate, got to your hotel and found something in one of the side pockets you forgot you put there from your last vacation? Plenty of times.

We SHOULD be outraged an American has been arrested and charged under sketchy circumstances. But some of us are not. In fact, some of us are saying she should stay. For providing for her family.


Are you also outraged about Marc Fogel or is your outrage selective?
 
ltbewr
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:20 am

The irony with Ms.Griner's situation in Russia is how in Russia there is rampant alcoholism, likely heavy use of illegal drugs by the oligarchs, that the government itself had (and still has) clear policies on the use of performance enhancing drugs and cheating on processing of anti-drug testing of their athletes that has caused bans on Russian athletic teams and athletes.

I would also note that on some sites that allow comments with minimal monitoring on articles about Ms. Griner's situation in Russia, that many are openly racist and anti-LGTBQ, a few saying that Democrats are pushing for her release to get the Black vote and just overall general nastiness as to athletes.
 
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Aeroflot777
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:54 am

ltbewr wrote:
The irony with Ms.Griner's situation in Russia is how in Russia there is rampant alcoholism, likely heavy use of illegal drugs by the oligarchs, that the government itself had (and still has) clear policies on the use of performance enhancing drugs and cheating on processing of anti-drug testing of their athletes that has caused bans on Russian athletic teams and athletes.


What's the irony? This case is about drug charges for possession of illegal substances on her person at an airport. People are arrested in Russia on the streets for similar drug charges. Drug issues, and disturbances caused by them are taken quite seriously by police in major cities.

ltbewr wrote:
I would also note that on some sites that allow comments with minimal monitoring on articles about Ms. Griner's situation in Russia, that many are openly racist and anti-LGTBQ, a few saying that Democrats are pushing for her release to get the Black vote and just overall general nastiness as to athletes.


Open up any online news outlet, or social media thread right here in the USA and you'll find the same hate and racism throughout. And quite frankly it's getting worse by the day, seems like people are more and more divided these days.
 
bpatus297
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:10 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
The Biden administration lied about her being wrongfully held. Marijuana is still illegal by US federal law. I would have to believe the US CBP enforces those laws with zeal at major US points of entry. Will somebody please save these people from themselves.


The contradictions between state and federal policies in this area can really make one's teeth gnash, that's for sure.


As a libertarian, I believe in "live and let live" and think at it's most basic principal, all intoxicants should be legal (or at least not illegal). This is predicated on the idea of individual's freedom to chose, however we are shown time and time again that intoxicants (alcohol included) cause people to interfere with others personal liberties. So, I have a basic belief that all drugs should be legal, I don't know how that would be implemented to minimize the interference with others liberties. But no matter what the solution, having Federal law completely opposite most states laws is a receipt for disaster.
 
art
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:27 pm

It was reported yesterday on TV news in England that Biden had described her treatment as 'unacceptable'. Is this just an imperative in view of extreme current US-Russian tensions or does Biden genuinely think that the what Russia has done (apply Russian law in response to a criminal offence) is unacceptable?
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:39 pm

ReverseFlow wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Wacker1000 wrote:

No. We shouldn't. Their country, their rules. How would you react if Russian came here and told us how to deal with criminals? Oh wait - you're a liberal and hate America so you'd be okay with it.

She's just lucky she didn't do it in a country where drug charges carry capital punishment.


She is an American. Paul Whelan is an American. This is geopolitics, not national politics. World War 4 has started for those who do not understand. You bring them home. Eyes on the prize.
Have we skipped World War 3?
You've got your eyes so much on the prize that you don't see the bigger picture.



WW3 was the Cold War. America and Europe won. The prize is the biggest picture there is.
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:56 pm

Didn't she ever watch a episode of "Locked up abroad"? You have to be informed on laws of foreign countries. She would have been in big trouble had she landed back in a state like Texas and US CBP had found it. I am sure a deal will be brokered but it's going to be a while. Got to be careful when you pack. One time I was packing my bag 1/2 asleep when I was coming home from Germany, and I accidentally packed the remote control for the TV in my hotel room. Did not discover till I got home. Called hotel and FEDEX it back to them.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:26 pm

She had illegal drug related items with her when she entered another country. It's that simple. If it had been entering Saudi Arabia or Singapore or Brazil the same thing would have happened. And there would be little news about it. It was a dumb thing for her to bring.

I feel sorry for her but you just can't bring any questionable into other countries without risk. It is another country, it is their laws.

I long ago remember a girlfriend of mine shouting at a Mexican policeman in TJ "You can't do this to us, we're American..." to which I instantly responded "Shut the hell up, America is two miles that way!" and was very relieved to see the policeman smile a bit at that (and fortunately it did shut her up, it was just a ticket/money issue). Don't be stupid or flippant about laws when traveling to another country.

Tugg
 
alfa164
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:31 pm

GDB wrote:
This woman is clearly being used as a pawn, I agree she made a terrible mistake and Russia, y’know Trump’s buddy Putin and all that, is higher risk. Not seen the Trump apologists on the now very long Ukraine thread. In fact the Trump defenders are conspicuous by their absence. But even before that, a Westerner, going to Russia is risky, by virtue of it being a massively corrupt autocracy, like y’know, Trump’s vision for the US. Speaking of recent events, with the Taliban promise to not allow Al Queda to regenerate in Afghanistan, signed by Trump and here’s 6000 prisoners back as well, has been exposed as a sham with the head of said organization being killed recently. Sunning himself in a compound run by senior Taliban commanders.

I agree she should not be swapped for Bout. But if she is, small beer compared to the above and Reagan’s agreement, a precursor to the illegal arms his administration sold to Iran, to also illegally fund their Contra hero’s (who were very drug cartel adjacent, there’s your blowback for criminal foreign policies), to get a few US hostages out of Lebanon, all the while accusing European nations for being ‘soft on terrorism’, well none of them, at least the UK and Irish ones who became well known here, got released until the 1990’s, as their governments had not been illegally supplying arms to Iran, who controlled their proxies holding the hostages.

So by all means criticize any swap, though maybe in the context of the above consider the scale of things.
If it happens it won’t be criminal, much less treason.


Brittney Griner has put the administration in a difficult position, but she is not the first - nor will she be the last - to do so. I do think she is on the receiving end of some unjustified disregard because she is black and gay; if a white businessman were in the same situation, I am sure the right-wing loudmouths would be screaming that the USA should be doing everything possible to secure his release. Just look at who has demanded we turn the world upside-down to get Paul Whelan back, while decrying the possibility that we do the same for Griner.

It has always been our policy to extract US citizens from foreign countries when they are being held under dubious circumstances - and despite her violation of Russian law, I would agree with those who say that nine years is an outlandish penalty - and this is no exception. Victor Bout is a high price to pay, but if we can get both Americans out of Putin's grasp, it is a price we must pay. Right or wrong, black or white, they are Americans - and protecting them is what America does.


Pellegrine wrote:
She is an American. Paul Whelan is an American. This is geopolitics, not national politics. World War 4 has started for those who do not understand. You bring them home. Eyes on the prize.


:checkmark:


emperortk wrote:
I don't have much sympathy for Griner, but I'd be willing to swap a certain ex-President who has quite the affinity for Russia in order to bring her home.


:checkmark: :checkmark: . If only...
 
FlapOperator
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:04 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

Yeah but 'their country, their rules' should apply to us as well, and not selectively. Conservatives can't be all rah-rah about criminals who are illegal, but say virtually nothing about Saudi uni students committing all levels of felonies in the US and being whisked away back home on private jets with zero intervention from DHS or the State Dept. That has been going on the last several years, only got local press in places where it has happened, and to my knowledge only Dem senators from OR and MI have been activists about it.


Marco Rubio, among others, was outspoken to Trump about MbS.
 
johns624
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:11 pm

Paul Whelan seems to be an idiot, too. An amateur playing games that he shouldn't have.
 
ReverseFlow
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:39 pm

Does anyone know what a usual punishment for a similar thing would be in Russia?
 
FlapOperator
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:47 pm

ReverseFlow wrote:
Does anyone know what a usual punishment for a similar thing would be in Russia?


How wealthy is this hypothetical Russian?
 
FlapOperator
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:50 pm

johns624 wrote:
Paul Whelan seems to be an idiot, too. An amateur playing games that he shouldn't have.


Yeah. If the press is to be believed, he's an odd character who was doing something that high risk/low reward.
 
ReverseFlow
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:56 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
ReverseFlow wrote:
Does anyone know what a usual punishment for a similar thing would be in Russia?


How wealthy is this hypothetical Russian?
How about a wealth spread.
And I guess it probably depends if they are in Poutines good books if they are very rich?
 
victrola
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:29 pm

stratosphere wrote:
luckyone wrote:
While she's absolutely being made a political pawn, I also have a hard time finding any sympathy for her. You don't go to a place like Russia and not keep your wits about you, and this wasn't her first visit to Russia.


Wouldn't be the first time the Democrats have swapped a high value prisoner or in Obama's case prisoners for what I would call traitors. Obama let out just about all of GITMO for Bergdahl who was in fact a traitor. Griner isn't a traitor per se but certainly has no fondness for our country .[/quot

Where do you come up with this bullshit that she hates our country? I'm sick of right wing extremists in this country who believe that America is God's instrument in this world, and that America can do no wrong calling anyone who criticizes some of the injustices in the United States has done a hater of America. So go on and wave your flag and show us what a real patriot you are and continue to vote for the Republicans who have nothing but contempt for democratic process and the truth.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:27 pm

victrola wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
luckyone wrote:
While she's absolutely being made a political pawn, I also have a hard time finding any sympathy for her. You don't go to a place like Russia and not keep your wits about you, and this wasn't her first visit to Russia.


Wouldn't be the first time the Democrats have swapped a high value prisoner or in Obama's case prisoners for what I would call traitors. Obama let out just about all of GITMO for Bergdahl who was in fact a traitor. Griner isn't a traitor per se but certainly has no fondness for our country .[/quot

Where do you come up with this bullshit that she hates our country? I'm sick of right wing extremists in this country who believe that America is God's instrument in this world, and that America can do no wrong calling anyone who criticizes some of the injustices in the United States has done a hater of America. So go on and wave your flag and show us what a real patriot you are and continue to vote for the Republicans who have nothing but contempt for democratic process and the truth.



I've got to ask (as an Independent) - do you possible see your anger and hate is as bad as those you are mad at?
 
FlapOperator
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:32 pm

victrola wrote:

Where do you come up with this bullshit that she hates our country? I'm sick of right wing extremists in this country who believe that America is God's instrument in this world, and that America can do no wrong calling anyone who criticizes some of the injustices in the United States has done a hater of America. So go on and wave your flag and show us what a real patriot you are and continue to vote for the Republicans who have nothing but contempt for democratic process and the truth.


I'm certainly glad such contentious issues can be discussed with nuance and in non-reductionist terms.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:18 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
victrola wrote:

Where do you come up with this bullshit that she hates our country? I'm sick of right wing extremists in this country who believe that America is God's instrument in this world, and that America can do no wrong calling anyone who criticizes some of the injustices in the United States has done a hater of America. So go on and wave your flag and show us what a real patriot you are and continue to vote for the Republicans who have nothing but contempt for democratic process and the truth.


I'm certainly glad such contentious issues can be discussed with nuance and in non-reductionist terms.


I would not call it reductionist to say there are some who wrap themselves in the flag to mask whatever insecurity and call anyone who doesn’t do so unpatriotic. We just had someone like that in the WH.
 
FlapOperator
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:43 am

Aaron747 wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:
victrola wrote:

Where do you come up with this bullshit that she hates our country? I'm sick of right wing extremists in this country who believe that America is God's instrument in this world, and that America can do no wrong calling anyone who criticizes some of the injustices in the United States has done a hater of America. So go on and wave your flag and show us what a real patriot you are and continue to vote for the Republicans who have nothing but contempt for democratic process and the truth.


I'm certainly glad such contentious issues can be discussed with nuance and in non-reductionist terms.


I would not call it reductionist to say there are some who wrap themselves in the flag to mask whatever insecurity and call anyone who doesn’t do so unpatriotic. We just had someone like that in the WH.


Not reductionist at all. Completely.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:30 am

FlapOperator wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:

I'm certainly glad such contentious issues can be discussed with nuance and in non-reductionist terms.


I would not call it reductionist to say there are some who wrap themselves in the flag to mask whatever insecurity and call anyone who doesn’t do so unpatriotic. We just had someone like that in the WH.


Not reductionist at all. Completely.


Perhaps you missed the nuance in ‘there are some’. There are many contentious issues in the contemporary political environment - whether or not some use that environment to self-promote on the back of false patriotism is not among them.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:10 pm

The sentence is completely political and a negotiating tool for Russia to use as leverage. It is not about justice or any sensible view of reforming the behavior.

The fawning of the right wing over this sentence is completely irresponsible and ignorant. Most Americans get limited to no sentences for possession anymore.

The diplomatic officials will negotiate with Russia for prisoner exchanges, but make not mistake, this just further highlights the escalating tensions between the US and Russia.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Brittney Griner Sentenced to 9 yrs

Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:45 pm

casinterest wrote:
[...]Most Americans get limited to no sentences for possession anymore.
[...]

I get your post, except this part. It is not America where this took place and daily there are Americans that are jailed in other nations for felonies under their laws.

I have not heard many people here saying she "deserved this for doing drugs" really, only that this is what you get for dumbly ignoring another nations laws.

And honestly, would you bring a dozen plus vape cartridges into a country like Russia (or Singapore or Saudi Arabia etc.) where it is illegal?

Tugg

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