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Aaron747
Posts: 18384
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:07 am

marcelh wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
Vintage wrote:
That makes no sense to me; if he thinks something has been taken in error he should specify what that item is and ask for it's return.
It doesn't seem that he's suffered any loss if he can't even state what he wants back.


The claim is that the protocols used by the FBI filter team were established ex-parte, between the FBI and the judge, with no input or knowledge of the Trump legal team. So are inherently unfair to Trump.

The thing is, he also demanded a detailed inventory of what was seized, which the FBI could not provide without filtering & inspecting the documents. So I guess he expects the special master to do that, but my guess is the FBI will have finished before this gets resolved.

There is precedent for a special master in cases where privileged information is seized, so Trump is relying on the argument that all his materials are "presumptively privileged" as President. What may be different here, is that the records don't belong to him, but to the National Archives.


Nice legal distraction of Trump, but why did he took classified documents with him? And why did he only gave a part of it back earlier this year? Trump may be stupid, but he isn’t that stupid.


Combination of still litigating the election, a revolving door of bad legal advice and enablers, and blackmail on useful sycophants/foreign entities. My money's on those.
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2011
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:00 am

Aaron747 wrote:
marcelh wrote:

Nice legal distraction of Trump, but why did he took classified documents with him? And why did he only gave a part of it back earlier this year? Trump may be stupid, but he isn’t that stupid.


Combination of still litigating the election, a revolving door of bad legal advice and enablers, and blackmail on useful sycophants/foreign entities. My money's on those.


I think if it was only a matter of taking the documents, but then giving them all back on request, there wouldn't be a case. It could be blamed on a disorganized move, resulting from Trump being unwilling to cede the election. Still very wrong but I doubt they would pursue it.

But the negotiations that developed over giving them back, imply that he was unwilling, and that goes to obstruction and intent. Also the assertion that all were returned, when they weren't, and apparently insiders then informing the DoJ on him.

Then followed on with ridiculous claims like "standing order to declassify", and "presumptively privileged".

What he should have done, is let the National Archives decide what was personal, and then return it to him. Anything that was privileged, could be established as such by request to the Archives. And he would still have access to what he wanted, on loan to his own library. Like every other President.

But Trump being Trump, he had to do it his way. And here we are, with another Trumpian mess. And Trump blaming everyone else for it and feeling persecuted, which is also in character.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14915
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:32 pm

It would appear Trum only returned half the classified documents he had voluntarily:

Trump Had More Than 300 Classified Documents at Mar-a-Lago
The National Archives found more than 150 sensitive documents when it got a first batch of material from the former president in January, helping to explain the Justice Department’s urgent response.


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/22/us/p ... ments.html

best regards
Thomas
 
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seb146
Posts: 24935
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:48 pm

Just a quick point:

The FBI took only documents the National Archives were looking for. Only the ones he never should have been in possession of. If this were a political hit job orchestrated by Biden or Pelosi or Harris or (insert Democrat's name here), we would see his tax returns.

BTW, this raid was not political

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/0 ... s-00050547
https://www.newsweek.com/did-biden-know ... ow-1732190
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/w ... -lago-home

So everyone claiming this is because of politics is wrong.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:36 pm

It appears that in April, the National Archives delayed FBI access to the recovered records from January, based on Trump's assertion of executive privilege. The Archives then got a legal decision from the White House, that executive privilege could not be invoked by a former administration against the current administration.

Thus at the end of May, they granted the FBI access, which started the current investigation. They had been trying to involve the DoJ since February.

The DoJ and FBI then began a series of meetings with Trump lawyers in June, including a subpoena, out of concern that more classified records might exist at Mar-a-Lago.

Here is a link to the letter:

https://www.archives.gov/files/foia/wal ... 0.2022.pdf
 
aristoenigma
Posts: 362
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:03 pm

Imagine what will happen when the investigation finds evidence some of the documents were copied and digitized while at the beach house.
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:09 pm

aristoenigma wrote:
Imagine what will happen when the investigation finds evidence some of the documents were copied and digitized while at the beach house.

How would they ever find out about something like that?
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2011
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:16 am

Judge Cannon, who was assigned Trump's Fourth Amendment lawsuit filed yesterday, has requested clarification on several points. She also rejected two lawyer's request to assist in the case, due to improper filing.

Cannon’s order requests Trump’s legal team file a supplement to its motion elaborating on “the asserted basis for the exercise of this Court’s jurisdiction,” the “framework applicable to the exercise of such jurisdiction,” the “precise relief sought, including any request for injunctive relief pending resolution of the motion,” “the effect, if any, of the proceeding” before Reinhart, and the “status of Plaintiff’s efforts to perfect service on Defendant.”

So she is asking, why is this case before me instead of the judge handling the warrant, what is the status of that case, what is the impact of this motion on those proceedings, and what precisely are you asking me to do?

The latter is important since Trump did not request an injunction to stop the FBI filtering, he asked for a special master whom presumably would do that on his behalf. But the Court could not order the master to do so, which leaves open the question of whether the master would provide Trump with the relief he seeks.

I suspect this order is an allusion to Trump's meandering accusations against the FBI and DoJ, which have no legal, case law, or evidentiary significance to the court.

Basically the judge is schooling his legal team. This whole affair becomes more bizarre by the minute.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:17 am

The judge handling Trump's motion was not impressed by what his attorneys submitted - they have till Friday to basically clarify everything:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/2 ... o-00053378

The translation of this order basically reads 'learn how to do your damn job':

Image

https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1 ... rN24spQMHw
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2011
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:28 am

It will be interesting to see if they can clean this up with the existing legal team. You can see the impact of highly experienced lawyers not wanting to work with Trump. He's relying instead on lawyers that are loyal and are bendable to his will. But that doesn't necessarily work to his benefit.
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:28 am

Donald Trump has offered a swirling array of excuses for why he took secret documents from the White House, stashed them around his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, and refused to return them to the US government—which precipitated a raid by a team of FBI agents. The most recent Trump World narrative is not that the documents weren’t secret or needed to be kept secure. Actually, his lawyers now say, Trump is very interested in securing sensitive government documents. The reasoning seems to be that a country club allowing thousands of people to wander the grounds for a fee, will keep the material—said to include information labeled with the highest level of restriction, including some documents related to our nuclear arsenal—more secure than the ultra-secure, fortified residence of the most powerful person in the world, surrounded by law enforcement and military defenses. Also known as the White House.

On Laura Ingraham’s FOX News show Thursday night, Trump’s attorney Christina Bobb, told Ingraham that safeguarding the documents was all Trump was ever interested in.
After all, documents were kept in a basement storage room that not many people had access to. Plus, only one key existed for the lock on the door, Bobb said. When Ingraham pressed her to clarify that only one or two people were able to access the room, Bobb demurred, settling on “a very small number of people.”

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... afe-there/
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:49 am

aristoenigma wrote:
Donald Trump has offered a swirling array of excuses for why he took secret documents from the White House, stashed them around his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, and refused to return them to the US government—which precipitated a raid by a team of FBI agents. The most recent Trump World narrative is not that the documents weren’t secret or needed to be kept secure. Actually, his lawyers now say, Trump is very interested in securing sensitive government documents. The reasoning seems to be that a country club allowing thousands of people to wander the grounds for a fee, will keep the material—said to include information labeled with the highest level of restriction, including some documents related to our nuclear arsenal—more secure than the ultra-secure, fortified residence of the most powerful person in the world, surrounded by law enforcement and military defenses. Also known as the White House.

On Laura Ingraham’s FOX News show Thursday night, Trump’s attorney Christina Bobb, told Ingraham that safeguarding the documents was all Trump was ever interested in.
After all, documents were kept in a basement storage room that not many people had access to. Plus, only one key existed for the lock on the door, Bobb said. When Ingraham pressed her to clarify that only one or two people were able to access the room, Bobb demurred, settling on “a very small number of people.”

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... afe-there/


Pathetic for an ex-Marine....how can veterans stoop so low as to defend this crap? Oh right, $$$...
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:27 am

Why the F*ck didn't he just take scans of them or pictures on phone and store them on a 1cm square microSD card which could be easily hidden anywhere or even swallowed if his back was to the wall. If I came in to possession of confidential material I wouldn't be leaving it lying around.
 
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ER757
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:20 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
Why the F*ck didn't he just take scans of them or pictures on phone and store them on a 1cm square microSD card which could be easily hidden anywhere or even swallowed if his back was to the wall. If I came in to possession of confidential material I wouldn't be leaving it lying around.

Because he's not that bright?
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2011
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:39 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
Why the F*ck didn't he just take scans of them or pictures on phone and store them on a 1cm square microSD card which could be easily hidden anywhere or even swallowed if his back was to the wall. If I came in to possession of confidential material I wouldn't be leaving it lying around.


This assumes that his intention was to keep confidential documents in secret. I don't think that was it at all, he believes the documents belong to him. Has defended this by saying they were "presumptively privileged", that he had a "standing order" to declassify anything taken, and his lawyers testifying that he said "it's not theirs, it's mine".

That's the root of the whole problem. He should have let the National Archives determine what he could keep, as required by law. Had he done that, he could request the Archives to maintain privileged or confidential status while in their possession, that is very common and all presidents have done this. Those documents are archived but not available to the public.

Also he could request any desired documents be loaned to his Presidential library, which is curated in cooperation with the Archives. This is what Obama did, what all presidents have done.

He didn't do this because he's Trump, he does what he wants, then defies the authorities to do something about it, then claims persecution if they do.
Last edited by Avatar2go on Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
luckyone
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:47 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
PhilipBass wrote:
Why the F*ck didn't he just take scans of them or pictures on phone and store them on a 1cm square microSD card which could be easily hidden anywhere or even swallowed if his back was to the wall. If I came in to possession of confidential material I wouldn't be leaving it lying around.


This assumes that his intention was to keep confidential documents in secret. I don't think that was it at all, he believes the documents belong to him. Has defended this by saying they were "presumptively privileged", that he had a standing order to declassify anything taken, and his lawyers testifying that he said "it's not theirs, it's mine".

That's the root of the whole problem. He should have let the National Archives determine what he could keep, as required by law. Had he done that, he could request the Archives to maintain privileged or classified or confidential status while in their possession, that is very common and all presidents have done this. Those documents are archived but not available to the public.

Also he could request any desired documents be loaned to his Presidential library, which is curated in cooperation with the archives. This is what Obama did, what all presidents have done.

He didn't do this because he's Trump, he does what he wants, then defies the authorities to do something about it, then claims persecution if they do.

I think that's only part of the story. He likely has some documents that he didn't want to get out.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:03 pm

luckyone wrote:
I think that's only part of the story. He likely has some documents that he didn't want to get out.


That's a possibility as well. We'll have to see what is found by the FBI. If those documents are privileged or classified, we won't know for many years, even if they are in the National Archives.

In my mind, Trump's personality alone is sufficient to explain his actions. He resisted concession, which left him in a rush to vacate the White House. He took stuff in a very disorganized manner. He got caught by the Archives. Then he resisted giving the stuff back. He resisted the investigation, the subpoena, and the search warrant. It all fits Trump perfectly. Deny, resist, and claim persecution if compelled.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:27 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
luckyone wrote:
I think that's only part of the story. He likely has some documents that he didn't want to get out.


That's a possibility as well. We'll have to see what is found by the FBI. If those documents are privileged or classified, we won't know for many years, even if they are in the National Archives.

In my mind, Trump's personality alone is sufficient to explain his actions. He resisted concession, which left him in a rush to vacate the White House. He took stuff in a very disorganized manner. He got caught by the Archives. Then he resisted giving the stuff back. He resisted the investigation, the subpoena, and the search warrant. It all fits Trump perfectly. Deny, resist, and claim persecution if compelled.

And in the National Archive they won't get out. It is not like official docs and just free for viewing, even by law enforcement. They have to be requested and the request validated for any official or private presidential docs. Privileged docs won't be released (unless approved by the privileged participants) or time limits have expired etc.

Tugg
 
itsjustme
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:29 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
It would appear Trum only returned half the classified documents he had voluntarily:

Trump Had More Than 300 Classified Documents at Mar-a-Lago
The National Archives found more than 150 sensitive documents when it got a first batch of material from the former president in January, helping to explain the Justice Department’s urgent response.


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/22/us/p ... ments.html

best regards
Thomas


"Urgent" response? We now know the Biden Administration signed off on this back in April. Four months doesn't qualify as "urgent." Also, the Trump-hating judge they went shopping for authorized the warrant on Friday August 5th yet they waited until Monday August 8th to execute the warrant. Urgent? Please.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:41 pm

itsjustme wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
It would appear Trum only returned half the classified documents he had voluntarily:

Trump Had More Than 300 Classified Documents at Mar-a-Lago
The National Archives found more than 150 sensitive documents when it got a first batch of material from the former president in January, helping to explain the Justice Department’s urgent response.


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/22/us/p ... ments.html

best regards
Thomas


"Urgent" response? We now know the Biden Administration signed off on this back in April. Four months doesn't qualify as "urgent." Also, the Trump-hating judge they went shopping for authorized the warrant on Friday August 5th yet they waited until Monday August 8th to execute the warrant. Urgent? Please.


Wow someone has clearly never been exposed to the inner workings of bureaucratic processes....four months is awfully fast in government time.
 
luckyone
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:34 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
itsjustme wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
It would appear Trum only returned half the classified documents he had voluntarily:



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/22/us/p ... ments.html

best regards
Thomas


"Urgent" response? We now know the Biden Administration signed off on this back in April. Four months doesn't qualify as "urgent." Also, the Trump-hating judge they went shopping for authorized the warrant on Friday August 5th yet they waited until Monday August 8th to execute the warrant. Urgent? Please.


Wow someone has clearly never been exposed to the inner workings of bureaucratic processes....four months is awfully fast in government time.

Yeah it’s almost like they shouldn’t be prudent before conducting a search and seizure of a former POTUS’ personal property, particularly one known to be as combative as Trump. What’s with those people…
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:21 pm

itsjustme wrote:

"Urgent" response? We now know the Biden Administration signed off on this back in April. Four months doesn't qualify as "urgent." Also, the Trump-hating judge they went shopping for authorized the warrant on Friday August 5th yet they waited until Monday August 8th to execute the warrant. Urgent? Please.


It helps to consider the whole timeline, and that Trump's rights have been respected, despite what he claims.

Trump transferred his Presidential records to the National Archives as he left the White House. As they catalogued the items, they became aware of omissions, and asked his team to check what they had taken. The team reported that there were documents at Mar-a-Lago, and prepared 15 boxes for pickup. This transpired over the span of a year, Jan 2021 to Jan 2022.

The Archives became alarmed that the documents retrieved contained classified information. They alerted the DoJ, who involved the FBI. Trump's team then invoked executive privilege to prevent the Archives from granting access to the FBI. The Archives cannot give the documents to anyone else, even the FBI, without permission and due process. Trump's team was invited to provide legal justification for privilege, within 30 days. They did not do so, and in the meantime, the Biden administration said they would decline to assert executive privilege. So the FBI was granted access. This whole process took another 4 to 5 months, through May 2022.

When the FBI saw the classified documents from January, they immediately questioned whether there were more documents at Mar-a-Lago. There followed a series of meetings, which in turn led to a subpoena and physical inspection, in June. The Trump team signed a document saying there were no more classified documents at Mar-a-Lago.

Then witnesses came forward to say that classified documents remained, along with their locations in the compound. The Archives also confirmed that not all documents were accounted for. Based on this the DoJ got a search warrant on a Friday afternoon, which they executed on a Monday morning, retrieving the suspected documents. They didn't conduct the search on a weekend. This process took a further 2 months.

Since then, the DoJ has moved to release the warrant, the seized inventory, and the court decision to authorize the warrant. But has opposed the release of the warrant affidavit, which includes information about the investigation and witnesses.
 
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seb146
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:57 am

itsjustme wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
It would appear Trum only returned half the classified documents he had voluntarily:

Trump Had More Than 300 Classified Documents at Mar-a-Lago
The National Archives found more than 150 sensitive documents when it got a first batch of material from the former president in January, helping to explain the Justice Department’s urgent response.


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/22/us/p ... ments.html

best regards
Thomas


"Urgent" response? We now know the Biden Administration signed off on this back in April. Four months doesn't qualify as "urgent." Also, the Trump-hating judge they went shopping for authorized the warrant on Friday August 5th yet they waited until Monday August 8th to execute the warrant. Urgent? Please.


The National Archives (a NON PARTISAN position) has asked nicely for the return of those documents since January 2021

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... ives-2021/
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/13/11172970 ... -watergate

Since there was no response in over a year and a half, they got law enforcement involved to enforce laws.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:20 pm

Judge Reinhart has ordered the redacted affidavit for the Trump search warrant, to be released by noon on Friday. He said the DoJ had met the burden of cause for all the proposed redactions.

My guess is the redactions will be very significant, which will be protested on the right. But perhaps not by the media that brought the suit.

Friday should be interesting as the affidavit will be released at the same time as Trump's clarification for the appointment of a special master to stop the FBI processing of the recovered documents.

Here is the order:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... idavit.pdf
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:50 am

Another piece of the Mar-a-Lago puzzle. Insiders claim that Trump has been advised by Tom Fitton of Judicial Watch, that the documents belong to him, and not the National Archives. While Trump has publicly been claiming cooperation with the Archives, privately he has doubts about turning over the materials, and has been resisting.

Fitton's position is based on a lawsuit he lost in 2012, when he requested that the Archives seize taped interviews President Clinton gave to an historian, as presidential records, so that Fitton could file a FOIA request for them. The Archives denied that the tapes were under their purview, as they were a private arrangement between Clinton and the historian, and not government business. A judge ruled in favor of that view, and dismissed the case, saying the Archives had no authority to declare the records as presidential, or to seize them.

Fitton believes this sets a precedent that the Archives cannot evaluate records as presidential or not, or request them from Trump, and is an example of the double standard applied to Trump as opposed to Clinton.

So once again, Trump is badly advised by a right wing whack job, but believes it because it agrees with what he wants. He's vulnerable to anyone who sustains his belief that he's treated unfairly. Which is why he also made the nation vulnerable to these people while President.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics ... index.html
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:47 am

Avatar2go wrote:
Another piece of the Mar-a-Lago puzzle. Insiders claim that Trump has been advised by Tom Fitton of Judicial Watch, that the documents belong to him, and not the National Archives. While Trump has publicly been claiming cooperation with the Archives, privately he has doubts about turning over the materials, and has been resisting.

Fitton's position is based on a lawsuit he lost in 2012, when he requested that the Archives seize taped interviews President Clinton gave to an historian, as presidential records, so that Fitton could file a FOIA request for them. The Archives denied that the tapes were under their purview, as they were a private arrangement between Clinton and the historian, and not government business. A judge ruled in favor of that view, and dismissed the case, saying the Archives had no authority to declare the records as presidential, or to seize them.

Fitton believes this sets a precedent that the Archives cannot evaluate records as presidential or not, or request them from Trump, and is an example of the double standard applied to Trump as opposed to Clinton.

So once again, Trump is badly advised by a right wing whack job, but believes it because it agrees with what he wants. He's vulnerable to anyone who sustains his belief that he's treated unfairly. Which is why he also made the nation vulnerable to these people while President.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics ... index.html


Tom Fitton is the ultimate grifter hack. He has no legal training, ousted his former boss and mentor to take over JW, and preys on conservatives paranoid about the government to fund his lifestyle. Based on the few times I’ve seen him on TV, he is also incredibly vain - he spends way more time bench-pressing than reading on any of the topics he claims to be concerned about. A vile leech at the end of the day, helping to divide and poison political discourse for profit.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:53 am

Aaron747 wrote:

Tom Fitton is the ultimate grifter hack. He has no legal training, ousted his former boss and mentor to take over JW, and preys on conservatives paranoid about the government to fund his lifestyle. Based on the few times I’ve seen him on TV, he is also incredibly vain - he spends way more time bench-pressing than reading on any of the topics he claims to be concerned about. A vile leech at the end of the day, helping to divide and poison political discourse for profit.


These people must view Trump as a gift from heaven. All of them, Powell, Bannon, Stone, Flynn, Giuliani, Eastman, Bobb, Fritton, gain access to power and stature through reinforcing Trump's paranoia. They are like the ultimate Wormtongue collective.

Which in a sense, mirrors Trump's relationship with his base. He preys on their fears and tells them what they want to hear. It's all kind of one big exercise in manipulation. I've referenced the McCarthy era as a similar phenomenon, with the connecting link between them being Roy Cohn.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:54 am

Trump is unlikely to ever face serous charges and will never see the inside of a jail over the security sensitive documents at MAL. The critical documents have been returned after a series of delays by both the DOJ/National Archives and Trump and his lawyers, that is the real and most important goal. To determine if Trump ever sold info in the security sensitive documents to allies and not of the USA may involve disclosures of critical CIA and other 'spook agencies' actions and how they found out about it - for sure that info can never be publicly known. Sadly too, the fear of violence on persons from the DOJ, FBI & National Archives by Trump and his supporters will also cause them to not prosecute Trump or some others around him. It will be interesting to see the redacted supporting affidavit used to get the search warrant when disclosed as to need to take the action.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:01 am

Avatar2go wrote:
So once again, Trump is badly advised by a right wing whack job, but believes it because it agrees with what he wants. He's vulnerable to anyone who sustains his belief that he's treated unfairly. Which is why he also made the nation vulnerable to these people while President.


It's amusing that the grifter-in-chief can be played so easily. His ego will eventually bring him down.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:23 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Tom Fitton is the ultimate grifter hack. He has no legal training, ousted his former boss and mentor to take over JW, and preys on conservatives paranoid about the government to fund his lifestyle. Based on the few times I’ve seen him on TV, he is also incredibly vain - he spends way more time bench-pressing than reading on any of the topics he claims to be concerned about. A vile leech at the end of the day, helping to divide and poison political discourse for profit.


These people must view Trump as a gift from heaven. All of them, Powell, Bannon, Stone, Flynn, Giuliani, Eastman, Bobb, Fritton, gain access to power and stature through reinforcing Trump's paranoia. They are like the ultimate Wormtongue collective.

Which in a sense, mirrors Trump's relationship with his base. He preys on their fears and tells them what they want to hear. It's all kind of one big exercise in manipulation. I've referenced the McCarthy era as a similar phenomenon, with the connecting link between them being Roy Cohn.


Oh it’s plenty awful - this is what grift mails from the Trump family look like:

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/156 ... zsX1r3mjOg
 
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casinterest
Posts: 16038
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:35 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Tom Fitton is the ultimate grifter hack. He has no legal training, ousted his former boss and mentor to take over JW, and preys on conservatives paranoid about the government to fund his lifestyle. Based on the few times I’ve seen him on TV, he is also incredibly vain - he spends way more time bench-pressing than reading on any of the topics he claims to be concerned about. A vile leech at the end of the day, helping to divide and poison political discourse for profit.


These people must view Trump as a gift from heaven. All of them, Powell, Bannon, Stone, Flynn, Giuliani, Eastman, Bobb, Fritton, gain access to power and stature through reinforcing Trump's paranoia. They are like the ultimate Wormtongue collective.

Which in a sense, mirrors Trump's relationship with his base. He preys on their fears and tells them what they want to hear. It's all kind of one big exercise in manipulation. I've referenced the McCarthy era as a similar phenomenon, with the connecting link between them being Roy Cohn.



Bill Barr has another theory.

https://news.yahoo.com/barr-trump-using ... 01391.html

The tactic that Trump is using to exert this control over the Republican Party is extortion,” Barr said of his former boss. “What other great leader has done this? Telling the party, ‘If it’s not me, I’m going to ruin your election chances by telling my base to sit home. And I’ll sabotage whoever you nominate other than me.’ It shows what he’s all about. He’s all about himself.”
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:04 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Trump is unlikely to ever face serous charges and will never see the inside of a jail over the security sensitive documents at MAL. The critical documents have been returned after a series of delays by both the DOJ/National Archives and Trump and his lawyers, that is the real and most important goal. To determine if Trump ever sold info in the security sensitive documents to allies and not of the USA may involve disclosures of critical CIA and other 'spook agencies' actions and how they found out about it - for sure that info can never be publicly known. Sadly too, the fear of violence on persons from the DOJ, FBI & National Archives by Trump and his supporters will also cause them to not prosecute Trump or some others around him. It will be interesting to see the redacted supporting affidavit used to get the search warrant when disclosed as to need to take the action.



We will find out. IMHO
 
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casinterest
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:48 pm

And now we have the Affidavit

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/26/politics ... index.html

June 8, 2022, DOJ COUNSEL sent FPOTUS COUNSEL 1 a letter, which
reiterated that the PREMISES are not autho1ized to store classified info1mation and requested the
preservation of the STORAGE ROOM and boxes that had been moved from the White House to
the PREMISES. Specifically, the letter stated in relevant part:
As I previously indicated to you, Mar-a-Lago does not include a secure location
authorized for the storage of classified inf01mation. As such, it appears that since the time
classified documents were removed
from the secure facilities at the White House and moved to Mar-a-Lago on or around
Januaiy 20, 2021, they have not been handled in au approp1iate manner or stored in au
appropriate location. Accordingly, we ask that the room at Mar-a-Lago where the
documents had been stored be secured and that all of the boxes that were moved from the
White House to Mar-a-Lago (along with any other items in that room) be preserved in that
room in their cunent condition lmtil farther notice.



Then you couple it with the below.

https://newsinteractive.post-gazette.co ... stigation/
A year before the FBI’s spectacular raid of the former president’s seaside home, the woman whose real name is Inna Yashchyshyn, a Russian-speaking immigrant from Ukraine, made several trips into the estate posing as a member of the famous family while making inroads with some of the former president’s key supporters.




If it was any of us,. we would be in jail for treason.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:13 pm

Notable that the FBI warrant execution had a Law Enforcement team authorized to collect documents, and a Privilege Review team to determine what documents could or should be withheld from the Law Enforcement team. That process is being repeated again now, with the FBI filter team.

Also under the conditions of the warrant, boxes containing classified documents could be seized in their entirety, on the grounds of insecure storage and probability of other similar materials being found. Which explains how some Trump personal effects were swept up, if they were co-located.

The letter from Trump counsel asserts the Presidential right to declassify any and all documents, which was the sole defense until the warrant was executed.

Here is the affidavit:

https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.c ... 541021.pdf
Last edited by Avatar2go on Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 16329
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:13 pm

From the disclosed parts of the search affidavit, it is made clear that Trump illegally and improperly possessed documents in general and specifically of highly national security sensitively belonging to the National Archives from the time of the end of his term of office to the date of the recovery of them and that Trump's counsel openly didn't properly respond for request for those documents. It gives a time line of events from when the document left the WH to the date of the raid, attempts to recover them and numbers of documents with security sensitive status. It mostly puts the blame on Trump and his attorneys. Of course many details were not disclosed as necessary.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:26 pm

 
User avatar
flyingturtle
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:18 pm

I've read the affidavit. It says that the *previously* retrieved documents contained:

- Confidential, secret, top secret, compartmented info and also NOFORN intelligence. NOFORN? That knowledge is not even shared with U.S. allies.
- The topics of these documents were human intelligence and signals intelligence. This could range from lists of active agents, to their reports to the technologies and capabilities of US spy satellites.
- The 15 boxes contained stuff that was not sorted at all. Classified documents are always accompanied with a folder. But the secret papers were intermingled with newspaper cutouts, Trump's handwritten notes, personal letters and other stuff.

That's what we learned from the affidavit. We still haven't learned what the FBI's raid on Mar-a-Lago has yielded.

The much bigger surprise could be investigations of Jared Kushner, who sought intelligence clearances. Trump overruled the objections of intelligence agencies not a few times... but a whopping 35 times. And we know that Kushner received hefty investments from Saudi parties.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:38 pm

The affidavit mostly confirms what was already known. And clearly indicates there was probable cause for the search, based on what was found in two earlier document batches.

The question is why Trump would call for the release, knowing there would be no exculpatory evidence in it. Did he think it would contain a political motivation for the search? That's all I can think of, that he would point to the affidavit and say see, they're persecuting me. But there is nothing remotely like that in there.
 
BN747
Posts: 7994
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:16 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
The affidavit mostly confirms what was already known. And clearly indicates there was probable cause for the search, based on what was found in two earlier document batches.

The question is why Trump would call for the release, knowing there would be no exculpatory evidence in it. Did he think it would contain a political motivation for the search? That's all I can think of, that he would point to the affidavit and say see, they're persecuting me. But there is nothing remotely like that in there.


Do you actually believe you can ascribe logical thought to the least logical person to ever lead the mightiest nation in human history?

His first stroke of vulgarity was stealing his dying brother, Fred Trump Jr and his wife and kids of their share of inheritance - see any Mary Trump article.
That level of cruelty certifies you for instant mafioso material - but FF - after holding the office of any person's most impressive achievements, like a Suge Knight or Al Capone gangster..it's hard to go back to being a lieutenant. It's just not happening...but should they come for you - take Everything that isn't nailed down.

..that's the Mafia logic, he's all ready flung their terms of rats and snitches.

The Law and Order Party delivered the Most Lawless Criminal to 1600 Pennsylvania Av.
And the Christians followed suit and went after the the very qualifying Anti-Christ suited model to lead them, he even called himself 'the chosen one'....a Pathological Liar who will never relent.


BN747
 
luckyone
Posts: 4677
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:08 pm

BN747 wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
The affidavit mostly confirms what was already known. And clearly indicates there was probable cause for the search, based on what was found in two earlier document batches.

The question is why Trump would call for the release, knowing there would be no exculpatory evidence in it. Did he think it would contain a political motivation for the search? That's all I can think of, that he would point to the affidavit and say see, they're persecuting me. But there is nothing remotely like that in there.


Do you actually believe you can ascribe logical thought to the least logical person to ever lead the mightiest nation in human history?

His first stroke of vulgarity was stealing his dying brother, Fred Trump Jr and his wife and kids of their share of inheritance - see any Mary Trump article.
That level of cruelty certifies you for instant mafioso material - but FF - after holding the office of any person's most impressive achievements, like a Suge Knight or Al Capone gangster..it's hard to go back to being a lieutenant. It's just not happening...but should they come for you - take Everything that isn't nailed down.

..that's the Mafia logic, he's all ready flung their terms of rats and snitches.

The Law and Order Party delivered the Most Lawless Criminal to 1600 Pennsylvania Av.
And the Christians followed suit and went after the the very qualifying Anti-Christ suited model to lead them, he even called himself 'the chosen one'....a Pathological Liar who will never relent.


BN747

Mafia logic, the chance to cry wolf again, and a slim chance he’d learn who blabbed.
 
bhill
Posts: 1932
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:47 pm

This:
I've read the affidavit. It says that the *previously* retrieved documents contained:

- Confidential, secret, top secret, compartmented info and also NOFORN intelligence. NOFORN? That knowledge is not even shared with U.S. allies.
- The topics of these documents were human intelligence and signals intelligence. This could range from lists of active agents, to their reports to the technologies and capabilities of US spy satellites.
- The 15 boxes contained stuff that was not sorted at all. Classified documents are always accompanied with a folder. But the secret papers were intermingled with newspaper cutouts, Trump's handwritten notes, personal letters and other stuff.

Aaaand This!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html

Lets not forget this as well:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44852812

Yeah, I am concerned. These documents were at unsecured locations at his resort. Unsecured meaning the standards of the DoD and NSA for safeguarding documents.
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2011
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:10 pm

There is no news today of Trump's clarification filing on his special master request to Judge Aileen Cannon, which was due by end of day. Possibly lost in the clamor over the affidavit release. I'd really like to see what his answers are to the judge's questions.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:45 am

All I can say is: what a strange family

https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/ ... VrILqV72mQ
 
luckyone
Posts: 4677
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Aug 27, 2022 1:28 am

Aaron747 wrote:
All I can say is: what a strange family

https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/ ... VrILqV72mQ

How nice of him to hide evidence of his father wetting himself. He’s such a good son.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18384
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:46 am

luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
All I can say is: what a strange family

https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/ ... VrILqV72mQ

How nice of him to hide evidence of his father wetting himself. He’s such a good son.


Regularly doing blow builds character...and paternal loyalty. :hyper:
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:02 am

luckyone wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
The affidavit mostly confirms what was already known. And clearly indicates there was probable cause for the search, based on what was found in two earlier document batches.

The question is why Trump would call for the release, knowing there would be no exculpatory evidence in it. Did he think it would contain a political motivation for the search? That's all I can think of, that he would point to the affidavit and say see, they're persecuting me. But there is nothing remotely like that in there.


Do you actually believe you can ascribe logical thought to the least logical person to ever lead the mightiest nation in human history?

His first stroke of vulgarity was stealing his dying brother, Fred Trump Jr and his wife and kids of their share of inheritance - see any Mary Trump article.
That level of cruelty certifies you for instant mafioso material - but FF - after holding the office of any person's most impressive achievements, like a Suge Knight or Al Capone gangster..it's hard to go back to being a lieutenant. It's just not happening...but should they come for you - take Everything that isn't nailed down.

..that's the Mafia logic, he's all ready flung their terms of rats and snitches.

The Law and Order Party delivered the Most Lawless Criminal to 1600 Pennsylvania Av.
And the Christians followed suit and went after the the very qualifying Anti-Christ suited model to lead them, he even called himself 'the chosen one'....a Pathological Liar who will never relent.


BN747

Mafia logic, the chance to cry wolf again, and a slim chance he’d learn who blabbed.


In all seriousness, given the family’s financial liabilities and debt coming due, let’s all hope this story ultimately has no connection to this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/us/p ... tured.html

Aside from Trump Organization loans underwritten by Russian state banks, let’s not forget that the Kushner company was also in hock to the Saudis for an NYC property.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/ho ... -business/

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... the-saudis
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2011
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:16 am

And instantly mocked online with mushroom memes, thanks to commentary by Stormy Daniels.

National Geographic did a great series on planet Earth called "One Strange Rock". Little did they know how strange it truly is.
 
Newark727
Posts: 3130
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:23 am

Aaron747 wrote:
All I can say is: what a strange family

https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/ ... VrILqV72mQ


I, uh... what? Huh? Why would he post this? About his dad? My brain hurts!
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2011
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:30 am

Late this evening, Trump did file his response to the request for clarification of his motion to appoint a special master, to oversee materials seized by the FBI.

1. The reason given for seeking relief from the district court (Judge Cannon), is that in their view, the magistrate court that issued the warrant (Judge Reinhart), does not have sufficiently broad authority to grant the sought after relief.

2. The reason given as the basis of the relief, is that the seized documents are presumptively covered by executive privilege, and therefore subject to a special master to prevent their exposure to law enforcement.

3. The specific relief sought now includes an injunction to stop the FBI from reviewing materials, the appointment of the special master, a detailed inventory of all documents seized, and the return of documents seized outside the scope of the warrant.

4. There is no effect on the warrant case before Judge Reinhart, since it has concluded with the release of the redacted affidavit, and Trump was not a party to that litigation.

5. Trump has now served the DoJ with a summons for return of the seized documents. Their refusal thus creates the basis for seeking relief from the district court (Judge Cannon).

So it looks like they have cleaned up the legal errors cited by Judge Cannon. This brief also has removed all the bombastic language and unrelated claims of persecution. But the weakness of their case remains the claim of privilege.

The case law they cited was the warrant seizure of Giuliani's office records in 2021. In that case, the DoJ asked the court for a special master, because as a practicing attorney, Giuliani's records were presumptively privileged. Trump is apparently making the same claim, but he is not an attorney and has no clients. Also his appeal to executive privilege ended when he left office. Only the current administration can claim executive privilege, and they have declined to do so in this case.

Lastly the contradictory request for the FBI to stop their review, but also submit a detailed inventory that identifies privileged or personal documents outside the scope of the warrant, still remains. They cannot do both, as the inventory implies the review.

So it will be interesting to see how Judge Cannon rules. She may temporarily grant an injunction while she considers the merits, and/or request the existing inventory. Or she may reach a summary judgement for denial.

Here is the brief:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... uments.pdf
Last edited by Avatar2go on Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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seb146
Posts: 24935
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:35 am

Avatar2go wrote:
Late this evening, Trump did file his response to the request for clarification of his motion to appoint a special master, to oversee materials seized by the FBI.

1. The reason given for seeking relief from the district court (Judge Cannon), is that the magistrate court that issued the warrant (Judge Reinhart), does not have sufficiently broad authority to grant the sought after relief.

2. The reason given as the basis of the relief, is that the seized documents are presumptively covered by executive privilege, and therefore subject to a special master to prevent their exposure to law enforcement.

3. The specific relief sought now includes an injunction to stop the FBI from reviewing materials, the appointment of the special master, a detailed inventory of all documents seized, and the return of documents seized outside the scope of the warrant.

4. There is no effect on the warrant case before Judge Reinhart, since it has concluded with the release of the redacted affidavit, and Trump was not a party to that litigation.

5. Trump has now served the DoJ with a summons for return of the seized documents. Their refusal thus creates the basis for seeking relief from the district court (Judge Cannon).

So it looks like they have cleaned up the legal errors cited by Judge Cannon. This brief also has removed all the bombastic language and unrelated claims of persecution. But the weakness of their case remains the claim of privilege.

The case law they cited was the warrant seizure of Giuliani's office records in 2021. In that case, the DoJ asked the court for a special master, because as a practicing attorney, Giuliani's records were presumptively privileged. Trump is apparently making the same claim, but he is not an attorney and has no clients. Also his appeal to executive privilege ended when he left office. Only the current administration can claim executive privilege, and they have declined to do so in this case.

Lastly the contradictory request for the FBI to stop their review, but also submit a detailed inventory that identifies privileged or personal documents outside the scope of the warrant, still remains. They cannot do both, as the inventory implies the review.

So it will be interesting to see how Judge Cannon rules. She may grant temporarily grant an injunction while she considers the merits, and/or request the existing inventory. Or she may reach a summary judgement for denial.

Here is the brief:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... uments.pdf


Do judges of this level (Judge Canon and Judge Reinhart) swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic as all other government officials (president, vice president, Senators, House members, governors, etc.) do?
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