Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2092
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:42 am

seb146 wrote:

Do judges of this level (Judge Canon and Judge Reinhart) swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic as all other government officials (president, vice president, Senators, House members, governors, etc.) do?


The required oath for federal judges is different from the executive oath, but still references the Constitution:

“I, ___ ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as ___ under the Constitution and laws of the United States. So help me God.”
 
GDB
Posts: 16251
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Aug 27, 2022 5:12 am

seb146 wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
Late this evening, Trump did file his response to the request for clarification of his motion to appoint a special master, to oversee materials seized by the FBI.

1. The reason given for seeking relief from the district court (Judge Cannon), is that the magistrate court that issued the warrant (Judge Reinhart), does not have sufficiently broad authority to grant the sought after relief.

2. The reason given as the basis of the relief, is that the seized documents are presumptively covered by executive privilege, and therefore subject to a special master to prevent their exposure to law enforcement.

3. The specific relief sought now includes an injunction to stop the FBI from reviewing materials, the appointment of the special master, a detailed inventory of all documents seized, and the return of documents seized outside the scope of the warrant.

4. There is no effect on the warrant case before Judge Reinhart, since it has concluded with the release of the redacted affidavit, and Trump was not a party to that litigation.

5. Trump has now served the DoJ with a summons for return of the seized documents. Their refusal thus creates the basis for seeking relief from the district court (Judge Cannon).

So it looks like they have cleaned up the legal errors cited by Judge Cannon. This brief also has removed all the bombastic language and unrelated claims of persecution. But the weakness of their case remains the claim of privilege.

The case law they cited was the warrant seizure of Giuliani's office records in 2021. In that case, the DoJ asked the court for a special master, because as a practicing attorney, Giuliani's records were presumptively privileged. Trump is apparently making the same claim, but he is not an attorney and has no clients. Also his appeal to executive privilege ended when he left office. Only the current administration can claim executive privilege, and they have declined to do so in this case.

Lastly the contradictory request for the FBI to stop their review, but also submit a detailed inventory that identifies privileged or personal documents outside the scope of the warrant, still remains. They cannot do both, as the inventory implies the review.

So it will be interesting to see how Judge Cannon rules. She may grant temporarily grant an injunction while she considers the merits, and/or request the existing inventory. Or she may reach a summary judgement for denial.

Here is the brief:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... uments.pdf


Do judges of this level (Judge Canon and Judge Reinhart) swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic as all other government officials (president, vice president, Senators, House members, governors, etc.) do?


That 18th century stuff shown not to mean a thing, if you are rich, white, can call on a violent mob.
Otherwise this thread would be following his trial for treason.
Think otherwise? Explain the above, a clearer case is hard to imagine given what has been found, not to mention aspects of his time is office.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4700
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:02 am

Aaron747 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
All I can say is: what a strange family

https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/ ... VrILqV72mQ

How nice of him to hide evidence of his father wetting himself. He’s such a good son.


Regularly doing blow builds character...and paternal loyalty. :hyper:

Well, if there were any lingering doubts about the size of Trump’s…ego…we can put those to rest. It’s of a magnitude that his SON has to tell the world how big it is. What a loser his son must be.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 24972
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:30 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Do judges of this level (Judge Canon and Judge Reinhart) swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic as all other government officials (president, vice president, Senators, House members, governors, etc.) do?


The required oath for federal judges is different from the executive oath, but still references the Constitution:

“I, ___ ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as ___ under the Constitution and laws of the United States. So help me God.”


In other words:

No one is above the law.

In theory.
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2092
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:50 am

Judge Cannon has issued an order for a hearing on the Trump special master request, for Thursday Sept 1.

DoJ must respond by Tuesday with a sealed detailed inventory of materials seized, as well as a statement of progress on the material review. They must also define how a special master would govern the materials while in FBI possession.

Trump must respond to this submission by Wednesday evening with his requirements for the special master.

The judge said she has preliminary intent to appoint a special master, but that should not be construed as a final decision.

Here is the order:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 3.29.0.pdf
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2092
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:10 pm

The DoJ has responded to Judge Cannon's order issued on Saturday.

1. The FBI filter teams have concluded the review of seized materials, and have identified limited documents that may be subject to attorney client privelege.

2. The materials are also undergoing an intelligence assessment by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, to determine whether the materials can be released.

3. The DoJ will respond with a sealed list of seized materials, as directed by the judicial order.

Here is the filing:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... master.pdf
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18397
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:10 am

Wow, I remember when The Federalist at least professed to care about American institutions...

https://thefederalist.com/2022/08/29/th ... lago-play/
 
afcjets
Posts: 4090
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:30 am

Here is an interesting development, although I think this is nothing more than an attempt to find a scapegoat for this obvious political stunt. Here is a preview:

"FBI agent Tim Thibault was escorted from FBI headquarters on Friday.

He was the mastermind behind the affidavit to raid Mar-a-Lago.

He has longtime connections to the Clintons and the Obamas.

Thibault was the FBI official who was Assistant Agent in Charge (ASAC) in investigating voter fraud in the 2020 election."

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/0 ... ud-failed/
 
alfa164
Posts: 4157
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:36 am

afcjets wrote:
Here is an interesting development, although I think this is nothing more than an attempt to find a scapegoat for this obvious political stunt. Here is a preview:
"FBI agent Tim Thibault was escorted from FBI headquarters on Friday. He was the mastermind behind the affidavit to raid Mar-a-Lago. He has longtime connections to the Clintons and the Obamas. Thibault was the FBI official who was Assistant Agent in Charge (ASAC) in investigating voter fraud in the 2020 election."
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/0 ... ud-failed/


Ah... so the conspiracy theories will begin this way!

:roll:

But you do realize that the FBI found exactly what they said they were looking for: classified and top secret documents, illegally taken to the ex-president's personal playground. You do realize that... don't you?
 
afcjets
Posts: 4090
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:45 am

alfa164 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Here is an interesting development, although I think this is nothing more than an attempt to find a scapegoat for this obvious political stunt. Here is a preview:
"FBI agent Tim Thibault was escorted from FBI headquarters on Friday. He was the mastermind behind the affidavit to raid Mar-a-Lago. He has longtime connections to the Clintons and the Obamas. Thibault was the FBI official who was Assistant Agent in Charge (ASAC) in investigating voter fraud in the 2020 election."
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/08/breaking-fbi-agent-tim-thibault-opened-trump-investigation-escorted-headquarters-fbi-agent-charge-investigating-voter-fraud-failed/


Ah... so the conspiracy theories will begin this way!

:roll:

But you do realize that the FBI found exactly what they said they were looking for: classified and top secret documents, illegally taken to the ex-president's personal playground. You do realize that... don't you?


And yet they still escort the the long time agent assigned to the highest profile cases out of the building. Perhaps what he sought to justify the raid didn't justify the raid after all.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18397
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:56 am

afcjets wrote:
Here is an interesting development, although I think this is nothing more than an attempt to find a scapegoat for this obvious political stunt. Here is a preview:

"FBI agent Tim Thibault was escorted from FBI headquarters on Friday.

He was the mastermind behind the affidavit to raid Mar-a-Lago.

He has longtime connections to the Clintons and the Obamas.

Thibault was the FBI official who was Assistant Agent in Charge (ASAC) in investigating voter fraud in the 2020 election."

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/0 ... ud-failed/


Perhaps you missed this detail in one of GP's linked articles in that piece:

Thibault, Grassley confirmed, was reassigned to an unspecified posting prior to the bureau securing a warrant to raid Trump's estate. Sources briefed on the raid confirmed to Just the News that the agents came from the Washington Field Office, in which Thibault was serving until just days prior.

https://justthenews.com/accountability/ ... head-trump

There is also the matter that FBI conducted the raid and review, but at the request of DOJ's chief of counterintelligence and export control. He is lead on the investigation, not some rando FBI agent.

If only this guy had conducted the raid, sure, that's a large concern. But this process has already been before a federal judge, and hundreds of personnel have been involved in the raid and document reviews. If the agency is cleaning up someone too biased to serve in such a sensitive post, that's only a good thing. And the wording 'mastermind' of the affidavit is absurd - whoever wrote that has no clue how filing documents come together for subpoenas and government investigations at this level.
 
afcjets
Posts: 4090
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:57 am

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Here is an interesting development, although I think this is nothing more than an attempt to find a scapegoat for this obvious political stunt...

There is also the matter that FBI conducted the raid and review, but at the request of DOJ's chief of counterintelligence and export control. He is lead on the investigation, not some rando FBI agent.

If only this guy had conducted the raid, sure, that's a large concern. But this process has already been before a federal judge, and hundreds of personnel have been involved in the raid and document reviews. If the agency is cleaning up someone too biased to serve in such a sensitive post, that's only a good thing.


Exactly, which is why I speculated this guy is a scapegoat.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18397
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:02 am

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Here is an interesting development, although I think this is nothing more than an attempt to find a scapegoat for this obvious political stunt...

There is also the matter that FBI conducted the raid and review, but at the request of DOJ's chief of counterintelligence and export control. He is lead on the investigation, not some rando FBI agent.

If only this guy had conducted the raid, sure, that's a large concern. But this process has already been before a federal judge, and hundreds of personnel have been involved in the raid and document reviews. If the agency is cleaning up someone too biased to serve in such a sensitive post, that's only a good thing.


Exactly, which is why I speculated this guy is a scapegoat.


Unlikely, since Senator Grassley's office was already looking into this guy and he was the subject of FBI internal inquiry already confirmed by Director Wray:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/0 ... n-00049922

Things can happen in parallel within complex situations and systems. Not everything is a conspiracy.

At any rate, the MAGA wing of the GOP is making hay of this because it distracts from how much crap was found in Trump's possession, stuff he basically had no security or legal justification to have. And that's what DOJ needs to find out - what the hell did he have all that stuff for?
 
Newark727
Posts: 3146
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:27 am

Surprised it took this long for the gaslighting to start, really.
 
afcjets
Posts: 4090
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:38 am

Newark727 wrote:
Surprised it took this long for the gaslighting to start, really.

As fascinating as this echo chamber section is, it can get exhausting posting here and I don't feel the need to much anymore because more Americans are waking up, IMO.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18397
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:44 am

afcjets wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Surprised it took this long for the gaslighting to start, really.

As fascinating as this echo chamber section is, it can get exhausting posting here and I don't feel the need to much anymore because more Americans are waking up, IMO.


So speaking of echo chambers...are you suggesting the public / DOJ/ etc do *not* need to know why TS/SCI material was still in Trump's possession? And further, the government should just say 'OK, no problem' when they ask for legally required completion of a document transfer process, and team Trump says 'nah, only what we feel like'...that's...OK?
 
Newark727
Posts: 3146
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:01 am

afcjets wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Surprised it took this long for the gaslighting to start, really.

As fascinating as this echo chamber section is, it can get exhausting posting here and I don't feel the need to much anymore because more Americans are waking up, IMO.


Yes, it's odd how few Republicans there are in this thread, isn't it? Maybe the rest of them have grown tired of defending a man who seems determined to abuse their trust?
 
alfa164
Posts: 4157
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:14 am

afcjets wrote:
Exactly, which is why I speculated this guy is a scapegoat.


A scapegoat for what? An FBI action that successfully recovered stolen classified documents, taken by a rogue former president?

What this country needs is more "scapegoats" who are willing to enforce the Rule of Law, no matter who is the offender.


Newark727 wrote:
Surprised it took this long for the gaslighting to start, really.


Fortunately, even some of my fellow Republicans - who have supported Trump over the past four years - have seen that he was nothing but a self-serving, ego-maniacal snake oil salesman, who duped too many ill-informed citizens into believing he was their second coming. Only the truly naive - or truly deranged - minority are backing him now.


afcjets wrote:
As fascinating as this echo chamber section is, it can get exhausting posting here and I don't feel the need to much anymore because more Americans are waking up, IMO.


I can agree that more Americans are waking up... but not in the way you imply...

:roll:

Newark727 wrote:
Yes, it's odd how few Republicans there are in this thread, isn't it? Maybe the rest of them have grown tired of defending a man who seems determined to abuse their trust?


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
 
alfa164
Posts: 4157
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:35 am

Aaron747 wrote:
At any rate, the MAGA wing of the GOP is making hay of this because it distracts from how much crap was found in Trump's possession, stuff he basically had no security or legal justification to have. And that's what DOJ needs to find out - what the hell did he have all that stuff for?


Well, for one thing, there was one classified document labeled "info re: President of France", and Trump seems to have an unnatural interest in - and an insatiable desire to tell others about - Macron's love life:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-b ... ort-2022-8
 
pune
Posts: 1670
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:18 am

The way I see it purely as an outsider is this guy is willing to sell his nation's secrets and it doesn't matter they are national secrets as far as he gets big bucks for them. There is no other defence for him to cling on to those documents. To take an example, if you are the CEO of Boeing or Airbus, could you legally keep any secret stuff of any design of the aircraft after you leave office? If the answer is no there, then it's the same thing here. The guy is so dumb he even admitted in his special master that he had those number of sensitive documents. And now him and his allies are threatening riots if he is indicted. Seems 'men in blue' was just a word to them and nothing more.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 21506
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:54 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Wow, I remember when The Federalist at least professed to care about American institutions...

https://thefederalist.com/2022/08/29/th ... lago-play/


I stopped reading as soon as I saw "deep state".
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2092
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:57 am

afcjets wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Surprised it took this long for the gaslighting to start, really.

As fascinating as this echo chamber section is, it can get exhausting posting here and I don't feel the need to much anymore because more Americans are waking up, IMO.


I think the concern many of us have, is that the facts in this case are very evident. I have posted the court filings from both sides. There is no question whatsoever that Trump had the documents, and that he was resisting giving them back. Which is just another of his unprecedented actions.

Yet rather than considering those facts, there is instead consideration of some obscure theory about a political mastermind at the FBI. Yet his signature or name does not appear on any of the court filings, which are all made with approval at the highest levels of FBI and DoJ. And were approved by a federal judge. The notion that this one guy engineered the whole thing, is ludicrous.

Which is why the thinking and reasoning skills within Trump World just seem to be totally gone. Or degraded beyond all comprehension. All Trump has to do is complain that he's being persecuted, and his followers rush to his defense. Or insist that they will riot in the streets, or at the Capitol. Despite the mountains of evidence against him.

I don't know if perhaps the McCarthy era is no longer taught in schools, but the parallels become stronger every day. A person with a large following makes false claims, which energize the fears of his base. And they will then ignore the obvious truth over the beliefs that he has engendered. It's perplexing and a bit frightening.
Last edited by Avatar2go on Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18397
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:57 am

scbriml wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Wow, I remember when The Federalist at least professed to care about American institutions...

https://thefederalist.com/2022/08/29/th ... lago-play/


I stopped reading as soon as I saw "deep state".


Yeah that jumped out at me too. Instantly looney tune.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 21506
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:00 am

afcjets wrote:
Here is an interesting development, although I think this is nothing more than an attempt to find a scapegoat for this obvious political stunt. Here is a preview:

"FBI agent Tim Thibault was escorted from FBI headquarters on Friday.

He was the mastermind behind the affidavit to raid Mar-a-Lago.

He has longtime connections to the Clintons and the Obamas.

Thibault was the FBI official who was Assistant Agent in Charge (ASAC) in investigating voter fraud in the 2020 election."

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/0 ... ud-failed/


You're seriously quoting The Gateway Pundit? :rotfl:

TGP makes the National Enquirer and Daily Mail look like Pulitzer Prize winning journals.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18397
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:21 am

scbriml wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Here is an interesting development, although I think this is nothing more than an attempt to find a scapegoat for this obvious political stunt. Here is a preview:

"FBI agent Tim Thibault was escorted from FBI headquarters on Friday.

He was the mastermind behind the affidavit to raid Mar-a-Lago.

He has longtime connections to the Clintons and the Obamas.

Thibault was the FBI official who was Assistant Agent in Charge (ASAC) in investigating voter fraud in the 2020 election."

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/0 ... ud-failed/


You're seriously quoting The Gateway Pundit? :rotfl:

TGP makes the National Enquirer and Daily Mail look like Pulitzer Prize winning journals.


It gets even nuttier in prime time, complete with fake emotionalism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g17lU6d0wkQ
 
bgm
Posts: 2549
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:29 pm

afcjets wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Surprised it took this long for the gaslighting to start, really.

As fascinating as this echo chamber section is, it can get exhausting posting here and I don't feel the need to much anymore because more Americans are waking up, IMO.


Ask yourself this question: *Why* did Trump take those documents, and what was his intent? I'll wait...
 
luckyone
Posts: 4700
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:00 pm

bgm wrote:
Ask yourself this question: *Why* did Trump take those documents, and what was his intent? I'll wait...

It's almost like you can see the cognitive dissonance playing out in the post.
 
pune
Posts: 1670
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:23 pm

luckyone wrote:
bgm wrote:
Ask yourself this question: *Why* did Trump take those documents, and what was his intent? I'll wait...

It's almost like you can see the cognitive dissonance playing out in the post.


For me, he has all but admitted that he had the documents when he asked for the special master. He hasn't even responded that why he didn't give back the documents when they were asked 1.5 years back. And even more recently a few months back. And to add to that he had shared he had no more secret documents. The apologists for him have a lot of explaining to do but they will not. They will use any side-show that Mr. Trump and his allies drum up to keep the 'fairy tale' alive. The multiple excuses, oh my god, the biggest one though, he has a 'declassification ray'. How do sane people lap it up is beyond me?
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 16109
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:24 pm

afcjets wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Here is an interesting development, although I think this is nothing more than an attempt to find a scapegoat for this obvious political stunt. Here is a preview:
"FBI agent Tim Thibault was escorted from FBI headquarters on Friday. He was the mastermind behind the affidavit to raid Mar-a-Lago. He has longtime connections to the Clintons and the Obamas. Thibault was the FBI official who was Assistant Agent in Charge (ASAC) in investigating voter fraud in the 2020 election."
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/0 ... ud-failed/


Ah... so the conspiracy theories will begin this way!

:roll:

But you do realize that the FBI found exactly what they said they were looking for: classified and top secret documents, illegally taken to the ex-president's personal playground. You do realize that... don't you?


And yet they still escort the the long time agent assigned to the highest profile cases out of the building. Perhaps what he sought to justify the raid didn't justify the raid after all.



Perhaps he just retired.

Either way, it has no impact on the fact that Donald Trump took sensitive information. Just more gaslighting by right wing media and their followers that hate their own Government
 
Newark727
Posts: 3146
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:28 pm

pune wrote:
They will use any side-show that Mr. Trump and his allies drum up to keep the 'fairy tale' alive. The multiple excuses, oh my god, the biggest one though, he has a 'declassification ray'. How do sane people lap it up is beyond me?


When I posted that in this thread I was joking. I really hope that nobody has tried to argue it in earnest.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 16109
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:33 pm

Newark727 wrote:
pune wrote:
They will use any side-show that Mr. Trump and his allies drum up to keep the 'fairy tale' alive. The multiple excuses, oh my god, the biggest one though, he has a 'declassification ray'. How do sane people lap it up is beyond me?


When I posted that in this thread I was joking. I really hope that nobody has tried to argue it in earnest.


Well if you cross the streams, it closes the door, and classifies them again right?
 
bgm
Posts: 2549
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:40 pm

luckyone wrote:
bgm wrote:
Ask yourself this question: *Why* did Trump take those documents, and what was his intent? I'll wait...

It's almost like you can see the cognitive dissonance playing out in the post.


Indeed. There seems to be a huge disconnect as to what they want Trump to be vs what he actually is. It's a weird, almost cult-like self delusion.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 21506
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:50 pm

bgm wrote:
It's a weird cult of self delusion.


Fixed that for you!
 
cedarjet
Posts: 9129
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:27 pm

I’m a socialist so no love for Trump; but there have been so many “the walls are closing in” moments since 2015 and all of them have turned out to be total nonsense dreamed up by corporate democrats who can’t handle losing to an orange clown. And this will prove to be no different. Rob Reiner and a lot of Rachel Maddow fans just seem to love being humiliated. Enjoy, I guess
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2092
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:38 pm

cedarjet wrote:
I’m a socialist so no love for Trump; but there have been so many “the walls are closing in” moments since 2015 and all of them have turned out to be total nonsense dreamed up by corporate democrats who can’t handle losing to an orange clown. And this will prove to be no different. Rob Reiner and a lot of Rachel Maddow fans just seem to love being humiliated. Enjoy, I guess


Agreed, but the reason is that Trump is always at the outer fringe of legitimate behavior. Meeting with the Russians to see if they had dirt on Hillary. Using US foreign aid as leverage to get dirt on Biden. Trying to influence the investigation into his own actions. Declaring election fraud when there was none. Refusing to concede his election defeat. Sending rioters to the Capital. Keeping classified government documents from the National Archives.

All these things are unprecedented behaviors for a US President, with the possible exception of Nixon with regard to digging up dirt on opponents.

Most of the world is not expecting these behaviors, and would just as soon be rid of them. So not really a surprise that they would be looking for opportunities for that happen. But Trump is not going to exit the stage gracefully. Which is yet another unprecedented behavior for a US President.
 
aristoenigma
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:28 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:17 pm

https://newsinteractive.post-gazette.co ... Graham.jpg

Like an episode of Better Call Saul. Subtitled "Incredible Shrinking Men"

That scag woman got past security six times. With photographic phones.
 
Vintage
Posts: 903
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:48 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:51 pm

I really can't understand a 'socialist' who has a problem with liberals............
I understand the hard core communist view that anything that doesn't come out of the politburo is an enemy, but that's different.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 24972
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:23 pm

Lindsey Graham (R-SC) wants violence if his party's leader is charged

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-sho ... -rcna45260

Violence to gain a political end is one of the signs of fascism. And Republicans are silent over this. I wonder why....
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18397
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:25 pm

seb146 wrote:
Lindsey Graham (R-SC) wants violence if his party's leader is charged

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-sho ... -rcna45260

Violence to gain a political end is one of the signs of fascism. And Republicans are silent over this. I wonder why....


Lindz just has to pipe up now and then to meet his quota. Can’t have that Trump kompromat on him coming out.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4700
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:46 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Lindsey Graham (R-SC) wants violence if his party's leader is charged

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-sho ... -rcna45260

Violence to gain a political end is one of the signs of fascism. And Republicans are silent over this. I wonder why....


Lindz just has to pipe up now and then to meet his quota. Can’t have that Trump kompromat on him coming out.

Lady Graham could preempt that just…come out.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 16001
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:46 am

Avatar2go wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Surprised it took this long for the gaslighting to start, really.

As fascinating as this echo chamber section is, it can get exhausting posting here and I don't feel the need to much anymore because more Americans are waking up, IMO.


I think the concern many of us have, is that the facts in this case are very evident. I have posted the court filings from both sides. There is no question whatsoever that Trump had the documents, and that he was resisting giving them back. Which is just another of his unprecedented actions.

Yet rather than considering those facts, there is instead consideration of some obscure theory about a political mastermind at the FBI. Yet his signature or name does not appear on any of the court filings, which are all made with approval at the highest levels of FBI and DoJ. And were approved by a federal judge. The notion that this one guy engineered the whole thing, is ludicrous.

Which is why the thinking and reasoning skills within Trump World just seem to be totally gone. Or degraded beyond all comprehension. All Trump has to do is complain that he's being persecuted, and his followers rush to his defense. Or insist that they will riot in the streets, or at the Capitol. Despite the mountains of evidence against him.

I don't know if perhaps the McCarthy era is no longer taught in schools, but the parallels become stronger every day. A person with a large following makes false claims, which energize the fears of his base. And they will then ignore the obvious truth over the beliefs that he has engendered. It's perplexing and a bit frightening.


The US has dozens of cults, some of them, as ludicrous as they seem (scientology...) have become significant religions, so it's not that surprising really.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 16001
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:55 am

alfa164 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
At any rate, the MAGA wing of the GOP is making hay of this because it distracts from how much crap was found in Trump's possession, stuff he basically had no security or legal justification to have. And that's what DOJ needs to find out - what the hell did he have all that stuff for?


Well, for one thing, there was one classified document labeled "info re: President of France", and Trump seems to have an unnatural interest in - and an insatiable desire to tell others about - Macron's love life:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-b ... ort-2022-8


That would be very weak "kompromat" though, nobody cares about such things in France, especially if it's done discreetly.

This tidbit is barely reported here, in fact.

If the doc revealed he had a harem of young women he would probably go up in the polls...
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 24972
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:28 am

luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Lindsey Graham (R-SC) wants violence if his party's leader is charged

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-sho ... -rcna45260

Violence to gain a political end is one of the signs of fascism. And Republicans are silent over this. I wonder why....


Lindz just has to pipe up now and then to meet his quota. Can’t have that Trump kompromat on him coming out.

Lady Graham could preempt that just…come out.


My dudes.... no one to the left of Liz Cheney cares about who he does what with consenting adults. He actually could be a force in the new Republican party. He could be the new Mitch McConnell, IMO. If he walks away from MAGA. But, he can't. Because he and his handlers and senior authorities in the party believe, for some reason, it means something, what he does in private. For some reason, he (and those in the MAGA sectors) believe that violence is the only way he and his party can cling to power. They have nothing else. He knows what he does in the bedroom with consenting adults is no one's business. He is playing that part. I don't care. Moderate Republicans don't care. Democrats of all stripes don't care. That is not why I posted this.

He is calling for violence because his party's leader is being cornered. One of the signs of fascism. Not that it will help him if the fascists actually gain power, but stop with the low hanging fruit. No pun intended.
 
aristoenigma
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:28 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:48 am

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -life.html

45 took the Macron files for unclear reasons. The fact that France has Nukes makes any French intelligence especially sensitive. Private life details after 45 left office imho shows malicious intent and Mens Rea. Mens Rea on a platter.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 9129
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:24 am

aristoenigma wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62732836

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 ... lt-vpx.cnn

“Ex-President Donald Trump may have concealed and removed documents during an FBI visit to his property in June, Department of Justice officials say”

In other words, we didn’t find anything so it must be Trump’s fault. Brilliant.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 16001
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:30 am

The guy is a real estate billionaire with properties around the world, private jets, and an army of sycophants at all levels of government. That a single piece of paper was found at Mar-a-Lago of all places (his main residence) is proof enough he's too dumb to be given any power.
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2092
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:38 am

cedarjet wrote:
“Ex-President Donald Trump may have concealed and removed documents during an FBI visit to his property in June, Department of Justice officials say”

In other words, we didn’t find anything so it must be Trump’s fault. Brilliant.


This representation is false. The DoJ filing declared that although the FBI was shown the storage room, they were forbidden to open or inspect any of the boxes, without a warrant. Upon gathering evidence that the boxes likely contained additional presidential records, and that further records were stored in Trump's office, they obtained the warrant.

Upon execution of the warrant, further presidential records were found in those boxes, as well as in the office, and among them were classified records.

Further, Trump's counsel signed a document in June swearing that all presidential documents had been turned over, which was a false statement.
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2092
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:05 am

The DoJ filing effectively dismantles Trump's request for injunctive relief, a special master, and return of the seized materials.

It agrees to the detailed inventory of those materials, and the return of non-evidentiary personal materials, as well as the adjudication of limited materials that may involve attorney-client privelege.

1. Trump has no standing to request a special master, based on the lack of any materials involving a third party. All the records seized were related to Trump alone. There is no attorney-client privelege to protect, apart from a limited subset already identified, for Trump's own counsel.

2. Trump has no standing to invoke executive privilege against the executive branch of government. Executive privilege protects the office and the republic, not the individual.

3. Trump has no standing to declare property rights, since the Presidential Records Act makes clear that records belong to the government, not to him.

4. Trump has no standing to request return of materials based on Fourth Amendment concerns, since the warrant authorized that any box found to contain presidential records, could be seized in it's entirety. This was to preserve evidence of the manner of storage and concealment.

5. Trump's filing is too late to request an injunction, as the FBI review has already been completed.

The filing contains a photo of Top Secret documents lying scattered on the floor of the closet in Trump's office. Also points out that some materials are so highly classified, that the FBI had to find agents with the necessary clearance to review them. And that any special master would also need the highest clearance.

Here is a copy of the filing:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... master.pdf
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18397
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:09 am

cedarjet wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62732836

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 ... lt-vpx.cnn

“Ex-President Donald Trump may have concealed and removed documents during an FBI visit to his property in June, Department of Justice officials say”

In other words, we didn’t find anything so it must be Trump’s fault. Brilliant.


That is a completely inaccurate take on this sequence of events. Reading more about the actual process to date might help.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4700
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:25 pm

seb146 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Lindz just has to pipe up now and then to meet his quota. Can’t have that Trump kompromat on him coming out.

Lady Graham could preempt that just…come out.


My dudes.... no one to the left of Liz Cheney cares about who he does what with consenting adults. He actually could be a force in the new Republican party. He could be the new Mitch McConnell, IMO. If he walks away from MAGA. But, he can't. Because he and his handlers and senior authorities in the party believe, for some reason, it means something, what he does in private. For some reason, he (and those in the MAGA sectors) believe that violence is the only way he and his party can cling to power. They have nothing else. He knows what he does in the bedroom with consenting adults is no one's business. He is playing that part. I don't care. Moderate Republicans don't care. Democrats of all stripes don't care. That is not why I posted this.

He is calling for violence because his party's leader is being cornered. One of the signs of fascism. Not that it will help him if the fascists actually gain power, but stop with the low hanging fruit. No pun intended.

It's not the folks to the left of Liz Cheney that would be the ones to be concerned about.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: alex0easy, Redd and 21 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos