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Aesma
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:50 pm

I found this clip on twitter that illustrates the "Macron dirt" situation well (there are English subtitles) : https://twitter.com/Liv_Agar/status/1564464794291572736
 
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casinterest
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:04 pm

You just have to wonder how people are still supporting Trump.

https://www.wral.com/us-to-respond-to-r ... /20439170/



During that visit, the document says, Trump’s lawyers told investigators that all the records that had come from the White House were stored in one location — a Mar-a-Lago storage room — and that “there were no other records stored in any private office space or other location at the Premises and that all available boxes were searched.”

After that, though, the department, which had subpoenaed video footage for the property, “developed evidence that government records were likely concealed and removed from the Storage Room and that efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government’s investigation.” The filing does not identify the individuals who may have relocated the boxes.

In their August search, agents found classified documents both in the storage room as well as in the former president’s office — including three classified documents found not in boxes, but in office desks.


He lied about what he had, he lied about what he gave back, and the classified documents were not just in boxes, but in office desks in Trump's office. This is AFTER he said he had given the classified documents back.


Any one of us that had done the same would be in jail for espionage, and obstruction.
 
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seb146
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:38 pm

casinterest wrote:
You just have to wonder how people are still supporting Trump.

https://www.wral.com/us-to-respond-to-r ... /20439170/



During that visit, the document says, Trump’s lawyers told investigators that all the records that had come from the White House were stored in one location — a Mar-a-Lago storage room — and that “there were no other records stored in any private office space or other location at the Premises and that all available boxes were searched.”

After that, though, the department, which had subpoenaed video footage for the property, “developed evidence that government records were likely concealed and removed from the Storage Room and that efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government’s investigation.” The filing does not identify the individuals who may have relocated the boxes.

In their August search, agents found classified documents both in the storage room as well as in the former president’s office — including three classified documents found not in boxes, but in office desks.


He lied about what he had, he lied about what he gave back, and the classified documents were not just in boxes, but in office desks in Trump's office. This is AFTER he said he had given the classified documents back.


Any one of us that had done the same would be in jail for espionage, and obstruction.


Yes because the rules only apply to everyone else and not him. Dean Obidallah had a segment on his radio show yesterday using James Comey's investigation of Hillary as the standard for this type of thing. Because three documents were found to be classified in her email chains. But, she did not do it with malice and forethought. She was asked for documents and she complied. She followed the law.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:26 pm

seb146 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
You just have to wonder how people are still supporting Trump.

https://www.wral.com/us-to-respond-to-r ... /20439170/



During that visit, the document says, Trump’s lawyers told investigators that all the records that had come from the White House were stored in one location — a Mar-a-Lago storage room — and that “there were no other records stored in any private office space or other location at the Premises and that all available boxes were searched.”

After that, though, the department, which had subpoenaed video footage for the property, “developed evidence that government records were likely concealed and removed from the Storage Room and that efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government’s investigation.” The filing does not identify the individuals who may have relocated the boxes.

In their August search, agents found classified documents both in the storage room as well as in the former president’s office — including three classified documents found not in boxes, but in office desks.


He lied about what he had, he lied about what he gave back, and the classified documents were not just in boxes, but in office desks in Trump's office. This is AFTER he said he had given the classified documents back.


Any one of us that had done the same would be in jail for espionage, and obstruction.


Yes because the rules only apply to everyone else and not him. Dean Obidallah had a segment on his radio show yesterday using James Comey's investigation of Hillary as the standard for this type of thing. Because three documents were found to be classified in her email chains. But, she did not do it with malice and forethought. She was asked for documents and she complied. She followed the law.



Trump is going to keep looking for his get out of jail free card. His Narcissistic personality won't allow anything else. It will remain to be seen how loyal his supporters are to a man that is clearly abusing the National Trust.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:41 pm

casinterest wrote:
Trump is going to keep looking for his get out of jail free card. His Narcissistic personality won't allow anything else. It will remain to be seen how loyal his supporters are to a man that is clearly abusing the National Trust.


Most of his supporters are doubling-down on the "they'll be riots if Trump's arrested" trope.

And yes, these are the same people who jump up to complain about BLM riots, but hey, the election was stolen. :sarcastic:
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:42 pm

Trump posted this today on social media:

Terrible the way the FBI, during the Raid of Mar-a-Lago, threw documents haphazardly all over the floor (perhaps pretending it was me that did it!), and then started taking pictures of them for the public to see. Thought they wanted them kept Secret? Lucky I Declassified!


https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrum ... 3934541907
 
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casinterest
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:19 pm

scbriml wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Trump is going to keep looking for his get out of jail free card. His Narcissistic personality won't allow anything else. It will remain to be seen how loyal his supporters are to a man that is clearly abusing the National Trust.


Most of his supporters are doubling-down on the "they'll be riots if Trump's arrested" trope.

And yes, these are the same people who jump up to complain about BLM riots, but hey, the election was stolen. :sarcastic:


There is a cognitive dissonance and hero worship going on.
I used to think the GOP had members that knew better. Now I think that they are so brainwashed that they can't even find their own moral clocks on the issue.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:24 pm

casinterest wrote:

There is a cognitive dissonance and hero worship going on.
I used to think the GOP had members that knew better. Now I think that they are so brainwashed that they can't even find their own moral clocks on the issue.


There is a case to be made that Trump's losses against the government actually help him within his base. Each time he claims persecution, and each time the campaign contributions come pouring in.

His strategy may be that none of this will matter if his base puts him in the White House again, because he'll have immunity from prosecution. And if they don't, he can continue to wield political power, which is what he enjoys. His followers would probably permit that even if he was serving time.
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:39 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
There is a case to be made that Trump's losses against the government actually help him within his base. Each time he claims persecution, and each time the campaign contributions come pouring in.

His strategy may be that none of this will matter if his base puts him in the White House again, because he'll have immunity from prosecution. And if they don't, he can continue to wield political power, which is what he enjoys. His followers would probably permit that even if he was serving time.

I see no threat of him becoming president again. Him crying about injustice may 'help' him with his base, but he already had them. It is the people outside of his base that he has to convince, and he's doing nothing to appeal to them. The Justice Dept's claim of him impeding an investigation and hiding documents that he claimed to not possess makes all the sense in the world and will have an effect on actual conservatives IMO. And of course he's not making any headway with liberals.

He's done nothing to improve his standing with voters since he lost the last election.
 
victrola
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:06 pm

afcjets wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Here is an interesting development, although I think this is nothing more than an attempt to find a scapegoat for this obvious political stunt. Here is a preview:
"FBI agent Tim Thibault was escorted from FBI headquarters on Friday. He was the mastermind behind the affidavit to raid Mar-a-Lago. He has longtime connections to the Clintons and the Obamas. Thibault was the FBI official who was Assistant Agent in Charge (ASAC) in investigating voter fraud in the 2020 election."
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/0 ... ud-failed/


Ah... so the conspiracy theories will begin this way!

:roll:

But you do realize that the FBI found exactly what they said they were looking for: classified and top secret documents, illegally taken to the ex-president's personal playground. You do realize that... don't you?


And yet they still escort the the long time agent assigned to the highest profile cases out of the building. Perhaps what he sought to justify the raid didn't justify the raid after all.


Perhaps this justifies the raid: (No, I'm not talking about the Time Magazine cover):

https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVFT.nboI7sA ... s=2&qlt=90
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:16 pm

The raid has already been justified by virtue of the inventory of the recovered items.
It has been further justified by the substantial allegation that Trump intentionally withheld and hid these documents from the government.
 
Newark727
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:40 pm

Aesma wrote:
That would be very weak "kompromat" though, nobody cares about such things in France, especially if it's done discreetly.

This tidbit is barely reported here, in fact.

If the doc revealed he had a harem of young women he would probably go up in the polls...


Obviously the dirt is that Macron is having no extramarital affairs whatsoever. Scandalous! :P
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:57 pm

Vintage wrote:
I see no threat of him becoming president again. Him crying about injustice may 'help' him with his base, but he already had them. It is the people outside of his base that he has to convince, and he's doing nothing to appeal to them. The Justice Dept's claim of him impeding an investigation and hiding documents that he claimed to not possess makes all the sense in the world and will have an effect on actual conservatives IMO. And of course he's not making any headway with liberals.

He's done nothing to improve his standing with voters since he lost the last election.


Totally agree with this analysis, but it seems not to have mattered to Republicans. Polls still show Trump as their frontrunner for 2024, by a large margin. He's looking at that and feeling confident enough to thumb his nose at the DoJ and FBI.

Far from dodging his legal problems, he's trumpeting them on social media. He knows the value of the fear and animosity that he can stir up. His basic message to them is, this is what they will do to you too, unless you help me stop them.

I think this has grown beyond just some eccentric crackpot ex-President. He wants to divide the country, as that conflict helps him personally to retain power. That's what happened on Jan 6, but important to understand it never really stopped. It's still in motion today.

Makes me worry about where it ends. It should have stopped multiple times now, in a sane world, but it just keeps rolling along.
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Aug 31, 2022 11:28 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Totally agree with this analysis, but it seems not to have mattered to Republicans. Polls still show Trump as their frontrunner for 2024, by a large margin. He's looking at that and feeling confident enough to thumb his nose at the DoJ and FBI.

Far from dodging his legal problems, he's trumpeting them on social media. He knows the value of the fear and animosity that he can stir up. His basic message to them is, this is what they will do to you too, unless you help me stop them.

I think this has grown beyond just some eccentric crackpot ex-President. He wants to divide the country, as that conflict helps him personally to retain power. That's what happened on Jan 6, but important to understand it never really stopped. It's still in motion today.

Makes me worry about where it ends. It should have stopped multiple times now, in a sane world, but it just keeps rolling along.

While he has no hold on the national scene, he has the Republicans by the short hairs. They cannot go against him because his base is at least 40% of the Republican electorate so even if they did come up with a popular candidate to run against him, that candidate would probably lose the nomination and if that magical candidate did win the nomination, there would be no chance of him or her winning the general because the base would turn against the Republican party.

So they have no choice but to support Trump; it's him or nothing.
 
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seb146
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:41 am

casinterest wrote:
seb146 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
You just have to wonder how people are still supporting Trump.

https://www.wral.com/us-to-respond-to-r ... /20439170/





He lied about what he had, he lied about what he gave back, and the classified documents were not just in boxes, but in office desks in Trump's office. This is AFTER he said he had given the classified documents back.


Any one of us that had done the same would be in jail for espionage, and obstruction.


Yes because the rules only apply to everyone else and not him. Dean Obidallah had a segment on his radio show yesterday using James Comey's investigation of Hillary as the standard for this type of thing. Because three documents were found to be classified in her email chains. But, she did not do it with malice and forethought. She was asked for documents and she complied. She followed the law.



Trump is going to keep looking for his get out of jail free card. His Narcissistic personality won't allow anything else. It will remain to be seen how loyal his supporters are to a man that is clearly abusing the National Trust.


They are ready to take up arms against their fellow Americans. See: January 6.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:45 am

The Trump legal team’s response to DOJ has been posted. It is being roundly laughed at by lawyers up and down the blogosphere and rightly so. Someone who passed the bar wrote sentences like this?

“ This argument by the Government is premature and deeply flawed, as more described in more detail below.”

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 58.0_1.pdf
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:47 am

seb146 wrote:
Trump is going to keep looking for his get out of jail free card. His Narcissistic personality won't allow anything else. It will remain to be seen how loyal his supporters are to a man that is clearly abusing the National Trust.

They are ready to take up arms against their fellow Americans. See: January 6.

If any of them try to follow through on that they will lose big time.
Last edited by Vintage on Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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seb146
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:49 am

victrola wrote:
afcjets wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

Ah... so the conspiracy theories will begin this way!

:roll:

But you do realize that the FBI found exactly what they said they were looking for: classified and top secret documents, illegally taken to the ex-president's personal playground. You do realize that... don't you?


And yet they still escort the the long time agent assigned to the highest profile cases out of the building. Perhaps what he sought to justify the raid didn't justify the raid after all.


Perhaps this justifies the raid: (No, I'm not talking about the Time Magazine cover):

https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVFT.nboI7sA ... s=2&qlt=90


I don't think he understands what goes into declassifying documents. It can only be done while a president is in office and it has to go through a chain of authorization. If he had paid attention, he would know that.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/14/us/p ... ments.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-classified-records/
 
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seb146
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:55 am

Vintage wrote:
seb146 wrote:

They are ready to take up arms against their fellow Americans. See: January 6.

If any of them try to follow through on that they will lose big time.


They don't care. They already have been indoctrinated to believe they are the chosen ones. They are the true patriots. After decades of listening to how they are silenced and "wokeness" and CRT and migrant caravans keep them oppressed, they believe they and only they can save the republic and restore the republic to (what they believe is) it's former glory. With violence.
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 1:00 am

seb146 wrote:
They don't care. They already have been indoctrinated to believe they are the chosen ones. They are the true patriots. After decades of listening to how they are silenced and "wokeness" and CRT and migrant caravans keep them oppressed, they believe they and only they can save the republic and restore the republic to (what they believe is) it's former glory. With violence.

I think that's a very small subset of the Trumpsters. Most of them have jobs and wives, they'll just buy another six pack and watch it on TV.
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 1:41 am

 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:05 am

Aaron747 wrote:
The Trump legal team’s response to DOJ has been posted. It is being roundly laughed at by lawyers up and down the blogosphere and rightly so.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 58.0_1.pdf


This filing has returned to the ranting and bombastic language of the first motion:

1. Trump again asserts executive privilege, and claims the Biden administration is acting politically in declining to enforce it on his behalf. As well as privileged counsel.

2. Trump claims that the Presidential Records Act contains no language for enforcement or search and seizure powers, and that DoJ is seeking to criminalize it's provisions.

3. Trump claims that the National Archives has conspired with the DoJ in the criminalization, instead of resolving the issue within the Act's provisions.

4. Trump claims his standing to request the Special Master, resides not only in his rights to privilege, but in his right to privacy for materials within his premises.

5. Trump claims that DoJ solicited an intelligence classification review as a false pretext for urgency in their investigation.

6. Trump claims the FBI scattered documents on the floor as a gratuitous photo op for dramatic effect.

7. Trump claims that the FBI Privilege Review team only inspected documents from his office, but not the storeroom, and thus their review is deficient (makes no mention of the FBi post-processing filter team).

For the duties of Special Master, Trump requests that the master submit to his counsel, all documents for determination and assignment of privilege, and that this occur ex-parte. Documents deemed privileged will be retained by Trump, with the master providing a report to the court. Documents deemed not privileged, will be released to the DoJ. Further, the master should have ultimate authority to rule on privilege in any dispute.
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:36 am

aristoenigma wrote:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/justice-department-trump-1.6567685
This will not end well.

I like the way its going so far.

Avatar2go wrote:
This filing has returned to the ranting and bombastic language of the first motion..................

I think Trump is between a rock and a hard spot.
 
marcelh
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:16 am

Vintage wrote:
seb146 wrote:
They don't care. They already have been indoctrinated to believe they are the chosen ones. They are the true patriots. After decades of listening to how they are silenced and "wokeness" and CRT and migrant caravans keep them oppressed, they believe they and only they can save the republic and restore the republic to (what they believe is) it's former glory. With violence.

I think that's a very small subset of the Trumpsters. Most of them have jobs and wives, they'll just buy another six pack and watch it on TV.


That very small subset was enough to storm the Capitol. Also, a significant part of the Republicans won’t be happy with Trump, but will vote for him “because he is one of them”.
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:53 am

marcelh wrote:
That very small subset was enough to storm the Capitol. Also, a significant part of the Republicans won’t be happy with Trump, but will vote for him “because he is one of them”.

I believe I stated the reason they'll vote for him in post #414.

As far as I'm concerned, bring it on. We'll let the National guard deal with it, I'm still pissed about Kent State; let's even it up a bit.
Let the NG plink on some rednecks for a change.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 5:07 am

cedarjet wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62732836

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 ... lt-vpx.cnn

“Ex-President Donald Trump may have concealed and removed documents during an FBI visit to his property in June, Department of Justice officials say”

In other words, we didn’t find anything so it must be Trump’s fault. Brilliant.


The word is "visit", not "search". So, that ended with "are those all the documents?", "yes". Repeated under oath.

During the search it turned out that the "yes" only covered 1/3 of the classified documents he had. And for documents found in his desk the whole "oh, i didn´t know they where there" kinda falls apart.

best regards
Thomas
 
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scbriml
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:04 am

Aaron747 wrote:
The Trump legal team’s response to DOJ has been posted. It is being roundly laughed at by lawyers up and down the blogosphere and rightly so. Someone who passed the bar wrote sentences like this?

“ This argument by the Government is premature and deeply flawed, as more described in more detail below.”

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 58.0_1.pdf


Only the best people! :rotfl:
 
JJJ
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:04 am

Avatar2go wrote:
6. Trump claims the FBI scattered documents on the floor as a gratuitous photo op for dramatic effect.


So since he can't deny the documents were in possession the problem is they put them on the floor for a picture?

Doesn't he have counsel with a spine that tells him it's time to stop digging?
 
hh65man
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 9:32 am

This man had a point. Me thinks I’ll pull up a hammock and wait for that explanation too, though I won’t be holding my breath.

https://youtu.be/eDyqvJlOOYM
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:18 am

hh65man wrote:
This man had a point. Me thinks I’ll pull up a hammock and wait for that explanation too, though I won’t be holding my breath.

https://youtu.be/eDyqvJlOOYM


Super articulate, 100% on-point. And very good job with the devil’s advocate part too.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:37 am

Aaron747 wrote:
hh65man wrote:
This man had a point. Me thinks I’ll pull up a hammock and wait for that explanation too, though I won’t be holding my breath.

https://youtu.be/eDyqvJlOOYM


Super articulate, 100% on-point. And very good job with the devil’s advocate part too.


The only issue I have with analyses like these is that they basically assume Trump is functioning as a grown-ass man with the capability to apply logic and reasoning. The sad reality is he's emotionally closer to a spoilt toddler.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:56 pm

hh65man wrote:
This man had a point. Me thinks I’ll pull up a hammock and wait for that explanation too, though I won’t be holding my breath.

https://youtu.be/eDyqvJlOOYM


Beau has had several good analyses of the Jan 6 events as well. His videos give me some hope that there are people out there thinking through all this, and not just blindly accepting the crap that Trump puts out.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 1:08 pm

scbriml wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
The Trump legal team’s response to DOJ has been posted. It is being roundly laughed at by lawyers up and down the blogosphere and rightly so. Someone who passed the bar wrote sentences like this?

“ This argument by the Government is premature and deeply flawed, as more described in more detail below.”

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 58.0_1.pdf


Only the best people! :rotfl:


Trump is running out of options with regard to counsel. The lawyers who are willing to follow his wishes, end up incriminating themselves. Christina Bobb is the latest casualty. Once they get into their own trouble on his behalf, he dumps them.

Trump hired a new Florida attorney to represent him in court today. I wonder how much that guy had to do with the latest brief, as his name is not on it.

There is some desperation afoot now. One can only hope that Judge Cannon will recognize it. But she may claim "unprecedented circumstances" and give him what he wants, even though there is no legal basis to do so. If that happens, the DoJ may appeal.

Also if that happens, I can't see DoJ accepting the special master huddling with Trump to determine privilege. That would surely result in an extended legal battle over every decision.

At some point, a judge has to tell Trump "nope". I hope it will be today, but we'll see.
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 1:35 pm

The arguments Trump's legal team make no sense, I don't see how they can prevail.

Reuters tells us that Trump's lawyers said:
"Simply put, the notion that Presidential records would contain sensitive information should have never been cause for alarm,"


That blatantly ignores the inconvenient fact that the papers included Top Secret need to know material, as well as personal information about the head of an European government. It's like they're asking the judge to play 'let's pretend' with them.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 1:58 pm

The basic tenet of the Trump position is that he retains some aspects of Presidential powers, including executive privilege, ability to have declassified anything taken in the move to Mar-a-Lago, and retention of Presidential records, all at his discretion.

Although the DoJ sought to establish probable cause for the warrant based only on the last retention issue, the first two are central to the arguments of both sides.

Hence team Trump is trying to defuse the classification issue, by claiming that if Trump's right to the documents is accepted, along with his right to declassify, then the presence of declassified documents is to be expected.

They have also yielded very slightly on the central retention issue utilized to establish probable cause. They now claim that Trump was working toward return of the documents to the National Archives, but it fell within his discretion to negotiate the return, as a matter of privilege.

The judge should be able to dismiss the retention claim, which disputes the Presidential Records Act. And dismiss the claim to executive privilege, which is clearly vested by long precedent and established case law, in the current executive.

With those two pillars gone, the declassification pillar cannot stand on its own. So we will see if this is what happens today.
 
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seb146
Posts: 24955
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:28 pm

Vintage wrote:
The arguments Trump's legal team make no sense, I don't see how they can prevail.

Reuters tells us that Trump's lawyers said:
"Simply put, the notion that Presidential records would contain sensitive information should have never been cause for alarm,"


That blatantly ignores the inconvenient fact that the papers included Top Secret need to know material, as well as personal information about the head of an European government. It's like they're asking the judge to play 'let's pretend' with them.


Guess who appointed the judge who will hand down the ruling today? She will not recuse herself. She should, but she won't. They keep screaming how this "raid" is political but they will claim victory when this ruling comes down on his side. Which is political.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:44 pm

seb146 wrote:

Guess who appointed the judge who will hand down the ruling today? She will not recuse herself. She should, but she won't. They keep screaming how this "raid" is political but they will claim victory when this ruling comes down on his side. Which is political.


I wouldn't be concerned that Judge Cannon will rule out of political loyalty to Trump. I'd be more concerned that she feels obligated to err on the side of caution, given the extremely high public profile of this case, and afford Trump the maximum opportunity to assert and defend his rights.

While I understand and am somewhat sympathetic to that view, it really just extends the charade, and the public circus. Which is why I said above that at some point, a judge will have to say no. That much is inevitable.

The question is whether it will be Judge Cannon today, or if she will kick the can down the road, to further legal wrangling with probably a different judge. I hope it's the former. She also may find some intermediate compromise, as Judge Reinhart did.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 16089
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:02 pm

scbriml wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
hh65man wrote:
This man had a point. Me thinks I’ll pull up a hammock and wait for that explanation too, though I won’t be holding my breath.

https://youtu.be/eDyqvJlOOYM


Super articulate, 100% on-point. And very good job with the devil’s advocate part too.


The only issue I have with analyses like these is that they basically assume Trump is functioning as a grown-ass man with the capability to apply logic and reasoning. The sad reality is he's emotionally closer to a spoilt toddler.



Well, it is a well thought out piece. I always like Beau's takes on these items, but the critical thinking he applies does require leaps that i don't think MAGA American's can make. They are all wrapped up in idolatry and hate that they never question whether their anger is rightly placed and whether their idol is worthy. The end part of Beau's video makes a leap that i do not believe will ever be made by the Trump supporters about these Documents.


Interestingly enough this piece is the real insight into why Trump wants to be President again immediately. He doesn't want to face the music of the full charges that are forthcoming.
 
ReverseFlow
Posts: 604
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:24 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
The basic tenet of the Trump position is that he retains some aspects of Presidential powers, including executive privilege, ability to have declassified anything taken in the move to Mar-a-Lago, and retention of Presidential records, all at his discretion.

Although the DoJ sought to establish probable cause for the warrant based only on the last retention issue, the first two are central to the arguments of both sides.

Hence team Trump is trying to defuse the classification issue, by claiming that if Trump's right to the documents is accepted, along with his right to declassify, then the presence of declassified documents is to be expected.

They have also yielded very slightly on the central retention issue utilized to establish probable cause. They now claim that Trump was working toward return of the documents to the National Archives, but it fell within his discretion to negotiate the return, as a matter of privilege.

The judge should be able to dismiss the retention claim, which disputes the Presidential Records Act. And dismiss the claim to executive privilege, which is clearly vested by long precedent and established case law, in the current executive.

With those two pillars gone, the declassification pillar cannot stand on its own. So we will see if this is what happens today.
Well if you see some of Jordan Kleppers videos with Trump supporters, they think he is still in charge in the background (love their faces when they get asked if the Afghanistan exit fiasco was then also Trumps fault if he was in charge).

And as Trump thinks he won the election - he must be President still and therefore still have Presidential powers...

It's like his head would explode if he's actually admit/realise he didn't 'win big' for a change.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:39 pm

ReverseFlow wrote:
And as Trump thinks he won the election - he must be President still and therefore still have Presidential powers...


Exactly!!! This is the root cause of the entire fiasco. Trump still believes he is the rightful President, in fact just this week he posted that claim on social media.

This is the fallacy that the court needs to lay to rest, once and for all. Trump is not entitled to special treatment, by virtue of his false claim to power.

To extend this delusion is actually cruel, both to Trump, his supporters, and the rest of the nation. No one benefits from that view, except Trump personally, and then only in his delusional state. In any sense of reality, there's no benefit at all, to anyone.
Last edited by Avatar2go on Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
afcjets
Posts: 4090
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:48 pm

Newark727 wrote:
RINO Graham... good friggin' lord.


He's all talk and no action, as he's proven time and time again. I personally think he's compromised.
 
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casinterest
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Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 5:01 pm

One has to wonder what is in all those documents, and why the Attorney -Client ones are so important to Trump? Especially since so many of his Attorneys are under investigation for Jan 6.
 
luckyone
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:14 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Trump posted this today on social media:

Terrible the way the FBI, during the Raid of Mar-a-Lago, threw documents haphazardly all over the floor (perhaps pretending it was me that did it!), and then started taking pictures of them for the public to see. Thought they wanted them kept Secret? Lucky I Declassified!


https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrum ... 3934541907

Translation: "When I inappropriately retain documents, I don't throw them on the floor."
 
aristoenigma
Posts: 362
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:21 pm

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 ... -politics/

My Cousin Spinny the remake ? No offense to Joe Pesci
 
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casinterest
Posts: 16089
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:23 pm

aristoenigma wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/09/01/trump-attorney-alina-habba-office-guests-newday-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/

My Cousin Spinny the remake ? No offense to Joe Pesci



How many guests with Russian Accents were in that room ?
 
Vintage
Posts: 886
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:48 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:45 pm

Judge Cannon stalls, she refuses to make a ruling on Trump's requests.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-jus ... 022-09-01/
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:51 pm

The hearing by Judge Cannon ended today without a ruling. The judge said she would take the matter under advisement and issue a written ruling at a future date.

Trump attorneys characterized the issue as being equivalent to "an overdue library book", and claimed the the appointment of a special master would "lower the temperature", and "restore order" to the investigation.

They did not seem to make a cogent legal argument for any of their positions. Whereas the DoJ stuck to their briefing points that Trump does not have standing based on either executive privilege or return of Presidential records.

Judge Cannon asked what was the harm in having a special master, and asked the DoJ if an exception to permit their investigation to continue, pausing only the criminal component until review by the special master, would satisfy them. That somewhat aligns with my earlier analysis that she is looking for the most cautious route forward.

The downside of that, as I mentioned, is that it allows the delusion to continue, and for Trump to further incite his followers, as he did again today on social media. He tells the court that he wants the special master to lower the temperature, but in the meantime he is stoking the furnace.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-jus ... 022-09-01/
 
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casinterest
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:23 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
The hearing by Judge Cannon ended today without a ruling. The judge said she would take the matter under advisement and issue a written ruling at a future date.

Trump attorneys characterized the issue as being equivalent to "an overdue library book", and claimed the the appointment of a special master would "lower the temperature", and "restore order" to the investigation.

They did not seem to make a cogent legal argument for any of their positions. Whereas the DoJ stuck to their briefing points that Trump does not have standing based on either executive privilege or return of Presidential records.

Judge Cannon asked what was the harm in having a special master, and asked the DoJ if an exception to permit their investigation to continue, pausing only the criminal component until review by the special master, would satisfy them. That somewhat aligns with my earlier analysis that she is looking for the most cautious route forward.

The downside of that, as I mentioned, is that it allows the delusion to continue, and for Trump to further incite his followers, as he did again today on social media. He tells the court that he wants the special master to lower the temperature, but in the meantime he is stoking the furnace.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-jus ... 022-09-01/




Trump's team is really doubling down on this :" he declassified them " argument

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... off-ruling

Not only thatm, they are attempting to blame the DOJ for their own lack of action

Another Trump lawyer, James Trusty, criticized the government for allowing the search warrant for the former president’s home to be unsealed, even though Trump’s lawyers didn’t object to the unsealing at the time and Trump and his allies were calling for the document to be made public. The warrant revealed the DOJ was investigating significant potential crimes that implicated national security. Trusty said the unsealing was an “extraordinary moment” and referred to it as “completely unfettered conduct” by the DOJ.

It is akin to letting someone into your house to take your fridege, and then blame them for taking the fridge.
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2064
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:31 pm

casinterest wrote:

Trump's team is really doubling down on this :" he declassified them " argument

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... off-ruling

Not only that, they are attempting to blame the DOJ for their own lack of action

Another Trump lawyer, James Trusty, criticized the government for allowing the search warrant for the former president’s home to be unsealed, even though Trump’s lawyers didn’t object to the unsealing at the time and Trump and his allies were calling for the document to be made public. The warrant revealed the DOJ was investigating significant potential crimes that implicated national security. Trusty said the unsealing was an “extraordinary moment” and referred to it as “completely unfettered conduct” by the DOJ.

It is akin to letting someone into your house to take your fridge, and then blame them for taking the fridge.


It does really seem like the DoJ arguments are meant to address the legal issues before the court, while the Trump arguments are more similar to a PR campaign, aimed at the general public rather than the court.

The result is that the Trump arguments contain contradictory positions. It's difficult to see how the Court could fail to identify those.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mar-a-l ... ter-2022-8
Last edited by Avatar2go on Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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casinterest
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Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:36 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Trump's team is really doubling down on this :" he declassified them " argument

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... off-ruling

Not only that, they are attempting to blame the DOJ for their own lack of action

Another Trump lawyer, James Trusty, criticized the government for allowing the search warrant for the former president’s home to be unsealed, even though Trump’s lawyers didn’t object to the unsealing at the time and Trump and his allies were calling for the document to be made public. The warrant revealed the DOJ was investigating significant potential crimes that implicated national security. Trusty said the unsealing was an “extraordinary moment” and referred to it as “completely unfettered conduct” by the DOJ.

It is akin to letting someone into your house to take your fridge, and then blame them for taking the fridge.


It does really seem like the DoJ arguments are meant to address the legal issues before the court, while the Trump arguments are more similar to a PR campaign, aimed at the general public rather than the court.

The result is that the Trump arguments contain contradictory positions. It's difficult to see how the Court could fail to identify those.


The Judge is in a crappy political position. She postured hard on the right, and now she is faced with putting her appointee in the firing ring for unethical behavior, or succumbing to it herself.

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