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ACDC8
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:42 pm

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but enjoy :biggrin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6hxYoiGeRI
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:47 pm

casinterest wrote:

The Judge is in a crappy political position. She postured hard on the right, and now she is faced with putting her appointee in the firing ring for unethical behavior, or succumbing to it herself.


Totally agreed on that. It mirrors the position of the entire Republican party right now. They are in bed with the devil, and can't get out without personal loss.

In that situation, it really comes down to backbone. Cheney and Kinzinger have shown they have a spine, as have many of the Republican state officials, and both state and federal civil servants. But at the higher visibility federal elected level, very few have. So we can only hope that Judge Cannon finds the strength within herself to resist the pressure and rule based on the law, as she is sworn to do.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 9:12 pm

Here is a good summary of the arguments made today:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/0 ... t-00054521
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 9:44 pm

New legal filings paint Trump as a flailing liar surrounded by lackeys
Lloyd Green
 
alfa164
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 01, 2022 9:48 pm

aristoenigma wrote:
New legal filings paint Trump as a flailing liar surrounded by lackeys
Lloyd Green

The should be news to nobody...

:roll:
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1634
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:13 am

Fox News had Rove on today where he talked at length about the challenges facing Trump and was critical of MAGA arguments and positioning. They allowed him to speak at length. This isn’t the first time in recent days where FOX has profiled friendly right-wing messaging for MAGA consumers that was critical of Trump in relation to the current situation.

Trump is losing key support and his media partners are channeling and building new narratives for consumption by MAGA as they navigate the ‘emperor has no clothes’ period and try to save face for the movement/MAGA believe system. Pay attention for profiling of DeSantis … a new messanger. They must channel the anger and animosity of MAGA inspired voters and MAGA beholden GOPers while distancing themselves from the damaged and diminished founding leader and shifting away from Trumpism.

I fear this could be the most dangerous time for an uptick in far right terrorism and disruption as the ongoing fall and diminshment of Trump causes conflict and challenge for the MAGA movement. The floor is falling out from under them but they are being told it is reinforced… and they may start to swing really really hard.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:29 am

In Biden's speech tonight, he addressed the dangers of the MAGA movement. There were MAGA people off to the side with bullhorns trying to disrupt the speech.

At one point he addressed them as an example of the problem, saying they had a right to dissent and protest and speak, but there are more productive and less rude ways of doing so. It was a good point, they are pretty far removed from civil discourse.

I'm glad Fox let Rove speak about Trump, the last time they cut him off pretty quickly.
 
skyservice_330
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:39 am

Avatar2go wrote:
I'm glad Fox let Rove speak about Trump, the last time they cut him off pretty quickly.


Me too. In the MAGA era, messengers such as Rove (notwithstanding his own past and/or motivations) are important in the effort to pushback against Trumpian misinformation. That said, guards cannot be let down and DeSantis is positioning himself as the torchbearer for MAGA and seems to have skill for harnessing their anger and authorifriendly tendencies.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:55 am

Yes, in the McCarthy era, he was discredited and no one really rose to take his place, so the movement fell apart. Similarly Nixon voluntarily left the stage and no one really objected that it wasn't best for the nation.

With MAGA, if someone like DeSantis rises to take the reins, and does not publicly discredit Trump, but honors him instead, then the movement will continue with a new leader.

But if Trump goes after DeSantis as the heir apparent, then they could get into a King Kong vs Godzilla battle, which destroys Tokyo, and splits the MAGA movement.

Trump is basically a cult of personality, so I think many of his followers would stick with him to the bitter end.
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:57 am

skyservice_330 wrote:
I fear this could be the most dangerous time for an uptick in far right terrorism and disruption as the ongoing fall and diminshment of Trump causes conflict and challenge for the MAGA movement. The floor is falling out from under them but they are being told it is reinforced… and they may start to swing really really hard.

Today's sentencing of Thomas Webster to ten years in prison has come at the right time to temper that kind of response from the MAGA crowd. On the morning of January 6th the Trump mob genuinely thought they were about to assist Trump in taking over the government. I bet some of them had fantasies of assuming government jobs in their near future.

Events of later that day put all that to an end. Since then the prosecutions of hundreds of the rioters has shown that not only is there not going to be a government overthrow, but that the legal system continues to have the same teeth it always had.

There will be a lot of grumbling and nasty talk, but the number of people willing to put their future on the line for their bullshit ideas will be slim to none.
 
marcelh
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:18 am

Vintage wrote:
skyservice_330 wrote:
I fear this could be the most dangerous time for an uptick in far right terrorism and disruption as the ongoing fall and diminshment of Trump causes conflict and challenge for the MAGA movement. The floor is falling out from under them but they are being told it is reinforced… and they may start to swing really really hard.

Today's sentencing of Thomas Webster to ten years in prison has come at the right time to temper that kind of response from the MAGA crowd. On the morning of January 6th the Trump mob genuinely thought they were about to assist Trump in taking over the government. I bet some of them had fantasies of assuming government jobs in their near future.

Events of later that day put all that to an end. Since then the prosecutions of hundreds of the rioters has shown that not only is there not going to be a government overthrow, but that the legal system continues to have the same teeth it always had.

There will be a lot of grumbling and nasty talk, but the number of people willing to put their future on the line for their bullshit ideas will be slim to none.


Watching how several states have changed some laws/regulations in order to “optimize” election results, it looks the smarter ones have learnt there is another way to regain power and change it into “DINO” (Democracy In Name Only).
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:11 am

Avatar2go wrote:
Yes, in the McCarthy era, he was discredited and no one really rose to take his place, so the movement fell apart. Similarly Nixon voluntarily left the stage and no one really objected that it wasn't best for the nation.

With MAGA, if someone like DeSantis rises to take the reins, and does not publicly discredit Trump, but honors him instead, then the movement will continue with a new leader.

But if Trump goes after DeSantis as the heir apparent, then they could get into a King Kong vs Godzilla battle, which destroys Tokyo, and splits the MAGA movement.

Trump is basically a cult of personality, so I think many of his followers would stick with him to the bitter end.


MAGA is Trump's creation. As you say, it was born out of his immense ego for the only purpose of serving him. It is not really a political or ideological movement that he wishes would become perennial nor does he believe it should survive him. MAGA is Trump and Trump is MAGA.

MAGA will not be transferred to anyone else because as long as he lives, Trump will not let it happen.
If DeSantis or any of the other Trump wannabes out there want to steal the MAGA crowd and the rest of the deplorables to complete head on with Trump, they'll have to form their own hate-filled populist cults and compete for popularity against him.
The media may try to influence the base towards one guru or another but it can ultimately only divide it further.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:29 pm

skyservice_330 wrote:
Fox News had Rove on today where he talked at length about the challenges facing Trump and was critical of MAGA arguments and positioning. They allowed him to speak at length. This isn’t the first time in recent days where FOX has profiled friendly right-wing messaging for MAGA consumers that was critical of Trump in relation to the current situation.

Trump is losing key support and his media partners are channeling and building new narratives for consumption by MAGA as they navigate the ‘emperor has no clothes’ period and try to save face for the movement/MAGA believe system. Pay attention for profiling of DeSantis … a new messanger. They must channel the anger and animosity of MAGA inspired voters and MAGA beholden GOPers while distancing themselves from the damaged and diminished founding leader and shifting away from Trumpism.

I fear this could be the most dangerous time for an uptick in far right terrorism and disruption as the ongoing fall and diminshment of Trump causes conflict and challenge for the MAGA movement. The floor is falling out from under them but they are being told it is reinforced… and they may start to swing really really hard.


I follow UK politics and the right wing rags there are very good at playing both sides, defending their champions but criticizing them from time to time, until they stab them in the back. For FOX it's more difficult, maybe because they have more "true believers".
 
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casinterest
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 2:38 pm

Once again Trump thought he was immune to the laws,

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-didnt-trus ... 41056.html

Traveling with Top Secret Documents, avoiding the burn bags, and intimidating officials to break the secrecy requirements for briefings.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 2:59 pm

Other subpoena lawsuit news this week, Lindsey Graham must testify in the Georgia election interference case, except for questions related to his legislative duties.

Brian Kemp must also testify, although he won a deferral until after the election. Trump lawyer Ken Chesebro must testify, and John Eastman did not oppose testimony, but pled the 5th to all questions. Numerous other officials are still fighting their subpoenas in court, for that case.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/0 ... e-00054527

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/29/politics ... index.html
 
skyservice_330
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:28 pm

Some LOL Courtesy of the Twitter machine …

‘For a group that prides themselves on saying ‘f*ck your feelings!’ to those they don’t agree with, conservatives and GOPers sure are butt hurt about their feelings because of mean words in the speech.’

And …

‘Biden spoke out against fascism and GOPers are treating it as a personal attack’

:rotfl:

But on a serious note -

Given the events of Jan 6. and the staining of the Presidency that the Trump document scandal is generating, the speech was needed - to speak in favour of the rule of law, in defence of doing the right thing, and being honorable and ethical. That is the role of a President and it was good to see Biden do it. That said, it is unfortunate he had to do it in the first place - but the actions of Trump and the MAGA movement called for it.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:29 pm

The BBC is reporting that a court has released a detailed inventory of what was seized by the FBI from Mar A Lago.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62771613
Among the items recovered after the unprecedented 8 August search of Mar-a-Lago were:

3 documents marked confidential
17 documents marked secret
7 documents marked top secret
43 empty folders with classified banners
28 empty folders labelled "Return to staff secretary/military aide"
...
The more detailed inventory of the classified material seized by the justice department in its Mar-a-Lago search doesn't shed much light on what exactly was in the documents.

What it does reveal, however, is where they were located. Of the 18 Top Secret documents listed, seven were in Donald Trump's office, not in the estate's storage area, as were 17 of the 54 Secret documents. This suggests that these highly classified items were not just gathering dust in boxes in the bowels of Mar-a-Lago, they were at the former president's fingertips - and that he may have had them accessible for a reason.
 
luckyone
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:40 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Yes, in the McCarthy era, he was discredited and no one really rose to take his place, so the movement fell apart. Similarly Nixon voluntarily left the stage and no one really objected that it wasn't best for the nation.

With MAGA, if someone like DeSantis rises to take the reins, and does not publicly discredit Trump, but honors him instead, then the movement will continue with a new leader.

But if Trump goes after DeSantis as the heir apparent, then they could get into a King Kong vs Godzilla battle, which destroys Tokyo, and splits the MAGA movement.

Trump is basically a cult of personality, so I think many of his followers would stick with him to the bitter end.

I'd be curious how quietly DeSantis is preparing himself to be stabbed in the back by Trump. You don't make the moves DeSantis is making without bigger aspirations than Tallahassee. I'm sure as shrewd as DeSantis can be politically he knows Trump will turn on him at the drop of a MAGA hat.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:07 pm

Here is a link to the Mar-a-Lago seized document inventory.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... 3391_1.pdf
 
Virtual737
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:59 pm

scbriml wrote:
The BBC is reporting that a court has released a detailed inventory of what was seized by the FBI from Mar A Lago.


100% confirms the raid was politically motivated then ;)
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:15 pm

luckyone wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
Yes, in the McCarthy era, he was discredited and no one really rose to take his place, so the movement fell apart. Similarly Nixon voluntarily left the stage and no one really objected that it wasn't best for the nation.

With MAGA, if someone like DeSantis rises to take the reins, and does not publicly discredit Trump, but honors him instead, then the movement will continue with a new leader.

But if Trump goes after DeSantis as the heir apparent, then they could get into a King Kong vs Godzilla battle, which destroys Tokyo, and splits the MAGA movement.

Trump is basically a cult of personality, so I think many of his followers would stick with him to the bitter end.

I'd be curious how quietly DeSantis is preparing himself to be stabbed in the back by Trump. You don't make the moves DeSantis is making without bigger aspirations than Tallahassee. I'm sure as shrewd as DeSantis can be politically he knows Trump will turn on him at the drop of a MAGA hat.

Roger Stone is lobbing grenades at DeSantis all the time, so unclear how you ditch Trump while keeping the Trump crowd. I don't think it can be done, and certainly not by Desantis. I loathe Trump but even I can appreciate Trump has a certain "charisma", shall we say, versus Desantis, who has the stage presence of colorectal cancer.
 
luckyone
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:51 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
Yes, in the McCarthy era, he was discredited and no one really rose to take his place, so the movement fell apart. Similarly Nixon voluntarily left the stage and no one really objected that it wasn't best for the nation.

With MAGA, if someone like DeSantis rises to take the reins, and does not publicly discredit Trump, but honors him instead, then the movement will continue with a new leader.

But if Trump goes after DeSantis as the heir apparent, then they could get into a King Kong vs Godzilla battle, which destroys Tokyo, and splits the MAGA movement.

Trump is basically a cult of personality, so I think many of his followers would stick with him to the bitter end.

I'd be curious how quietly DeSantis is preparing himself to be stabbed in the back by Trump. You don't make the moves DeSantis is making without bigger aspirations than Tallahassee. I'm sure as shrewd as DeSantis can be politically he knows Trump will turn on him at the drop of a MAGA hat.

Roger Stone is lobbing grenades at DeSantis all the time, so unclear how you ditch Trump while keeping the Trump crowd. I don't think it can be done, and certainly not by Desantis. I loathe Trump but even I can appreciate Trump has a certain "charisma", shall we say, versus Desantis, who has the stage presence of colorectal cancer.

I agree that DeSantis has the same conundrum as Ted Cruz in that they're both about as likeable a landmine and that Trump's clownishness can take the edge off of his shambolic and combative nature. Where I differ is to whether DeSantis can pick up the torch so to speak. There is a groundswell of chatter in the commentarium -- for whatever that's worth -- about what "a great governor" DeSantis is and it's gained traction. Personally I think that was started by the DeSantis people as part of their operation because that's not historically typical of American political discourse -- never in my life did I hear anybody when discussing politics site the governor of another state and just crow about them. It's too pervasive and suggestive of a PR campaign.
 
bluecrew
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:04 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Here is a link to the Mar-a-Lago seized document inventory.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... 3391_1.pdf

NYTimes has an article up about all the empty folders... possibly some of the documents are still in the wind?
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:08 pm

bluecrew wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
Here is a link to the Mar-a-Lago seized document inventory.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... 3391_1.pdf

NYTimes has an article up about all the empty folders... possibly some of the documents are still in the wind?


Yes, here is a Reuters article asking that same question. Also noted that Bill Barr has joined Karl Rove on Fox News in saying Trump had no right to have those documents. Barr said in that context, a special master is a waste of time.

Trump had more than 11,000 documents, after swearing he had none. Who actually knows what he might have stashed away? Or given away to someone else?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-cou ... 022-09-02/
 
skyservice_330
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:47 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
I loathe Trump but even I can appreciate Trump has a certain "charisma", shall we say, versus Desantis, who has the stage presence of colorectal cancer.


You owe me a new keyboard :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:36 am

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62771613

Family members and allies might be girding their loins.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:00 am

What's especially worrying, as noted avove, is the amount of empty folders... We may never know where these state secrets ended up and Trump will obviously never tell.

I wonder if this may be enough to warrant another more thorough search of Mar a Lago.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Sep 03, 2022 12:36 pm

Apparently during the August search at MAL, agents went into the bedrooms of Donald and his wife. Melina 'felt violated' by the search that included going through her underwear drawers. Bo-Hoo..

Search warrants are issued by the court. The DOJ had good reason to believe documents, including highly security level ones that belong to the government, not Trump, were in the personal living areas and business areas of his property and the search warrant allowed that. Yes, many of us would feel very violated about our personal clothing being gone through, but too often critical documents or illegal substances subject to the search are co-mingled in them and a proper reason to do so.
 
pune
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:21 pm

ReverseFlow wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
The basic tenet of the Trump position is that he retains some aspects of Presidential powers, including executive privilege, ability to have declassified anything taken in the move to Mar-a-Lago, and retention of Presidential records, all at his discretion.

Although the DoJ sought to establish probable cause for the warrant based only on the last retention issue, the first two are central to the arguments of both sides.

Hence team Trump is trying to defuse the classification issue, by claiming that if Trump's right to the documents is accepted, along with his right to declassify, then the presence of declassified documents is to be expected.

They have also yielded very slightly on the central retention issue utilized to establish probable cause. They now claim that Trump was working toward return of the documents to the National Archives, but it fell within his discretion to negotiate the return, as a matter of privilege.

The judge should be able to dismiss the retention claim, which disputes the Presidential Records Act. And dismiss the claim to executive privilege, which is clearly vested by long precedent and established case law, in the current executive.

With those two pillars gone, the declassification pillar cannot stand on its own. So we will see if this is what happens today.
Well if you see some of Jordan Kleppers videos with Trump supporters, they think he is still in charge in the background (love their faces when they get asked if the Afghanistan exit fiasco was then also Trumps fault if he was in charge).

And as Trump thinks he won the election - he must be President still and therefore still have Presidential powers...

It's like his head would explode if he's actually admit/realise he didn't 'win big' for a change.


I haven't seen that one, can you share, either here or DM/PM whatever is preferable to you, thank you.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:25 pm

pune wrote:
ReverseFlow wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
The basic tenet of the Trump position is that he retains some aspects of Presidential powers, including executive privilege, ability to have declassified anything taken in the move to Mar-a-Lago, and retention of Presidential records, all at his discretion.

Although the DoJ sought to establish probable cause for the warrant based only on the last retention issue, the first two are central to the arguments of both sides.

Hence team Trump is trying to defuse the classification issue, by claiming that if Trump's right to the documents is accepted, along with his right to declassify, then the presence of declassified documents is to be expected.

They have also yielded very slightly on the central retention issue utilized to establish probable cause. They now claim that Trump was working toward return of the documents to the National Archives, but it fell within his discretion to negotiate the return, as a matter of privilege.

The judge should be able to dismiss the retention claim, which disputes the Presidential Records Act. And dismiss the claim to executive privilege, which is clearly vested by long precedent and established case law, in the current executive.

With those two pillars gone, the declassification pillar cannot stand on its own. So we will see if this is what happens today.
Well if you see some of Jordan Kleppers videos with Trump supporters, they think he is still in charge in the background (love their faces when they get asked if the Afghanistan exit fiasco was then also Trumps fault if he was in charge).

And as Trump thinks he won the election - he must be President still and therefore still have Presidential powers...

It's like his head would explode if he's actually admit/realise he didn't 'win big' for a change.


I haven't seen that one, can you share, either here or DM/PM whatever is preferable to you, thank you.


Just search "Jordan Klepper" on YouTube, sit back and enjoy!
 
ReverseFlow
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:30 pm

pune wrote:
ReverseFlow wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
The basic tenet of the Trump position is that he retains some aspects of Presidential powers, including executive privilege, ability to have declassified anything taken in the move to Mar-a-Lago, and retention of Presidential records, all at his discretion.

Although the DoJ sought to establish probable cause for the warrant based only on the last retention issue, the first two are central to the arguments of both sides.

Hence team Trump is trying to defuse the classification issue, by claiming that if Trump's right to the documents is accepted, along with his right to declassify, then the presence of declassified documents is to be expected.

They have also yielded very slightly on the central retention issue utilized to establish probable cause. They now claim that Trump was working toward return of the documents to the National Archives, but it fell within his discretion to negotiate the return, as a matter of privilege.

The judge should be able to dismiss the retention claim, which disputes the Presidential Records Act. And dismiss the claim to executive privilege, which is clearly vested by long precedent and established case law, in the current executive.

With those two pillars gone, the declassification pillar cannot stand on its own. So we will see if this is what happens today.
Well if you see some of Jordan Kleppers videos with Trump supporters, they think he is still in charge in the background (love their faces when they get asked if the Afghanistan exit fiasco was then also Trumps fault if he was in charge).

And as Trump thinks he won the election - he must be President still and therefore still have Presidential powers...

It's like his head would explode if he's actually admit/realise he didn't 'win big' for a change.


I haven't seen that one, can you share, either here or DM/PM whatever is preferable to you, thank you.
As said, goto Youtube and search Jordan Klepper.
But what I was referring to was in here I think.

https://youtu.be/qs6mBh2uXRM
 
pune
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:31 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but enjoy :biggrin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6hxYoiGeRI


Monty Python done it again ;)
 
pune
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:41 pm

ReverseFlow wrote:
pune wrote:
ReverseFlow wrote:
Well if you see some of Jordan Kleppers videos with Trump supporters, they think he is still in charge in the background (love their faces when they get asked if the Afghanistan exit fiasco was then also Trumps fault if he was in charge).

And as Trump thinks he won the election - he must be President still and therefore still have Presidential powers...

It's like his head would explode if he's actually admit/realise he didn't 'win big' for a change.


I haven't seen that one, can you share, either here or DM/PM whatever is preferable to you, thank you.
As said, goto Youtube and search Jordan Klepper.
But what I was referring to was in here I think.

https://youtu.be/qs6mBh2uXRM


Nope, it didn't have that but it was entertaining enough. I dunno how Jordan Klepper keeps up with it. I have seen enough to see, that he just has to let them speak, not pick an argument, not do anything, just be at peace and they will unravel themselves. How many delusions can people have? Pedophiles are triangles of pizza, who makes this stuff up??? ROFL, thank you.
 
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seb146
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:30 pm

If he didn't even bother to read documents that were given to him while he was in office, why would he have taken them with him?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:49 pm

seb146 wrote:
If he didn't even bother to read documents that were given to him while he was in office, why would he have taken them with him?


Good point!

I've heard lots of excuses and plenty of "He declassified them all!", but the one thing I haven't heard yet is any plausible explanation for why Trump still had those documents over 18 months after he dragged his sorry ass out of the Oval Office.
 
Vintage
Posts: 903
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:48 pm

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:21 pm

scbriml wrote:
the one thing I haven't heard yet is any plausible explanation for why Trump still had those documents over 18 months after he dragged his sorry ass out of the Oval Office.

Bargaining chips and blackmail fodder.
 
Avatar2go
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:35 am

In his Pennsylvania rally speech tonight, Trump hit on his bogeyman theme again, as he always does. The DoJ/FBI are coming after me, and you're next.

"They’re trying to silence me and more importantly they’re trying to silence you. But we will not be silenced, right?” Trump said.

Still hard to believe people actually fall for this. Trump was raided because he broke the law and then lied about it. He had the property of the American people in his home.
 
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seb146
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:33 am

Avatar2go wrote:
In his Pennsylvania rally speech tonight, Trump hit on his bogeyman theme again, as he always does. The DoJ/FBI are coming after me, and you're next.

"They’re trying to silence me and more importantly they’re trying to silence you. But we will not be silenced, right?” Trump said.

Still hard to believe people actually fall for this. Trump was raided because he broke the law and then lied about it. He had the property of the American people in his home.


He honestly believes he is above the law. And he has conned his followers into believing they are above the law as well. Look how many left January 6 believing he would pardon them and bail them out and pay to defend them. He did none of that, but they still believe. It's the art of the con... er... deal.
 
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ER757
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:12 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
In his Pennsylvania rally speech tonight, Trump hit on his bogeyman theme again, as he always does. The DoJ/FBI are coming after me, and you're next.

"They’re trying to silence me and more importantly they’re trying to silence you. But we will not be silenced, right?” Trump said.

Still hard to believe people actually fall for this. Trump was raided because he broke the law and then lied about it. He had the property of the American people in his home.

He's gotten beyond tiresome with his BS schtick - am I the only one that wants him to just go away for good?
 
hh65man
Posts: 328
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:28 pm

I’ve told everyone the moments he’s indicted, or goes “away” I am throwing a all hands invited block BBQ, slash Chilli Fest. Not gonna hold my breath but my fingers are crossed.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:56 am

scbriml wrote:
seb146 wrote:
If he didn't even bother to read documents that were given to him while he was in office, why would he have taken them with him?


Good point!

I've heard lots of excuses and plenty of "He declassified them all!", but the one thing I haven't heard yet is any plausible explanation for why Trump still had those documents over 18 months after he dragged his sorry ass out of the Oval Office.


If i didn´t misslisten the subpoena was for Documents marked classified, not clossified documents, anyways, making declassification a moot point besides those belonging to the US government and not him, regardless of classification status.

best regards
Thomas
 
bluecrew
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:52 am

Vintage wrote:
scbriml wrote:
the one thing I haven't heard yet is any plausible explanation for why Trump still had those documents over 18 months after he dragged his sorry ass out of the Oval Office.

Bargaining chips and blackmail fodder.

Would love to know what the supposed Macron kompromat is, and why Trump hung on to it.

I'm buying the Pod Save the World opinion that this was just random stuff that he thought could be useful, so he had someone stuff it in boxes and then took it with him. Not even because he had any idea what was in any of the crates, but that he knew it was important and he wanted it, because he thinks he's important.

The empty envelopes are ominous. Enough TS, TS/SCI, and documents tagged as HUMINT to make anybody worry. I'm concerned if we're still missing documents, that those documents might not be very... secure.

The raptor tested the fences, ripped through the fences, ate the handlers and made it all the way to the helipad. This sort of stuff is out of control. Can we imagine if Bush Sr. or Carter did this? Helicopters landing on their lawn.
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:59 am

bluecrew wrote:
Would love to know what the supposed Macron kompromat is, and why Trump hung on to it.

If Marine Le Pen comes up with some embarrassing personal information about Macron in the future we can guess where it came from.

I don't think it was random stuff but I very much agree that the empty envelopes are ominous, something used to be in them.
 
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seb146
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Mon Sep 05, 2022 5:57 pm

The MAGA appointed judge granted him a special master for the documents

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/05/11208855 ... ster-judge
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trumps ... 022-09-05/

They are looking at "executive privilege" as a reason to return the documents to MAL.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Mon Sep 05, 2022 9:46 pm

Here is the link to Judge Cannon's ruling:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 3.64.0.pdf

1. She finds that the court has equitable jurisdiction, due to the potential for injury to Trump, with regard to the government's seizure & possession of some personal records & effects.

2. She finds that Trump has standing due to the Filter Review Team's identification of some attorney-client priveleged materials within the seized documents.

3. She sets aside the issue of executive privilege, but notes precedent for former Presidents to retain some control over the exposure of communications to the public, does exist (he may request of both the National Archives and the incumbent President, to hold those communications as privileged).

4. She finds that the exceptional circumstances warrant a special master, to protect Trump's rights and the public perception of fairness. She also noted that from the Filter Team's report, on 2 occasions privileged materials were passed to, but returned by, the Investigative Team, as privileged. This weighs toward the need for a review process by the master.

5. She finds that a temporary injunction of the DoJ/ FBI investigation is necessary to protect the function of the master. But the intelligence review of classified materials by the government may continue.

6. She orders that Trump and DoJ present the agreed duties and procedures of the master by September 9th, as well as any disputes, for action by the Court.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 18397
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:51 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Here is the link to Judge Cannon's ruling:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 3.64.0.pdf

1. She finds that the court has equitable jurisdiction, due to the potential for injury to Trump, with regard to the government's seizure & possession of some personal records & effects.

2. She finds that Trump has standing due to the Filter Review Team's identification of some attorney-client priveleged materials within the seized documents.

3. She sets aside the issue of executive privilege, but notes precedent for former Presidents to retain some control over the exposure of communications to the public, does exist (he may request of both the National Archives and the incumbent President, to hold those communications as privileged).

4. She finds that the exceptional circumstances warrant a special master, to protect Trump's rights and the public perception of fairness. She also noted that from the Filter Team's report, on 2 occasions privileged materials were passed to, but returned by, the Investigative Team, as privileged. This weighs toward the need for a review process by the master.

5. She finds that a temporary injunction of the DoJ/ FBI investigation is necessary to protect the function of the master. But the intelligence review of classified materials by the government may continue.

6. She orders that Trump and DoJ present the agreed duties and procedures of the master by September 9th, as well as any disputes, for action by the Court.


Instant appeal. An injunction on criminal investigation for materials already processed, inventoried, and separated is completely illogical.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:19 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

Instant appeal. An injunction on criminal investigation for materials already processed, inventoried, and separated is completely illogical.


It does raise the question of what happens for disputes between the DoJ and the Special Master. Judge Cannon notes that by law, disputes regarding the Presidential Records Act must be resolved by the D.C. District Court. That could end up in a battle over jurisdiction, since Presidential records are involved here.

Also she kicked the can down the road with regard to executive privilege. That seems sure to arise in the evaluation of the records. DoJ evaluated on the premise that it doesn't exist for a former President, but Trump is sure to assert otherwise, and insist the master evaluate on the basis of privilege.

She left that up to the parties to work out, but I don't see how they ever could or would, which means more litigation. So the dispute is not really resolved by this ruling, there is still a major fight ahead.

My overall impression is that she found minor bases for granting herself jurisdiction and Trump standing. They are legitimate & legally correct, but open to question and interpretation.

Probably we are looking at a lot more conflict and time in court. Which all plays to Trump's advantage.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:32 am

Avatar2go wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Instant appeal. An injunction on criminal investigation for materials already processed, inventoried, and separated is completely illogical.


It does raise the question of what happens for disputes between the DoJ and the Special Master. Judge Cannon notes that by law, disputes regarding the Presidential Records Act must be resolved by the D.C. District Court. That could end up in a battle over jurisdiction, since Presidential records are involved here.


This will be the crux of government appeal - Cannon questioned Trump’s assertion of standing, then accepted a flimsy justification from his lawyers and asserted jurisdiction when the central matter can only be resolved in the DC DC.
 
aristoenigma
Posts: 362
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:35 am

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... mar-a-lago\
It has to be appealed and prolonged reminders in daily reporting won't help the GOP in November Senate and House elections. 45 continues to be center of attention at everyone else's expense.

Who is paying 45's legal bills?
 
Kent350787
Posts: 2575
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:02 am

aristoenigma wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/05/donald-trump-special-master-fbi-mar-a-lago\
It has to be appealed and prolonged reminders in daily reporting won't help the GOP in November Senate and House elections. 45 continues to be center of attention at everyone else's expense.

Who is paying 45's legal bills?


Someone's going to pay his legal bills? /s

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