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Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:04 am

Kent350787 wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/05/donald-trump-special-master-fbi-mar-a-lago\
It has to be appealed and prolonged reminders in daily reporting won't help the GOP in November Senate and House elections. 45 continues to be center of attention at everyone else's expense.

Who is paying 45's legal bills?


Someone's going to pay his legal bills? /s

Yes, the Trumpchumps.

They've been sending him money at the rate of a million bucks a day.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... -fbi-raid/
 
ltbewr
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:21 am

Likely the decision for the US District Judge to appoint a Special Master will lead to delays with Trump hoping they extend until the possible takeover of control of the US House from the fall election pressuring the DOJ from further prosecution of any kind by harassment with House Committee investigations and in the media of the DOJ, FBI,etc.
 
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seb146
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:56 am

ltbewr wrote:
Likely the decision for the US District Judge to appoint a Special Master will lead to delays with Trump hoping they extend until the possible takeover of control of the US House from the fall election pressuring the DOJ from further prosecution of any kind by harassment with House Committee investigations and in the media of the DOJ, FBI,etc.


Those in elected positions may be beholden to their dear leader but us voters are not. We are already seeing the backlash to big government intruding on our everyday lives with the reversal of Roe so, with the constant facts being put out there about what the former occupant did, I don't know if MAGAs can control the House or even the Senate. We also know they want to strip us of our Medicare and Social Security. There is an actual chance Democrats can retain control of both chambers of Congress.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:48 am

Kent350787 wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/05/donald-trump-special-master-fbi-mar-a-lago\
It has to be appealed and prolonged reminders in daily reporting won't help the GOP in November Senate and House elections. 45 continues to be center of attention at everyone else's expense.

Who is paying 45's legal bills?


Someone's going to pay his legal bills? /s


The RNC has paid his legal bills relative to challenging the 2020 election. And also around $1.6M for his NY state legal defense, which was begun while he was President. They've informed him they will stop that support if he becomes a Presidential candidate, due to conflict of interest with other candidates.

They have not paid for his Mar-a-Lago defense, but he has raised millions in his Save America PAC. So there will be plenty of money provided by his supporters.
 
alfa164
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:38 am

aristoenigma wrote:
Who is paying 45's legal bills?


Ask Rudy...
 
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scbriml
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:12 am

aristoenigma wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/05/donald-trump-special-master-fbi-mar-a-lago\
It has to be appealed and prolonged reminders in daily reporting won't help the GOP in November Senate and House elections. 45 continues to be center of attention at everyone else's expense.

Who is paying 45's legal bills?


His cult following are sending him their money. Whether he uses it to pay his legal fees is an entirely separate issue. Based on precedent, I suspect not.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:13 am

Vintage wrote:
They've been sending him money at the rate of a million bucks a day.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... -fbi-raid/


It's simply beyond comprehension.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:58 pm

scbriml wrote:

His cult following are sending him their money. Whether he uses it to pay his legal fees is an entirely separate issue. Based on precedent, I suspect not.


The Save America PAC has few restrictions on spending. One of them is that the money cannot be spent on a Trump political campaign, without violating campaign finance law.

However it is allowed to make charitable donations, and is supporting numerous law firms defending Trump and his associates in various actions. In July, it spent about $1M on those activities. So I would not be surprised if that method is used for his Mar-a-Lago defense.

https://news.yahoo.com/heres-trumps-pac ... 19828.html
 
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casinterest
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:30 pm

So according to Bill Barr and a host of others, the Federal Trump Judge that approved the Special Master may be completely off base.


https://www.businessinsider.com/legal-e ... ing-2022-9

I don't think a special master makes sense in connection with executive privilege material," Bill Barr, who served as attorney general under Trump, told Reuters.

"If the documents are subject to executive privilege they involve official deliberations about executive actions, and by definition, those documents belong to the government."
 
wingman
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:46 pm

Based on the parade of law professors I listened to this morning, Cannon is little more than a political hack. Trump talks about the Deep State..this is it in action. Everything he rails on about, he's talking about himself. It's the classic genetic marker of any accomplished peddler of potions and magic elixirs. In just four short years Trump tuned the entire Judicial Branch into a joke.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:26 pm

I think Judge Cannon was reaching a bit in her justifications for equitable jurisdiction and standing. But we will see what an appeal brings.

She did not use executive privilege explicitly in her ruling, but she implied that it may exist if Trump can demonstrate a "colorable" property interest. That is extremely vague, and I'm sure would get tied up in litigation.

Overall, she has her foot in the door to hold it open for him, and said explicitly in her ruling that Trump should be permitted that right, and not have legal recourse foreclosed to him.
 
pune
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:40 am

Avatar2go wrote:
I think Judge Cannon was reaching a bit in her justifications for equitable jurisdiction and standing. But we will see what an appeal brings.

She did not use executive privilege explicitly in her ruling, but she implied that it may exist if Trump can demonstrate a "colorable" property interest. That is extremely vague, and I'm sure would get tied up in litigation.

Overall, she has her foot in the door to hold it open for him, and said explicitly in her ruling that Trump should be permitted that right, and not have legal recourse foreclosed to him.


In other words, she simply made stuff up.
 
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seb146
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 07, 2022 2:30 pm

Recovered documents include top secret documents on another country's nuclear capabilities that are shown only to officials on a "need to know" basis

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... 234587730/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityar ... bb72e449db

Why would someone need to take these documents from the White House?
 
victrola
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:43 pm

seb146 wrote:
Recovered documents include top secret documents on another country's nuclear capabilities that are shown only to officials on a "need to know" basis

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... 234587730/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityar ... bb72e449db

Why would someone need to take these documents from the White House?


Well, our usual cast of Trump defenders silence on this question has been stunning and not a single Republican political leader has had the guts to answer this question. They won't answer because they don't have an answer. It's just deflection after deflection. Come on you Trump defenders out there give us a damn answer!!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:46 pm

victrola wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Recovered documents include top secret documents on another country's nuclear capabilities that are shown only to officials on a "need to know" basis

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... 234587730/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityar ... bb72e449db

Why would someone need to take these documents from the White House?


Well, our usual cast of Trump defenders silence on this question has been stunning and not a single Republican political leader has had the guts to answer this question. They won't answer because they don't have an answer. It's just deflection after deflection. Come on you Trump defenders out there give us a damn answer!!!

LOCK HIM UP!
LOCK HIM UP!
LOCK HIM UP!

May he pray that they find that all the classified documents were just to call girls in Russia.
 
victrola
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:54 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Have the released what they found in the raid?


Nothing important. Just some top-secret information on the nuclear capabilities of a foreign power among other top-secret items. You know, just the kind of stuff any of us would have lying around in our desk drawers and closets.
Last edited by victrola on Wed Sep 07, 2022 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 07, 2022 4:04 pm

victrola wrote:
Well, our usual cast of Trump defenders silence on this question has been stunning

They are too busy being offended by Bidden’s speech to write anything (except in the Biden speech thread). Who knows, maybe they are all in counselling or something.
 
VolvoBus
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 07, 2022 4:18 pm

seb146 wrote:
Recovered documents include top secret documents on another country's nuclear capabilities that are shown only to officials on a "need to know" basis

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... 234587730/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityar ... bb72e449db

Why would someone need to take these documents from the White House?


Possibly more important, how was he able to retain these ? The talking National Security heads I have seen all say that these papers are kept under lock and key and signed for whenever accessed. The fact they have been sitting in Mar-a-Lago for over a year suggests a glaring hole in the security system. Somebody should be facing some very uncomfortable questions very quickly.
 
victrola
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 07, 2022 4:24 pm

VolvoBus wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Recovered documents include top secret documents on another country's nuclear capabilities that are shown only to officials on a "need to know" basis

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... 234587730/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityar ... bb72e449db

Why would someone need to take these documents from the White House?


Possibly more important, how was he able to retain these ? The talking National Security heads I have seen all say that these papers are kept under lock and key and signed for whenever accessed. The fact they have been sitting in Mar-a-Lago for over a year suggests a glaring hole in the security system. Somebody should be facing some very uncomfortable questions very quickly.


Heck when he was in office, I'm sure documents like these could be bought in the White House gift shop.
 
dalmit
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:10 pm

seb146 wrote:
Recovered documents include top secret documents on another country's nuclear capabilities that are shown only to officials on a "need to know" basis

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... 234587730/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityar ... bb72e449db

Why would someone need to take these documents from the White House?


My guess is the foreign country is Iran and he was taking the documents to give to Israel.
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:23 pm

dalmit wrote:
My guess is the foreign country is Iran and he was taking the documents to give to Israel.

My guess is that the country is Israel and he was using them to impress his NY Jewish friends.
Israel tells us what's going on in Iran, not the other way around.
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:38 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ents-spies

Underscores the importance of appealing the silly master grant. Cannot imagine any master being allowed to vet international nuclear files. An appeal judge will not likely uphold the weak reasoning of Cannon. The charges against 45 are now closer than ever. Delay games will continue but DOJ has to advance for the sake of the USA
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:54 pm

aristoenigma wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/07/mar-a-lago-trump-nuclear-documents-spies

Underscores the importance of appealing the silly master grant. Cannot imagine any master being allowed to vet international nuclear files. An appeal judge will not likely uphold the weak reasoning of Cannon. The charges against 45 are now closer than ever. Delay games will continue but DOJ has to advance for the sake of the USA


So perhaps no appeal, though? I would have expected it today or tomorrow. Friday they have to be responsive to the Court's order. They would need to be working on that in some form by now.

Perhaps they know or are waiting for the certain dispute with Trump over the rules and selection of the master?
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:04 pm

Vintage wrote:
dalmit wrote:
My guess is the foreign country is Iran and he was taking the documents to give to Israel.

My guess is that the country is Israel and he was using them to impress his NY Jewish friends.
Israel tells us what's going on in Iran, not the other way around.


That's my guess, too. The only real nuclear secrets are the Israeli ones.

They have managed to build nuclear weapons without testing (discounting that Vela incident), they didn't need gigantic processing facilities à la Hanford, and they didn't have to build huge nuclear devices first, with miniaturizing later (Little Boy + Fat Man --> ... --> B83 bomb). Israel was also quite resource-limited (in terms of cash, nuclear engineers and physicists) and still managed to build nuclear weapons.

If I were a country that urgently needs a nuclear weapons capability, I would seek any info on the Israeli nuclear programme.
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:16 am

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bill-barr- ... ed-appeal/

45's longest serving AG says the Master ruling is bogus. Better get the appeal rolling as it is a better use of time elongation than arguing over which trusted Master choice can see deadly classified documents.eg no such Master exists.
 
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alberchico
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:32 pm

dalmit wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Recovered documents include top secret documents on another country's nuclear capabilities that are shown only to officials on a "need to know" basis

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... 234587730/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityar ... bb72e449db

Why would someone need to take these documents from the White House?


My guess is the foreign country is Iran and he was taking the documents to give to Israel.


Wouldn't it have made more sense to share any intel with the Israelis while he was in office ?
 
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seb146
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:48 pm

alberchico wrote:
dalmit wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Recovered documents include top secret documents on another country's nuclear capabilities that are shown only to officials on a "need to know" basis

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... 234587730/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityar ... bb72e449db

Why would someone need to take these documents from the White House?


My guess is the foreign country is Iran and he was taking the documents to give to Israel.


Wouldn't it have made more sense to share any intel with the Israelis while he was in office ?


No. That would have been yet another impeachable offence. Because he is out of office, he can share that information for whatever price he puts. The grift continues.

And we don't know how many digital copies of all of this there are out there...
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:10 pm

aristoenigma wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bill-barr-special-master-ruling-deeply-flawed-appeal/

45's longest serving AG says the Master ruling is bogus. Better get the appeal rolling as it is a better use of time elongation than arguing over which trusted Master choice can see deadly classified documents.eg no such Master exists.

One problem with an appeal is the fact that the 11th Circuit Court is stocked with six Trump appointees.

Here's a good analysis:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/07/us/p ... aster.html
 
luckyone
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:14 pm

Vintage wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bill-barr-special-master-ruling-deeply-flawed-appeal/

45's longest serving AG says the Master ruling is bogus. Better get the appeal rolling as it is a better use of time elongation than arguing over which trusted Master choice can see deadly classified documents.eg no such Master exists.

One problem with an appeal is the fact that the 11th Circuit Court is stocked with six Trump appointees.

Here's a good analysis:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/07/us/p ... aster.html

Guess we are about to find out. DOJ will appeal. This will likely make its way to SCOTUS one way or another.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec ... nts-probe/

What’s really interesting to see is this is clear judicial activism, which many conservatives claim to dislike. There is no basis in law for the intial ruling, only optics.
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:20 pm

luckyone wrote:
Guess we are about to find out. DOJ will appeal. This will likely make its way to SCOTUS one way or another.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec ... nts-probe/

What’s really interesting to see is this is clear judicial activism, which many conservatives claim to dislike. There is no basis in law for the intial ruling, only optics.

The DOJ has filed:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/08/trump-f ... ision.html

They have filed multiple motions. One of them requests relief from the order preventing them from continuing to search through the documents.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:02 pm

Here is the motion filed by the DoJ today, which requests a stay on the injunction for FBI review, but only for the classified records. For non-classified records, the DoJ agrees to the injunction, pending an appeal.

There are also a very brief to motion to appeal, and a brief motion to release the report from the FBI Filter Team, which had been filed under seal, but has since been included in the Judge's ruling, and widely reported in the media.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 69.0_1.pdf

1. The DoJ asserts that Trump can have no possible jurisdiction or standing with regard to classified documents, since the act of classification defines them as belonging to the government.

2. The DoJ asserts that the FBI cannot be extricated from the intelligence review of the classified documents, because they are primary facilitators of both the documents and the review.

3. The DoJ asserts that irreparable harm is done to the government's duty to carry out the investigation of the handling of classified documents, which is an essential and immediate public interest.

4. The DoJ asserts that no harm is done to Trump, beyond culpability or liability resulting from the investigation, from excluding the classified documents from the purview of the special master.

There is also an attached declaration of the Director of Counterintelligence, that FBI involvement is essential to the intelligence review.

Lastly DoJ signaled their intention to comply with another aspects of the Court's order involving the special master and provision of documents, pending appeal. They will submit their candidates and rules for the master tomorrow, as directed.

It's interesting that there is no mention of Trump's claim that the documents are declassified, either in the Judge's ruling or in the DoJ response. Yet that will be central to Trump's claim of privilege over the classified documents. It's as if neither the Court nor the DoJ wants to even touch or acknowledge that claim.

This whole case gets stranger by the minute!
 
luckyone
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:15 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Here is the motion filed by the DoJ today, which requests a stay on the injunction for FBI review, but only for the classified records. For non-classified records, the DoJ agrees to the injunction, pending an appeal.

There are also a very brief to motion to appeal, and a brief motion to release the report from the FBI Filter Team, which had been filed under seal, but has since been included in the Judge's ruling, and widely reported in the media.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 69.0_1.pdf

1. The DoJ asserts that Trump can have no possible jurisdiction or standing with regard to classified documents, since the act of classification defines them as belonging to the government.

2. The DoJ asserts that the FBI cannot be extricated from the intelligence review of the classified documents, because they are primary facilitators of both the documents and the review.

3. The DoJ asserts that irreparable harm is done to the government's duty to carry out the investigation of the handling of classified documents, which is an essential and immediate public interest.

4. The DoJ asserts that no harm is done to Trump, beyond culpability or liability resulting from the investigation, from excluding the classified documents from the purview of the special master.

There is also an attached declaration of the Director of Counterintelligence, that FBI involvement is essential to the intelligence review.

Lastly DoJ signaled their intention to comply with another aspects of the Court's order involving the special master and provision of documents, pending appeal. They will submit their candidates and rules for the master tomorrow, as directed.

It's interesting that there is no mention of Trump's claim that the documents are declassified, either in the Judge's ruling or in the DoJ response. Yet that will be central to Trump's claim of privilege over the classified documents. It's as if neither the Court nor the DoJ wants to even touch or acknowledge that claim.

This whole case gets stranger by the minute!

Unless I’m mistaken, Trump hasn’t argued the declassification spiel in court. So the DOJ has nothing to argue against it, and the court can’t rule on it. Kind of like the 2020 election fraud (where his attorneys explicitly denied fraud in court) he says one thing for the uninformed rhetoric, and another when it actually has consequences.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:59 pm

luckyone wrote:
Unless I’m mistaken, Trump hasn’t argued the declassification spiel in court. So the DOJ has nothing to argue against it, and the court can’t rule on it. Kind of like the 2020 election fraud (where his attorneys explicitly denied fraud in court) he says one thing for the uninformed rhetoric, and another when it actually has consequences.


It was mentioned in the original lawsuit, while challenging the search warrant affidavit redactions. Trump questioned whether the FBI had adequately checked to see if the documents were declassified (by him).

But you're right, after the Judge's rebuke of that document, it hasn't been mentioned again in court. So no need for either Judge or DoJ to address it.

It will be interesting if he then uses it again as a public objection to the stay. That would be really lame.
 
luckyone
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:00 am

Avatar2go wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Unless I’m mistaken, Trump hasn’t argued the declassification spiel in court. So the DOJ has nothing to argue against it, and the court can’t rule on it. Kind of like the 2020 election fraud (where his attorneys explicitly denied fraud in court) he says one thing for the uninformed rhetoric, and another when it actually has consequences.


It was mentioned in the original lawsuit, while challenging the search warrant affidavit redactions. Trump questioned whether the FBI had adequately checked to see if the documents were declassified (by him).

But you're right, after the Judge's rebuke of that document, it hasn't been mentioned again in court. So no need for either Judge or DoJ to address it.

It will be interesting if he then uses it again as a public objection to the stay. That would be really lame.

Trump needs to act like he’s as smart as he says he is. He needs to shut up, because if he wins any of these lawsuits somebody in Justice WILL leak or blab, a la Linda Tripp.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:58 am

Avatar2go wrote:
Here is the motion filed by the DoJ today, which requests a stay on the injunction for FBI review, but only for the classified records. For non-classified records, the DoJ agrees to the injunction, pending an appeal.

There are also a very brief to motion to appeal, and a brief motion to release the report from the FBI Filter Team, which had been filed under seal, but has since been included in the Judge's ruling, and widely reported in the media.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 69.0_1.pdf

1. The DoJ asserts that Trump can have no possible jurisdiction or standing with regard to classified documents, since the act of classification defines them as belonging to the government.

2. The DoJ asserts that the FBI cannot be extricated from the intelligence review of the classified documents, because they are primary facilitators of both the documents and the review.

3. The DoJ asserts that irreparable harm is done to the government's duty to carry out the investigation of the handling of classified documents, which is an essential and immediate public interest.

4. The DoJ asserts that no harm is done to Trump, beyond culpability or liability resulting from the investigation, from excluding the classified documents from the purview of the special master.

There is also an attached declaration of the Director of Counterintelligence, that FBI involvement is essential to the intelligence review.

Lastly DoJ signaled their intention to comply with another aspects of the Court's order involving the special master and provision of documents, pending appeal. They will submit their candidates and rules for the master tomorrow, as directed.

It's interesting that there is no mention of Trump's claim that the documents are declassified, either in the Judge's ruling or in the DoJ response. Yet that will be central to Trump's claim of privilege over the classified documents. It's as if neither the Court nor the DoJ wants to even touch or acknowledge that claim.

This whole case gets stranger by the minute!


What's interesting to me is that there may be more missing documents in Trump's possession.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/governmen ... 022-09-08/

s) - Former U.S. President Donald Trump's team may not have returned all the classified records removed from the White House at the end of his presidency even after an FBI search of his home, U.S. prosecutors warned on Thursday, calling it a potential national security risk that needs investigation.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:52 pm

It appears from the DoJ filings yesterday, that the FBI is actively looking into the whereabouts of the classified documents from the empty folders. That's partly why they don't want the classified part of the investigation to be enjoined.

Since Trump now knows what they are looking for, he would have the opportunity to destroy any evidence as to whether he did or does possess them, or how he may have disposed of them.
 
wingman
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:55 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Since Trump now knows what they are looking for, he would have the opportunity to destroy any evidence as to whether he did or does possess them, or how he may have disposed of them.


I'm not sure of the law in this case but possibly destroying or disposing of this kind of evidence might also get Trump the electric chair. Fantasy or truth? Don't tell me yet! The fantasy is like a lottery ticket, it'll help me rock myself to sleep over the weekend.
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2009
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Sat Sep 10, 2022 3:39 am

Trump and the DoJ have made their joint filing, establishing their candidates for, and duties of, the Special Master. They disagree on several points that Judge Cannon will have to resolve:

1. Trump wants to split the cost, DoJ says the burden is on Trump to pay for his challenge.

2. DoJ wants to exclude classified materials from the Master's review, Trump wants to include them.

3. DoJ wants the Master to confer with the National Archives on assessment of documents, Trump wants the Master to confer with his counsel.

4. Trump wants the Master to consider executive privilege in the assessment, DoJ considers only attorney-client privilege as applicable.

5. Trump wants the Master to assess which Presidential records he can keep under privilege, DoJ wants all records to go to the Archives, with Trump designating those he considers privileged.

There are several other differences in the proposed workflows, most favoring Trump keeping documents in his possession.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... review.pdf
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:02 pm

Trump has responded with a motion to deny the stay proposed by DOJ, to permit the continuation of FBI investigation into classified records. It hits on all Trump's allegations.

1. Trump asserts the DoJ has not met the burden of proof of urgency, or of irreparable harm to their investigation, which will not suffer from a delay.

2. Trump asserts that he will suffer irreparable harm, from an investigation by the administration of his political rival. As will the public if the investigation is not carried out with public view of the evidence.

3. Trump asserts that he had the right to declassify the records (notably he does not assert that they are in fact declassified).

4. Trump asserts that he had the right to determine which documents are personal or priveleged, and which are eligible for the Presidential Records Act and under the authority of the National Archives.

5. Trump asserts that any dispute is between himself and the Archivist, and is not a criminal matter under the DoJ, thus they are not entitled to seize or possess his records, nor limit the purview of the special master.

His legal team is now formally referencing the failed lawsuit by Tom Fitton to access the Clinton interview tapes. That is the basis of his positions. Clinton was allowed to separate those tapes as personal, therefore Trump has the same right.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 3.84.0.pdf
 
Vintage
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:54 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Trump has responded with a motion........................ (notably he does not assert that they are in fact declassified).


That is an interesting point. Maybe some one should file a Freedom of Information act request to the DoD or State Dept or the CIA so that the American public can see these documents as long as Trump declassified them. The American public should be able to know what interested Trump about Macron.

Get a judge to rule on whether they have been declassified. Or at least make some click bait headlines. :stirthepot:
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2009
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:50 pm

Vintage wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
Trump has responded with a motion........................ (notably he does not assert that they are in fact declassified).


That is an interesting point. Maybe some one should file a Freedom of Information act request to the DoD or State Dept or the CIA so that the American public can see these documents as long as Trump declassified them. The American public should be able to know what interested Trump about Macron.

Get a judge to rule on whether they have been declassified. Or at least make some click bait headlines. :stirthepot:


His team is dancing around the declassification issue, trying to imply it without actually claiming it outright, as that could land him in further trouble.

Ironically, they're banking on the fact that the documents are classified, so the DoJ will not want to reveal them or discuss them in public. But that could backfire if the DoJ decides to charge him with classified offenses.
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2009
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:53 am

The DoJ has accepted one of Trump's nominees for the special master, a former federal judge and senior judge on the circuit. Also asked that their own two nominees be considered as well, but any one would be acceptable. Asked that of these three, the candidate who could complete the most timely review be selected.

Trump did not accept either of the DoJ nominees, but declined to give a reason, out of respect to the nominees.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/12/politics ... index.html
 
VolvoBus
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:49 am

Huck,the other Trump nominee, was always going to be a long shot, as his wife serves on the 11thCircuit Court of Appeal, which will hear the case. Having requested the Special Master, Trump doesn't want to pay, wanting the Government to pay half - preumably DoJ will have to pay the other half.

A few more additions to the list of those Trump will be stiffing;
Christina Bobb. Rumour is that she has engaged legal representation - signing the affidavit that all documents were returned has left her in danger of an Obstruction of Justice charge, and makes her a material witness. She is pointing fingers, claiming ' I only signed it, it was drafted by
Evan Corcoran' who is now placed in the same boat ( or under same bus)

Semi-connected to this topic is the judgement of Judge Donald Middlebrooks in Trump v Clinton et al. (31 other co-defendants) After throwing out the case as statute barred (with prejudice) he proceeded to excoriate the Trump case, describing it as 'the quintessential frivolous case' and 'a litany of political complaints that have no place near a court of law'. Trump's attorney was Alina Habba, who appears on Fox mocking 'invisible confidential documents' and may,or may not, be in the Mar-a-Lago squad.

Judge Middlebrooks also revealed that Trump objected to his handling the case , which had been filed in the Fort Pierce division, which only has one Federal judge - Aileen M Cannon. Recognise the name? He pointed out her appointment by Trump, whose opinion regarding the objectivity of judges appeared variable, quoting three cases in support ( this appears a high proportion in comparison to Ms Habba's pleading.)

How does Trump keep hiring these nincompoops as lawyers ? As the Federalist Society appears to be the outsourcer for the Republican nominees for legal posts, you would think their brilliant legal minds would be queueing up to defend Trump ! Apparently not.
 
Avatar2go
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:42 pm

VolvoBus wrote:
Huck,the other Trump nominee, was always going to be a long shot, as his wife serves on the 11thCircuit Court of Appeal, which will hear the case. Having requested the Special Master, Trump doesn't want to pay, wanting the Government to pay half - preumably DoJ will have to pay the other half.

A few more additions to the list of those Trump will be stiffing;
Christina Bobb. Rumour is that she has engaged legal representation - signing the affidavit that all documents were returned has left her in danger of an Obstruction of Justice charge, and makes her a material witness. She is pointing fingers, claiming ' I only signed it, it was drafted by
Evan Corcoran' who is now placed in the same boat ( or under same bus)

Semi-connected to this topic is the judgement of Judge Donald Middlebrooks in Trump v Clinton et al. (31 other co-defendants) After throwing out the case as statute barred (with prejudice) he proceeded to excoriate the Trump case, describing it as 'the quintessential frivolous case' and 'a litany of political complaints that have no place near a court of law'. Trump's attorney was Alina Habba, who appears on Fox mocking 'invisible confidential documents' and may,or may not, be in the Mar-a-Lago squad.

Judge Middlebrooks also revealed that Trump objected to his handling the case , which had been filed in the Fort Pierce division, which only has one Federal judge - Aileen M Cannon. Recognise the name? He pointed out her appointment by Trump, whose opinion regarding the objectivity of judges appeared variable, quoting three cases in support ( this appears a high proportion in comparison to Ms Habba's pleading.)

How does Trump keep hiring these nincompoops as lawyers ? As the Federalist Society appears to be the outsourcer for the Republican nominees for legal posts, you would think their brilliant legal minds would be queueing up to defend Trump ! Apparently not.


Trump surrounds himself only with people who agree with & reinforce his own beliefs. As a result, he is advised poorly, and his attorneys all get into trouble for representing those beliefs. Once that happens, he dumps them and finds another yes-person to represent him.

The list is growing quite long. Cohen, Powell, Clark, Eastman, Guliani, Bobb, etc. The universal outcome is they perjure themselves and take the fall, while Trump remains above the fray. He uses them as sacrificial human shields. That's why he has trouble finding good representation (in addition to preferring people who are loyal before smart).

Judge Cannon has hung herself out on the edge for him, but probably is smart enough not to go over it.

Tom Fitton is probably the next to come under serious scrutiny. Team Trump has now cited his failed lawsuit in yesterday's motion, as asserting privilege in the right to decide which documents the Archives can take, and the lack of enforcement powers of the Presidential Records Act, or the Archives.

That's widely seen as an incorrect interpretation of that ruling. So we will see if Judge Cannon upholds it, or ignores it. My guess is the latter, as she found another case to make a reaching argument in her own ruling. That case had to do with former Presidents exerting privilege over communications of their records to the public, which she claims holds open the door for privilege. But notably the documents in that case were already in the possession of the Archives, and that was not disputed in the case.
 
VolvoBus
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:22 pm

@Avater2Go
In addition to the names you mentioned, one of the Youtubers said there were 17 other lawyers in professional or legal strife for undertaking legal work for Trump, mainly on the election cases. WRT to Jeff Clark ,I seem to remember that he returned to his old law firm when he left DoJ, but it seems he is counsel for a right-wing think-tank. Could it be that after being publicly shown to have manoeuvered to stab his acting bosses at DoJ in the back, the partners at his old firm got too many twitches between the shoulder-blades and forced him out ,as likely to be toxic.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:56 pm

DoJ has released a less redacted version of the Mar-a-Lago search warrant affidavit. Mainly it details the subpoena for video records that provide a timeline of the persons who accessed the basement room where the documents were stored.

Also it confirms that the envelope handed over to FBI in June, contained documents with classifications HCS, SI, and FISA, which are among the most secret.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... r-AA11N5I2
 
aristoenigma
Posts: 362
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:14 am

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... -rcna47492
This is so important to get done. 45 will refuse to so declare. Then the electors will speak.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:40 am

DoJ has filed a new motion in response to Trump's request for denial of the investigation of classified records in the Mar-a-Lago case.

1. DoJ asserts that Trump implies, but does not show within any court filing, that he either declassified or declared any documents as personal records. In so doing he hopes to influence the court without the need for proof or evidence.

2. DoJ asserts that Trump implies, but does not show within any court filing, that personal documents may be among the classified documents, and thus subject to the special master review. No proof or evidence in fact is offered, while all the documents are in fact marked classified.

3. DoJ asserts that classified documents are by definition the property of the government, thus Trump can have no claim of either privilege, or personal rights or use. Declassification, even if proved, would not alter their ownership status.

4. DoJ asserts that Trump's interpretation of the Tom Fitton Judicial Watch case ruling is without merit. The Clinton tapes in question were not classified and were not the property of the government. Further the Presidential Records Act clearly indicates that classified records could not be declared as personal communications, for the assertion of privilege.

5. DoJ asserts that irreparable harm is done if the investigation cannot pursue the chain of custody of the seized classified documents, as well as other documents Trump may still have in his possession (the empty folders).

6. DoJ asserts that Trump's claims that the investigation must have enhanced vigilance, and be conducted in public view, is contrary to professional investigative standards, especially in regard to classified materials.

Will be interesting to see how Judge Cannon rules on this. She can only reach so far without compromising herself, as Trump's previous counsels have done.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 88.0_5.pdf
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2009
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:21 pm

Trump today again said there would be "problems like we've never seen" if he were indicted for offenses related to the Mar-a-Lago documents, and that Americans would not "stand for it".

When asked if that was a call to action in the streets, he said "it's not incitement, it's my opinion". He also again made the claim that he declassified all the documents, although his legal team has yet to make that assertion in court.

Trump is always right on the very edge of legal behavior, but always careful not to step over it. He can accomplish a lot by implication, without ever having to provide evidence or proof.

Unfortunately his attorneys are not so lucky, their list of legal troubles is growing.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/1 ... d-00056911
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2009
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Mar-A-Lago raided by FBI.

Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:56 am

Judge Cannon has released her rulings on the
Trump special master and stay of classified documents. She appoints Judge Dearie as master for a period of 75 days, and rejects the stay which now will expire at the end of that time. This will likely be appealed by the DoJ.

1. She clarifies that Judge Dearie will prioritize the review of classified documents first, to expedite adjudication of any challenges that result.

2. She clarifies that DoJ is enjoined only from investigative work involving the seized materials, and not those resulting from other forms of evidence collected.

3. She clarifies that DoJ may use the seized classified materials in the intelligence assessment, at the DoJ's discretion, including the FBI.

4. She clarifies that Trump must pay all costs associated with the master.

This expedited ruling does not detail the rules and procedures of the master, which the Court will address at a later date.

Judge Cannon rejected all of the DoJ arguments, holding that even the classified status of documents is not determined by the markings alone, but will be decided by the master, with review and challenge within the court.

She also asserted again that public perception of the proceedings as being fair and impartial was not possible without the master, and was the overriding concern. In that, she has accepted Trump's argument that his circumstances are special and impact the public.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 3.89.0.pdf

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