Judge Cannon has approved the unredacted release of the briefs before the Special Master, as to disputes surrounding the seized documents.

Trump is asserting that 97% of the records seized were declared personal by him. Further he asserts that if they are not personal, then they are covered by executive privilege.

He is circumventing Judge Dearie's objection that records cannot be both personal and privileged, by saying the claims are made in serial, and not in parallel. That is an odd claim to make.

Further Trump still asserts that the records are presumptively privileged, and the burden is on the DoJ to show they are not. He claims that in the absence of an indictment or criminal charges, the DoJ has no right to review the records. Which seems like he is daring them to indict him.

Here is the DoJ brief:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... .182.1.pdf

Here is the Trump brief:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 83.1_1.pdf

Avatar2go wrote:

Judge Cannon has approved the unredacted release of the briefs before the Special Master, as to disputes surrounding the seized documents.

Trump is asserting that 97% of the records seized were declared personal by him. Further he asserts that if they are not personal, then they are covered by executive privilege.

He is circumventing Judge Dearie's objection that records cannot be both personal and privileged, by saying the claims are made in serial, and not in parallel. That is an odd claim to make.

Further Trump still asserts that the records are presumptively privileged, and the burden is on the DoJ to show they are not. He claims that in the absence of an indictment or criminal charges, the DoJ has no right to review the records. Which seems like he is daring them to indict him.

Here is the DoJ brief:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... .182.1.pdf

Here is the Trump brief:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 83.1_1.pdf

How can DOJ (or any department) prove records are freely available by any former president? Wouldn't DOJ have to say "here is why these are privileged records not available to be carted off to Mar-A-Lago"? Wouldn't that be a matter of national security?

seb146 wrote:

How can DOJ (or any department) prove records are freely available by any former president? Wouldn't DOJ have to say "here is why these are privileged records not available to be carted off to Mar-A-Lago"? Wouldn't that be a matter of national security?

Just to clarify terms, the DoJ is claiming the documents are Presidential records which belong to the taxpayers, therefore they must be made available to the executive branch for retention and inspection.

In limited cases, a former President can request they not be made available to the public or other branches (such as Congress), based on privilege. The arbiter of that is the National Archives, which retain the documents. The former President can also bring a civil suit in the Washington DC courts.

Trump is asserting either that they are personal records, by his own declaration, or that they are covered by his executive privilege as former President, also by his own declaration.

Trump is further claiming that the burden is on the DoJ to either prove they are Presidential records, or if not, prove that the DoJ's need to review his personal or privileged records is compelling. Normally that would involve charging him with a crime, for which the records then become evidence.

When the Mar-a-Lago search warrant was issued, that met the probable cause requirement of a crime likely being committed. But because Trump has not been charged, his legal team is using that as leverage with Judge Cannon to deny DoJ access to the records.

That is what led to the appointment of the Special Master, whose job it is to make recommendations to Judge Cannon on the proper disposition if the documents, as to Presidential, personal, or privileged.

This is why I said he's challenging the DoJ to charge him. Which they obviously don't want to do until they can review all the documents.

Special Prosecutor Jack Smith appointed to oversee investigation of Trump in retaining documents at Mar-a-Lago.

Avatar2go wrote:

Special Prosecutor Jack Smith appointed to oversee investigation of Trump in retaining documents at Mar-a-Lago.

There are probably a couple hundred thousand people named Jack Smith in the US. Every one of them will now be in danger of attack by MAGA nut cases!

Avatar2go wrote:

Special Prosecutor Jack Smith appointed to oversee investigation of Trump in retaining documents at Mar-a-Lago.

Notably, he's the former public integrity chief, who's main job was to investigate politicians and other public figures on corruption allegations:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/18/us/p ... trump.html

He also was investigation coordinator in the Office of the Prosecutor at the International Criminal Court in The Hague from 2008 to 2010. In that role, he oversaw high-profile inquiries of foreign government officials and militia members wanted for war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide.

In short, he's made a career of bringing down corrupt politicians.

Vintage wrote:

There are probably a couple hundred thousand people named Jack Smith in the US. Every one of them will now be in danger of attack by MAGA nut cases!

Every "Jack Smith" I have ever know seemed to be in the Witness Protection Program.

Now "Jack Shit",... that's another matter...

ThePointblank wrote:

Notably, he's the former public integrity chief, who's main job was to investigate politicians and other public figures on corruption allegations: He also was investigation coordinator in the Office of the Prosecutor at the International Criminal Court in The Hague from 2008 to 2010. In that role, he oversaw high-profile inquiries of foreign government officials and militia members wanted for war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide. In short, he's made a career of bringing down corrupt politicians.

He should feel right at home investigating DJT...

Trump is trying once again to get the Mar-a-Lago search warrant affidavit unsealed. Since Judge Reinhart declined to do so, he is trying with Judge Cannon, but not clear that she has jurisdiction in that matter.

Trump is claiming that the warrant amounted to rummaging and ransacking of his personal effects, and that the DoJ has no valid claim to secrecy, since they have held press conferences and engaged in leaks regarding his investigation. Also that there is no credible evidence for retaliation against witnesses.

My guess here is that he's going to lose the challenges with the special master as to retention of Presidential records, and is hoping to go after the warrant as a forbidden fruit argument, in an attempt to get those documents back.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... .189.0.pdf

My guess is that he is hoping the remaining votes on the mid terms will be a 'Get out of jail card'.

bennett123 wrote:

My guess is that he is hoping the remaining votes on the mid terms will be a 'Get out of jail card'.

I think that ship sailed with the appointment of the special counsel. That ended his rhetoric about being prosecuted by his opponent.

Once he is charged or indicted, he would have access to the affidavit anyway. He's trying to head that off now, as well as lay claim to the documents, which he will probably lose with the Special Master process.

Things are not going his way in the real world, so he went back to a sympathetic judge asking for help. The DoJ will file an energetic response, then we'll have to see if she will help him out.

Judge Cannon could also overturn Judge Dearie's recommendations, as the Special Master she herself appointed. If she does that, it will be very difficult to regard her rulings as unbiased. Especially if the whole thing is overturned on the pending appeal.

I think this is Trump reading the field and recognizing it's not good for him. If he gets access to the affidavit, there will for sure be a challenge, and that can't be undone by subsequent events.

Trump attorneys encountered pushback from the appellate court today, on the Judge Cannon appointment of the special master.

One of the justices objected to the characterization of the warrant execution as a "raid". Another objected to the protest over the seizure of some personal items, saying that if they were intermingled with government records, that is not the DoJ's fault.

They asked what was different about Trump's case, from any other warrant execution, besides the fact that he's a former President. Trump's team responded that what makes it different, is that Biden's administration authorized it, and Biden is his political opponent. The justices were very skeptical of that argument.

https://news.yahoo.com/appeals-court-pa ... 40726.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/22/politics ... index.html

Avatar2go wrote:

Special Master Judge Dearie has filed his intent with Judge Cannon, to request guidance from the National Archives as to the application of the Presidential Records Act, to the Trump Mar-a-Lago materials.

He has given 3 days for either side to submit briefs of their concerns, and has scheduled a hearing on December 1 to determine the rules for document identification. Although these will be recommendations only, which will have to be approved by Judge Cannon.

Judge Dearie has cancelled the hearing scheduled on December 1. Apparently both sides have agreed to the rules determining document disposition as presidential records. Instead, both sides can submit final spreadsheets listing their disputes, for Judge Dearie to make his recommendations to Judge Cannon by December 16.

In the meantime, the expedited DoJ appeal of Judge Cannon's ruling, and appointment of the special master, continues with no firm date of ruling.

At this point, the Trump legal team may have concluded that it's better not to delay the special master recommendations, and allow their case to complete before Judge Cannon, before the appellate court issues their ruling.

The news media has filed a movant intervenor brief, in conjunction with Trump's motion to unseal the Mar-a-Lago search warrant affidavit. In addition to Judge Cannon unsealing the affidavit for Trump, the media would like it to be publicly released.

Seems like they are rolling the dice here. Their brief is careful to say they have no position on whether Judge Cannon has jurisdiction over a warrant issued by Judge Reinhart.

The DoJ has not yet filed a response to Trump's motion, which is unusual. Perhaps they will take it before Judge Reinhart instead, to assert his jurisdiction over the warrant.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 92.0_1.pdf

It just amazes me that we get months in, and yet another slow roll of what I thought was obvious from the start of this "Special Master' fiasco. As the target of a warrent, you don't get special priviledges, even if you are the president.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/01/politics ... index.html

In a ruling on Thursday, the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals reversed a lower court’s order appointing a so-called special master to sort through thousands of documents found at Trump’s home to determine what should be off limits to investigator.

“The law is clear,” the appeals court wrote. “We cannot write a rule that allows any subject of a search warrant to block government investigations after the execution of the warrant. Nor can we write a rule that allows only former presidents to do so.”

So I guess Trump's lawyers will appeal to the Supreme Court, thus slowing it down more?

Here is a link to the decision:

https://www.scribd.com/document/6116693 ... s-Decision

Also directly viewable here:

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/stat ... rumps-home

Or here:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... ircuit.pdf

The Court has dismantled both Trump's case and Judge Cannon's ruling. Finding them expansive, ungrounded and unjustified under legal precedent.

The Court considered all four conditions of the Richey standard for equitable jurisdiction, which allows the court to step into seizure cases on behalf of a plaintiff, and found that none were met. Even describing the arguments as a "sideshow", which is a stinging rebuke for an appellate court.

Trump will likely appeal to the Supreme Court, but that would probably fail, as there are no grounds for the case to be taken up.

Avatar2go wrote:

Here is a link to the decision:

https://www.scribd.com/document/6116693 ... s-Decision

Also directly viewable here:

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/stat ... rumps-home

Or here:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... ircuit.pdf

The Court has dismantled both Trump's case and Judge Cannon's ruling. Finding them expansive, ungrounded and unjustified under legal precedent.

The Court considered all four conditions of the Richey standard for equitable jurisdiction, which allows the court to step into seizure cases on behalf of a plaintiff, and found that none were met. Even describing the arguments as a "sideshow", which is a stinging rebuke for an appellate court.

Trump will likely appeal to the Supreme Court, but that would probably fail, as there are no grounds for the case to be taken up.

I know these judges like Aileen Cannon get appointed for life, but this rebuke is basically accusing here of violating basic law for the President that appointed her. Can anyone trust Cannon's judgements at all going forward? .

The DoJ has filed for an extension of all relevant deadlines in the Mar-a-Lago case, for 7 days, which is the amount of time before the appellate ruling to vacate & dismiss takes effect.

If Trump is able to obtain a stay or contrary ruling during that time, the DoJ is prepared to resume all activities. If he does not, the case is formally dismissed and all past & future activities are moot.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 94.0_1.pdf

Good take on the whole episode .

https://www.thedailybeast.com/federal-a ... ref=scroll

In Cannon’s case, she believed that power arose from merely being a judge. In Trump’s case, he believed the power arose from merely being a former President. Both were proven wrong today. When our system functions the way it should, then no one, including federal judges and former presidents, get to stand above the law.

Waiting to see what Trump will do now. His team has not responded to DoJ enquiries and he has not posted on social media.

Judge Cannon has damaged her reputation by manufacturing an opening for Trump to pursue his case. I hope it was worth it to her.

I suspect history will conclude that Judge Cannon should have rejected the case as belonging in Judge Reinhart's court, as the issuer of the warrant. Trump could then have appealed Judge Reinhart's decision in the proper appellate channels, and none of this would have occurred.

Instead, she allowed Trump to go court-shopping, and rewarded him for doing so. But ultimately to no end, as higher courts would not tolerate that behavior.

casinterest wrote:

Good take on the whole episode .

https://www.thedailybeast.com/federal-a ... ref=scroll

In Cannon’s case, she believed that power arose from merely being a judge. In Trump’s case, he believed the power arose from merely being a former President. Both were proven wrong today. When our system functions the way it should, then no one, including federal judges and former presidents, get to stand above the law.

Cannon was either ill-suited for the task and phoned in a friend, or she was hoping for a promotion in the future. She's likely shot that wad as any attempts at appointing her to a higher court will be met with fierce resistance in the Senate.

Trump has filed a response in opposition to the DoJ motion to delay proceedings until the appellate court dismissal order takes effect.

The motion is very short, it says only that Trump has very limited time to explore his appeal options, and that his counsel would not be available to discuss the delay until December 6 or after.

So effectively, they are delaying their response to the request for delay.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 95.0_1.pdf

luckyone wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Good take on the whole episode .

https://www.thedailybeast.com/federal-a ... ref=scroll

In Cannon’s case, she believed that power arose from merely being a judge. In Trump’s case, he believed the power arose from merely being a former President. Both were proven wrong today. When our system functions the way it should, then no one, including federal judges and former presidents, get to stand above the law.

Cannon was either ill-suited for the task and phoned in a friend, or she was hoping for a promotion in the future. She's likely shot that wad as any attempts at appointing her to a higher court will be met with fierce resistance in the Senate.

I hope the fallout gets to the roots of the issues with the Federalist society. It is a pay to play political organization that does not have the Constitution or laws of the US as it's main interest

Avatar2go wrote:

Trump has filed a response in opposition to the DoJ motion to delay proceedings until the appellate court dismissal order takes effect.

The motion is very short, it says only that Trump has very limited time to explore his appeal options, and that his counsel would not be available to discuss the delay until December 6 or after.

So effectively, they are delaying their response to the request for delay.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 95.0_1.pdf

Hmmm Trump using all the delay tactics that he can.

Color me surprised

The DoJ has responded to Trump's motion to oppose the requested delay, based on the Trump legal team being preoccupied with the appeal, as nonsensical.

Which it totally was. The delay works to the advantage of the Trump team.

Also, Jack Smith is now formally the respondent to Trump's suit, on behalf of the DoJ.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... .196.0.pdf

Judge Cannon has fully granted the DoJ motion for delay in Trump's lawsuit, to allow the appellate decision to take effect:

1. The government’s response to Plaintiff’s motion to unseal the search-warrant affidavit is extended to and including December 13, 2022.

2. The parties’ response to the News Media’s Joint Motion for Access to Unredacted Search Warrant Affidavit is extended to and including December 21, 2022.

3. The Special Master’s report and recommendation is extended to and including December 23, 2022.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... .196.1.pdf

Two more classified documents have been found in a West Palm Beach storage facility, and turned over to the FBI. This is from a search commissioned by Trump's legal team.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... -rcna60593

The DoJ has moved for contempt proceedings against the Trump legal team, for failing to deliver all the documents requested in the subpoena filed last spring for the Mar-a-Lago documents.

Two more classified documents were turned over yesterday, and the DoJ believes there are more presidential records still in Trump's possession.

The motion is under seal to Judge Howell, who is overseeing the grand jury investigation into Trump's removal of classified materials & presidential records. There is a hearing scheduled for Friday.

Among the issues is that Trump has refused to designate a records custodian, who will sign an affidavit that all records are returned. Trump maintains it's unnecessary.

The last such person was Christina Bobb, who signed an affidavit that was subsequently proved false, resulting in the need for her own counsel. It's very likely that no one will accept that position now.

https://news.yahoo.com/u-justice-dept-a ... 11882.html

Could a disinterested third party judge oversee this? From, say, Japan or Bulgaria or Namibia or Uruguay? I mean, he took the documents when he legally was not supposed to, so that is basic, but his "team" keeps whining about partisan. Why would a judge in Burkina Faso be partisan?

I think this means Trump is finally running out of human shields. We all wondered when that would happen.

His legal team is going to be so encumbered by contempt and sanctions, that they'll have no time to work for him. Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.

The time to appeal the 11th circuit ruling lapsed, and Trump did not file. This means the 11C order dismissing the entire Trump suit and Cannon shenanigans stands. DOJ can resume investigating unopposed.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... inal-probe

Aaron747 wrote:

The time to appeal the 11th circuit ruling lapsed, and Trump did not file. This means the 11C order dismissing the entire Trump suit and Cannon shenanigans stands. DOJ can resume investigating unopposed.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... inal-probe

I’m actually REALLY curious about this. Trump let at least two golden gritting opportunities pass by (appeal to the full 11th and then SCOTUS, with a pre-written fundraising email crying for more money as soon as he was denied).

Avatar2go wrote:

I think this means Trump is finally running out of human shields. We all wondered when that would happen.

His legal team is going to be so encumbered by contempt and sanctions, that they'll have no time to work for him. Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.

I have wondered for a while how Trump manages to keep finding attorneys willing to work for him.
It has become evident a while ago now that not only is he not a good debtor, but defending him involves serious risks to one's legal career, if not more...

Who the heck keeps (or kept) taking him as a client?

Francoflier wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

I think this means Trump is finally running out of human shields. We all wondered when that would happen.

His legal team is going to be so encumbered by contempt and sanctions, that they'll have no time to work for him. Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.

I have wondered for a while how Trump manages to keep finding attorneys willing to work for him.
It has become evident a while ago now that not only is he not a good debtor, but defending him involves serious risks to one's legal career, if not more...

Who the heck keeps (or kept) taking him as a client?

I’m not an attorney. But I work with them often. I work with a lot of good ones and know a lot of good ones. But there’s a personality attracted to the law. And there’s too many lawyers for the number of jobs. I’ve worked with a lot of unscrupulous attorneys who think they have to step on other people to get where they’re going, and they will do just about anything for a buck or advancement.

Maybe that;s what he meant when he said he'd drain the swamp.
Through him a lot of murky attorneys have been retired.

The special master review has been thrown out

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/12/trumps- ... ended.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 852139002/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-tru ... dismissed/

The US Court of Appeals filed the order to dismiss & vacate with Judge Cannon late Friday. She dismissed it this morning and ordered the case closed, including all pending motions and deadlines.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... .199.0.pdf

On Friday, Judge Howell declined to hold Trump in contempt over the Mar-a-Lago records dispute with the DoJ, ruling there was insufficient cause.

She also asked the two sides to resolve the dispute without a custodian of records being assigned, ruling that Trump had complied with an order to conduct additional searches. The DoJ remains skeptical that all documents have been turned over.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/09/politics ... index.html

Avatar2go wrote:

On Friday, Judge Howell declined to hold Trump in contempt over the Mar-a-Lago records dispute with the DoJ, ruling there was insufficient cause.

She also asked the two sides to resolve the dispute without a custodian of records being assigned, ruling that Trump had complied with an order to conduct additional searches. The DoJ remains skeptical that all documents have been turned over.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/09/politics ... index.html

More confidential documents were found in storage, so....

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-tru ... rage-unit/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... classified
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/12 ... -unit.html

seb146 wrote:

More confidential documents were found in storage, so....

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-tru ... rage-unit/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... classified
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/12 ... -unit.html

Those documents are what triggered the motion for contempt by the DoJ. But Judge Howell ruled that Trump had duly turned over what was found.

This is really about leverage. The DoJ wants a custodian of records assigned, as that person can be held legally responsible if they falsely state that all records are turned over. This is what happened with Christina Bobb, when she signed the Mar-a-Lago affidavit.

By avoiding that role, there is no one directly accountable for the records in the Trump organization, which leaves open the possibility that Trump could be concealing records again.

Judge Howell seems inclined to trust Trump, based on hiring a third party to carry out the search. But the DoJ doesn't trust him.

More documents have been found by Trump attorneys, some with classified markings.

Also DoJ was informed that documents found in December were scanned and copied to a thumb drive and laptop owned by a Save America PAC staffer. Those devices sre now turned over to the FBI.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/10/politics ... index.html

The DoJ is trying to compel additional testimony from Trump attorney Evan Corcoran, via the crime/fraud exemption to attorney-client privilege. Corcoran was one of the signees to the affidavit claiming no more ducuments were located at Mar-a-Lago, prior to the search warrant being issued. The request must be approved by Judge Howell.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/1 ... y-00082932

Avatar2go wrote:

More documents have been found by Trump attorneys, some with classified markings.

Also DoJ was informed that documents found in December were scanned and copied to a thumb drive and laptop owned by a Save America PAC staffer. Those devices sre now turned over to the FBI.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/10/politics ... index.html

So "his emails"? A folder marked "classified" was also used by the former guy to cover the glow of a bedside telephone

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... -rcna70387
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... 234678744/
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-u ... yer-2023-2

I am wondering what happened to the documents inside the folder used as a lamp shade? Office supply stores have file folders on sale right now, so shelling out $4.99 (plus tax in some locations) would be too much to ask?

Judge Howell has ruled that the crime-fraud exception to attorney-client privilege has been met, for Trump attorney Evan Corcoran. He will be compelled to testify before the grand jury regarding the disposition of Mar-a-Lago documents.

He was a signatory to the affidavit claiming all relevant documents were returned to the National Archives. The other signatory, Christina Bobb, is cooperating with the DoJ, and made no claim of privilege.

Judge Howell's term as Chief Judge is up today, so the case will be assigned to another judge within the DC district. This is her last ruling. The next judge may be the new chief judge, who is also an Obama appointee.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/17/politics ... index.html

Trump has appealed Judge Howell's ruling that Trump's attorney Evan Corcoran must testify and turn over documents about his legal advice to Trump on the Mar-a-Lago classified documents.

It now appears that the DoJ is probing whether Trump lied to his attorneys about the documents, or if the attorneys were complicit. That implies the DoJ feels that a crime was committed in withholding the documents.

Christina Bobb has openly said that she was told the documents had been returned, when she signed the affidavit as document custodian.

So we will see if Trump now sacrifices Corcoran to protect himself, as he has routinely done with his other attorneys.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... documents/

Wow, that was fast! The appeals court ruled against Trump in less than 24 hours. They required motions to be submitted by 6 am this morning. I think that's an indication that they saw the appeal as frivolous.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/22/us/p ... ation.html

Hopefully Trump will soon reach Alex Jones levels of "the judicial system is sick of listening to you whine."

I almost wish this would roll forward quicker than the hush money case, as it involves official actions, which are less susceptible to the GOP defense of persecution.

Avatar2go wrote:

I almost wish this would roll forward quicker than the hush money case, as it involves official actions, which are less susceptible to the GOP defense of persecution.

I think this issue is going to cause problems for Trump as it would reveal that he can't be trusted with Top Secret Documents or the handling fo them, It would put many people in a bind voting for a man that may try to profit off of America's secrets. I think he raised the Stormy issue to hide this one under the covers, and to fund raise off of a mere misallocation of over a hundred thousand dollars to buy silence for sex.

casinterest wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

I almost wish this would roll forward quicker than the hush money case, as it involves official actions, which are less susceptible to the GOP defense of persecution.

I think this issue is going to cause problems for Trump as it would reveal that he can't be trusted with Top Secret Documents or the handling fo them, It would put many people in a bind voting for a man that may try to profit off of America's secrets. I think he raised the Stormy issue to hide this one under the covers, and to fund raise off of a mere misallocation of over a hundred thousand dollars to buy silence for sex.

I am sure he and his "legal team" will use the "but everyone does it" defense and point to Pence and Biden who voluntarily gave back documents.

seb146 wrote:

I am sure he and his "legal team" will use the "but everyone does it" defense and point to Pence and Biden who voluntarily gave back documents.

To avoid that, I think the DoJ will focus on the false affidavit rather than just possession of the documents. That is what differentiates the cases.

And that is why they needed to pierce attorney-client privilege. They need to know if Trump deceived his attorneys, if they deceived him, or if they both were complicit together in the falsehood.

My best guess is that Trump will throw his attorneys under the bus, as that is what he has always done in the past. As soon as they realize they are facing jail, they will implicate him and he will disavow them publicly. That is the general pattern.

Pretty much all of his attorneys have wound up being sanctioned, disbarred, or jailed. While he personally has avoided the consequences each time.

I hope Jack Smith is able to break that pattern. Trump needs to be off the political stage entirely.

His attorneys have now moved to disqualify the Georgia DA and block the grand jury consideration of election tampering claims, on the grounds that they are purely political and lack merit. That is another standard Trump tactic, to try to discredit the prosecution before charges are brought. He tries to pre-program the public perception in his favor.

casinterest wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

I almost wish this would roll forward quicker than the hush money case, as it involves official actions, which are less susceptible to the GOP defense of persecution.

I think this issue is going to cause problems for Trump as it would reveal that he can't be trusted with Top Secret Documents or the handling fo them, It would put many people in a bind voting for a man that may try to profit off of America's secrets. I think he raised the Stormy issue to hide this one under the covers, and to fund raise off of a mere misallocation of over a hundred thousand dollars to buy silence for sex.

95% of America votes on vibe. Economic vibe, political affiliation vibe, what their friend Dave vibed them to do. Do you really think they're going to care about the documents in 18 months?

This is the problem with Trump. Since about 2018 he's been living in his own little media universe, flocked to by millions of people who are becoming increasingly politically engaged because he's a populist who talks like someone they know. If you listen to one of his speeches now (oh god don't do it, but I did a few weeks ago), unless you watch OAN and Newsmax all day, you have no idea what he's even talking about!

Conservativism is dead. Trump jumped on its face, deposited the egg, and the chestburster ruined the spaghetti dinner. This is something very new - online is accelerating it - but I think trying to ascribe the logic of 2008, 2012, or 2016, about attracting the good, responsible candidate, and hoping people realize he is irresponsible, is a real trap.

On anyone else - Lt. Marco, Clappy Bush, Meatball Ron, Lyin' Ted - I think you've got some real damage from something like this, but not on Teflon Don. It horrifies me to type this, but he is a unique, transformational figure in American politics. It's probably not going to be the same anymore.