Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Avatar2go wrote:Judge Cannon has approved the unredacted release of the briefs before the Special Master, as to disputes surrounding the seized documents.
Trump is asserting that 97% of the records seized were declared personal by him. Further he asserts that if they are not personal, then they are covered by executive privilege.
He is circumventing Judge Dearie's objection that records cannot be both personal and privileged, by saying the claims are made in serial, and not in parallel. That is an odd claim to make.
Further Trump still asserts that the records are presumptively privileged, and the burden is on the DoJ to show they are not. He claims that in the absence of an indictment or criminal charges, the DoJ has no right to review the records. Which seems like he is daring them to indict him.
Here is the DoJ brief:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... .182.1.pdf
Here is the Trump brief:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 83.1_1.pdf
seb146 wrote:
How can DOJ (or any department) prove records are freely available by any former president? Wouldn't DOJ have to say "here is why these are privileged records not available to be carted off to Mar-A-Lago"? Wouldn't that be a matter of national security?
Avatar2go wrote:There are probably a couple hundred thousand people named Jack Smith in the US. Every one of them will now be in danger of attack by MAGA nut cases!Special Prosecutor Jack Smith appointed to oversee investigation of Trump in retaining documents at Mar-a-Lago.
Avatar2go wrote:Special Prosecutor Jack Smith appointed to oversee investigation of Trump in retaining documents at Mar-a-Lago.
Vintage wrote:There are probably a couple hundred thousand people named Jack Smith in the US. Every one of them will now be in danger of attack by MAGA nut cases!
ThePointblank wrote:Notably, he's the former public integrity chief, who's main job was to investigate politicians and other public figures on corruption allegations: He also was investigation coordinator in the Office of the Prosecutor at the International Criminal Court in The Hague from 2008 to 2010. In that role, he oversaw high-profile inquiries of foreign government officials and militia members wanted for war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide. In short, he's made a career of bringing down corrupt politicians.
bennett123 wrote:My guess is that he is hoping the remaining votes on the mid terms will be a 'Get out of jail card'.
Avatar2go wrote:Special Master Judge Dearie has filed his intent with Judge Cannon, to request guidance from the National Archives as to the application of the Presidential Records Act, to the Trump Mar-a-Lago materials.
He has given 3 days for either side to submit briefs of their concerns, and has scheduled a hearing on December 1 to determine the rules for document identification. Although these will be recommendations only, which will have to be approved by Judge Cannon.
In a ruling on Thursday, the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals reversed a lower court’s order appointing a so-called special master to sort through thousands of documents found at Trump’s home to determine what should be off limits to investigator.
“The law is clear,” the appeals court wrote. “We cannot write a rule that allows any subject of a search warrant to block government investigations after the execution of the warrant. Nor can we write a rule that allows only former presidents to do so.”
Avatar2go wrote:Here is a link to the decision:
https://www.scribd.com/document/6116693 ... s-Decision
Also directly viewable here:
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/stat ... rumps-home
Or here:
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... ircuit.pdf
The Court has dismantled both Trump's case and Judge Cannon's ruling. Finding them expansive, ungrounded and unjustified under legal precedent.
The Court considered all four conditions of the Richey standard for equitable jurisdiction, which allows the court to step into seizure cases on behalf of a plaintiff, and found that none were met. Even describing the arguments as a "sideshow", which is a stinging rebuke for an appellate court.
Trump will likely appeal to the Supreme Court, but that would probably fail, as there are no grounds for the case to be taken up.
In Cannon’s case, she believed that power arose from merely being a judge. In Trump’s case, he believed the power arose from merely being a former President. Both were proven wrong today. When our system functions the way it should, then no one, including federal judges and former presidents, get to stand above the law.
casinterest wrote:Good take on the whole episode .
https://www.thedailybeast.com/federal-a ... ref=scrollIn Cannon’s case, she believed that power arose from merely being a judge. In Trump’s case, he believed the power arose from merely being a former President. Both were proven wrong today. When our system functions the way it should, then no one, including federal judges and former presidents, get to stand above the law.
luckyone wrote:casinterest wrote:Good take on the whole episode .
https://www.thedailybeast.com/federal-a ... ref=scrollIn Cannon’s case, she believed that power arose from merely being a judge. In Trump’s case, he believed the power arose from merely being a former President. Both were proven wrong today. When our system functions the way it should, then no one, including federal judges and former presidents, get to stand above the law.
Cannon was either ill-suited for the task and phoned in a friend, or she was hoping for a promotion in the future. She's likely shot that wad as any attempts at appointing her to a higher court will be met with fierce resistance in the Senate.
Avatar2go wrote:Trump has filed a response in opposition to the DoJ motion to delay proceedings until the appellate court dismissal order takes effect.
The motion is very short, it says only that Trump has very limited time to explore his appeal options, and that his counsel would not be available to discuss the delay until December 6 or after.
So effectively, they are delaying their response to the request for delay.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 95.0_1.pdf
Aaron747 wrote:The time to appeal the 11th circuit ruling lapsed, and Trump did not file. This means the 11C order dismissing the entire Trump suit and Cannon shenanigans stands. DOJ can resume investigating unopposed.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... inal-probe
Avatar2go wrote:I think this means Trump is finally running out of human shields. We all wondered when that would happen.
His legal team is going to be so encumbered by contempt and sanctions, that they'll have no time to work for him. Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.
Francoflier wrote:Avatar2go wrote:I think this means Trump is finally running out of human shields. We all wondered when that would happen.
His legal team is going to be so encumbered by contempt and sanctions, that they'll have no time to work for him. Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.
I have wondered for a while how Trump manages to keep finding attorneys willing to work for him.
It has become evident a while ago now that not only is he not a good debtor, but defending him involves serious risks to one's legal career, if not more...
Who the heck keeps (or kept) taking him as a client?
Avatar2go wrote:On Friday, Judge Howell declined to hold Trump in contempt over the Mar-a-Lago records dispute with the DoJ, ruling there was insufficient cause.
She also asked the two sides to resolve the dispute without a custodian of records being assigned, ruling that Trump had complied with an order to conduct additional searches. The DoJ remains skeptical that all documents have been turned over.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/09/politics ... index.html
seb146 wrote:
More confidential documents were found in storage, so....
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-tru ... rage-unit/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... classified
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/12 ... -unit.html
Avatar2go wrote:More documents have been found by Trump attorneys, some with classified markings.
Also DoJ was informed that documents found in December were scanned and copied to a thumb drive and laptop owned by a Save America PAC staffer. Those devices sre now turned over to the FBI.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/10/politics ... index.html
Avatar2go wrote:I almost wish this would roll forward quicker than the hush money case, as it involves official actions, which are less susceptible to the GOP defense of persecution.
casinterest wrote:Avatar2go wrote:I almost wish this would roll forward quicker than the hush money case, as it involves official actions, which are less susceptible to the GOP defense of persecution.
I think this issue is going to cause problems for Trump as it would reveal that he can't be trusted with Top Secret Documents or the handling fo them, It would put many people in a bind voting for a man that may try to profit off of America's secrets. I think he raised the Stormy issue to hide this one under the covers, and to fund raise off of a mere misallocation of over a hundred thousand dollars to buy silence for sex.
seb146 wrote:I am sure he and his "legal team" will use the "but everyone does it" defense and point to Pence and Biden who voluntarily gave back documents.
casinterest wrote:Avatar2go wrote:I almost wish this would roll forward quicker than the hush money case, as it involves official actions, which are less susceptible to the GOP defense of persecution.
I think this issue is going to cause problems for Trump as it would reveal that he can't be trusted with Top Secret Documents or the handling fo them, It would put many people in a bind voting for a man that may try to profit off of America's secrets. I think he raised the Stormy issue to hide this one under the covers, and to fund raise off of a mere misallocation of over a hundred thousand dollars to buy silence for sex.