Avatar2go wrote:

Redd wrote:

Well there's the not-her-husband dude licking or kissing her neck. If you don't consider that cheating, I have the world's biggest cuckold badge to send you.

You've already been informed as to the true nature of what happened. Here is confirmation from Olavi.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/le ... b1d44720d9

You can keep pushing the lie here, or you can accept the truth. Your call.

Like I said at the top, some are really threatened by the idea of a successful leader, who is young, female, not a servile one who cannot make choices about reproductive health, leading a country that in the metrics I posted further up is near or at the top in all areas.

What the world needs is more decent, God-fearing and proper leaders who know how to conduct themselves.

Maybe some of those perfect men could volunteer. You know, the ones that cheat on their wives, limit personal freedoms, take huge bribes, and most importantly, vehemently oppose gay anything before being caught with a male escort.

M564038 wrote:

The video shows a drunk guy being gently pushed aside, so it’s hard to tell what you’re on about.
There seem to be a certain fixation on other people’s sex life, though.

Redd wrote:

M564038 wrote:

What is she doing wrong in the Video, Redd?

Well there's the not-her-husband dude licking or kissing her neck. If you don't consider that cheating, I have the world's biggest cuckold badge to send you.

Is that what you're seeing? Oh my.

GDB wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

Redd wrote:

Well there's the not-her-husband dude licking or kissing her neck. If you don't consider that cheating, I have the world's biggest cuckold badge to send you.

You've already been informed as to the true nature of what happened. Here is confirmation from Olavi.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/le ... b1d44720d9

You can keep pushing the lie here, or you can accept the truth. Your call.

Like I said at the top, some are really threatened by the idea of a successful leader, who is young, female, not a servile one who cannot make choices about reproductive health, leading a country that in the metrics I posted further up is near or at the top in all areas.

Yeah, so much threatened...

Avatar2go wrote:

Redd wrote:

Well there's the not-her-husband dude licking or kissing her neck. If you don't consider that cheating, I have the world's biggest cuckold badge to send you.

You've already been informed as to the true nature of what happened. Here is confirmation from Olavi.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/le ... b1d44720d9

You can keep pushing the lie here, or you can accept the truth. Your call.

I've been informed? lol. I have eyes, and there's a video. There was a not-her-husband, there was a not-her-husband kissing her neck, and a very pleased Finnish Prime Minister.

I've been 'informed'.... That's sweet, thanks.

Redd wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

Redd wrote:

Well there's the not-her-husband dude licking or kissing her neck. If you don't consider that cheating, I have the world's biggest cuckold badge to send you.

You've already been informed as to the true nature of what happened. Here is confirmation from Olavi.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/le ... b1d44720d9

You can keep pushing the lie here, or you can accept the truth. Your call.

I've been informed? lol. I have eyes, and there's a video. There was a not-her-husband, there was a not-her-husband kissing her neck, and a very pleased Finnish Prime Minister.

I've been 'informed'.... That's sweet, thanks.

OMG, she'd be like the first politician to ever have an affair. The humanity.

To all would be political figures and world leaders. Hence forth, there shall be no more dancing, you must be "professional" at all times and you are to have no friends or acquaintances giving you a kiss as that is now deemed "cheating".

Redd wrote:

I've been informed? lol. I have eyes, and there's a video. There was a not-her-husband, there was a not-her-husband kissing her neck, and a very pleased Finnish Prime Minister.

I've been 'informed'.... That's sweet, thanks.

Isn't it acceptable in other cultures to take a lover while one is married? Or, perhaps she and her husband have an "arrangement" and he is fine with it? There are any number of reasons why she was dancing with this other man. Watching the video, I think the music may have been very loud and he was talking to her so she could hear him? Any number of reasons.

Why is she not allowed to have a private life? IIRC, another former world leader was on his third marriage but that was not an issue because it was his personal life. Another former world leader was on his second wife but that was not an issue because that was his personal life.

Her drug test came back negative.
https://www.politico.eu/article/sanna-m ... for-drugs/

Best regards,
Jonas

Redd wrote:

I've been informed? lol. I have eyes, and there's a video. There was a not-her-husband, there was a not-her-husband kissing her neck, and a very pleased Finnish Prime Minister.

I've been 'informed'.... That's sweet, thanks.

That she was "pleased" is your assumption, and is not supported by her actions in giving him the forearm. It's an attempt to place the blame on the woman for the man's actions, and is misogynistic in intent.

I explained why this is in a previous post that was deleted, so won't repeat it here. But I will say that this attitude inflicts a lot of damage to women around the world.

Avatar2go wrote:

Redd wrote:

I've been informed? lol. I have eyes, and there's a video. There was a not-her-husband, there was a not-her-husband kissing her neck, and a very pleased Finnish Prime Minister.

I've been 'informed'.... That's sweet, thanks.

That she was "pleased" is your assumption, and is not supported by her actions in giving him the forearm. It's an attempt to place the blame on the woman for the man's actions, and is misogynistic in intent.

I explained why this is in a previous post that was deleted, so won't repeat it here. But I will say that this attitude inflicts a lot of damage to women around the world.

It also doesn't matter in the slightest. "Politician has affair" isn't news. Just ask Boris Johnson, Bill Clinton, any one of a few dozen members of the US Congress, or such men who are so reasoned and moderate in their carnal appetites as Silvio Berlusconi or Dominque Strauss-Kahn.

Except, of course, when said politician is in her 30s, female, and many men find her attractive. Then suddenly judging her sexuality becomes of public interest. It's weird as hell. Yes, I'd be pissed off if I were married to her and saw that video. But I'm not, so I can't see why the hell I'd care.

IADCA wrote:

It also doesn't matter in the slightest. "Politician has affair" isn't news. Just ask Boris Johnson, Bill Clinton, any one of a few dozen members of the US Congress, or such men who are so reasoned and moderate in their carnal appetites as Silvio Berlusconi or Dominque Strauss-Kahn.

Except, of course, when said politician is in her 30s, female, and many men find her attractive. Then suddenly judging her sexuality becomes of public interest. It's weird as hell. Yes, I'd be pissed off if I were married to her and saw that video. But I'm not, so I can't see why the hell I'd care.

Agreed on all counts, my basic point is that the root cause of the double standard, and the singling out of the woman for the bad behavior by men, is misogyny. There is not a word about Olavi, except to imply they are having an affair, which for him would be a "score". The focus is on the woman because she is automatically perceived to be at fault. Even for actions that are uninvited.

FGITD wrote:

What the world needs is more decent, God-fearing and proper leaders who know how to conduct themselves..

Decent - yes
Proper - yes
God fearing? - crikey no.

Well lucky the singer she was dancing with wasn't the singer Kusela.
It would have been a more fishy affair.

https://youtu.be/WrxTF3p_e4Y

Given that Boris has admitted that he doesn't know how many offspring he has and Trump is a well documented octopus and, taking into account what is nowadays described as dancing, I do not see anything wrong in her behaviour, or any reason to supsect inapproporate behaviour.

ACDC8 wrote:

To all would be political figures and world leaders. Hence forth, there shall be no more dancing

I think many political leaders regret being recorded dancing. It often leads to embarrassing videos that live forever on the Internet. Marin herself has said that she regrets her dancing video having become public.

PhilBy wrote:

Given that Boris has admitted that he doesn't know how many offspring he has and Trump is a well documented octopus and, taking into account what is nowadays described as dancing, I do not see anything wrong in her behaviour, or any reason to supsect inapproporate behaviour.

Wrong gender for those who falsely judged her, she is their nightmare. A woman who is successful, knows her own mind, leading a nation that prides itself on education, three GQP bogeymen.

AeroVega wrote:

I think many political leaders regret being recorded dancing. It often leads to embarrassing videos that live forever on the Internet. Marin herself has said that she regrets her dancing video having become public.

Its not like she's doing the Elaine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7ubgQX2Ay8

It looks like there is a definite media campaign to get her one way or the other:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/onli ... f5fdac7ab5

cpd wrote:

It looks like there is a definite media campaign to get her one way or the other:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/onli ... f5fdac7ab5

From the link

Finland’s ‘party PM’ Sanna Marin apologises for ‘inappropriate’ pic of two topless women kissing at her official residence

For those arguing that this is all normal I wonder when was the last time such events took place at the White House or Downing Street 10

AeroVega wrote:

For those arguing that this is all normal I wonder when was the last time such events took place at the White House or Downing Street 10

This was at the "seaside residence", so a better comparison would be Camp David, not the White House.
The Finnish culture has saunas as a fixture of society, so nudity isn't a big deal there. In any event, there was no nudity in the picture.

Your post comes of as more misogyny IMO.

AeroVega wrote:

cpd wrote:

It looks like there is a definite media campaign to get her one way or the other:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/onli ... f5fdac7ab5

From the link

Finland’s ‘party PM’ Sanna Marin apologises for ‘inappropriate’ pic of two topless women kissing at her official residence

For those arguing that this is all normal I wonder when was the last time such events took place at the White House or Downing Street 10

Oh how terrible. Downing Street you say?
Under the current but departing sleazeball it was sleaze of the important kind, ground zero.
Large scale lockdown lawbreaking, illegal donations for gaudy, hugely expensive decorations. Tip of the iceberg knowing Johnson.
So why would anyone care about what two consenting adults are doing?

She should have said she's for freeing the nipple. Notice noone complaining about topless men.

GDB wrote:

AeroVega wrote:

cpd wrote:

It looks like there is a definite media campaign to get her one way or the other:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/onli ... f5fdac7ab5

From the link

Finland’s ‘party PM’ Sanna Marin apologises for ‘inappropriate’ pic of two topless women kissing at her official residence

For those arguing that this is all normal I wonder when was the last time such events took place at the White House or Downing Street 10

Oh how terrible. Downing Street you say?
Under the current but departing sleazeball it was sleaze of the important kind, ground zero.
Large scale lockdown lawbreaking, illegal donations for gaudy, hugely expensive decorations. Tip of the iceberg knowing Johnson.

Totally different situation. Nobody came to Johnson's defense saying his behaviour was normal.

GDB wrote:

So why would anyone care about what two consenting adults are doing?

There is a difference between doing something in private and doing something in public, at the official prime minister's residence, and letting yourself be photographed doing it. Of course it was not Marin in that picture, kissing another woman bare-breasted while letting yourself be photographed, but I guess you would have been perfectly OK with that as well.

In truth, are you sure you can't find something "fishy" in photograph at the US White House, done by visitors, that had nothing to do with the president ?

AeroVega wrote:

GDB wrote:

AeroVega wrote:

From the link


For those arguing that this is all normal I wonder when was the last time such events took place at the White House or Downing Street 10

Oh how terrible. Downing Street you say?
Under the current but departing sleazeball it was sleaze of the important kind, ground zero.
Large scale lockdown lawbreaking, illegal donations for gaudy, hugely expensive decorations. Tip of the iceberg knowing Johnson.

Totally different situation. Nobody came to Johnson's defense saying his behaviour was normal.

GDB wrote:

So why would anyone care about what two consenting adults are doing?

There is a difference between doing something in private and doing something in public, at the official prime minister's residence, and letting yourself be photographed doing it. Of course it was not Marin in that picture, kissing another woman bare-breasted while letting yourself be photographed, but I guess you would have been perfectly OK with that as well.

Wrong. Plenty did, most of his government and MP’s, until it became too much, the then head of the Metropolitan Police (old university friend) had to have covered it up, another notch for Cover Up Cressida.
A majority of the nasty selfish old git’s, otherwise known as the 160,000 members of the Tory Party, who don’t want him to leave.

Given the circumstances, yes I think actual lawbreaking by those who made the same laws IS more important than some not illegal stuff between consenting adults.

AeroVega wrote:

GDB wrote:

AeroVega wrote:

From the link


For those arguing that this is all normal I wonder when was the last time such events took place at the White House or Downing Street 10

Oh how terrible. Downing Street you say?
Under the current but departing sleazeball it was sleaze of the important kind, ground zero.
Large scale lockdown lawbreaking, illegal donations for gaudy, hugely expensive decorations. Tip of the iceberg knowing Johnson.

GDB wrote:

So why would anyone care about what two consenting adults are doing?

There is a difference between doing something in private and doing something in public, at the official prime minister's residence, and letting yourself be photographed doing it. Of course it was not Marin in that picture, kissing another woman bare-breasted while letting yourself be photographed, but I guess you would have been perfectly OK with that as well.

Have you actually been to a sauna in Finland?

Usually gender separated but naked with a towel at most to cover you up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_sauna

Even a wiki picture has, shock horror, 2 women hitting themselves naked with birch branches.

Yes, stupid to take photos - but even the Parliament House has got a sauna, so you're more than likely to see naked politicians together there!

P.S. Best type of sauna is a wood stove one in my opinion.

AeroVega wrote:

GDB wrote:

AeroVega wrote:

From the link


For those arguing that this is all normal I wonder when was the last time such events took place at the White House or Downing Street 10

Oh how terrible. Downing Street you say?
Under the current but departing sleazeball it was sleaze of the important kind, ground zero.
Large scale lockdown lawbreaking, illegal donations for gaudy, hugely expensive decorations. Tip of the iceberg knowing Johnson.

Totally different situation. Nobody came to Johnson's defense saying his behaviour was normal.

GDB wrote:

So why would anyone care about what two consenting adults are doing?

There is a difference between doing something in private and doing something in public, at the official prime minister's residence, and letting yourself be photographed doing it. Of course it was not Marin in that picture, kissing another woman bare-breasted while letting yourself be photographed, but I guess you would have been perfectly OK with that as well.

I would have been perfectly OK with that. Better than the downplayed “grab them by the …..” statement from the orange man

marcelh wrote:

AeroVega wrote:

GDB wrote:

Oh how terrible. Downing Street you say?
Under the current but departing sleazeball it was sleaze of the important kind, ground zero.
Large scale lockdown lawbreaking, illegal donations for gaudy, hugely expensive decorations. Tip of the iceberg knowing Johnson.

Totally different situation. Nobody came to Johnson's defense saying his behaviour was normal.

GDB wrote:

So why would anyone care about what two consenting adults are doing?

There is a difference between doing something in private and doing something in public, at the official prime minister's residence, and letting yourself be photographed doing it. Of course it was not Marin in that picture, kissing another woman bare-breasted while letting yourself be photographed, but I guess you would have been perfectly OK with that as well.

I would have been perfectly OK with that. Better than the downplayed “grab them by the …..” statement from the orange man

Or ‘accidentally’ walking in on teenage models at the creepy beauty contests he was staging. More than once. Admitted he fancied his daughter though that would play well in some states. Like his buddy Roy Moore, a middle aged man hanging around shopping malls perving on the teen girls
Some men are so insecure about women who are not subservient, seen it on this thread.

AeroVega wrote:

Totally different situation. Nobody came to Johnson's defense saying his behaviour was normal.

Say what?

Apart from the vast majority of Conservative MPs and the right-wing press and plenty of Tory voters questioned in the street? Apart from all of them? The man stood up in Parliament and lied and said he'd done nothing wrong and all the Tory MPs cheered him.

marcelh wrote:

AeroVega wrote:

GDB wrote:

Oh how terrible. Downing Street you say?
Under the current but departing sleazeball it was sleaze of the important kind, ground zero.
Large scale lockdown lawbreaking, illegal donations for gaudy, hugely expensive decorations. Tip of the iceberg knowing Johnson.

Totally different situation. Nobody came to Johnson's defense saying his behaviour was normal.

GDB wrote:

So why would anyone care about what two consenting adults are doing?

There is a difference between doing something in private and doing something in public, at the official prime minister's residence, and letting yourself be photographed doing it. Of course it was not Marin in that picture, kissing another woman bare-breasted while letting yourself be photographed, but I guess you would have been perfectly OK with that as well.

I would have been perfectly OK with that. Better than the downplayed “grab them by the …..” statement from the orange man

That's an honest answer at least. I'm 100% sure that if Donald Trump or Boris Johnson had given a party in the backyard of the White House or Downing Street 10 where two bear-breasted women would let themselves be photographed while kissing this forum would be too small for the outrage.

ReverseFlow wrote:

Have you actually been to a sauna in Finland?

Yes, plenty of times. And it has always been a completely a-sexual affair. Not comparable to what happened at Kesäranta at all.

AeroVega wrote:

ReverseFlow wrote:

Have you actually been to a sauna in Finland?

Yes, plenty of times. And it has always been a completely a-sexual affair. Not comparable to what happened at Kesäranta at all.

So two women kissing is sexual? OK…….

AeroVega wrote:

There is a difference between doing something in private and doing something in public, at the official prime minister's residence, and letting yourself be photographed doing it.

I am curious about how you let yourself be photographed. At a party, do you announce that it is permissible to take photographs of you? That seems to me to be clear consent. Without that I do not see how you are willingly letting yourself be photographed. Photographs/videos taken without consent may offend the object of the same, so to me photos/videos of someone that are published without their consent are intrusions into their privacy.

AeroVega wrote:

marcelh wrote:

AeroVega wrote:

Totally different situation. Nobody came to Johnson's defense saying his behaviour was normal.



There is a difference between doing something in private and doing something in public, at the official prime minister's residence, and letting yourself be photographed doing it. Of course it was not Marin in that picture, kissing another woman bare-breasted while letting yourself be photographed, but I guess you would have been perfectly OK with that as well.

I would have been perfectly OK with that. Better than the downplayed “grab them by the …..” statement from the orange man

That's an honest answer at least. I'm 100% sure that if Donald Trump or Boris Johnson had given a party in the backyard of the White House or Downing Street 10 where two bear-breasted women would let themselves be photographed while kissing this forum would be too small for the outrage.

I don’t get your point and you also don’t seem to know what has been revealed so far about No.10 Sleaze Street.
Women might have kept their tops on but on at least one occasion a party (which under COVID restrictions THEY made law) was therefore illegal, did involve drunken brawling, broken garden furniture. Still, I guess a massive middle fingered salute to a country that lost 200,000 is fine as long as tits were kept in. Just the most egregious example of multiple illegal gatherings.
As to the other attempts to make this into a scandal, maybe others, especially in politics, should agree to this, put up and shut up:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ld-leaders

(The columnist does not count at least one abortion he made his Secretary pay for, presumably telling her to go private for secrecy).

From the picture, it appeared that the two women momentarily pulled up their shirts and kissed, covering their breasts with a sign and their hands. That seems more like a stunt or a joke for the photo op, than some form of debauchery.

Tasteless perhaps, and Marin apologized for it. But hardly the first time young women have flashed their breasts at a party.

For anyone offended by this, I strongly advise not attending Mardi Gras in the US, for which flashing is a staple activity.

Avatar2go wrote:

Tasteless perhaps, and Marin apologized for it.

Its unfortunate that she apologized for it, people need to start standing up to the folks who look for everything and anything to be offended by. The more we apologize, the more they look to be offended.

Avatar2go wrote:

But hardly the first time young women have flashed their breasts at a party.

God, I haven't been to a party like that in years, sigh

AeroVega wrote:

I'm 100% sure that if Donald Trump or Boris Johnson had given a party in the backyard of the White House or Downing Street 10 where two bear-breasted women would let themselves be photographed while kissing this forum would be too small for the outrage.

Why would anyone be outraged by seeing bear breasts?

Source: https://image.shutterstock.com/image-ph ... 825563.jpg

[twoid][/twoid]

AeroVega wrote:

ReverseFlow wrote:

Have you actually been to a sauna in Finland?

Yes, plenty of times. And it has always been a completely a-sexual affair. Not comparable to what happened at Kesäranta at all.

Even accepting that it was - I haven't even looked at the photos, so I genuinely don't know - what is the objection here? Adults who aren't the PM engaging in low-grade consensual sexual acts at an official residence of the PM, or being photographed doing it?

IADCA wrote:

Even accepting that it was - I haven't even looked at the photos, so I genuinely don't know - what is the objection here? Adults who aren't the PM engaging in low-grade consensual sexual acts at an official residence of the PM, or being photographed doing it?

For me it is both. Marin and one of the models involved have now both apologized so it seems they themselves at least understand.

AeroVega wrote:

IADCA wrote:

Even accepting that it was - I haven't even looked at the photos, so I genuinely don't know - what is the objection here? Adults who aren't the PM engaging in low-grade consensual sexual acts at an official residence of the PM, or being photographed doing it?

For me it is both. Marin and one of the models involved have now both apologized so it seems they themselves at least understand.

The second sentence is entirely irrelevant to my question, but thank you for answering it in the first. For me the inappropriate part was that it was photographed, which appears to be what Marin actually apologized for.

IADCA wrote:

For me the inappropriate part was that it was photographed, which appears to be what Marin actually apologized for.

I see. That's pretty weak, though. If you think a photograph doesn't show anything wrong, then why apologize for it?

AeroVega wrote:

IADCA wrote:

For me the inappropriate part was that it was photographed, which appears to be what Marin actually apologized for.

I see. That's pretty weak, though. If you think a photograph doesn't show anything wrong, then why apologize for it?

To please all those people who are “offended” by it?

AeroVega wrote:

IADCA wrote:

For me the inappropriate part was that it was photographed, which appears to be what Marin actually apologized for.

I see. That's pretty weak, though. If you think a photograph doesn't show anything wrong, then why apologize for it?

Because certain things are fine when they remain behind closed doors, but not when they become public. For example, which is more apology-worthy: a politician masturbating in their own home, or a politician masturbating in their own home and then putting photos of it on the internet?

IADCA wrote:

For example, which is more apology-worthy: a politician masturbating in their own home, or a politician masturbating in their own home and then putting photos of it on the internet?

That analogy would be closer if you had said a politician letting himself be photographed masturbating at a party at the prime minister's residence.

AeroVega wrote:

IADCA wrote:

For example, which is more apology-worthy: a politician masturbating in their own home, or a politician masturbating in their own home and then putting photos of it on the internet?

That analogy would be closer if you had said a politician letting himself be photographed masturbating at a party at the prime minister's residence.

No. First, you didn't answer the question. Second, your analogy is worse, not better. There is no politician in the photograph for which Marin apologized.

A closer analogy would be, in the form of a question that I am requesting you answer: "Which of these requires an apology from the politician: a friend of a politician masturbates in a politician's official residence; a friend of a politician takes and disseminates a photo of themselves masturbating at a politician's official residence?"

Someone videoed a person at a party doing what people do - off duty from from their job - at parties. Nothing reprehensible here except that the person who made the video published it without first asking the permission of the subject of the video, I presume. If anything is condemnable it would be that.

art wrote:

Someone videoed a person at a party doing what people do - off duty from from their job - at parties.

Exactly. It doesn’t even look to be that wild of a party. Just a room party with a few selfies, a bit of silliness for the camera and a bit of dancing. It’s a fairly mild “party” tbh.

There’s no evidence of anything illegal going on, everything is consensual and her friends seem to be having genuine fun. Glad to see a leader who isn’t afraid to have some genuine consensual fun, rather than be in a scandal for sexually harassing younger and more vulnerable colleagues.

Even if she was taking some party drugs who cares, there’s no evidence they would’ve affected her at work. JFK used amphetamines and a lot politicians are full blown alcoholics. Lack of substance use doesn’t always necessarily create a good politician, George W Bush was a strict non drinker in office and look what he did.

scbriml wrote:

AeroVega wrote:

I'm 100% sure that if Donald Trump or Boris Johnson had given a party in the backyard of the White House or Downing Street 10 where two bear-breasted women would let themselves be photographed while kissing this forum would be too small for the outrage.

Why would anyone be outraged by seeing bear breasts?

I don't want to see bear breasts or bare breasts but you do you. Free the nipples. God/Allah/Yaweh/Krishna/FSM/Satan made us in His image so let's celebrate that.

As far as the Finnish PM and her friends having a good time, why not? Don't like it? Don't do it!

scbriml wrote:

Why would anyone be outraged by seeing bear breasts?

I don't want to see bear breasts or bare breasts but you do you. Free the nipples. God/Allah/Yaweh/Krishna/FSM/Satan made us in His image so let's celebrate that.

As far as the Finnish PM and her friends having a good time, why not?

What a fuss is made in some countries over partial nudity. In some European countries bare breasts are no big deal.