mxaxai wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

Those rims are gigantic.

Yup, batteries are heavy.

ACDC8 wrote:

Yup, batteries are heavy.

Of course, but 17'' or 18'' rims used to be perfectly fine for even heavy vans and luxury sedans. On this concept vehicle, it looks like at least 20'', possibly even 22''. That's a deliberate design choice.

mxaxai wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

Yup, batteries are heavy.

Of course, but 17'' or 18'' rims used to be perfectly fine for even heavy vans and luxury sedans. On this concept vehicle, it looks like at least 20'', possibly even 22''. That's a deliberate design choice.

For sure there's the design element, but there is also function. Bigger rims mean lower profile tires, lower profile tires equal less flex, less flex equals better handling. Could you run smaller rims on cars like this? Sure, but at a cost of handling.

Nowadays on high end cars/trims you can often chose the bigger rims for handling/looks or the smaller ones for comfort, at no cost.

Smaller rims, as I have read, also seem to go along with longer range. It is not a big hit to choose the larger.

That’ll save you more power than the cars’ll spend charging. Or thereabouts. Not kidding.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

I'm on our high rise condo EV charging committee. We were assuming that it could be 3-4 years before any installation would take place. Wrong. Suddenly it looks like this coming year will be the optimal time, and that we have far more power available than we thought. Because it is in a high rise it will cost about double what it would in a private residence. Another cost is handling the payments for electricity used in charging. That will have a largish annual fee plus some costs per kWh used over the actual cost of power from the utility. They also looked at our three levels of garages with florescent lighting and suggested a huge savings if we switched over to LEDs.

ACDC8 wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

Either way I'm sure most of us who haven't got one foot in the grave already will own an HEV or a BEV at some point in time.

No disagreement there. Personally, I'm still a good 10 years away which gives me time to see how the technology advances and a better picture of long time, real world battery longevity and reliability. Thats why I was very particular with specing out my GTI, wanted it to be exactly what I wanted so I can really enjoy my last manual car.

A year ago I would answer something like that: You can count on buying an EV because you live in developed countries that have a basic infrastructure. But does the rest of the world have the same? You don't even have to go to developing countries to have doubts. Spending 8 months on the island of St Croix (an US outlying island, part of USVI) was an eye opener. Electricity generated by burning diesel, unreliable. A lot of power outages...not really good for deploying EV's in any reasonable numbers. BTW, our customer was generating its own electricity using a LPG powered industrial turbine with diesel generator backup. Relying on the public resources would get them nowhere. Do you really think that the most of the world outside the G20 is better than that?

But now is 2022 and the situation seems to be even worse. Europe is in panic over the loss of russian natural gas as renewable electricity sources need a reliable backup. And Windsor, ON, lost a potential investment by LG chemicals earlier this year due to lack of energy supply. Oh, and did I say that I recently spent 2 weeks on the customer's site in California testing the WWR plant's auto restart capability after a power outage as power outages are way too frequent in the area? And we want to switch to electric cars no matter what??
Hydrogen could at least utilize wind and solar without causing trouble in the grid due to fluctuations in supply. But battery cars as we know them now? They are a problem and will be until someone develops a small, easily replaceable battery that could be used to balance the grid at any time, not only when the car is not running.

WildcatYXU wrote:

A year ago I would answer something like that: You can count on buying an EV because you live in developed countries that have a basic infrastructure. But does the rest of the world have the same? You don't even have to go to developing countries to have doubts. Spending 8 months on the island of St Croix (an US outlying island, part of USVI) was an eye opener. Electricity generated by burning diesel, unreliable. A lot of power outages...not really good for deploying EV's in any reasonable numbers. BTW, our customer was generating its own electricity using a LPG powered industrial turbine with diesel generator backup. Relying on the public resources would get them nowhere. Do you really think that the most of the world outside the G20 is better than that?

But now is 2022 and the situation seems to be even worse. Europe is in panic over the loss of russian natural gas as renewable electricity sources need a reliable backup. And Windsor, ON, lost a potential investment by LG chemicals earlier this year due to lack of energy supply. Oh, and did I say that I recently spent 2 weeks on the customer's site in California testing the WWR plant's auto restart capability after a power outage as power outages are way too frequent in the area? And we want to switch to electric cars no matter what??
Hydrogen could at least utilize wind and solar without causing trouble in the grid due to fluctuations in supply. But battery cars as we know them now? They are a problem and will be until someone develops a small, easily replaceable battery that could be used to balance the grid at any time, not only when the car is not running.

Yup, even here in Canada, the infrastructure isn't close to where it needs to be - it needs a lot of work and its gonna cost a lot of money. I remember back in the late 90s, my Uncle from Germany went to the US for his first time, when he got back I asked him how his trip was - he was completely flabbergasted that such a developed nation still has power lines running all over place instead of underground like most places in Europe - had to laugh about that lol. Where I live, its literally every 2 or 3 weeks we have a power outage because some branches took down some lines or a car hit a pole - yeesh.

ACDC8 wrote:

Yup, even here in Canada, the infrastructure isn't close to where it needs to be - it needs a lot of work and its gonna cost a lot of money. I remember back in the late 90s, my Uncle from Germany went to the US for his first time, when he got back I asked him how his trip was - he was completely flabbergasted that such a developed nation still has power lines running all over place instead of underground like most places in Europe - had to laugh about that lol. Where I live, its literally every 2 or 3 weeks we have a power outage because some branches took down some lines or a car hit a pole - yeesh.

The electrical poles and transformer buckets hanging from them were a big surprise for me as well when we moved to Canada. Not to mention the 120V/240V service from a single phase transformer with center tapped secondary winding. I was used to see 230/400V 3 phase service at each house.
That said, in our area the power distribution lines and signal lines are underground at the back end of our backyards. So if there would be a major upgrade, they'd have to dig up our backyards.
But I'm afraid London Hydro can't afford any major upgrades in the coming years.

WildcatYXU wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

Either way I'm sure most of us who haven't got one foot in the grave already will own an HEV or a BEV at some point in time.

No disagreement there. Personally, I'm still a good 10 years away which gives me time to see how the technology advances and a better picture of long time, real world battery longevity and reliability. Thats why I was very particular with specing out my GTI, wanted it to be exactly what I wanted so I can really enjoy my last manual car.

A year ago I would answer something like that: You can count on buying an EV because you live in developed countries that have a basic infrastructure. But does the rest of the world have the same? You don't even have to go to developing countries to have doubts. Spending 8 months on the island of St Croix (an US outlying island, part of USVI) was an eye opener. Electricity generated by burning diesel, unreliable. A lot of power outages...not really good for deploying EV's in any reasonable numbers. BTW, our customer was generating its own electricity using a LPG powered industrial turbine with diesel generator backup. Relying on the public resources would get them nowhere. Do you really think that the most of the world outside the G20 is better than that?

But now is 2022 and the situation seems to be even worse. Europe is in panic over the loss of russian natural gas as renewable electricity sources need a reliable backup. And Windsor, ON, lost a potential investment by LG chemicals earlier this year due to lack of energy supply. Oh, and did I say that I recently spent 2 weeks on the customer's site in California testing the WWR plant's auto restart capability after a power outage as power outages are way too frequent in the area? And we want to switch to electric cars no matter what??
Hydrogen could at least utilize wind and solar without causing trouble in the grid due to fluctuations in supply. But battery cars as we know them now? They are a problem and will be until someone develops a small, easily replaceable battery that could be used to balance the grid at any time, not only when the car is not running.

All of that is not applicable to where I live, the infrastructure in Norway is being built today for EV's. Most new homes being built today will have 400v power suitable to use a 22kw 3 phase type 2 charger, apartment buildings are built with charging stations, rightly or wrongly Norway has embraced the BEV.

Interesting fyi Porsche has sold more Taycans in Norway than all the ICE vehicle sales combined.

mxaxai wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

Yup, batteries are heavy.

Of course, but 17'' or 18'' rims used to be perfectly fine for even heavy vans and luxury sedans. On this concept vehicle, it looks like at least 20'', possibly even 22''. That's a deliberate design choice.

On this concept they are 22".

Related economics question: Coal and LNG are commonly shipped by, well, ships, and it is allegedly the cheap way of transporting these basic industrial supplies. So why is it so expensive on moderately well populated islands for FF powered electricity? And also related, most of those islands are in sunny windy places so shouldn't all of their electricity by solar/wind in a decade or two?

Kiwirob wrote:

Interesting fyi Porsche has sold more Taycans in Norway than all the ICE vehicle sales combined.

Quoted for emphasis. It should be noted he’s not talking about Porsche Rube Dino-cars, but all pure Rube Dino-cars combined.

Now, about the energy crisis. As you will note this crisis is all about the good old distrobution of dino fuel based energy. No gas from Russia-> problem.
Solution is as always more renewables over a large area, and a lot more nuclear, Fusion in 50 years.

The EV revolution continues regardless, the addtional EV load on the grid with full electrification is still negible, and an EV is still able to charge during off peak hours, and since most of the newer models will give you several kW and upwards to a 100kWh worth of 230V outlets, it is actually an ideal addition to anyone living somewhere threatenes by black outs. We are already seeing large installations of ex-EV batteries used as buffers in the grid.

All in all, the EV revolution will be a net to positive contribution to the electricity infrastructure.
As for charging infrastructure: The private initiative is not capable of resisting THAT market. They will flock to it.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

Related economics question: Coal and LNG are commonly shipped by, well, ships, and it is allegedly the cheap way of transporting these basic industrial supplies. So why is it so expensive on moderately well populated islands for FF powered electricity? And also related, most of those islands are in sunny windy places so shouldn't all of their electricity by solar/wind in a decade or two?

LNG isn't cheap full stop. It's not the natural way of gas, it needs a significant amount of energy to get to that state, then you need to make it into gas at the other hand (and the energy is wasted, although there are ways to recover some of it). I doubt any island is getting LNG, unless you're talking about countries (like Japan).

Coal is inert so much simpler to transport by ship. And it can even use pipelines although that is rarely done. But anything done on an island has added costs.

And yes many islands should be able to run on renewable energy, as long as there is a way to store electricity, which is now possible but it's new. It's also possible to store it as H2, or even H2 and O2 in two tanks, but it's much less efficient than an electric battery.

Kiwirob wrote:

Interesting fyi Porsche has sold more Taycans in Norway than all the ICE vehicle sales combined.

We're still a very long way from there. For 2021, 95% of new light passenger cars/trucks sales were still ICE.

I do like the Taycan - took me a while to warm up to the Panamera when it first came out, but both still retain that iconic Porsche vibe to them. As far as EVs go, VAG by far has the nicest looking ones on the market.