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Aaron747
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:18 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Here’s an idea just make all levels of education free. It works in many other countries and society benefits from having a better educated population.


Oh but then private schools would have to actually compete on standards instead of hoodwinking parents with an easy bogeyman.
 
invertalon
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:32 pm

First and foremost, I am all for supporting to cap interest rates, add controls to schooling costs, etc… Fixing the problem at it’s source. But not for just giving money to those who knowingly took those loans and got into the financial mess.

Everybody has choices and opportunities, regardless of your financial situation. If you are poor and want a high caliber school, get the grades and obtain the scholarships you need to cover the costs. If not, chose cheaper schools that offer programs in what you are interested in and choose wisely for what you can afford (both present and in your field of study… Don’t take $100K+ in loans in a silly field that won’t ever allow you to pay it back, for example).

When I was choosing my college, it came down to two schools… One was a city college, which at the time, was something like $8K a year tuition (today, it appears to be $11.5K per year). The other, was a private college that was around $30K a year (today, $61K). I attended between 2008-2015. Of course, those costs also don't include books, commuting costs to/from, etc... For additional perspective, I went to an city public high school which was renowned for being part of a horrible school district, one of the worst in the state (Out of 608 districts in the state, mine was 6 away from dead last). So I wasn’t coming from some wonderful school district with wealthy parents or anything like that.

Both schools offered me a half-ride scholarship for grades and such. Both had respectable programs in Mech. Engineering, which is what I wanted to go into.

I ultimately chose the cheaper school for a few reasons, but a big reason of course was the cost. I was paying for ALL my schooling, no help from mom/dad or anything like that. I knew at the more expensive school, I would still have a bunch of student loans after graduation. I also likely could not pay off as I went, especially if for some reason I lost my scholarship due to grades, for example. At least at the cheaper one, if I had no aid at all, I still had a fighting chance to pay the tuition year to year by working.

In the end, it took me around 7 years to get my undergrad, because I took semesters off to work internships/coops to help pay my way through. I graduated with -0- debt because of this, it just took me a bit more time (but on the flipside, had shy of 3 years of experience at 5 different companies upon graduation). Every job I have applied for and interviewed with, I have gotten. So it was quite beneficial in the end.

Back to the topic at hand, it just seems a bit unfair for those that were responsible to get nothing at all. Why not also reward those who paid off everything, without a handout, as well?

Instead, the Government should just wipe all the interest accrued from those federal loans, or at least severely cap them, and fix the problem at the source.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:13 pm

A worthwhile read on tuition and financial aid—something like 60 cents of every Federal dollar went into college cost increases. Subsidies don’t fix cost, the increase them. Elasticities matter.

https://academic.oup.com/rfs/article/32 ... ogin=false
 
stratosphere
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:42 pm

CaptHadley wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:

Of course, what conservative media loves to ignore is that 40% of those possessing student debt never graduated. Earlier this year, when the ceiling was expected to be $75K ($150K joint filing), the NYT estimated that about two-thirds of those receiving relief have no degree. Nearly 5 million people with loans of $10k or less are in default, and around 80% of people with loans but no degree owe $10K or less.

It’s certainly a better, cheaper idea that will help more people than the PPP program…


Well 60% of those with student debt have advanced degrees and why is the limit allowed to be 125k for a single person ? I paid all my student loans working full time and going to school full time and I didn't start making over 100k until late in my life. Anyone who makes over a 100k can pay their damn loans. Not to mention this is not going to address the root problem which is the high cost of college. This will never change especially under the democrats since they are they get the most political contributions from the college world. Attack the root problem and just because you didn't graduate and get your degree is not our problem you took on the debt you own the debt. This is why liberals drive me insane. Personal responsibility never ever comes into play no matter what the issue is


Your conservative republican heroes taking out millions in PPP loans and not paying them back must render you absolutely catatonic huh.


It wasn't just conservatives that took out PPP loans and it continued into Bidens helm AND most of all a ton of it was obtained fraudulently. The government has only scratched the surface with who they caught. EBT is the same way a lot of it is scammed by people with drug habits and they sell their EBT for 50 cents on the dollar for cash and what did Biden do when he got into office he expended that program. I am a libertarian I hate both parties pretty much but the liberal Democrats have the edge on my distaste. Just because I despise Biden doesn't mean I am MAGA or a Trumpster either. I don't want to see Trump back in office. The current political system screws the working middle class and that's BOTH parties. Yes SEB both sides do it!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:13 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
A worthwhile read on tuition and financial aid—something like 60 cents of every Federal dollar went into college cost increases. Subsidies don’t fix cost, the increase them. Elasticities matter.

https://academic.oup.com/rfs/article/32 ... ogin=false



Interesting that the Tuition is leading the supply of loans though in your example. Perhaps there are other reasons why.
The big jump in 06/07 was when everyone lost their jobs due to the recession.

Image
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:49 pm

Well, if read it, they do address that but conclude.

We studied the effects of a student credit expansion on tuition costs using a difference-in-differences approach around changes in federal loan program maximums to undergraduate students in the academic years 2007–2008 and 2008–2009. Institutions that were most exposed to these program maximums ahead of the policy changes experienced disproportionate tuition increases. We estimate tuition effects of changes in institution-specific program maximums of about 60 cents on the dollar for subsidized loans and 20 cents on the dollar for unsubsidized loans.

These results suggest that, consistent with the paper’s theoretical framework, credit expansions can impact tuition to a broad set of students including those who were not recipients of federal loans. Such pricing demand externalities are often conjectured in the context of the subprime credit expansion on housing prices leading up to the financial crisis, and in this respect this study provides complementary evidence for the student loan market. Documenting a link between a credit expansion and tuition in a comprehensive sample of institutions also contributes to the literature studying the Bennett hypothesis that has mostly focused on substitution effects between federal and institution grants.
 
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seb146
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:06 pm

stratosphere wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:
stratosphere wrote:

Well 60% of those with student debt have advanced degrees and why is the limit allowed to be 125k for a single person ? I paid all my student loans working full time and going to school full time and I didn't start making over 100k until late in my life. Anyone who makes over a 100k can pay their damn loans. Not to mention this is not going to address the root problem which is the high cost of college. This will never change especially under the democrats since they are they get the most political contributions from the college world. Attack the root problem and just because you didn't graduate and get your degree is not our problem you took on the debt you own the debt. This is why liberals drive me insane. Personal responsibility never ever comes into play no matter what the issue is


Your conservative republican heroes taking out millions in PPP loans and not paying them back must render you absolutely catatonic huh.


It wasn't just conservatives that took out PPP loans and it continued into Bidens helm AND most of all a ton of it was obtained fraudulently. The government has only scratched the surface with who they caught. EBT is the same way a lot of it is scammed by people with drug habits and they sell their EBT for 50 cents on the dollar for cash and what did Biden do when he got into office he expended that program. I am a libertarian I hate both parties pretty much but the liberal Democrats have the edge on my distaste. Just because I despise Biden doesn't mean I am MAGA or a Trumpster either. I don't want to see Trump back in office. The current political system screws the working middle class and that's BOTH parties. Yes SEB both sides do it!!


No, both sides do not. PPP was cancelled under Biden. It was started under the previous administration. Massive tax cuts were given to thousands of the wealthiest people under the previous administration, which were not paid for. The current plan gives cuts for lower and middle income people. Democrats also passed some other bills that will actually benefit lower and middle income homes. Like the health care caps.

As far as EBT, yes there are those who sell their cards for cash so they can buy drugs or pay utilities or diapers for the baby or whatever. Yes, that happens. No one but no one denies it. That does not prove "both sides do it" beyond it has happened as far back as the food stamp program began.

Banks, airlines, tourism were all "too big to fail" and were given billions and billions in bail out money. That was celebrated by Republicans. Now, something that actually helps lower and middle income people is being hated by Republicans. If Republicans were in favor of helping us, you all would make education affordable. Especially degrees in the sciences. But, no. Republicans complain about "indoctrination" and want to cancel education.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:10 pm

casinterest wrote:
The big jump in 06/07 was when everyone lost their jobs due to the recession.

Well yes, it is easy money to obtain. And if you lose your job, one thing many people do is go back to school (why not?). But additionally a "school loan" can be used for anything really, importantly: Living expenses. You don't even actually have to go to school, just drop out immediately. The money is still there for you. That is what is so important about school loans, they are easy to get.

Regarding tuition increases, I tend to think is is more that schools marketed themselves effectively to students with access to easy money (loans). That is the smart thing to do, sell the hopes and dreams, which got them more applicants. With that they did it more, expanding and increasing expenses. It is pure free market that a product will increase in cost with greater demand. It is very circular, but I don't think it is some "evil Big Education" thing, I think it is capitalism at its finest.

Tugg
 
hashtagconfused
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:13 pm

seb146 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:

Your conservative republican heroes taking out millions in PPP loans and not paying them back must render you absolutely catatonic huh.


It wasn't just conservatives that took out PPP loans and it continued into Bidens helm AND most of all a ton of it was obtained fraudulently. The government has only scratched the surface with who they caught. EBT is the same way a lot of it is scammed by people with drug habits and they sell their EBT for 50 cents on the dollar for cash and what did Biden do when he got into office he expended that program. I am a libertarian I hate both parties pretty much but the liberal Democrats have the edge on my distaste. Just because I despise Biden doesn't mean I am MAGA or a Trumpster either. I don't want to see Trump back in office. The current political system screws the working middle class and that's BOTH parties. Yes SEB both sides do it!!


Massive tax cuts were given to thousands of the wealthiest people under the previous administration, which were not paid for. The current plan gives cuts for lower and middle income people.


https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/584 ... cans-most/

per this, middle and working class people benefited the most.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:57 pm

Tugger wrote:
Regarding tuition increases, I tend to think is is more that schools marketed themselves effectively to students with access to easy money (loans). That is the smart thing to do, sell the hopes and dreams, which got them more applicants. With that they did it more, expanding and increasing expenses. It is pure free market that a product will increase in cost with greater demand. It is very circular, but I don't think it is some "evil Big Education" thing, I think it is capitalism at its finest.


That's incorrect. First off, federal loans are often insufficient to cover the cost of tuition and fees, let alone any living expenses. Secondly, dropping classes will make one ineligible for future loans. That said, are there people who take advantage of the system by signing up for classes then immediately dropping them, while pocketing the loan proceeds with no intention of ever paying it back? Of course, but the number is not significant. Nothing's fool proof -- fraud exists even in the private sector. But defaulted student loans are far more likely to haunt you, as the government hires aggressive debt collectors.

hashtagconfused wrote:
per this, middle and working class people benefited the most.


"This" is a notoriously bias conservator commentator. Tax is my living, and TCJA definitely benefited wealthy, high income earners more, no matter what type of spin is put on it.

stratosphere wrote:
It wasn't just conservatives that took out PPP loans and it continued into Bidens helm AND most of all a ton of it was obtained fraudulently. The government has only scratched the surface with who they caught. EBT is the same way a lot of it is scammed by people with drug habits and they sell their EBT for 50 cents on the dollar for cash and what did Biden do when he got into office he expended that program. I am a libertarian I hate both parties pretty much but the liberal Democrats have the edge on my distaste. Just because I despise Biden doesn't mean I am MAGA or a Trumpster either. I don't want to see Trump back in office. The current political system screws the working middle class and that's BOTH parties. Yes SEB both sides do it!!


Regan notoriously demonized welfare in his campaign, but research concluded fraud was minimal and no where on the scale that he and the Republicans continued to report. Sad that negative connotations continue...
 
ltbewr
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:30 pm

Perhaps the income threshold over a previous 5 year period should have been the poverty level x 2 instead of $120K as well as either unemployed, for women in particular raising children, unable to mentally or physically work or in a low wage job entry job.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:31 pm

Tugger wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The big jump in 06/07 was when everyone lost their jobs due to the recession.

Well yes, it is easy money to obtain. And if you lose your job, one thing many people do is go back to school (why not?). But additionally a "school loan" can be used for anything really, importantly: Living expenses. You don't even actually have to go to school, just drop out immediately. The money is still there for you. That is what is so important about school loans, they are easy to get.

Regarding tuition increases, I tend to think is is more that schools marketed themselves effectively to students with access to easy money (loans). That is the smart thing to do, sell the hopes and dreams, which got them more applicants. With that they did it more, expanding and increasing expenses. It is pure free market that a product will increase in cost with greater demand. It is very circular, but I don't think it is some "evil Big Education" thing, I think it is capitalism at its finest.

Tugg


I think the capitalism aspect exists, but at the end of the day the college should be a cosigner on the Federal loan. It would make them much more in tune to who gets approved and who does not based on merit.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:32 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Regarding tuition increases, I tend to think is is more that schools marketed themselves effectively to students with access to easy money (loans). That is the smart thing to do, sell the hopes and dreams, which got them more applicants. With that they did it more, expanding and increasing expenses. It is pure free market that a product will increase in cost with greater demand. It is very circular, but I don't think it is some "evil Big Education" thing, I think it is capitalism at its finest.


That's incorrect. First off, federal loans are often insufficient to cover the cost of tuition and fees, let alone any living expenses. Secondly, dropping classes will make one ineligible for future loans. That said, are there people who take advantage of the system by signing up for classes then immediately dropping them, while pocketing the loan proceeds with no intention of ever paying it back? Of course, but the number is not significant. Nothing's fool proof -- fraud exists even in the private sector. But defaulted student loans are far more likely to haunt you, as the government hires aggressive debt collectors.

I think you missed quoting part of my post, the first part that you appear to be responding to. Using loans not as they are supposed to be used happens all the time. And I never said they wouldn't be paid back. Get the loan for school because you have time and can go back, but school is not for everyone and many instead drop out (whether because they found a new temp job or whatever) but they have the money still. They don't intend to get a new loan necessarily (not if they are dropping out) and the money helps them in the short term and they can still pay it back.

Tugg
 
hashtagconfused
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:56 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:

hashtagconfused wrote:
per this, middle and working class people benefited the most.


"This" is a notoriously bias conservator commentator. Tax is my living, and TCJA definitely benefited wealthy, high income earners more, no matter what type of spin is put on it.



can you provide a source with this data? i would like to see the numbers
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:35 pm

Anecdotal, but a friend who doesn’t have a large income says TCJA gave him $40-$50 a month in reduced income taxes, mostly the higher standard deduction. Of course, the “rich” benefits,they have more income to tax or not. And, it depends a lot on the details—lots of SALT deductions, you lost out. Rich in a no income tax state with fewer deductions, you won. I’m in Taxachusetts, I won, believe it or not. Standard deduction now for 19 years.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:45 pm

hashtagconfused wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:

hashtagconfused wrote:
per this, middle and working class people benefited the most.


"This" is a notoriously bias conservator commentator. Tax is my living, and TCJA definitely benefited wealthy, high income earners more, no matter what type of spin is put on it.



can you provide a source with this data? i would like to see the numbers


As I mentioned, tax is my life. I prepared hundreds of projections that show per- and post-TCJA liabilities. Most of my clients have 7 and 8 figure incomes.

Most wealthy people earn their income through a business, even if it’s a loan out. Conservative have also gutted the IRS staffing and appointed wealth-friendly judges to the point that previously forbidden business expenses - like their expensive wardrobe and medical expenses like cosmetic surgery and dental - are now generally accepted as business. That means your local 7-11 owner can claim his wife’s fake tits as a business expense.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:51 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Anecdotal, but a friend who doesn’t have a large income says TCJA gave him $40-$50 a month in reduced income taxes, mostly the higher standard deduction. Of course, the “rich” benefits,they have more income to tax or not. And, it depends a lot on the details—lots of SALT deductions, you lost out. Rich in a no income tax state with fewer deductions, you won. I’m in Taxachusetts, I won, believe it or not. Standard deduction now for 19 years.


What matters is the tax liability. The IRS lowered withholding requirements twice after TCJA, so effectively you’re receiving more of your money today and less of a refund next year. Many people didn’t get the relief they thought they did, which isn’t surprising given half the county paid a minimal amount to begin with.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:38 pm

Discuss the topic, not other users.
 
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seb146
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:30 am

hashtagconfused wrote:
seb146 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:

It wasn't just conservatives that took out PPP loans and it continued into Bidens helm AND most of all a ton of it was obtained fraudulently. The government has only scratched the surface with who they caught. EBT is the same way a lot of it is scammed by people with drug habits and they sell their EBT for 50 cents on the dollar for cash and what did Biden do when he got into office he expended that program. I am a libertarian I hate both parties pretty much but the liberal Democrats have the edge on my distaste. Just because I despise Biden doesn't mean I am MAGA or a Trumpster either. I don't want to see Trump back in office. The current political system screws the working middle class and that's BOTH parties. Yes SEB both sides do it!!


Massive tax cuts were given to thousands of the wealthiest people under the previous administration, which were not paid for. The current plan gives cuts for lower and middle income people.


https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/584 ... cans-most/

per this, middle and working class people benefited the most.


So why do we have so many homeless and not on health care if there is so much money for us propping up the capitalists? If we, at the bottom and middle, are the recipients of all the wealth, why can we not get any of that wealth? Why are we struggling for basic necessities? Like food and housing and health care? We may have gotten a 10% tax break but 10% of $20,000 (2000 over 12 months, less than 200 per month) while prices continue to rise while the very rich have specific incomes taxed, if at all, because they can afford accountants to write off yachts and five homes and meals at Michelin Star restaurants.

Not the same, really. People who can move money at the snap of a finger vs. people who don't have two dimes to rub together. Seems more of a case of "get your gruel and be grateful or else"
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:44 pm

If someone is getting their student loan wiped out or "forgiven" shouldn't they get a 1099 form from the IRS as well?
 
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seb146
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:32 pm

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
If someone is getting their student loan wiped out or "forgiven" shouldn't they get a 1099 form from the IRS as well?


What did MTG and Republicans who had their PPP loans forgiven get? What did "too big to fail" Chase get?
 
hashtagconfused
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:54 pm

if the interest rate and structure is the cause of the massive loan debt, why not just restructure the rates and method it compounds? seems the solution offered does not actually address the issue that the govt itself has created.

will there be any relief for individuals that took out private loans?

seb146 wrote:

So why do we have so many homeless and not on health care if there is so much money for us propping up the capitalists? If we, at the bottom and middle, are the recipients of all the wealth, why can we not get any of that wealth? Why are we struggling for basic necessities? Like food and housing and health care? We may have gotten a 10% tax break but 10% of $20,000 (2000 over 12 months, less than 200 per month) while prices continue to rise while the very rich have specific incomes taxed, if at all, because they can afford accountants to write off yachts and five homes and meals at Michelin Star restaurants.

Not the same, really. People who can move money at the snap of a finger vs. people who don't have two dimes to rub together. Seems more of a case of "get your gruel and be grateful or else"


just because a broad cross section of people benefited from the tax cuts does not mean it will solve homelessness, lower the cost of healthcare, housing, or the price of gas. same as the $10,000 loan forgiveness will not fix those things either.

someone making $20,000 typically is only paying a few hundred dollars on average per year in federal taxes to begin with.


seb146 wrote:
FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
If someone is getting their student loan wiped out or "forgiven" shouldn't they get a 1099 form from the IRS as well?


What did MTG and Republicans who had their PPP loans forgiven get? What did "too big to fail" Chase get?


likely the same thing the democrats that had PPP loans forgiven got, which varies by state:

https://taxfoundation.org/state-tax-forgiven-ppp-loans/
 
dmg626
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:17 pm

I’m for some type of relief, but it could be tied to a volunteerism program so it’s not just a giveaway.
 
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seb146
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:00 am

hashtagconfused wrote:
if the interest rate and structure is the cause of the massive loan debt, why not just restructure the rates and method it compounds? seems the solution offered does not actually address the issue that the govt itself has created.

will there be any relief for individuals that took out private loans?

seb146 wrote:

So why do we have so many homeless and not on health care if there is so much money for us propping up the capitalists? If we, at the bottom and middle, are the recipients of all the wealth, why can we not get any of that wealth? Why are we struggling for basic necessities? Like food and housing and health care? We may have gotten a 10% tax break but 10% of $20,000 (2000 over 12 months, less than 200 per month) while prices continue to rise while the very rich have specific incomes taxed, if at all, because they can afford accountants to write off yachts and five homes and meals at Michelin Star restaurants.

Not the same, really. People who can move money at the snap of a finger vs. people who don't have two dimes to rub together. Seems more of a case of "get your gruel and be grateful or else"


just because a broad cross section of people benefited from the tax cuts does not mean it will solve homelessness, lower the cost of healthcare, housing, or the price of gas. same as the $10,000 loan forgiveness will not fix those things either.

someone making $20,000 typically is only paying a few hundred dollars on average per year in federal taxes to begin with.


seb146 wrote:
FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
If someone is getting their student loan wiped out or "forgiven" shouldn't they get a 1099 form from the IRS as well?


What did MTG and Republicans who had their PPP loans forgiven get? What did "too big to fail" Chase get?


likely the same thing the democrats that had PPP loans forgiven got, which varies by state:

https://taxfoundation.org/state-tax-forgiven-ppp-loans/


So this will put more money into the pockets of those of us paying taxes and working hard to pay back overpriced debt.

Republicans are complaining loudly about this debt forgiveness for lower and middle income people doing the right thing but these same people had much more debt forgiven and praised that. So, again, what is the difference between the wealthy having much more debt forgiven vs. lower and middle income people having less debt forgiven?
 
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c933103
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:16 am

seb146 wrote:
FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
If someone is getting their student loan wiped out or "forgiven" shouldn't they get a 1099 form from the IRS as well?


What did MTG and Republicans who had their PPP loans forgiven get? What did "too big to fail" Chase get?

Weren't most government relief loan given to entities deemed "too big to fail" ultimately being repaid?
 
CometII
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Sun Aug 28, 2022 2:01 pm

c933103 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
If someone is getting their student loan wiped out or "forgiven" shouldn't they get a 1099 form from the IRS as well?


What did MTG and Republicans who had their PPP loans forgiven get? What did "too big to fail" Chase get?

Weren't most government relief loan given to entities deemed "too big to fail" ultimately being repaid?


That's not the point. The point is that these disgusting tribalists on the right are not JUST attacking the idea of student loan forgiveness. They are attacking the TARGETS:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dea ... 57309.html

I am totally cool to being opposed to cancelling debt as a matter of principle or just out fear of economic consequences. But to go after the people, that is disgusting and those making such comments like Stephen Moore should be pilloried for it. I will certainly do my best. And that's where the whole bailout thing comes into play. Where was he shaming and humiliating CEOS and immediate white collar underlings during TARP? I can't google anything about his stance right now which isa a bit shocking.

But where were the consequences for those people? They got bailed out, and virtually no criminal charges issued. I think if you require a bailout because your business can create a cascade failure in the economy, there should be a clause that clearly states you can be prosecuted with a much lower burden of proof of guilt. And since now there are stress tests, the CEO cannot refuse a bailout if the government assesses otherwise and the CEO can then be investigated under the looser criminal rules. That would have been an appropriate way to "repay" society, by rewarding success and punishing failure.

The US college system is a scam, Bill Maher is right, it doesn't take 100K to give you a decent education and I watch videos of Ivy league lectures and vehemently disagree with the topos that the massive endowments many colleges have amassed today are helpful to society. Obviously not, since affordability has gotten far worse in an eerie negative covariance with the size of the universities' investment funds.

This country is increasingly completely backwards in basically everything when it comes to fairness and common sense.
 
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seb146
Posts: 24955
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:01 pm

c933103 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
If someone is getting their student loan wiped out or "forgiven" shouldn't they get a 1099 form from the IRS as well?


What did MTG and Republicans who had their PPP loans forgiven get? What did "too big to fail" Chase get?

Weren't most government relief loan given to entities deemed "too big to fail" ultimately being repaid?


The loans for the rich that were cancelled were over $100,000 for each person. Some had as much as $200,000. In free government money. Welfare for the rich. These same people are complaining about $10,000 per lower income person being cancelled. The rich hating the poor. And people are agreeing the poor are greedy.
 
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EA CO AS
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:58 pm

dmg626 wrote:
I’m for some type of relief, but it could be tied to a volunteerism program so it’s not just a giveaway.


Make it conditional upon volunteerism, AND the federal government has to get out of the student loan business forever.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:56 pm

$250 k was way too high.

IMO - should have started phasing out at a much lower number.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Mon Aug 29, 2022 4:14 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
I’m for some type of relief, but it could be tied to a volunteerism program so it’s not just a giveaway.


Make it conditional upon volunteerism, AND the federal government has to get out of the student loan business forever.

Agree on the "do something to get something" aspect, but for students that have little to no resources, these loans are vital. I think there needs to be something available as no financial institution would lend such amounts, unsecured, to students. I think maybe give it to the states to do, if they wish to participate. Make it that it has to be a zero percent interest with the federal program as the ultimate guarantor and a limit of $40,000.00 ($10K/year) max. It limits the fed involvement and lets states figure out what they feel is best.

MohawkWeekend wrote:
$250 k was way too high.

IMO - should have started phasing out at a much lower number.

Agreed. As I noted earlier, I think $40K should have been the max income, AND several years of non/missed payments.

Tugg
 
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william
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:14 am

Why are college presidents not being brought before congressional committees to explain why its costs $25K a semester at many of these schools? Isn't the high cost of college the reason for the "crises"? Lets break down their costs, these not for profit institutions.

Sallie Mae is not around anymore to blame anymore. Students still using SLS loans to go to Spring Break?

And yes, I have a family member who will gain from this relief, my point still stands, no one wants to talk about the high cost of a college education.
 
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seb146
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Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:47 pm

william wrote:
Why are college presidents not being brought before congressional committees to explain why its costs $25K a semester at many of these schools? Isn't the high cost of college the reason for the "crises"? Lets break down their costs, these not for profit institutions.

Sallie Mae is not around anymore to blame anymore. Students still using SLS loans to go to Spring Break?

And yes, I have a family member who will gain from this relief, my point still stands, no one wants to talk about the high cost of a college education.


How else will they have a championship sports team?

The high cost of not-for-profit schools is one part of all of this. Another is the insane interest rates and fees and nickel-and-dime students who simply want a good paying job because if you get a good education in a good field, you will be on easy street your whole life. But we can't discuss this because schools are teaching gender studies and students are encountering other cultures. That is the counter argument.
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 2087
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Sun Sep 04, 2022 6:38 pm

The NY Post ran an article today that claims the "fine print" in the loan forgiveness is what's really bad.

According to the article, going forward all borrowers (not sure if they have a income limit and after the $10 or $20K forgiveness ) will only have to pay back 5% of their "discretionary" income for 10 years before the remaining balance of the loan is forgiven. And that's going forward for new borrowers too. So borrow way more than you need and you'll make a bundle.

Is this story true?

"Think Biden’s student loan write-offs are unfair? Just take a look at the fine print"
https://nypost.com/2022/09/03/think-bid ... ine-print/
 
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seb146
Posts: 24955
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Mon Sep 05, 2022 5:53 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
The NY Post ran an article today that claims the "fine print" in the loan forgiveness is what's really bad.

According to the article, going forward all borrowers (not sure if they have a income limit and after the $10 or $20K forgiveness ) will only have to pay back 5% of their "discretionary" income for 10 years before the remaining balance of the loan is forgiven. And that's going forward for new borrowers too. So borrow way more than you need and you'll make a bundle.

Is this story true?

"Think Biden’s student loan write-offs are unfair? Just take a look at the fine print"
https://nypost.com/2022/09/03/think-bid ... ine-print/


First of all, consider the source.

Second, they will not let you to take out $5,000,000 in education loans for a $10,000 a year school.
 
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william
Posts: 4110
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: Cancelling Student Loan Debt

Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:36 pm

seb146 wrote:
william wrote:
Why are college presidents not being brought before congressional committees to explain why its costs $25K a semester at many of these schools? Isn't the high cost of college the reason for the "crises"? Lets break down their costs, these not for profit institutions.

Sallie Mae is not around anymore to blame anymore. Students still using SLS loans to go to Spring Break?

And yes, I have a family member who will gain from this relief, my point still stands, no one wants to talk about the high cost of a college education.


How else will they have a championship sports team?

The high cost of not-for-profit schools is one part of all of this. Another is the insane interest rates and fees and nickel-and-dime students who simply want a good paying job because if you get a good education in a good field, you will be on easy street your whole life. But we can't discuss this because schools are teaching gender studies and students are encountering other cultures. That is the counter argument.


I didn't want to mention the billions certain schools will be getting from TV football contracts because not all schools benefit from such a wind fall. The silence on the subject school costs is telling.

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