VMCA787 wrote:

According to CNN, a deal has been reached to avert a rail strike.

cjg225 wrote:

VMCA787 wrote:

According to CNN, a deal has been reached to avert a rail strike.

Still has to be voted on. One of the smaller unions rejected their tentative deal yesterday. There exists the risk one of these two bigger unions would do the same thing.

johns624 wrote:

I'm on another forum that is railroad-related. The issue isn't money, it's working conditions. They are so short staffed that they are called on their minimum rest. They have sick and vacation days but unless they are applied for well in the future, they are penalized for taking them. They can't schedule doctor's appts, etc.

Under the federal Railway Labor Act, railroad workers like Sawyer aren’t covered by the federal overtime protections of the Fair Labor Standards Act. Instead, they are only guaranteed ten hours off from work every 24 hours—
[...]
As the railroads have laid off more and more staff, they have forced workers like Lindsey to regularly work 80 to 90 hours a week, leading to an exodus of staff.

The attendance policy, known as “Hi-Viz,” is part of a series of actions taken by BNSF and other railroads to cut capacity and squeeze labor costs. As the Prospect has explained, these “precision scheduled railroading” policies, intensely sought by Wall Street, raise railroad profits but make the system vulnerable to becoming overwhelmed during surges in demand for shipping. Sure enough, that’s what’s happening right now during the supply chain crunch, and according to Regan and his affiliated unions, the Hi-Viz policy would exacerbate that.

Under Hi-Viz, which was implemented February 1, BNSF gives every employee a bank of points, and if for any reason that employee cannot take a shift—whether for family and medical leave, conflicts in their schedules, personal illness, or even COVID-19—the employee is docked points. The docked points go up if the scheduled days in question are “high-impact,” like on a national holiday.

Under the new policy, engineers and conductors begin with 30 points, and then points are deducted from that for absences, with the deductions ranging from two points to 25 points. A worker can earn four points back by being available to work for 14 days in a row including weekends. An employee would be disciplined when their points are exhausted.

Now the railroad plans to offer seven bonus points to workers who log the most hours in a month. Workers will also receive one extra point if they remain available to work right before or after planned vacations, show up on holidays and other in-demand days or if they have to report to work between Friday afternoon and midday Saturday.

The head of the Transportation Trades Department union coalition that includes BLET, SMART-TD and several other rail unions said the tweaks BNSF is making don’t change the overall effect of the policy because earning an extra point or two won’t offset provisions like the 15-point deduction for being unable to work on a holiday.

VMCA787 wrote:

Interesting given the fact the agreement was not reached until this morning at 0530! 24% pay raise and back pay from 2020.

https://us.cnn.com/2022/09/15/politics/ ... index.html

johns624 wrote:

I'm on another forum that is railroad-related. The issue isn't money, it's working conditions. They are so short staffed that they are called on their minimum rest. They have sick and vacation days but unless they are applied for well in the future, they are penalized for taking them. They can't schedule doctor's appts, etc.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

The threat of a freight railroad strike is back

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/10/business/railroad-union-vote-strike-threat/index.html

The two largest unions, the Sheet Metal, Air, Rail, Transportation union, which represents conductors, and the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen, which represents engineers, have yet to vote. Online chatter among the conductors union and engineers union members signal they want a strike before even seeing the contract.

Even if the members of the two larger unions vote in favor of their deals, they would not report to work if the BMWE were to go on strike. And the fact that the BMWE voted down the contract is probably a sign that rank-and-file anger towards railroad management could lead to no votes at the two larger unions as well.

cjg225 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

The threat of a freight railroad strike is back

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/10/business/railroad-union-vote-strike-threat/index.html

The two largest unions, the Sheet Metal, Air, Rail, Transportation union, which represents conductors, and the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen, which represents engineers, have yet to vote. Online chatter among the conductors union and engineers union members signal they want a strike before even seeing the contract.

Even if the members of the two larger unions vote in favor of their deals, they would not report to work if the BMWE were to go on strike. And the fact that the BMWE voted down the contract is probably a sign that rank-and-file anger towards railroad management could lead to no votes at the two larger unions as well.

The threat never really went away. This is why it was so vexing to see all the cheering headlines from last month that we were all good after that tentative agreement was reached, in no small part because that agreement didn't cover all 12 unions and that various unions were more upset with the proposals than others. We've already seen one rejection, now another, and there is a real risk that the deal reached on the 11th for the 2 largest unions could be rejected, as well.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

I stand with the Railroad workers quality of life demands.

For those that may know, how does the working conditions of freight railroad workers in other countries compare to the US workers?

Tugger wrote:

cjg225 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

The threat of a freight railroad strike is back

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/10/business/railroad-union-vote-strike-threat/index.html

The two largest unions, the Sheet Metal, Air, Rail, Transportation union, which represents conductors, and the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen, which represents engineers, have yet to vote. Online chatter among the conductors union and engineers union members signal they want a strike before even seeing the contract.

Even if the members of the two larger unions vote in favor of their deals, they would not report to work if the BMWE were to go on strike. And the fact that the BMWE voted down the contract is probably a sign that rank-and-file anger towards railroad management could lead to no votes at the two larger unions as well.

The threat never really went away. This is why it was so vexing to see all the cheering headlines from last month that we were all good after that tentative agreement was reached, in no small part because that agreement didn't cover all 12 unions and that various unions were more upset with the proposals than others. We've already seen one rejection, now another, and there is a real risk that the deal reached on the 11th for the 2 largest unions could be rejected, as well.

The cheering was because it pushed any strike to past the November elections...

There will be a strike.
And with Sanders commitment to keep Congress out of it the railway companies will have to cave (after a few weeks at least. Which will still be very bad).

Tugg

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

Tugger wrote:

cjg225 wrote:

The threat never really went away. This is why it was so vexing to see all the cheering headlines from last month that we were all good after that tentative agreement was reached, in no small part because that agreement didn't cover all 12 unions and that various unions were more upset with the proposals than others. We've already seen one rejection, now another, and there is a real risk that the deal reached on the 11th for the 2 largest unions could be rejected, as well.

The cheering was because it pushed any strike to past the November elections...

There will be a strike.
And with Sanders commitment to keep Congress out of it the railway companies will have to cave (after a few weeks at least. Which will still be very bad).

Tugg

There is NO WAY there will be a strike. If it came down to it, the POTUS will order them back to work. The supply chain is already too fragile, shutting down rail would be a complete disaster.

cpd wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

I stand with the Railroad workers quality of life demands.

For those that may know, how does the working conditions of freight railroad workers in other countries compare to the US workers?

Although it’s not the same, here we deal with these quality of life issues by replacing human driven trains with driverless “metro” trains. They simply get rid of the quality of life issues by getting rid of the person driving the train.

Not done yet with normal freight trains, but I think it is being thought about with the iron ore trains.

Edit: they actually have done it:

https://www.riotinto.com/en/news/storie ... gest-robot

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

Congress can impose a new contract, but POTUS can order them back to work just like the airlines.

johns624 wrote:

cpd wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

I stand with the Railroad workers quality of life demands.

For those that may know, how does the working conditions of freight railroad workers in other countries compare to the US workers?

Although it’s not the same, here we deal with these quality of life issues by replacing human driven trains with driverless “metro” trains. They simply get rid of the quality of life issues by getting rid of the person driving the train.

Not done yet with normal freight trains, but I think it is being thought about with the iron ore trains.

Edit: they actually have done it:

https://www.riotinto.com/en/news/storie ... gest-robot

The iron ore trains in Western Australia operate on a closed loop with very, very few road crossings or multiple other trains.

Tugger wrote:

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

Congress can impose a new contract, but POTUS can order them back to work just like the airlines.

Ah, OK, forgot that. Thinking about it I just don't know that Biden would do that. He has already struggled with some union support that has moved to Trumpier ideals. And ordering them back when they are stating the working conditions are unacceptable, not the money, would be tough to explain.

Tugg

bluecrew wrote:

Tugger wrote:

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

Congress can impose a new contract, but POTUS can order them back to work just like the airlines.

Ah, OK, forgot that. Thinking about it I just don't know that Biden would do that. He has already struggled with some union support that has moved to Trumpier ideals. And ordering them back when they are stating the working conditions are unacceptable, not the money, would be tough to explain.

Tugg

A massive railroad strike would be like... pretty chilling stuff, real economic meltdown. Empty supermarket shelves like the worst stretches of COVID, gas stations without gas for weeks, inability to move partially finished goods, industrial supplies, or precursors between sites, thus critically weakening manufacturing and construction.

It could easily kick a recession into a depression that would take a lot longer to get out of. It would be completely catastrophic.

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

bluecrew wrote:

Tugger wrote:

Ah, OK, forgot that. Thinking about it I just don't know that Biden would do that. He has already struggled with some union support that has moved to Trumpier ideals. And ordering them back when they are stating the working conditions are unacceptable, not the money, would be tough to explain.

Tugg

A massive railroad strike would be like... pretty chilling stuff, real economic meltdown. Empty supermarket shelves like the worst stretches of COVID, gas stations without gas for weeks, inability to move partially finished goods, industrial supplies, or precursors between sites, thus critically weakening manufacturing and construction.

It could easily kick a recession into a depression that would take a lot longer to get out of. It would be completely catastrophic.

Agreed, thats why it would be political suicide to allow this strike to take place. One of my best friends is an engineer with Union Pacific, he agrees, they will NEVER be allowed to strike. Much like of AA's pilots tried to go on strike never be allowed.

casinterest wrote:

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

bluecrew wrote:

A massive railroad strike would be like... pretty chilling stuff, real economic meltdown. Empty supermarket shelves like the worst stretches of COVID, gas stations without gas for weeks, inability to move partially finished goods, industrial supplies, or precursors between sites, thus critically weakening manufacturing and construction.

It could easily kick a recession into a depression that would take a lot longer to get out of. It would be completely catastrophic.

Agreed, thats why it would be political suicide to allow this strike to take place. One of my best friends is an engineer with Union Pacific, he agrees, they will NEVER be allowed to strike. Much like of AA's pilots tried to go on strike never be allowed.

It's also why the Unions feel it is in their best interests to present a strike to the management, as they are now in a higher bargaining position. They can supply a strike leading to a depression/recession, or a get new benefits and pay driving some inflation, but either way, they have some serious leverage right now, since the workforce is so tight.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Soft Paywall

Get ready for the first U.S. railroad strike in three decades: Analysis

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... -analysis/

By Bill Stephens | October 27, 2022

Two unions' rejection of tentative contract deals make it more likely that engineers' and conductors' unions will vote no, too, increasing the prospect of a strike

A U.S. railroad strike now seems inevitable.

The Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen overwhelmingly rejected their tentative contract agreement with the railroads this week, following in the footsteps of the Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employees, who turned down their deal earlier this month.

This makes it almost certain that the rank-and-file members of the two largest rail unions — the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen and the SMART-TD union that represents conductors — will vote down their proposed contracts as well. They’re now due to release the results of their ballots on Nov. 21.

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

There is NO WAY there will be a strike. If it came down to it, the POTUS will order them back to work. The supply chain is already too fragile, shutting down rail would be a complete disaster.

ACDC8 wrote:

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

There is NO WAY there will be a strike. If it came down to it, the POTUS will order them back to work. The supply chain is already too fragile, shutting down rail would be a complete disaster.

Hmmm, that sounds a lot like "Government overreach".

DIRECTFLT wrote:

BNSF workers outraged, disappointed after judge grants temporary restraining order blocking strike

A federal judge sided with the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway saying that a strike of 17,000 union workers would "exacerbate our current supply chain crisis."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEKjI0NrByE

bpatus297 wrote:

Isn't the point of a strike to disrupt the supply chain?

dalmit wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

Isn't the point of a strike to disrupt the supply chain?

Yes. But it shouldn't be. A work stoppage should be designed to hurt the employer with minimal inconvenience to the customer. When you hurt innocent citizens with your actions you should be stopped. That's why things like sickouts etc are more effective...it gives the customer an opportunity to make alternate plans that are only minor inconveniences.

I seem to recall a while back about an airline union that would strike for only a day or two and they would not publicize it so the company couldn't really prepare. It had the desired effect because many of the business travelers booked away from that airline until it was resolved. Was that TWA, maybe USAIR. Either way, the government never got involved because it wasn't really interrupting anything to much.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

dalmit wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

Isn't the point of a strike to disrupt the supply chain?

Yes. But it shouldn't be. A work stoppage should be designed to hurt the employer with minimal inconvenience to the customer. When you hurt innocent citizens with your actions you should be stopped. That's why things like sickouts etc are more effective...it gives the customer an opportunity to make alternate plans that are only minor inconveniences.

I seem to recall a while back about an airline union that would strike for only a day or two and they would not publicize it so the company couldn't really prepare. It had the desired effect because many of the business travelers booked away from that airline until it was resolved. Was that TWA, maybe USAIR. Either way, the government never got involved because it wasn't really interrupting anything to much.

IIRC, the union was enjoined from striking in that manner—it’s all or nothing.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Biden calls on Congress to head off potential rail strike

https://apnews.com/article/business-con ... c6fffb230b

Pelosi said the House would not change the terms of the September agreement, which would challenge the Senate to approve the House bill without changes.