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BN747
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:50 am

LMP737 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
I guess we might know soon what DeSantis does if a large number of Haitians and Cubans land on Key West.

"Migrant boat sinks off of Florida during Hurricane Ian 23 missing" Turns out there were 7 survivors and 19 lost at sea"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hurricane- ... -florida/#

With all the new homeless in Florida, that will put even more pressure on the State.


Considering how close the 2018 Florida governors race was I don't think he will be putting them on an airplane.


If anything, he'll now want those Martha's Vineyard Immigrants back! ...that state is a complete mess from the images broadcast.

..now what? Who's gonna rebuild it, MAGA voters?

Who's gonna rebuild that state? Immigrants that's who.. oh the sweet irony of immigrant hatred.
I can't wait to see coming Lincoln Project ads of DeSantis begging immigrants to "please come to Florida, you're new home away from home, We NEED You!"

Egg, face?

Charlie Crist, Immigrants..your new cudgel! Make DeSantis' own his words on immigrants.
Image


Image

BN747
 
pune
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:57 am

lightsaber wrote:
Living near a sanctuary city, we're flooded with an influx of people. The system is overwhelmed. There is no way to keep up with the number of people, in my opinion.


It all depends. For e.g. UK is now reeling with a shortage of manpower and the leadership they have there doesn't have any plans to educate their masses. In fact, the recent decisions taken by the Govt. were so stupid that the pound literally tanked. And apparently, some people from her own party were indulging in shortening the pound and they made a lot of money from it.

Immigration is a tricky subject even for the best politician. Because in any crowd there will be xenophobes and they might be in the minority or majority but they will be loudest for sure. AFAIK, the U.S. was majorly built on the backs of immigrants. Even Singapore and so many other countries, the whole of the Middle East for e.g. can't work without immigrants. And what sociology is telling us is that in most advanced countries, births are less than replacement rates due to a wide number of reasons.

An e.g. of what I mean -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq2uwQjuShs

So, the question arises, how do you make such societies functional? The short answer is immigration as any other would require putting large sums of money that may or may not have the desired result that is needed.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:49 pm

In 2020 in the US, there were approximately 3.8 million births to 3.4 million deaths. But that was mainly due to COVID-19 killing approx. 500,000 additional people (CDC excess deaths). So taking out COVID, we usually have 900,000 more births than deaths. (US Census)

In 2020 the number of legal immigrants was around 700,000. That low number was due to COVID. Normally it's around 1 million. (US Census)
In 2022 DHS reports 1 million asylum seekers have been allowed in the country since Biden took office
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/06/us/p ... ation.html

So the US is adding approximately 2.5 to 3 million more people a year
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:12 pm

Should have added my 2.5 to 3 million does not include those who have overstayed visas or got in without being caught. So maybe another 500,000 on the overstay's (Google) and maybe a couple hundred thousand who aren't caught.

So say 3.2 to 3.7 million more people a year. So in 15 years the US would have a population of around 400 million.
 
luckyone
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:31 pm

"Every illegal/undocumented arrival transported at state expense is that many fewer dollars from your FEMA allotment, since now you've got the extra cash to spend." How about that? Devil's Advocate: They're sending immigrants to cities that want them and have funds and services. On the flipside, I don't live in Florida. Why should my tax dollars go toward people who made a decision to live somewhere where their house can get blown over...and I made the choice not to live in a place like that.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:44 pm

Banging pots, Cubans stage rare protests over Hurricane Ian blackouts
Cubans bang pots at days-long blackout after Ian
HAVANA, Sept 30 (Reuters)

DeSantis better get ready.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/ ... 022-09-30/
 
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seb146
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:45 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... rla-huerta
https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/02/us/marth ... rla-huerta

Former Army counterintelligence agent Perla Huerta went from Tampa Florida to San Antonio to recruit Venezuelan asylum seekers with promises of food and shelter if they boarded the planes. This scheme used Florida taxpayer dollars under a program to deport immigrants from Florida.

I just know DeSantis will use the "it was her, not me" excuse over this...
 
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casinterest
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:45 pm

seb146 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/03/marthas-vineyard-migrant-flight-perla-huerta
https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/02/us/marth ... rla-huerta

Former Army counterintelligence agent Perla Huerta went from Tampa Florida to San Antonio to recruit Venezuelan asylum seekers with promises of food and shelter if they boarded the planes. This scheme used Florida taxpayer dollars under a program to deport immigrants from Florida.

I just know DeSantis will use the "it was her, not me" excuse over this...


Desantis will be looking for immigrants to help rebuild the state . Too bad he wasted all that money on some bad publicity.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 11, 2022 1:20 am

The word is out. Show up and claim asylum even if your country isn't racked by war or natural disaster. It's only going to become a bigger problem.

US immigration: Why Indians are fleeing halfway around the world https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62893926

"Since the beginning of the 2022 fiscal year that started last October, a record 16,290 Indian citizens have been taken into US custody at the Mexican border. The previous high of 8,997 was recorded in 2018.

Experts point to a number of reasons for the increase, including a climate of discrimination in India, an end to pandemic-era restrictions, a perception that the current US administration is welcoming to asylum seekers and the ramping-up of previously established smuggling networks."

India is already the 2nd largest source of legal immigrants to the US.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:59 am

MohawkWeekend wrote:
The word is out. Show up and claim asylum even if your country isn't racked by war or natural disaster. It's only going to become a bigger problem.

US immigration: Why Indians are fleeing halfway around the world https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62893926

"Since the beginning of the 2022 fiscal year that started last October, a record 16,290 Indian citizens have been taken into US custody at the Mexican border. The previous high of 8,997 was recorded in 2018.

Experts point to a number of reasons for the increase, including a climate of discrimination in India, an end to pandemic-era restrictions, a perception that the current US administration is welcoming to asylum seekers and the ramping-up of previously established smuggling networks."

India is already the 2nd largest source of legal immigrants to the US.


Basically expected this to happen.

The Trump administration built a paper wall for family and student visa applications, and then COVID hit and froze DoS resources. Wait times in India for US visitor and student visas are in excess of 400-500 days. Family and B-1, B-2 backlogs are even worse.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-visa ... 7535/amp/1
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:48 pm

After the election, Biden will IMO be forced into some actions. Based on the numbers, it appears that upwards of 6,000 people a day are showing up seeking asylum. He is refusing to allocated enough funds to humanely handle the humanitarian needs of this number IMO because he doesn't want to give ammunition to the Republicans. So even democratic cities are being overwhelmed financially.

As the BBC article noted, the word is out that this Administration is providing a window to get into the US for at least 2 more years. Just show up and claim asylum. A whole industry has sprung up world wide to facilitate travel to the US border from all corners of the globe.

Unfortunately this is all happening at the same time the US is going to enter a recession. What do we do when 10,000 people a day show up at the border?
And for those who scoff at that, every day another country spirals further into despair and the migration grows. Haiti with cholera, Cuba with no power and how many millions fleeing Putin in Russia. All in the last month. What are the odds a hurricane hits Central America?

IMO the US government (all parties) better start dealing with this soon. I've already seen an immigrant mother and infant child begging for money on a street corner near me in NE Ohio.

We should start with more clearly defining what warrants a claim for asylum. Fleeing China or India may not meet that criteria.
 
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par13del
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:14 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
According to my Canadian and Australian friends and colleagues, they cannot understand why Filipinos and Central Americans want to essentially end up in bad areas of US cities upon arrival after waiting so long for visas. From the perspective of many developed world foreigners, conditions in rural America and inner cities are not really much better than developing countries when factoring in cost of living and overall opportunity. Maybe they just don't know...or families just want to be together, as evidenced by three generations in one 4-bedroom house, a phenomenon that can be found in immigrant communities throughout the US.

...or maybe they still believe that once in America the sky is the limit if they are not physically restrained, they still believe in the dream?
Right now there are service jobs being advertised in the USA where they are saying immigration status is no requirement, by the time it does become a requirement, folks could have earned enough to move on to other parts of the USA.
The flip side is how many of these folks are using the USA as a stepping stone to get to Canada, is that even happening?
 
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seb146
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 11, 2022 6:06 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
After the election, Biden will IMO be forced into some actions. Based on the numbers, it appears that upwards of 6,000 people a day are showing up seeking asylum. He is refusing to allocated enough funds to humanely handle the humanitarian needs of this number IMO because he doesn't want to give ammunition to the Republicans. So even democratic cities are being overwhelmed financially.

As the BBC article noted, the word is out that this Administration is providing a window to get into the US for at least 2 more years. Just show up and claim asylum. A whole industry has sprung up world wide to facilitate travel to the US border from all corners of the globe.

Unfortunately this is all happening at the same time the US is going to enter a recession. What do we do when 10,000 people a day show up at the border?
And for those who scoff at that, every day another country spirals further into despair and the migration grows. Haiti with cholera, Cuba with no power and how many millions fleeing Putin in Russia. All in the last month. What are the odds a hurricane hits Central America?

IMO the US government (all parties) better start dealing with this soon. I've already seen an immigrant mother and infant child begging for money on a street corner near me in NE Ohio.

We should start with more clearly defining what warrants a claim for asylum. Fleeing China or India may not meet that criteria.


Allocation of funds must come from the House. The president can not simply snap his fingers and it be done. This must go through Congress starting in the House.

To claim asylum in the United States, one must prove they are persecuted in their home country. They can say that on the application when they reach a legitimate border crossing, not tunneling under or climbing over the wall. Reviewing those cases takes time and work force that is not there. This is why the application process is taking so long.
 
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seb146
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 11, 2022 6:07 pm

par13del wrote:
Right now there are service jobs being advertised in the USA where they are saying immigration status is no requirement, by the time it does become a requirement, folks could have earned enough to move on to other parts of the USA.


Please tell us where this is being posted? I have been to two "sanctuary cities" and have not seen any of this.
 
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casinterest
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 11, 2022 6:57 pm

seb146 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
After the election, Biden will IMO be forced into some actions. Based on the numbers, it appears that upwards of 6,000 people a day are showing up seeking asylum. He is refusing to allocated enough funds to humanely handle the humanitarian needs of this number IMO because he doesn't want to give ammunition to the Republicans. So even democratic cities are being overwhelmed financially.

As the BBC article noted, the word is out that this Administration is providing a window to get into the US for at least 2 more years. Just show up and claim asylum. A whole industry has sprung up world wide to facilitate travel to the US border from all corners of the globe.

Unfortunately this is all happening at the same time the US is going to enter a recession. What do we do when 10,000 people a day show up at the border?
And for those who scoff at that, every day another country spirals further into despair and the migration grows. Haiti with cholera, Cuba with no power and how many millions fleeing Putin in Russia. All in the last month. What are the odds a hurricane hits Central America?

IMO the US government (all parties) better start dealing with this soon. I've already seen an immigrant mother and infant child begging for money on a street corner near me in NE Ohio.

We should start with more clearly defining what warrants a claim for asylum. Fleeing China or India may not meet that criteria.


Allocation of funds must come from the House. The president can not simply snap his fingers and it be done. This must go through Congress starting in the House.

To claim asylum in the United States, one must prove they are persecuted in their home country. They can say that on the application when they reach a legitimate border crossing, not tunneling under or climbing over the wall. Reviewing those cases takes time and work force that is not there. This is why the application process is taking so long.



I am just curious what "more Clearly Defining" Asylum is?
What more do we want to see?

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refu ... lum/asylum
Every year people come to the United States seeking protection because they have suffered persecution or fear that they will suffer persecution due to:

Race
Religion
Nationality
Membership in a particular social group
Political opinion
You may only file this application if you are physically present in the United States, and you are not a U.S. citizen.

If you are eligible for asylum you may be permitted to remain in the United States. To apply for asylum affirmatively or defensively, file a Form I-589, Application for Asylum and for Withholding of Removal, within 1 year of your arrival to the United States. Visit our Obtaining Asylum in the United States page for more information on affirmative and defensive filings. There is no fee to apply for asylum.

The US has always been a refugee country for those that are in need of a place to live free from persecution.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:43 pm

Actually the US hasn't always been a place that people could find refuge. The example of the Jews trying to flee Germany prior to WWII and in particular the case of the Motor Ship St. Louis is one of the reason why we have a liberal asylum policy now.

The point I'm making is just about every single resident of Somilia, Eritrea, Afganistan, Syria, Haiti, Venezuela, Cuba, Congo, Liberia, Libya, Russia, most of Central America, Mexico, Pakistan, Bangladesh and maybe half of Africa could make that claim. And in the year 2022 you can get to the Mexican /US border from each one of those countries.
 
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seb146
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:20 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Actually the US hasn't always been a place that people could find refuge. The example of the Jews trying to flee Germany prior to WWII and in particular the case of the Motor Ship St. Louis is one of the reason why we have a liberal asylum policy now.

The point I'm making is just about every single resident of Somilia, Eritrea, Afganistan, Syria, Haiti, Venezuela, Cuba, Congo, Liberia, Libya, Russia, most of Central America, Mexico, Pakistan, Bangladesh and maybe half of Africa could make that claim. And in the year 2022 you can get to the Mexican /US border from each one of those countries.


Anybody COULD make that claim. It is up to the courts to decide if that claim is legitimate.
 
bpatus297
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:59 pm

seb146 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
Actually the US hasn't always been a place that people could find refuge. The example of the Jews trying to flee Germany prior to WWII and in particular the case of the Motor Ship St. Louis is one of the reason why we have a liberal asylum policy now.

The point I'm making is just about every single resident of Somilia, Eritrea, Afganistan, Syria, Haiti, Venezuela, Cuba, Congo, Liberia, Libya, Russia, most of Central America, Mexico, Pakistan, Bangladesh and maybe half of Africa could make that claim. And in the year 2022 you can get to the Mexican /US border from each one of those countries.


Anybody COULD make that claim. It is up to the courts to decide if that claim is legitimate.


Valid question, how many people can the US absorb and how or who makes the cap? If there is a cap, what changes as far as vetting? We cannot take in the entire world, and at some point, people need to stand up and fight for themselves. The below video does a real good job illustrating some of these issues with immigration. Its from 2010, but still valid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE
 
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casinterest
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:20 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
Actually the US hasn't always been a place that people could find refuge. The example of the Jews trying to flee Germany prior to WWII and in particular the case of the Motor Ship St. Louis is one of the reason why we have a liberal asylum policy now.

The point I'm making is just about every single resident of Somilia, Eritrea, Afganistan, Syria, Haiti, Venezuela, Cuba, Congo, Liberia, Libya, Russia, most of Central America, Mexico, Pakistan, Bangladesh and maybe half of Africa could make that claim. And in the year 2022 you can get to the Mexican /US border from each one of those countries.


Anybody COULD make that claim. It is up to the courts to decide if that claim is legitimate.


Valid question, how many people can the US absorb and how or who makes the cap? If there is a cap, what changes as far as vetting? We cannot take in the entire world, and at some point, people need to stand up and fight for themselves. The below video does a real good job illustrating some of these issues with immigration. Its from 2010, but still valid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE



The issue with throwing a cap is that the US never had one in the past.

Even now, we don't look much different than the way back past of the 40's -60's

Image

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... mmigrants/


What is really wrong with allowing people that want to work , and want a better life to come to the US?

Look at another stat from that page, and we find outthat they are assimilating into the languages of the US.

Image

and working harder.

Image
 
bpatus297
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:13 pm

casinterest wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Anybody COULD make that claim. It is up to the courts to decide if that claim is legitimate.


Valid question, how many people can the US absorb and how or who makes the cap? If there is a cap, what changes as far as vetting? We cannot take in the entire world, and at some point, people need to stand up and fight for themselves. The below video does a real good job illustrating some of these issues with immigration. Its from 2010, but still valid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE



The issue with throwing a cap is that the US never had one in the past.

Even now, we don't look much different than the way back past of the 40's -60's

Image

Did you watch the video?

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... mmigrants/


What is really wrong with allowing people that want to work , and want a better life to come to the US?

Look at another stat from that page, and we find outthat they are assimilating into the languages of the US.

Image

and working harder.

Image
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Thu Oct 13, 2022 1:25 am

Casinterest - Actually your statement " The issue with throwing a cap is that the US never had one in the past" may not be correct

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... mmigrants/

The Pew Report that I think you are using also includes this paragraph -

"The U.S. foreign-born population reached a record 44.8 million in 2018. Since 1965, when U.S. immigration laws replaced a national quota system, the number of immigrants living in the U.S. has more than quadrupled. Immigrants today account for 13.7% of the U.S. population, nearly triple the share (4.8%) in 1970. However, today’s immigrant share remains below the record 14.8% share in 1890, when 9.2 million immigrants lived in the U.S "

The US population in 1890 was 63 million. In 1965 when the cap on immigration was lifted the US population was 195 million. In 2022 the US population is 332 million.

I'm no expert in demographics but I figure we could reach 360 million people by 2030 without trying to hard. Kinda like compound interest.

Based on the asylum criteria listed in an earlier post, I figure at least a billion people could successfully argue for asylum today (based on my list of of countries in my earlier post throwing in Myramar, Sri Lanka, Iran and Iraq). They just need to get here.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:55 pm

Looks like Biden has blinked.
"Biden turning to Trump-era rule to expel Venezuelan migrants". https://news.yahoo.com/biden-turning-tr ... 07682.html

Now is this just till the election is over (wouldn't surprise me) or is this a realization that the current approach is not working?

Excerpt - " Biden last week invoked a Trump-era rule known as Title 42 — which Biden's own Justice Department is fighting in court — to deny Venezuelans fleeing their crisis-torn country the chance to request asylum at the border." Now that makes sense!
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:21 pm

Legally, North Korea is still at war. As is the US with North Korea.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:24 pm

seb146 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
Actually the US hasn't always been a place that people could find refuge. The example of the Jews trying to flee Germany prior to WWII and in particular the case of the Motor Ship St. Louis is one of the reason why we have a liberal asylum policy now.

The point I'm making is just about every single resident of Somilia, Eritrea, Afganistan, Syria, Haiti, Venezuela, Cuba, Congo, Liberia, Libya, Russia, most of Central America, Mexico, Pakistan, Bangladesh and maybe half of Africa could make that claim. And in the year 2022 you can get to the Mexican /US border from each one of those countries.


Anybody COULD make that claim. It is up to the courts to decide if that claim is legitimate.


How many are one, returned by ICE to face the court; two, found a legitimate case of persecution directed that individual
 
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seb146
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:41 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
Actually the US hasn't always been a place that people could find refuge. The example of the Jews trying to flee Germany prior to WWII and in particular the case of the Motor Ship St. Louis is one of the reason why we have a liberal asylum policy now.

The point I'm making is just about every single resident of Somilia, Eritrea, Afganistan, Syria, Haiti, Venezuela, Cuba, Congo, Liberia, Libya, Russia, most of Central America, Mexico, Pakistan, Bangladesh and maybe half of Africa could make that claim. And in the year 2022 you can get to the Mexican /US border from each one of those countries.


Anybody COULD make that claim. It is up to the courts to decide if that claim is legitimate.


How many are one, returned by ICE to face the court; two, found a legitimate case of persecution directed that individual


How many? When a person LEGITIMATELY arrives at a LEGITIMATE border crossing and declares asylum, they have a shot. People who break the law do not. No one is above the law. Allegedly. But that is for another thread. In the case of immigration, if the LEGITIMATELY make it to a LEGITIMATE border check point and ask for asylum, that is completely different than those who break the law. "Liberals" agree with that and understand that. That is not the "open borders" that "liberals" seem to want. Following the law is not "open borders".

I bring this up because every time MAGAs scream about "all 'liberals' want open borders!!" the only people I see saying this are MAGAs. I have yet to see any "liberals" demanding open borders. I have asked on several thread about this and have been met with "but... but... but..." and zero actual open border "liberal" quotes.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:56 am

Liberals aren't stupid. They realize that saying "open borders" is the surest way for the conservatives to take back the Presidency and Congress.

Can you tell me if my earlier statement is incorrect - that based on our current policy, at least a billion people could rightfully claim asylum in the US. They just have to get here.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:41 am

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Liberals aren't stupid. They realize that saying "open borders" is the surest way for the conservatives to take back the Presidency and Congress.

Can you tell me if my earlier statement is incorrect - that based on our current policy, at least a billion people could rightfully claim asylum in the US. They just have to get here.


That’s only now. When desertification really gets going the next 15-20 years, large parts of the midwest will not be able to support agriculture. Big swaths of Latin America and South Asia will be nearly uninhabitable not long after that.

https://mymodernmet.com/parag-khanna-gl ... rming-map/

Asylum seekers will be the least of our worries in terms of mass migration in the future.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:50 am

Aaron747 - you are right.

But there will be plenty of nice temperate land available in Alaska, Canada and Greenland!
 
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casinterest
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:02 am

Aaron747 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
Liberals aren't stupid. They realize that saying "open borders" is the surest way for the conservatives to take back the Presidency and Congress.

Can you tell me if my earlier statement is incorrect - that based on our current policy, at least a billion people could rightfully claim asylum in the US. They just have to get here.


That’s only now. When desertification really gets going the next 15-20 years, large parts of the midwest will not be able to support agriculture. Big swaths of Latin America and South Asia will be nearly uninhabitable not long after that.

https://mymodernmet.com/parag-khanna-gl ... rming-map/

Asylum seekers will be the least of our worries in terms of mass migration in the future.


Just look at it this way, the rising seas will force inland water back into central california and increase the rainfall there :)

Actually though, this is all an argument for why the US used to do a lot of Peace Corp and Nation Builiding exercises outside the US. It doesn't help the US have strong borders if the countries on the other side are too weak to sustain their own borders.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:15 pm

Too many people.

If we can help raise the standard of living, the birth rate will go down.
The Chinese were a very poor nation and implemented strict birth control.

They showed it can be done.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 16105
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:59 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Too many people.

If we can help raise the standard of living, the birth rate will go down.
The Chinese were a very poor nation and implemented strict birth control.

They showed it can be done.



Too many people, or just not enough problem solvers?

Population of over 1 billion in China and India, both of which are smaller than the US.
 
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seb146
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:22 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Liberals aren't stupid. They realize that saying "open borders" is the surest way for the conservatives to take back the Presidency and Congress.

Can you tell me if my earlier statement is incorrect - that based on our current policy, at least a billion people could rightfully claim asylum in the US. They just have to get here.


CLAIMING asylum and actually being GRANTED asylum are two different things. Yes, anyone can CLAIM asylum. At this point, you are just splitting hairs. I am still wanting to know which "liberals" are demanding open borders? Names, please.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:40 pm

I never said liberal's demanded "open borders". Mainly for the reason I stated - they aren't that stupid.

So is my statement correct or not - "that based on our current policy, at least a billion people could rightfully claim asylum in the US. They just have to get here".

Am I wrong?
 
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casinterest
Posts: 16105
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:06 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
I never said liberal's demanded "open borders". Mainly for the reason I stated - they aren't that stupid.

So is my statement correct or not - "that based on our current policy, at least a billion people could rightfully claim asylum in the US. They just have to get here".

Am I wrong?

Anyone can claim asylum if they can meet the US requirements. Just like anyone can drive if they pass a test. in theory there are now close to 7 billion that could claim assylum. Most wouldn't want too, but maybe a few hundred million want too.
 
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seb146
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:26 am

MohawkWeekend wrote:
I never said liberal's demanded "open borders". Mainly for the reason I stated - they aren't that stupid.

So is my statement correct or not - "that based on our current policy, at least a billion people could rightfully claim asylum in the US. They just have to get here".

Am I wrong?


I agreed with your statement that anyone could claim asylum as long as they follow the rules. I said that in my previous post.

As far as "open borders" that is a right wing talking point every time immigration comes up. They start whining and screaming about how "all liberals want open borders" but never ever post a source.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:03 am

New York City mayor declares state of emergency over busing of migrants from Texas

Mayor Eric Adams said the city needs emergency funding to provide shelter to migrants and other people without housing. He also asked El Paso to stop sending migrants there.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/07 ... emergency/

Hey Mayor Adams, the migrants are asking to be bused from El Paso to NYC. That's the part the MSM seems to overlook... Instead, the MSM make it all about Gov. Abbott....

White House asked Democratic El Paso mayor not to declare migrant state of emergency
El Paso Mayor Oscar Leeser reportedly mentioned White House request in private conversation with El Paso City Councilmember Claudia Rodriguez

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/white- ... ncy-report
 
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Aaron747
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:29 am

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Too many people.

If we can help raise the standard of living, the birth rate will go down.
The Chinese were a very poor nation and implemented strict birth control.

They showed it can be done.


And how do you propose to do this on a global scale? Would not work in developed countries because freedom, and would not work in developing countries because religion.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:34 am

No easy answers. But access to birth control freedom is absolutely essential. Worldwide.

Here in Ohio, I have two friends who have fostered numerous children (infants and newborns) from drug addict mothers. If I recall correctly, one of the women has given birth to 5 children all who have been taken away from her.

Maybe we pay people not to have children.
 
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seb146
Posts: 24969
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:11 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
New York City mayor declares state of emergency over busing of migrants from Texas

Mayor Eric Adams said the city needs emergency funding to provide shelter to migrants and other people without housing. He also asked El Paso to stop sending migrants there.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/07 ... emergency/

Hey Mayor Adams, the migrants are asking to be bused from El Paso to NYC. That's the part the MSM seems to overlook... Instead, the MSM make it all about Gov. Abbott....


Could you provide a source about migrants asking to be bused to NYC? I can't seem to find that information in the link.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:20 pm

seb146 wrote:
Could you provide a source about migrants asking to be bused to NYC? I can't seem to find that information in the link.


It was mentioned in the first minute of this broadcast. That's all I've got for now.

https://youtu.be/eX-23eqYOqU

https://nypost.com/2022/10/17/white-hou ... y-sources/

https://www.elpasotexas.gov/Migrant-Crisis

The current wave of migrants coming to El Paso began in April 2022 and the sudden surge we are seeing now started in late August. The number of people released to the City of El Paso and local non-government organizations (NGOs; i.e., humanitarian agencies) has grown from approximately 250 per day in early August to as high as over 1,000 per day during the month of September 2022. The number fluctuates daily and is currently averaging 900 per day. The City of El Paso places our priority on the individual migrant, providing food and water, connectivity, transportation assistance, and temporary shelter if needed.

The people crossing come from all parts of the world to escape economic devastation and extreme crime. The situation is dynamic. However, the main countries migrants are coming from today are Venezuela, Ecuador, El Salvador, Haiti, Nicaragua, and Cuba. Though the numbers have been as high as 90% and as low as 50% from Venezuela, the number is currently holding at approximately 70%. The remainder of the migrants is from other countries including Ecuador, El Salvador, Haiti, Nicaragua, and Cuba.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1926
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:54 pm

seb146 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
I never said liberal's demanded "open borders". Mainly for the reason I stated - they aren't that stupid.

So is my statement correct or not - "that based on our current policy, at least a billion people could rightfully claim asylum in the US. They just have to get here".

Am I wrong?


I agreed with your statement that anyone could claim asylum as long as they follow the rules. I said that in my previous post.

As far as "open borders" that is a right wing talking point every time immigration comes up. They start whining and screaming about how "all liberals want open borders" but never ever post a source.


People are using weasel words instead of having a real debate. “Intruder” becomes “asylum seeker” becomes “undocumented American.” These things are virtually synonymous. A asylum seeker is currently defined as anyone who wants to have a life in the US. That’s open borders.

Meanwhile, let’s grant that many people on the right did not consider Obama an American. So that happened as well - and was also wrong.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 16105
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:56 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
I never said liberal's demanded "open borders". Mainly for the reason I stated - they aren't that stupid.

So is my statement correct or not - "that based on our current policy, at least a billion people could rightfully claim asylum in the US. They just have to get here".

Am I wrong?


I agreed with your statement that anyone could claim asylum as long as they follow the rules. I said that in my previous post.

As far as "open borders" that is a right wing talking point every time immigration comes up. They start whining and screaming about how "all liberals want open borders" but never ever post a source.


People are using weasel words instead of having a real debate. “Intruder” becomes “asylum seeker” becomes “undocumented American.” These things are virtually synonymous. A asylum seeker is currently defined as anyone who wants to have a life in the US. That’s open borders.



Do you realize what you just wrote in order to twist Asylum into "Open Borders"? Assylum does not mean open borders.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1926
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 19, 2022 5:53 pm

casinterest wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:

I agreed with your statement that anyone could claim asylum as long as they follow the rules. I said that in my previous post.

As far as "open borders" that is a right wing talking point every time immigration comes up. They start whining and screaming about how "all liberals want open borders" but never ever post a source.


People are using weasel words instead of having a real debate. “Intruder” becomes “asylum seeker” becomes “undocumented American.” These things are virtually synonymous. A asylum seeker is currently defined as anyone who wants to have a life in the US. That’s open borders.



Do you realize what you just wrote in order to twist Asylum into "Open Borders"? Assylum does not mean open borders.


If asylum is incorrectly defined broadly enough, then yes, it means open borders. It means everyone who comes here with the expectation of a better life is welcome. And will never be deported. That is where we are. I don’t see why people are so ashamed and awkward about their own political views. This is what you believe.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 12237
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:01 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
If asylum is incorrectly defined broadly enough, then yes, it means open borders. It means everyone who comes here with the expectation of a better life is welcome. And will never be deported. That is where we are. I don’t see why people are so ashamed and awkward about their own political views. This is what you believe.

Yet what you are claiming is not true. It may be your fear but it is not accurate. The vast majority of intercepted illegal crossers are returned back across the border.

And again it always come back to the need for both parties to work together to come up with a plan to improve the situation. Pointing fingers and fearmongering is such an annoying and losing thing to do.

Tugg
 
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Aaron747
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:01 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
casinterest wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

People are using weasel words instead of having a real debate. “Intruder” becomes “asylum seeker” becomes “undocumented American.” These things are virtually synonymous. A asylum seeker is currently defined as anyone who wants to have a life in the US. That’s open borders.



Do you realize what you just wrote in order to twist Asylum into "Open Borders"? Assylum does not mean open borders.


If asylum is incorrectly defined broadly enough, then yes, it means open borders. It means everyone who comes here with the expectation of a better life is welcome. And will never be deported. That is where we are. I don’t see why people are so ashamed and awkward about their own political views. This is what you believe.


That is not where we are, and DHS publishes monthly reports on where we are. If you, as a taxpayer, choose to ignore them, that's your choice. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not their own facts. 'Open Borders' would mean the CBP payroll no longer has a need to report to work.

https://www.cbp.gov/careers/apply-now-usbp

The last WH sought to hire more than 5000 CBP agents, and could barely get 120. There is much more at work than party mudslinging.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 155869002/
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:57 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
People are using weasel words instead of having a real debate. “Intruder” becomes “asylum seeker” becomes “undocumented American.” These things are virtually synonymous. A asylum seeker is currently defined as anyone who wants to have a life in the US. That’s open borders.


Calling an illegal alien an undocumented immigrant is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist.
 
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seb146
Posts: 24969
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:03 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Could you provide a source about migrants asking to be bused to NYC? I can't seem to find that information in the link.


It was mentioned in the first minute of this broadcast. That's all I've got for now.

https://youtu.be/eX-23eqYOqU


I take issue with the presenter saying they are illegal. As long as they arrive at a border check point and fill out the paperwork and declarations, they are not illegal. Not all of these legal asylum seekers want to end up in New York or Chicago or the vice-president's lawn. Some have family in different cities around the country, that's fine. But, to make it sound like they all want to be dropped off in some far-flung city is just wrong.
 
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seb146
Posts: 24969
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:04 am

LCDFlight wrote:
casinterest wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

People are using weasel words instead of having a real debate. “Intruder” becomes “asylum seeker” becomes “undocumented American.” These things are virtually synonymous. A asylum seeker is currently defined as anyone who wants to have a life in the US. That’s open borders.



Do you realize what you just wrote in order to twist Asylum into "Open Borders"? Assylum does not mean open borders.


If asylum is incorrectly defined broadly enough, then yes, it means open borders. It means everyone who comes here with the expectation of a better life is welcome. And will never be deported. That is where we are. I don’t see why people are so ashamed and awkward about their own political views. This is what you believe.


There is only one side equating legal asylum seekers with open borders. It ain't Democrats!
 
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casinterest
Posts: 16105
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:30 am

LCDFlight wrote:
casinterest wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

People are using weasel words instead of having a real debate. “Intruder” becomes “asylum seeker” becomes “undocumented American.” These things are virtually synonymous. A asylum seeker is currently defined as anyone who wants to have a life in the US. That’s open borders.



Do you realize what you just wrote in order to twist Asylum into "Open Borders"? Assylum does not mean open borders.


If asylum is incorrectly defined broadly enough, then yes, it means open borders. It means everyone who comes here with the expectation of a better life is welcome. And will never be deported. That is where we are. I don’t see why people are so ashamed and awkward about their own political views. This is what you believe.



As mentioned already. The stats say there are not open borders.

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files ... fy2021.pdf

Heck, Biden did better than Trump in 2021 if that is your main concern,

Asylum Grants
The total number of persons granted asylum in the United States decreased 43
percent from 30,964 in 2020 to 17,692 in 2021. USCIS granted asylum
affirmatively to 10,325 people in 2021, a decrease of 37 percent from 2020
and of 62 percent from 2019; and EOIR immigration judges granted defensive
asylum to 7,367 people in 2021, a decrease of 50 percent from 2020 and of
61 percent from 2019 (Figure 5)
 
bpatus297
Posts: 899
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: ‘Sanctuary’ cities navigate migrant influx from GOP states

Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:07 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
casinterest wrote:


Do you realize what you just wrote in order to twist Asylum into "Open Borders"? Assylum does not mean open borders.


If asylum is incorrectly defined broadly enough, then yes, it means open borders. It means everyone who comes here with the expectation of a better life is welcome. And will never be deported. That is where we are. I don’t see why people are so ashamed and awkward about their own political views. This is what you believe.


That is not where we are, and DHS publishes monthly reports on where we are. If you, as a taxpayer, choose to ignore them, that's your choice. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not their own facts. 'Open Borders' would mean the CBP payroll no longer has a need to report to work.

https://www.cbp.gov/careers/apply-now-usbp

The last WH sought to hire more than 5000 CBP agents, and could barely get 120. There is much more at work than party mudslinging.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 155869002/


There is no such thing as a CBP agent, There are Border Patrol Agents, Air and Marine Interdiction Agents, and Office of Field Operations Officers.

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