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SL1200MK2
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: 2022 US Elections

Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:33 pm

bhill wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
leader1 wrote:

What liberties have you lost the last two years? Just curious, but do you think we’re living in some dictatorship?


He's no longer able to have an abortion.


Not quite...HE can have all the Viagara and condoms he wants, but SHE cannot have ANYTHING!


It’s that sort of grumpy old man vibe that we see so often that I always figured viagra would fix.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:48 pm

bennett123 wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
The only high level certainty seems to be confirming De Santis as front runner for GoP 2024 nomination.

Trump doesn't like that:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63563862

:rotfl:


IMO somebody thinks he is Tony Soprano.


Tony Soprano knew how to manage people and charm women. Trump is remarkably distant from either, only a hero in his own mind
 
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NIKV69
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:21 am

StarAC17 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Beto went for the trifecta of losses....this time for the Governorship. Glad he could divert all of that money to his campaigns...


Don't run in Texas saying that you are going to regulate guns.


Actually he said he would take them from you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk47PWI4aq8
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:26 am

Oh speaking of Trump, how did he spend Election Day? Spreading election fraud misinformation and breaking through the misinformation filters on social media through influencers and his followers:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/0 ... s-00065977

Cannot.go.soon.enough
 
Avatar2go
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:44 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Oh speaking of Trump, how did he spend Election Day? Spreading election fraud misinformation and breaking through the misinformation filters on social media through influencers and his followers:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/0 ... s-00065977

Cannot.go.soon.enough


We had people here reflecting his conspiracy theories yesterday as well. Anyone who doesn't think the MAGA's are a cult, just has to watch how they operate. The leader speaks the gospel, and the faithful spread it far and wide on his behalf. Makes absolutely no difference whether it's factual or true.

By doing this, he can make the election officials scramble, which I'm sure he enjoys. It's a form of power he commands. But like all cult leaders, he has no actual power, other than that his followers give him.

The officials have no choice but to react, as the integrity of what they do has to be absolute, and it could affect the election if people are falsely persuaded there are errors.

Thus far, he has done this with impunity, but hopefully his reckoning is coming soon.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:10 am

NIKV69 wrote:
The Press Sec tipper her hand when she said the races won't be decided for days. So this will probably be a total circus since all of the Dem candidates have been told not to concede on election night. Remember the election denying began with Bush and Trump by the Dems not the other way around. Mail in voting is terrible and is making elections harder than they have to be.


Just wondering if we have seen these refusals to concede on election night? Bueller?

AZ elections expert was just on CNN explaining the Maricopa count takes a long time to process because they mandated a five-person election board to observe signature verifications. So like, duh, if people want these things to be checked perfectly (and that's what the whiners and auditors were on about all last year), that will take time.
 
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dampfnudel
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:11 am

The biggest surprise for me from last night was DeSantis winning Miami-Dade. Anyone who thought Florida was starting to turn purple may have been premature.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:29 am

In case anyone was wondering, according to the NY Times tracker, the two biggest Senate vote margins were:

South Dakota

John Thune (R) wins w/70%

and

Hawaii

Brian Schatz (D) wins w/73%
 
BN747
Posts: 8083
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:33 am

So, the GOP ran on Crime, Economy and Immigration... full throttle!

...where's the plans of resolution they ran on?

Oh yeah...just as buoyant as Hershcel Walker speak..

BN747
 
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NIKV69
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:37 am

Aaron747 wrote:

AZ elections expert was just on CNN explaining the Maricopa count takes a long time to process because they mandated a five-person election board to observe signature verifications. So like, duh, if people want these things to be checked perfectly (and that's what the whiners and auditors were on about all last year), that will take time.


More reason to deep six mail in voting. It's terrible.

dampfnudel wrote:
The biggest surprise for me from last night was DeSantis winning Miami-Dade. Anyone who thought Florida was starting to turn purple may have been premature.


Greatest news of the night. DeSantis can carry OH, NC, FL etc.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:19 am

NIKV69 wrote:
More reason to deep six mail in voting. It's terrible.


Terrible for people who can’t wait a few days. Great for busy people and others who might be temporarily out of state for various reasons.

Without a mandated election holiday, it’s a necessary compromise.
 
Kent350787
Posts: 2620
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:27 am

[threeid][/threeid]
Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
More reason to deep six mail in voting. It's terrible.


Terrible for people who can’t wait a few days. Great for busy people and others who might be temporarily out of state for various reasons.

Without a mandated election holiday, it’s a necessary compromise.


And the issue is more why the system can’t be made to work in the US, when it works with integrity in other jurisdictions.
 
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NIKV69
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:41 am

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
More reason to deep six mail in voting. It's terrible.


Terrible for people who can’t wait a few days. Great for busy people and others who might be temporarily out of state for various reasons.

Without a mandated election holiday, it’s a necessary compromise.


Out of state temporarily get an absentee ballot and we should have our elections on Sunday mandated election federal and state holiday
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:37 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
More reason to deep six mail in voting. It's terrible.


Terrible for people who can’t wait a few days. Great for busy people and others who might be temporarily out of state for various reasons.

Without a mandated election holiday, it’s a necessary compromise.


Out of state temporarily get an absentee ballot and we should have our elections on Sunday mandated election federal and state holiday


Absentee and mail-in ballots are procedurally the same on the reception end, but whatevs.

But yes, a mandated Sunday holiday would be far better than what we’re doing now.
 
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casinterest
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:58 am

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Terrible for people who can’t wait a few days. Great for busy people and others who might be temporarily out of state for various reasons.

Without a mandated election holiday, it’s a necessary compromise.


Out of state temporarily get an absentee ballot and we should have our elections on Sunday mandated election federal and state holiday


Absentee and mail-in ballots are procedurally the same on the reception end, but whatevs.

But yes, a mandated Sunday holiday would be far better than what we’re doing now.


We could just do electronic voting, Everyone gets a phone call from a poll worker to verify name/address on their cell, gets the ballot, and votes with it.
Anyone that wants to do paper voting just has to walk in on a 2 week early voting period.
 
apodino
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:22 am

Looking back at my thread starter, I was wrong on New Hampshire and that was a huge polling miss. I was right on PA though, my gut just told me that Fetterman would pull it off and he did.

There is no doubt that the biggest loser on the night is Trump. It turns out Republicans who stood up to him and/or were not crazy won, and the hand picked MAGAs mostly lost. (AZ is still out, and who knows about GA in the special election) I think short term this means that if Merrick Garland does indict Trump, I am not so sure that the GOP establishment will defend him anymore. Trump lost a lot of political capital with this election, and Ron DeSantis has gained a ton, and he is a big winner of the night.

I am pro-life, but Abortion rights won on every state it was on the Ballot. I seriously believe that people in the pro-life movement need to strongly think about other ways to reduce abortions, because it isn't going to happen through legislation anytime soon.

As for other ballot questions, MA voters approved a millionaires tax while CA voters rejected one. A couple of states approved minimum wage increases. NV is too close to call, but they may be implementing rank choice voting.

But the big winners on the night are DeSantis, the FL GOP, and actually the NY GOP even though Zeldin lost. The big losers are Trump, Sean Patrick Maloney, the MAGA movement, and retreaded Democrats (Beto, Stacey Abrams, and Charlie Crist)
 
leader1
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:25 am

apodino wrote:
But the big winners on the night are DeSantis, the FL GOP, and actually the NY GOP even though Zeldin lost. The big losers are Trump, Sean Patrick Maloney, the MAGA movement, and retreaded Democrats (Beto, Stacey Abrams, and Charlie Crist)


I wouldn’t consider the NY GOP a winner just yet. If they break the Dem supermajorities in the State Senate and Legislature, then yes, but some elections are too close to call. They did well with the federal congressional elections in suburban NYC and should be applauded for that, but I wouldn’t give platitudes until the state-level races are determined.

And Zeldin was an awful candidate. He wasn’t electable in NY and not because he’s Republican, but because he wasn’t likable. He came across as angry and he couldn’t commit to abortion rights, which scared off a lot of women. He was also too close to Trump and his congressional voting record was abysmal for NY, especially his district which has been negatively affected by the SALT deduction cap. I couldn’t in good conscience vote for him because of that and his closeness to Trump, but I didn’t vote for Hochul either.

Finally, if you want to blame someone, blame NY state senate leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins. She botched the redistricting by getting too greedy, got sued, which resulted in a Cuomo-appointed judge forcing fairer redistricting. Oddly enough, she was one of the key figures in Cuomo’s ouster, so it’s ironic he indirectly got his revenge. Furthermore, her failed bail reform policy, leading to an increase in crime, drove many suburban NYC voters to the GOP. Her outright refusal to even consider making changes to it just showcases her incompetence and hubris even though a Dem mayor begged her to scrap it and warned it would cause them problems. She needs to go or else the Dems are in trouble in two years.
 
marcelh
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 6:14 am

Watching from the other side of the pond how it’s unfolding it’s clear that the GOP is going for the smarter “MAGA 2.0” - like DeSantis. IMHO not necessarily better for the world compared to MAGA 1.0.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 6:29 am

Frisch and Boebert are in a dead heat in Colorado. Frisch has a tiny lead but there is sure to be a recount, either way.
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2640
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 6:44 am

leader1 wrote:
apodino wrote:
But the big winners on the night are DeSantis, the FL GOP, and actually the NY GOP even though Zeldin lost. The big losers are Trump, Sean Patrick Maloney, the MAGA movement, and retreaded Democrats (Beto, Stacey Abrams, and Charlie Crist)


Finally, if you want to blame someone, blame NY state senate leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins. She botched the redistricting by getting too greedy, got sued, which resulted in a Cuomo-appointed judge forcing fairer redistricting. Oddly enough, she was one of the key figures in Cuomo’s ouster, so it’s ironic he indirectly got his revenge. Furthermore, her failed bail reform policy, leading to an increase in crime, drove many suburban NYC voters to the GOP. Her outright refusal to even consider making changes to it just showcases her incompetence and hubris even though a Dem mayor begged her to scrap it and warned it would cause them problems. She needs to go or else the Dems are in trouble in two years.


This outcome really shows the power of redistricting. In Florida, Republicans were able to implement their plan, which flipped seats. In New York, Democrats were not able to implement their plan, so the seats flipped the other way. Luria was also victim of redistricting in Virginia.

I'd like to see the non-partisan model take over in the US, but doubt it will happen because it's too powerful a tool for politicians to give up.
 
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NIKV69
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:03 pm

Hey we forgot about Marijuana. Still don't get how it's not legal country wide.

https://time.com/6231201/marijuana-lega ... ions-2022/
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4677
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:45 pm

NIKV69 wrote:

Newsom is too far left to win a general he will carry CA and NY but struggle in OH, FL and the other states he needs. Even though the Dems had a better night than expected their party is still being dragged too far left by the progressives and that is an issue they have to solve to win the white house.


I agree Newsom won't win but not for the same reasons.

What is your definition of left? Economically progressive or culturally progressive. I would argue that Newsom is economically centrist and in the pockets of big business and a lot of his gentrification plans when he was mayor of SF are the reason that SF has the homeless problem it has now. He is in bed with Hollywood which much of the nation doesn't really like when they get political, we like the movies but that's it. We like them less and less because of the SJW elements brought in to modern movies. Off Topic but the reason why Top Gun was by far the highest grossing movie this year because it didn't succumb to the SJW nonsense.

On the outside he is this pretty boy who says nice things but a lot of people see through it. I would look at the actions and not the words and I don't think he has a chance

I would argue the economic progressives who didn't make a big deal over social issues outside of some of the big ones. (Abortion rights is a big one, gender issues are not) won and won big. If there are any dem upsets then its probably the candidates that were afraid to have a backbone.

https://twitter.com/krystalball/status/ ... G3nJMsAAAA

https://twitter.com/krystalball/status/ ... gr%5Etweet

Tim Ryan didn't win (that may still be being counted) but Fetterman did and Kelly did. Beto and Abrams didn't. Who is left of who?
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:04 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Frisch and Boebert are in a dead heat in Colorado. Frisch has a tiny lead but there is sure to be a recount, either way.


Hope Frisch pull it off. Boebert is more interested in making a show then actually doing her job anyway and deserves to go.

NIKV69 wrote:
Hey we forgot about Marijuana. Still don't get how it's not legal country wide.

https://time.com/6231201/marijuana-lega ... ions-2022/


As someone living in Maryland right now I certainly didn't forget :). (And yes, I voted "yes" to legalization).

I personally don't smoke joint but if worse stuff like alcohol and cigarettes are legal, why is weed illegal? The smell of weed is not that much worse than cigarette anyway.

The statewide result is showing that legalization is somewhat bipartisan anyway - it's passing in all but one county (Garrett County, which is in far western Maryland and may as well be part of West Virginia).

leader1 wrote:
And Zeldin was an awful candidate. He wasn’t electable in NY and not because he’s Republican, but because he wasn’t likable. He came across as angry and he couldn’t commit to abortion rights, which scared off a lot of women. He was also too close to Trump and his congressional voting record was abysmal for NY, especially his district which has been negatively affected by the SALT deduction cap. I couldn’t in good conscience vote for him because of that and his closeness to Trump, but I didn’t vote for Hochul either.


Well, part of Dems' strategy is to make sure the craziest extreme GOP candidates win primary and let that person scare voters away. It's working to certain extent.
 
leader1
Posts: 494
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:08 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
leader1 wrote:
apodino wrote:
But the big winners on the night are DeSantis, the FL GOP, and actually the NY GOP even though Zeldin lost. The big losers are Trump, Sean Patrick Maloney, the MAGA movement, and retreaded Democrats (Beto, Stacey Abrams, and Charlie Crist)


Finally, if you want to blame someone, blame NY state senate leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins. She botched the redistricting by getting too greedy, got sued, which resulted in a Cuomo-appointed judge forcing fairer redistricting. Oddly enough, she was one of the key figures in Cuomo’s ouster, so it’s ironic he indirectly got his revenge. Furthermore, her failed bail reform policy, leading to an increase in crime, drove many suburban NYC voters to the GOP. Her outright refusal to even consider making changes to it just showcases her incompetence and hubris even though a Dem mayor begged her to scrap it and warned it would cause them problems. She needs to go or else the Dems are in trouble in two years.


This outcome really shows the power of redistricting. In Florida, Republicans were able to implement their plan, which flipped seats. In New York, Democrats were not able to implement their plan, so the seats flipped the other way. Luria was also victim of redistricting in Virginia.

I'd like to see the non-partisan model take over in the US, but doubt it will happen because it's too powerful a tool for politicians to give up.


I was wrong, and I totally forgot about this. NY State’s constitution has enshrined fair redistricting. This was voted on and it is the will of the people to have it this way. The judge who ruled on this case was just following the law. Yet some commentators on the far left are still trying to pin the blame on Cuomo for selecting this judge. They don’t know their facts. Maybe the judges would have allowed a slightly Dem-favorable redrawn map, but Andrea Stewart-Cousins just couldn’t help herself. Blame her for the NY Dem debacle.

https://www.nyirc.gov/about
 
leader1
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:30 pm

These are the governor’s election results in NYC the last three elections. Absolutely stunning increases for the GOP for this last election. If the GOP fielded a moderate and somewhat competent candidate, there would have been more red and Hochul would have lost. Candidates matter.

https://twitter.com/SR_spatial/status/1 ... w12t76_1Fw
 
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seb146
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:30 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
leader1 wrote:
And Zeldin was an awful candidate. He wasn’t electable in NY and not because he’s Republican, but because he wasn’t likable. He came across as angry and he couldn’t commit to abortion rights, which scared off a lot of women. He was also too close to Trump and his congressional voting record was abysmal for NY, especially his district which has been negatively affected by the SALT deduction cap. I couldn’t in good conscience vote for him because of that and his closeness to Trump, but I didn’t vote for Hochul either.


Well, part of Dems' strategy is to make sure the craziest extreme GOP candidates win primary and let that person scare voters away. It's working to certain extent.


What are you talking about? Democrats run on things like saving Social Security and Medicare and equality for all. Republicans run on "woke liberal mobs will take your guns" and "woke liberal mobs want to change children's genders" and taking away Social Security and Medicare and voting rights. If people do not vote for MAGAs, MAGAs only have themselves to blame. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
 
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NIKV69
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:35 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
As someone living in Maryland right now I certainly didn't forget :). (And yes, I voted "yes" to legalization).

I personally don't smoke joint but if worse stuff like alcohol and cigarettes are legal, why is weed illegal? The smell of weed is not that much worse than cigarette anyway.



Not only that but I don't want my police chasing people smoking weed, I want them looking for rapists and murderers and such.
 
leader1
Posts: 494
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:38 pm

seb146 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
leader1 wrote:
And Zeldin was an awful candidate. He wasn’t electable in NY and not because he’s Republican, but because he wasn’t likable. He came across as angry and he couldn’t commit to abortion rights, which scared off a lot of women. He was also too close to Trump and his congressional voting record was abysmal for NY, especially his district which has been negatively affected by the SALT deduction cap. I couldn’t in good conscience vote for him because of that and his closeness to Trump, but I didn’t vote for Hochul either.


Well, part of Dems' strategy is to make sure the craziest extreme GOP candidates win primary and let that person scare voters away. It's working to certain extent.


What are you talking about? Democrats run on things like saving Social Security and Medicare and equality for all. Republicans run on "woke liberal mobs will take your guns" and "woke liberal mobs want to change children's genders" and taking away Social Security and Medicare and voting rights. If people do not vote for MAGAs, MAGAs only have themselves to blame. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.


Dems funded MAGAts in several states to ensure they won GOP primaries. Absolutely brilliant strategy it turned out to be. Heck, if I were them, I absolutely would have done the same thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... primaries/
 
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casinterest
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:41 pm

leader1 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:

Well, part of Dems' strategy is to make sure the craziest extreme GOP candidates win primary and let that person scare voters away. It's working to certain extent.


What are you talking about? Democrats run on things like saving Social Security and Medicare and equality for all. Republicans run on "woke liberal mobs will take your guns" and "woke liberal mobs want to change children's genders" and taking away Social Security and Medicare and voting rights. If people do not vote for MAGAs, MAGAs only have themselves to blame. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.


Dems funded MAGAts in several states to ensure they won GOP primaries. Absolutely brilliant strategy it turned out to be. Heck, if I were them, I absolutely would have done the same thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... primaries/



This is how it will have to play out in areas where the Parties pick their districts. The other party will have to booster the worst candidate to have a chance.

It is time for Ranked choice voting.
 
flyguy89
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:59 pm

leader1 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:

Well, part of Dems' strategy is to make sure the craziest extreme GOP candidates win primary and let that person scare voters away. It's working to certain extent.


What are you talking about? Democrats run on things like saving Social Security and Medicare and equality for all. Republicans run on "woke liberal mobs will take your guns" and "woke liberal mobs want to change children's genders" and taking away Social Security and Medicare and voting rights. If people do not vote for MAGAs, MAGAs only have themselves to blame. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.


Dems funded MAGAts in several states to ensure they won GOP primaries. Absolutely brilliant strategy it turned out to be. Heck, if I were them, I absolutely would have done the same thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... primaries/

Unless Lake ends up pulling a W in Arizona…she was also one of thems funded by the Dems in the primary.
 
leader1
Posts: 494
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:03 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
leader1 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

What are you talking about? Democrats run on things like saving Social Security and Medicare and equality for all. Republicans run on "woke liberal mobs will take your guns" and "woke liberal mobs want to change children's genders" and taking away Social Security and Medicare and voting rights. If people do not vote for MAGAs, MAGAs only have themselves to blame. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.


Dems funded MAGAts in several states to ensure they won GOP primaries. Absolutely brilliant strategy it turned out to be. Heck, if I were them, I absolutely would have done the same thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... primaries/

Unless Lake ends up pulling a W in Arizona…she was also one of thems funded by the Dems in the primary.


True, but their strategy resulted in way more wins than losses.
 
luckyone
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:28 pm

leader1 wrote:
These are the governor’s election results in NYC the last three elections. Absolutely stunning increases for the GOP for this last election. If the GOP fielded a moderate and somewhat competent candidate, there would have been more red and Hochul would have lost. Candidates matter.

https://twitter.com/SR_spatial/status/1 ... w12t76_1Fw

It’s not all that surprising. One of the reason politics is so toxic right now is we’re seeing the parties realign. This happens every 40-50 years or so as old generations die out and economic models change. Trump was both a symptom and then subsequently a driver of that—namely that blue collar populism is very much a GOP plank where it really wasn’t in the decades prior. In particular, Trump’s trade policy is a significant departure from the policies pursued by Nixon and Reagan (remember him? Mr. Unlimited Free Trade), and really isn’t out of line with union-supported policies of liberals of yore.
 
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casinterest
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:48 pm

luckyone wrote:
leader1 wrote:
These are the governor’s election results in NYC the last three elections. Absolutely stunning increases for the GOP for this last election. If the GOP fielded a moderate and somewhat competent candidate, there would have been more red and Hochul would have lost. Candidates matter.

https://twitter.com/SR_spatial/status/1 ... w12t76_1Fw

It’s not all that surprising. One of the reason politics is so toxic right now is we’re seeing the parties realign. This happens every 40-50 years or so as old generations die out and economic models change. Trump was both a symptom and then subsequently a driver of that—namely that blue collar populism is very much a GOP plank where it really wasn’t in the decades prior. In particular, Trump’s trade policy is a significant departure from the policies pursued by Nixon and Reagan (remember him? Mr. Unlimited Free Trade), and really isn’t out of line with union-supported policies of liberals of yore.




If you look at that twitter feed closer, you will realize there was a 3rd or 4th candidate(too lazy to look it up rght now) running as well in 2014/2018.

Those districts may be getting more conservative, but it also depends on the candidates. Think of the Ultra orthodox Jewish communities. How many are actually going to vote for a woman?
The candidates do matter.
 
luckyone
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Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:56 pm

casinterest wrote:
luckyone wrote:
leader1 wrote:
These are the governor’s election results in NYC the last three elections. Absolutely stunning increases for the GOP for this last election. If the GOP fielded a moderate and somewhat competent candidate, there would have been more red and Hochul would have lost. Candidates matter.

https://twitter.com/SR_spatial/status/1 ... w12t76_1Fw

It’s not all that surprising. One of the reason politics is so toxic right now is we’re seeing the parties realign. This happens every 40-50 years or so as old generations die out and economic models change. Trump was both a symptom and then subsequently a driver of that—namely that blue collar populism is very much a GOP plank where it really wasn’t in the decades prior. In particular, Trump’s trade policy is a significant departure from the policies pursued by Nixon and Reagan (remember him? Mr. Unlimited Free Trade), and really isn’t out of line with union-supported policies of liberals of yore.




If you look at that twitter feed closer, you will realize there was a 3rd or 4th candidate(too lazy to look it up rght now) running as well in 2014/2018.

Those districts may be getting more conservative, but it also depends on the candidates. Think of the Ultra orthodox Jewish communities. How many are actually going to vote for a woman?
The candidates do matter.

Very true. For all the hemhawwing, the old school Rust Belters didn’t want to vote for a woman in 2016. The Chassidic also went hard for Trump.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4677
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:42 pm

luckyone wrote:
Very true. For all the hemhawwing, the old school Rust Belters didn’t want to vote for a woman in 2016. The Chassidic also went hard for Trump.


Perhaps it was the woman who was running that was the problem. Her predecessor had no problem winning those votes and if he could have run for a 3rd term would have won them again. If Obama could have run against Trump he would have steamrolled him.

I initially had that thought after the 2016 election but as time as gone on I realized that Hillary Clinton was a terrible candidate, or was getting terrible advice (probably both). She was qualified and probably would have governed well, she is very admirable in how she handled congress over e-mail gate. She was a very pragmatic politician but it doesn't mean people like her.

In 2008 and 2016 she seemed entitled to win. She was very condescending to Obama in 2008 and started the culture wars against Bernie in 2016 to flip that campaign in her favour.
Her biggest sin was not focusing on the economy and calling those very mid-west voters. A basket of deplorables. Furthermore even today she doesn't really take accountability for her role in that loss.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 16307
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:48 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Very true. For all the hemhawwing, the old school Rust Belters didn’t want to vote for a woman in 2016. The Chassidic also went hard for Trump.


Perhaps it was the woman who was running that was the problem. Her predecessor had no problem winning those votes and if he could have run for a 3rd term would have won them again. If Obama could have run against Trump he would have steamrolled him.

I initially had that thought after the 2016 election but as time as gone on I realized that Hillary Clinton was a terrible candidate, or was getting terrible advice (probably both). She was qualified and probably would have governed well, she is very admirable in how she handled congress over e-mail gate. She was a very pragmatic politician but it doesn't mean people like her.

In 2008 and 2016 she seemed entitled to win. She was very condescending to Obama in 2008 and started the culture wars against Bernie in 2016 to flip that campaign in her favour.
Her biggest sin was not focusing on the economy and calling those very mid-west voters. A basket of deplorables. Furthermore even today she doesn't really take accountability for her role in that loss.



To be honest though, misinformation, stereotypes and gender roles all played an issue Trump won by less than a large football stadium in three states. Hillary didn't pay enough attention to the old school biases against women, and she also didn't recognize how succeptible the midwest was to economic manipulation stories.

Hillary never should have called out the deplorables for what they were. They were and most still are deplorable, but that is for someone else to deliver the message. Not Hillary. Trump appealed to the worst in a lot of people. The abusive Narcissist that would take on anyone that the deplorables felt had hur them. And that is why they were and still are deplorable. They look to abuse and blame others instead of look to themselves for the changes they need.
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1663
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 6:33 pm

We were told (by those on this site no less) that... a red wave was coming!...that Biden was so unpopular, that inflation was so high, that the border was in such shambles.. that the Dems would be destroyed, decimated, repudiated.

And here we are.

Trump has now lost three elections in a row for the GOP and in a past life bankrupted a casino.. yes, real 'smart'. This could go down as one of the most underperformed midterm cycles by the GOP in recent history.

Oz...Palin...Boebart (potentially) won't be gracing us with their presence. Could not think of a more dislikeable group that deserves to be shown the door. Good riddance.

The GOP will need to navigate some challenges moving forward.. McCarthy, a generally weak fellow, navigating the path forward with a reduced and bruised MAGA wing. Trump and DeSantis.. who both revel in scorched earth tactics.. confronting each other. Should be deliciously entertaining.
Last edited by skyservice_330 on Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4677
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 6:57 pm

skyservice_330 wrote:
We were told (by those on this site no less) that... a red wave was coming!...that Biden was so unpopular, that inflation was so high, that the border was in such shambles.. that the Dems would destroyed, decimated, repudiated.

And here we are.

Trump has now lost three elections in a row for the GOP and in a past life bankrupted a casino.. yes, real 'smart'. This could go down as one of the most underperformed midterm cycles by the GOP in recent history.

Oz...Palin...Boebart (potentially) won't be gracing us with their presence. Could not think of a more dislikeable group that deserves to be shown the door. Good riddance.

The GOP will need to navigate some challenges moving forward.. McCarthy, a generally weak fellow, navigating the path forward with a reduced and bruised MAGA wing. Trump and DeSantis.. who both revel in scorched earth tactics.. confronting each other. Should be deliciously entertaining.


Trump needs to go and should be laughed out of the room.

Boebart will plan to start an Only Fans account now. :rotfl: :rotfl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXWQLog4B6o

McCarthy is in for a hard time from what I have listened to. John Boehner had a hard time a decade ago and the Freedom caucus has only gotten worse.
He looks like he his going to be challenged for the speakership.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/09/us/p ... r-gop.html
 
Avatar2go
Posts: 2640
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:02 pm

To clarify the discussion on redistricting a bit, I'm not one of those who single out Republicans for using it as a political tool. Democrats in my state did the exact same thing, and altered the results in their favor.

My point was that it's a bad tool to use, because it skews the election away from what the residents may really want. For NY to vote more conservatively is not wrong, nor would it be wrong for FL to vote more liberally. Ideally those shifts would be represented accurately in electoral results.

Redistricting, as practiced in a partisan manner, doesn't necessarily provide that outcome. We need both sides to accept that their job is to influence the public and motivate them to vote. But the voting itself is off-limits.

That used to be an implicitly understood principle, and it's baked into the Constitutional provisions for involving state legislatures and providing for party observers. But we seem to be losing sight of that recently.
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1663
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:07 pm

StarAC17 wrote:

Trump needs to go and should be laughed out of the room.

Boebart will plan to start an Only Fans account now. :rotfl: :rotfl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXWQLog4B6o

McCarthy is in for a hard time from what I have listened to. John Boehner had a hard time a decade ago and the Freedom caucus has only gotten worse.
He looks like he his going to be challenged for the speakership.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/09/us/p ... r-gop.html


Totally agree. But I remain inclined to believe that his ego and hubris means he won't go away gracefully or quietly. At worst, he will burn the party to the ground trying to stay relevant... at best, he is relegated to a sideshow, grifting his way from one speech to the next, emptying the pockets of those who refuse to believe they had the wool pulled over their eyes by a snake oil salesmen.

Courtesy of the Twitter machine - Lauren Boebert's chances of holding her seat are falling faster than her husband's pants at a bowling alley full of minors :rotfl: :rotfl:
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3860
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:30 pm

seb146 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
leader1 wrote:
And Zeldin was an awful candidate. He wasn’t electable in NY and not because he’s Republican, but because he wasn’t likable. He came across as angry and he couldn’t commit to abortion rights, which scared off a lot of women. He was also too close to Trump and his congressional voting record was abysmal for NY, especially his district which has been negatively affected by the SALT deduction cap. I couldn’t in good conscience vote for him because of that and his closeness to Trump, but I didn’t vote for Hochul either.


Well, part of Dems' strategy is to make sure the craziest extreme GOP candidates win primary and let that person scare voters away. It's working to certain extent.


What are you talking about? Democrats run on things like saving Social Security and Medicare and equality for all. Republicans run on "woke liberal mobs will take your guns" and "woke liberal mobs want to change children's genders" and taking away Social Security and Medicare and voting rights. If people do not vote for MAGAs, MAGAs only have themselves to blame. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.


Abortion, threat to Democracy, SS/Medicare, etc. are definitely part of the equation. It runs parallel with the effort to get GOP to put up crazy candidates, one that go full MAGA and want to take away SS/Medicare, abortion, etc.

I'm in Maryland...they literally gave money to Dan Cox....

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-b ... ats-2022-7

Yes, the crazy GQP of Maryland (yes, despite it being mostly blue state those MAGAt QAnon nutjob still exist) ultimately are the one that picked Cox over Schulz (Hogan's hand-pick successor...and a lot more moderate), but it's just one example of many.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3674
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:48 pm

casinterest wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Very true. For all the hemhawwing, the old school Rust Belters didn’t want to vote for a woman in 2016. The Chassidic also went hard for Trump.


Perhaps it was the woman who was running that was the problem. Her predecessor had no problem winning those votes and if he could have run for a 3rd term would have won them again. If Obama could have run against Trump he would have steamrolled him.

I initially had that thought after the 2016 election but as time as gone on I realized that Hillary Clinton was a terrible candidate, or was getting terrible advice (probably both). She was qualified and probably would have governed well, she is very admirable in how she handled congress over e-mail gate. She was a very pragmatic politician but it doesn't mean people like her.

In 2008 and 2016 she seemed entitled to win. She was very condescending to Obama in 2008 and started the culture wars against Bernie in 2016 to flip that campaign in her favour.
Her biggest sin was not focusing on the economy and calling those very mid-west voters. A basket of deplorables. Furthermore even today she doesn't really take accountability for her role in that loss.



To be honest though, misinformation, stereotypes and gender roles all played an issue Trump won by less than a large football stadium in three states. Hillary didn't pay enough attention to the old school biases against women, and she also didn't recognize how succeptible the midwest was to economic manipulation stories.

Hillary never should have called out the deplorables for what they were. They were and most still are deplorable, but that is for someone else to deliver the message. Not Hillary. Trump appealed to the worst in a lot of people. The abusive Narcissist that would take on anyone that the deplorables felt had hur them. And that is why they were and still are deplorable. They look to abuse and blame others instead of look to themselves for the changes they need.

Just seems like a bit of a cop out to me to lay it all at the feet of sexism. Like I genuinely find it hard to believe that in 2016 if it were Sarah Palin at the top of the GOP ticket and Biden instead Hillary (or any other male Dem) that the MAGA types wouldn’t have gone hard over for Palin.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 16307
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:53 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:

Perhaps it was the woman who was running that was the problem. Her predecessor had no problem winning those votes and if he could have run for a 3rd term would have won them again. If Obama could have run against Trump he would have steamrolled him.

I initially had that thought after the 2016 election but as time as gone on I realized that Hillary Clinton was a terrible candidate, or was getting terrible advice (probably both). She was qualified and probably would have governed well, she is very admirable in how she handled congress over e-mail gate. She was a very pragmatic politician but it doesn't mean people like her.

In 2008 and 2016 she seemed entitled to win. She was very condescending to Obama in 2008 and started the culture wars against Bernie in 2016 to flip that campaign in her favour.
Her biggest sin was not focusing on the economy and calling those very mid-west voters. A basket of deplorables. Furthermore even today she doesn't really take accountability for her role in that loss.



To be honest though, misinformation, stereotypes and gender roles all played an issue Trump won by less than a large football stadium in three states. Hillary didn't pay enough attention to the old school biases against women, and she also didn't recognize how succeptible the midwest was to economic manipulation stories.

Hillary never should have called out the deplorables for what they were. They were and most still are deplorable, but that is for someone else to deliver the message. Not Hillary. Trump appealed to the worst in a lot of people. The abusive Narcissist that would take on anyone that the deplorables felt had hur them. And that is why they were and still are deplorable. They look to abuse and blame others instead of look to themselves for the changes they need.

Just seems like a bit of a cop out to me to lay it all at the feet of sexism. Like I genuinely find it hard to believe that in 2016 if it were Sarah Palin at the top of the GOP ticket and Biden instead Hillary (or any other male Dem) that the MAGA types wouldn’t have gone hard over for Palin.


It isn't all at sexism, but 100,000 votes worth. Easy. Just look at the Hasidics. they edited all women out of their newspapers. There are men that will never vote for a woman. I have met them in the south, Especially in ultra cult like christianity sects.

There are hardcore MAGAS that would have gone hard over for PALIN, but don't discount the subset that will not vote for any female on the top of a ticket. Notice how well the GOP has done so far trying to put a presidential woman at the top of the ticket? They have had candidates, but they have all been unsurped by men with mysoginistic tenedencies.
 
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ER757
Posts: 4672
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:58 pm

However the balance in the Senate shakes out, it appears nothing will get done by Congress the next two years. GOP is almost certain to take the House so that even if the Dems hold the Senate, anything passed there gets voted down in the House. If the GOP takes the Senate, anything passing both houses gets vetoed by Biden and there aren't enough votes to over-ride it. It's a sorry state of affairs these days that there is almost zero bipartisanship anymore. When or how this changes is beyond me.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 16307
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 8:03 pm

ER757 wrote:
However the balance in the Senate shakes out, it appears nothing will get done by Congress the next two years. GOP is almost certain to take the House so that even if the Dems hold the Senate, anything passed there gets voted down in the House. If the GOP takes the Senate, anything passing both houses gets vetoed by Biden and there aren't enough votes to over-ride it. It's a sorry state of affairs these days that there is almost zero bipartisanship anymore. When or how this changes is beyond me.



We need to get back to when the most qualified leader gets elected. Not the loudest cable loudmouth.

However that would also involve people looking to compromise and look out for everyone's best interest. Probably won't happen for awhile.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4817
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 8:28 pm

skyservice_330 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:

Trump needs to go and should be laughed out of the room.

Boebart will plan to start an Only Fans account now. :rotfl: :rotfl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXWQLog4B6o

McCarthy is in for a hard time from what I have listened to. John Boehner had a hard time a decade ago and the Freedom caucus has only gotten worse.
He looks like he his going to be challenged for the speakership.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/09/us/p ... r-gop.html


Totally agree. But I remain inclined to believe that his ego and hubris means he won't go away gracefully or quietly. At worst, he will burn the party to the ground trying to stay relevant... at best, he is relegated to a sideshow, grifting his way from one speech to the next, emptying the pockets of those who refuse to believe they had the wool pulled over their eyes by a snake oil salesmen.

Courtesy of the Twitter machine - Lauren Boebert's chances of holding her seat are falling faster than her husband's pants at a bowling alley full of minors :rotfl: :rotfl:

Boebert is still likely to pull out a victory even if it is by the skin of her artificially whitened teeth. But that is the story in and of itself in the Colorado 3rd.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4677
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:19 pm

ER757 wrote:
However the balance in the Senate shakes out, it appears nothing will get done by Congress the next two years. GOP is almost certain to take the House so that even if the Dems hold the Senate, anything passed there gets voted down in the House. If the GOP takes the Senate, anything passing both houses gets vetoed by Biden and there aren't enough votes to over-ride it. It's a sorry state of affairs these days that there is almost zero bipartisanship anymore. When or how this changes is beyond me.


This is where I don't envy Kevin McCarthy. Democrats and reasonable republicans will be able to come up with bipartisan legislation that will pass the senate.

He like Boehner a decade ago will have trouble getting anything voted one because he will have to deal with the Trump Caucus. That isn't going to be fun.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 16307
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:42 am

StarAC17 wrote:
ER757 wrote:
However the balance in the Senate shakes out, it appears nothing will get done by Congress the next two years. GOP is almost certain to take the House so that even if the Dems hold the Senate, anything passed there gets voted down in the House. If the GOP takes the Senate, anything passing both houses gets vetoed by Biden and there aren't enough votes to over-ride it. It's a sorry state of affairs these days that there is almost zero bipartisanship anymore. When or how this changes is beyond me.


This is where I don't envy Kevin McCarthy. Democrats and reasonable republicans will be able to come up with bipartisan legislation that will pass the senate.

He like Boehner a decade ago will have trouble getting anything voted one because he will have to deal with the Trump Caucus. That isn't going to be fun.
\

McCarthy now has a huge problem.
Inflation is dropping, Oil prices are staying stagnant to dropping and Russia is losing in Ukraine.

All the arguments the GOP were going to go running on are already dead in the water.
Now he has to fend off the psycho ward that wants to impeach Biden and Impeach Fauci. They want to stall on the debt cieling.


It will be a gong show going forward for the GOP house. They will have to go along to get along with the democrats, but hold off the "not so much Freedom" caucus.
 
Derico
Posts: 4575
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:56 am

Got to really rip deep into US authorities on this one. 25% of the way to the 22nd century and still takes days to count votes? They've had years to modernize in some way and then they wonder why people may be cynical. At this point some undeveloped countries count faster!
 
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NIKV69
Posts: 15471
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: 2022 US Elections

Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:02 am

ER757 wrote:
However the balance in the Senate shakes out, it appears nothing will get done by Congress the next two years. GOP is almost certain to take the House so that even if the Dems hold the Senate, anything passed there gets voted down in the House. If the GOP takes the Senate, anything passing both houses gets vetoed by Biden and there aren't enough votes to over-ride it. It's a sorry state of affairs these days that there is almost zero bipartisanship anymore. When or how this changes is beyond me.


Doesn't matter what happens in the Senate, Biden has lost Sinema and Manchin is livid at him so unless they float a bill that is moderate it's a no go. To quote Manchin "this country needs a moderation" instead the crazies in far left are running the show. Let us start with a common sense immigration plan instead of just letting anyone walk in and go from there.
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