2022 US Elections

casinterest · Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:04 am

NIKV69 wrote:
ER757 wrote:
However the balance in the Senate shakes out, it appears nothing will get done by Congress the next two years. GOP is almost certain to take the House so that even if the Dems hold the Senate, anything passed there gets voted down in the House. If the GOP takes the Senate, anything passing both houses gets vetoed by Biden and there aren't enough votes to over-ride it. It's a sorry state of affairs these days that there is almost zero bipartisanship anymore. When or how this changes is beyond me.

Doesn't matter what happens in the Senate, Biden has lost Sinema and Manchin is livid at him so unless they float a bill that is moderate it's a no go. To quote Manchin "this country needs a moderation" instead the crazies in far left are running the show. Let us start with a common sense immigration plan instead of just letting anyone walk in and go from there.

I think Sinema now sees the writing on the wall. I expect her to move strongly center left. Manchin.....Well Manchin has an issue. He comes from a state so dirt poor they rely on federal handouts, but they all want to pretend to be Republican. So he blusters, but delivers the social funds.

cpd · Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:49 am

Trumpty Dumpty article by NY Post:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... st-attack/

Ouch, does this mean Trump's time is over given the Murdoch media is turning against him. You can see the front page article image there without login.

casinterest · Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:20 am

cpd wrote:
Trumpty Dumpty article by NY Post:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... st-attack/

Ouch, does this mean Trump's time is over given the Murdoch media is turning against him. You can see the front page article image there without login.

Have you seen his massive Truth Social , "I built Desantis", melt down?

You shoudl check it out below.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat ... 8702588928

Basically Trump knows what is happening and is trying to float his own boat .

phluser · Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:22 am

StarAC17 wrote:
phluser wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:

Don't run in Texas saying that you are going to regulate guns.

I hope that he doesn't run again in 2024, as a TX Senate seat held by Ted Cruz is at play again. The Democrat Party should recruit Henry Cuellar for it, and tell Beto to go away.

Here is what I'd like to see from the Democrats:

Amy Klobuchar should replace Chuck Schumer as Majority/Minority Senate Leader, depending if they are the majority or minority party.
Democrat senators like Bob Menendez, Dianne Feinstein should be encouraged to resign or retire early next year.
Kamala Harris should be offered a position in the corporate world, maybe a Diversity VP at some tech company, to encourage her not to run or be involved in the Party in the 2024 election.
Pete Buttigieg could run for Senate in Indiana. He has a knack of campaigning and if he loses, could also leave for the private sector.

In 2024, Warren and Klobuchar, will have to decide whether to run for President again or this time, re-election of their Senate again. I'm hoping in MA, there is a primary challenger to Warren's seat so that she doesn't have it easy. Of the Democrat Senators, she is likely the most woke of them all.

- Texas democrats please put somebody up who can beat Ted Cruz in 2024.
- Agree on the elderly senators and I would like to see Nancy Pelosi retire in 2024.
- Agree. Keep Kamala out of politics as she is not liked by many people. I am convinced Biden had a gun to his head to put her on that ticket. I would have wanted Biden/Bernie 2020.
- I would rather have Pete in the senate and perhaps the minority/majority leader position. I don't see him being able to get enough support to win and this is not because he is gay. Same with Klobuchar and Warren.

Biden might be the best shot in 2024 if he can run.

Back in 2020, Klobuchar went from obscurity to a rising star for a few weeks. I thought she had potential. Not an elitist and had grit, and wasn’t so far to the Left as Bernie Sanders, or woke like Warren, Cory Booker or Kamala Harris.

But the Black voters, BLM, shot her down.

You just have to see Sonny Hostin, from The View, grill her which was way over the top. The local BLM of Minnesota also protested her. Blacks didn’t trust her and were upset over a case of a kid that was imprisoned. The kid has been released since, so it is non-issue now, but she likely won’t run again in 2024, as she has to run for her Senate seat re-election.

For some other candidates , it’s completely different treatment. With Gavin Newsom, many women on the Left get goosebumps when they see him in person. He will win the black women vote, a very influential vote in the Dem primaries. These women will vote for him over Kamala Harris.

I’d be concerned if he has substance though, and if he is too far Left just by being a California politician to win moderates and independents.

Maybe there are other Democrats. Josh Shapiro, who just won the PA governor race, would seem to be an excellent Presidential candidate, but we will have to wait.

Aaron747 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:26 am

Looks like Trump couldn’t wait for his announcement to start unloading on DeSantis. Chief Child of the nation

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/ ... qghoiAagwA

bennett123 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:34 am

Perhaps if Manchin thinks he can do better....

zakuivcustom · Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:39 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Looks like Trump couldn’t wait for his announcement to start unloading on DeSantis. Chief Child of the nation

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/ ... qghoiAagwA

And DeSantis is playing smart by basically ignoring the man child while basically implementing the exact same policy as TFG.

That whole "feud" is so one-sided anyway.

BN747 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:53 am

casinterest wrote:
ER757 wrote:
However the balance in the Senate shakes out, it appears nothing will get done by Congress the next two years. GOP is almost certain to take the House so that even if the Dems hold the Senate, anything passed there gets voted down in the House. If the GOP takes the Senate, anything passing both houses gets vetoed by Biden and there aren't enough votes to over-ride it. It's a sorry state of affairs these days that there is almost zero bipartisanship anymore. When or how this changes is beyond me.

We need to get back to when the most qualified leader gets elected. Not the loudest cable loudmouth.

However that would also involve people looking to compromise and look out for everyone's best interest. Probably won't happen for awhile.

Those days are gone for good.

This new era political information dissemination from ever hue is now the norm...the false, the mish mash mix and the factual truth are now the equation for next several generations
only when the push for civics becomes central to grade school education can the appreciation of the governing process take hold like it once was.

That Gen Z/Millennial kid who just got elected is probably the most tech-savvy human in Congress, he or one his pals will find a way to exploit social media platforms to their advantage in a way the others can only dream of. The Youth vote did turn out and they broke blue in huge numbers, they'll get bigger ..esp. if school attacks pick up and accelerate in the next two years, and they will.
But they are building a serious voting block and nothing on the GOP dinner table appeals to them. Here comes the future....

BN747

Avatar2go · Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:12 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Let us start with a common sense immigration plan instead of just letting anyone walk in and go from there.

The US immigration policy is not to just let anyone walk in. Again this is a conservative media trope & standard, part of the overall bogeyman strategy that failed to create the Red Wave. But didn't work because most people recognize it as being completely untrue.

cpd · Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:48 am

casinterest wrote:
cpd wrote:
Trumpty Dumpty article by NY Post:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... st-attack/

Ouch, does this mean Trump's time is over given the Murdoch media is turning against him. You can see the front page article image there without login.

Have you seen his massive Truth Social , "I built Desantis", melt down?

You shoudl check it out below.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat ... 8702588928

Basically Trump knows what is happening and is trying to float his own boat .

I don’t listen to spoiled brats who whine and whinge all the time.

marcelh · Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:58 am

Avatar2go wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Let us start with a common sense immigration plan instead of just letting anyone walk in and go from there.

The US immigration policy is not to just let anyone walk in. Again this is a conservative media trope & standard, part of the overall bogeyman strategy that failed to create the Red Wave. But didn't work because most people recognize it as being completely untrue.

“A common sense immigration plan” as in: child separation and zero tolerance?

marcelh · Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:59 am

cpd wrote:
casinterest wrote:
cpd wrote:
Trumpty Dumpty article by NY Post:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... st-attack/

Ouch, does this mean Trump's time is over given the Murdoch media is turning against him. You can see the front page article image there without login.

Have you seen his massive Truth Social , "I built Desantis", melt down?

You shoudl check it out below.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat ... 8702588928

Basically Trump knows what is happening and is trying to float his own boat .

I don’t listen to spoiled brats who whine and whinge all the time.

Will it be better with a DeSantis in the GOP drivers seat?

Avatar2go · Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:31 am

Katty Kay from the BBC did an interview with Kari Lake where she was asked about stolen election claims. Quite revealing, if not stunning. She clings to the "evidence exists but was never presented" conspiracy theory.

A person who believes these things, absolutely could not be placed in a position of political authority. They would never leave office willingly. Just like Trump.

If she loses, she won't take it very well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63588941

Aaron747 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:08 am

casinterest wrote:
cpd wrote:
Trumpty Dumpty article by NY Post:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... st-attack/

Ouch, does this mean Trump's time is over given the Murdoch media is turning against him. You can see the front page article image there without login.

Have you seen his massive Truth Social , "I built Desantis", melt down?

You shoudl check it out below.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat ... 8702588928

Basically Trump knows what is happening and is trying to float his own boat .

Literally the worst case of sour grapes ever. Now claiming Fetterman ‘stole’ PA because reasons.

https://twitter.com/ronfilipkowski/stat ... qghoiAagwA

Avatar2go · Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:44 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
cpd wrote:
Trumpty Dumpty article by NY Post:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... st-attack/

Ouch, does this mean Trump's time is over given the Murdoch media is turning against him. You can see the front page article image there without login.

Have you seen his massive Truth Social , "I built Desantis", melt down?

You shoudl check it out below.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat ... 8702588928

Basically Trump knows what is happening and is trying to float his own boat .

Literally the worst case of sour grapes ever. Now claiming Fetterman ‘stole’ PA because reasons.

https://twitter.com/ronfilipkowski/stat ... qghoiAagwA

This was inevitable. Trump gonna Trump. But it made me visit his Truth Social site to verify the source, and boy oh boy, is it ever a shrine for his followers to worship at his feet. If he is immersed in that 24/7, no wonder he believes he is infallible.

In any other circumstances, his account would seem like a parody. But it's not, it's who he really is, on full display. It's also obvious why he believes he can regain the presidency in 2024. Delusional.

Avatar2go · Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:58 pm

marcelh wrote:
cpd wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Have you seen his massive Truth Social , "I built Desantis", melt down?

You shoudl check it out below.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat ... 8702588928

Basically Trump knows what is happening and is trying to float his own boat .

I don’t listen to spoiled brats who whine and whinge all the time.

Will it be better with a DeSantis in the GOP drivers seat?

Here is why DeSantis would not repeat his success in Florida, at the national level.

Liberals and independents would view this as another Trumpian attempt at demagoguery and a cult of personality. God wants you to support his fighter, who is selflessly running for office, for your benefit. Just don't take your hand off your pocketbook

https://twitter.com/i/status/1588539069243473924

Plus he stole the entire schtick from Paul Harvey, who was trying to honor farmers. Not politicians.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3 ... a-fighter/

sierrakilo44 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:54 pm

How would Deaantis appeal to the swing states? The rust belt went further Democrat, MI and PA state legislatures now controlled by Democrats. AZ now trending to leaning Dem.

Democrats had the best state performance at the midterms since 1934, and I’d argue that’s with the Republicans following DeSantis’s “anti woke” messaging.

casinterest · Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:30 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
cpd wrote:
Trumpty Dumpty article by NY Post:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... st-attack/

Ouch, does this mean Trump's time is over given the Murdoch media is turning against him. You can see the front page article image there without login.

Have you seen his massive Truth Social , "I built Desantis", melt down?

You shoudl check it out below.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat ... 8702588928

Basically Trump knows what is happening and is trying to float his own boat .

Literally the worst case of sour grapes ever. Now claiming Fetterman ‘stole’ PA because reasons.

https://twitter.com/ronfilipkowski/stat ... qghoiAagwA

The sad thing is that he has people that still support his blatent abuses and nacissism. Will be interersting to see how Georgia runoff goes, wonder if Trump will stay out of it or not.

BN747 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:53 pm

casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Have you seen his massive Truth Social , "I built Desantis", melt down?

You shoudl check it out below.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat ... 8702588928

Basically Trump knows what is happening and is trying to float his own boat .

Literally the worst case of sour grapes ever. Now claiming Fetterman ‘stole’ PA because reasons.

https://twitter.com/ronfilipkowski/stat ... qghoiAagwA

The sad thing is that he has people that still support his blatent abuses and nacissism. Will be interersting to see how Georgia runoff goes, wonder if Trump will stay out of it or not.

It won't matter but it will certainly hurt Walker further if he does.

White voters had a reason to 'hold their noses' and vote for him because they were there primarily for Kemp and to stop Abrams.

Now, it's Walker all alone...

Trump showing up simply won't cut it, not in 2020, not 2022 and not on Dec.6. But give Walker more air and face time, let stupid just roll off his tongue, every word he utters paints
the portrait a man who actually thinks like a child, a true big oaf...who has no interest, no brain for machinations of the Senate, he makes Tuberville look like Einstein.

Abrams otoh, will step up and make sure voters get to the polls, Warnock's comments yesterday were on point as he claimed, "I got here by run off, we do run offs...let's go!"

He'll take Georgia, Kelly's lead is increasing over Masters and Cortez-Masto has closed in on a 50K vote deficit and whittled it down to 9K and nearly 100K outstanding in Reno area & Clark/Vegas - both Dem strong.

BN747

casinterest · Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:05 pm

BN747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Literally the worst case of sour grapes ever. Now claiming Fetterman ‘stole’ PA because reasons.

https://twitter.com/ronfilipkowski/stat ... qghoiAagwA

The sad thing is that he has people that still support his blatent abuses and nacissism. Will be interersting to see how Georgia runoff goes, wonder if Trump will stay out of it or not.

It won't matter but it will certainly hurt Walker further if he does.

White voters had a reason to 'hold their noses' and vote for him because they were there primarily for Kemp and to stop Abrams.

Now, it's Walker all alone...

Trump showing up simply won't cut it, not in 2020, not 2022 and not on Dec.6. But give Walker more air and face time, let stupid just roll off his tongue, every word he utters paints
the portrait a man who actually thinks like a child, a true big oaf...who has no interest, no brain for machinations of the Senate, he makes Tuberville look like Einstein.

Abrams otoh, will step up and make sure voters get to the polls, Warnock's comments yesterday were on point as he claimed, "I got here by run off, we do run offs...let's go!"

He'll take Georgia, Kelly's lead is increasing over Masters and Cortez-Masto has closed in on a 50K vote deficit and whittled it down to 9K and nearly 100K outstanding in Reno area & Clark/Vegas - both Dem strong.

BN747

Yeah, I think the GOP is going to try to throw everythng they have at Georgia, but they picked a horrible candidate with Trump ties. I wonder how many votes he will get on his own, without other races supporting him.

BN747 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:13 pm

casinterest wrote:
BN747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

The sad thing is that he has people that still support his blatent abuses and nacissism. Will be interersting to see how Georgia runoff goes, wonder if Trump will stay out of it or not.

It won't matter but it will certainly hurt Walker further if he does.

White voters had a reason to 'hold their noses' and vote for him because they were there primarily for Kemp and to stop Abrams.

Now, it's Walker all alone...

Trump showing up simply won't cut it, not in 2020, not 2022 and not on Dec.6. But give Walker more air and face time, let stupid just roll off his tongue, every word he utters paints
the portrait a man who actually thinks like a child, a true big oaf...who has no interest, no brain for machinations of the Senate, he makes Tuberville look like Einstein.

Abrams otoh, will step up and make sure voters get to the polls, Warnock's comments yesterday were on point as he claimed, "I got here by run off, we do run offs...let's go!"

He'll take Georgia, Kelly's lead is increasing over Masters and Cortez-Masto has closed in on a 50K vote deficit and whittled it down to 9K and nearly 100K outstanding in Reno area & Clark/Vegas - both Dem strong.

BN747

Yeah, I think the GOP is going to try to throw everythng they have at Georgia, but they picked a horrible candidate with Trump ties. I wonder how many votes he will get on his own, without other races supporting him.

Now Factor in a Kelly, Cortez-Masto win... resulting in Dem Senate control, now Warnock v Walker just kills any desire for Republicans to even bother at all...it really becomes 'the lost cause'.

BN747

seb146 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:31 pm

leader1 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:

Well, part of Dems' strategy is to make sure the craziest extreme GOP candidates win primary and let that person scare voters away. It's working to certain extent.

What are you talking about? Democrats run on things like saving Social Security and Medicare and equality for all. Republicans run on "woke liberal mobs will take your guns" and "woke liberal mobs want to change children's genders" and taking away Social Security and Medicare and voting rights. If people do not vote for MAGAs, MAGAs only have themselves to blame. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Dems funded MAGAts in several states to ensure they won GOP primaries. Absolutely brilliant strategy it turned out to be. Heck, if I were them, I absolutely would have done the same thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... primaries/

Behind a paywall but, if it is anything like what happened here in Oregon, Democrats did not fund MAGA candidates. Democrats funded Democrats who simply used actual quotes and facts from MAGA candidates to show just how crazy they are. In our governor's race, Democrat Tina Kotek ran ads showing her opponent, Christine Drazen, was aligned with violent extremists, election deniers, and anti-abortion. Same with the race between Democrat Val Hoyle and MAGA Republican Alek Skarlatos.

NIKV69 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:45 pm

BN747 wrote:

Now Factor in a Kelly, Cortez-Masto win... resulting in Dem Senate control, now Warnock v Walker just kills any desire for Republicans to even bother at all...it really becomes 'the lost cause'.

BN747

Walker is probably going to lose a close runoff but it's moot. With Sinema and Manchin at odds with Biden they won't vote for anything unless it's a moderate bill. Plus the 2024 hysteria will start up late next year so nothing will get done in congress. Especially if the GOP hold the house.

casinterest · Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:51 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Now Factor in a Kelly, Cortez-Masto win... resulting in Dem Senate control, now Warnock v Walker just kills any desire for Republicans to even bother at all...it really becomes 'the lost cause'.

BN747

Walker is probably going to lose a close runoff but it's moot. With Sinema and Manchin at odds with Biden they won't vote for anything unless it's a moderate bill. Plus the 2024 hysteria will start up late next year so nothing will get done in congress. Especially if the GOP hold the house.

Really?

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/bi ... en-sinema/

Take a look at how often Sinema and Manchin vote with Biden.

leader1 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:11 pm

seb146 wrote:
leader1 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

What are you talking about? Democrats run on things like saving Social Security and Medicare and equality for all. Republicans run on "woke liberal mobs will take your guns" and "woke liberal mobs want to change children's genders" and taking away Social Security and Medicare and voting rights. If people do not vote for MAGAs, MAGAs only have themselves to blame. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Dems funded MAGAts in several states to ensure they won GOP primaries. Absolutely brilliant strategy it turned out to be. Heck, if I were them, I absolutely would have done the same thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... primaries/

Behind a paywall but, if it is anything like what happened here in Oregon, Democrats did not fund MAGA candidates. Democrats funded Democrats who simply used actual quotes and facts from MAGA candidates to show just how crazy they are. In our governor's race, Democrat Tina Kotek ran ads showing her opponent, Christine Drazen, was aligned with violent extremists, election deniers, and anti-abortion. Same with the race between Democrat Val Hoyle and MAGA Republican Alek Skarlatos.

What happened in OR with the race? Why did Johnson decide to run? This could have been a blowout for Kotek if Johnson didn't run.

casinterest · Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:21 pm

So apparently Maricopa County in Arizona has not even started counting the 290,000 early ballots

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3 ... next-week/

“If you drop off an early ballot, it means it has to come in on Wednesday and start the process of being signature verified,” Gates told CNN. “We have experts here who go through, compare the signature on the outside of the ballot envelope with the signature that we have in our voter registration file, so that takes a while, cause we gotta get that right.”

Mail-in ballots that were handed in are subject to that rigorous process before they are sent off to be tabulated. The 290,000 ballots that were dropped off on Election Day is a massive jump from previous cycles. In 2020, 170,000 ballots were dropped off on Election Day.

Given the GOP's adversity to these ballots, I would imagine it rather cements Kelly's win, but with that many ballots outstanding no call can be made till next week officially.

leader1 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:31 pm

marcelh wrote:
cpd wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Have you seen his massive Truth Social , "I built Desantis", melt down?

You shoudl check it out below.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat ... 8702588928

Basically Trump knows what is happening and is trying to float his own boat .

I don’t listen to spoiled brats who whine and whinge all the time.

Will it be better with a DeSantis in the GOP drivers seat?

Yes. Not that I like DeSantis, but he actually governed FL his first two years as a moderate. It was only during the pandemic that he changed his tune. My guess because he smelled blood with Trump, who handled everything poorly, and used it to his advantage to raise his national profile. I don't think DeSantis would be as incompetent as Trump, and he would have to moderate his message if he wants to get through to more states. He's capable of doing it; Trump was not.

leader1 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:35 pm

casinterest wrote:
So apparently Maricopa County in Arizona has not even started counting the 290,000 early ballots

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3 ... next-week/

“If you drop off an early ballot, it means it has to come in on Wednesday and start the process of being signature verified,” Gates told CNN. “We have experts here who go through, compare the signature on the outside of the ballot envelope with the signature that we have in our voter registration file, so that takes a while, cause we gotta get that right.”

Mail-in ballots that were handed in are subject to that rigorous process before they are sent off to be tabulated. The 290,000 ballots that were dropped off on Election Day is a massive jump from previous cycles. In 2020, 170,000 ballots were dropped off on Election Day.

Given the GOP's adversity to these ballots, I would imagine it rather cements Kelly's win, but with that many ballots outstanding no call can be made till next week officially.

He's seen enough!

https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1 ... uxkIzrCBFg

NIKV69 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:04 pm

casinterest wrote:

Take a look at how often Sinema and Manchin vote with Biden.

Past history, when Biden tries his next substantial bill we shall see.

casinterest wrote:

Given the GOP's adversity to these ballots, I would imagine it rather cements Kelly's win, but with that many ballots outstanding no call can be made till next week officially.

Kelly's race should have been called a long time ago for him. IMO they are refusing to call it so Hobbs Lake doesn't stand along as the only un called race.

stratosphere · Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:04 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
stratosphere wrote:

If Trump stays out of the way and DeSantis does become the nominee there is no one the Democrats can put up that will beat him.

Don't think this is true at all. DeSantis did well in Florida where Trump also did well. The reason they clash is that they are exactly alike. Also why they would split the same wing of the Republican party that took a shellacking yesterday.

DeSantis proved his similarity when he brought immigrants from Texas to Florida, so that he could then ship them to asylum cities. That was a pure Trump move, and it wasn't lost on the moderates and independents who are tired of juvenile behavior, and don't support Trump for that reason.

DeSantis would not win today, and unless he moderated considerably, he could not win in 2024.

Truly makes me wonder if the MAGA Republicans will ever get the message. Trump snuck up on people because he somewhat moderated his behavior in the 2016 campaign. But then became, and remains, a train wreck. DeSantis has climbed aboard that train, so there is no not recognizing him as the same type of character. No one wants that now, outside of the MAGA base. And frankly, the moderate Republicans could put up a much better candidate, with much broader appeal.

This all comes down to hopefully the end of extremism in US politics. In the past, parties were forced to choose moderates to appeal to the other party, and to independents, which was needed to win. Trump was the exception that proved the rule. No one wants to go back to that now.

Biden ran as a moderate and let the progressive wing of the party take him over. Now his popularity is worse than even Trump was at this point in his presidency. You have issues on your side of the fence too. Most of America do not the extreme fringes on either side. I hate the squad as much as you probably hate Marjorie Taylor Green. Until we start meeting more in the middle nothing will change.

M564038 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:07 pm

There is nothing progressive about Biden. He is a rather conservative, albeit social liberal center-right politician by any measure outside of the GOP.

stratosphere wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
stratosphere wrote:

If Trump stays out of the way and DeSantis does become the nominee there is no one the Democrats can put up that will beat him.

Don't think this is true at all. DeSantis did well in Florida where Trump also did well. The reason they clash is that they are exactly alike. Also why they would split the same wing of the Republican party that took a shellacking yesterday.

DeSantis proved his similarity when he brought immigrants from Texas to Florida, so that he could then ship them to asylum cities. That was a pure Trump move, and it wasn't lost on the moderates and independents who are tired of juvenile behavior, and don't support Trump for that reason.

DeSantis would not win today, and unless he moderated considerably, he could not win in 2024.

Truly makes me wonder if the MAGA Republicans will ever get the message. Trump snuck up on people because he somewhat moderated his behavior in the 2016 campaign. But then became, and remains, a train wreck. DeSantis has climbed aboard that train, so there is no not recognizing him as the same type of character. No one wants that now, outside of the MAGA base. And frankly, the moderate Republicans could put up a much better candidate, with much broader appeal.

This all comes down to hopefully the end of extremism in US politics. In the past, parties were forced to choose moderates to appeal to the other party, and to independents, which was needed to win. Trump was the exception that proved the rule. No one wants to go back to that now.

Biden ran as a moderate and let the progressive wing of the party take him over. Now his popularity is worse than even Trump was at this point in his presidency. You have issues on your side of the fence too. Most of America do not the extreme fringes on either side. I hate the squad as much as you probably hate Marjorie Taylor Green. Until we start meeting more in the middle nothing will change.

casinterest · Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:55 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Take a look at how often Sinema and Manchin vote with Biden.

Past history, when Biden tries his next substantial bill we shall see.

casinterest wrote:

Given the GOP's adversity to these ballots, I would imagine it rather cements Kelly's win, but with that many ballots outstanding no call can be made till next week officially.

Kelly's race should have been called a long time ago for him. IMO they are refusing to call it so Hobbs Lake doesn't stand along as the only un called race.

There are 690,000 votes apparently outstanding. They mathematically can't call either race until enough votes are counted.
Hobbs lake is extremely close. That one will be the last to be announced no matter what. "Stand Alone" is only in the minds of people that don't know math.

Tugger · Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:16 pm

stratosphere wrote:
[...]n. Until we start meeting more in the middle nothing will change.

Where is the middle though, for you?

I have always stated things like "the magic is in the middle" and "the majority are in similar in the middle". Unfortunately I have not seen many willing to call out their own and fight their party's apparently intent to NOT work to the middle.

My "middle" tends to be be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Tax as needed to fund what we have to fund (whether or not you like it it needs to be paid for), taxes on EVERYONE even the lowest earners (say 5%), increase immigration and provide processes for more people to enter and become tax paying citizens, do not support legislation that creates an obligation without a funding mechanism identified and linked that will work (prayed for revenue from tax increases or cuts don't cut it, a new thing for SS to fund? Not without a new source to fund it), good access to basic healthcare but not unlimited, access to coverage markets for more of that (healthy people work and contribute to the economy, no unlimited benefits (welfare in particular).

Tugg

BN747 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:20 pm

stratosphere wrote:
... I hate the squad as much as you probably hate Marjorie Taylor Green. Until we start meeting more in the middle nothing will change.

The problem with that prospective solution is the false assumption that the equal parts of the equation...when in truth, they are not equal in approach to 'thought'.

Thoughts, the product of consumed logic, facts, empirical evidence and other externalities are revealed in conversational exchange.

If basic facts cannot be agreed upon as a foundation..where do you start?

Hypothethical -> Platform <b>The Big Lie</b>

Squad: He lied, he cannot be trusted.
MTG: Well I believe him and that's all that matters.

Squad: Okay, lets do an amateur forensic review of ballot counts.
MTG: How do we do that?

Squad: We will both look at every election in the archives of 10 counties of each of our choices - for the past 20 elections.
MTG: What will that do?

Squad: It will reveal the voting trends, growth patterns of the counties we select ..and if any take quantum leaps from traditional trends, it should be palpable.
MTG: That's too much ork! ... storms out of the room...

Now of course that's in jest, but how far from reality as we know it ..is that skit from it?
If there is no working foundation to begin with.. where is this middle ground if any side insist on being unreasonable and irrational.

BN747

Avatar2go · Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:40 pm

Kari Lake has said in an interview that it's mathematically impossible for her to lose, so if she does, it will be evidence of fraud. But of course that is not true, the race is close enough that it could go either way.

Similarly Lindsey Graham has claimed that in Nevada, Laxualt cannot mathematically lose, but that too is false, enough votes are outstanding that the results could go either way.

At least these people are consistent in poor math skills and jumping to unwarranted conclusions.

Tugger · Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:53 pm

One interesting winner in the election was a woman's right to privacy in her medical choices including access to abortion services.

A decent article summing the recent election victories:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... a-michigan

Tugg

casinterest · Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:00 pm

Tugger wrote:
One interesting winner in the election was a woman's right to privacy in her medical choices including access to abortion services.

A decent article summing the recent election victories:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... a-michigan

Tugg

The Kentucky AG doesn't care what the people voted for.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... -decision/

On Wednesday, Cameron released a statement responding to the results of the ballot.

“While this result is disappointing, it does not change our belief that there is no right to abortion hidden in the Kentucky Constitution and that the regulation of abortion policy is a matter that belong to our elected representatives in the General Assembly,” said Cameron.

The people of Kentucky voted against a Constitutional Amendement banning abortions, but the AG wants to still ban it.

casinterest · Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:01 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Kari Lake has said in an interview that it's mathematically impossible for her to lose, so if she does, it will be evidence of fraud. But of course that is not true, the race is close enough that it could go either way.

Similarly Lindsey Graham has claimed that in Nevada, Laxualt cannot mathematically lose, but that too is false, enough votes are outstanding that the results could go either way.

At least these people are consistent in poor math skills and jumping to unwarranted conclusions.

This is why the GOP can't effectively lead. They deal in lies, and false hopes. Not in anything based on data.

petertenthije · Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:09 pm

Tugger wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
[...]n. Until we start meeting more in the middle nothing will change.

Where is the middle though, for you?

Very simple.

You start three steps away.
Then democrats step one to the left.
Republicans step 10 to the right.
Republicans propose to meet in the middle.
Republicans are surprised democrats ain’t interested.

ER757 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:09 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
cpd wrote:
Trumpty Dumpty article by NY Post:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... st-attack/

Ouch, does this mean Trump's time is over given the Murdoch media is turning against him. You can see the front page article image there without login.

Have you seen his massive Truth Social , "I built Desantis", melt down?

You shoudl check it out below.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat ... 8702588928

Basically Trump knows what is happening and is trying to float his own boat .

Literally the worst case of sour grapes ever. Now claiming Fetterman ‘stole’ PA because reasons.

https://twitter.com/ronfilipkowski/stat ... qghoiAagwA

Hysterical. He calls out Fetterman for "not being able to string two sentences together." Pot, kettle....black.

BN747 · Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:07 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Tugger wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
[...]n. Until we start meeting more in the middle nothing will change.

Where is the middle though, for you?

Very simple.

You start three steps away.
Then democrats step one to the left.
Republicans step 10 to the right.
Republicans propose to meet in the middle.
Republicans are surprised democrats ain’t interested.

aka...lesson learned (The Squad 100%, the rest....maybe).

BN747

DarkSnowyNight · Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:02 pm

stratosphere wrote:
Biden ran as a moderate and let the progressive wing of the party take him over. Now his popularity is worse than even Trump was at this point in his presidency. You have issues on your side of the fence too. Most of America do not the extreme fringes on either side.

Biden has done nothing but disappoint "the left" and has spent far too much time avoiding conflict with the fringy, right wing elements —which these days are most of the GOP— he should be ignoring outright. Americans do not need a president who entertains opinions of that riff-raff.

This is where the overwhelming portion of his disapproval grows out of. If he were to run again today, he would have a hell of a fight at the primary level, but handily beat anything the GOP could loft in a general.

stratosphere wrote:
I hate the squad as much as you probably hate Marjorie Taylor Green. Until we start meeting more in the middle nothing will change.

Those are not equal values, so there is not a "middle" to meet. If I like cats and you like clubbing baby seals, there is no need to try and compromise where making by-laws for the SPCA are concerned. Nazi Sympathizers like Margy Green and their ilk do not need a voice at all.

Tugger wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
[...]n. Until we start meeting more in the middle nothing will change.

Where is the middle though, for you?

I have always stated things like "the magic is in the middle" and "the majority are in similar in the middle". Unfortunately I have not seen many willing to call out their own and fight their party's apparently intent to NOT work to the middle.
...
Tugg

And that highlights the problem with today's GOP. They simply have no clue what an Overton Window is and how far out of touch with Americans the really are.

FGITD · Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:48 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Those are not equal values, so there is not a "middle" to meet. If I like cats and you like clubbing baby seals, there is no need to try and compromise where making by-laws for the SPCA are concerned. Nazi Sympathizers like Margy Green and their ilk do not need a voice at all.

Very well put. It’s such a ridiculous comparison. The “squad” wants things like cheaper healthcare, housing, etc. The right wing equivalent is busy talking about Jewish space lasers, the need to reduce the separation of church and state, and how they need guns….

Aaron747 · Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:03 am

stratosphere wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
stratosphere wrote:

If Trump stays out of the way and DeSantis does become the nominee there is no one the Democrats can put up that will beat him.

Don't think this is true at all. DeSantis did well in Florida where Trump also did well. The reason they clash is that they are exactly alike. Also why they would split the same wing of the Republican party that took a shellacking yesterday.

DeSantis proved his similarity when he brought immigrants from Texas to Florida, so that he could then ship them to asylum cities. That was a pure Trump move, and it wasn't lost on the moderates and independents who are tired of juvenile behavior, and don't support Trump for that reason.

DeSantis would not win today, and unless he moderated considerably, he could not win in 2024.

Truly makes me wonder if the MAGA Republicans will ever get the message. Trump snuck up on people because he somewhat moderated his behavior in the 2016 campaign. But then became, and remains, a train wreck. DeSantis has climbed aboard that train, so there is no not recognizing him as the same type of character. No one wants that now, outside of the MAGA base. And frankly, the moderate Republicans could put up a much better candidate, with much broader appeal.

This all comes down to hopefully the end of extremism in US politics. In the past, parties were forced to choose moderates to appeal to the other party, and to independents, which was needed to win. Trump was the exception that proved the rule. No one wants to go back to that now.

Biden ran as a moderate and let the progressive wing of the party take him over. Now his popularity is worse than even Trump was at this point in his presidency. You have issues on your side of the fence too. Most of America do not the extreme fringes on either side. I hate the squad as much as you probably hate Marjorie Taylor Green. Until we start meeting more in the middle nothing will change.

False equivalency is really tiring. The country needs top to bottom critical thinking training and revamp.

I was watching an American couple argue in a cafe yesterday and it was the same thing. She: we don't have time to keep deciding, it always takes you 5 min to research anything on your phone. He (getting upset): oh we don't have time? I seem to remember you spilling coffee on yourself and changing clothes last week...what were we, 40 min late to the airport??' Me: umm wut?? Habits ≠ accidents

ACDC8 · Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:04 am

I'll say one thing, watching the pushback towards Trump by his so many of his allies over the last few years is just so satisfying.

BN747 · Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:08 am

The Headwinds coming Walker's way...
GA DA - Fani Wilis / The Perfect Call
NY DA - Letitia James / Trump Org implosion
US AG - uh on, where are the handcuffs...

..all of those will be 3-4 weeks of pure nightmare for Walker to address and on the mind of Georgia voters when thinking of pulling the lever for good ol' loyal Herschel...

BN747

NIKV69 · Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:04 am

Nevada just gave Sisolak the boot! He was so Newsom lite. Great night for Nevada.

BN747 · Sat Nov 12, 2022 3:28 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Nevada just gave Sisolak the boot! He was so Newsom lite. Great night for Nevada.

Nevada is about to get better within an hour and the Washoe County will dump 20K votes, the batch last night shrunk Catherine Cortez Masto's deficit down to 1951.
The coming batch will send her back to the Senate if her 2-to-1 ratio hoids, delivering the Senate back to Dem control.

We may know tonight if Georgia is of just the gravy on a Dem surprising show in a mid term, they were not suppose to win.
Walker will the sideshow to watch as he stands alone trying sell his unique brand low-mentality BS....

BN747

BN747 · Sat Nov 12, 2022 3:37 am

Cortez Masto just took the Laxalt's lead down 821 as 10K (of the expected 20K) landed boosting Cortez Masto. Washoe County could still drop the other 10K of ballots
which would put her over Laxalt for good.

Then the remaining 24K of Clark Country arriving tomorrow.

BN747

Avatar2go · Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:00 am

Also Kelly in Arizona projected to win the Senate seat, and Finchem projected to lose the SoS seat, as an election denier.

In Nevada, Marchant also projected to lose the SoS seat, as an election denier. And Cortez-Masto is likely to take the Senate seat, with the districts remaining to count.

That will mean the Democrats retain control of the Senate, and probably add a seat with Warnock in Georgia.

Another very good night for Democrats. I suspect Hobbs will follow as Arizona governor, defeating Lake who is also an election denier.

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