Perhaps someone can confirm the situation for me.

If I fly to the US, would I be able to buy a gun in Arizona or Nevada.

I am not a US citizen and would be in the US as a tourist.

No, not a citizen or legal resident alien. There are some exceptions, but you unlikely to be one.

https://www.shouselaw.com/az/defense/la ... ow-to-buy/

Tourists are welcome to rent a gun at a gun range.

If you want to consort with criminals selling illegal guns, go ahead, but don’t be surprised by the outcomes.

phatfarmlines wrote:

Tourists are welcome to rent a gun at a gun range.

I keep hearing about the danger from Bears and Mountain Lions in these areas.

What other options are available?.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

If you want to consort with criminals selling illegal guns, go ahead, but don’t be surprised by the outcomes.

Those aren't criminals, they're good ole boys.

bennett123 wrote:

phatfarmlines wrote:

Tourists are welcome to rent a gun at a gun range.

I keep hearing about the danger from Bears and Mountain Lions in these areas.

What other options are available?.

If you’re not very experienced in using a firearm in self-defense from bears, mountain lions, buying a gun is not the solution, remember self-defense begins with avoidance, then de-escalation, then violence.

Repellant spray, then make sure you can outrun the slowest person.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

No, not a citizen or legal resident alien. There are some exceptions, but you unlikely to be one.

https://www.shouselaw.com/az/defense/la ... ow-to-buy/

Or you go to a gun show and buy one.

dmg626 wrote:

Repellant spray, then make sure you can outrun the slowest person.

Like the last bit.

Kiwirob wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

No, not a citizen or legal resident alien. There are some exceptions, but you unlikely to be one.

https://www.shouselaw.com/az/defense/la ... ow-to-buy/

Or you go to a gun show and buy one.

Have you tried this out in reality?

There is always private sales. They are not regulated.

My question is: why Arizona and Nevada specifically? It sounds like you are camping in those states. If you are in a group camp ground, probably not needed. Even on hikes, just use common sense. Don't go up and pet the bear or hold the cub. That never ever ends well. Tell others where you are going hiking and hike in groups. Make noise as you are going along to warn wildlife of your presence.

Visiting rather than camping, (in at Phoenix and out from Las Vegas)

Keep hearing that these animals are a problem once you leave the city limits, so thought best to check.

Promise not to cuddle Yogi.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

No, not a citizen or legal resident alien. There are some exceptions, but you unlikely to be one.

https://www.shouselaw.com/az/defense/la ... ow-to-buy/

Ownership of a hunting permit counts, according to this document. (for a foreigner, that is) (Paragraph 18.4)
In Montana, annual hunting permit for an out of state person is like 15$ (in-state10$), available over the counter at most sporting goods stores. Maybe even local supermarkets, my memory is fuzzy on that one.
(No idea if this works in Arizona; hopefully it's not radically different).

Would that count as a valid hunting permit for the purposes of 18.4 above?

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

No, not a citizen or legal resident alien. There are some exceptions, but you unlikely to be one.

https://www.shouselaw.com/az/defense/la ... ow-to-buy/

Or you go to a gun show and buy one.

Have you tried this out in reality?

I haven’t but I know someone who did, it was many years ago. My flatmate in London and his friends bought a yellow school bus and toured around the country for 6 months, they bought a couple of guns at a gun show then dumped them in a river when they were ready to leave.

Kiwirob wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

Or you go to a gun show and buy one.

Have you tried this out in reality?

I haven’t but I know someone who did, it was many years ago. My flatmate in London and his friends bought a yellow school bus and toured around the country for 6 months, they bought a couple of guns at a gun show then dumped them in a river when they were ready to leave.

Very responsible, I’m impressed by their actions. I’ve been to a number of gun shows, most sellers have FFLs and are required to complete ATF 4473 and do a NICS check.

Kiwirob wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

Or you go to a gun show and buy one.

Have you tried this out in reality?

I haven’t but I know someone who did, it was many years ago. My flatmate in London and his friends bought a yellow school bus and toured around the country for 6 months, they bought a couple of guns at a gun show then dumped them in a river when they were ready to leave.

The idea of touring the US in an old school bus sounds pretty fun, but you realize that your flatmates blatantly violated US law, right? Just because they did it, doesn't make it legal, and passing additional laws to limit legal gun owners wont stop criminals, as your example shows. Every gun show I have attended, the dealers do all the required and correct paperwork. On top of that, the ATF and various other law enforcement agencies like to do undercover sting operations at gun shows to curtail the less than honest dealers.

bpatus297 wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Have you tried this out in reality?

I haven’t but I know someone who did, it was many years ago. My flatmate in London and his friends bought a yellow school bus and toured around the country for 6 months, they bought a couple of guns at a gun show then dumped them in a river when they were ready to leave.

The idea of touring the US in an old school bus sounds pretty fun, but you realize that your flatmates blatantly violated US law, right? Just because they did it, doesn't make it legal, and passing additional laws to limit legal gun owners wont stop criminals, as your example shows. Every gun show I have attended, the dealers do all the required and correct paperwork. On top of that, the ATF and various other law enforcement agencies like to do undercover sting operations at gun shows to curtail the less than honest dealers.

This was 30 years ago.

Kiwirob wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

I haven’t but I know someone who did, it was many years ago. My flatmate in London and his friends bought a yellow school bus and toured around the country for 6 months, they bought a couple of guns at a gun show then dumped them in a river when they were ready to leave.

The idea of touring the US in an old school bus sounds pretty fun, but you realize that your flatmates blatantly violated US law, right? Just because they did it, doesn't make it legal, and passing additional laws to limit legal gun owners wont stop criminals, as your example shows. Every gun show I have attended, the dealers do all the required and correct paperwork. On top of that, the ATF and various other law enforcement agencies like to do undercover sting operations at gun shows to curtail the less than honest dealers.

This was 30 years ago.

Illegal then and still. Undercover stings happened then and now. Lucky but young and foolish are often put together.

bennett123 wrote:

Visiting rather than camping, (in at Phoenix and out from Las Vegas)

Keep hearing that these animals are a problem once you leave the city limits, so thought best to check.

Promise not to cuddle Yogi.

Some wildlife make their way into cities, too. Coyotes and cougars are regular visitors all over Seattle, Portland, Oakland, and San Jose, so not just the wilderness. I have never felt the need to carry a gun while in the forest, but if you feel you need to, go on but use common sense.

scbriml wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

Perhaps someone can confirm the situation for me.

If I fly to the US, would I be able to buy a gun in Arizona or Nevada.

I am not a US citizen and would be in the US as a tourist.

By all accounts, it’s ludicrously easy to purchase guns illegally, so there’s always that.

And you can probably check it in your luggage going home without a problem. I doubt they check registration info.

It's super fun having regulations on par with a failed state.

(I'm not a psycho that participates in Bring Your Gun to Work Day, so I have no idea how guns and travel actually work)

Phosphorus wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

No, not a citizen or legal resident alien. There are some exceptions, but you unlikely to be one.

https://www.shouselaw.com/az/defense/la ... ow-to-buy/

Ownership of a hunting permit counts, according to this document. (for a foreigner, that is) (Paragraph 18.4)
In Montana, annual hunting permit for an out of state person is like 15$ (in-state10$), available over the counter at most sporting goods stores. Maybe even local supermarkets, my memory is fuzzy on that one.
(No idea if this works in Arizona; hopefully it's not radically different).

Would that count as a valid hunting permit for the purposes of 18.4 above?

It definitely does.

I am European living in Europe and hunted in several states (Montana, Alaska, Washington...) I carried my own guns but the local guides told us about foreigners that preferred to buy locally and then sell the gun back to the guides or to a range.

It was essentially a cheap rental. Buying certain guns/calibers is terribly expensive in some places.

After the election results later this week I think it's likely that you'd be charged with a felony if you didn't have at least an assault rifle, an extra large mag, a glock or two and a good set of knuckle dusters.

But don't get pregnant.

bluecrew wrote:

scbriml wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

Perhaps someone can confirm the situation for me.

If I fly to the US, would I be able to buy a gun in Arizona or Nevada.

I am not a US citizen and would be in the US as a tourist.

By all accounts, it’s ludicrously easy to purchase guns illegally, so there’s always that.

And you can probably check it in your luggage going home without a problem. I doubt they check registration info.

It's super fun having regulations on par with a failed state.

(I'm not a psycho that participates in Bring Your Gun to Work Day, so I have no idea how guns and travel actually work)

Is your position the US is Somalia or like Mexico? Somalia has no laws or enforcement. Mexico has draconian gun laws and sky high crime like the US mostly with drug gangs.

bennett123 wrote:

phatfarmlines wrote:

Tourists are welcome to rent a gun at a gun range.

I keep hearing about the danger from Bears and Mountain Lions in these areas.

What other options are available?.

Crossbow

Flanker7 wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

phatfarmlines wrote:

Tourists are welcome to rent a gun at a gun range.

I keep hearing about the danger from Bears and Mountain Lions in these areas.

What other options are available?.

Crossbow

How about bear spray?

Probably the best option.

bennett123 wrote:

Probably the best option.

Or….just go hiking with people slower then you. Shouldn’t be a problem in the US.

If you're camping, I'd see if it's possible to rent some bear spray (it's way more expensive than normal pepper spray), or buy some and their it away when you're done.

JJJ wrote:

I am European living in Europe and hunted in several states (Montana, Alaska, Washington...) I carried my own guns but the local guides told us about foreigners that preferred to buy locally and then sell the gun back to the guides or to a range.

It was essentially a cheap rental. Buying certain guns/calibers is terribly expensive in some places.

There is no such thing as Montana.

Airstud wrote:

JJJ wrote:

I am European living in Europe and hunted in several states (Montana, Alaska, Washington...) I carried my own guns but the local guides told us about foreigners that preferred to buy locally and then sell the gun back to the guides or to a range.

It was essentially a cheap rental. Buying certain guns/calibers is terribly expensive in some places.

There is no such thing as Montana.

It's my favourite no such place in the world!

While it is possible to obtain a gun with a hunting license, that's not what the law intended. It's so people from a restricted firearms ownership country can come here to hunt and buy a gun to do it with. Most gun dealers won't sell you one because it's too much of a PITA.

johns624 wrote:

While it is possible to obtain a gun with a hunting license, that's not what the law intended. It's so people from a restricted firearms ownership country can come here to hunt and buy a gun to do it with. Most gun dealers won't sell you one because it's too much of a PITA.

Isn't this exactly the scenario we are discussing?
A foreigner comes to the USA from a country, where gun laws are more restrictive than USA (if I would guess that's pretty much the rest of the world, would I be wrong?).
A foreigner wants to hunt, goes buys a hunting permit for a nominal fee.
A foreigner uses said hunting permit as a legal avenue to acquire firearms.

Anything wrong with this?

Phosphorus wrote:

johns624 wrote:

While it is possible to obtain a gun with a hunting license, that's not what the law intended. It's so people from a restricted firearms ownership country can come here to hunt and buy a gun to do it with. Most gun dealers won't sell you one because it's too much of a PITA.

Isn't this exactly the scenario we are discussing?
A foreigner comes to the USA from a country, where gun laws are more restrictive than USA (if I would guess that's pretty much the rest of the world, would I be wrong?).
A foreigner wants to hunt, goes buys a hunting permit for a nominal fee.
A foreigner uses said hunting permit as a legal avenue to acquire firearms.

Anything wrong with this?

Nothing wrong with it here in the USA. I welcome the additional tax revenue. What to do about taking the firearm home with you is the issue.

LabQuest wrote:

Phosphorus wrote:

johns624 wrote:

While it is possible to obtain a gun with a hunting license, that's not what the law intended. It's so people from a restricted firearms ownership country can come here to hunt and buy a gun to do it with. Most gun dealers won't sell you one because it's too much of a PITA.

Isn't this exactly the scenario we are discussing?
A foreigner comes to the USA from a country, where gun laws are more restrictive than USA (if I would guess that's pretty much the rest of the world, would I be wrong?).
A foreigner wants to hunt, goes buys a hunting permit for a nominal fee.
A foreigner uses said hunting permit as a legal avenue to acquire firearms.

Anything wrong with this?

Nothing wrong with it here in the USA. I welcome the additional tax revenue. What to do about taking the firearm home with you is the issue.

If you can hire a car ...

LabQuest wrote:

Phosphorus wrote:

johns624 wrote:

While it is possible to obtain a gun with a hunting license, that's not what the law intended. It's so people from a restricted firearms ownership country can come here to hunt and buy a gun to do it with. Most gun dealers won't sell you one because it's too much of a PITA.

Isn't this exactly the scenario we are discussing?
A foreigner comes to the USA from a country, where gun laws are more restrictive than USA (if I would guess that's pretty much the rest of the world, would I be wrong?).
A foreigner wants to hunt, goes buys a hunting permit for a nominal fee.
A foreigner uses said hunting permit as a legal avenue to acquire firearms.

Anything wrong with this?

Nothing wrong with it here in the USA. I welcome the additional tax revenue. What to do about taking the firearm home with you is the issue.

I remember pawn shops in the US, most had firearms on sale -- which, I would guess, means they are legitimate firearms dealers, correct?
If all other sales options failed -- like if I failed to sell the guns to a gun store -- could I hawk guns off to a pawn store, for little money, and be on my merry way?

Speaking of which -- would it be expected for me to retain a receipt, as in "gun was sold to 'Joey's pawn store'" paper, or something of that nature? Or is it "out of sight, out of mind" sort of situation?

If the pawn shop sells guns; they are an FFL and have to process the 4473; do the NICS check; etc. Nothing like your idea.

Second, countries where people are wealthy enough to travel to America to hunt in nearly all cases have provisions for sporting arms ownership, certainly EU countries do. Countries with the greatest restrictions allow for those privileged residents with that kind of wealth to own hunting arms by dint of corruption. There are hunters world-wide.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

If the pawn shop sells guns; they are an FFL and have to process the 4473; do the NICS check; etc. Nothing like your idea.

Second, countries where people are wealthy enough to travel to America to hunt in nearly all cases have provisions for sporting arms ownership, certainly EU countries do. Countries with the greatest restrictions allow for those privileged residents with that kind of wealth to own hunting arms by dint of corruption. There are hunters world-wide.

And private sales?

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/ ... ately.html

Read the second sentence.

When any gun proposals come up, the same chorus screams about how guns are illegal in socialist places like Europe, but you just said they have guns in Europe. We will remember this.

seb146 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

If the pawn shop sells guns; they are an FFL and have to process the 4473; do the NICS check; etc. Nothing like your idea.

Second, countries where people are wealthy enough to travel to America to hunt in nearly all cases have provisions for sporting arms ownership, certainly EU countries do. Countries with the greatest restrictions allow for those privileged residents with that kind of wealth to own hunting arms by dint of corruption. There are hunters world-wide.

And private sales?

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/ ... ately.html

Read the second sentence.

When any gun proposals come up, the same chorus screams about how guns are illegal in socialist places like Europe, but you just said they have guns in Europe. We will remember this.

In the UK it is a privilege you apply for, not a constitutional right.

Phosphorus wrote:

johns624 wrote:

While it is possible to obtain a gun with a hunting license, that's not what the law intended. It's so people from a restricted firearms ownership country can come here to hunt and buy a gun to do it with. Most gun dealers won't sell you one because it's too much of a PITA.

Isn't this exactly the scenario we are discussing?
A foreigner comes to the USA from a country, where gun laws are more restrictive than USA (if I would guess that's pretty much the rest of the world, would I be wrong?).
A foreigner wants to hunt, goes buys a hunting permit for a nominal fee.
A foreigner uses said hunting permit as a legal avenue to acquire firearms.

Anything wrong with this?

The OP never mentions going hunting. In most states, hunting for certain game by non-residents requires a guide.

bennett123 wrote:

seb146 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

If the pawn shop sells guns; they are an FFL and have to process the 4473; do the NICS check; etc. Nothing like your idea.

Second, countries where people are wealthy enough to travel to America to hunt in nearly all cases have provisions for sporting arms ownership, certainly EU countries do. Countries with the greatest restrictions allow for those privileged residents with that kind of wealth to own hunting arms by dint of corruption. There are hunters world-wide.

And private sales?

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/ ... ately.html

Read the second sentence.

When any gun proposals come up, the same chorus screams about how guns are illegal in socialist places like Europe, but you just said they have guns in Europe. We will remember this.

In the UK it is a privilege you apply for, not a constitutional right.

The problem with privileges is that the "privileged" normally have more of them.

johns624 wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

seb146 wrote:

And private sales?

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/ ... ately.html

Read the second sentence.

When any gun proposals come up, the same chorus screams about how guns are illegal in socialist places like Europe, but you just said they have guns in Europe. We will remember this.

In the UK it is a privilege you apply for, not a constitutional right.

The problem with privileges is that the "privileged" normally have more of them.

I was explaining the difference in approach between UK and US.

In the US, the default position is that you are entitled to have a gun.

In the UK, the default is why do you need a gun.

bennett123 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

In the UK it is a privilege you apply for, not a constitutional right.

The problem with privileges is that the "privileged" normally have more of them.

I was explaining the difference in approach between UK and US.

In the US, the default position is that you are entitled to have a gun.

In the UK, the default is why do you need a gun.

I know what you meant. My point was that the rich and famous are more privileged. It's almost impossible to get a carry permit in California. Yet, many famous people in Hollywood and even antigun Diane Feinstein have them.

seb146 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

If the pawn shop sells guns; they are an FFL and have to process the 4473; do the NICS check; etc. Nothing like your idea.

Second, countries where people are wealthy enough to travel to America to hunt in nearly all cases have provisions for sporting arms ownership, certainly EU countries do. Countries with the greatest restrictions allow for those privileged residents with that kind of wealth to own hunting arms by dint of corruption. There are hunters world-wide.

And private sales?

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/ ... ately.html

Read the second sentence.

When any gun proposals come up, the same chorus screams about how guns are illegal in socialist places like Europe, but you just said they have guns in Europe. We will remember this.

Did I mention private sales anywhere? Are there private sellers? Yes. Are there many at “gun shows”? No. Most shows vet their sellers, so FFLs are predominant.

Second, I’ve never screamed “guns are illegal in socialist places”; stop rewriting history. I have stated that guns are rare and subject to greater regulation in many, most, countries. Yes, much of Europe has an active hunting tradition, but it’s very divorced from the American scene. I’ve carried guns on-board planes in Europe and Africa. I have many friends who brought guns to Europe for hunting and competitions. France is quite simple; the UK looks at long guns has a revenue making charging an obscene £125 in AND out for the police inspection.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

If the pawn shop sells guns; they are an FFL and have to process the 4473; do the NICS check; etc. Nothing like your idea.

Second, countries where people are wealthy enough to travel to America to hunt in nearly all cases have provisions for sporting arms ownership, certainly EU countries do. Countries with the greatest restrictions allow for those privileged residents with that kind of wealth to own hunting arms by dint of corruption. There are hunters world-wide.

I think you miss my point. I'm not advocating going to a pawn shop to buy a gun illegally.

My idea of a pawn shop (which of course should be an FFL, if it sells guns) is to get rid of a gun at the end of stay in the US. Upthread there was a question "What to do about taking the firearm home with you is the issue."
A pawn shop is an answer to THAT question.

It was already established earlier, unless we are all horribly wrong, that is -- that buying a hunting permit/license is a valid avenue for a non-resident alien to become entitled to purchasing guns in the USA.

If it’s a pawn shop that buys and sells guns, it WILL be an FFL. No, the pawn shop is not THE answers it’s an answer and will take all the relevant details from a seller. And, it’s probably the worst place to sell one, plenty of legit gun dealers whose business is trading guns. As has been stated, a hunting license is a legal avenue, but an unlikely one. The OP is not asking about hunting,

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

seb146 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

If the pawn shop sells guns; they are an FFL and have to process the 4473; do the NICS check; etc. Nothing like your idea.

Second, countries where people are wealthy enough to travel to America to hunt in nearly all cases have provisions for sporting arms ownership, certainly EU countries do. Countries with the greatest restrictions allow for those privileged residents with that kind of wealth to own hunting arms by dint of corruption. There are hunters world-wide.

And private sales?

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/ ... ately.html

Read the second sentence.

When any gun proposals come up, the same chorus screams about how guns are illegal in socialist places like Europe, but you just said they have guns in Europe. We will remember this.

Did I mention private sales anywhere? Are there private sellers? Yes. Are there many at “gun shows”? No. Most shows vet their sellers, so FFLs are predominant.

Second, I’ve never screamed “guns are illegal in socialist places”; stop rewriting history. I have stated that guns are rare and subject to greater regulation in many, most, countries. Yes, much of Europe has an active hunting tradition, but it’s very divorced from the American scene. I’ve carried guns on-board planes in Europe and Africa. I have many friends who brought guns to Europe for hunting and competitions. France is quite simple; the UK looks at long guns has a revenue making charging an obscene £125 in AND out for the police inspection.

I wasn't saying you specifically, but, since you brought it up, you completely ignored private sales. Which happen.

Guns can be transported in the United States as well. There are regulations, as there are in Europe, but they can be transported. As pointed out above, the attitude in the States about guns is "you can have as many as you want because Second Amendment!"