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CaptHadley
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US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:58 am

Can someone explain this over the top adoration of our armed services? So today i'm inundated with all things military, I get that as it's military appreciation day or whatever it's called. But if i'm flying somewhere I'm subjected to the military can board first, we thank you for the grave sacrifice to our country. Go to a store/restaurant/gas station/whatever and it's show us your ID and we'll genuflect and give you 80% off. You signed up for this "service" and the last time the good old U S of A was ever "In doubt" was WW2 and that's stretching it to say the least. I'd rather more adulation be given to our cops, firemen, nurses and teachers. They make a hell of a lot more difference.
 
Newark727
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Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:09 am

Should go back to calling it Armistice Day like the Europeans do, I think. Too easy to forget that it's commemorating the end of the slaughter of a whole generation.
 
hh65man
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:52 am

Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:48 am

Newark727 wrote:
Should go back to calling it Armistice Day like the Europeans do, I think. Too easy to forget that it's commemorating the end of the slaughter of a whole generation.


Completely agree, it was wholesale slaughter on a industrial scale. Down under we pay special tribute the the 11 hour, 11 day of the 11 month. A moment of silence for Lest We Forget.

And for the OPs post, correct there too. A recruit out of boot camp in uniform, flying home shouldn’t be having special privileges applied to him. He’s probably the just the about the youngest and strongest person standing at the gate. He should board last.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:20 pm

There is a peculiar politicization of the various uniformed services, and it does result in some financial benefits. It also is a third rail political issue, touch it in the wrong way, and you may get fried. To address the OP, military only get early boarding if they are in uniform. So in my military days I wore a uniform, traveling alone and when with wife, she got to get on board with me. Those guys and gals who were in Iraq and Afghanistan earned the privilege. Like wise during Vietnam (me). During wartime I think the privilege is deserved. I was opposed to all of those wars, and think they had a lot to do with our current sad political situation. .
 
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fallap
Posts: 1117
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Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:35 pm

I have mixed feelings about the near God like status bestowed upon servicemen and -women in the US. On the other hand, the US military has done an amazing job working 24/7 shipping much needed arms and supplies to the Ukrainians. They did a remarkable job evacuating thousands from Kabul last year, and in general the US military is an impressive and flexible power, that, when used for good, is capable of achieving impressive results. Sadly, at the cost of too many young men and women. At the end of the day, freedom and the liberal democratic order we try to withhold in the West can only be guaranteed by military force, that requires people who are willing to put on a uniform and face potential death, disfigurement, and/or physiological damages beyond repair. That is still something that deserves respect, even the young fresh-out-of-boot Private.
 
TriJets
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Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:43 pm

I get what the OP is saying but I think our military personnel should be recognized not just for what they do or have done but what they signed up to do, if that makes any sense. Yes, the young PFC straight out of boot camp hasn't fought for his country, but if things go south he signed up to be flown 8,000 miles away from home at a moment's notice and put his life on the line while the rest of us debate the merits of his actions on social media. For that fact, I don't mind the discounts or the early boarding privileges.
 
chimborazo
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:51 pm

Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:29 pm

TriJets wrote:
I get what the OP is saying but I think our military personnel should be recognized not just for what they do or have done but what they signed up to do, if that makes any sense. Yes, the young PFC straight out of boot camp hasn't fought for his country, but if things go south he signed up to be flown 8,000 miles away from home at a moment's notice and put his life on the line while the rest of us debate the merits of his actions on social media. For that fact, I don't mind the discounts or the early boarding privileges.


And the police have signed up for that every shift they do.

Over the last couple of decades it has become harder and harder to think of the military in US and my country UK as heroes. That’s not the individuals fault, that’s the fault of the politicians who have sent them into wars in parts of the world they had no business being in. As noted above, there is no military threat to the US. Just terrorism which tends to be exacerbated not reduced by US military intervention abroad. They are no longer “fighting for their country” in the military interventions of the last few decades.

Aside from all that, just because you happen to be in the military (it’s a choice, there is no conscription our countries) is a weird reason to say: okay, you can board a plane first. I genuinely don’t get it. And any self-respecting service person should say thanks but no, I’ll join the queue with everyone else (here we get into the kerfuffle which is boarding a plane where there inevitably won’t be enough baggage space so I can understand military personnel “using” the ability to get on first but in my view they shouldn’t).
 
TriJets
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Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:13 pm

Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 3:20 pm

chimborazo wrote:
TriJets wrote:
I get what the OP is saying but I think our military personnel should be recognized not just for what they do or have done but what they signed up to do, if that makes any sense. Yes, the young PFC straight out of boot camp hasn't fought for his country, but if things go south he signed up to be flown 8,000 miles away from home at a moment's notice and put his life on the line while the rest of us debate the merits of his actions on social media. For that fact, I don't mind the discounts or the early boarding privileges.


And the police have signed up for that every shift they do.

Over the last couple of decades it has become harder and harder to think of the military in US and my country UK as heroes. That’s not the individuals fault, that’s the fault of the politicians who have sent them into wars in parts of the world they had no business being in. As noted above, there is no military threat to the US. Just terrorism which tends to be exacerbated not reduced by US military intervention abroad. They are no longer “fighting for their country” in the military interventions of the last few decades.

Aside from all that, just because you happen to be in the military (it’s a choice, there is no conscription our countries) is a weird reason to say: okay, you can board a plane first. I genuinely don’t get it. And any self-respecting service person should say thanks but no, I’ll join the queue with everyone else (here we get into the kerfuffle which is boarding a plane where there inevitably won’t be enough baggage space so I can understand military personnel “using” the ability to get on first but in my view they shouldn’t).


I agree that police officers and firefighters also sign up to risk their lives for the public, and likewise have no problems with recognizing them and if businesses or airlines choose to do the same.

With regard to the military, one can argue that in the aftermath of 9/11, Al Qaeda was absolutely a threat to the US and that the soldiers who fought there were killing terrorists in Afghanistan who otherwise might have targeted civilians in the US or western Europe. Iraq....that is a different story.
 
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NIKV69
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Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 3:48 pm

CaptHadley wrote:
Can someone explain this over the top adoration of our armed services? So today i'm inundated with all things military, I get that as it's military appreciation day or whatever it's called. But if i'm flying somewhere I'm subjected to the military can board first, we thank you for the grave sacrifice to our country. Go to a store/restaurant/gas station/whatever and it's show us your ID and we'll genuflect and give you 80% off. You signed up for this "service" and the last time the good old U S of A was ever "In doubt" was WW2 and that's stretching it to say the least. I'd rather more adulation be given to our cops, firemen, nurses and teachers. They make a hell of a lot more difference.


You are lucky you don't live in Israel or you would be speaking a much different tone about the armed forces.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:48 pm

Seems like a small inconvenience to honor service members. It doesn't bother me at all. I'd have no problem with same respect being given to police and firefighters, on their national day.

I have several friends who are career service people, they do give up a lot, especially early in their careers at the lower ranks.

Might be more productive to think about not having them, and what that would mean.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:13 pm

My first job was escorting UMs and a lot of times I drove a golf cart to do it. Besides the kids, when I was cruising around at the end of my shift, I'd take the older (not elderly) couple that tipped me $10, the pretty girl and her pretty friend, or the uniformed veteran.

And I was only allowed to drive the kids, but I was 18, and large and in charge.
 
bluecrew
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Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:54 pm

hh65man wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Should go back to calling it Armistice Day like the Europeans do, I think. Too easy to forget that it's commemorating the end of the slaughter of a whole generation.


Completely agree, it was wholesale slaughter on a industrial scale. Down under we pay special tribute the the 11 hour, 11 day of the 11 month. A moment of silence for Lest We Forget.

And for the OPs post, correct there too. A recruit out of boot camp in uniform, flying home shouldn’t be having special privileges applied to him. He’s probably the just the about the youngest and strongest person standing at the gate. He should board last.

Part of the reason for this is we had a remarkably different experience in WW1 than any other belligerent, maybe save for Italy.

While France lost over 1m, we lost approximately the same number of soldiers as Canada. Economies were almost permanently crippled by a generational lack of labor - the US just went along as normal.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:05 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Those guys and gals who were in Iraq and Afghanistan earned the privilege. Like wise during Vietnam (me). During wartime I think the privilege is deserved. I was opposed to all of those wars, and think they had a lot to do with our current sad political situation. .


Even for the vast majority of serving personal who don't go anywhere near the pointy end of a conflict? Why do they deserve any respect?
 
VMCA787
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:31 pm

Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:14 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Why do they deserve any respect?


I suppose for the same reason you deserve respect! Is it that much of a deal to let someone go before you? If it is, I would say that is a really petty life!!
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:18 pm

VMCA787 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Why do they deserve any respect?


I suppose for the same reason you deserve respect! Is it that much of a deal to let someone go before you? If it is, I would say that is a really petty life!!


I understand giving combat veterans there due, especially those who were injured but the supply clerk, the mechanic, the drone operator? Why do they deserve to be placed on a pedestal?
 
bennett123
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Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:27 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
VMCA787 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Why do they deserve any respect?


I suppose for the same reason you deserve respect! Is it that much of a deal to let someone go before you? If it is, I would say that is a really petty life!!


I understand giving combat veterans there due, especially those who were injured but the supply clerk, the mechanic, the drone operator? Why do they deserve to be placed on a pedestal?


How do you know which ones saw combat?.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 9123
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:36 pm

I can understand that enlisted military personal deserve a certain level of support and respect along with other professions such as law enforcement, firefighters, etc. But the US just takes it to a whole different level that I just don't understand.
 
M564038
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Re: US military

Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:54 pm

I have lots of close family in the millitary(non-us), and they found it comical too. (At least 2 of them has seen some serious combat)
They’re there because it’s the right mix of technical stuff, travelling, challenge, feeling close to the (political) action, and an off-chance of defending what is dear to them: Democracy, liberty, modernity, equality. They get well paid, even got paid during education and thus have zero student loan, are highly educated with the potential of attractive jobs if and when they are post millitary, and have nice apartments in the nice parts if town. They are NOT there to sacrifice themselves for some random cause with medals and salutes in return, they don’t demand to be seated first, they don’t keep millitary memorobilia at home and they are not interrested in guns when not at work.

The millitary used to be about sacrificing your life to gain some land and riches to a king or emperor which gave you nothing back execpt medals and a salute by your grave.

Making the PEOPLE give you random salutes and «honors» after you’re dead or as a cheap way to keep you willing to sacrifice yourself for some so far unknown case is equally absurd.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 1068
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:31 am

CaptHadley wrote:
Can someone explain this over the top adoration of our armed services? So today i'm inundated with all things military, I get that as it's military appreciation day or whatever it's called. But if i'm flying somewhere I'm subjected to the military can board first, we thank you for the grave sacrifice to our country. Go to a store/restaurant/gas station/whatever and it's show us your ID and we'll genuflect and give you 80% off. You signed up for this "service" and the last time the good old U S of A was ever "In doubt" was WW2 and that's stretching it to say the least. I'd rather more adulation be given to our cops, firemen, nurses and teachers. They make a hell of a lot more difference.


Most members of the military today aren’t even working in combat roles. Here’s a list of available roles in the Australian military:

https://www.defencejobs.gov.au/jobs?tab ... lsrc=aw.ds

Very few combat oriented. Most are things like techniciansC administration, HR, electrician, warehousing, logistics, mechanics etc.

The other difference is those in civilian emergency services like firefighters ambulance or police have to see and experience brutal stuff almost every shift in their career. In today’s military you only do a few years in service, and maybe get deployed for a few months out of that.

Can you imagine a police officer who’s just had a knife wielding maniac try to stab them, or a firefighter having to carry corpses out of a burned out building, having to wait at the back of the line while a Navy HR officer or Air Force administration personnel who perform a 9-5 job in an office in their home country get to board first while being “thanked” for their service? It would make me want to vomit.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 1068
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:44 am

Kiwirob wrote:
I understand giving combat veterans there due, especially those who were injured but the supply clerk, the mechanic, the drone operator? Why do they deserve to be placed on a pedestal?


In Australia several years ago Virgin Australia introduced a plan to let Australian military members board first and be “thanked for their service” in welcome aboard announcements. This was decried as “too American” and quickly dropped.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... barrassing

Even the former Army officer who wrote that article said that civilian emergency services like firefighters and police generally experience much more trauma than the average member of the military.

This “thank you for your service” culture is uniquely American, satirised perfectly here by the legendary Larry David:

https://youtu.be/LPquarz16wQ
 
hh65man
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:52 am

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:40 am

ACDC8 wrote:
I can understand that enlisted military personal deserve a certain level of support and respect along with other professions such as law enforcement, firefighters, etc. But the US just takes it to a whole different level that I just don't understand.


Didn’t use to be like that. When I joined up (Coast Guard) very late 70s it was post late Vietnam, being in the Military many of people looked down on,or with indifference to the military. At least it’s what many of us experienced from local people. I was stationed at a small boat station, rescue was our primary duty so the local crowd did treat us vastly different. Not so when I was near Norfolk. As to todays treatment I agree with a statement above, everyone should be treated with the same respect. I don’t care if someone cuts in-line because of their uniform, just feel everyone deserves the same treatment. It is perplexing and difficult to understand.
 
hh65man
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:52 am

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:47 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
I understand giving combat veterans there due, especially those who were injured but the supply clerk, the mechanic, the drone operator? Why do they deserve to be placed on a pedestal?


In Australia several years ago Virgin Australia introduced a plan to let Australian military members board first and be “thanked for their service” in welcome aboard announcements. This was decried as “too American” and quickly dropped.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... barrassing

Even the former Army officer who wrote that article said that civilian emergency services like firefighters and police generally experience much more trauma than the average member of the military

This “thank you for your service” culture is uniquely American, satirised perfectly here by the legendary Larry David:

https://youtu.be/LPquarz16wQ


Sounds so Aussie…
 
BN747
Posts: 8083
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:42 am

Kiwirob wrote:
VMCA787 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Why do they deserve any respect?


I suppose for the same reason you deserve respect! Is it that much of a deal to let someone go before you? If it is, I would say that is a really petty life!!


I understand giving combat veterans there due, especially those who were injured but the supply clerk, the mechanic, the drone operator? Why do they deserve to be placed on a pedestal?



That's because you have no appreciation for the service's supporting systems.
An airline can have the best pilots but the worse cabin service, CSRs, ground services = shitty airline.

As a USAF vet, I don't like hearing 'thank you for your service', I'd prefer a generic 'good day' greeting.
The Thank You for Your Service' theme has a cheap ring to it as its passed on to the worst military men and the best equally, one makes wearing the uniform a thing of pride...
the other a complete disgrace in uniform receiving accolades deserved for others - the appreciation means well but it is certainly not deserved by everyone (in uniform) most yes, but certainly not all.

American police? Look at their history, respect was earned largely out of fear. intimidation, brutally, systemic corruption on many levels.
Police are a necessary staple of civilized society, were we more civilized...we'd have need for military and less need of police.

Given that we live in the most comfortable and least physically tasking period in all human history to-date, we are still not mature enough
to respect spouses equally (usually due to ignorant religious teachings) and children, we're petty with neighbors and general annoyances thus the police
are called to referee illogical puerile, usually inebriate adults or unruly teens and feral kids. The most demanding need for police.
The criminal need has been here since the first horse thief and burglar...we are by design to produce some odd numbers who just have buck the system or right or wrong.

The police come from society, if society is good, police are good, if society has flaws (and most do) so goes the police they employ.
Get societies to respect everyone, the police will follow...until then no general widespread pats on the back til the police forces step up
as they are given a charge of authority over human life, they need to respect that life within reason...a crazy grandma with a crew driver is not lethal if you are properly trained.
None of our military, charged with defending the nation, has a spotty record as our policing services...they must rival the military to get the military recognition you wish
and it not be extended 'just because'. Merit must mean something.

More female cops and chiefs are making those changes from what I've seen, but more are needed.


Fire fighters and EMTs, why not, I wave at those guys when I passed them having lunch.



BN747
 
hh65man
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:52 am

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:43 am

BN747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
VMCA787 wrote:

I suppose for the same reason you deserve respect! Is it that much of a deal to let someone go before you? If it is, I would say that is a really petty life!!


I understand giving combat veterans there due, especially those who were injured but the supply clerk, the mechanic, the drone operator? Why do they deserve to be placed on a pedestal?



That's because you have no appreciation for the service's supporting systems.
An airline can have the best pilots but the worse cabin service, CSRs, ground services = shitty airline.

As a USAF vet, I don't like hearing 'thank you for your service', I'd prefer a generic 'good day' greeting.
The Thank You for Your Service' theme has a cheap ring to it as its passed on to the worst military men and the best equally, one makes wearing the uniform a thing of pride...
the other a complete disgrace in uniform receiving accolades deserved for others - the appreciation means well but it is certainly not deserved by everyone (in uniform) most yes, but certainly not all.

American police? Look at their history, respect was earned largely out of fear. intimidation, brutally, systemic corruption on many levels.
Police are a necessary staple of civilized society, were we more civilized...we'd have need for military and less need of police.

Given that we live in the most comfortable and least physically tasking period in all human history to-date, we are still not mature enough
to respect spouses equally (usually due to ignorant religious teachings) and children, we're petty with neighbors and general annoyances thus the police
are called to referee illogical puerile, usually inebriate adults or unruly teens and feral kids. The most demanding need for police.
The criminal need has been here since the first horse thief and burglar...we are by design to produce some odd numbers who just have buck the system or right or wrong.

The police come from society, if society is good, police are good, if society has flaws (and most do) so goes the police they employ.
Get societies to respect everyone, the police will follow...until then no general widespread pats on the back til the police forces step up
as they are given a charge of authority over human life, they need to respect that life within reason...a crazy grandma with a crew driver is not lethal if you are properly trained.
None of our military, charged with defending the nation, has a spotty record as our policing services...they must rival the military to get the military recognition you wish
and it not be extended 'just because'. Merit must mean something.

More female cops and chiefs are making those changes from what I've seen, but more are needed.


Fire fighters and EMTs, why not, I wave at those guys when I passed them having lunch.



BN747


We’ll said, last week a women thanked me for my service, have never been thanked before and it did feel odd to hear. Caught me off guard, so just said thanks..while thinking to myself weird.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 14647
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:53 am

bennett123 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
VMCA787 wrote:

I suppose for the same reason you deserve respect! Is it that much of a deal to let someone go before you? If it is, I would say that is a really petty life!!


I understand giving combat veterans there due, especially those who were injured but the supply clerk, the mechanic, the drone operator? Why do they deserve to be placed on a pedestal?


How do you know which ones saw combat?.


You don't so you just treat them the same as everyone else, no special treatment, it's cringeworthy.
 
BN747
Posts: 8083
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:14 am

hh65man wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

I understand giving combat veterans there due, especially those who were injured but the supply clerk, the mechanic, the drone operator? Why do they deserve to be placed on a pedestal?



That's because you have no appreciation for the service's supporting systems.
An airline can have the best pilots but the worse cabin service, CSRs, ground services = shitty airline.

As a USAF vet, I don't like hearing 'thank you for your service', I'd prefer a generic 'good day' greeting.
The Thank You for Your Service' theme has a cheap ring to it as its passed on to the worst military men and the best equally, one makes wearing the uniform a thing of pride...
the other a complete disgrace in uniform receiving accolades deserved for others - the appreciation means well but it is certainly not deserved by everyone (in uniform) most yes, but certainly not all.

American police? Look at their history, respect was earned largely out of fear. intimidation, brutally, systemic corruption on many levels.
Police are a necessary staple of civilized society, were we more civilized...we'd have need for military and less need of police.

Given that we live in the most comfortable and least physically tasking period in all human history to-date, we are still not mature enough
to respect spouses equally (usually due to ignorant religious teachings) and children, we're petty with neighbors and general annoyances thus the police
are called to referee illogical puerile, usually inebriate adults or unruly teens and feral kids. The most demanding need for police.
The criminal need has been here since the first horse thief and burglar...we are by design to produce some odd numbers who just have buck the system or right or wrong.

The police come from society, if society is good, police are good, if society has flaws (and most do) so goes the police they employ.
Get societies to respect everyone, the police will follow...until then no general widespread pats on the back til the police forces step up
as they are given a charge of authority over human life, they need to respect that life within reason...a crazy grandma with a crew driver is not lethal if you are properly trained.
None of our military, charged with defending the nation, has a spotty record as our policing services...they must rival the military to get the military recognition you wish
and it not be extended 'just because'. Merit must mean something.

More female cops and chiefs are making those changes from what I've seen, but more are needed.


Fire fighters and EMTs, why not, I wave at those guys when I passed them having lunch.



BN747


We’ll said, last week a women thanked me for my service, have never been thanked before and it did feel odd to hear. Caught me off guard, so just said thanks..while thinking to myself weird.



Thanks..and I remember the first rounds of same weirdness, awkwardness (we know a lot of guys are getting these greetings and are the least deserving), then you decide to either politely accept with a nod, smile or 'thank you' in return out of sheer courtesy and respect rather
than ignore them...they mean well or performing rote behavior out awareness of a nearby hovering supervisor.

BN747 wrote:
....
None of our military, charged with defending the nation, has a spotty record as our policing services...they must rival the military to get the military recognition you wish
and it not be extended 'just because'. Merit must mean something.

More female cops and chiefs are making those changes from what I've seen, but more are needed.


Fire fighters and EMTs, why not, I wave at those guys when I passed them having lunch.



BN747


I correct myself, the military has had a share of psychopaths and sociopaths from 'society' as well such as Lt. Cauley in Vietnam, the Abu Gharib and Gitmo sadistic prison guards>

It all reflects society

BN747
 
bennett123
Posts: 11654
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:50 am

BN747 wrote:
hh65man wrote:
BN747 wrote:


That's because you have no appreciation for the service's supporting systems.
An airline can have the best pilots but the worse cabin service, CSRs, ground services = shitty airline.

As a USAF vet, I don't like hearing 'thank you for your service', I'd prefer a generic 'good day' greeting.
The Thank You for Your Service' theme has a cheap ring to it as its passed on to the worst military men and the best equally, one makes wearing the uniform a thing of pride...
the other a complete disgrace in uniform receiving accolades deserved for others - the appreciation means well but it is certainly not deserved by everyone (in uniform) most yes, but certainly not all.

American police? Look at their history, respect was earned largely out of fear. intimidation, brutally, systemic corruption on many levels.
Police are a necessary staple of civilized society, were we more civilized...we'd have need for military and less need of police.

Given that we live in the most comfortable and least physically tasking period in all human history to-date, we are still not mature enough
to respect spouses equally (usually due to ignorant religious teachings) and children, we're petty with neighbors and general annoyances thus the police
are called to referee illogical puerile, usually inebriate adults or unruly teens and feral kids. The most demanding need for police.
The criminal need has been here since the first horse thief and burglar...we are by design to produce some odd numbers who just have buck the system or right or wrong.

The police come from society, if society is good, police are good, if society has flaws (and most do) so goes the police they employ.
Get societies to respect everyone, the police will follow...until then no general widespread pats on the back til the police forces step up
as they are given a charge of authority over human life, they need to respect that life within reason...a crazy grandma with a crew driver is not lethal if you are properly trained.
None of our military, charged with defending the nation, has a spotty record as our policing services...they must rival the military to get the military recognition you wish
and it not be extended 'just because'. Merit must mean something.

More female cops and chiefs are making those changes from what I've seen, but more are needed.


Fire fighters and EMTs, why not, I wave at those guys when I passed them having lunch.



BN747


We’ll said, last week a women thanked me for my service, have never been thanked before and it did feel odd to hear. Caught me off guard, so just said thanks..while thinking to myself weird.



Thanks..and I remember the first rounds of same weirdness, awkwardness (we know a lot of guys are getting these greetings and are the least deserving), then you decide to either politely accept with a nod, smile or 'thank you' in return out of sheer courtesy and respect rather
than ignore them...they mean well or performing rote behavior out awareness of a nearby hovering supervisor.

BN747 wrote:
....
None of our military, charged with defending the nation, has a spotty record as our policing services...they must rival the military to get the military recognition you wish
and it not be extended 'just because'. Merit must mean something.

More female cops and chiefs are making those changes from what I've seen, but more are needed.


Fire fighters and EMTs, why not, I wave at those guys when I passed them having lunch.



BN747


I correct myself, the military has had a share of psychopaths and sociopaths from 'society' as well such as Lt. Cauley in Vietnam, the Abu Gharib and Gitmo sadistic prison guards>

It all reflects society

BN747


I tend to agree.

These individuals clearly either thought it was OK, or that their superiors would turn a blind eye to it.
 
ReverseFlow
Posts: 698
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:40 pm

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:08 pm

In the Netflix documentary "Resurrecting a Legend"

https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/81471066

Jim "Pee Wee" Martin, a WW2 veteran from the 101st, says something that might apply to this thread:

"We volunteered to do this.
We trained to do this.
We were paid to do it.
That does not make you a hero."
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18617
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:37 pm

hh65man wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
I can understand that enlisted military personal deserve a certain level of support and respect along with other professions such as law enforcement, firefighters, etc. But the US just takes it to a whole different level that I just don't understand.


Didn’t use to be like that. When I joined up (Coast Guard) very late 70s it was post late Vietnam, being in the Military many of people looked down on,or with indifference to the military. At least it’s what many of us experienced from local people. I was stationed at a small boat station, rescue was our primary duty so the local crowd did treat us vastly different. Not so when I was near Norfolk. As to todays treatment I agree with a statement above, everyone should be treated with the same respect. I don’t care if someone cuts in-line because of their uniform, just feel everyone deserves the same treatment. It is perplexing and difficult to understand.


I agree - nobody should be on a pedestal simply because of whatever they do for a living. Especially as the OP notes, there are other people in public service, especially at the local level, who measurably contribute more to society than soldiers who are not in wartime.

The tie-in of over the top patriotism with over the top reverence for the military always reminds me of George Carlin's take on patriotism, God Bless America, and all that jazz: this level of pride simply makes no sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOmQP9guIl0
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 18617
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:43 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:
Can someone explain this over the top adoration of our armed services? So today i'm inundated with all things military, I get that as it's military appreciation day or whatever it's called. But if i'm flying somewhere I'm subjected to the military can board first, we thank you for the grave sacrifice to our country. Go to a store/restaurant/gas station/whatever and it's show us your ID and we'll genuflect and give you 80% off. You signed up for this "service" and the last time the good old U S of A was ever "In doubt" was WW2 and that's stretching it to say the least. I'd rather more adulation be given to our cops, firemen, nurses and teachers. They make a hell of a lot more difference.


You are lucky you don't live in Israel or you would be speaking a much different tone about the armed forces.


Not talking about Israel..what does that have to do with...anything?
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 1068
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:41 pm

Interesting statistics on fatality rate on the job:

https://www.facilities.udel.edu/safety/4689/

Loggers come in at #1, pilots at #2 (I would assume this to be more helicopter, agricultural, GA rather than airline). Miners, roofers, garbage collection, metalworkers, farmers, construction, firefighters, police are all in there. Military personnel nowhere to be seen.

This article found that even at the height of the Iraq war combat deaths from deployed US soldiers in Iraq was lower than many civilian occupations, loggers, fishing etc:

https://www.fool.com/investing/general/ ... erous.aspx

So “thanking” military because they do a more dangerous job than other professions is not accurate.
 
bennett123
Posts: 11654
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:08 pm

ReverseFlow wrote:
In the Netflix documentary "Resurrecting a Legend"

https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/81471066

Jim "Pee Wee" Martin, a WW2 veteran from the 101st, says something that might apply to this thread:

"We volunteered to do this.
We trained to do this.
We were paid to do it.
That does not make you a hero."


IMO he is too modest.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18617
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:25 pm

bennett123 wrote:
ReverseFlow wrote:
In the Netflix documentary "Resurrecting a Legend"

https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/81471066

Jim "Pee Wee" Martin, a WW2 veteran from the 101st, says something that might apply to this thread:

"We volunteered to do this.
We trained to do this.
We were paid to do it.
That does not make you a hero."


IMO he is too modest.


WW2 was another animal though...a battle for the very soul of humanity.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 5765
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:18 pm

I am uncomfortable with the 'thankyou for your service' greeting. Somehow I expect every other person in the world to appreciate what I do, while I am equally appreciative of the work they do. So a Hello, Good Day, God Bless you etc are all enough. That said, the trauma that some have experienced in combat does merit some consideration but few of us (me included) experienced that. Those who did experience that probably don't want to be reminded every several minutes of that experience. Mostly on veterans day we should be thinking of all of those service people now departed who did so much the bring us where we are.
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 14647
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:46 pm

The word Hero gets thrown around to much in the US for military personal as well.
 
BN747
Posts: 8083
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: US military

Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:07 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
The word Hero gets thrown around to much in the US for military personal as well.


Uh huh...and guess who thought that up without ever thinking through the harmful consequences such as 'cheapening' the very term itself?


BN747
 
stratosphere
Posts: 2150
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: US military

Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:48 pm

BN747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
The word Hero gets thrown around to much in the US for military personal as well.


Uh huh...and guess who thought that up without ever thinking through the harmful consequences such as 'cheapening' the very term itself?


BN747


Yeah you mean like "racist? That's a term that has been thrown around enough to have cheapened it that's for sure. If I was a young person having children today I would never recommend joining the armed forces. Not because it is not a noble worthwhile career path (I come from a military family) but because our politicians and the military industrial complex sticks our nose into too many others business. Too many conflicts and regime change attempts at the expense of our young people. One George W Bush and Dick Chaney come to mind they should be tried and sent to prison as war criminals. We get into conflict and do not do what we need to win. No one really wins a war but really the only one we can claim is probably WW2. Every other war or conflict we have not fought to win. Too many rules of engagement that tie the hands of our servicemen. So we spill a lot of blood and treasure and in the end get nothing for it.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 16307
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: US military

Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:03 pm

CaptHadley wrote:
Can someone explain this over the top adoration of our armed services? So today i'm inundated with all things military, I get that as it's military appreciation day or whatever it's called. But if i'm flying somewhere I'm subjected to the military can board first, we thank you for the grave sacrifice to our country. Go to a store/restaurant/gas station/whatever and it's show us your ID and we'll genuflect and give you 80% off. You signed up for this "service" and the last time the good old U S of A was ever "In doubt" was WW2 and that's stretching it to say the least. I'd rather more adulation be given to our cops, firemen, nurses and teachers. They make a hell of a lot more difference.


You have to give a lot of respect to people who have signed on the dotted line to do whatever Uncle Sam asks of them. There is no difficulty in honoring and giving a bit of hero worship to that position.
There is nothing wrong with doing that for firefighters, nurses, cops, or teachers as well.

I know former members of the miltary that do no seek out the glory afterwards, or are too traumatized by their service to discuss what wen on. I also know people that were mostly in Amazon training that go all out for the respect they feel they deserve.

We need a strong military, and when the economy is good they don't get a lot of recruits, so you need to hero worship it a bit to keep the draft from coming back. An all volunteer service is better than a drafted one .

The training the military gives actually helps in many of the fields you listed. Many of the latter service jobs are fileld by people who served in the military.
 
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NIKV69
Posts: 15472
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: US military

Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:31 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

Not talking about Israel..what does that have to do with...anything?


It's responses like this that make me wonder. I'm going to bow out of this thread for the better. :sarcastic:
 
M564038
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: US military

Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:19 pm

Please explain.
Btw. I have visited the Gaza strip. I know peopled held captured without liberty and freedom by the Israeli army since their birth. Yes. Let’s talk about hero worship of the Israeli army! Come on, man!

NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Not talking about Israel..what does that have to do with...anything?


It's responses like this that make me wonder. I'm going to bow out of this thread for the better. :sarcastic:
 
BN747
Posts: 8083
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: US military

Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:29 pm

stratosphere wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
The word Hero gets thrown around to much in the US for military personal as well.


Uh huh...and guess who thought that up without ever thinking through the harmful consequences such as 'cheapening' the very term itself?


BN747


Yeah you mean like "racist? That's a term that has been thrown around enough to have cheapened it that's for sure.


You're tired of hearing the term because you have a problem recognizing it's factual existence and you dismiss it's centuries old trail of damage...you're not alone.
Most people who've never been on the stinging end of it, never will understand it, especially if they don't care.

What parallels in harm and damage to society is 'sexism', usually people who have a difficult time grasping racism also fall short here as well...until their sister, wife or mother encounters an intentional offensive act against them. Walk around in drag for a day...and watch the kind of puerile ignorance they deal with daily, then you'll get it.
Racism 'black' experiement? Don't do it..it could go wrong a 100 different ways of none you're current attitude will prepare you for.


stratosphere wrote:
If I was a young person having children today I would never recommend joining the armed forces. Not because it is not a noble worthwhile career path (I come from a military family) but because our politicians and the military industrial complex sticks our nose into too many others business. Too many conflicts and regime change attempts at the expense of our young people. One George W Bush and Dick Chaney come to mind they should be tried and sent to prison as war criminals. We get into conflict and do not do what we need to win. No one really wins a war but really the only one we can claim is probably WW2. Every other war or conflict we have not fought to win. Too many rules of engagement that tie the hands of our servicemen. So we spill a lot of blood and treasure and in the end get nothing for it.


I still can recall my own anger at Bush/Cheney fro what they did. I remember trying to talk my brother out deploying in Iraq 1, but he stood firm saying his squad needed him.

But largely, You miss the point of American Might.

I've made this point before, the world will follow the lead of a Super Power, take your pick, Russia, China, India or America.

I prefer American leadership even with all of America's faults.
But America is the only one of the above dealing with multiculturalism, racism, sexism, whatever-sex choice one makes, rights of women, etc...none of the others are committed to that kind of justice and respect for all citizens. None.
America is the only one with a political platform that gives the masses some 'input' in the nation's direction - it's Electoral Process.
America is the only nation in a position to impress it's will...sadly corporations, Halliburton et al has taken the American tools (military) to force it's will (imho, that's criminal needs to be addressed).
Unfortunately, there are so many moving parts among other nations where most of the public is completely unaware of unseen threats - and will never know, unless it's too late.
Just one example, on Amazon Prime is tv series called The Family Man, a brilliant (excellent production quality) Indian produced series that looks like it came from the producers of the old tv show 24 with Kiefer Sutherland.
My point is, a program like this, (it's among Indian Intel Ops out of Mumbai on the trail of Sri Lankan terrorist out to set off political instability) will stun viewers as they realize how global stability, fragile and flimsy can unravel in a hearbeat ..and I do mean with dire global consequences.

I like to thing I'm aware of a lot of shit, but I'm thoroughly convinced I am not., Few people are and fewer people can keep track if possible.
This is what security services are so secretive, they have no choice.

Sometimes, America has no choice. (esp. when we cannot see all the moving political parts).

BN747

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