Vintage wrote:

Newark727 wrote:

Okay. Who steps into the power vacuum and how is it not the same people buying protection and access to expenditures right now?

In total anarchy everybody gets along fine. The good guys always have all the power, society becomes very virtuous; only lazy people go hungry.


/s

Sarcasm noted, but it genuinely makes me think if the lack of acknowledgment of what the government keeps together on a daily basis, and the huge increase in younger people that identify as "libertarian," if we're just getting another knock-on effect of technology. We see people treating people in public spaces as "NPCs," I think a lot of people are delusional and feel like life is a video game. They just can't wait for the civil war, because it will be just like COD and they're great at COD.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Vintage wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Pay attention, politicians of EITHER party are given money for protection from government regulation. The administrative state, that is, the Executive branch, promulgates in the Federal Register laws everyday. Campaign money buys protection from regulation or buys access to expenditures regardless of party affiliation. If anyone thinks the government, run by either party, is “on their side”; they’re a fool. Stop giving those 537 idiots money and power.

You're presenting the exception as if it were the rule. Sure such things do happen, but comparable things happen in private business too.

You leave the impression that you would prefer total anarchy. Is this true?

No, not anarchy, but less government than now and certainly one incentivized to be competent. The USG needs to less, more competently. It’s too big, too involved in business, but mostly TOO INCOMPETENT. Politicians are in it for themselves, basic public choice economics.

The incompetence of the US government is by design.

There is too much money in politics that basically every major corporation and foreign nations (Israel, Saudi Arabia, Ukraine etc.) have their hands in the trough and all want their cut. Therefore congress has no incentive to be efficient as they need their fundraising dollars. Right now politicians do what their donors want and not what their voters do. If congress actually listed to what voters wanted the US would look a lot more like European nations and we see this whenever there are ballot initiatives that people can vote one. A given state will vote for the GOP but will vote to legalize pot and for a $15 minimum wage.

The US needs campaign finance reform before you can even look at cleaning up the government because the money is the cancer. I can actually see SBF avoiding jail because of how much he donated to the democrats and who is in power at the moment. There will be a deal coming I bet and if he gets jail its going to be some piss poor sentence like 5 years and out in 2 because of good behaviour

StarAC17 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Vintage wrote:

You're presenting the exception as if it were the rule. Sure such things do happen, but comparable things happen in private business too.

You leave the impression that you would prefer total anarchy. Is this true?

No, not anarchy, but less government than now and certainly one incentivized to be competent. The USG needs to less, more competently. It’s too big, too involved in business, but mostly TOO INCOMPETENT. Politicians are in it for themselves, basic public choice economics.

The incompetence of the US government is by design.

There is too much money in politics that basically every major corporation and foreign nations (Israel, Saudi Arabia, Ukraine etc.) have their hands in the trough and all want their cut. Therefore congress has no incentive to be efficient as they need their fundraising dollars. Right now politicians do what their donors want and not what their voters do. If congress actually listed to what voters wanted the US would look a lot more like European nations and we see this whenever there are ballot initiatives that people can vote one. A given state will vote for the GOP but will vote to legalize pot and for a $15 minimum wage.

The US needs campaign finance reform before you can even look at cleaning up the government because the money is the cancer. I can actually see SBF avoiding jail because of how much he donated to the democrats and who is in power at the moment. There will be a deal coming I bet and if he gets jail its going to be some piss poor sentence like 5 years and out in 2 because of good behaviour

Hardly ever agree with you but this is true. US campaign will never be reformed because they all benefit from the status quo. Same with immigration reform. Doesn't matter what posture either party takes on it they both benefit from it in it's current form. Our politicians want to talk about corruption in other countries when it is rampant in our own country.

I saw a good quote several years ago--When people run for office, they SAY what the voters want to hear. Once they're elected, they DO what the big money donors tell them to.

StarAC17 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Vintage wrote:

You're presenting the exception as if it were the rule. Sure such things do happen, but comparable things happen in private business too.

You leave the impression that you would prefer total anarchy. Is this true?

No, not anarchy, but less government than now and certainly one incentivized to be competent. The USG needs to less, more competently. It’s too big, too involved in business, but mostly TOO INCOMPETENT. Politicians are in it for themselves, basic public choice economics.

The incompetence of the US government is by design.

There is too much money in politics that basically every major corporation and foreign nations (Israel, Saudi Arabia, Ukraine etc.) have their hands in the trough and all want their cut. Therefore congress has no incentive to be efficient as they need their fundraising dollars. Right now politicians do what their donors want and not what their voters do. If congress actually listed to what voters wanted the US would look a lot more like European nations and we see this whenever there are ballot initiatives that people can vote one. A given state will vote for the GOP but will vote to legalize pot and for a $15 minimum wage.

The US needs campaign finance reform before you can even look at cleaning up the government because the money is the cancer. I can actually see SBF avoiding jail because of how much he donated to the democrats and who is in power at the moment. There will be a deal coming I bet and if he gets jail its going to be some piss poor sentence like 5 years and out in 2 because of good behaviour

Money is in politics because politicians have something to sell—mostly access and influence on the administrative state in the Executive Branch. If your a corporation or HNWI, you are subject to a vast myriad of administrative laws, all of which are pretty much outside of the courts. Who you gonna call when an SES or GS-15 ALJ comes down on you hard—your Congressman, who might be able to fix it. Or change the law. Why do you so many contribute to BOTH parties—they need to.

Take away the Administrative State’s power, or more reasonably trim its sails, make administrative law subject to Congressional review, make Congress do its job and pass detailed laws rather than hand power to the Executive as was the system was designed and we’d get money used more productively in the private sector.

This didn't set off alarm bells with investors?

https://youtube.com/shorts/BVjZsLafkz8?feature=share

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Money is in politics because politicians have something to sell—mostly access and influence on the administrative state in the Executive Branch. If your a corporation or HNWI, you are subject to a vast myriad of administrative laws, all of which are pretty much outside of the courts. Who you gonna call when an SES or GS-15 ALJ comes down on you hard—your Congressman, who might be able to fix it. Or change the law. Why do you so many contribute to BOTH parties—they need to.

Take away the Administrative State’s power, or more reasonably trim its sails, make administrative law subject to Congressional review, make Congress do its job and pass detailed laws rather than hand power to the Executive as was the system was designed and we’d get money used more productively in the private sector.

I see where you are getting at but I couldn't disagree more. The average small to medium size business owner is subject to what you say because while they might do well for themselves they don't have the clout to actually influence lawmakers. Big corporations and donors can give politicians who control regulators to look the other way which is why I think this FTX guy will get a slap on the wrist and not the 25 years he deserves. If you keep money in politics you get what you pay for.

Not to say its perfect anywhere else but if you look at France as an example the services and benefits that the average French citizen gets compared to the average American its much different. France has high voting levels (around 80%), a living wage for all, much more liberal drug policy, affordable education, the best health care system on the planet, strong labour laws etc. French people are among the healthiest people on the planet.

If you look at polls for any of these issues they pool highly even among staunch conservatives.

There are public elections where the people are afraid of their citizens, American politicians are afraid of their donors. If 80% of Americans voted the US (they don't because they are cynical) would be a vastly different place.

889091 wrote:

This didn't set off alarm bells with investors?

https://youtube.com/shorts/BVjZsLafkz8?feature=share

How many drugs has this woman done, she sounds as high as a kite. At 25 or so she should be much more on the ball in terms of her speech.

I think most institutional investors knew this crypto thing was nonsense anyways so they don't pay it any heed. My cousin is an Investment Advisor at an major Canadian bank and when his clients go to him to buy crypto he says one of two things.
- There is the door
- What do you want sold

There have been some celebrities and the CNBC pundit class that lost money on FTX (you could have a small fortune betting against Jim Cramer). I don't cry for either.

I find most people who go for crypto want a get rich quick scheme. In reality investing is like getting in shape, there is no quick fix. It takes years if not decades of discipline to actually see investing work long term. All you need to really do is invest in index or dividend paying mutual funds or ETF's and pay yourself first, its not overly complicated.

889091 wrote:

This didn't set off alarm bells with investors?

https://youtube.com/shorts/BVjZsLafkz8?feature=share

The constant giggling is a dead give away.

Well, apparently SBF was just arrested: https://abcnews.go.com/US/sam-bankman-f ... d=95105184

SumChristianus wrote:

Well, apparently SBF was just arrested: https://abcnews.go.com/US/sam-bankman-f ... d=95105184

Wow never thought I would see him in the US again. This should be entertaining.

Isn't knowing which countries don't have extradition treaties with the United States like, the first thing you're supposed to know as a white-collar criminal?

SumChristianus wrote:

Well, apparently SBF was just arrested: https://abcnews.go.com/US/sam-bankman-f ... d=95105184

He isn't that much more articulate and intelligent sounding than Ellison.

Newark727 wrote:

Isn't knowing which countries don't have extradition treaties with the United States like, the first thing you're supposed to know as a white-collar criminal?

Should have fled to Hong Kong with his "girlfriend" Ellison. That would be some fun as between HKGov, who obviously want to be all wolf warrior nowaday, and USGov.

I don't know...maybe SBF is really THAT dumb and not smart enough to be a con-man?

Newark727 wrote:

Isn't knowing which countries don't have extradition treaties with the United States like, the first thing you're supposed to know as a white-collar criminal?

The question is will he get bail because he is a flight risk.

Yeah, I'm gonna vote 'guilty'.....

FTX’s inner circle had a secret chat group called ‘Wirefraud’

Members of the inner circle of power at collapsed cryptocurrency exchange FTX formed a chat group called “Wirefraud” and were using it to send secret information about operations in the lead up to the company’s spectacular failure.

On the eve of the first big hearing in the US Congress this week that will investigate FTX’s collapse, The Australian Financial Review has learnt that FTX founders Sam Bankman-Fried and Zixiao “Gary” Wang, along with FTX engineer Nishad Singh and former Alameda Research chief executive Caroline Ellison, used a chat group on Signal in the hope that the information would remain hidden.

https://www.afr.com/companies/financial ... 213-p5c5sx

https://archive.vn/cw8Ma

I could watch this all day!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu6ZElMpZrU

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Arrest the Alameda girl.

I'm surprised that they didn't do a coordinated arrest of all of the principals at the same time.

zkojq wrote:

Yeah, I'm gonna vote 'guilty'.....

FTX’s inner circle had a secret chat group called ‘Wirefraud’

Members of the inner circle of power at collapsed cryptocurrency exchange FTX formed a chat group called “Wirefraud” and were using it to send secret information about operations in the lead up to the company’s spectacular failure.

On the eve of the first big hearing in the US Congress this week that will investigate FTX’s collapse, The Australian Financial Review has learnt that FTX founders Sam Bankman-Fried and Zixiao “Gary” Wang, along with FTX engineer Nishad Singh and former Alameda Research chief executive Caroline Ellison, used a chat group on Signal in the hope that the information would remain hidden.

https://www.afr.com/companies/financial ... 213-p5c5sx

https://archive.vn/cw8Ma

This reminds me very much of the guy who ran Silk Road, one of the first websites to accept cryptocurrency. Was sort of a free-for-all market where you could buy illegal drugs and stolen credit cards and stuff. Anyway, when the FBI busted him, they found his diary on his laptop, which was of course named "mycrimes.txt."

I think something about crypto might just rot your brain...

johns624 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Arrest the Alameda girl.

I'm surprised that they didn't do a coordinated arrest of all of the principals at the same time.

They are going to flip her for info on him. They don't want her, they want SBF.

Sam Bankman-Fried Denied Bail by Judge in the Bahamas

SBF, 30, protested, telling Chief Magistrate Joyann Ferguson-Pratt he couldn’t go to jail because he is vegan and ‘depressed.’

She however denied him bail, remanding him in custody until February 8. He will spend his detention at Fox Hill, The Bahamas’ only prison. The jail is known for overcrowding and unsanitary conditions.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... LLION.html

Maybe he won't fight his extradition if he can get out of that over-crowded jail.

NIKV69 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Arrest the Alameda girl.

I'm surprised that they didn't do a coordinated arrest of all of the principals at the same time.

They are going to flip her for info on him. They don't want her, they want SBF.

she be like, "1 year plus 1 year equals 1 year. OK. Deal!"...

Interestingly crypto-coins Bitcoin and Ethereum have both gone up generally since the arrest announcement per Barron's, the opposite of what I would have expected (i.e. fears over this all being a scam prompt people to pull out)

https://www.barrons.com/articles/oil-pr ... 1670924073
(Don't have access to the full article, just the price summary)

Any idea why?

Newark727 wrote:

I think something about crypto might just rot your brain...

Maybe it generally makes you think you're above all rules and regulation, because in a way with crypto, if you run it, you are the regulator (from a bit of research I've been doing over the past month on all this)

Balaji Srivinasan, a crypto-investor/tech founder who's been making the podcast rounds over the last year around his new book The Network State said this which seems relevant: https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1454027585281662978

Crypto makes progressives more libertarian and libertarians more progressive.

Progressives discover that you can build stateless money. Libertarians discover that you then need to rebuild something much like a state: identity, reputation, anti-fraud, custody, trust, community…

For me (generally leaning more libertarian, its an important reminder that there's a reason states, or at least some type of trusted system exists, even if no one system is completely trustworthy.

He also tweeted today on the situation, claiming that it was only public outcry, like Coffeezilla's investigation of SBF, that led to yesterday's action:
https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1602534896442159104

Obviously, without the massive outcry, they would have let him continue his Good Morning America tour.

That’s why SBF skated for more than a month after stealing billions.

Only public protest forced arrest.

Have any of you listened to Lex Fridman's podcast interview with Coffeezilla about SBF and FTX?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi9Rf0oLdHk

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Sam Bankman-Fried Denied Bail by Judge in the Bahamas

SBF, 30, protested, telling Chief Magistrate Joyann Ferguson-Pratt he couldn’t go to jail because he is vegan and ‘depressed.’

She however denied him bail, remanding him in custody until February 8. He will spend his detention at Fox Hill, The Bahamas’ only prison. The jail is known for overcrowding and unsanitary conditions.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... LLION.html

Maybe he won't fight his extradition if he can get out of that over-crowded jail.

Good deal. LOL no more sleeping on bean bags.

Exclusive: How a secret software change allowed FTX to use client money

In congressional testimony on May 12, Bankman-Fried called FTX’s software “safe, tested and conservative.”

“By quickly unwinding the riskiest, most undercollateralized positions, the risk engine prevents build-up of credit risk that could otherwise cascade beyond the platform, resulting in contagion,” Bankman-Fried testified.

He did not tell lawmakers about the software change to exempt Alameda. Indeed, he told investors that Alameda received no preferential treatment from FTX, the SEC complaint said.

Bankman-Fried had directed subordinates to update the software in mid-2020 to enable Alameda to maintain a negative balance on its account, the SEC complaint said. No other customer account at Alameda was allowed to do so, the complaint added. This would allow Alameda to keep borrowing more FTX funds without the need to provide more collateral.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/how- ... 022-12-13/

This is really damning.

NIKV69 wrote:

I could watch this all day!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu6ZElMpZrU

Try watching this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hue46YwRvSc

Makes you wonder about these 'brilliant' venture capitalists.

Too bad for SBF, the Fed cameras won't be repaired before his (short??) US Prison stint.

https://apnews.com/article/biden-politi ... ee77967c7d

Congress OKs bill forcing feds to fix broken prison cameras

The agency must submit a report to Congress within three months detailing deficiencies and a plan to make needed upgrades. Those upgrades are required within three years and the bureau must submit annual progress reports to lawmakers.

FTX’s Gary Wang, Alameda’s Caroline Ellison plead guilty to federal charges, cooperating with prosecutors

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/22/ftxs-ga ... utors.html

https://twitter.com/SDNYnews/status/1605745361842327552

DIRECTFLT wrote:

FTX’s Gary Wang, Alameda’s Caroline Ellison plead guilty to federal charges, cooperating with prosecutors

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/22/ftxs-ga ... utors.html

https://twitter.com/SDNYnews/status/1605745361842327552

Not a shock, SBF wheels down at Westchester airport. Looked like Gulfstream no markings.

Ellison's plea agreement has been unsealed

https://s3.documentcloud.org/docume...e ... e-case.pdf

She must be ready to sing like a bird because this is a very friendly plea agreement for her. $250,000 bail, her surrender of travel documents and a forfeiture of assets. Basically a waiving of charges except for criminal tax violations if she fully cooperates.

The agreement states that if Ellison fully cooperates with the SDNY's investigation, as well as any other law enforcement agency designated by the office, she won't be further prosecuted criminally except for possible criminal tax violations with regard to the wire and commodity fraud charges that resulted from commingling funds between FTX and Alameda accounts.

That is a bad precedent to set. I could see offering that deal to a much lower level participant but she and the other employee need to spend some time in prison.

Otherwise, you could be the number 2, live large and then turn on the boss and skate with no less than what you started the game with. Recent college grad with not much.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

That is a bad precedent to set. I could see offering that deal to a much lower level participant but she and the other employee need to spend some time in prison.

Otherwise, you could be the number 2, live large and then turn on the boss and skate with no less than what you started the game with. Recent college grad with not much.

The precedent has already been set a long time ago. I am surprised she didn't get full immunity from any prosecution. If she asked she probably would have got it.

NIKV69 wrote:

I could watch this all day!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu6ZElMpZrU

As a Canadian who has seen this guy run his mouth for 15 years. He is not necessarily who you want to invest with as his funds aren't really that competitive. His acumen in investing leaves a lot to be desired. He probably won't be losing all your money with him but you would be better off with an index fund.

He is very much a rich guy that made it big in one thing and feels he can do another just as easily. As much richer Elon Musk is figuring out, the skills to run Tesla and SpaceX don't necessarily translate to Twitter. He also wanted to run for Prime Minster of Canada in 2015.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/inside ... adventure/

He made his money with a company called the Learning Company in the late 1990's which he hit it big in 1999 when Mattel bought the company, just before the tech bubble burst. This was a tech/computer venture and not personal investment and mutual funds. He did that after he got rich and he is entertaining on Shark Tank or the Canadian version called Dragon's Den. However if you watch him on Shark Tank you can see that Mark Cuban can wipe the floor with him when it comes to business.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_O%27Leary

If you want to make money, bet against CNBC.

Interesting article that covers the history of O'Leary's involvement with the The Learning Company and it's sale to Mattel.
"Shark Tank's "Mr. Wonderful" helped kill the educational computer games industry" https://www.avclub.com/shark-tanks-mr-w ... 1829339516

"In 1998, O’Leary would sell The Learning Company to a foundering Mattel for $3.5 billion in a move that would nearly sink the toy giant. By that point TLC was little more than a collection of old, hopelessly out-of-date properties, with little to nothing being reinvested back into the creation of new games. A year and a half later Mattel would turn around to sell The Learning Company for a catastrophic $27 million."

How do you secure a $250 Million bail with your house? It must've only been 1% down.

StarAC17 wrote:

As a Canadian who has seen this guy run his mouth for 15 years. He is not necessarily who you want to invest with as his funds aren't really that competitive. His acumen in investing leaves a lot to be desired. He probably won't be losing all your money with him but you would be better off with an index fund.

He is very much a rich guy that made it big in one thing and feels he can do another just as easily. As much richer Elon Musk is figuring out, the skills to run Tesla and SpaceX don't necessarily translate to Twitter. He also wanted to run for Prime Minster of Canada in 2015.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/inside ... adventure/

He made his money with a company called the Learning Company in the late 1990's which he hit it big in 1999 when Mattel bought the company, just before the tech bubble burst. This was a tech/computer venture and not personal investment and mutual funds. He did that after he got rich and he is entertaining on Shark Tank or the Canadian version called Dragon's Den. However if you watch him on Shark Tank you can see that Mark Cuban can wipe the floor with him when it comes to business.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_O%27Leary

If you want to make money, bet against CNBC.

Oh I know every talking head on CNBC was wrong on this one and it's no suprise they are fools who just look to anyone for a story Elizabth Holmes is a perfect example.

johns624 wrote:

How do you secure a $250 Million bail with your house? It must've only been 1% down.

I am shocked he got bail. They better watch him closely and not rely on the ankle thing. He has a plan to flee.

NIKV69 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

How do you secure a $250 Million bail with your house? It must've only been 1% down.

I am shocked he got bail. They better watch him closely and not rely on the ankle thing. He has a plan to flee.

I agree. They don't know where all the money is and he thinks that he's smarter than everyone else. He'll leave mommy and daddy in the lurch while be bribes a shady bizjet pilot to fly him somewhere warm and untouchable.

NIKV69 wrote:

Oh I know every talking head on CNBC was wrong on this one and it's no suprise they are fools who just look to anyone for a story Elizabth Holmes is a perfect example.

Not just on Crypto. Jim Cramer was bullish on Meta and had to apologize when that dropped.

He was riddled in the media for that call

johns624 wrote:

How do you secure a $250 Million bail with your house? It must've only been 1% down.

Sam Bankman-Fried puts up -0- dollars for his bail set at $250 Million.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Ellison's plea agreement has been unsealed

Correct pdf link:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... e-case.pdf

DIRECTFLT wrote:

FTX’s Gary Wang, Alameda’s Caroline Ellison plead guilty to federal charges, cooperating with prosecutors

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/22/ftxs-ga ... utors.html

https://twitter.com/SDNYnews/status/1605745361842327552

About the earlier revelations I was going to comment that his formers employees/colleagues/partners in crime/lovers were definitely ratting on him, it's confirmed then.

StarAC17 wrote:

Not just on Crypto. Jim Cramer was bullish on Meta and had to apologize when that dropped.

He was riddled in the media for that call

As he should be. He is just another Louis Rukeyser. Nice suit and a time slot but I wouldn't trust their stock advice.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Sam Bankman-Fried puts up -0- dollars for his bail set at $250 Million.

Well if he is down to 100k in his bank acct and his parents aren't multi millionaires. Someone put up some money.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

That is a bad precedent to set. I could see offering that deal to a much lower level participant but she and the other employee need to spend some time in prison.

Otherwise, you could be the number 2, live large and then turn on the boss and skate with no less than what you started the game with. Recent college grad with not much.

Yeah I don't like that either. And on the opposite side I also disagree with stuff like 150 years in jail sentences for fraud, no matter the amount. They should all get a jail term then have to give a portion of their earnings for the rest of their lives to victims, something like that.

NIKV69 wrote:

Sam Bankman-Fried puts up -0- dollars for his bail set at $250 Million.

Well if he is down to 100k in his bank acct and his parents aren't multi millionaires. Someone put up some money.[/quote]


So basically, he got out of jail for free. There's some money hidden somewhere offshore.

Aesma wrote:

MohawkWeekend wrote:

That is a bad precedent to set. I could see offering that deal to a much lower level participant but she and the other employee need to spend some time in prison.

Otherwise, you could be the number 2, live large and then turn on the boss and skate with no less than what you started the game with. Recent college grad with not much.

Yeah I don't like that either. And on the opposite side I also disagree with stuff like 150 years in jail sentences for fraud, no matter the amount. They should all get a jail term then have to give a portion of their earnings for the rest of their lives to victims, something like that.

Let him rot. I've never understood this rationale. A person could lose their job, go through their savings and in an act of desperation, rob a 7-11 of $100 and go away for years while a white collar criminal can steal millions and get away with a slap on the wrist. Who did more damage to society?

Armed robbery does take it to a higher level.
That being said I'm all for building special low security prisons for tax cheats (including one famous one) and white collar criminals. Would cost way less to run and operate. But their freedom needs to be taken away for at several years to act as a deterrent.

Take off one week of the sentence for every pint of blood they donate!

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Armed robbery does take it to a higher level.

How so? Armed robberies affect a couple of people. Bank fraud can affect millions. One is sometimes done in desperation. The other is done for greed. I think that's much worse. Just because force isn't used, doesn't make it "better". In fact, using your position or influence to scam people makes it worse.
Financial people, just like lawyers, priests and law enforcement, should be held to a higher standard.

johns624 wrote:

So basically, he got out of jail for free. There's some money hidden somewhere offshore.

I would love to know who fronted the money.

NIKV69 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

So basically, he got out of jail for free. There's some money hidden somewhere offshore.

I would love to know who fronted the money.

I think the point is, is that there were $0 dollars paid.