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hh65man
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Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 10:03 am

Interesting read on the decline of our Sun and solar system, fascinating to read, wonder if mankind will make it off this planet. Strewth, it’s getting hot….

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists ... to-be-epic
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 10:14 am

hh65man wrote:
Interesting read on the decline of our Sun and solar system, fascinating to read, wonder if mankind will make it off this planet. Strewth, it’s getting hot….

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists ... to-be-epic


Ever watched 'Cosmos'? There have already been several mass extinctions since life appeared on Earth...and some ecologists and biologists think we are in the early stages of a sixth.

https://www.worldwildlife.org/stories/w ... o-about-it

There is no logical reason to assume our species will still be here in 10 billion years when the Sun begins to die.
 
hh65man
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:22 am

Aaron747 wrote:
hh65man wrote:
Interesting read on the decline of our Sun and solar system, fascinating to read, wonder if mankind will make it off this planet. Strewth, it’s getting hot….

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists ... to-be-epic


Ever watched 'Cosmos'? There have already been several mass extinctions since life appeared on Earth...and some ecologists and biologists think we are in the early stages of a sixth.

https://www.worldwildlife.org/stories/w ... o-about-it

There is no logical reason to assume our species will still be here in 10 billion years when the Sun begins to die.


So true, especially at the rate we’re going, far more likely to be taken out by a asteroid long before the time comes. Life will start all over without us. Now off to go lookup Cosmos, as a average carbon life form treading this planet time to go and exercise some grey matter. Thanks for the tip.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:49 am

Aaron747 wrote:
There is no logical reason to assume our species will still be here in 10 billion years when the Sun begins to die.

Our species has existed for less than a million years. A thousand years is a long time for any civilization.

There's not even good reason to assume humans, or any sentient lifeform for that matter, will still be here in 10 million years.

On the upside, any long-term environmental damage isn't going to be our problem.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:55 am

mxaxai wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
There is no logical reason to assume our species will still be here in 10 billion years when the Sun begins to die.

Our species has existed for less than a million years. A thousand years is a long time for any civilization.

There's not even good reason to assume humans, or any sentient lifeform for that matter, will still be here in 10 million years.

On the upside, any long-term environmental damage isn't going to be our problem.


Our species, around 200,000years, and of those 200,000years, only 10,000years of what we call civilization. Given that Cleopatra is closer to our times than to the building of the great pyramids, we need to be very humble.

Let's first survive the next 1.000years as a species and then we might talk in millions of years. The first thing will be hard enough given our current path of 'development'.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:38 pm

The demographic transition has pretty well occurred over all the world except for African (north and south). It is hard to state how perilous ultra-growing populations there compounded by expected global climate changes. Excuse this term, the First World is undoubtedly the cause of most of that climate change, so we bear some responsibility, but cannot do it without help from the Second and Third World. Population control is essential. Ehrlich and Malthus are not wrong, they pose the problem, there are solutions.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:21 pm

I think by then there will be trillions of humans across the galaxy/universe but I might be wrong.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:35 pm

We have certainly managed to do some of the most terrible damage to the enviroment in just the last 200yrs, does not bode well.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:52 pm

Ehrilch lost the bet, Malthus was wrong, too.
 
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seb146
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:01 pm

I, personally, believe that there is life on other planets, because of evolution they are not all carbon based.

What is the gravitational pull of dying stars? I wonder what our orbit will be when our Sun becomes a red dwarf? Where will objects from the Kuiper Belt end up?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:32 pm

Even apart from technological innovation... does evolution see life on this planet ? Homo sapiens appeared just 300,000 years ago
 
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ER757
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:47 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
hh65man wrote:
Interesting read on the decline of our Sun and solar system, fascinating to read, wonder if mankind will make it off this planet. Strewth, it’s getting hot….

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists ... to-be-epic


Ever watched 'Cosmos'? There have already been several mass extinctions since life appeared on Earth...and some ecologists and biologists think we are in the early stages of a sixth.

https://www.worldwildlife.org/stories/w ... o-about-it

There is no logical reason to assume our species will still be here in 10 billion years when the Sun begins to die.

Ten billion? Phew, I thought I read it as 10 million and got nervous :lol:
 
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Tugger
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:39 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Population control is essential.

Population control is total BS and useless. Population ebbs and flows and changes over time but it's growth drives innovation and a need to "do something". If we go to space, move off earth, it will be because of populations increases have made it possible and necessary.

Tugg
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:11 pm

Does anyone really think that countries with more population than they can feed, and fewer jobs to offer would be worse off, women who are able to be part of the work force (without the exhaustion of looking after 4-8 kids) would be worse off the a kid or two less?
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:17 pm

Unpopular opinion: the end of life on Earth will happen way, way before anything goes wrong with our Sun.
 
T54A
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:21 pm

It is estimated the human population number has peaked, or is about to peak. It’s downhill for us from here. Better for the rest of the planet though.
 
BN747
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:24 pm

Aesma wrote:
I think by then there will be trillions of humans across the galaxy/universe but I might be wrong.


Probably already is...

We've all read how our Sun, is an average sized star, of which there are trillions upon trillions among so many galaxies, Fermi Paradox, aside, this Universe dictates
which star types will create off spring planets (some est, 21.6 sextillion - 21.600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 worlds conservatively estimated in the observable Universe.
The other Suns had as much right to sprout organic beings just as this one. Earth viewpoints, Earth perspectives arrogantly place us above and ahead all else, although we've
seen the galaxies now...somehow, we're still #1.

Add to that, the recent findings that Super Earths (20%+ larger in size) revolving around Dwarf Stars are suspected to be more hospitable to 'our life' than this infinitesimally small rock.

But for this species, achieving Type 1 on the Kardashev Scale is 'goal #1'...guys like Putin or religious nuts determined seeing Armaggeddon are the only impediments.


But yeah, Cosmos takes it next level.

BN747
 
BN747
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:59 am

Then there's recent 'Great Filter Theory'...

Avoiding the “Great Filter”: Extraterrestrial Life and Humanity’s Future in the Universe

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2210/2210.10582.pdf

It is a pdf, I have my doubts about this but I'll re-read.

BN747
 
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casinterest
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:35 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD4izuDMUQA

Good video on thee end of the universe. 30 minutes long.
Earth is gone by 3:20

We have 500 million years +- to get off the earth. I would say there is a good chance of that happening. within 10,000 years, I would imagine there will be ships traversing the stars. Maybe not at the speed of light, but rather quickly.
 
StarAC17
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:36 pm

hh65man wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
hh65man wrote:
Interesting read on the decline of our Sun and solar system, fascinating to read, wonder if mankind will make it off this planet. Strewth, it’s getting hot….

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists ... to-be-epic


Ever watched 'Cosmos'? There have already been several mass extinctions since life appeared on Earth...and some ecologists and biologists think we are in the early stages of a sixth.

https://www.worldwildlife.org/stories/w ... o-about-it

There is no logical reason to assume our species will still be here in 10 billion years when the Sun begins to die.


So true, especially at the rate we’re going, far more likely to be taken out by a asteroid long before the time comes. Life will start all over without us. Now off to go lookup Cosmos, as a average carbon life form treading this planet time to go and exercise some grey matter. Thanks for the tip.


As said, we are likely to be taken out by a mass extinction event (provided we aren't in one) in tens of millions of years not get even close to the 100 million year point of existence. One thing that is common throughout these events is that the dominant creatures perish and the small inconspicuous ones survive and evolve from the events. The dominance of mammals is directly caused from the KT asteroid event 66 million years ago wiping out land based dinosaurs and other reptiles at the time. That wasn't even bad in terms of ELE events. The great dying that happened 252 million years ago takes the cake of the biggest one which led to the dinosaurs asserting dominance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F_RcM9EY4E

Cosmos is awesome. Neil Degrasse Tyson, Ann Druyan and Seth McFarlane do an amazing job in the two seasons. Start with the 2014 season, I have yet to sit down and watch the second that came out in 2020. I think these are available on Disney +.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:23 pm

casinterest wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD4izuDMUQA

Good video on thee end of the universe. 30 minutes long.
Earth is gone by 3:20

We have 500 million years +- to get off the earth. I would say there is a good chance of that happening. within 10,000 years, I would imagine there will be ships traversing the stars. Maybe not at the speed of light, but rather quickly.


About transportation… unless we discover ways to travel faster than light, transportation will be all about cryo hibernation. For thousands of years. A typical human might live 100,000 years in that scenario. Or maybe we will have treatments to extend our natural life. We might wake up for 1 week every 10-50 years or something like that, then go back to sleep. So 1 year of life could be 2500 actual years. I think this is much more currently feasible than travel faster than light. but it may not be all that useful.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:50 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
casinterest wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD4izuDMUQA

Good video on thee end of the universe. 30 minutes long.
Earth is gone by 3:20

We have 500 million years +- to get off the earth. I would say there is a good chance of that happening. within 10,000 years, I would imagine there will be ships traversing the stars. Maybe not at the speed of light, but rather quickly.


About transportation… unless we discover ways to travel faster than light, transportation will be all about cryo hibernation. For thousands of years. A typical human might live 100,000 years in that scenario. Or maybe we will have treatments to extend our natural life. We might wake up for 1 week every 10-50 years or something like that, then go back to sleep. So 1 year of life could be 2500 actual years. I think this is much more currently feasible than travel faster than light. but it may not be all that useful.



Perhaps, or maybe the ships will be so big that people live and die on the ships as the travel the cosmos.
All are possibilities .
 
StarAC17
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:09 pm

casinterest wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
casinterest wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD4izuDMUQA

Good video on thee end of the universe. 30 minutes long.
Earth is gone by 3:20

We have 500 million years +- to get off the earth. I would say there is a good chance of that happening. within 10,000 years, I would imagine there will be ships traversing the stars. Maybe not at the speed of light, but rather quickly.


About transportation… unless we discover ways to travel faster than light, transportation will be all about cryo hibernation. For thousands of years. A typical human might live 100,000 years in that scenario. Or maybe we will have treatments to extend our natural life. We might wake up for 1 week every 10-50 years or something like that, then go back to sleep. So 1 year of life could be 2500 actual years. I think this is much more currently feasible than travel faster than light. but it may not be all that useful.



Perhaps, or maybe the ships will be so big that people live and die on the ships as the travel the cosmos.
All are possibilities .


The living civilization is a real possibility. I don't think traveling faster than the speed of light is a physical possibility.

I think that will be attempted when we eventually try and go to Mars or establish some kind of colony on the moon which I would reckon has to be done first. . How much can we recycle and make the given resources self sustaining.

One problem with this is that any travel within our current solar system can rely on solar power from the sun but once out of the solar system its utter darkness. How do we manage a civilization when it will take years or even decades to get to the next solar system.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:14 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Unpopular opinion: the end of life on Earth will happen way, way before anything goes wrong with our Sun.


Life is tough. It would take some very significant dedication to make it disappear, something like puting gigantic engines on a large rock and send it on a collision course with Earth. Use the Moon, maybe.
 
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seb146
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:24 am

Aesma wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Unpopular opinion: the end of life on Earth will happen way, way before anything goes wrong with our Sun.


Life is tough. It would take some very significant dedication to make it disappear, something like puting gigantic engines on a large rock and send it on a collision course with Earth. Use the Moon, maybe.


Wasn't that the plot of a Minions movie?

Seriously, though, mass extinctions have happened. And they will continue to happen. Until the sun disappears. Circle of life and all that.
 
johns624
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:27 am

Aesma wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Unpopular opinion: the end of life on Earth will happen way, way before anything goes wrong with our Sun.


Life is tough. It would take some very significant dedication to make it disappear, something like puting gigantic engines on a large rock and send it on a collision course with Earth. Use the Moon, maybe.
Or just Putin and Russia getting really, really stupid!
 
Max Q
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:33 am

I guess I might as well max out my credit cards
 
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dampfnudel
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:20 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Unpopular opinion: the end of life on Earth will happen way, way before anything goes wrong with our Sun.

Given the current situation, your opinion may not be that unpopular.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:52 pm

johns624 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Unpopular opinion: the end of life on Earth will happen way, way before anything goes wrong with our Sun.


Life is tough. It would take some very significant dedication to make it disappear, something like puting gigantic engines on a large rock and send it on a collision course with Earth. Use the Moon, maybe.
Or just Putin and Russia getting really, really stupid!


No, that's my point. Humans might not survive, most animals might not survive, but plenty of living stuff would.
 
StarAC17
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:38 pm

johns624 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Unpopular opinion: the end of life on Earth will happen way, way before anything goes wrong with our Sun.


Life is tough. It would take some very significant dedication to make it disappear, something like puting gigantic engines on a large rock and send it on a collision course with Earth. Use the Moon, maybe.
Or just Putin and Russia getting really, really stupid!


Multicellular life has been on Earth from an estimated 600 million years ago to 2.1 billion years ago. The Earth is an estimated 4.6 billion years old and while unicellular life has been around for most of that time. Multicellular life is more of a recent evolution in the latter half or much later in Earth's history.

https://www.scienceabc.com/pure-science ... -life.html

https://www.ualberta.ca/science/news/20 ... ears%20ago.

To wipe out life we would need an event that either puts Earth in the situation of its nearest neighbors. Either a runaway Greenhouse effect like what has happened with Venus or we lose our Magnetic field and solar radiation evaporates that Atmosphere and the oceans which looks to be what happened with Mars.

A Nuclear fallout won't even be close to the mass extinctions of the past. If complex life can survive mass extinctions like the KT event, the great dying or the multiple supervolcanic eruptions and ice ages of the past I am not so concerned about a Nuclear fallout being Extinction level. It might kill us but not everything.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:25 pm

seb146 wrote:
I, personally, believe that there is life on other planets, because of evolution they are not all carbon based.

What is the gravitational pull of dying stars? I wonder what our orbit will be when our Sun becomes a red dwarf? Where will objects from the Kuiper Belt end up?



Our Sun will likely become a red giant and then a white dwarf. In the former it will have already enveloped Earth. Earth will no longer exist. Before that, the Sun will still be losing mass rather than gaining it, so the gravitational pull will be less rather than more. The Sun expands because less matter means less gravity keeping it compacted against the internal nuclear fusion which wants to expand it.

Wont be fun to be living on Earth in those times.
 
StarAC17
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:17 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I, personally, believe that there is life on other planets, because of evolution they are not all carbon based.

What is the gravitational pull of dying stars? I wonder what our orbit will be when our Sun becomes a red dwarf? Where will objects from the Kuiper Belt end up?



Our Sun will likely become a red giant and then a white dwarf. In the former it will have already enveloped Earth. Earth will no longer exist. Before that, the Sun will still be losing mass rather than gaining it, so the gravitational pull will be less rather than more. The Sun expands because less matter means less gravity keeping it compacted against the internal nuclear fusion which wants to expand it.

Wont be fun to be living on Earth in those times.


The atmosphere and all the water on earth (thus all life) will likely be long gone before the sun envelopes the Earth.
 
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seb146
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:14 am

So I am curious about something and this should probably be it's own thread:

The Earth, Venus, Mars, etc. revolve around the Sun and the Sun is moving also. I don't know around what or if it is just moving at a high rate. I saw an animation that looked like Earth (and the other planets) are doing a corkscrew maneuver around the Sun while the Sun is moving also. How are meteor showers possible? I mean, every year, the Leonids and Perseids are calculated to the same week but if everything is moving (Earth, Sun, galaxy) how can these things be calculated so exact?
 
bennett123
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:14 am

casinterest wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
casinterest wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD4izuDMUQA

Good video on thee end of the universe. 30 minutes long.
Earth is gone by 3:20

We have 500 million years +- to get off the earth. I would say there is a good chance of that happening. within 10,000 years, I would imagine there will be ships traversing the stars. Maybe not at the speed of light, but rather quickly.


About transportation… unless we discover ways to travel faster than light, transportation will be all about cryo hibernation. For thousands of years. A typical human might live 100,000 years in that scenario. Or maybe we will have treatments to extend our natural life. We might wake up for 1 week every 10-50 years or something like that, then go back to sleep. So 1 year of life could be 2500 actual years. I think this is much more currently feasible than travel faster than light. but it may not be all that useful.



Perhaps, or maybe the ships will be so big that people live and die on the ships as the travel the cosmos.
All are possibilities .


If you think of a cruise ship with a crew of perhaps 1,000 and 5-6,000 passengers you are thinking about a space ship the size of a small town.

Is that enough to ensure adequate genetic diversity?.
 
bennett123
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:20 am

StarAC17 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

About transportation… unless we discover ways to travel faster than light, transportation will be all about cryo hibernation. For thousands of years. A typical human might live 100,000 years in that scenario. Or maybe we will have treatments to extend our natural life. We might wake up for 1 week every 10-50 years or something like that, then go back to sleep. So 1 year of life could be 2500 actual years. I think this is much more currently feasible than travel faster than light. but it may not be all that useful.



Perhaps, or maybe the ships will be so big that people live and die on the ships as the travel the cosmos.
All are possibilities .


The living civilization is a real possibility. I don't think traveling faster than the speed of light is a physical possibility.

I think that will be attempted when we eventually try and go to Mars or establish some kind of colony on the moon which I would reckon has to be done first. . How much can we recycle and make the given resources self sustaining.

One problem with this is that any travel within our current solar system can rely on solar power from the sun but once out of the solar system its utter darkness. How do we manage a civilization when it will take years or even decades to get to the next solar system.


Assuming that travel at the speed of light is possible, my understanding is that deep space is essentially a vacuum.

Once at the speed of light, that speed would reduce very gradually.

A secondary power source would only need to counter that very slow deceleration.
 
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seb146
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:05 pm

bennett123 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


Perhaps, or maybe the ships will be so big that people live and die on the ships as the travel the cosmos.
All are possibilities .


The living civilization is a real possibility. I don't think traveling faster than the speed of light is a physical possibility.

I think that will be attempted when we eventually try and go to Mars or establish some kind of colony on the moon which I would reckon has to be done first. . How much can we recycle and make the given resources self sustaining.

One problem with this is that any travel within our current solar system can rely on solar power from the sun but once out of the solar system its utter darkness. How do we manage a civilization when it will take years or even decades to get to the next solar system.


Assuming that travel at the speed of light is possible, my understanding is that deep space is essentially a vacuum.

Once at the speed of light, that speed would reduce very gradually.

A secondary power source would only need to counter that very slow deceleration.


But if there is nothing pushing back, how could the speed reduce? At sea level, there is gravity and also air to slow an object. In the vacuum of space, there is nothing to offer resistance.
 
bennett123
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:44 pm

seb146 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:

The living civilization is a real possibility. I don't think traveling faster than the speed of light is a physical possibility.

I think that will be attempted when we eventually try and go to Mars or establish some kind of colony on the moon which I would reckon has to be done first. . How much can we recycle and make the given resources self sustaining.

One problem with this is that any travel within our current solar system can rely on solar power from the sun but once out of the solar system its utter darkness. How do we manage a civilization when it will take years or even decades to get to the next solar system.


Assuming that travel at the speed of light is possible, my understanding is that deep space is essentially a vacuum.

Once at the speed of light, that speed would reduce very gradually.

A secondary power source would only need to counter that very slow deceleration.


But if there is nothing pushing back, how could the speed reduce? At sea level, there is gravity and also air to slow an object. In the vacuum of space, there is nothing to offer resistance.


My understanding is that deep space is not a complete vacuum.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:42 pm

seb146 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:

The living civilization is a real possibility. I don't think traveling faster than the speed of light is a physical possibility.

I think that will be attempted when we eventually try and go to Mars or establish some kind of colony on the moon which I would reckon has to be done first. . How much can we recycle and make the given resources self sustaining.

One problem with this is that any travel within our current solar system can rely on solar power from the sun but once out of the solar system its utter darkness. How do we manage a civilization when it will take years or even decades to get to the next solar system.


Assuming that travel at the speed of light is possible, my understanding is that deep space is essentially a vacuum.

Once at the speed of light, that speed would reduce very gradually.

A secondary power source would only need to counter that very slow deceleration.


But if there is nothing pushing back, how could the speed reduce? At sea level, there is gravity and also air to slow an object. In the vacuum of space, there is nothing to offer resistance.


There would be space dust inpacts that seemingly meaningless would evenually slow something down in the vaccum without an orbit. but it would take a long time. Assuming no power inputs. All is theoretical without a vessel to get us that fast and far
 
bennett123
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:15 pm

casinterest wrote:
seb146 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:

Assuming that travel at the speed of light is possible, my understanding is that deep space is essentially a vacuum.

Once at the speed of light, that speed would reduce very gradually.

A secondary power source would only need to counter that very slow deceleration.


But if there is nothing pushing back, how could the speed reduce? At sea level, there is gravity and also air to slow an object. In the vacuum of space, there is nothing to offer resistance.


There would be space dust inpacts that seemingly meaningless would evenually slow something down in the vaccum without an orbit. but it would take a long time. Assuming no power inputs. All is theoretical without a vessel to get us that fast and far


It would take a long time, but inter galactic travel will.
 
bhill
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 pm

Not like we have a choice, unless we master all the rules of physics by then. As I understand, Father Sol will greatly expand in size as it uses up it's fuel rendering Earth a cinder. But we have time to get out of the solar system before then. If we do not kill ourselves off first.
 
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seb146
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:25 pm

casinterest wrote:
seb146 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:

Assuming that travel at the speed of light is possible, my understanding is that deep space is essentially a vacuum.

Once at the speed of light, that speed would reduce very gradually.

A secondary power source would only need to counter that very slow deceleration.


But if there is nothing pushing back, how could the speed reduce? At sea level, there is gravity and also air to slow an object. In the vacuum of space, there is nothing to offer resistance.


There would be space dust inpacts that seemingly meaningless would evenually slow something down in the vaccum without an orbit. but it would take a long time. Assuming no power inputs. All is theoretical without a vessel to get us that fast and far


So, light we see from a star could actually be older than scientists say?
 
StarAC17
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:14 pm

bennett123 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


Perhaps, or maybe the ships will be so big that people live and die on the ships as the travel the cosmos.
All are possibilities .


The living civilization is a real possibility. I don't think traveling faster than the speed of light is a physical possibility.

I think that will be attempted when we eventually try and go to Mars or establish some kind of colony on the moon which I would reckon has to be done first. . How much can we recycle and make the given resources self sustaining.

One problem with this is that any travel within our current solar system can rely on solar power from the sun but once out of the solar system its utter darkness. How do we manage a civilization when it will take years or even decades to get to the next solar system.


Assuming that travel at the speed of light is possible, my understanding is that deep space is essentially a vacuum.

Once at the speed of light, that speed would reduce very gradually.

A secondary power source would only need to counter that very slow deceleration.


How would you manage a civilization without power. Even if going at the speed of light or say 80% of it you need to have energy for people to consume and if we are in cryogenics then something has to power that. Nuclear could but I don't know how long a reactor could last for and we would need one working for decades if not centuries.

Essentially all spacecraft and satellites up there right now operate on solar power and batteries. If you are out of a solar system how do you create the power that a civilization needs for potentially the decades or centuries that would be necessary.

You are in utter darkness out there, its nothing. All of the energy we consume (fossil fuels included) comes from the sun in some capacity.
The closest star to the sun is 4.2 light year away, that isn't close.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxima_Centauri

I don't want to sound like a pessimist but lets figure out Mars first, that trip with current technology will take 9 months.

On another note, watch this video and see the solar system to scale. Its massive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR3Igc3Rhfg
 
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casinterest
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:15 pm

seb146 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
seb146 wrote:

But if there is nothing pushing back, how could the speed reduce? At sea level, there is gravity and also air to slow an object. In the vacuum of space, there is nothing to offer resistance.


There would be space dust inpacts that seemingly meaningless would evenually slow something down in the vaccum without an orbit. but it would take a long time. Assuming no power inputs. All is theoretical without a vessel to get us that fast and far


So, light we see from a star could actually be older than scientists say?


Light is electomagnetic energy it isn't affected by dust the same way a ship traveling through space would be. Light would either be aborbed or relected.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:18 pm

casinterest wrote:
Light is electomagnetic energy it isn't affected by dust the same way a ship traveling through space would be. Light would either be aborbed or relected.

Light traveling through a medium is slower than in vacuum. The interstellar / intergalactic medium is not a perfect vacuum; mostly Hydrogen, some Helium and a few other gases, plus a tiny amount of dust.
I doubt, however, that the effect is large in this context.

There are spaceship concepts that utilize this matter as fuel somewhat similar to how jet engines work, e.g. the Bussard ramjet, though feasibility is still under debate.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:36 am

mxaxai wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Light is electomagnetic energy it isn't affected by dust the same way a ship traveling through space would be. Light would either be aborbed or relected.

Light traveling through a medium is slower than in vacuum. The interstellar / intergalactic medium is not a perfect vacuum; mostly Hydrogen, some Helium and a few other gases, plus a tiny amount of dust.
I doubt, however, that the effect is large in this context.

There are spaceship concepts that utilize this matter as fuel somewhat similar to how jet engines work, e.g. the Bussard ramjet, though feasibility is still under debate.



Agghh, you are right, I always forget the prism effects of water and mirrors.

But a solid such as a dust or a moon wouldn't slow the general light, it would stop it Refraction around an atmosphere would bend it/slow it.
 
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seb146
Posts: 25161
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Re: Death of our Sun, life on earth

Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:37 am

casinterest wrote:
seb146 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

There would be space dust inpacts that seemingly meaningless would evenually slow something down in the vaccum without an orbit. but it would take a long time. Assuming no power inputs. All is theoretical without a vessel to get us that fast and far


So, light we see from a star could actually be older than scientists say?


Light is electomagnetic energy it isn't affected by dust the same way a ship traveling through space would be. Light would either be aborbed or relected.


So what about an impulse ahead of the ship? A beam of light, which would be electromagnetic, opening a portal allowing a ship, travelling at the same speed, to pass through?

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