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ArchGuy1
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Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:43 pm

A shooting at an LGBT nightclub in Colorado Springs has led to the death of 5 people and 25 more being injured. The suspect has had a history of a bomb threat on his record. Wondering what homophobic mindset he had.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/21/us/color ... index.html
 
bennett123
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:34 pm

Is there any evidence he was Homophobic?.
 
CaptHadley
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:35 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
A shooting at an LGBT nightclub in Colorado Springs has led to the death of 5 people and 25 more being injured. The suspect has had a history of a bomb threat on his record. Wondering what homophobic mindset he had.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/21/us/color ... index.html


How do you know he had a homophobic mindset. Haven't read that anywhere.
 
art
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:02 pm

CaptHadley wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
A shooting at an LGBT nightclub in Colorado Springs has led to the death of 5 people and 25 more being injured. The suspect has had a history of a bomb threat on his record. Wondering what homophobic mindset he had.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/21/us/color ... index.html


How do you know he had a homophobic mindset. Haven't read that anywhere.


A lot of gays killed. Isn't Archguy entitled to wonder about the killer's attitude to homosexuals?
 
leader1
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:17 pm

His grandfather is a GOP California State Assemblyman with MAGA views. He praised the January 6th seditionists. Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... riots.html
 
bennett123
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:43 pm

art wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
A shooting at an LGBT nightclub in Colorado Springs has led to the death of 5 people and 25 more being injured. The suspect has had a history of a bomb threat on his record. Wondering what homophobic mindset he had.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/21/us/color ... index.html


How do you know he had a homophobic mindset. Haven't read that anywhere.


A lot of gays killed. Isn't Archguy entitled to wonder about the killer's attitude to homosexuals?


Seem to be making assumptions.

No indication that this was the reason for the shooting.

Lets wait for the evidence.
 
TriJets
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:56 pm

The shooter has been charged with a hate crime, which makes it very likely that the victims were targeted due to their sexual orientation:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/11/21 ... oting-news
 
johns624
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:52 pm

TriJets wrote:
The shooter has been charged with a hate crime, which makes it very likely that the victims were targeted due to their sexual orientation:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/11/21 ... oting-news
Isn't "Murder" enough?
 
TriJets
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:58 pm

johns624 wrote:
TriJets wrote:
The shooter has been charged with a hate crime, which makes it very likely that the victims were targeted due to their sexual orientation:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/11/21 ... oting-news
Isn't "Murder" enough?


I don’t think anything is enough for this guy.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:46 pm

It's hard to overstate how violently anti LGBTQ conservatives have become recently and this is the direct result of a years long campaign painting everyone that is LGBTQ or LGBTQ supportive as a "groomer" after children. This is one of many violent confrontations around LGBTQ events and there is no end in sight.

ArchGuy1 wrote:
A shooting at an LGBT nightclub in Colorado Springs has led to the death of 5 people and 25 more being injured. The suspect has had a history of a bomb threat on his record. Wondering what homophobic mindset he had.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/21/us/color ... index.html

It's also exhibit A why violent people should probably not have access to guns but...you know...no psycopath left unarmed...
 
johns624
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:00 am

TriJets wrote:
johns624 wrote:
TriJets wrote:
The shooter has been charged with a hate crime, which makes it very likely that the victims were targeted due to their sexual orientation:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/11/21 ... oting-news
Isn't "Murder" enough?


I don’t think anything is enough for this guy.
My point was the sentence for these murders will be life imprisonment. Any other conviction can't increase that.
 
phluser
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:20 am

I was reading comments from a few right wing posts, and they have focused it as Colorado being weak on crime (and by way of that, it's the Democrats fault). Basically challenging why Aldrich was able to buy a gun, after his prior arrest a year and a half ago. And, why he wasn't prosecuted and jailed. I read his last crime was a bomb threat but no bomb found and a kidnapping.

I watched ABC News and they briefly mentioned privacy law which prevented him from being a red flag upon a background check. I am not sure what to make of it. If say he lived in another state and committed the same act, would the result be a different in a red state like Texas or Florida, or another blue state like Pennsylvania?
 
BN747
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:16 am

I'm sure this 300+ lb Incel (super closeted gay reject I'm sure) was most likely a religious MAGA nut to boot.

Our species will be better off the sooner we recognize that a percentage of us are just detractors of the betterment of the human condition.

This angry clown, took five lives - shattering five families directly (for life) as well as other members, as well as permanently damaging the 25+ injured
and their futures.

The pain inflicted is grossly out-weighed by the pain of loss over this turd's swift trial and execution.

It's long past time to adjust the value of (viable spare me abortion cry unless you're a woman) human life and harm done to it by others.
If their loss measures greater than what they've caused...X them, they've nothing good remaining to contribute positively to society.

BN747
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:03 am

I'd bet a few dollars on him being a severely repressed homosexual who grew up in a hard core homophobic environment...
 
bennett123
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:38 am

Lot of people are making a lot of assumptions based on very little.

I am sure we will soon have more data.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:56 am

Shouldn't a crime like this count as terrorism if it was deliberately pointed at a certain group of people to make a statement towards this group and spread fear within the community?

EDIT: Just to complete my thought:

According to international standards, including the UN Security Council, terrorism always involves the intimidation or coercion of populations or governments through the threat or perpetration of violence causing death, serious injury or the taking of hostages.


It seems clear that if the attacker chose the target because of the LGBTQ attendance, his goal was to intimidate the LGBTQ population to further have such gatherings.
 
art
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:59 am

FluidFlow wrote:
Shouldn't a crime like this count as terrorism if it was deliberately pointed at a certain group of people to make a statement towards this group and spread fear within the community?

EDIT: Just to complete my thought:

According to international standards, including the UN Security Council, terrorism always involves the intimidation or coercion of populations or governments through the threat or perpetration of violence causing death, serious injury or the taking of hostages.


It seems clear that if the attacker chose the target because of the LGBTQ attendance, his goal was to intimidate the LGBTQ population to further have such gatherings.


Could be that the killer has a visceral hatred of homosexuals and simply decided to act upon that by killing as many as he could at a place where they are known to gather.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:41 am

art wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
Shouldn't a crime like this count as terrorism if it was deliberately pointed at a certain group of people to make a statement towards this group and spread fear within the community?

EDIT: Just to complete my thought:

According to international standards, including the UN Security Council, terrorism always involves the intimidation or coercion of populations or governments through the threat or perpetration of violence causing death, serious injury or the taking of hostages.


It seems clear that if the attacker chose the target because of the LGBTQ attendance, his goal was to intimidate the LGBTQ population to further have such gatherings.


Could be that the killer has a visceral hatred of homosexuals and simply decided to act upon that by killing as many as he could at a place where they are known to gather.


Wouldn't that still be terrorism then? As hatred of homosexuals as a group is not targeted at individuals it immediately causes intimidation of any member of this group. It would be different if a specific person was his target and the others were just collateral damage, but if the killings are indiscriminately within a certain group it certainly also intimidates the rest of the group.

Otherwise you could argue that a visceral hatred towards the USA or Catholics (or take whatever you want) and subsequently killing as many as possible in a place you know there are many located is no terrorist attack. Using this as a defence would mean that the Boston marathon bombings or even 9/11 were just very well-planned hate crimes.
 
LabQuest
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:59 am

FluidFlow wrote:
art wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
Shouldn't a crime like this count as terrorism if it was deliberately pointed at a certain group of people to make a statement towards this group and spread fear within the community?

EDIT: Just to complete my thought:



It seems clear that if the attacker chose the target because of the LGBTQ attendance, his goal was to intimidate the LGBTQ population to further have such gatherings.


Could be that the killer has a visceral hatred of homosexuals and simply decided to act upon that by killing as many as he could at a place where they are known to gather.


Wouldn't that still be terrorism then? As hatred of homosexuals as a group is not targeted at individuals it immediately causes intimidation of any member of this group. It would be different if a specific person was his target and the others were just collateral damage, but if the killings are indiscriminately within a certain group it certainly also intimidates the rest of the group.

Otherwise you could argue that a visceral hatred towards the USA or Catholics (or take whatever you want) and subsequently killing as many as possible in a place you know there are many located is no terrorist attack. Using this as a defence would mean that the Boston marathon bombings or even 9/11 were just very well-planned hate crimes.


Terrorism has to have a political component. This is a hate crime.
 
JJJ
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:17 am

LabQuest wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
art wrote:

Could be that the killer has a visceral hatred of homosexuals and simply decided to act upon that by killing as many as he could at a place where they are known to gather.


Wouldn't that still be terrorism then? As hatred of homosexuals as a group is not targeted at individuals it immediately causes intimidation of any member of this group. It would be different if a specific person was his target and the others were just collateral damage, but if the killings are indiscriminately within a certain group it certainly also intimidates the rest of the group.

Otherwise you could argue that a visceral hatred towards the USA or Catholics (or take whatever you want) and subsequently killing as many as possible in a place you know there are many located is no terrorist attack. Using this as a defence would mean that the Boston marathon bombings or even 9/11 were just very well-planned hate crimes.


Terrorism has to have a political component. This is a hate crime.


There is a sizeable political and media movement in the US aimed at disenfranchising gay people (marriage/unions, adoption, visibility in certain circles, etc.)
 
art
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:42 am

JJJ wrote:
There is a sizeable political and media movement in the US aimed at disenfranchising gay people (marriage/unions, adoption, visibility in certain circles, etc.)


Perhaps, but what bearing does that have on some nutter (I consider a person who awards himself the right to kill other people a nutter) targeting a particular group of people - assuming he was?
 
FluidFlow
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:27 pm

LabQuest wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
art wrote:

Could be that the killer has a visceral hatred of homosexuals and simply decided to act upon that by killing as many as he could at a place where they are known to gather.


Wouldn't that still be terrorism then? As hatred of homosexuals as a group is not targeted at individuals it immediately causes intimidation of any member of this group. It would be different if a specific person was his target and the others were just collateral damage, but if the killings are indiscriminately within a certain group it certainly also intimidates the rest of the group.

Otherwise you could argue that a visceral hatred towards the USA or Catholics (or take whatever you want) and subsequently killing as many as possible in a place you know there are many located is no terrorist attack. Using this as a defence would mean that the Boston marathon bombings or even 9/11 were just very well-planned hate crimes.


Terrorism has to have a political component. This is a hate crime.


Not according to the United nations:

As a minimum,Terrorism involves the intimidation or coercion of populations or governments through the threat or perpetration of violence, causing death, serious injury or the taking of hostages.


https://www.ohchr.org/en/terrorism

So by brushing crimes like this into the "hate crime" distinctions instead of terrorism it softens the seriousness of the committed crime and will embolden future actors.
 
GDB
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:43 pm

There are plenty over there doing the stoking;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... o-surprise

What next? Dylan Roof with his 'Keep Rhodesia White' and other racist badges was not racially motivated in his murderous spree? Some on here tried to deny that too.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:42 pm

phluser wrote:
I was reading comments from a few right wing posts, and they have focused it as Colorado being weak on crime (and by way of that, it's the Democrats fault). Basically challenging why Aldrich was able to buy a gun, after his prior arrest a year and a half ago. And, why he wasn't prosecuted and jailed. I read his last crime was a bomb threat but no bomb found and a kidnapping.

Not surprising to hear but COS is super conservative, and it sure sounds like the local PD swept Aldrich's past offenses under the rug in order to thumb their nose at red flag laws

JJJ wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:

Wouldn't that still be terrorism then? As hatred of homosexuals as a group is not targeted at individuals it immediately causes intimidation of any member of this group. It would be different if a specific person was his target and the others were just collateral damage, but if the killings are indiscriminately within a certain group it certainly also intimidates the rest of the group.

Otherwise you could argue that a visceral hatred towards the USA or Catholics (or take whatever you want) and subsequently killing as many as possible in a place you know there are many located is no terrorist attack. Using this as a defence would mean that the Boston marathon bombings or even 9/11 were just very well-planned hate crimes.


Terrorism has to have a political component. This is a hate crime.


There is a sizeable political and media movement in the US aimed at disenfranchising gay people (marriage/unions, adoption, visibility in certain circles, etc.)

There is at *least* a weekly demonstration of right wing militias at some drag brunch in Texas. It's only a matter of time before there is mass violence.

Brunch.

FluidFlow wrote:
So by brushing crimes like this into the "hate crime" distinctions instead of terrorism it softens the seriousness of the committed crime and will embolden future actors.

Does it? To me the difference seems to be academic but I'm happy to be proven wrong. The actors are being emboldened every day by Fox News and right wing media. I'm not sure the designation of the crime would alter their decisions.
 
JJJ
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:38 pm

art wrote:
JJJ wrote:
There is a sizeable political and media movement in the US aimed at disenfranchising gay people (marriage/unions, adoption, visibility in certain circles, etc.)


Perhaps, but what bearing does that have on some nutter (I consider a person who awards himself the right to kill other people a nutter) targeting a particular group of people - assuming he was?


Were the Boston marathon bombers nutters or terrorists?

What's the role of the thought leaders (politicians, clergy, media personalities, etc.) inspiring nutters such as this one?
 
BN747
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:44 pm

Kudos to US Army vet. Richard Fierro, giving live interviews all day today, hearing his account of taking the shooter down, disarming him (Fierro did 4 tours in Iraq) then pummeling
but it was the drag queen in heels that ended the massacre with heels to the head, a great image for stomping out 'hate'.

A ring-cam of the shooter is also shown on networks, the shooter, by appearance is a social reject, 25, way overweight (Fierro stated and is a big dude but he says this guy was bigger) to be that young and a reject to women and man sexually, is a kinda obvious case of 'self-pity extreme by a loner. Living at home with his mother most likely gaming online all day while
munching down Cheetos and Diet Coke being a bad ass 'online'...and yeah, the tv never leaving Fox News - that's all that's needed to load up a brain with complete nonsense and staggering ignorant worldview. Fierro lost a young partner in the killing, the shooter had he a 'normal brain', could have been there slamming beers with Fierro instead of being pummeled by him. Sad.

BN747
 
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seb146
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:25 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Is there any evidence he was Homophobic?.


Look at all the Republican leaders out there rallying and demanding laws against homosexuality and the LGBTQ community. From Greg Abbot to Kari Lake to Ron DeSantis to MTG and Boebert and Kristi Noem and supreme MAGA leader and Proud Boys and AM talk radio and Fox infotainment........

When Democrats do something, EVER Democrat must be held accountable but when a Republican does something, blame the one person and not party messaging.
Last edited by seb146 on Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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seb146
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:26 pm

BN747 wrote:
Kudos to US Army vet. Richard Fierro, giving live interviews all day today, hearing his account of taking the shooter down, disarming him (Fierro did 4 tours in Iraq) then pummeling
but it was the drag queen in heels that ended the massacre with heels to the head, a great image for stomping out 'hate'.


Point of order: the stomper is trans.
 
johns624
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:06 pm

seb146 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Is there any evidence he was Homophobic?.


Look at all the Republican leaders out there rallying and demanding laws against homosexuality and the LGBTQ community. From Greg Abbot to Kari Lake to Ron DeSantis to MTG and Boebert and Kristi Noem and supreme MAGA leader and Proud Boys and AM talk radio and Fox infotainment........

When Democrats do something, EVER Democrat must be held accountable but when a Republican does something, blame the one person and not party messaging.
You didn't answer the question. The extremes on both sides always classify every little thing in political terms, when many times politics doesn't even enter into it.
Last edited by johns624 on Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:07 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
So by brushing crimes like this into the "hate crime" distinctions instead of terrorism it softens the seriousness of the committed crime and will embolden future actors.

Does it? To me the difference seems to be academic but I'm happy to be proven wrong. The actors are being emboldened every day by Fox News and right wing media. I'm not sure the designation of the crime would alter their decisions.


Yes, because spraying a swastika at a Synagoge because you hate Jews is a hate crime, setting fire to an Imams car because he is a Muslims is a hate crime.

On the other side bombing US-citizens because you hate them is Terrorism. And so should be the slaughter of innocent people because they are homosexual. The moment you kill people for their belief, their sexual orientation, their looks, their passport or their ethnicity it should be labelled as terrorism.

Yes it should be our obligation to put your uber patriotic Joe in the same basked as a Muslim suicide bomber. In the end of the day, they are the exact same and they do the exact same thing. Kill people for something they are/do/represent that you disagree with.
 
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seb146
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:19 pm

johns624 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Is there any evidence he was Homophobic?.


Look at all the Republican leaders out there rallying and demanding laws against homosexuality and the LGBTQ community. From Greg Abbot to Kari Lake to Ron DeSantis to MTG and Boebert and Kristi Noem and supreme MAGA leader and Proud Boys and AM talk radio and Fox infotainment........

When Democrats do something, EVER Democrat must be held accountable but when a Republican does something, blame the one person and not party messaging.
You didn't answer the question. The extremes on both sides always classify every little thing in political terms, when many times politics doesn't even enter into it.


Republicans believe there is an attack by "liberals" and LGBTQ people on children. Whether through books or drag shows or by teachers at public schools. Republican outlets run with these lies constantly in the context of danger and fear and attacks by "liberals" on "traditional values" and "it must be stopped by patriots" and so forth. I think that pretty much answers the question. People are constantly fed this BS and are told there is no other research needed to be done because this is the truth. It is not the truth. Far from it. But, when one is told "believe me an no one else" constantly, Republicans, more often than not, believe it.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:20 pm

The Colorado Springs area is very politically conservative, it is the home to the US Air Force Academy so has a lot of current and ex-military, so a lot of anti-LGTBQ and strong pro-2nd Amendment attitudes. The club that was attacked is about the only one in the area that was for LGTBQ's and one of the 'safe' places for them. Sadly we have to note how the national, indeed international attention this attack had plays right into the motives of the attacker.
 
johns624
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:31 pm

ltbewr wrote:
The Colorado Springs area is very politically conservative, it is the home to the US Air Force Academy so has a lot of current and ex-military, so a lot of anti-LGTBQ and strong pro-2nd Amendment attitudes. The club that was attacked is about the only one in the area that was for LGTBQ's and one of the 'safe' places for them. Sadly we have to note how the national, indeed international attention this attack had plays right into the motives of the attacker.
Ft Carson is a much bigger installation than the AFA. The man who took down the shooter was ex-military.
 
BN747
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:01 pm

seb146 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Kudos to US Army vet. Richard Fierro, giving live interviews all day today, hearing his account of taking the shooter down, disarming him (Fierro did 4 tours in Iraq) then pummeling
but it was the drag queen in heels that ended the massacre with heels to the head, a great image for stomping out 'hate'.


Point of order: the stomper is trans.


Even better, I hope multiple stilleto stomps were applied.


BN747
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:40 pm

art wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
Shouldn't a crime like this count as terrorism if it was deliberately pointed at a certain group of people to make a statement towards this group and spread fear within the community?

EDIT: Just to complete my thought:

According to international standards, including the UN Security Council, terrorism always involves the intimidation or coercion of populations or governments through the threat or perpetration of violence causing death, serious injury or the taking of hostages.


It seems clear that if the attacker chose the target because of the LGBTQ attendance, his goal was to intimidate the LGBTQ population to further have such gatherings.


Could be that the killer has a visceral hatred of homosexuals and simply decided to act upon that by killing as many as he could at a place where they are known to gather.


I’m sure it *could* be, but I’ve a hard time believing that someone simply had a visceral hatred of gay folks and a so much so that he massacred people doing nothing more than enjoying themselves. Perhaps if a wild band of violent and angry gay folks were attacking him or I dunno, trying to get into his (his moms) house like a bunch of zombies, I can see it.

He went to their nightclub with a gun to kill them with.

Most of the time, there is a lot more than a simple hatred that drives someone to murder.

Owing to what we do know, I’m going with him having closeted issues.
 
BN747
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:21 pm

SL1200MK2 wrote:
art wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
Shouldn't a crime like this count as terrorism if it was deliberately pointed at a certain group of people to make a statement towards this group and spread fear within the community?

EDIT: Just to complete my thought:



It seems clear that if the attacker chose the target because of the LGBTQ attendance, his goal was to intimidate the LGBTQ population to further have such gatherings.


Could be that the killer has a visceral hatred of homosexuals and simply decided to act upon that by killing as many as he could at a place where they are known to gather.


I’m sure it *could* be, but I’ve a hard time believing that someone simply had a visceral hatred of gay folks and a so much so that he massacred people doing nothing more than enjoying themselves. .


Really? Did I just read that right?

You have a hard time believing that people hold such 'vicseral hatred' of ____________ people,' ...you are terribly late to 'Hate Life' of Bigots, Racists and Anti-Semites.
It has a very long history of just how easy it is to shape and direct the minds of others to carry out acts of lethal violence on a whim.

Perhaps I missed something, but sounds like you really do not understand violent hatred in any shape or form.

BN747
 
johns624
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:33 pm

People shoot up heterosexual nightclubs and bars, too. Does that mean that they hate heterosexuals? Just playing devil's advocate here...
Terrorism charges would make sense if no one was killed, since the sentence would probably be stiffer. With murder charges already on the table, adding more charges are just to make some feel good and special.
 
SL1200MK2
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Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:20 am

BN747 wrote:
SL1200MK2 wrote:
art wrote:

Could be that the killer has a visceral hatred of homosexuals and simply decided to act upon that by killing as many as he could at a place where they are known to gather.


I’m sure it *could* be, but I’ve a hard time believing that someone simply had a visceral hatred of gay folks and a so much so that he massacred people doing nothing more than enjoying themselves. .


Really? Did I just read that right?

You have a hard time believing that people hold such 'vicseral hatred' of ____________ people,' ...you are terribly late to 'Hate Life' of Bigots, Racists and Anti-Semites.
It has a very long history of just how easy it is to shape and direct the minds of others to carry out acts of lethal violence on a whim.

Perhaps I missed something, but sounds like you really do not understand violent hatred in any shape or form.

BN747



Hey dude,

I think you did read it properly and my writing was just poor in this case.

I was trying to point out that lots of people hate gay folks, Jews etc etc but very few of that bunch actually go out and murder them. This is certainly not to say that it’s not a problem and shouldn’t be addressed. I’m a proud and active Jew and I’m more than proud of my gay sister and these developments terrify me. I more meant that people are welcome to have their likes and dislikes for better or worse but violently acting on them is not particularly common.

Nonetheless, very clumsy on my part and I apologize if that came across as offensive as it certainly wasn’t my intention.

I also sometimes forget that I’m in quite a bubble here in SF where the only time I hear about these instances are when then happen elsewhere.

Regards sir!
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:28 am

BN747 wrote:
SL1200MK2 wrote:
art wrote:

Could be that the killer has a visceral hatred of homosexuals and simply decided to act upon that by killing as many as he could at a place where they are known to gather.


I’m sure it *could* be, but I’ve a hard time believing that someone simply had a visceral hatred of gay folks and a so much so that he massacred people doing nothing more than enjoying themselves. .


Really? Did I just read that right?

You have a hard time believing that people hold such 'vicseral hatred' of ____________ people,' ...you are terribly late to 'Hate Life' of Bigots, Racists and Anti-Semites.
It has a very long history of just how easy it is to shape and direct the minds of others to carry out acts of lethal violence on a whim.

Perhaps I missed something, but sounds like you really do not understand violent hatred in any shape or form.

BN747


One last point - I am indeed at a misunderstanding of violent hatred and I’m not sure how to understand it. I do try to be aware of it but without being violent and hateful myself, it’s easy to misunderstand
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:32 am

johns624 wrote:
People shoot up heterosexual nightclubs and bars, too. Does that mean that they hate heterosexuals? Just playing devil's advocate here...
Terrorism charges would make sense if no one was killed, since the sentence would probably be stiffer. With murder charges already on the table, adding more charges are just to make some feel good and special.


Perhaps but I think there is some validity to what the charges are regardless if
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 25163
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:01 am

johns624 wrote:
People shoot up heterosexual nightclubs and bars, too. Does that mean that they hate heterosexuals? Just playing devil's advocate here...
Terrorism charges would make sense if no one was killed, since the sentence would probably be stiffer. With murder charges already on the table, adding more charges are just to make some feel good and special.


Where is the hate filled rhetoric against heterosexuals? The calls by liberal talking heads that heterosexuals are grooming children and forcing children to be heterosexual? Where are the lawmakers demanding CPS be called when children are being read to by heterosexuals?
 
BN747
Posts: 8083
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:22 am

SL1200MK2 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
SL1200MK2 wrote:

I’m sure it *could* be, but I’ve a hard time believing that someone simply had a visceral hatred of gay folks and a so much so that he massacred people doing nothing more than enjoying themselves. .


Really? Did I just read that right?

You have a hard time believing that people hold such 'vicseral hatred' of ____________ people,' ...you are terribly late to 'Hate Life' of Bigots, Racists and Anti-Semites.
It has a very long history of just how easy it is to shape and direct the minds of others to carry out acts of lethal violence on a whim.

Perhaps I missed something, but sounds like you really do not understand violent hatred in any shape or form.

BN747


One last point - I am indeed at a misunderstanding of violent hatred and I’m not sure how to understand it. I do try to be aware of it but without being violent and hateful myself, it’s easy to misunderstand



Okay, I did read exactly what I thought I read...

And I did see you express that 'you're a proud Jew'...then the above of your having a 'misunderstanding of violent hatred..'...then my head exploded!


The Holocaust, the 3rd worst genocidal, violent acts of abject inhumanity exacted on a specific people (1 -N/S America Indigenous people 2 - African Slave Trade African Exploitation)

1 & 2 - Inhuman Acts of Savagery for Profit (Catholic Church Discovery Doctrine)
3rd - Outright hatred of Jews and other minorities (Gypsies, Nomadic rivalries 'score settling' etc)

Making the statement of being a proud Jew and having a misunderstanding raw naked human hatred at it's worse..tells me you have either avoided or had the misfortune of poor schooling
on so much that has taken place in America in the last 80 years or so.

Americans will have forgotten about the COS shooting by next week (Thanksgiving - yeah,) followed by the Xmas rush then of course some nutjob human somewhere will have to make a big deadly act of inhumanity here or somewhere around the world before 2023 arrives. Luckily young LGBTQ voters and young Gun Violence David Hogg + his league of young voters, will not forget and will break even bigger in 2024 as they did impress in this years midterms.

I take offense to 'a proud Jew' making such a statement on hatred when synagogues are being vandalized almost weekly, idiots like Kyrie and Kanye publicly displaying
their sheer ignorance of a relatable tragic history suffered by Jews because they're too intellectually lazy to bother (Kyrie is still young...but still).
Anti-Semitic fervor is at an all time high right now and Traitor Trump isn't helping.

Also, I've had to part with a group of older Jewish guys (60s-80s) I'd meet up with to discuss geopolitical issues.politics.
I made that decision because they appear to be like yourself and are unaware of pervasive Jewish threats, online and around the corner...while a few younger Jewish friends are more militant in thier attitudes. I would think that 'most' of the older guys would know better.

Violent Hatred...it's real.


BN747
 
BN747
Posts: 8083
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:32 am

Mostly pure as snow haven, Idaho, Red State...Urban Crime.

https://www.opb.org/article/2022/06/13/ ... t-members/

The police are not Nazi enough just yet

Right-wing extremists had recently been ratcheting up anti-LGBTQ rhetoric online

in addition the University multi-slaying of four college students ... a still mystery.

..if it's in Idaho, it's everywhere.

BN747
 
N1120A
Posts: 27599
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:38 am

I mean, you can pretend this isn't yet another incidence of the scourge of white, male, right wing terrorism in the United States, but you'd be wrong. We all know who radicalized him, but when will anyone ever say anything? When will the "good" Christians denounce terrorism? Maybe starting with Randy Voelper?
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:14 am

BN747 wrote:
SL1200MK2 wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Really? Did I just read that right?

You have a hard time believing that people hold such 'vicseral hatred' of ____________ people,' ...you are terribly late to 'Hate Life' of Bigots, Racists and Anti-Semites.
It has a very long history of just how easy it is to shape and direct the minds of others to carry out acts of lethal violence on a whim.

Perhaps I missed something, but sounds like you really do not understand violent hatred in any shape or form.

BN747


One last point - I am indeed at a misunderstanding of violent hatred and I’m not sure how to understand it. I do try to be aware of it but without being violent and hateful myself, it’s easy to misunderstand



Okay, I did read exactly what I thought I read...

And I did see you express that 'you're a proud Jew'...then the above of your having a 'misunderstanding of violent hatred..'...then my head exploded!


The Holocaust, the 3rd worst genocidal, violent acts of abject inhumanity exacted on a specific people (1 -N/S America Indigenous people 2 - African Slave Trade African Exploitation)

1 & 2 - Inhuman Acts of Savagery for Profit (Catholic Church Discovery Doctrine)
3rd - Outright hatred of Jews and other minorities (Gypsies, Nomadic rivalries 'score settling' etc)

Making the statement of being a proud Jew and having a misunderstanding raw naked human hatred at it's worse..tells me you have either avoided or had the misfortune of poor schooling
on so much that has taken place in America in the last 80 years or so.

Americans will have forgotten about the COS shooting by next week (Thanksgiving - yeah,) followed by the Xmas rush then of course some nutjob human somewhere will have to make a big deadly act of inhumanity here or somewhere around the world before 2023 arrives. Luckily young LGBTQ voters and young Gun Violence David Hogg + his league of young voters, will not forget and will break even bigger in 2024 as they did impress in this years midterms.

I take offense to 'a proud Jew' making such a statement on hatred when synagogues are being vandalized almost weekly, idiots like Kyrie and Kanye publicly displaying
their sheer ignorance of a relatable tragic history suffered by Jews because they're too intellectually lazy to bother (Kyrie is still young...but still).
Anti-Semitic fervor is at an all time high right now and Traitor Trump isn't helping.

Also, I've had to part with a group of older Jewish guys (60s-80s) I'd meet up with to discuss geopolitical issues.politics.
I made that decision because they appear to be like yourself and are unaware of pervasive Jewish threats, online and around the corner...while a few younger Jewish friends are more militant in thier attitudes. I would think that 'most' of the older guys would know better.

Violent Hatred...it's real.


BN747


Obviously I’ve offended you but I don’t think this is a good place to discuss what has become personal.

In any case, if you’d ever like to discuss, you can send me a personal message here because I think first, I like to hear your point of view and second, I’d like to defend myself as well.

Regards
 
BN747
Posts: 8083
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:07 am

SL1200MK2 wrote:
Obviously I’ve offended you but I don’t think this is a good place to discuss what has become personal.

In any case, if you’d ever like to discuss, you can send me a personal message here because I think first, I like to hear your point of view and second, I’d like to defend myself as well.

Regards


No you haven't ..I just find it conflicting that a self proclaimed 'proud Jew' being admittedly unaware of the greatest acts of violence were driven by 'hatred' to the current waves of smoldering
hatred since 'the Jews will not replace us' Charlottesville rampage 6 years ago til this topic...

..that's confounding to anyone reasonably versed history, especially modern day (last 100 years).

If you're comfortable with blissfully dismissing that much pain, then that is for you to reconcile own your own, you don't need my input.

BN747
 
Redd
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:24 am

Aldrich identifies as non-binary and uses they/them pronouns, according to their attorney.

It'll be interesting to see if this is genuine.

https://www.axios.com/2022/11/23/colora ... orneys-say
 
bluecrew
Posts: 684
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:13 am

Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:13 am

Redd wrote:
Aldrich identifies as non-binary and uses they/them pronouns, according to their attorney.

It'll be interesting to see if this is genuine.

https://www.axios.com/2022/11/23/colora ... orneys-say

Interesting.

I'm going to guess it isn't some sort of legal ploy or "strategic move" by some right-winger attorney - he's represented by public defenders and this was in a court filing.

And, I'll be honest, just read this thread, and I'm really disgusted by the amount of reactionary backbiting trying to justify what is clearly a hate crime. Nobody equivocated and tried to defend it when a domestic terrorist shot up the Pulse nightclub in Orlando. This man is a domestic terrorist. Why are we discussing whether he targeted a population, according to the UN definition of terrorism? Is the LGBTQ community suddenly not a population?
 
johns624
Posts: 6224
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:59 pm

seb146 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
People shoot up heterosexual nightclubs and bars, too. Does that mean that they hate heterosexuals? Just playing devil's advocate here...
Terrorism charges would make sense if no one was killed, since the sentence would probably be stiffer. With murder charges already on the table, adding more charges are just to make some feel good and special.


Where is the hate filled rhetoric against heterosexuals? The calls by liberal talking heads that heterosexuals are grooming children and forcing children to be heterosexual? Where are the lawmakers demanding CPS be called when children are being read to by heterosexuals?
Well, he also threatened to kill his mother, so where does that fit in to your tidy little worldview?
This situation is a perfect example of people trying to politicize everything. Some people point to his grandfather being a GOP politician so inferring that he must've been a hateful conservative. Then his lawyers say he was "nonbinary", which would make him a "self loathing" gay person. It might be one, it might be the other, or it could be "neither".
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 25163
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Shooting at a Nightclub in Colorado Springs

Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:16 pm

johns624 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
People shoot up heterosexual nightclubs and bars, too. Does that mean that they hate heterosexuals? Just playing devil's advocate here...
Terrorism charges would make sense if no one was killed, since the sentence would probably be stiffer. With murder charges already on the table, adding more charges are just to make some feel good and special.


Where is the hate filled rhetoric against heterosexuals? The calls by liberal talking heads that heterosexuals are grooming children and forcing children to be heterosexual? Where are the lawmakers demanding CPS be called when children are being read to by heterosexuals?
Well, he also threatened to kill his mother, so where does that fit in to your tidy little worldview?
This situation is a perfect example of people trying to politicize everything. Some people point to his grandfather being a GOP politician so inferring that he must've been a hateful conservative. Then his lawyers say he was "nonbinary", which would make him a "self loathing" gay person. It might be one, it might be the other, or it could be "neither".


We are just now, after he shot up an LGBTQ night club, learning he claims to be nonbinary. Convenient. That might get the hate crimes charges dropped. Until they see his social media posts. He didn't have a huge online presence, which is consistent with right wingers. A history of violence has nothing to do with anything. But, that he continued his violent ways is very telling.

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