Most people are well aware that Switzerland has been officially neutral for centuries. Many are also aware that Sweden and Finland are neutral but have applied for NATO membership. Other countries have been wanting them to join for years. Yet, no one talks about Austria also being neutral since WW2. Why the obscurity?

johns624 wrote:

Most people are well aware that Switzerland has been officially neutral for centuries. Many are also aware that Sweden and Finland are neutral but have applied for NATO membership. Other countries have been wanting them to join for years. Yet, no one talks about Austria also being neutral since WW2. Why the obscurity?

As the WW2 occupying troops pulled out of Austria in 1955, the Austrian constitution came into effect with a declaration of neutrality. There were a lot of political problems existing at the time because of Britain's postwar attempts to infiltrate spies, saboteurs and activists into Eastern Europe (with US participation).

The Declaration of Neutrality (German: Neutralitätserklärung) was a declaration by the Austrian Parliament declaring the country permanently neutral. It was enacted on 26 October 1955 as a constitutional act of parliament, i.e., as part of the Constitution of Austria.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Neutrality

Nobody since has seen reason enough to re-open what would be a political can of worms.

A blurb:
https://www.thelocal.at/20220208/explai ... eutrality/

Vintage wrote:

As the WW2 occupying troops pulled out of Austria in 1955, the Austrian constitution came into effect with a declaration of neutrality. There were a lot of political problems existing at the time because of Britain's postwar attempts to infiltrate spies, saboteurs and activists into Eastern Europe (with US participation)..........................

I overstated the effect that earlier British/American operations had in Eastern Europe in 1955 and I should have pointed out that the major consideration was that Russia agreed to the pullout of Allied Forces if Austria remained neutral. The Austrian people of the period were bitter over the oppressive occupation by the Russian Army and wanted the Russians out.

There is an excellent historical article at the National WWII Museum site, that provides the record of events leading up to the 1955 pullout.
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/about-us

It includes:

The November 1945 parliamentary election, administered by the four occupying powers, resulted in the trouncing of the Communist Party of Austria, which won less than six percent of the national vote. The new government was formed by the coalition of Social Democrats and Christian Democrats, the traditional center-left and center-right Austrian parties. However, the Soviets continued to exercise control in their zone of occupation. The Soviets pulled out of the country in 1955, along with the Western Allies, in exchange for Austria’s promises that it would remain neutral in the Cold War. The Soviet Union released Austrian prisoners at a much faster rate than the Germans, but the last Austrians were not released until 1955.

johns624 wrote:

Most people are well aware that Switzerland has been officially neutral for centuries. Many are also aware that Sweden and Finland are neutral but have applied for NATO membership. Other countries have been wanting them to join for years. Yet, no one talks about Austria also being neutral since WW2. Why the obscurity?

Why not talk about Ireland, which is also 'neutral'? Austria and Ireland are both members of the EU. Within the EU treaties, there is a kind of article 5-clause, so I would argue that they actually kind of have aligned themselves. Sweden and Finland actually border Russia, so that is a different matter, they made their alignment much more visible as a reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. No need for Austria and Ireland to do so.

Dutchy wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Most people are well aware that Switzerland has been officially neutral for centuries. Many are also aware that Sweden and Finland are neutral but have applied for NATO membership. Other countries have been wanting them to join for years. Yet, no one talks about Austria also being neutral since WW2. Why the obscurity?

Why not talk about Ireland, which is also 'neutral'? Austria and Ireland are both members of the EU. Within the EU treaties, there is a kind of article 5-clause, so I would argue that they actually kind of have aligned themselves. Sweden and Finland actually border Russia, so that is a different matter, they made their alignment much more visible as a reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. No need for Austria and Ireland to do so.

Slight correction - Sweden does not border Russia. In the north it's Norway then Finland.

Sweden seems to be having issues of Russian subs and planes in/over the Baltic.

Dutchy wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Most people are well aware that Switzerland has been officially neutral for centuries. Many are also aware that Sweden and Finland are neutral but have applied for NATO membership. Other countries have been wanting them to join for years. Yet, no one talks about Austria also being neutral since WW2. Why the obscurity?

Why not talk about Ireland, which is also 'neutral'? Austria and Ireland are both members of the EU. Within the EU treaties, there is a kind of article 5-clause, so I would argue that they actually kind of have aligned themselves. Sweden and Finland actually border Russia, so that is a different matter, they made their alignment much more visible as a reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. No need for Austria and Ireland to do so.

Unlike Austria, Ireland did not have any role in WW2 (though many of its citizens volunteered to flight with the allies, that being the British), neither was it post war a hotbed of early Cold War divisions and intrigue that Vienna in particular was.
https://journals.openedition.org/etudes ... 51?lang=en
Beyond supporting, including seeing combat doing so, UN operations, Cold War Ireland was not in a position to doing anything meaningful, the early part saw economic stagnation and mass migration, the military reality meant no need to contribute even if the political will and money was there. What would it have a amounted to? A couple of light Frigates and simpler MPAs?

The 1955 agreement put limits on Austrian armed forces, in the mid 50’s ‘missiles’ meant really one thing, offensive weapons. Hence until post the Cold War their Draken fighters could only have cannon not AIM-9’s and no AT missiles for the army either.
Even Finland with that Soviet influence did not require that.

johns624 wrote:

Most people are well aware that Switzerland has been officially neutral for centuries. Many are also aware that Sweden and Finland are neutral but have applied for NATO membership. Other countries have been wanting them to join for years. Yet, no one talks about Austria also being neutral since WW2. Why the obscurity?

Switzerland is not neutral. It is pro-corruption, pro-malfeasance, pro-illegality, pro-laundering, pro-embezzling, anti-sunshine polity that has become wealthy for centuries out of the abuse of the powerful in all other countries. And then they still have the gall to be restrictive about migrants. I have no idea why they keep getting pass after pass after pass.

Derico wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Most people are well aware that Switzerland has been officially neutral for centuries. Many are also aware that Sweden and Finland are neutral but have applied for NATO membership. Other countries have been wanting them to join for years. Yet, no one talks about Austria also being neutral since WW2. Why the obscurity?

Switzerland is not neutral. It is pro-corruption, pro-malfeasance, pro-illegality, pro-laundering, pro-embezzling, anti-sunshine polity that has become wealthy for centuries out of the abuse of the powerful in all other countries. And then they still have the gall to be restrictive about migrants. I have no idea why they keep getting pass after pass after pass.

You just listed all the reasons why it gets away with it. The rich and powerful use it and don't want to lose it. Just like some countries have "territories" that are governed totally from the mother country except for banking laws. The banking laws are much more lenient than the mother country. They make great tax shelters for the rich while still being "safe" places to park your money.

Derico wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Most people are well aware that Switzerland has been officially neutral for centuries. Many are also aware that Sweden and Finland are neutral but have applied for NATO membership. Other countries have been wanting them to join for years. Yet, no one talks about Austria also being neutral since WW2. Why the obscurity?

Switzerland is not neutral. It is pro-corruption, pro-malfeasance, pro-illegality, pro-laundering, pro-embezzling, anti-sunshine polity that has become wealthy for centuries out of the abuse of the powerful in all other countries. And then they still have the gall to be restrictive about migrants. I have no idea why they keep getting pass after pass after pass.

That is not what 'Neutral' means.

Austria isn't neutral, it's militarily non-aligned.

ChrisKen wrote:

Austria isn't neutral, it's militarily non-aligned.

And the difference is???

ReverseFlow wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Most people are well aware that Switzerland has been officially neutral for centuries. Many are also aware that Sweden and Finland are neutral but have applied for NATO membership. Other countries have been wanting them to join for years. Yet, no one talks about Austria also being neutral since WW2. Why the obscurity?

Why not talk about Ireland, which is also 'neutral'? Austria and Ireland are both members of the EU. Within the EU treaties, there is a kind of article 5-clause, so I would argue that they actually kind of have aligned themselves. Sweden and Finland actually border Russia, so that is a different matter, they made their alignment much more visible as a reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. No need for Austria and Ireland to do so.

Slight correction - Sweden does not border Russia. In the north it's Norway then Finland.

Sweden seems to be having issues of Russian subs and planes in/over the Baltic.

Yeah, Sweden has a sea border with Russia, no land border indeed.

johns624 wrote:

ChrisKen wrote:

Austria isn't neutral, it's militarily non-aligned.

And the difference is???

It's enacted EU sanctions on Russia. Austria therefore has acted with it's allies, ergo not neutral.
Austria is non-aligned, although it won't use military to provide aid to EU members under article 42.7 or the rest of world it's in political alliance with the EU. Austria does not allow military alliances or foreign military bases in Austria but they do deploy their forces outside Austria.
Austria also deploys it's military on UN peacekeeping duties.

Austria therefore DOES NOT meet the internationally recogised criteria of a neutral country, despite it's own claims. Ditto Ireland (and technically Malta), they are military non-aligned too.

How about the Vatican? Neutral.

Dutchy wrote:

ReverseFlow wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Why not talk about Ireland, which is also 'neutral'? Austria and Ireland are both members of the EU. Within the EU treaties, there is a kind of article 5-clause, so I would argue that they actually kind of have aligned themselves. Sweden and Finland actually border Russia, so that is a different matter, they made their alignment much more visible as a reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. No need for Austria and Ireland to do so.

Slight correction - Sweden does not border Russia. In the north it's Norway then Finland.

Sweden seems to be having issues of Russian subs and planes in/over the Baltic.

Yeah, Sweden has a sea border with Russia, no land border indeed.

Are you sure about that chief? If ther eis a sea border it's at best a couple of km's or so long.

http://iilss.net/tag/sweden-maritime-boundaries/

http://iilss.net/?s=Kaliningrad

Kiwirob wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

ReverseFlow wrote:

Slight correction - Sweden does not border Russia. In the north it's Norway then Finland.

Sweden seems to be having issues of Russian subs and planes in/over the Baltic.

Yeah, Sweden has a sea border with Russia, no land border indeed.

Are you sure about that chief? If ther eis a sea border it's at best a couple of km's or so long.

http://iilss.net/tag/sweden-maritime-boundaries/

http://iilss.net/?s=Kaliningrad

Some people can't admit that they made an error.

Kiwirob wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

ReverseFlow wrote:

Slight correction - Sweden does not border Russia. In the north it's Norway then Finland.

Sweden seems to be having issues of Russian subs and planes in/over the Baltic.

Yeah, Sweden has a sea border with Russia, no land border indeed.

Are you sure about that chief? If ther eis a sea border it's at best a couple of km's or so long.

http://iilss.net/tag/sweden-maritime-boundaries/

http://iilss.net/?s=Kaliningrad

Yes, meistro, I am sure you know what I meant. Sweden is on the Baltic Sea and Russia is playing its wargames there. But fine if it makes you feel better to think you are absolutely right, please do so.