Tugger wrote:

If anything the most devious thing to do is perhaps try him in absentia. Because who needs him? Unlike Capone, he's basically harmless (except to his party).

Tugg

Trump destroying his party in the process would do the US a great service. He may be a selfish idiot but there are plenty others that are extremely determined to remove rights and personal liberties. For them, he's a very useful idiot.

"BREAKING Trump says expecting 'arrest' on Tuesday."

I do hope he is not disappointed.

readytotaxi wrote:

"BREAKING Trump says expecting 'arrest' on Tuesday."

I do hope he is not disappointed.

They should arrest him on Monday instead..

vrbarreto wrote:

readytotaxi wrote:

"BREAKING Trump says expecting 'arrest' on Tuesday."

I do hope he is not disappointed.

They should arrest him on Monday instead..

Quite likely it’s a courtesy notification extended to his because his rich, famous, and a former POTUS. Happens a lot where attorneys negotiate a time for the person to turn themselves in for the arrest to limit the possibility of a circus. It was what was supposed to happen with OJ Simpson the day he ended up being escorted around the Southern California Highway system.

Trump’s lawyer says there won’t be a standoff, and maybe he’s telling the truth. But Trump is delusional and narcissistic, so it wouldn’t shock me if he thinks that he can conjure up a group of protestors to “save” him.

It is doubtful his possible arrest will occur on Tuesday, March 21st. There are reports of at least one more witness for the Grand Jury to hear from and they meet on Monday. The bill of Indictment could be voted on that day by the Grand Jurors. That is unlikely as only meet for 3 hours per session, there are required procedures of the DA presenting the charges to be considered, the law behind them, with possible follow up questions by the Jurors to the DA, possibly wanting to hear from other witnesses. Most likely the Grand Jurors will meet to consider at its next scheduled session on Wednesday. If there are any indictments voted for, the decision is sealed, Trump and his attorneys are informed first, arrangements are made tor his arraignments and arrest. Of course it is very likely there will either be a leak by Jurors or people in the DA's office if Trump is or isn't indicted and the DA could cause a public disclosure. The arraignment would most likely be as early as Thursday or Friday, more likley next week to allow for the city and courts to prepare for the obvious security needs for it. I would note I have served on Grand Juries in New Jersey 2 times and the procedures in NY are similar to NJ's. https://news.yahoo.com/not-fast-york-gr ... 49782.html)

To me Trump is trying to intimidate the DA, the Grand Jurors, the news media and the public before the GJ makes its decision. He may even appear in person in NYC on Tuesday to lead a huge rally of his rabid dog supporters to lead it. It is going to be very interesting this week and I hope only a small crowd of his supporters turn out and no violence.

ltbewr wrote:

It is doubtful his possible arrest will occur on Tuesday, March 21st. There are reports of at least one more witness for the Grand Jury to hear from and they meet on Monday. The bill of Indictment could be voted on that day by the Grand Jurors. That is unlikely as only meet for 3 hours per session, there are required procedures of the DA presenting the charges to be considered, the law behind them, with possible follow up questions by the Jurors to the DA, possibly wanting to hear from other witnesses. Most likely the Grand Jurors will meet to consider at its next scheduled session on Wednesday. If there are any indictments voted for, the decision is sealed, Trump and his attorneys are informed first, arrangements are made tor his arraignments and arrest. Of course it is very likely there will either be a leak by Jurors or people in the DA's office if Trump is or isn't indicted and the DA could cause a public disclosure. The arraignment would most likely be as early as Thursday or Friday, more likley next week to allow for the city and courts to prepare for the obvious security needs for it. I would note I have served on Grand Juries in New Jersey 2 times and the procedures in NY are similar to NJ's. https://news.yahoo.com/not-fast-york-gr ... 49782.html)

To me Trump is trying to intimidate the DA, the Grand Jurors, the news media and the public before the GJ makes its decision. He may even appear in person in NYC on Tuesday to lead a huge rally of his rabid dog supporters to lead it. It is going to be very interesting this week and I hope only a small crowd of his supporters turn out and no violence.

Helpful insight!

If there is a large violent mob, hopefully the media will give it coverage.

bennett123 wrote:

If there is a large violent mob, hopefully the media will give it coverage.

Can we offer Mike Pence as tribute [again]?

MaverickM11 wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

If there is a large violent mob, hopefully the media will give it coverage.

Can we offer Mike Pence as tribute [again]?

Perhaps Mike Pence should be more vocal.

I doubt he will be arrested Tuesday. This is just his way of staying in the headlines. Letting his followers know he is still and will forever be the victim. But, mostly, that he is still relevant.

The Republicans are already screaming about how this prosecution is political. The only thing they don't want to talk about are the facts of the case. In the Stormy Daniels case, what is the crime? What is the evidence? This case is a hot potato. Anyone who knows anything about how the DA office works, knows that they would not dare bring charges against Trump unless they had an open and shut case. To lose a case like this would be a political disaster the DA's office. No DA anywhere want's to go there.

So, should the New York DA not press charges because it is Donald Trump? if so, why?

Perhaps if James Austin Johnson {SNL} were to turn up the crowd would not know who to follow.

victrola wrote:

The Republicans are already screaming about how this prosecution is political. The only thing they don't want to talk about are the facts of the case. In the Stormy Daniels case, what is the crime? What is the evidence? This case is a hot potato. Anyone who knows anything about how the DA office works, knows that they would not dare bring charges against Trump unless they had an open and shut case. To lose a case like this would be a political disaster the DA's office. No DA anywhere want's to go there.

So, should the New York DA not press charges because it is Donald Trump? if so, why?

The initial crime is that Trump had his attorney, Michael Cohen, make the $130,000 payment to Daniels, in order to keep it quiet and off the books. Then he reimbursed Cohen in discrete payments of $35,000 as attorney fees.

That is effectively a structuring and concealment of financial records. But it's a minor felony that is mostly a "gateway" prosecution for whatever underlying activity motivated the secret payments.

In this case, the underlying motivation was to secure an NDA from Daniels and prevent her from speaking out during the 2016 election campaign. That introduces a possible illegal campaign finance charge. If the payment was in support of the campaign, it has to be disclosed, as well as the source funds.

That in turn raises the issue as to whether Trump personally paid, which could be an undisclosed campaign contribution by him. Or if other campaign funds were improperly used for that purpose, by routing through Trump organizations.

So the grand jury has to follow the money and weigh the evidence, to decide which (if any) of these charges are merited.

You may recall ex-Speaker Dennis Hastert was caught up in a similar situation, where he paid hush money to keep quiet a sexual liaison with an underage male, but concealed it by a series of small payments to stay below the reporting limit. He is currently the highest-ranking ex-government official to serve a prison sentence. Trump could potentially supplant him, if convicted and sentenced.

victrola wrote:

The Republicans are already screaming about how this prosecution is political. The only thing they don't want to talk about are the facts of the case. In the Stormy Daniels case, what is the crime? What is the evidence? This case is a hot potato. Anyone who knows anything about how the DA office works, knows that they would not dare bring charges against Trump unless they had an open and shut case. To lose a case like this would be a political disaster the DA's office. No DA anywhere want's to go there.

So, should the New York DA not press charges because it is Donald Trump? if so, why?

Folks would do well to remember that this has a lot of similarities with the investigation that led to Clinton’s impeachment. Not identical but it rhymes. You have a political operation incensed that a guy with a lot of personal baggage and questionable/illegal behavior gets the office. They then spend years investigating everybody he’s ever known, and what they tag him on is a lie about felatio and a cigar.

luckyone wrote:

Folks would do well to remember that this has a lot of similarities with the investigation that led to Clinton’s impeachment. Not identical but it rhymes. You have a political operation incensed that a guy with a lot of personal baggage and questionable/illegal behavior gets the office. They then spend years investigating everybody he’s ever known, and what they tag him on is a lie about felatio and a cigar.

One important difference is that the Clinton case involved a civil matter, with the only criminal element being his citation for contempt of court, in narrowly defining sexual contact to exclude his actions, within his testimony. That might, but ultimately did not, result in a charge of perjury, mainly due to an error in the definition supplied by the Starr team. He did not contest the contempt citation or penalty.

With Trump there is no real question that criminal finance laws were broken. What remains to be determined is his culpability. His attorney Cohen has already plead guilty. So Trump would have to assert Cohen acted alone, or deceived him.

MaverickM11 wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

If there is a large violent mob, hopefully the media will give it coverage.

Can we offer Mike Pence as tribute [again]?

Agree. If he were a good sport, he would take one for the country

luckyone wrote:

victrola wrote:

The Republicans are already screaming about how this prosecution is political. The only thing they don't want to talk about are the facts of the case. In the Stormy Daniels case, what is the crime? What is the evidence? This case is a hot potato. Anyone who knows anything about how the DA office works, knows that they would not dare bring charges against Trump unless they had an open and shut case. To lose a case like this would be a political disaster the DA's office. No DA anywhere want's to go there.

So, should the New York DA not press charges because it is Donald Trump? if so, why?

Folks would do well to remember that this has a lot of similarities with the investigation that led to Clinton’s impeachment. Not identical but it rhymes. You have a political operation incensed that a guy with a lot of personal baggage and questionable/illegal behavior gets the office. They then spend years investigating everybody he’s ever known, and what they tag him on is a lie about felatio and a cigar.

Fellatio? Haven’t heard that word used in 30 years…lol. To avoid any possible confusion best to keep it simple and just call it a BJ for the young lads here. Thanks for the chuckle…. Much appreciated

Good to see you're not down in the mouth.

A few questions here:

If Trump is indicted by the NY DA what is the charge?
Is it a felony or misdemeanor?
Was there any statute of limitations on this? If I am correct, the incident was about 8 years ago.
If these circumstances involved Joe Average, would the DA be looking at indictment given the seriousness of the alleged crime and the amount of time that has passed since the alleged crime?

victrola wrote:

A few questions here:

If Trump is indicted by the NY DA what is the charge?
Is it a felony or misdemeanor?
Was there any statute of limitations on this? If I am correct, the incident was about 8 years ago.
If these circumstances involved Joe Average, would the DA be looking at indictment given the seriousness of the alleged crime and the amount of time that has passed since the alleged crime?

Also, can he be charged in juvenile court because of his childish behavior? Or is it only biological age that counts?

victrola wrote:

A few questions here:

If Trump is indicted by the NY DA what is the charge?
Is it a felony or misdemeanor?
Was there any statute of limitations on this? If I am correct, the incident was about 8 years ago.
If these circumstances involved Joe Average, would the DA be looking at indictment given the seriousness of the alleged crime and the amount of time that has passed since the alleged crime?

This is explained in a post above. If the charge of concealment was not done in the commission of an underlying crime, it can be a misdemeanor. If there is an underlying crime that is a felony, then the concealment is also a felony.

The statute of limitations varies with the charge, but ranges from 3 to 10 years. I think it's safe to say the DA knows the law and would not pursue the case outside the limitations. Additionally, Trump could not be indicted while he was President, so charging him has only been possible for two years.

There is no comparison to Joe Average here, because the payment to Daniels (and McDougal) was made during a Presidential election campaign. If there is an underlying crime, it will be a campaign finance violation, as explained in the above post.

Trump's position is that the payments were a personal matter between himself and these women. But he routed them through his attorney, which at minimum is concealment. And he did it to protect his election campaign, which could be a campaign finance felony, if the grand jury decides it meets the threshold.

His attorney Michael Cohen has already plead guilty to the underlying felony of campaign finance violations. So it will be difficult for Trump to show that he did not commit the same crime.

Avatar2go wrote:

His attorney Michael Cohen has already plead guilty to the underlying felony of campaign finance violations. So it will be difficult for Trump to show that he did not commit the same crime.

That is true, but Michael Cohen also pleaded guilty to seven other felonies, several much more serious than the Stormy Daniels payoff. If that’s all Trump is (probably) going to be indicted for it’s a relatively minor infraction in the great scheme of things.

It will nonetheless make history by setting a precedent that former presidents can be indicted.

Nothing on Monday, looks like any possible indictment will happen Wednesday, the next scheduled date for the Grand Jury to meet. As of today, the NYPD and court law enforcement have been preparing for protesters and the media mob that will be happening for sure. Many Republicans, as to Trump, look like the people of North Korea as to their 'dear leader', afraid to speak against Trump in any way, calling the Manhattan DA's case a political one on Trump personally and for his politics.

Looks like the claim that Cohen acted alone has already begun. The grand jury witness today was Robert Costello, a Trump associate who testified that Cohen acted alone, is unreliable, and is out for revenge on Trump.

So I guess that's the defense they will use. I don't see how they can square that with Trump's payments to Cohen. Rudy Guiliani has already publicly stated that Trump reimbursed Cohen. So maybe they will go after him as well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... mp-stormy/

If the argument is that Trump was playing around with these woman and then Cohen, on his own initiative paid them off with no discussion of Trump re imbursing him, then the obvious question is 'why'?.

bennett123 wrote:

If the argument is that Trump was playing around with these woman and then Cohen, on his own initiative paid them off with no discussion of Trump re imbursing him, then the obvious question is 'why'?.

Cohen had stated that he would take a bullet for Trump, and was fiercely loyal to him. Until he was arrested and realized that Trump had used him, as he uses all the people around him.

Trump apparently knew this, as he had bragged that Cohen could never be flipped by the prosecution. He also sent Costello to tell Cohen he was loved, and had friends in high places. Until Cohen was convicted and subsequently agreed to testify against Trump.

The problem is that Trump reimbursed Cohen, so even if Cohen acted alone, Trump knew what he had done and paid him for it. I don't see how he gets around that. In Cohen's case, the prosecutors proved that he had done no work for the payments he received from Trump.

I'll be honest, I really don't care if Trump chased after women and paid them off. But the constant lying and denial of the truth, is what makes him vulnerable. As it always does. So I have no sympathy for him either.

I'd really rather see him get convicted of crimes against the public, related to his office, because that would preclude him from serving again. Hopefully that will happen eventually.

If he gets convicted of this, the GOP will howl that it's political and he's being persecuted. That is already well underway.

Here is an example of the fundraising Trump does against the crimes he commits. How people fall for this, is beyond me.

He asks people to sign a petition against his arrest. But if they click on the link, they are immediately asked to make a campaign contribution.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-a ... 2023-3?amp

Avatar2go wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

If the argument is that Trump was playing around with these woman and then Cohen, on his own initiative paid them off with no discussion of Trump re imbursing him, then the obvious question is 'why'?.

Cohen had stated that he would take a bullet for Trump, and was fiercely loyal to him. Until he was arrested and realized that Trump had used him, as he uses all the people around him.

Trump apparently knew this, as he had bragged that Cohen could never be flipped by the prosecution. He also sent Costello to tell Cohen he was loved, and had friends in high places. Until Cohen was convicted and subsequently agreed to testify against Trump.

The problem is that Trump reimbursed Cohen, so even if Cohen acted alone, Trump knew what he had done and paid him for it. I don't see how he gets around that. In Cohen's case, the prosecutors proved that he had done no work for the payments he received from Trump.

I'll be honest, I really don't care if Trump chased after women and paid them off. But the constant lying and denial of the truth, is what makes him vulnerable. As it always does. So I have no sympathy for him either.

I'd really rather see him get convicted of crimes against the public, related to his office, because that would preclude him from serving again. Hopefully that will happen eventually.

If he gets convicted of this, the GOP will howl that it's political and he's being persecuted. That is already well underway.

Bribery is illegal. I don't care that he chased her. Two adults, whatever. But the fact that there was hush money paid is the point. The party of "law and order" should be outraged the law was broken. Not to mention the fake outrage from the right after Bill Clinton was found to have diddled Monica Lewinsky. Where is that same level of outrage over these two?

Some protesters showed up:

https://twitter.com/CWittich/status/163 ... 02743.html

Can anyone understand what the gentleman with the vendetta mask is saying? Rather difficult to understand him with that mask…

N14AZ wrote:

Some protesters showed up:

https://twitter.com/CWittich/status/163 ... 02743.html

Can anyone understand what the gentleman with the vendetta mask is saying? Rather difficult to understand him with that mask…

A comedian went down to make sure he got seen on RSBN, it's really funny to watch the young kid's eyes as it dawns on him that he's being made fun of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAnIgzpwWl0

Alvin Bragg's DA office just sent a "Strongly Worded Letter" back to Jim Jordan and his false flag investigative commitee.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/2 ... e-00088520

Dubeck countered that the newly launched GOP probe is “an unprecedented inquiry into a pending local prosecution.” “The Letter only came after Donald Trump created a false expectation that he would be arrested the next day and his lawyers reportedly urged you to intervene. Neither fact is a legitimate basis for congressional inquiry,” she wrote.

The full letter is below.
https://twitter.com/AndrewSolender/stat ... 0345490433


Not that it will stop the ignorant member's of the GOP committee, but they just got slapped down hard by the DA's office in Manhatten, and rightfully so.

And now we see the predictable response to Trump's repeated calls to violence. I would think he could be charged with incitement for this, since he directly referenced Bragg in his comments. Trump is a menace to society.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/24/death-t ... rning.html

Avatar2go wrote:

And now we see the predictable response to Trump's repeated calls to violence. I would think he could be charged with incitement for this, since he directly referenced Bragg in his comments. Trump is a menace to society.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/24/death-t ... rning.html

Posted from Florida. Shocked, I tell you.

The Manhattan DA's Grand Jury hearings on the handling of the hush money to Ms. Daniels were not held after Monday this past week and it is most likely they will return next week. There is plenty of speculation as to why the delay. Maybe some sick jurors. A security breach or threats that is putting the DA's and Jury members at risk (like the terrorist threat letter to the head DA). A need of time to prepare the security needs when the Grand Jury concludes and if indicts Trump .A need to assess recent witness testimony. To prepare additional witnesses and' documents.

Of course, Trump supporters believe it is because the 'case if falling apart'. That it is possible the GJ will not vote to indict Trump or only on the lesser misnomer charge so the suspension is to 'save face'. That the investigation is a 'political witch hunt'. That Cohen's testimony has been undermined by testimony of his former counsel.

One possible reason suggested from some news-opinion reports why the Manhattan DA's case apparent suspension is the quickly moving Federal investigation and Grand Jury in the secret documents case. Perhaps the Federal Special Counsel asked the Manhattan DA to suspend his current Grand Jury case due to the possibly soon indictment of Trump on high level felony national security charges. Federal cases almost always take preference over local and state cases like for example with national security ones.

ltbewr wrote:

The Manhattan DA's Grand Jury hearings on the handling of the hush money to Ms. Daniels were not held after Monday this past week and it is most likely they will return next week. There is plenty of speculation as to why the delay. Maybe some sick jurors. A security breach or threats that is putting the DA's and Jury members at risk (like the terrorist threat letter to the head DA). A need of time to prepare the security needs when the Grand Jury concludes and if indicts Trump .A need to assess recent witness testimony. To prepare additional witnesses and' documents.

Of course, Trump supporters believe it is because the 'case if falling apart'. That it is possible the GJ will not vote to indict Trump or only on the lesser misnomer charge so the suspension is to 'save face'. That the investigation is a 'political witch hunt'. That Cohen's testimony has been undermined by testimony of his former counsel.

One possible reason suggested from some news-opinion reports why the Manhattan DA's case apparent suspension is the quickly moving Federal investigation and Grand Jury in the secret documents case. Perhaps the Federal Special Counsel asked the Manhattan DA to suspend his current Grand Jury case due to the possibly soon indictment of Trump on high level felony national security charges. Federal cases almost always take preference over local and state cases like for example with national security ones.

The whole thing was driven by Trump's social media post. Which was false, the DA confirmed that Trump was never informed that he would be arrested on Tuesday. It was just his usual attempt to make a stink and gain control of the public narrative.

A certain percentage of the population will fall for this, every time. Trump knows that perfectly well. If he can get them all outraged, screaming, making demands & false assertions, that's what he wants. The more chaos, the better for him.

Avatar2go wrote:

The whole thing was driven by Trump's social media post.

Can you imagine doing a real estate deal with this guy?
After spending weeks or months of your time and re-arranging your life around a deal, you know that at the last moment Trump would have a surprise and you will be screwed, if not bigtime then at least smalltime. And he will do it every time.

And the MAGA creeps admire this kind of a man.

Avatar2go wrote:

ltbewr wrote:

The Manhattan DA's Grand Jury hearings on the handling of the hush money to Ms. Daniels were not held after Monday this past week and it is most likely they will return next week. There is plenty of speculation as to why the delay. Maybe some sick jurors. A security breach or threats that is putting the DA's and Jury members at risk (like the terrorist threat letter to the head DA). A need of time to prepare the security needs when the Grand Jury concludes and if indicts Trump .A need to assess recent witness testimony. To prepare additional witnesses and' documents.

Of course, Trump supporters believe it is because the 'case if falling apart'. That it is possible the GJ will not vote to indict Trump or only on the lesser misnomer charge so the suspension is to 'save face'. That the investigation is a 'political witch hunt'. That Cohen's testimony has been undermined by testimony of his former counsel.

One possible reason suggested from some news-opinion reports why the Manhattan DA's case apparent suspension is the quickly moving Federal investigation and Grand Jury in the secret documents case. Perhaps the Federal Special Counsel asked the Manhattan DA to suspend his current Grand Jury case due to the possibly soon indictment of Trump on high level felony national security charges. Federal cases almost always take preference over local and state cases like for example with national security ones.

The whole thing was driven by Trump's social media post. Which was false, the DA confirmed that Trump was never informed that he would be arrested on Tuesday. It was just his usual attempt to make a stink and gain control of the public narrative.

A certain percentage of the population will fall for this, every time. Trump knows that perfectly well. If he can get them all outraged, screaming, making demands & false assertions, that's what he wants. The more chaos, the better for him.

He even had House Republicans demand all the files on his behalf

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opi ... -rcna76220
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/manhat ... ion-arrest

This could be seen as tampering with an investigation.

The Grand Jury in NYC looking at possible crimes with the Stormy Daniels payout won't be doing anything for at least a month. A planned hiatus due to the religious holy days (Passover, Easter, Orthodox Easter) some jurors to take planned holidays and maybe to give the DA's office more time to organize witnesses and testimony or do other important cases means justice delayed is justice denied. I hope the Federal Special Counsel's investigations come to a result to indict Trump as to the stolen secret documents very soon.
https://www.salon.com/2023/03/29/thats- ... ndictment/

ltbewr wrote:

The Grand Jury in NYC looking at possible crimes with the Stormy Daniels payout won't be doing anything for at least a month. A planned hiatus due to the religious holy days (Passover, Easter, Orthodox Easter) some jurors to take planned holidays and maybe to give the DA's office more time to organize witnesses and testimony or do other important cases means justice delayed is justice denied. I hope the Federal Special Counsel's investigations come to a result to indict Trump as to the stolen secret documents very soon.
https://www.salon.com/2023/03/29/thats- ... ndictment/

This is just speculation, but it may be they will go for the federal indictments first, for Jan 6 and Mar-a-Lago, as they would be much stronger cases and less vulnerable to Trump whining that he's being persecuted.

As things stand now, many of his followers believe Trump faced down the Manhattan DA, since Trump said he would be arrested and then he wasn't. They will believe anything Trump tells them.

I have no idea if there is a hierarchy of cases or how they decide which prosecutor gets to go first or if it is simply happenstance who is ready first.

But… Don and Stormy is like Bill and Monica. At the end of the day not all that many people care all that much. Just the usual loudmouths on both sides.

$130,000 in hush money is barely a ripple in the oceans of money that get spent in presidential campaigns. It may be illegal but in the great scheme of things it’s not that big a deal. Why fish for minnows when there are tuna and swordfish swimming about?

QF7 wrote:

I have no idea if there is a hierarchy of cases or how they decide which prosecutor gets to go first or if it is simply happenstance who is ready first.

I don't think there is a hierarchy, but I do think prosecutors talk to each other about possible interaction or interference between their cases.

For example in the Dennis Hastert case, he was charged with financial crimes like Trump, but then his illicit activity with underage boys weighed heavily in that case. It's unavoidable for high profile cases.

In Trump's case, he has openly defied the law, and has shown zero remorse or apology for doing so, despite being demonstrably guilty of the things that have generated investigations. He did violate finance and campaign finance law, he did claim ownership of classified & government documents, and he did try to overturn the 2020 election. But he is always careful to have his attorneys take those actions for him, which gives him deniability. And is why his attorneys have regularly taken the fall, instead of him.

He complains that he has a target on his back with prosecutors, but if so, he placed it there himself. Thus prosecutors are going to be very careful to mitigate his usual evasive tactics and defenses, and they will work together to do that, sharing their knowledge and evidence as required.

The irony is that he has taken on an organized crime boss aura, that justifies those actions. Then points to that with his followers, as persecution.

I've mentioned that he learned this from Roy Cohn, who among other things, said that anyone who pays taxes were suckers. Trump said that not paying taxes made him smart. He learned well. Cohn openly defied the law for most of his life, but also knew how to get away with it. We will see if his star pupil is also able to do so.

QF7 wrote:

I have no idea if there is a hierarchy of cases or how they decide which prosecutor gets to go first or if it is simply happenstance who is ready first.

But… Don and Stormy is like Bill and Monica. At the end of the day not all that many people care all that much. Just the usual loudmouths on both sides.

$130,000 in hush money is barely a ripple in the oceans of money that get spent in presidential campaigns. It may be illegal but in the great scheme of things it’s not that big a deal. Why fish for minnows when there are tuna and swordfish swimming about?

Clinton and Monica are nothing at all in any way like this case. Zero money was passed from Clinton attorneys to Monica. Bill denied having sexual relations with that woman under oath, and that is something he needed to be held accountable for. We all agree on that. In Stormy's case, who was under oath and lied? And there is evidence that financial transactions took place.

A bribe is a bribe is a bribe. And it is illegal. I would think this would be important for the party of law and order.

seb146 wrote:

Clinton and Monica are nothing at all in any way like this case. Zero money was passed from Clinton attorneys to Monica. Bill denied having sexual relations with that woman under oath, and that is something he needed to be held accountable for. We all agree on that. In Stormy's case, who was under oath and lied? And there is evidence that financial transactions took place.

A bribe is a bribe is a bribe. And it is illegal. I would think this would be important for the party of law and order.

I get your point and legalistically you are correct. But the average Joe or Juanita on the streets looks at both instances as little more than indiscretions that the guy tried to cover up. The rest is details. Millions of people have been in the same boat and if they haven’t been caught they know that they could have been. And even if they haven’t personally done it, they’re not all that worked up about someone else doing it.

Driving faster than the speed limit is illegal but most people have broken those laws multiple times and aren’t going to judge someone else very harshly for doing so. Not the same thing of course, but same principle.

As to bribery, people sign non-disclosure agreements every day of the week in exchange for various forms of consideration. No matter how obvious it might be to you and me that this one was done for illegal purposes, the prosecutor hasn’t even charged it yet let alone obtained a conviction. Even if he does lots of people are going to shrug and go on about their daily business.

All I’m saying is, however this ends up this is not the scandal that is going to take down Trump. The other ones might be.

As of late Thursday, an attorney for Donald Trump has said that the Grand Jury in Manhattan, NYC has indicted Trump in the Stormy Daniels payoff case. The indictment is sealed, details, including if a felony or misnomer charge are not yet disclosed. I expect Trump to go totally nuclear on his social media and his supporters going crazy. It is very good news as to Justice, but it is sad too. He is still supposed to be considered innocent until proven or pleas guilty. I hope he has to appear at the court for his arraignment and arrest, have to turn over his passport, he will of course be released without bail although I would love to have him jailed until trial. The indictment could seriously affect his financial circumstances. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... 8093d&ei=6

Here is a good article on how the hush money case against Trump was developed. This is important in view of the Republican claims that it's politically motivated.

The prior Manhattan DA, Cyrus Vance, had three Trump-related investigations underway. The first was the tax fraud case against the Trump Organization. The second was a case against Trump for falsifying his net worth. The third was the hush money case. Vance decided to focus resources on the first two cases, but the third was never actually closed.

When Alvin Bragg took over as DA, he pursued and won the first tax fraud case. But within his office, skeptics raised doubts about the second case on net worth. The chief witness was Trump's former attorney Michael Cohen, and investigators questioned whether he had sufficient access to Trump's financial dealings to be reliable, as he had not been a direct participant. Also there were only two weeks remaining for that grand jury. Therefore Bragg decided to drop that case, which caused the lead prosecutors to resign in frustration.

Bragg then took a second look at the hush money case, and decided to continue that investigation. They took a new deposition from Cohen, subpoenaed his phone and financial records, and began following the money trail. Out of that came several more subpoenas for financial records, including for the women who had been paid off, as well as for the National Enquirer, which had routed the payments from Cohen to the women.

As the investigative leads panned out and the case built momentum, Bragg empaneled a grand jury in late 2022, and began to present witnesses. Among them were Cohen, Daniels, their attorneys, former Trump aides including KellyAnne Conway & Hope Hicks, and David Pecker who was the former publisher of the Enquirer.

So this was a long-standing investigation that finally had sufficient resources devoted to it, by dropping the net worth case. Rather than being a political whim.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/31/nyre ... ation.html

Trump has already made his traditional claim that the judge appointed to his case hates him, is biased, and is out to get him. Also that the DA judge-shopped and hand-picked the judge.

None of which is true, the judge is randomly selected and Judge Merchan in particular is known for his fairness and even temperament. But since he was also the judge in the Trump Organization tax fraud case, which Trump lost, Trump is convinced otherwise.

It will be interesting to see if Trump files motions demanding that the judge recuse himself.

https://news.yahoo.com/whos-judge-juan- ... 23023.html

Avatar2go wrote:

Here is a good article on how the hush money case against Trump was developed. This is important in view of the Republican claims that it's politically motivated.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/31/nyre ... ation.html

It is politically motivated. Alvin is an elected official. Every decision he makes has some degree of political consideration baked into it. In this case it's a significant degree. The reason for that is all down to Trump. He paints the target on his back as he runs his mouth insulting every person and institution in his field of vision. He doesn't know when to shut up and he doesn't stop. He engenders this intense focus on his person so that even when a politically motivated DA like Bragg has a thousand choices per day on where to focus his budget, team and energy, the choice gets so much easier with Trump on the list. A thousand other potential criminals have no doubt committed much worse crimes, but none of them insults and taunts the system the way Trump does. It's his essential character flaw and very likely the one that's kept him from even greater achievement, including a second term. It may very well land him in prison. He brings this on himself, and in the process he brings the entire Republican Party, his voters and this country closer to his level of depravity, lies and filth. He's nothing but a vicious, malignant cancer. He and his entire family ending up penniless would be a just result for what he's done to the United States.

I actually think Cyrus Vance undertook the Trump investigations, because Michael Cohen turned on Trump, and provided a wealth of information about his activities.

At one point, Cohen was fiercely loyal to Trump, willing to do anything for him, including risk his career, his home, and his family. Which he did. Trump was convinced of this as well, he famously stated that Cohen would never turn on him.

When Cohen was indicted for facilitating illegal activities on Trump's behalf, Trump sent his attorney to assure Cohen that he'd be looked after, that he had friends in high places. That was essentially a cue to Cohen to keep quiet and take the fall.

However Cohen eventually came to his senses, and realized Trump had used him, and hung him out to dry. He lost everything because of his absolute faith and loyalty to Trump. Which in the end, was worth absolutely nothing.

At that point he made it his mission to work with the government to expose Trump, and he was heavily involved in all three investigations.

If you are the DA, and Trump's former lawyer is handing you the goods on him, having already served time because of him, then you'd be remiss to not follow up on that.

wingman wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

Here is a good article on how the hush money case against Trump was developed. This is important in view of the Republican claims that it's politically motivated.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/31/nyre ... ation.html

It is politically motivated. Alvin is an elected official. Every decision he makes has some degree of political consideration baked into it. In this case it's a significant degree. The reason for that is all down to Trump. He paints the target on his back as he runs his mouth insulting every person and institution in his field of vision. He doesn't know when to shut up and he doesn't stop. He engenders this intense focus on his person so that even when a politically motivated DA like Bragg has a thousand choices per day on where to focus his budget, team and energy, the choice gets so much easier with Trump on the list. A thousand other potential criminals have no doubt committed much worse crimes, but none of them insults and taunts the system the way Trump does. It's his essential character flaw and very likely the one that's kept him from even greater achievement, including a second term. It may very well land him in prison. He brings this on himself, and in the process he brings the entire Republican Party, his voters and this country closer to his level of depravity, lies and filth. He's nothing but a vicious, malignant cancer. He and his entire family ending up penniless would be a just result for what he's done to the United States.

How do we know Bragg is not also going after other worse criminals?

seb146 wrote:

wingman wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

Here is a good article on how the hush money case against Trump was developed. This is important in view of the Republican claims that it's politically motivated.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/31/nyre ... ation.html

It is politically motivated. Alvin is an elected official. Every decision he makes has some degree of political consideration baked into it. In this case it's a significant degree. The reason for that is all down to Trump. He paints the target on his back as he runs his mouth insulting every person and institution in his field of vision. He doesn't know when to shut up and he doesn't stop. He engenders this intense focus on his person so that even when a politically motivated DA like Bragg has a thousand choices per day on where to focus his budget, team and energy, the choice gets so much easier with Trump on the list. A thousand other potential criminals have no doubt committed much worse crimes, but none of them insults and taunts the system the way Trump does. It's his essential character flaw and very likely the one that's kept him from even greater achievement, including a second term. It may very well land him in prison. He brings this on himself, and in the process he brings the entire Republican Party, his voters and this country closer to his level of depravity, lies and filth. He's nothing but a vicious, malignant cancer. He and his entire family ending up penniless would be a just result for what he's done to the United States.

How do we know Bragg is not also going after other worse criminals?

Bragg's office goes after Tons of Criminals, but in this case, he already passed on one case for lack of evidence.

So he is meticulous about his cased. He was one of the ones that got the Trump Foundation dissolved for campaign finance violations.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/manhattan-da- ... d=97989545

It was in this role that Bragg first went up against Trump in a legal setting, when he led the office's prosecution against the Trump Foundation for "extensive unlawful political conduct" with the charity's money and using it for personal matters. The foundation was dissolved and Trump was forced to pay $2 million as part of a settlement.