Governor Abbott and friends showing their Christian Christmas spirit, by dropping off migrants at the VP residence on Christmas Eve, in 18F weather.

Fortunately the DC aid organizations are expecting bad behavior from our MAGA brethren, and are prepared to welcome them.

Takes a special kind of individual to put political stunts ahead of people's basic welfare.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/24/politics ... index.html

Nothing says "I'm serious about this problem" like dumping it on somebody else's doorstep, after all.

Ah, yes, using human beings as pawns for political stunts. On Christmas.
What else would we expect from the merchants of anger and discord?

"And his heart shrunk three sizes that day".

Seriously, this is like being back in junior school, wtf is wrong with people.

jetwet1 wrote:

Seriously, this is like being back in junior school, wtf is wrong with people.

We’ll they are pandering to folks with the intelligence of junior high schoolers so it’s hardly surprising.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The recurring theme with all of them, seems to be the contradiction between their professed values, and their actions.

The lack of Federal legislation action to develop comprehensive and fair immigration policy, the USA's policies for over 140 years in Mexico, Central and South America, the Caribbean, the demand for illegal drugs, as well as climate change has led to decades of millions of persons in those countries seeking personal safety and economic security by migrating to the USA, including entry illegally and despite the dangers. While the border states should not have to take all the social and taxpayer's cost burden of them, these stunt relocations for political points making is not the way to do it. We need massive increases in the administration of the asylum process, fair methods of distribution of these migrants, humane polices, find ways to make it so people don't have to leave their countries in the first place. The 'blue' states already have millions of migrants living in them with their costs to taxpayers, stress on public and health services, lack of affordable and safe housing, exploitation of their labor.

It's not not just causes that Itbewr has listed. How many millions of students or visitors who had the wherewithal to fly here just overstay their visa? IMO It's because the Western economic model and rule of law is appealing to many compared to where they are from.

"Find a new job in 60 days: tech layoffs put immigrant workers on a ticking clock" https://www.npr.org/2022/12/08/11414020 ... find-a-job. How many of these folks will not self deport?

As I've noted numerous times before, there are probably a hundreds of millions of people that would move to the US, Canada and Europe if given a chance.

Just one of many stories -
‘I want freedom’: One man’s escape from zero-Covid China to seek his American dream" https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/17/china/ch ... index.html

IMO There needs to be a limit or all the negatives you listed will just spread to other states.
And putting a limit on numbers is a conversation Progressive's just don't want to have.

Their values are white power, Republican (kill)science, and a fascist version of Christianity.

Avatar2go wrote:

Takes a special kind of individual to put political stunts ahead of people's basic welfare.

Allowing MILLIONS of illegals to invade a sovereign state is the most egregious violation of people's basic welfare.

ObadiahPlainman wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

Takes a special kind of individual to put political stunts ahead of people's basic welfare.

Allowing MILLIONS of illegals to invade a sovereign state is the most egregious violation of people's basic welfare.

Millions huh, interested to see the data to back this claim up. Please provide a source for it so I may peruse the data and article accompanying it. Thanks!

Just like the last few times Gov. Abbott did this, some of these immigrants have hearings in Texas to determine if they are eligible for an asylum hearing. Now they are thousands of miles from the court they are supposed to appear in and will probably miss their hearing. But, I suppose this is what happened to another immigrant family roughly 2000 years ago. Do unto others, as the verse goes....

CaptHadley wrote:

ObadiahPlainman wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

Takes a special kind of individual to put political stunts ahead of people's basic welfare.

Allowing MILLIONS of illegals to invade a sovereign state is the most egregious violation of people's basic welfare.

Millions huh, interested to see the data to back this claim up. Please provide a source for it so I may peruse the data and article accompanying it. Thanks!

So you think unlimited amounts of people from other countries streaming across our border is sustainable? Shipping migrants up to the residence of the VP or NYC or Martha's vineyard might be a political stunt. But obviously it is going to take something to get this attention of this pathetic administration. Say what want about Trump but the message to fence jumpers was clear . You are not going to have it easy if you come here illegally and try to cross our border. Trump also sent a message to Mexico that you better help us with this or we are going to slap tariffs on you until the cows come home. Mexico got the message fast. Now Biden comes in an unravels all that and lays out a welcome mat for anyone who wants to come here and now the southern border is overwhelmed more than ever and Biden won't even go there and see the mess he created. Anyone who thinks this isn't a major problem is a special kind of stupid.

stratosphere wrote:

CaptHadley wrote:

ObadiahPlainman wrote:

Allowing MILLIONS of illegals to invade a sovereign state is the most egregious violation of people's basic welfare.

Millions huh, interested to see the data to back this claim up. Please provide a source for it so I may peruse the data and article accompanying it. Thanks!

So you think unlimited amounts of people from other countries streaming across our border is sustainable? Shipping migrants up to the residence of the VP or NYC or Martha's vineyard might be a political stunt. But obviously it is going to take something to get this attention of this pathetic administration. Say what want about Trump but the message to fence jumpers was clear . You are not going to have it easy if you come here illegally and try to cross our border. Trump also sent a message to Mexico that you better help us with this or we are going to slap tariffs on you until the cows come home. Mexico got the message fast. Now Biden comes in an unravels all that and lays out a welcome mat for anyone who wants to come here and now the southern border is overwhelmed more than ever and Biden won't even go there and see the mess he created. Anyone who thinks this isn't a major problem is a special kind of stupid.

From a purely economic perspective, we could easily continue net migration at a significantly higher rate than it is today, likely for decades, and only reap the benefits of solving a low-wage labor shortage, among other things.

Immigration is not out of control in this country, it's stupid. We tell people to come get educated in this country, bilk them for their money, and then give them no viable path to stay if they're Chinese or Indian, because their chances of a visa in a lottery is absurdly small. We have a sick, anemic, broken quota immigration system that is racist and does not serve the immigrant or the citizen.

Of course don't let that in the way of the reflexive xenophobia that turns out voters...

stratosphere wrote:

CaptHadley wrote:

ObadiahPlainman wrote:

Allowing MILLIONS of illegals to invade a sovereign state is the most egregious violation of people's basic welfare.

Millions huh, interested to see the data to back this claim up. Please provide a source for it so I may peruse the data and article accompanying it. Thanks!

So you think unlimited amounts of people from other countries streaming across our border is sustainable? Shipping migrants up to the residence of the VP or NYC or Martha's vineyard might be a political stunt. But obviously it is going to take something to get this attention of this pathetic administration. Say what want about Trump but the message to fence jumpers was clear . You are not going to have it easy if you come here illegally and try to cross our border. Trump also sent a message to Mexico that you better help us with this or we are going to slap tariffs on you until the cows come home. Mexico got the message fast. Now Biden comes in an unravels all that and lays out a welcome mat for anyone who wants to come here and now the southern border is overwhelmed more than ever and Biden won't even go there and see the mess he created. Anyone who thinks this isn't a major problem is a special kind of stupid.

Migrants were "streaming across our border" during previous Republican administrations, too. Yet, nothing was done then. Why? Two years of full Republican control and nothing on immigration was done. Oh, wait.... part of a wall (that collapsed) was kinda built...

stratosphere wrote:

CaptHadley wrote:

ObadiahPlainman wrote:

Allowing MILLIONS of illegals to invade a sovereign state is the most egregious violation of people's basic welfare.

Millions huh, interested to see the data to back this claim up. Please provide a source for it so I may peruse the data and article accompanying it. Thanks!

So you think unlimited amounts of people from other countries streaming across our border is sustainable? Shipping migrants up to the residence of the VP or NYC or Martha's vineyard might be a political stunt. But obviously it is going to take something to get this attention of this pathetic administration. Say what want about Trump but the message to fence jumpers was clear . You are not going to have it easy if you come here illegally and try to cross our border. Trump also sent a message to Mexico that you better help us with this or we are going to slap tariffs on you until the cows come home. Mexico got the message fast. Now Biden comes in an unravels all that and lays out a welcome mat for anyone who wants to come here and now the southern border is overwhelmed more than ever and Biden won't even go there and see the mess he created. Anyone who thinks this isn't a major problem is a special kind of stupid.

Thank you for your recent diatribe. Again, I would love to see the data and source for the data so I may enjoy reading it. I'm sure you have it, right?

dmg626 wrote:

She’s a very compassionate person and is in charge of the problem at the border, I hope she invited them in for holiday treats

Yes she is and i'm sure they were accommodated. So what's your point?

Newark727 wrote:

Nothing says "I'm serious about this problem" like dumping it on somebody else's doorstep, after all.

Its not dumping the problem on some else's doorstep. It because of Biden/Harris open border policy. Had we stayed with Trump, his policies and finished the wall we would not have this problem. Instead it's now easier to sneak into the USA across the border then it is to sneak into Costco without a membership. Perhaps we should start to deputize armed private citizens to guard and secure the border since the Biden administration refuses to do so.

2.3 million on FY 2022.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sout ... encounters

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

Newark727 wrote:

Nothing says "I'm serious about this problem" like dumping it on somebody else's doorstep, after all.

Its not dumping the problem on some else's doorstep. It because of Biden/Harris open border policy. Had we stayed with Trump, his policies and finished the wall we would not have this problem. Instead it's now easier to sneak into the USA across the border then it is to sneak into Costco without a membership. Perhaps we should start to deputize armed private citizens to guard and secure the border since the Biden administration refuses to do so.

Again: It is Republicans screaming about "open borders" and not Biden/Harris and Democrats. Please keep these facts straight. Republicans keep shouting this but it is simply not true. Not one word of it.

Also, if Border Patrol is making more arrests, could it be they are actually being funded and more agents are out along the border? Or is it simply the lie Republicans keep parroting?

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

Newark727 wrote:

Nothing says "I'm serious about this problem" like dumping it on somebody else's doorstep, after all.

Its not dumping the problem on some else's doorstep. It because of Biden/Harris open border policy. Had we stayed with Trump, his policies and finished the wall we would not have this problem. Instead it's now easier to sneak into the USA across the border then it is to sneak into Costco without a membership. Perhaps we should start to deputize armed private citizens to guard and secure the border since the Biden administration refuses to do so.

‘Open border policy’ is a fake hyperemotional narrative. Open border policy would actually mean zero-item budgeting for CBP enforcement or stand-down orders. Neither are reality. For the last full fiscal year data set in 2021, there were 1.7 million apprehensions and 1.2 million expulsions. Perhaps you would prefer 0? I think not!

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-m ... statistics

Also missing from this discussion in right wing circles online is any humanitarian concern for the people in Abbott’s stunt. The cruelty is the point.

For both parties, it’s a great hammer to beat the other side with, not worth losing by actually fixing the problem. See entitlement funding and gun control for other examples.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

For both parties, it’s a great hammer to beat the other side with, not worth losing by actually fixing the problem. See entitlement funding and gun control for other examples.

Precisely why there has been no grand compromise reform since the Reagan deal in 1986. And the most liberal Dems went after Clinton for enhanced enforcement on IIRIRA in 1996.

Blaming illegal immigrants for woes in a society is a tactic as old as time.

The Simpsons parodied this perfectly:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Much_Apu_About_Nothing

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

2.3 million on FY 2022.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sout ... encounters

Important here to distinguish encounters from admissions. A significant fraction of encounters are summarily expelled. Another large fraction are apprehended, and then deported after their administrative hearings.

The two groups that are generally admitted in an expedited process, are families with children, and unescorted minors that have existing family in the US. Single adults that make credible claims of asylum, are admitted temporarily until their hearings.

Another factor is that the summarily expelled are almost entirely single adults. More than half of those now are not Mexican citizens, which means when they are expelled, Mexico doesn't want them either. So they try again and again to enter the US, because that is the most humane and best option they have. This inflates the encounter numbers, as it's the same individuals, again and again.

Part of the issue here is that the statistics being quoted don't engender a true understanding of the problem. The flow of people can't be understood without demographics and the various sourcing & processing paths. This leads to both sides proposing simplistic solutions, to match their simplistic understanding.

There are reasons why this problem has not been easy to solve, not only in the US but across Europe as well. It requires a broad approach to solution, and cooperation between countries. As well as a blend of humanitarianism in establishing fair rules, followed by significant enforcement of those rules.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

2.3 million on FY 2022.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sout ... encounters

That’s an enormous jump from the 460k in 2020, and a few more than the 1.7m in 2021. How can this be sustainable?

Kiwirob wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

2.3 million on FY 2022.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sout ... encounters

That’s an enormous jump from the 460k in 2020, and a few more than the 1.7m in 2021. How can this be sustainable?

To be accurate, the jump began in January 2019, to just under 1M, before Title 42. 2020 was an anomaly due to introduction of Title 42, as well as Mexican restrictions at their southern border. As the pandemic has lessened, the rate has picked up again.

Avatar2go wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

2.3 million on FY 2022.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sout ... encounters

Important here to distinguish encounters from admissions. A significant fraction of encounters are summarily expelled. Another large fraction are apprehended, and then deported after their administrative hearings.

The two groups that are generally admitted in an expedited process, are families with children, and unescorted minors that have existing family in the US. Single adults that make credible claims of asylum, are admitted temporarily until their hearings.

Another factor is that the summarily expelled are almost entirely single adults. More than half of those now are not Mexican citizens, which means when they are expelled, Mexico doesn't want them either. So they try again and again to enter the US, because that is the most humane and best option they have. This inflates the encounter numbers, as it's the same individuals, again and again.

Part of the issue here is that the statistics being quoted don't engender a true understanding of the problem. The flow of people can't be understood without demographics and the various sourcing & processing paths. This leads to both sides proposing simplistic solutions, to match their simplistic understanding.

There are reasons why this problem has not been easy to solve, not only in the US but across Europe as well. It requires a broad approach to solution, and cooperation between countries. As well as a blend of humanitarianism in establishing fair rules, followed by significant enforcement of those rules.

And the problem as a body politic is Joe Schmo is not interested in the nuances of such a complex topic - they want to distill everything into emotionally acceptable pablum like ‘they should come legally or not at all’.

This is the problem with politics, too many stupid stunts and hyperbole and not enough boring but competent people in the job.

Instead they all seem to be a bunch of cranks. This is an observation of modern politics in geberal, or one side or another so don’t feel the need to hot the report post button…

Avatar2go wrote:

The recurring theme with all of them, seems to be the contradiction between their professed values, and their actions.

For them, saying they are Christian is an exercise in branding. The brand feels comfortable so they adopt it. Following its strictures, even the basic ones like "love each other as I have loved you" was never a part of the program for them. The ones that actually go to church just want to dress up nice on Sunday morning and be seen by others. Then they sit in the pew and take in nothing that's being said to them. It's a giant exercise in right wing virtue signalling.

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

Its not dumping the problem on some else's doorstep. It because of Biden/Harris open border policy. Had we stayed with Trump, his policies and finished the wall we would not have this problem. Instead it's now easier to sneak into the USA across the border then it is to sneak into Costco without a membership. Perhaps we should start to deputize armed private citizens to guard and secure the border since the Biden administration refuses to do so.

Nonsense. Trump had two years of control of both House and Senate, and even with all this behind him he accomplished nothing because none of his plans made sense to even the Republican majority. Nothing he was proposing could have been put into practice.

"The Wall" ended up being a tiny prototype which proved that it made no sense to move forward with it. This is the reality that anyone who looks the problem with intelligence instead of emotion will find. The border is thousands of miles long, one small gap renders all the work useless, some parts can't be built because they run right through the middle of cities, the wall can be tunneled under (ask the Israelis about Gaza), the amount of money it'd take to build it would be enormous.

The reality is that it is far easier to defend the entrance of Costco than it is to defend the US border, and the concept of "The Wall" is not workable.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

For both parties, it’s a great hammer to beat the other side with, not worth losing by actually fixing the problem. See entitlement funding and gun control for other examples.

Exactly--if either side was interested in truly addressing immigration, there have been plenty of opportunities. But better for political point scoring, fundraising, and campaigning to have the immigration (or entitlement or gun control) problem to beat the other side with. Unfortunately.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

Blaming illegal immigrants for woes in a society is a tactic as old as time.

The Simpsons parodied this perfectly:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Much_Apu_About_Nothing

Even legal immigrants. Anyone who has read about time before WW1 when the Eastern European "Hunkies" were blamed for unrest in the coal mines and steel mills. They weren't "real Americans". The Italians were also lumped in with them. What was funny was that they were brought in because wage demands of Anglo workers were thought excessive and they thought that immigrants would be more pliable.

CaptHadley wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

CaptHadley wrote:

Millions huh, interested to see the data to back this claim up. Please provide a source for it so I may peruse the data and article accompanying it. Thanks!

So you think unlimited amounts of people from other countries streaming across our border is sustainable? Shipping migrants up to the residence of the VP or NYC or Martha's vineyard might be a political stunt. But obviously it is going to take something to get this attention of this pathetic administration. Say what want about Trump but the message to fence jumpers was clear . You are not going to have it easy if you come here illegally and try to cross our border. Trump also sent a message to Mexico that you better help us with this or we are going to slap tariffs on you until the cows come home. Mexico got the message fast. Now Biden comes in an unravels all that and lays out a welcome mat for anyone who wants to come here and now the southern border is overwhelmed more than ever and Biden won't even go there and see the mess he created. Anyone who thinks this isn't a major problem is a special kind of stupid.

Thank you for your recent diatribe. Again, I would love to see the data and source for the data so I may enjoy reading it. I'm sure you have it, right?

Take your head out of the sand. I don't have to provide even a link just turn the channel off CNN and MSNBC since they only talk about Jan 6th and Trump 24/7 . Turn on FOX or Newsmax and just look at the videos of the thousands of people crossing the border daily. But I will post a link which I am sure you will ignore.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 58734.html

stratosphere wrote:

CaptHadley wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

So you think unlimited amounts of people from other countries streaming across our border is sustainable? Shipping migrants up to the residence of the VP or NYC or Martha's vineyard might be a political stunt. But obviously it is going to take something to get this attention of this pathetic administration. Say what want about Trump but the message to fence jumpers was clear . You are not going to have it easy if you come here illegally and try to cross our border. Trump also sent a message to Mexico that you better help us with this or we are going to slap tariffs on you until the cows come home. Mexico got the message fast. Now Biden comes in an unravels all that and lays out a welcome mat for anyone who wants to come here and now the southern border is overwhelmed more than ever and Biden won't even go there and see the mess he created. Anyone who thinks this isn't a major problem is a special kind of stupid.

Thank you for your recent diatribe. Again, I would love to see the data and source for the data so I may enjoy reading it. I'm sure you have it, right?

Take your head out of the sand. I don't have to provide even a link just turn the channel off CNN and MSNBC since they only talk about Jan 6th and Trump 24/7 . Turn on FOX or Newsmax and just look at the videos of the thousands of people crossing the border daily. But I will post a link which I am sure you will ignore.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 58734.html

From FAIR, which, despite the name, has had significant ties to the KKK and white supremacist groups, per SPLC:
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... ion-reform

Revelation wrote:

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

Its not dumping the problem on some else's doorstep. It because of Biden/Harris open border policy. Had we stayed with Trump, his policies and finished the wall we would not have this problem. Instead it's now easier to sneak into the USA across the border then it is to sneak into Costco without a membership. Perhaps we should start to deputize armed private citizens to guard and secure the border since the Biden administration refuses to do so.

Nonsense. Trump had two years of control of both House and Senate, and even with all this behind him he accomplished nothing because none of his plans made sense to even the Republican majority. Nothing he was proposing could have been put into practice.

"The Wall" ended up being a tiny prototype which proved that it made no sense to move forward with it. This is the reality that anyone who looks the problem with intelligence instead of emotion will find. The border is thousands of miles long, one small gap renders all the work useless, some parts can't be built because they run right through the middle of cities, the wall can be tunneled under (ask the Israelis about Gaza), the amount of money it'd take to build it would be enormous.

The reality is that it is far easier to defend the entrance of Costco than it is to defend the US border, and the concept of "The Wall" is not workable.

To be clear..BOTH parties hands are dirty when it comes to this crisis. Republicans once had full control of all houses and then the Democrats. No one wants to address this issue of immigration reform. It should not take 10 years to go thru the legal entry process. Our asylum laws are in drastic need of reform as well. No other country on this planet would allow what is happening at our southern border in their country. But other countries like Canada like to tell us what to do but just like the liberal sanctuary cities in our country they have a cow when the problem shows up on their doorstep.

bluecrew wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

CaptHadley wrote:

Thank you for your recent diatribe. Again, I would love to see the data and source for the data so I may enjoy reading it. I'm sure you have it, right?

Take your head out of the sand. I don't have to provide even a link just turn the channel off CNN and MSNBC since they only talk about Jan 6th and Trump 24/7 . Turn on FOX or Newsmax and just look at the videos of the thousands of people crossing the border daily. But I will post a link which I am sure you will ignore.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 58734.html

From FAIR, which, despite the name, has had significant ties to the KKK and white supremacist groups, per SPLC:
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... ion-reform

So ? Does that make this article not true?

Revelation, to quote him, the wall can be tunneled under

“The reality is that it is far easier to defend the entrance of Costco than it is to defend the US border, and the concept of "The Wall" is not workable.”


…and over….and through…..or simple pulled down…..blown up…..what else am I missing?

stratosphere wrote:

To be clear..BOTH parties hands are dirty when it comes to this crisis.

One party is guilty of escalating the rhetoric (not to mention the childish stunts) which doesn't help drive the situation towards resolution.

One party has made this into a "litmus test" which means no honest resolution can be reached since no ground can be given.

They made the bed, they're sleeping in it.

stratosphere wrote:

Republicans once had full control of all houses and then the Democrats. No one wants to address this issue of immigration reform. It should not take 10 years to go thru the legal entry process. Our asylum laws are in drastic need of reform as well. No other country on this planet would allow what is happening at our southern border in their country. But other countries like Canada like to tell us what to do but just like the liberal sanctuary cities in our country they have a cow when the problem shows up on their doorstep.

I think the "no other country" rhetoric is excessive.

Lots of countries have massive immigration problems, for instance the UK and pretty much every country on the border of the EU.

It's the normal outcome when a country is a desirable place to be, that people want to immigrate to that country, and its citizens resent that.

Yet everyone in the US who isn't Native American is an immigrant or a descendant of immigrants, that's how this country was built.

The only path to resolution is through compromise, yet that's just not possible in the current US political climate, IMO.

stratosphere wrote:

CaptHadley wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

So you think unlimited amounts of people from other countries streaming across our border is sustainable? Shipping migrants up to the residence of the VP or NYC or Martha's vineyard might be a political stunt. But obviously it is going to take something to get this attention of this pathetic administration. Say what want about Trump but the message to fence jumpers was clear . You are not going to have it easy if you come here illegally and try to cross our border. Trump also sent a message to Mexico that you better help us with this or we are going to slap tariffs on you until the cows come home. Mexico got the message fast. Now Biden comes in an unravels all that and lays out a welcome mat for anyone who wants to come here and now the southern border is overwhelmed more than ever and Biden won't even go there and see the mess he created. Anyone who thinks this isn't a major problem is a special kind of stupid.

Thank you for your recent diatribe. Again, I would love to see the data and source for the data so I may enjoy reading it. I'm sure you have it, right?

Take your head out of the sand. I don't have to provide even a link just turn the channel off CNN and MSNBC since they only talk about Jan 6th and Trump 24/7 . Turn on FOX or Newsmax and just look at the videos of the thousands of people crossing the border daily. But I will post a link which I am sure you will ignore.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 58734.html

Yes, Jan. 6 seems to be all CNN and MSNBC are focused on

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/20/politics ... index.html
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2022/11/1 ... of-vpx.cnn
https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/15/politics ... index.html
https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch ... 8782533852
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qZyFDY4gQU
https://www.menendez.senate.gov/newsroo ... m-on-msnbc

Which we have to compare to Fox and Newsmax constantly screaming the lie that "liberals" and Democrats have opened the border. If arrests are sharply up at the southern border compared to MAGA leadership, doesn't that say the current administration has funded CPS and allows them to do their job?

stratosphere wrote:

bluecrew wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

Take your head out of the sand. I don't have to provide even a link just turn the channel off CNN and MSNBC since they only talk about Jan 6th and Trump 24/7 . Turn on FOX or Newsmax and just look at the videos of the thousands of people crossing the border daily. But I will post a link which I am sure you will ignore.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 58734.html

From FAIR, which, despite the name, has had significant ties to the KKK and white supremacist groups, per SPLC:
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... ion-reform

So ? Does that make this article not true?

It's not really my place to do a factual review of your source, just to share that the title "FAIR analysis" is related to the group that produced the document, not the veracity of the analysis.
The group with ties to the KKK and white supremacists.

So, it's up to you to choose your sources, but the FAIR "article" has a bunch of little xenophobic gems in it, like this one:

Border Patrol agents encountered 98 known or suspected terrorists in FY 2022. In FY 2021, that number was 15. In FY 2020, it was three and in FY 2019, zero.
This number only includes known or suspected terrorists who were apprehended, not those embedded in the 1.1 million who evaded law enforcement while entering the country and eventually disappeared into American communities.

Not to mention their "analysis" is actually a press briefing sheet designed to get calls to appear on news programs. In case you were ever wondering how MSNBC, Fox, and CNN staff their daytime hours with interview guests - this is exactly how it's done. If you call Ron on the sheet, he can airdrop you a perfectly airbrushed little reactionary in a suit to go into questionable detail about terrorists streaming over the border and fentanyl in every school, etc.

And why should we be so hawkish on immigration? The unemployment rate is currently too low, which is why the fed is sort of macabrely looking on with glee as people get laid off. We all complain about how Target can't even keep the shelves stocked despite offering $15/hr. Increasing the number of people participating in the economy gives a lot more slack to the economic situation. Plenty of other reasons why our immigration system is hopelessly broken - but people showing up on the border isn't because the hordes are coming for you, but a sign that the system is otherwise so broken that their only recourse is to just show up.

stratosphere wrote:

bluecrew wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

Take your head out of the sand. I don't have to provide even a link just turn the channel off CNN and MSNBC since they only talk about Jan 6th and Trump 24/7 . Turn on FOX or Newsmax and just look at the videos of the thousands of people crossing the border daily. But I will post a link which I am sure you will ignore.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 58734.html

From FAIR, which, despite the name, has had significant ties to the KKK and white supremacist groups, per SPLC:
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... ion-reform

So ? Does that make this article not true?

The article has an obvious and xenophobic slant. The vast majority of asylum seekers are not potential terrorists - absolutely no data to back that up. The ‘article’ implies otherwise.

This kind of junk emotional narrative does nothing to bring us closer to solutions. You alluded to a possible solution by saying it should not take 10 years to get a legal approval - that’s one aspect. The issue with the asylum claims is the immigration courts are staffed and structured for early 1990s levels of claims.

The third wheel is what do we want to do as a society and economy about agricultural guest workers? Obviously the usual legal application model would not be practical for that.

stratosphere wrote:

CaptHadley wrote:

ObadiahPlainman wrote:

Allowing MILLIONS of illegals to invade a sovereign state is the most egregious violation of people's basic welfare.

Millions huh, interested to see the data to back this claim up. Please provide a source for it so I may peruse the data and article accompanying it. Thanks!

So you think unlimited amounts of people from other countries streaming across our border is sustainable? Shipping migrants up to the residence of the VP or NYC or Martha's vineyard might be a political stunt. But obviously it is going to take something to get this attention of this pathetic administration. Say what want about Trump but the message to fence jumpers was clear . You are not going to have it easy if you come here illegally and try to cross our border. Trump also sent a message to Mexico that you better help us with this or we are going to slap tariffs on you until the cows come home. Mexico got the message fast. Now Biden comes in an unravels all that and lays out a welcome mat for anyone who wants to come here and now the southern border is overwhelmed more than ever and Biden won't even go there and see the mess he created. Anyone who thinks this isn't a major problem is a special kind of stupid.

If I remember correctly, Mexico told Trump to fuck off and did jack shit.

Also if you want our economy to continue having near constant growth, you really should be for more immigration.

Nothing has really changed about the border situation. Biden has fought to keep the special pandemic related Trump regulations in place, much to the anger of many liberals. The only difference is Fox News coverage because the Democrats have the white housr.

BowlingShoeDC9 wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

CaptHadley wrote:

Millions huh, interested to see the data to back this claim up. Please provide a source for it so I may peruse the data and article accompanying it. Thanks!

So you think unlimited amounts of people from other countries streaming across our border is sustainable? Shipping migrants up to the residence of the VP or NYC or Martha's vineyard might be a political stunt. But obviously it is going to take something to get this attention of this pathetic administration. Say what want about Trump but the message to fence jumpers was clear . You are not going to have it easy if you come here illegally and try to cross our border. Trump also sent a message to Mexico that you better help us with this or we are going to slap tariffs on you until the cows come home. Mexico got the message fast. Now Biden comes in an unravels all that and lays out a welcome mat for anyone who wants to come here and now the southern border is overwhelmed more than ever and Biden won't even go there and see the mess he created. Anyone who thinks this isn't a major problem is a special kind of stupid.

If I remember correctly, Mexico told Trump to fuck off and did jack shit.

Also if you want our economy to continue having near constant growth, you really should be for more immigration.

Nothing has really changed about the border situation. Biden has fought to keep the special pandemic related Trump regulations in place, much to the anger of many liberals. The only difference is Fox News coverage because the Democrats have the white housr.

So you think the amount of migrants streaming over our border is the same as it was under Trump or less even then since Biden took office? Go ahead provide me with those factoids.

BowlingShoeDC9 wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

CaptHadley wrote:

Millions huh, interested to see the data to back this claim up. Please provide a source for it so I may peruse the data and article accompanying it. Thanks!

So you think unlimited amounts of people from other countries streaming across our border is sustainable? Shipping migrants up to the residence of the VP or NYC or Martha's vineyard might be a political stunt. But obviously it is going to take something to get this attention of this pathetic administration. Say what want about Trump but the message to fence jumpers was clear . You are not going to have it easy if you come here illegally and try to cross our border. Trump also sent a message to Mexico that you better help us with this or we are going to slap tariffs on you until the cows come home. Mexico got the message fast. Now Biden comes in an unravels all that and lays out a welcome mat for anyone who wants to come here and now the southern border is overwhelmed more than ever and Biden won't even go there and see the mess he created. Anyone who thinks this isn't a major problem is a special kind of stupid.

If I remember correctly, Mexico told Trump to fuck off and did jack shit.

Also if you want our economy to continue having near constant growth, you really should be for more immigration.

Nothing has really changed about the border situation. Biden has fought to keep the special pandemic related Trump regulations in place, much to the anger of many liberals. The only difference is Fox News coverage because the Democrats have the white housr.

They told Trump that when he insisted they pay for the wall...Not when Trump told them to help stop the migration . Trump threatened tariffs and it got Mexico's attention hence the remain in Mexico policy.

stratosphere wrote:

BowlingShoeDC9 wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

So you think unlimited amounts of people from other countries streaming across our border is sustainable? Shipping migrants up to the residence of the VP or NYC or Martha's vineyard might be a political stunt. But obviously it is going to take something to get this attention of this pathetic administration. Say what want about Trump but the message to fence jumpers was clear . You are not going to have it easy if you come here illegally and try to cross our border. Trump also sent a message to Mexico that you better help us with this or we are going to slap tariffs on you until the cows come home. Mexico got the message fast. Now Biden comes in an unravels all that and lays out a welcome mat for anyone who wants to come here and now the southern border is overwhelmed more than ever and Biden won't even go there and see the mess he created. Anyone who thinks this isn't a major problem is a special kind of stupid.

If I remember correctly, Mexico told Trump to fuck off and did jack shit.

Also if you want our economy to continue having near constant growth, you really should be for more immigration.

Nothing has really changed about the border situation. Biden has fought to keep the special pandemic related Trump regulations in place, much to the anger of many liberals. The only difference is Fox News coverage because the Democrats have the white housr.

So you think the amount of migrants streaming over our border is the same as it was under Trump or less even then since Biden took office? Go ahead provide me with those factoids.

Here are the numbers according to the CBP on SW border encounters resulting in arrest or detention.



Not exactly an immigration analyst here, but what sticks out to me is that it increased markedly in March 2021 and kept going up from there. This does correspond directly with the COVID-19 vaccinations starting in March, 2021 in Mexico, but I was unable to find a specific immigration provision or explanation on a legal or foreign policy front that matches the uptick.

Note - this is on arrests and detentions, which is an indicator of immigration enforcement. Arrests and detentions began going up as vaccine adoption was increasing, probably more rapidly among law enforcement, so it may have been a matter of "more cops on the street."

For additional context here are the total encounters from FY17. Massive spike during FY19 - Trump year 1. Numbers have increased basically since, with the exception of FY20, COVID's first year.

stratosphere wrote:

BowlingShoeDC9 wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

So you think unlimited amounts of people from other countries streaming across our border is sustainable? Shipping migrants up to the residence of the VP or NYC or Martha's vineyard might be a political stunt. But obviously it is going to take something to get this attention of this pathetic administration. Say what want about Trump but the message to fence jumpers was clear . You are not going to have it easy if you come here illegally and try to cross our border. Trump also sent a message to Mexico that you better help us with this or we are going to slap tariffs on you until the cows come home. Mexico got the message fast. Now Biden comes in an unravels all that and lays out a welcome mat for anyone who wants to come here and now the southern border is overwhelmed more than ever and Biden won't even go there and see the mess he created. Anyone who thinks this isn't a major problem is a special kind of stupid.

If I remember correctly, Mexico told Trump to fuck off and did jack shit.

Also if you want our economy to continue having near constant growth, you really should be for more immigration.

Nothing has really changed about the border situation. Biden has fought to keep the special pandemic related Trump regulations in place, much to the anger of many liberals. The only difference is Fox News coverage because the Democrats have the white housr.

They told Trump that when he insisted they pay for the wall...Not when Trump told them to help stop the migration . Trump threatened tariffs and it got Mexico's attention hence the remain in Mexico policy.

Still waiting on my questions:

You alluded to a possible solution by saying it should not take 10 years to get a legal approval - that’s one aspect. The issue with the asylum claims is the immigration courts are staffed and structured for early 1990s levels of claims. What can be done about that? And how can legal approvals be sped up from the current deep vetting and 24+ months of review for people from certain countries?

The third wheel is what do we want to do as a society and economy about agricultural guest workers? Obviously the usual legal application model would not be practical for that.

Newark727 wrote:

Nothing says "I'm serious about this problem" like dumping it on somebody else's doorstep, after all.

Why should Texas have to bear the brunt of illegal immigration? Let everyone share in helping these “asylum seekers”