https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/29/football ... index.html

There is only one GOAT on the pitch. Did it all. Was able to dribble, score from his head, pass. I loved him in the movie “Victory”. Truly a sad day for the globe. Every time someone wears the #10 or rips their jersey off it’s for him.

Godspeed.

Truly a loss, a man/player that showed the world a different way to play the beautiful game.

I am truly proud to have been able to see both Pele and Maradona play - and to actually meet Pele when I was covering the "Europe vs. the Rest of the World" match in summer of 1982 (he was Honorary Captain for the Rest of the World), and Maradona during World Cup 1994. And now I am also proud to have been able to see both Messi and Ronaldo while I was in Qatar this year.

Forty years apart... yet so much in common... they have opened the eyes of many non-soccer fans to the beautiful game. The world is a better place because of each of them.

He was a great player, but the GOAT? Football has evolved tremendously. IMHO he’s the GOAT of his era and one of the greatest of all time. Also is Maradona and Messi, to name a few.

He didn’t play in European competitions, but had to stay in Brazil.

marcelh wrote:

He was a great player, but the GOAT? Football has evolved tremendously. IMHO he’s the GOAT of his era and one of the greatest of all time. Also is Maradona and Messi, to name a few.

He didn’t play in European competitions, but had to stay in Brazil.

The level of play is the highest in South America, Europe is awful. Italy won the Euro Cup and couldn’t even qualify for the WC. Messi and Maradonna were one dimensional. Couldn’t score from their head or from bad angles. I mean Messi was the one kicking the ball from the corner on a corner kick. Pele was in front of the net scoring. You can’t compare the two. You could put Pele with his back to the net and give him the ball and he would score. Messi has to be facing the net.

NIKV69 wrote:

The level of play is the highest in South America, Europe is awful. Italy won the Euro Cup and couldn’t even qualify for the WC. Messi and Maradonna were one dimensional. Couldn’t score from their head or from bad angles. I mean Messi was the one kicking the ball from the corner on a corner kick. Pele was in front of the net scoring. You can’t compare the two. You could put Pele with his back to the net and give him the ball and he would score. Messi has to be facing the net.

Not so fast! I love South American futbol, but these claims are wrong on their face:

1). European league play is far superior to league play in South America. That is no secret, and it is no secret why that happened: European teams had money to pay the world's best players - including South American players - to come to their teams. When it comes to national teams, I still believe a couple of South American teams - Argentina and Brazil - have the edge, but the rest of the countries pale in comparison to the best European squads.

2). Deriding Messi for taking a corner kick is disingenuous. He wasn't doing that because he was a weak, one-dimensional player; he was at the corner because he was the shortest player on the field, and you need tall players to make the header in the box - a smart stategy. Far from "one-dimensional", his runs around defenders and his moves to set up goals are phenomenal, as were Maradona's. And your argument defeats your own claim: did you forget that these two are both South American players, and a part of that "highest level" of play Argentina (and other teams) have shown?

Years ago, when Boca Juniors was on the verge of bankruptcy, I wished that some multi-billionaire would come in, buy, and build that team to be the greatest in the world - by developing and keeping local Argentine talent. I wish that for many teams from our Southern neighbors. Until that happens, though, South American leagues will not reach the levels of their European counterparts - substantially because the best South American is spotted, recruited, and under contract with the Europeans. When the national teams group to play, the South Americans can show how great they are - but in league play, they cannot achieve the same level as the Europeans.

Sad... but true.

marcelh wrote:

He was a great player, but the GOAT? Football has evolved tremendously. IMHO he’s the GOAT of his era and one of the greatest of all time. Also is Maradona and Messi, to name a few.

He didn’t play in European competitions, but had to stay in Brazil.

European leagues had very strict rules regarding foreign-born players back then. Pele was close to signing with Real and Barcelona, but was prevented from doing so because of the rules and he had some exorbitant wage and transfer demands.

NIKV69 wrote:

The level of play is the highest in South America, Europe is awful. Italy won the Euro Cup and couldn’t even qualify for the WC.

You know that Italy was eliminated because they lost to another European team? There was no playoff between Europe and South America in the WC qualification.

Noray wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

The level of play is the highest in South America, Europe is awful. Italy won the Euro Cup and couldn’t even qualify for the WC.

You know that Italy was eliminated because they lost to another European team? There was no playoff between Europe and South America in the WC qualification.

It still doesn't change the fact that you'd think the top team in Europe would have been able to qualify. Italy lost to North Macedonia for goodness sakes!

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

Noray wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

The level of play is the highest in South America, Europe is awful. Italy won the Euro Cup and couldn’t even qualify for the WC.

You know that Italy was eliminated because they lost to another European team? There was no playoff between Europe and South America in the WC qualification.

It still doesn't change the fact that you'd think the top team in Europe would have been able to qualify. Italy lost to North Macedonia for goodness sakes!

What are you trying to prove? Brazil lost 1–7 to Germany in 2014. Does that mean that Brazil is bad at football? It's a team sport played by human beings, not machines. There are ups and downs, team psychology plays an essential role. In one game or one tournament, you may be the "top team", like Italy was in 2020. Sometimes you play above your potential and win a tournament or beat a top team, like North Macedonia did against Italy. But maybe you're not hungry anymore afterwards, or you can't bear the pressure, or you partied too much, or luck isn't on your side one day, and so the next game has a different outcome. That's what keeps sports exciting.

North Macedonia finished second in their qualification group, so they played Italy, who hadn't lost a single game in their group, but conceded several draws and finished second behind Switzerland. In the playoff game, North Macedonia parked the bus and then scored in stoppage time, so Italy was out.

In Europe, the general level is just so high that a top team doesn't stand out that much.

leader1 wrote:

marcelh wrote:

He was a great player, but the GOAT? Football has evolved tremendously. IMHO he’s the GOAT of his era and one of the greatest of all time. Also is Maradona and Messi, to name a few.

He didn’t play in European competitions, but had to stay in Brazil.

European leagues had very strict rules regarding foreign-born players back then. Pele was close to signing with Real and Barcelona, but was prevented from doing so because of the rules and he had some exorbitant wage and transfer demands.

Little to do with European rules of the time. There were a couple of failed bids from European clubs but Santos changed their mind in both cases. Once it looked like he was about to fly the coup again in 1961 then President Jânio Quadros declared him an 'official national treasure' which barred his export outside Brazil.
It wasn't until he'd been retired for a while and well past his prime that he was allowed to head to New York.

GOAT? debatable since he never plied his trade outside Brazil but he was a early pioneer of self promotion in the footballing world.