Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 14
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue May 09, 2023 7:04 am

StarAC17 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Which is exactly the same thing that people said about Hamilton - "It's the car."

All that shows is that Verstappen is a better driver than Perez (something we all knew anyway). They're currently P1 & P2 in the WDC way ahead of P3. The WCC is already over.


It is.

What I'm curious to see is if RedBull can win every race this year. I don't know if that has happened ever in F1 that one team runs the table and wins all the races.


Can? Looking at the hardware they should. But the RB isn’t the fastest car on one lap (Ferrari might be quicker), so I can see a Ferrari win in Monaco.
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue May 09, 2023 7:26 am

JonesNL wrote:
scbriml wrote:
JonesNL wrote:

Well Perez usually has a lot more trouble in cutting through the field despite having the same car. Nobody is denying that the RB19 is a spaceship compared to the others, but you still need the talent to finish the job and get ahead of you teammate who is 8 position in front of you...


I never said that wasn't the case, but doing it in by far the fastest car on the grid is somewhat less impressive. The fact that an average driver like Perez is way clear in P2 in the WDC says all that needs to be said about the Red Bull. We'll see how the season progresses, but at the moment, the 2023 Red Bull could well end up being the most dominant car ever seen in F1.


Well, there have been cars where the speed delta was even bigger. I watched races where Schumacher started P20 in Valencia and won the race. Also races where he lapped cars in P5-P6. The only thing that makes the Red Bulls more dominant is their reliability of their car, strategy and execution. Car failures are a thing of the past, crashes are happening less and you see less safety cars then ever before. Also refueling was a risky component that is a thing of the past. The RB19 is dominant because of other factors, as there have been cars which had a much bigger speed advantage…


The Red Bull design is hitting the sweet spot of the current design rules. There are some very technical - but also interesting - vlogs on YT which are explaining in depth what the suspension design of the Red Bull does and how it adds stability to the car when braking/accelerating and in corners. It also explains why the RB19 is extremely quick with DRS enabled. They had a very good design last year and were able to further optimize it.
 
JonesNL
Posts: 1317
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:40 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue May 09, 2023 10:19 am

marcelh wrote:
JonesNL wrote:
scbriml wrote:

I never said that wasn't the case, but doing it in by far the fastest car on the grid is somewhat less impressive. The fact that an average driver like Perez is way clear in P2 in the WDC says all that needs to be said about the Red Bull. We'll see how the season progresses, but at the moment, the 2023 Red Bull could well end up being the most dominant car ever seen in F1.


Well, there have been cars where the speed delta was even bigger. I watched races where Schumacher started P20 in Valencia and won the race. Also races where he lapped cars in P5-P6. The only thing that makes the Red Bulls more dominant is their reliability of their car, strategy and execution. Car failures are a thing of the past, crashes are happening less and you see less safety cars then ever before. Also refueling was a risky component that is a thing of the past. The RB19 is dominant because of other factors, as there have been cars which had a much bigger speed advantage…


The Red Bull design is hitting the sweet spot of the current design rules. There are some very technical - but also interesting - vlogs on YT which are explaining in depth what the suspension design of the Red Bull does and how it adds stability to the car when braking/accelerating and in corners. It also explains why the RB19 is extremely quick with DRS enabled. They had a very good design last year and were able to further optimize it.

It’s always have been the case that the team who has an engineering package that hits the sweet spot in the ruling wins a lot of races…
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 29620
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue May 09, 2023 1:42 pm

marcelh wrote:
You were stating:
I think there's a grain of truth there, Max and his extended entourage probably would prefer someone who didn't show up Max's few weaknesses, but Checo's under contract for this season and next so they know they're just going to have to deal with it.

IMHO there isn’t a grain of truth about “showing up VER’s weaknesses”, but agree to disagree.

marcelh wrote:
The 2016 season @Mercedes showed exactly why you don’t want a second driver who is “too good” in a top team. It’s very entertaining for all the fans and makes a season “interesting”, but it can be very expensive/annoying and counter productive for the team. Back in 2007 we saw exactly the same between ALO and HAM @McLaren.

Is it fair to suggest then that Max and his entourage still would not want that "too good" driver on the RB team, and we "agree to disagree" that Checo is that kind of "too good" driver that Max would find "annoying and counter productive"?

marcelh wrote:
Would PER have been able to win yesterday’s race starting 9th and VER starting on pole?

IMO PER would have been second, minimum. All he would need to do is get close enough behind cars in front to get DRS, then he'd pass them like they were standing still. Note how Max was passing cars two at a time, IMO there's no reason to think PER would not have done the same. There was more than enough time for PER to get it done. Throw in an unfortunately timed safety car once he was in 2nd and then it could have become a real race. Whether or not Max would find that "annoying" is an open question.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 5018
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue May 09, 2023 2:14 pm

Revelation wrote:
Is it fair to suggest then that Max and his entourage still would not want that "too good" driver on the RB team, and we "agree to disagree" that Checo is that kind of "too good" driver that Max would find "annoying and counter productive"?



After the infamous photo of Jos Verstappen sulking when Checo won in Saudi Arabia he hasn't been in the RB garage at all.

I don't know the reason but it would be smart for Christian Horner to sit Max down and say to him that his dad has to behave himself in the paddock or not come. He has no right to be involved with speaking to media regarding any decision RedBull is making if he is a guest of the team.

IIRC Lewis had to cut his dad off early in the career for similar reasons.
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue May 09, 2023 3:59 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Is it fair to suggest then that Max and his entourage still would not want that "too good" driver on the RB team, and we "agree to disagree" that Checo is that kind of "too good" driver that Max would find "annoying and counter productive"?



After the infamous photo of Jos Verstappen sulking when Checo won in Saudi Arabia he hasn't been in the RB garage at all.

I don't know the reason but it would be smart for Christian Horner to sit Max down and say to him that his dad has to behave himself in the paddock or not come. He has no right to be involved with speaking to media regarding any decision RedBull is making if he is a guest of the team.

IIRC Lewis had to cut his dad off early in the career for similar reasons.


Jos doesn’t visit all the races, so it isn’t strange not to go to Australia, Azerbaijan and Miami. Also Jos had to race last Sunday. Next, we have three races in Europe, so more convenient to visit.

Talking about annoying fathers: ever seen PER his father?
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue May 09, 2023 4:01 pm

JonesNL wrote:
marcelh wrote:
JonesNL wrote:

Well, there have been cars where the speed delta was even bigger. I watched races where Schumacher started P20 in Valencia and won the race. Also races where he lapped cars in P5-P6. The only thing that makes the Red Bulls more dominant is their reliability of their car, strategy and execution. Car failures are a thing of the past, crashes are happening less and you see less safety cars then ever before. Also refueling was a risky component that is a thing of the past. The RB19 is dominant because of other factors, as there have been cars which had a much bigger speed advantage…


The Red Bull design is hitting the sweet spot of the current design rules. There are some very technical - but also interesting - vlogs on YT which are explaining in depth what the suspension design of the Red Bull does and how it adds stability to the car when braking/accelerating and in corners. It also explains why the RB19 is extremely quick with DRS enabled. They had a very good design last year and were able to further optimize it.

It’s always have been the case that the team who has an engineering package that hits the sweet spot in the ruling wins a lot of races…

True, but the combination of the best car with the best driver is very intimidating for the rest of the field…
 
JonesNL
Posts: 1317
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:40 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue May 09, 2023 5:04 pm

marcelh wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Is it fair to suggest then that Max and his entourage still would not want that "too good" driver on the RB team, and we "agree to disagree" that Checo is that kind of "too good" driver that Max would find "annoying and counter productive"?



After the infamous photo of Jos Verstappen sulking when Checo won in Saudi Arabia he hasn't been in the RB garage at all.

I don't know the reason but it would be smart for Christian Horner to sit Max down and say to him that his dad has to behave himself in the paddock or not come. He has no right to be involved with speaking to media regarding any decision RedBull is making if he is a guest of the team.

IIRC Lewis had to cut his dad off early in the career for similar reasons.


Jos doesn’t visit all the races, so it isn’t strange not to go to Australia, Azerbaijan and Miami. Also Jos had to race last Sunday. Next, we have three races in Europe, so more convenient to visit.

Talking about annoying fathers: ever seen PER his father?

To be honest, a lot of fathers are quite annoying when they are near a sport where his kid is involved…
 
StarAC17
Posts: 5018
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue May 09, 2023 5:24 pm

marcelh wrote:

Jos doesn’t visit all the races, so it isn’t strange not to go to Australia, Azerbaijan and Miami. Also Jos had to race last Sunday. Next, we have three races in Europe, so more convenient to visit.

Talking about annoying fathers: ever seen PER his father?


We'll agree to disagree here.

Checo's dad is a happy character and has fun at the races he does go to but as far as I know hasn't publicly been critical Redbull over much of anything. He is out there hugging Anthony Hamilton and having a grand old time and not moping when his son doesn't win.

JonesNL wrote:

To be honest, a lot of fathers are quite annoying when they are near a sport where his kid is involved…


That is not really ok to begin with but I can see it more in an everyday sports leagues with their children, but even then I wouldn't want those belligerent parents at games and practice.

Once someone goes professional, the parents need to step aside for the most part and definitely should keep their mouth's shut.
If I am Christian Horner and Helmut Marko I am telling Max that if he wants his dad in the garage he is a guest and has no part in influencing team decisions publicly.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 23156
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 10, 2023 8:37 am

Revelation wrote:
Is it fair to suggest then that Max and his entourage still would not want that "too good" driver on the RB team, and we "agree to disagree" that Checo is that kind of "too good" driver that Max would find "annoying and counter productive"?


Lots of "paddock talk" and F1 media articles suggesting that even with two wins, Perez is taking some gloss off Verstappen's domination. Which is frankly ridiculous, Perez may have three or four good races a season where he can beat Verstappen, but over a long season he's going to finish behind every time. Plenty of folks derided Bottas for being Hamilton's poodle, but what type of dog would they want to replace Perez with? In fairness, most of this seems to be coming from Jos Verstappen who was, by all accounts, mightily pissed that Red Bull didn't ask Perez to move aside in Baku. IMHO, if Max Verstappen can't beat Perez over a long season without such assistance, then he doesn't deserve the WDC.

Many were very quick to claim Hamilton had it too easy, while ignoring that he's had three WDC-winning team-mates over his career. I'm struggling to think of any other driver in the modern era that's done that. It sounds as though Jos Verstappen doesn't want his son to face such a challenge. I'd rather hope that Max Verstappen would want to prove himself against a top team-mate.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 23156
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 10, 2023 8:50 am

marcelh wrote:
Can? Looking at the hardware they should. But the RB isn’t the fastest car on one lap (Ferrari might be quicker), so I can see a Ferrari win in Monaco.


Red Bull not the fastest car over a single lap? Four poles in five races is a pretty good indicator otherwise. :lol:

Three things are needed for Ferrari to win in Monaco - Leclerc to keep the car out of the barriers (not currently his strong point); Sainz to turn up; but most importantly, both Red Bull drivers to have a poor qualifying.
 
JonesNL
Posts: 1317
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:40 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 10, 2023 9:28 am

scbriml wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Is it fair to suggest then that Max and his entourage still would not want that "too good" driver on the RB team, and we "agree to disagree" that Checo is that kind of "too good" driver that Max would find "annoying and counter productive"?


Lots of "paddock talk" and F1 media articles suggesting that even with two wins, Perez is taking some gloss off Verstappen's domination. Which is frankly ridiculous, Perez may have three or four good races a season where he can beat Verstappen, but over a long season he's going to finish behind every time. Plenty of folks derided Bottas for being Hamilton's poodle, but what type of dog would they want to replace Perez with? In fairness, most of this seems to be coming from Jos Verstappen who was, by all accounts, mightily pissed that Red Bull didn't ask Perez to move aside in Baku. IMHO, if Max Verstappen can't beat Perez over a long season without such assistance, then he doesn't deserve the WDC.

Many were very quick to claim Hamilton had it too easy, while ignoring that he's had three WDC-winning team-mates over his career. I'm struggling to think of any other driver in the modern era that's done that. It sounds as though Jos Verstappen doesn't want his son to face such a challenge. I'd rather hope that Max Verstappen would want to prove himself against a top team-mate.


And how happy was Hamilton with his WDC-winning team-mates? It provides good TV, but definitely not preferred by smart teams and drivers...
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 29620
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 10, 2023 10:53 am

scbriml wrote:
Lots of "paddock talk" and F1 media articles suggesting that even with two wins, Perez is taking some gloss off Verstappen's domination. Which is frankly ridiculous, Perez may have three or four good races a season where he can beat Verstappen, but over a long season he's going to finish behind every time. Plenty of folks derided Bottas for being Hamilton's poodle, but what type of dog would they want to replace Perez with? In fairness, most of this seems to be coming from Jos Verstappen who was, by all accounts, mightily pissed that Red Bull didn't ask Perez to move aside in Baku. IMHO, if Max Verstappen can't beat Perez over a long season without such assistance, then he doesn't deserve the WDC.

Many were very quick to claim Hamilton had it too easy, while ignoring that he's had three WDC-winning team-mates over his career. I'm struggling to think of any other driver in the modern era that's done that. It sounds as though Jos Verstappen doesn't want his son to face such a challenge. I'd rather hope that Max Verstappen would want to prove himself against a top team-mate.

That shows the fundamental contradiction: Max's supporters get upset when anyone suggests he has any weaknesses at all, but also have a person like Jos on their side that gets upset when Max has a teammate that makes him sweat a bit. If he was such a flawless driver, his dad wouldn't have to be out there sniping for him.

I wasn't around when Lewis cut his dad out of the loop, perhaps Max may want to study that situation a bit? At some time in life, a man's gotta be his own man and speak for himself.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 5018
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 10, 2023 3:36 pm

scbriml wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Can? Looking at the hardware they should. But the RB isn’t the fastest car on one lap (Ferrari might be quicker), so I can see a Ferrari win in Monaco.


Red Bull not the fastest car over a single lap? Four poles in five races is a pretty good indicator otherwise. :lol:

Three things are needed for Ferrari to win in Monaco - Leclerc to keep the car out of the barriers (not currently his strong point); Sainz to turn up; but most importantly, both Red Bull drivers to have a poor qualifying.


Also to not have Ferrari bungle the strategy. They have actually been pretty good this year with it.

Revelation wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Lots of "paddock talk" and F1 media articles suggesting that even with two wins, Perez is taking some gloss off Verstappen's domination. Which is frankly ridiculous, Perez may have three or four good races a season where he can beat Verstappen, but over a long season he's going to finish behind every time. Plenty of folks derided Bottas for being Hamilton's poodle, but what type of dog would they want to replace Perez with? In fairness, most of this seems to be coming from Jos Verstappen who was, by all accounts, mightily pissed that Red Bull didn't ask Perez to move aside in Baku. IMHO, if Max Verstappen can't beat Perez over a long season without such assistance, then he doesn't deserve the WDC.

Many were very quick to claim Hamilton had it too easy, while ignoring that he's had three WDC-winning team-mates over his career. I'm struggling to think of any other driver in the modern era that's done that. It sounds as though Jos Verstappen doesn't want his son to face such a challenge. I'd rather hope that Max Verstappen would want to prove himself against a top team-mate.

That shows the fundamental contradiction: Max's supporters get upset when anyone suggests he has any weaknesses at all, but also have a person like Jos on their side that gets upset when Max has a teammate that makes him sweat a bit. If he was such a flawless driver, his dad wouldn't have to be out there sniping for him.

I wasn't around when Lewis cut his dad out of the loop, perhaps Max may want to study that situation a bit? At some time in life, a man's gotta be his own man and speak for himself.


I wouldn't call Bottas a poodle per sey. He didn't have what it took to take it to Lewis over a season and it took him a long time to accept that but if he could have challenged Hamilton Toto would have let them race. Look at the dynamics with Hamilton and Russell to see how Mercedes handles evenly matched teammates.

I don't think Anthony Hamilton was anywhere near as vocal as Jos Verstappen but Lewis wanted to be independent at the time. I didn't watch F1 back in 2010 but I don't think Anthony Hamilton was making public statements against McLaren if Lewis didn't do well. Jos is absolutely doing that whenever Perez wins RB should bend over and let Max win. It made some sense last year but not this year when they are as clear as they are.

Max likely won't take the action like Lewis did as he seems to have plans to do things like Le Mans with his dad and really doesn't seem to care about being a global icon. Furthermore Max's temper is his weakness. His behavior with George Russell at Baku was not acceptable and he has a history of this when Ocon tried to unlap himself in Brazil in 2018, he walked off the podium in Saudi 2021.

Fans of him defend these things but I do think he will clock a driver one day and I hope the FIA comes down hard on him. He is very unsportsmanlike for the level he is at which is right not #1. Take a lesson from Hamilton and Alonso, they aren't friends but they do respect each other and are good sportsmen to each other after the race is over.
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 2959
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Thu May 11, 2023 6:44 am

StarAC17 wrote:
I don't think Anthony Hamilton was anywhere near as vocal as Jos Verstappen but Lewis wanted to be independent at the time. I didn't watch F1 back in 2010 but I don't think Anthony Hamilton was making public statements against McLaren if Lewis didn't do well. Jos is absolutely doing that whenever Perez wins RB should bend over and let Max win. It made some sense last year but not this year when they are as clear as they are.


Jos is no doubt more vocal because he's been behind the wheel of an F1 car & been in the thick of it before (granted, not to the level of success that his son is experiencing). So people do give his words more credibility than Anthony Hamilton would have gotten. It emboldens him to sound off more.

Fun fact, Jos actually replaced Kevin Magnussen's father at Stewart-Ford in 1998. Stewart-Ford became Jaguar in 2000, then in 2005 turned into...Red Bull Racing!
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri May 12, 2023 5:10 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
I don't think Anthony Hamilton was anywhere near as vocal as Jos Verstappen but Lewis wanted to be independent at the time. I didn't watch F1 back in 2010 but I don't think Anthony Hamilton was making public statements against McLaren if Lewis didn't do well. Jos is absolutely doing that whenever Perez wins RB should bend over and let Max win. It made some sense last year but not this year when they are as clear as they are.


Jos is no doubt more vocal because he's been behind the wheel of an F1 car & been in the thick of it before (granted, not to the level of success that his son is experiencing). So people do give his words more credibility than Anthony Hamilton would have gotten. It emboldens him to sound off more.

Fun fact, Jos actually replaced Kevin Magnussen's father at Stewart-Ford in 1998. Stewart-Ford became Jaguar in 2000, then in 2005 turned into...Red Bull Racing!


Jos also tested for Honda back in 1999 when there were plans to return. Despite the result, the plan went indefinitely on hold after the designer - Harvey Postlethwaite - died of a heart attack.
https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-max-verstappen-revisits-his-fathers-honda-f1-after-20-years/?amp
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun May 14, 2023 8:34 am

scbriml wrote:
I'd rather hope that Max Verstappen would want to prove himself against a top team-mate.


Why? He has already beaten a top-driver who was in a better car in 2021. I also can’t imagine a top-driver who wants VER as a team mate and as a result is getting humiliated every time.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 23156
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun May 14, 2023 9:09 am

marcelh wrote:
scbriml wrote:
I'd rather hope that Max Verstappen would want to prove himself against a top team-mate.


Why? He has already beaten a top-driver who was in a better car in 2021. I also can’t imagine a top-driver who wants VER as a team mate and as a result is getting humiliated every time.


Who had the better car in 2021 is subjective and most pundits seemed to go for the Red Bull. But that wasn't the point and you know it.

Was Perez humiliated in Jeddah and Baku? Ask Leclerc, Alonso, Hamilton or Russell if they'd swap places with Perez.
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon May 15, 2023 6:11 am

scbriml wrote:
marcelh wrote:
scbriml wrote:
I'd rather hope that Max Verstappen would want to prove himself against a top team-mate.


Why? He has already beaten a top-driver who was in a better car in 2021. I also can’t imagine a top-driver who wants VER as a team mate and as a result is getting humiliated every time.


Who had the better car in 2021 is subjective and most pundits seemed to go for the Red Bull. But that wasn't the point and you know it.

Was Perez humiliated in Jeddah and Baku? Ask Leclerc, Alonso, Hamilton or Russell if they'd swap places with Perez.


PER was humiliated in Miami.
HAM only wants (dares?) if he will become first driver and thus able to win 8th title. LEC has the skills, but has shown cracks under pressure. ALO definitely will like it, but I can’t see him fighting for a season. RUS may be the only one who is able to come uncomfortably close to VER.

An interesting read in La Gazzetta dello Sport last week:
https://www.gazzetta.it/motori/red-bull-racing/storie/09-05-2023/max-verstappen-domina-la-f1-e-tra-i-piu-grandi-ecco-tutte-le-risposte-1683622918/max-oltre-i-numeri.shtml

“Massa, Arnoux and the other big ones: 'Yes, Max is among the biggest ever' “

Amongst others, the interview with former F1 driver Giancarlo Fisichella

"I raced against Schumacher, when he won everything with Ferrari, and I don't think there was anyone as strong as Michael in the management of the race. It remains number one to this day. But if we talk about driving talent, Max Verstappen is on the same level. The weekend in Miami was devastating. The smudge he committed in qualifying can happen, even if it cost him dearly because of the red flag, but otherwise he dominated at all times, starting with free practice. In the race he gave the impression of driving with one hand. He has a car that helps him, because he consumes the tires little and when he opens wide the DRS he flies on the straight and in overtaking, but the driver makes a difference. It can happen that Perez, with the same car, wins a few races over the course of a season. But, if we talk about the World Cup, there is no game. I'm afraid Max is destined to dominate for a long time, if the marriage with Red Bull remains so strong. After all, Verstappen has been a talent since he raced in karts, he arrived in Formula 1 at 17 and won the first grand prix as soon as he went from Toro Rosso to Red Bull, at 18 years and 7 months (the youngest ever to succeed; n.d.r.). What do you want to tell him to someone like that? At first he was crashing, he made some mistakes of inexperience, while now he almost never makes mistakes. It has acquired an incredible constancy of performance, eliminating weaknesses. It goes strong in the wet, dry, in the dry qualifying round and in the race. It's complete. If we talk about precocity, considering what he did and is doing at his age, it is even in front of the greats of the past who preceded him. Only Charles Leclerc can be compared to him in this respect. And in any case, a driver like Verstappen is born once every 20 years."
 
JonesNL
Posts: 1317
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:40 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon May 15, 2023 7:17 am

scbriml wrote:
marcelh wrote:
scbriml wrote:
I'd rather hope that Max Verstappen would want to prove himself against a top team-mate.


Why? He has already beaten a top-driver who was in a better car in 2021. I also can’t imagine a top-driver who wants VER as a team mate and as a result is getting humiliated every time.


Who had the better car in 2021 is subjective and most pundits seemed to go for the Red Bull. But that wasn't the point and you know it.

Was Perez humiliated in Jeddah and Baku? Ask Leclerc, Alonso, Hamilton or Russell if they'd swap places with Perez.


If the 2021 Red Bull car was the better car, Perez would have been 2nd easily. But despite Ferrari and Leclerc sabotaging themselves multiple time Perez ended up 3rd.

Unfortunately the raising of the floor slowed down other teams much more then Red Bull. As such the difference between the RB18/19 has become much bigger and close racing more difficult. Ironically it was all caused by Mercedes and their whining about safety due to porpoising; they single-handedly guaranteed RB's domination...
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon May 15, 2023 8:15 am

JonesNL wrote:
scbriml wrote:
marcelh wrote:

Why? He has already beaten a top-driver who was in a better car in 2021. I also can’t imagine a top-driver who wants VER as a team mate and as a result is getting humiliated every time.


Who had the better car in 2021 is subjective and most pundits seemed to go for the Red Bull. But that wasn't the point and you know it.

Was Perez humiliated in Jeddah and Baku? Ask Leclerc, Alonso, Hamilton or Russell if they'd swap places with Perez.


If the 2021 Red Bull car was the better car, Perez would have been 2nd easily. But despite Ferrari and Leclerc sabotaging themselves multiple time Perez ended up 3rd.

Unfortunately the raising of the floor slowed down other teams much more then Red Bull. As such the difference between the RB18/19 has become much bigger and close racing more difficult. Ironically it was all caused by Mercedes and their whining about safety due to porpoising; they single-handedly guaranteed RB's domination...

2021 was the old configuration without the ground effect. It seems you mixed up 2021 and 2022.
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue May 16, 2023 5:11 pm

 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 2959
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 17, 2023 11:20 am

marcelh wrote:


Actually there will be no weekend as Imola has been cancelled

https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/imola-f1-italian-grand-prix-cancelled-b2340504.html
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 29620
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 17, 2023 1:18 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Actually there will be no weekend as Imola has been cancelled

https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/imola-f1-italian-grand-prix-cancelled-b2340504.html

Thanks for the post. I had not realized the flooding was that bad. It looks like the region has enough things to deal with without trying to host a F1 race on top of all of the other things they need to be doing right now.
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 17, 2023 8:30 pm

Drone footage of the paddock which has been completely flooded.
https://youtu.be/IwY9dQDEefMa
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 23156
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Thu May 18, 2023 7:45 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
marcelh wrote:


Actually there will be no weekend as Imola has been cancelled

https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/imola-f1-italian-grand-prix-cancelled-b2340504.html


Disappointing, but absolutely the right decision.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 29620
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun May 21, 2023 6:34 pm

Interesting video from "The Race":

Why Mercedes has got F1's current era so wrong so far

They went through the same riff on a recent podcast, and it's in a long article on their web site:

https://the-race.com/formula-1/why-merc ... ng-so-far/

The video is good for visualizing what they are saying, and the article gives detailed text so you can follow along.

The explanation makes sense to me as a non-expert, but the thing that sticks with me is:

A key part of Mercedes’ downfall was believing numbers in the virtual world that couldn’t be replicated in real-world conditions – something visible from its brutal first shakedown at Silverstone in February 2022.

“Mercedes’ simulation gave sensational figures,” Hughes continued.

Had the W13 worked the way simulation suggested it would, Red Bull and Ferrari would have been left for dust – it was that clear.

“Mercedes was going into that season believing it was going to have an enormous advantage and there was an exciting buzz leaking out about just how good this car was before it ran.

The real world inconveniently got in the way of making those simulations accurate.”

I think I'd state it more directly: Merc's simulations did not model the real world, yet Merc kept believing its simulations for two seasons in a row.

The article tries to address the question of why they kept up with the concept for a second season:

Still with those sensational windtunnel simulation figures tantalising them, for this year’s W14, Mercedes decided to keep that basic aero philosophy with a redesigned rear suspension and gearbox, which gave it the appropriate range that it didn’t need to be so stiff and it made it more driveable and also helped by the anti-porpoising floor regulation tweaks,” Hughes explained of Mercedes’ logic.

“They could finally make that concept work as intended but it turns out that those first-order porpoising and bouncing problems that they had last year had simply hidden a more subtle limitation.

The aero concept just isn’t as effective as a classic undercut. The exposed floor and the wide sis bar just did not give adequate compensation for the lack of that undercut channel, especially when measured against the Red Bull, which has made massive gains thanks to the way it has configured its suspension to limit pitch and dive.

“So the Mercedes now seems to run out of airflow capacity at high speed relative to the Red Bull so it’s down on high-speed downforce, which is the opposite of last year.


“Although it’s now competitive with Ferrari on straightline speed, it’s well behind the Red Bull and its spectacular DRS stall.

So it seems Merc talked themselves into believing that the simulation was still overall accurate, yet it didn't show the issue with porposing. Then they talked themselves into thinking if they got rid of porposing/bouncing they'd find all those colossal gains and blow past RB and Ferrari. Yet now after two years we're being told the simulation has been wrong all along, and the "classic undercut" approach was and is better.

Again, without being an expert, this to me seems like a over-reliance on the tools, and insufficient vetting of the tools. We see they run the car around the track with all those instruments that can map the real-world airflows, didn't those things show them they were barking up the wrong tree?

I have used a lot of tools over the years to model things in the real world, but always have some way of comparing the models to the real world. When they don't agree, I pretty quickly decide the tools are broken. Again, as a non-expert in this field, it seems they've put way too much faith into their simulations.

I wish the article/podcast had addressed these aspects more directly.
 
JonesNL
Posts: 1317
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:40 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun May 21, 2023 6:56 pm

Revelation wrote:
Interesting video from "The Race":

Why Mercedes has got F1's current era so wrong so far

They went through the same riff on a recent podcast, and it's in a long article on their web site:

https://the-race.com/formula-1/why-merc ... ng-so-far/

The video is good for visualizing what they are saying, and the article gives detailed text so you can follow along.

The explanation makes sense to me as a non-expert, but the thing that sticks with me is:

A key part of Mercedes’ downfall was believing numbers in the virtual world that couldn’t be replicated in real-world conditions – something visible from its brutal first shakedown at Silverstone in February 2022.

“Mercedes’ simulation gave sensational figures,” Hughes continued.

Had the W13 worked the way simulation suggested it would, Red Bull and Ferrari would have been left for dust – it was that clear.

“Mercedes was going into that season believing it was going to have an enormous advantage and there was an exciting buzz leaking out about just how good this car was before it ran.

The real world inconveniently got in the way of making those simulations accurate.”

I think I'd state it more directly: Merc's simulations did not model the real world, yet Merc kept believing its simulations for two seasons in a row.

The article tries to address the question of why they kept up with the concept for a second season:

Still with those sensational windtunnel simulation figures tantalising them, for this year’s W14, Mercedes decided to keep that basic aero philosophy with a redesigned rear suspension and gearbox, which gave it the appropriate range that it didn’t need to be so stiff and it made it more driveable and also helped by the anti-porpoising floor regulation tweaks,” Hughes explained of Mercedes’ logic.

“They could finally make that concept work as intended but it turns out that those first-order porpoising and bouncing problems that they had last year had simply hidden a more subtle limitation.

The aero concept just isn’t as effective as a classic undercut. The exposed floor and the wide sis bar just did not give adequate compensation for the lack of that undercut channel, especially when measured against the Red Bull, which has made massive gains thanks to the way it has configured its suspension to limit pitch and dive.

“So the Mercedes now seems to run out of airflow capacity at high speed relative to the Red Bull so it’s down on high-speed downforce, which is the opposite of last year.


“Although it’s now competitive with Ferrari on straightline speed, it’s well behind the Red Bull and its spectacular DRS stall.

So it seems Merc talked themselves into believing that the simulation was still overall accurate, yet it didn't show the issue with porposing. Then they talked themselves into thinking if they got rid of porposing/bouncing they'd find all those colossal gains and blow past RB and Ferrari. Yet now after two years we're being told the simulation has been wrong all along, and the "classic undercut" approach was and is better.

Again, without being an expert, this to me seems like a over-reliance on the tools, and insufficient vetting of the tools. We see they run the car around the track with all those instruments that can map the real-world airflows, didn't those things show them they were barking up the wrong tree?

I have used a lot of tools over the years to model things in the real world, but always have some way of comparing the models to the real world. When they don't agree, I pretty quickly decide the tools are broken. Again, as a non-expert in this field, it seems they've put way too much faith into their simulations.

I wish the article/podcast had addressed these aspects more directly.


Hamilton and Bottas complained about this in the past as well, an over reliance on tools and data and not driver input…
 
tautliner
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue May 24, 2022 10:39 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 24, 2023 7:22 am

I am confused at recent news. So we have Red Bull going to Ford (I Always thought Honda wanted out, hence...) . But now we have Honda going with Aston from 2026: What am I missing here ? Why did RBR not just stay with Honda, what did I miss here ?
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 24, 2023 9:55 am

tautliner wrote:
I am confused at recent news. So we have Red Bull going to Ford (I Always thought Honda wanted out, hence...) . But now we have Honda going with Aston from 2026: What am I missing here ? Why did RBR not just stay with Honda, what did I miss here ?


Honda is officially out of F1, but is supportoing the RB power train untill 2025.https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-honda-and-red-bull-extend-power-unit-support-deal-until-2025.7hFIkY4W18FcmxNlWnB2ST.html

So there is no "why should RBR not stay with Honda", but "Honda left RBR at the end of 2021".
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 1989
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 24, 2023 10:43 am

marcelh wrote:
tautliner wrote:
I am confused at recent news. So we have Red Bull going to Ford (I Always thought Honda wanted out, hence...) . But now we have Honda going with Aston from 2026: What am I missing here ? Why did RBR not just stay with Honda, what did I miss here ?


Honda is officially out of F1, but is supportoing the RB power train untill 2025.https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-honda-and-red-bull-extend-power-unit-support-deal-until-2025.7hFIkY4W18FcmxNlWnB2ST.html

So there is no "why should RBR not stay with Honda", but "Honda left RBR at the end of 2021".


I think he is referring to this: https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/65682563
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 29620
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 24, 2023 12:44 pm

tautliner wrote:
I am confused at recent news. So we have Red Bull going to Ford (I Always thought Honda wanted out, hence...) . But now we have Honda going with Aston from 2026: What am I missing here ? Why did RBR not just stay with Honda, what did I miss here ?

As mentioned, Honda itself pulled out of F1 as an engine supplier in 2021. The reason the Honda CEO gave was they wanted to dedicate the engineering talent towards electrification of their consumer cars. They made a deal with RB where RB bought up the major facilities Honda had in the UK. RB carried on as 'Red Bull Power Trains' on the engine side with Honda providing engineering and parts support to RBPT mostly on the V6 side, mostly from Japan.

Yet Honda also stayed involved in F1 at the committee level with regard to the 2026 engine rules, as did several other companies over the last few years such as Audi who ended up buying Sauber and committing to build a 2026 engine and Porsche who tried to get more involved but failed. I would say Honda was in limbo land, half engaged and half not engaged. They even got increased branding rights on the RB car for this season i.e. their logo is more prominent on the RB car than it was last season. They also got a new CEO, apparently one more willing to re-engage on the F1 scene.

At the same time it seems to me that once they got going the Red Bull side, they liked the idea of building their own engine in-house. It also seems they like the arrangement they have with Ford which is to a very great extent a naming rights deal with Ford maybe kinda having some small amount of technology input in exchange for a LOT of cash. The media reported RB and Honda discussed re-establishing its partnership at a higher level but that just didn't work out IMO for the reason I gave, RB liked the idea of building its own engine. Apparently they're happy with the people they've hired and have done the investing to build out a factory and like where things are going.

As for why with Aston-Martin, that's who was left at closing time. Nice pick-up for AM in going from a Merc customer to having what appears to be a dedicated engine supplier.

It's going to be a lot of change for everyone involved though. There is a few years of lead-in, hopefully everyone has their act together for 2026.
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 24, 2023 12:58 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
marcelh wrote:
tautliner wrote:
I am confused at recent news. So we have Red Bull going to Ford (I Always thought Honda wanted out, hence...) . But now we have Honda going with Aston from 2026: What am I missing here ? Why did RBR not just stay with Honda, what did I miss here ?


Honda is officially out of F1, but is supportoing the RB power train untill 2025.https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-honda-and-red-bull-extend-power-unit-support-deal-until-2025.7hFIkY4W18FcmxNlWnB2ST.html

So there is no "why should RBR not stay with Honda", but "Honda left RBR at the end of 2021".


I think he is referring to this: https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/65682563


I know. But he asked why Red Bull should not stay with Honda. IMHO there is no “should stay”, because Honda has already left RBR.
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 1989
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 24, 2023 2:40 pm

marcelh wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
marcelh wrote:

Honda is officially out of F1, but is supportoing the RB power train untill 2025.https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-honda-and-red-bull-extend-power-unit-support-deal-until-2025.7hFIkY4W18FcmxNlWnB2ST.html

So there is no "why should RBR not stay with Honda", but "Honda left RBR at the end of 2021".


I think he is referring to this: https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/65682563


I know. But he asked why Red Bull should not stay with Honda. IMHO there is no “should stay”, because Honda has already left RBR.


Ah now I get you. And to be honest, in its core there is still a Honda in the RB, like there is an Opel in a Vauxhall.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 5018
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 24, 2023 4:06 pm

Revelation wrote:
So it seems Merc talked themselves into believing that the simulation was still overall accurate, yet it didn't show the issue with porposing. Then they talked themselves into thinking if they got rid of porposing/bouncing they'd find all those colossal gains and blow past RB and Ferrari. Yet now after two years we're being told the simulation has been wrong all along, and the "classic undercut" approach was and is better.



The weren't the only team that had issues with poirposing last year. Ferrari and Alpine had it bad as well.
One of the factors that contributed to it was that they couldn't run the car as low on the wind tunnel belt as in reality so they didn't see the effect when they were developing their car.

I still think it is better than the Ferrari on race pace and if they could out qualify AM then they might be better than them too. Still no where near RedBull though.
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 2959
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 24, 2023 10:54 pm

Revelation wrote:
tautliner wrote:
I am confused at recent news. So we have Red Bull going to Ford (I Always thought Honda wanted out, hence...) . But now we have Honda going with Aston from 2026: What am I missing here ? Why did RBR not just stay with Honda, what did I miss here ?

As mentioned, Honda itself pulled out of F1 as an engine supplier in 2021. The reason the Honda CEO gave was they wanted to dedicate the engineering talent towards electrification of their consumer cars. They made a deal with RB where RB bought up the major facilities Honda had in the UK. RB carried on as 'Red Bull Power Trains' on the engine side with Honda providing engineering and parts support to RBPT mostly on the V6 side, mostly from Japan.


I always believe that Honda's reasoning for pulling out of F1 in 2020 was absolute bullcrap. The company said they were pulling out of F1 to focus on electrification, but they remained as engine supplier for IndyCars? It doesn't make sense unless you realize that the main reason why they pulled out of F1 in 2020 was because they had spent a butt load of money and only managed a few wins at the point, and that they remained in IndyCars because their engine won races & championships there.

Then Red Bull did the unthinkable and won the championship - but by that time it's too late for Honda to rescind their pullout!

In any case, it's amazing how things are going full circle. First with the Red Bull-Ford partnership (Red Bull Racing was previously Jaguar Racing, which was owned by Ford), then the Aston Martin-Honda partnership - in its previous guise as Jordan F1, they had Honda engines from 1998-2002.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 29620
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Thu May 25, 2023 3:31 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I always believe that Honda's reasoning for pulling out of F1 in 2020 was absolute bullcrap. The company said they were pulling out of F1 to focus on electrification, but they remained as engine supplier for IndyCars? It doesn't make sense unless you realize that the main reason why they pulled out of F1 in 2020 was because they had spent a butt load of money and only managed a few wins at the point, and that they remained in IndyCars because their engine won races & championships there.

Then Red Bull did the unthinkable and won the championship - but by that time it's too late for Honda to rescind their pullout!

Yes, hard to argue. Also the comments on "The Race" podcast were about how in the end Honda has paid a huge price for withdrawing from the RB partnership. They could be basking in the glory of two going on three championships and keep riding the success into the 2026-rules era, now they have to hope their partnership with AM can be fruitful with them starting a year or more behind the other 2026 players and having to ramp up on the MGU side (since that part of the team was in the UK and now largely works for RBPT). They also talked about how Honda was behind by a year or so last time they re-entered F1 and this cost them their partnership (I think w/ McLaren). And so now it's going to be interesting if they get 2-3 years into the 2026 era and they aren't an instant winner and some new CEO comes along and wants to save some money.
 
tautliner
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue May 24, 2022 10:39 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri May 26, 2023 11:25 am

Revelation wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I always believe that Honda's reasoning for pulling out of F1 in 2020 was absolute bullcrap. The company said they were pulling out of F1 to focus on electrification, but they remained as engine supplier for IndyCars? It doesn't make sense unless you realize that the main reason why they pulled out of F1 in 2020 was because they had spent a butt load of money and only managed a few wins at the point, and that they remained in IndyCars because their engine won races & championships there.

Then Red Bull did the unthinkable and won the championship - but by that time it's too late for Honda to rescind their pullout!

Yes, hard to argue. Also the comments on "The Race" podcast were about how in the end Honda has paid a huge price for withdrawing from the RB partnership. They could be basking in the glory of two going on three championships and keep riding the success into the 2026-rules era, now they have to hope their partnership with AM can be fruitful with them starting a year or more behind the other 2026 players and having to ramp up on the MGU side (since that part of the team was in the UK and now largely works for RBPT). They also talked about how Honda was behind by a year or so last time they re-entered F1 and this cost them their partnership (I think w/ McLaren). And so now it's going to be interesting if they get 2-3 years into the 2026 era and they aren't an instant winner and some new CEO comes along and wants to save some money.



Interesting thoughts Gents, thanks.

http://WWW.Speedweek.com , (in German) the German , Red Bull heavy site just had an article on this. Thought the last remark at the end of the article from Max was interesting:

My attempt of a translate:
Of course I am super happy for the Honda guys that they are staying, but it is a little sad how it all went. This is great for Aston Martin, and we are all looking forward to what will eventuate in 2026, the Dutchman added.

All weird to me, sorry, hence I agree with the `what comes around.....`

«Natürlich freue ich mich für die Honda-Leute, dass sie bleiben, aber es ist schon etwas schade, wie das alles gelaufen ist. Für Aston Martin ist es aber grossartig und wir freuen uns auch sehr auf das, was ab 2026 kommt», fügte der Niederländer an.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 29620
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sat May 27, 2023 2:20 pm

FP3 results suggest that Monaco this year is really a RB vs AM race, with SAI in P3 at 0.485 s behind P1 VER. If the RB & AM cars are between three tenths and a half second a lap faster than the rest, they should open up a big gap early that will only grow. I guess we'll know more after quali, but it doesn't look like there will be much of a race.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 29620
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sat May 27, 2023 3:19 pm

Quali ended up with a few changes than what I wrote. I didn't know FP3 got shut down early. In any case, I won't spoil the quali results, here's a link for those who want to know: https://racingnews365.com/2023-f1-monac ... ng-results
 
JonesNL
Posts: 1317
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:40 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sat May 27, 2023 3:37 pm

Revelation wrote:
Quali ended up with a few changes than what I wrote. I didn't know FP3 got shut down early. In any case, I won't spoil the quali results, here's a link for those who want to know: https://racingnews365.com/2023-f1-monac ... ng-results


Quali was quite exciting to say the least and the cars are really close to each other…
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 29620
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sat May 27, 2023 4:57 pm

JonesNL wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Quali ended up with a few changes than what I wrote. I didn't know FP3 got shut down early. In any case, I won't spoil the quali results, here's a link for those who want to know: https://racingnews365.com/2023-f1-monac ... ng-results

Quali was quite exciting to say the least and the cars are really close to each other…

I agree, it is shaping up to be a decent race, even if we have a good idea about who will win, barring unforeseen circumstances. I guess that's the main reason to watch these days, unforeseen circumstances...

One site's weather forecast:

The Met Office forecasts that a period of morning sun will quickly be replaced with clouds that bring a 60 per cent chance of rain during the race itself.

Temperatures are set to remain good though with little fluctuation from the 24 Celsius mark predicted for the weekend.

It will be hot, humid, and with a chance of rain for the race day itself.

Remember, 60% chance of rain also means 40% chance of no rain.
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sat May 27, 2023 7:10 pm

Revelation wrote:
JonesNL wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Quali ended up with a few changes than what I wrote. I didn't know FP3 got shut down early. In any case, I won't spoil the quali results, here's a link for those who want to know: https://racingnews365.com/2023-f1-monac ... ng-results

Quali was quite exciting to say the least and the cars are really close to each other…

I agree, it is shaping up to be a decent race, even if we have a good idea about who will win, barring unforeseen circumstances. I guess that's the main reason to watch these days, unforeseen circumstances...


With ALO alongside VER and knowing ALO is more consistent with his starts and PER starting 20th, I can see ALO leading the race after the first corner. VER would be stupid to try to stay in front of ALO when his start isn’t perfect.

I’ve watched one of the most exiting qualifications in a long time with ALO just missing the pole position because VER had to go to the limit. I guess only real fans are able to appreciate and value it.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 23156
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sat May 27, 2023 9:30 pm

JonesNL wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Quali ended up with a few changes than what I wrote. I didn't know FP3 got shut down early. In any case, I won't spoil the quali results, here's a link for those who want to know: https://racingnews365.com/2023-f1-monac ... ng-results


Quali was quite exciting to say the least and the cars are really close to each other…


Unfortunately, for fans of actual racing, that’s the most exciting part of the whole weekend over.
 
User avatar
Grizzly410
Posts: 677
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 8:38 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sat May 27, 2023 9:47 pm

scbriml wrote:
JonesNL wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Quali ended up with a few changes than what I wrote. I didn't know FP3 got shut down early. In any case, I won't spoil the quali results, here's a link for those who want to know: https://racingnews365.com/2023-f1-monac ... ng-results


Quali was quite exciting to say the least and the cars are really close to each other…


Unfortunately, for fans of actual racing, that’s the most exciting part of the whole weekend over.


The first couple of laps may be of some interest, hopefully the pit stop phase too, but yeah, that's about it.
 
JonesNL
Posts: 1317
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:40 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun May 28, 2023 6:29 am

scbriml wrote:
JonesNL wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Quali ended up with a few changes than what I wrote. I didn't know FP3 got shut down early. In any case, I won't spoil the quali results, here's a link for those who want to know: https://racingnews365.com/2023-f1-monac ... ng-results


Quali was quite exciting to say the least and the cars are really close to each other…


Unfortunately, for fans of actual racing, that’s the most exciting part of the whole weekend over.

It might be, but there is chance of rain tomorrow which can mix things up.
And pole sitters mostly don’t win in Monaco…
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 29620
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun May 28, 2023 2:37 pm

What the announcers call 'frantic action' in the rain, I call 'a sh*t show'...
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun May 28, 2023 2:49 pm

Revelation wrote:
What the announcers call 'frantic action' in the rain, I call 'a sh*t show'...


This is Monaco. Qualifying is more exciting than the race. Great tire management by VER on the mediums.
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 5433
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun May 28, 2023 5:01 pm

What a race from Ocon! Very quick when he needed to be, appropriately defensive when that was necessary and absolutely nailing the risk/reward level of aggression during the very wet period. Seemingly the only driver who didn't smack the wall at some point in the race. Fantastic race with lots of drama thanks to that rain.

Absolute disasterclass from Perez and Stroll though....what an complete embarrassment from both of them.
 
5427247845
Posts: 2437
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2023 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun May 28, 2023 5:29 pm

zkojq wrote:
What a race from Ocon! Very quick when he needed to be, appropriately defensive when that was necessary and absolutely nailing the risk/reward level of aggression during the very wet period. Seemingly the only driver who didn't smack the wall at some point in the race. Fantastic race with lots of drama thanks to that rain.

Absolute disasterclass from Perez and Stroll though....what an complete embarrassment from both of them.


Also Mercedes had a decent result and is only 1 point behind Aston Martin in the Constructors Championship. Ferrari disappointed again and even worse than Alpine.
  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 14

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 48 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos