I haven’t gotten a clear awnser on it, are these documents still classified?

MaverickM11 wrote:

Bricktop wrote:

What is troubling is with all the firestorm that the Trump documents issue caused, no-one in the Biden team thought to do these searches before presumably last November. I'd be furious if I was Biden. Even if he didn't think there was anything, make damn sure.

The Biden team alerted the authorities and have cooperated every step of the way. Trump did the exact opposite, to this day. Fun to see republicans Susan Collins concerned about document retention since *checks watch* Monday.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

A fascinating but thoroughly irrelevant diversion.

Maybe I was too nuanced when I posed my thought. In politics, there's something called vetting. Before I call my opponent an adulterous SOB, I had better be sure I haven't been straying myself, lest that comes back to bite me. That a classified document search wasn't done until last fall is negligent on the part of Biden's team. Klain dropped the ball.

Bricktop wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

Bricktop wrote:

What is troubling is with all the firestorm that the Trump documents issue caused, no-one in the Biden team thought to do these searches before presumably last November. I'd be furious if I was Biden. Even if he didn't think there was anything, make damn sure.

The Biden team alerted the authorities and have cooperated every step of the way. Trump did the exact opposite, to this day. Fun to see republicans Susan Collins concerned about document retention since *checks watch* Monday.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

A fascinating but thoroughly irrelevant diversion.

Maybe I was too nuanced when I posed my thought. In politics, there's something called vetting. Before I call my opponent an adulterous SOB, I had better be sure I haven't been straying myself, lest that comes back to bite me. That a classified document search wasn't done until last fall is negligent on the part of Biden's team. Klain dropped the ball.

????? This isn't the same thing. THe analogy would be you caught Trump boinking someone else, called them out on it, and then they continued to do it, and claimed that you never saw what you saw. On Biden's side, he has a crazy hanger on and he is calling in the team to get her away before he gets in trouble.

casinterest wrote:

Bricktop wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

The Biden team alerted the authorities and have cooperated every step of the way. Trump did the exact opposite, to this day. Fun to see republicans Susan Collins concerned about document retention since *checks watch* Monday.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

A fascinating but thoroughly irrelevant diversion.

Maybe I was too nuanced when I posed my thought. In politics, there's something called vetting. Before I call my opponent an adulterous SOB, I had better be sure I haven't been straying myself, lest that comes back to bite me. That a classified document search wasn't done until last fall is negligent on the part of Biden's team. Klain dropped the ball.

????? This isn't the same thing. THe analogy would be you caught Trump boinking someone else, called them out on it, and then they continued to do it, and claimed that you never saw what you saw. On Biden's side, he has a crazy hanger on and he is calling in the team to get her away before he gets in trouble.

I guess the talking points just don't cover my commentary.

The analogy is irrelevant. Someone on Biden's team should have looked for any documents at the start of this fracas. It's simple due diligence.

Bricktop wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Bricktop wrote:

A fascinating but thoroughly irrelevant diversion.

Maybe I was too nuanced when I posed my thought. In politics, there's something called vetting. Before I call my opponent an adulterous SOB, I had better be sure I haven't been straying myself, lest that comes back to bite me. That a classified document search wasn't done until last fall is negligent on the part of Biden's team. Klain dropped the ball.

????? This isn't the same thing. THe analogy would be you caught Trump boinking someone else, called them out on it, and then they continued to do it, and claimed that you never saw what you saw. On Biden's side, he has a crazy hanger on and he is calling in the team to get her away before he gets in trouble.

I guess the talking points just don't cover my commentary.

The analogy is irrelevant. Someone on Biden's team should have looked for any documents at the start of this fracas. It's simple due diligence.

There you are correct, but more importantly is how do we help these Elected Officials, who to be honest, see a lot more classified material in a PUBLIC office than than the average person does with security clearance, handle the docs better?

So no one knows these documents are missing from wherever they’re supposed to be archived? In that case Bidens “team” should have just shredded these documents and no one would know, unless someone wants to put him in a bad light about this.

Aaron747 wrote:

Mmmm...because details of the investigation leaked.

It was a rhetorical question. This was swept under the rug obviously because of the election.

bluecrew wrote:

Biden just... had documents he wasn't aware of.

If you actually believe that, well, okay then...

While Biden gave this interview last year, he had documents stored in 3 inappropriate locations that we know of, one of which was his own garage: https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/16 ... mp4?tag=12. But yeah, he "wasn't aware" of it. Come on man.

dmg626 wrote:

So no one knows these documents are missing from wherever they’re supposed to be archived? In that case Bidens “team” should have just shredded these documents and no one would know, unless someone wants to put him in a bad light about this.

That's an interesting argument, and would seem to be the way other documents were handled.

casinterest wrote:

dmg626 wrote:

So no one knows these documents are missing from wherever they’re supposed to be archived? In that case Bidens “team” should have just shredded these documents and no one would know, unless someone wants to put him in a bad light about this.

That's an interesting argument, and would seem to be the way other documents were handled.

Perhaps best just to admit you made a mistake.

They found they made a mistake and put their hands up to it.

bennett123 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

dmg626 wrote:

So no one knows these documents are missing from wherever they’re supposed to be archived? In that case Bidens “team” should have just shredded these documents and no one would know, unless someone wants to put him in a bad light about this.

That's an interesting argument, and would seem to be the way other documents were handled.

Perhaps best just to admit you made a mistake.

They found they made a mistake and put their hands up to it.

Yeah, but you have to be like Trump, never admit you were wrong, and never quit lying.

BobRoss wrote:

If you actually believe that, well, okay then ....

While Biden gave this interview last year, he had documents stored in 3 inappropriate locations that we know of, one of which was his own garage: https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/16 ... mp4?tag=12. But yeah, he "wasn't aware" of it. Come on man.

Interview was perfectly appropriate. Trump knew he had classified materials and believed that he had declassified them by intentionally taking them. Then was outraged and filed a lawsuit when the government took them back.

We all said that when this story broke, the patented Republican Equivalence-O-Matic would be in full gear, and it is. But the fact remains that there isn't an equivalence in terms of false declassification, intent, or obstruction.

At best, this creates an excuse for Trump in terms of possession of classified materials. I'll wait for the two investigations to conclude, but I highly doubt this is worse for Biden than for Trump.

Avatar2go wrote:

Interview was perfectly appropriate.

Storing classified materials in your *garage* for years is not "appropriate" at all. And these are documents from when he was VP, and had no authority to declassify anything he had in possession.

BobRoss wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

Interview was perfectly appropriate.

Storing classified materials in your *garage* for years is not "appropriate" at all. And these are documents from when he was VP, and had no authority to declassify anything he had in possession.

As stated, the interview was perfectly appropriate.

The claim to declassification powers is irrelevant in both cases. Biden never made that claim, and the courts found Trump's claims to be unsubstantiated.

Avatar2go wrote:

BobRoss wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

Interview was perfectly appropriate.

Storing classified materials in your *garage* for years is not "appropriate" at all. And these are documents from when he was VP, and had no authority to declassify anything he had in possession.

As stated, the interview was perfectly appropriate.

The claim to declassification powers is irrelevant in both cases. Biden never made that claim, and the courts found Trump's claims to be unsubstantiated.

Should classified material be stored in Biden's garage or not? Yes or no?

BobRoss wrote:

Should classified material be stored in Biden's garage or not? Yes or no?

Obviously not. I've said as much earlier in the thread. I've also said that Biden should step forward to address any shortcomings that are found in handling classified materials, whether for himself or Trump or anyone else. It's a national security issue. And I've also said that this is more important than the political attacks that may result.

But we don't yet know the circumstances by which they got there, which is the value and purpose of the investigation. Once that is clear, I don't believe there will be the equivalence between Trump and Biden, that the Republicans are trying to draw.

I mentioned the legal principle of mens rea, which is intent to violate the law, and a prerequisite for criminal actions. At present, there is no evidence of intent for Biden. There is evidence for Trump, since he declared that the materials belonged to him.

BobRoss wrote:

bluecrew wrote:

Biden just... had documents he wasn't aware of.

If you actually believe that, well, okay then...

While Biden gave this interview last year, he had documents stored in 3 inappropriate locations that we know of, one of which was his own garage: https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/16 ... mp4?tag=12. But yeah, he "wasn't aware" of it. Come on man.

I'm still not sure why my post got deleted, but unfortunately you snipped a lot of context out of the quote.

Should Biden have known he had classified documents? Sure, but I think this is an issue that has been prevalent across administrations for decades. The same thing doesn't happen under Obama and then also happen under Trump, without it being a symptom of a larger problem. Probably that the Archives and the government as a whole are relying on the political staff to ensure documents are appropriately handled, and at the end of an administration, things get messy.

I have never thought Trump should face undue sanction for this, have never argued that. It's embarrassing that he makes it the fight that it is, when the reality is these documents should just be turned over when found.

If we're going to barbecue Biden over this too, maybe we should have a deeper look at how far back this goes, because I would venture a guess that poor records management likely goes back through Bush, Clinton, etc. Peripherally this all sorta ties into the old email server hit - it's another case where government infrastructure and handling of sensitive documents/IT issues hasn't kept pace with what we expect from the private sector, so we (fairly) criticize them for being so outdated.

bluecrew wrote:

If we're going to barbecue Biden over this too, maybe we should have a deeper look at how far back this goes, because I would venture a guess that poor records management likely goes back through Bush, Clinton, etc. Peripherally this all sorta ties into the old email server hit - it's another case where government infrastructure and handling of sensitive documents/IT issues hasn't kept pace with what we expect from the private sector, so we (fairly) criticize them for being so outdated.

Your terms are acceptable.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/politics/live-n ... index.html

Garland’s appointed a special counsel.

The people that believe the special counsel appointment for trump’s documents is politically motivated can sit down now.

Aaaaaand here come the Democrat Party hacks who think the documents were "planted" in Biden's garage and offices (despite Biden admitting today on live TV he knew of them):
First up, Joy Behar; second, Hank "Guam might tip over and capsize" Johnson: https://twitter.com/MagaMastriano/statu ... 4802666498
If Whoppi is the sane voice in the room, you know they've lost their minds.

BobRoss wrote:

Aaaaaand here come the Democrat Party hacks who think the documents were "planted" in Biden's garage and offices (despite Biden admitting today on live TV he knew of them):
First up, Joy Behar; second, Hank "Guam might tip over and capsize" Johnson: https://twitter.com/MagaMastriano/statu ... 4802666498
If Whoppi is the sane voice in the room, you know they've lost their minds.

"The View" is not Democratic party hacks, it's a current events gossip show. There are no authoritative sources or reporting involved. There is no particular credence associated with anything they say. It's just opinion, and unqualified at that.

Sources in the DoJ said that Garland felt compelled to appoint a special counsel because the White House had made incomplete statements earlier in the week. Which points out the same difficulty Trump got himself into, if you address an ongoing investigation before it's complete, you set yourself up for elevated risk.

Best thing to have done would be to acknowledge the investigation and withhold comment, until the DoJ was prepared to discuss it publicly.

Avatar2go wrote:

BobRoss wrote:

Aaaaaand here come the Democrat Party hacks who think the documents were "planted" in Biden's garage and offices (despite Biden admitting today on live TV he knew of them):
First up, Joy Behar; second, Hank "Guam might tip over and capsize" Johnson: https://twitter.com/MagaMastriano/statu ... 4802666498
If Whoppi is the sane voice in the room, you know they've lost their minds.

"The View" is not Democratic party hacks, it's a current events gossip show. There are no authoritative sources or reporting involved. There is no particular credence associated with anything they say. It's just opinion, and unqualified at that.

Sources in the DoJ said that Garland felt compelled to appoint a special counsel because the White House had made incomplete statements earlier in the week. Which points out the same difficulty Trump got himself into, if you address an ongoing investigation before it's complete, you set yourself up for elevated risk.

Best thing to have done would be to acknowledge the investigation and withhold comment, until the DoJ was prepared to discuss it publicly.

This is why it's always dumb to say 'on my attorneys' advice....' and then not follow said advice in the next appearance.

Aaron747 wrote:

This is why it's always dumb to say 'on my attorneys' advice....' and then not follow said advice in the next appearance.

Absolutely correct. Unfortunately, in the absence of commentary, the media will endlessly speculate, and the desire to manage & limit the resulting damage in the news cycle, is compellingly strong. Especially for politicians who endlessly strive to shape public perceptions.

The Boeing CEO acknowledged this in the recent investor conference. The lesson learned was to just not comment on certification, no matter how bad the media coverage was, and let the FAA be the authoritative source of public information.

Same principle applies to the DoJ here. They become the authoritative source, once the investigation begins.

Just to summarize:

The National Archives, under the MAGA administration (he can simply think and documents are declassified, you know) said not one word about Biden's documents. All of a sudden, there are boxes and boxes of them everywhere Biden has been under the former administration. All this has happened, of course, since the former guy decided the classified documents are his to do with as he pleases and show to whomever and have out for any reason anywhere. All while the National Archives were demanding their return.

Why wasn't the National Archives demanding and serving warrants to Biden? They didn't know? But they know about all other presidents' and vice-presidents' documents? Everyone but Biden?

seb146 wrote:

Just to summarize:

The National Archives, under the MAGA administration (he can simply think and documents are declassified, you know) said not one word about Biden's documents. All of a sudden, there are boxes and boxes of them everywhere Biden has been under the former administration. All this has happened, of course, since the former guy decided the classified documents are his to do with as he pleases and show to whomever and have out for any reason anywhere. All while the National Archives were demanding their return.

Why wasn't the National Archives demanding and serving warrants to Biden? They didn't know? But they know about all other presidents' and vice-presidents' documents? Everyone but Biden?

Before we go down the conspiracy path, it could simply be that Biden had copies and the originals are already in the Archives. Which seems perhaps more likely as he was VP at the time.

We know that Trump had originals because the Archives had records of them, but not the materials themselves. Which is what prompted the request to return them. And he as President, would be more likely to have originals in his possession.

If someone made copies and they weren't recorded, that in itself is a flaw in the system, which still needs to be investigated. Every copy is supposed to be logged and documented.

Bottom line is we need to wait for the investigation to complete, to learn what the materials were, where they came from, who was responsible, etc. Until then, we are mostly speculating.

In Trump's case, we know a lot more because of the search warrant and resultant legal activity. We know at least the classification level of the documents he had, and that he boxed them up and took them as he was leaving office. For Biden, that information should be coming out when the DoJ is ready.

Avatar2go wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Just to summarize:

The National Archives, under the MAGA administration (he can simply think and documents are declassified, you know) said not one word about Biden's documents. All of a sudden, there are boxes and boxes of them everywhere Biden has been under the former administration. All this has happened, of course, since the former guy decided the classified documents are his to do with as he pleases and show to whomever and have out for any reason anywhere. All while the National Archives were demanding their return.

Why wasn't the National Archives demanding and serving warrants to Biden? They didn't know? But they know about all other presidents' and vice-presidents' documents? Everyone but Biden?

Before we go down the conspiracy path, it could simply be that Biden had copies and the originals are already in the Archives. Which seems perhaps more likely as he was VP at the time.

We know that Trump had originals because the Archives had records of them, but not the materials themselves. Which is what prompted the request to return them. And he as President, would be more likely to have originals in his possession.

If someone made copies and they weren't recorded, that in itself is a flaw in the system, which still needs to be investigated. Every copy is supposed to be logged and documented.

Bottom line is we need to wait for the investigation to complete, to learn what the materials were, where they came from, who was responsible, etc. Until then, we are mostly speculating.

In Trump's case, we know a lot more because of the search warrant and resultant legal activity. We know at least the classification level of the documents he had, and that he boxed them up and took them as he was leaving office. For Biden, that information should be coming out when the DoJ is ready.

All these people now saying "WE NEED MORE GOVERNMENT!!!" are the same people shouting "WE NEED LESS GOVERNMENT!!!"

DOJ investigating one president for blatantly taking documents he had no right (allegedly per legal) to take is vastly different than DOJ investigating to make sure if he had a right or not and when. To see if the guy turning himself in is playing by the rules. Republicans DEMAND!!! accountability against the backdrop of George Santos is hilarious to me.

I wonder how many similar (to Biden) documents ended up in Reagan's possession after 1988 or GHWB's possession after 1992 or Ford's possession after 1976....

KPTKRampy wrote:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/politics/live-news/garland-attorney-general-statement-01-12-23/index.html

Garland’s appointed a special counsel.

The people that believe the special counsel appointment for trump’s documents is politically motivated can sit down now.

It's politically motivated for the DNC too, they're done with him, so it's a win/win. This is my opinion and was the subject of the opening segment tonight on Tucker, who is an opinion host.

afcjets wrote:

KPTKRampy wrote:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/politics/live-news/garland-attorney-general-statement-01-12-23/index.html

Garland’s appointed a special counsel.

The people that believe the special counsel appointment for trump’s documents is politically motivated can sit down now.

It's politically motivated for the DNC too, they're done with him, so it's a win/win. This is my opinion and was the subject of the opening segment tonight on Tucker, who is an opinion host.

If permanently confused Tucker says it, then it must be true!

Aaron747 wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

BobRoss wrote:

Aaaaaand here come the Democrat Party hacks who think the documents were "planted" in Biden's garage and offices (despite Biden admitting today on live TV he knew of them):
First up, Joy Behar; second, Hank "Guam might tip over and capsize" Johnson: https://twitter.com/MagaMastriano/statu ... 4802666498
If Whoppi is the sane voice in the room, you know they've lost their minds.

"The View" is not Democratic party hacks, it's a current events gossip show. There are no authoritative sources or reporting involved. There is no particular credence associated with anything they say. It's just opinion, and unqualified at that.

Sources in the DoJ said that Garland felt compelled to appoint a special counsel because the White House had made incomplete statements earlier in the week. Which points out the same difficulty Trump got himself into, if you address an ongoing investigation before it's complete, you set yourself up for elevated risk.

Best thing to have done would be to acknowledge the investigation and withhold comment, until the DoJ was prepared to discuss it publicly.

This is why it's always dumb to say 'on my attorneys' advice....' and then not follow said advice in the next appearance.

I'm going to have to disagree here. When asked, a POTUS not commenting on being the subject of an investigation is just not going to fly.

luckyone wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

"The View" is not Democratic party hacks, it's a current events gossip show. There are no authoritative sources or reporting involved. There is no particular credence associated with anything they say. It's just opinion, and unqualified at that.

Sources in the DoJ said that Garland felt compelled to appoint a special counsel because the White House had made incomplete statements earlier in the week. Which points out the same difficulty Trump got himself into, if you address an ongoing investigation before it's complete, you set yourself up for elevated risk.

Best thing to have done would be to acknowledge the investigation and withhold comment, until the DoJ was prepared to discuss it publicly.

This is why it's always dumb to say 'on my attorneys' advice....' and then not follow said advice in the next appearance.

I'm going to have to disagree here. When asked, a POTUS not commenting on being the subject of an investigation is just not going to fly.

But it is the right thing to do. NOT commenting on an ongoing investigation happens all the time for the sake of investigators. Look at the Moscow, Idaho murders. There is still an investigation going on and no one is commenting. Because commenting could potentially spoil the investigation. Recall that, when the search warrant was legally executed at Mar-A-Lago looking for specific documents (not trashing the whole property for no reason), who was the first to start spouting off about it? Not those investigating because that could potentially cause harm to the investigation.

luckyone wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

This is why it's always dumb to say 'on my attorneys' advice....' and then not follow said advice in the next appearance.

I'm going to have to disagree here. When asked, a POTUS not commenting on being the subject of an investigation is just not going to fly.

Therein lies the rub, the proverbial rock and a hard place. Using the Boeing example again, Muilenburg tried to get out in front of the story, and it damaged him every time.

As Calhoun said, you just have to remain mum, no matter how bad it gets. That means standing by quietly as all kinds of false things are speculated in the press.

Biden was going to take a hit here no matter what. But it's best in the long run, if the hit doesn't come from your own words.

Here are some further details about what happened:

1. The National Archives does not send representatives to oversee the VP records retention process, as is done for the White House Presidential records. But staff are provided with guidelines for document separation.

2. The GSA offers permanent storage space for Presidential records, but VP records only for 6 months. Thus those records were subsequently moved to the offices of Penn-Biden Center, as well as his home, when the GSA space expired.

3. Biden continued to work up until the last day, meaning that new classified documents were being brought in as the existing were being separated and packed for the Archives.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/12/politics ... index.html

Why is this so difficult, yet every shavetail LT does right, at least, right after the first time they’re investigated for missing or forgotten classified. We had a classified package for every OCONUS trip, left with the CP on every overnight. Leave on the plane locked on the gun box—wrong! I had an Lt who got caught. Leave at the CP and not have it. Oops, contact the last CP, get a destruction receipt mailed to you. I had a bucket at the office which had all my destruction receipts over the years. Just. In. Case. People go to jail for these violations, an LOR is a slap on the wrist. But, if you’re connected, all’s forgiven.

I don’t forgive any of these politicians, clowns one and all. Never give them anything greater than a penny.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Why is this so difficult, yet every shavetail LT does right, at least, right after the first time they’re investigated for missing or forgotten classified. We had a classified package for every OCONUS trip, left with the CP on every overnight. Leave on the plane locked on the gun box—wrong! I had an Lt who got caught. Leave at the CP and not have it. Oops, contact the last CP, get a destruction receipt mailed to you. I had a bucket at the office which had all my destruction receipts over the years. Just. In. Case. People go to jail for these violations, an LOR is a slap on the wrist. But, if you’re connected, all’s forgiven.

I don’t forgive any of these politicians, clowns one and all. Never give them anything greater than a penny.

Yet they are all elected by Citizens to be in charge of that great experiment we call democracy within a Federal Republic. They have to have all the secure data, because they are the ones we are trusting to make the ultimate decisions.

In this case as pointed out by Avatar, there is a level of bad handling to which the Archives needs to create a good process on VP documents.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Why is this so difficult, yet every shavetail LT does right, at least, right after the first time they’re investigated for missing or forgotten classified. We had a classified package for every OCONUS trip, left with the CP on every overnight. Leave on the plane locked on the gun box—wrong! I had an Lt who got caught. Leave at the CP and not have it. Oops, contact the last CP, get a destruction receipt mailed to you. I had a bucket at the office which had all my destruction receipts over the years. Just. In. Case. People go to jail for these violations, an LOR is a slap on the wrist. But, if you’re connected, all’s forgiven.

I don’t forgive any of these politicians, clowns one and all. Never give them anything greater than a penny.

Did you ever have a ONUBIS one? My AI and HG were working one night and completely forgot to fill out the ONUBIS at the end of their shift. The YP, MJ and BO had a fit and directed the senior DQ to start an investigation. What a CF it was.

No matter what, Biden has been damaged by these disclosures, compounding other issues around him many criticizes him for. I think eventually, this, the actions of his son Hunter, anger of not dealing with real inflation, 'social wokeness' tags on Democrats in general, will along with his old age lead to his withdrawal from running in 2024.

ltbewr wrote:

No matter what, Biden has been damaged by these disclosures, compounding other issues around him many criticizes him for. I think eventually, this, the actions of his son Hunter, anger of not dealing with real inflation, 'social wokeness' tags on Democrats in general, will along with his old age lead to his withdrawal from running in 2024.

I will feel for you when the Brandon Imperium mints the $1 trillion coin and pays all the debt (because that's how capitalist, complex economies work - the economy shrinks if the government doesn't have a deficit), Republicans overreach on another social issue and decline another ten points, and the committees "investigating" Hunter just flash peen pics on CSPAN for 6 weeks straight, and everyone wonders why they gave MTG a microphone.

It's looking a lot like 2011 right now, except they didn't win some huge House majority. The lurch to the right will come with consequences.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Why is this so difficult, yet every shavetail LT does right, at least, right after the first time they’re investigated for missing or forgotten classified. We had a classified package for every OCONUS trip, left with the CP on every overnight. Leave on the plane locked on the gun box—wrong! I had an Lt who got caught. Leave at the CP and not have it. Oops, contact the last CP, get a destruction receipt mailed to you. I had a bucket at the office which had all my destruction receipts over the years. Just. In. Case. People go to jail for these violations, an LOR is a slap on the wrist. But, if you’re connected, all’s forgiven.

I don’t forgive any of these politicians, clowns one and all. Never give them anything greater than a penny.

These are all good points. And classified materials being misplaced or randomly taken just shouldn't happen, period.

One difference though, is that as the article states, the final packing is often delegated to low-level political staffers. These are the people who volunteer for campaigns, then get a job in the administration for a few years as a reward. It's a traditional stepping stone to employment in the government.

Reporting on both the Trump and Biden departures describes them as hectic, which is not a good practice. I suspect that will change when Biden departs office this time, there will be a much more rigorous effort to be sure the custody of classified materials is properly accounted at the end.

All that said, there is still a critical difference in Trump claiming both that the materials were not classified, and that they belonged to him. If there is criminal liabilty associated with any of this, I suspect it will be related to those two points.

Avatar2go wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Why is this so difficult, yet every shavetail LT does right, at least, right after the first time they’re investigated for missing or forgotten classified. We had a classified package for every OCONUS trip, left with the CP on every overnight. Leave on the plane locked on the gun box—wrong! I had an Lt who got caught. Leave at the CP and not have it. Oops, contact the last CP, get a destruction receipt mailed to you. I had a bucket at the office which had all my destruction receipts over the years. Just. In. Case. People go to jail for these violations, an LOR is a slap on the wrist. But, if you’re connected, all’s forgiven.

I don’t forgive any of these politicians, clowns one and all. Never give them anything greater than a penny.

These are all good points. And classified materials being misplaced or randomly taken just shouldn't happen, period.

One difference though, is that as the article states, the final packing is often delegated to low-level political staffers. These are the people who volunteer for campaigns, then get a job in the administration for a few years as a reward. It's a traditional stepping stone to employment in the government.

Reporting on both the Trump and Biden departures describes them as hectic, which is not a good practice. I suspect that will change when Biden departs office this time, there will be a much more rigorous effort to be sure the custody of classified materials is properly accounted at the end.

All that said, there is still a critical difference in Trump claiming both that the materials were not classified, and that they belonged to him. If there is criminal liabilty associated with any of this, I suspect it will be related to those two points.

Yes, at the end of the day, investigation must be done, but mostly to determine intent. The simple fact that materials were improperly handled is a foregone conclusion.

Maybe this will cause Biden to admit that maybe he shouldn't run in 2024.

johns624 wrote:

Maybe this will cause Biden to admit that maybe he shouldn't run in 2024.

Seriously. Enough of this septuagenarian POTUS nonsense. The silly thing is that the Biden WH is actually operating pretty well on the policy front, but their PR presence and pulse of the nation are rather poor. Always one step forward the right back into a pothole.

Avatar2go wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Why is this so difficult, yet every shavetail LT does right, at least, right after the first time they’re investigated for missing or forgotten classified. We had a classified package for every OCONUS trip, left with the CP on every overnight. Leave on the plane locked on the gun box—wrong! I had an Lt who got caught. Leave at the CP and not have it. Oops, contact the last CP, get a destruction receipt mailed to you. I had a bucket at the office which had all my destruction receipts over the years. Just. In. Case. People go to jail for these violations, an LOR is a slap on the wrist. But, if you’re connected, all’s forgiven.

I don’t forgive any of these politicians, clowns one and all. Never give them anything greater than a penny.

These are all good points. And classified materials being misplaced or randomly taken just shouldn't happen, period.

One difference though, is that as the article states, the final packing is often delegated to low-level political staffers. These are the people who volunteer for campaigns, then get a job in the administration for a few years as a reward. It's a traditional stepping stone to employment in the government.

Reporting on both the Trump and Biden departures describes them as hectic, which is not a good practice. I suspect that will change when Biden departs office this time, there will be a much more rigorous effort to be sure the custody of classified materials is properly accounted at the end.

All that said, there is still a critical difference in Trump claiming both that the materials were not classified, and that they belonged to him. If there is criminal liabilty associated with any of this, I suspect it will be related to those two points.

We delegated the classified to the lowest ranking pilot, an Lt or Lt Col, if three of us flew together. Does. Not. Matter. Those handling classified need to be trained, audited and held to account. We did it, they can do it. If you’re a low ranking flunkie, man up, learn classified management. Having a security clearance revoked is a serious consequence, even without a felony charge.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

We delegated the classified to the lowest ranking pilot, an Lt or Lt Col, if three of us flew together. Does. Not. Matter. Those handling classified need to be trained, audited and held to account. We did it, they can do it. If you’re a low ranking flunkie, man up, learn classified management. Having a security clearance revoked is a serious consequence, even without a felony charge.

Please note, I never said it couldn't or shouldn't be done, or that it couldn't be trained. In fact I agreed with you on all those points.

What I said, was that the people packing are inexperienced and are receiving minimal guidance just before they do the work, and are leaving their jobs immediately after. Not exactly the ideal circumstances for identifying and handling potentially classified materials.

This is what needs to change, and hopefully will change, going forward. And will be the value of investigating it properly, instead of jumping to conclusions.

Question: Why isn't the FBI doing the search of documents at Biden's home?? Instead "Lawyers" are being trusted to do a complete search??

Lawyers for President Joe Biden found more classified documents at his home in Wilmington, Delaware, than previously known, the White House acknowledged Saturday.

https://apnews.com/article/biden-united ... 5205df3dc0

White House lawyer Richard Sauber said in a statement that a total of six pages of classified documents were found during a search of Biden’s private library. The White House had said previously that only a single page was found there.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Question: Why isn't the FBI doing the search of documents at Biden's home?? Instead "Lawyers" are being trusted to do a complete search??

Lawyers for President Joe Biden found more classified documents at his home in Wilmington, Delaware, than previously known, the White House acknowledged Saturday.

https://apnews.com/article/biden-united ... 5205df3dc0

White House lawyer Richard Sauber said in a statement that a total of six pages of classified documents were found during a search of Biden’s private library. The White House had said previously that only a single page was found there.

Because Biden is fully cooperating with investigators.

You are treated differently if you are cooperative from the start, versus someone who resists, ignores, and obstructs requests every step of the way.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Question: Why isn't the FBI doing the search of documents at Biden's home?? Instead "Lawyers" are being trusted to do a complete search??

Important to remember that Trump lawyers were given the opportunity to perform searches of Trump properties, first at the request of the National Archives, and then of the DoJ. In fact they were given more than a year to conduct multiple searches, conducting at least three in which they produced classified records.

The FBI only became involved when it became clear that Trump was withholding documents, and that his team had made false claims, including falsifying an affidavit. That is what triggered the warrant and the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago. This only became necessary due to lack of cooperation, and outright lies that were put forward by Trump in his public statements.

Further after that search warrant was executed, the DoJ again allowed the Trump legal team to conduct searches of his other properties, which produced still more classified records in December 2022.

Trump and his supporters have repeatedly made the claim that he's been persecuted by the DoJ, and not given equal treatment, but the courts have rejected that claim at every turn. It's complete & utter nonsense.

This business of trying to find an equivalence between Biden and Trump, or even Clinton and Trump, has become ridiculous. No rational person would conclude the circumstances are the same.

BobRoss wrote:

Aaaaaand here come the Democrat Party hacks who think the documents were "planted" in Biden's garage and offices (despite Biden admitting today on live TV he knew of them):
First up, Joy Behar; second, Hank "Guam might tip over and capsize" Johnson: https://twitter.com/MagaMastriano/statu ... 4802666498
If Whoppi is the sane voice in the room, you know they've lost their minds.

"Lost their minds..."

Please pray tell exactly the meaning of why Whoopi Goldberg's spin on the Docs or anything means...because this has the stench of blatant sexism at a minimum. Or is this combined Biden slam as well..?

BN747

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Question: Why isn't the FBI doing the search of documents at Biden's home?? Instead "Lawyers" are being trusted to do a complete search??

Lawyers for President Joe Biden found more classified documents at his home in Wilmington, Delaware, than previously known, the White House acknowledged Saturday.

https://apnews.com/article/biden-united ... 5205df3dc0

White House lawyer Richard Sauber said in a statement that a total of six pages of classified documents were found during a search of Biden’s private library. The White House had said previously that only a single page was found there.

Seriously, you need to ask why there's a difference? Why do you think? To most people, the difference is blindingly obvious.

Aaron747 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Maybe this will cause Biden to admit that maybe he shouldn't run in 2024.

Seriously. Enough of this septuagenarian POTUS nonsense. The silly thing is that the Biden WH is actually operating pretty well on the policy front, but their PR presence and pulse of the nation are rather poor. Always one step forward the right back into a pothole.

Funny how Reagan years til late hard no problem with Nancy whispering in his and telling him what to say, I still stand by my belief he had Alzheimers before he first took office and Bush Sr/CIA knew.

But we did get see his mental decline with our own eyes no matter how hard the tried to mask it.

Now we have Biden, only continuing his lifelong disability of stuttering (my brother grew up with as well) and yet they are deep thinking people with difficulty delivering his words with laser like precision. Now, the same people of which St. Reagan could do no wrong are launching volleys at Sleepy Joe.

Don't let that same mentality suck you into their world of ever changing for the worse and redefining inhumanity every step of the way.


BN747

BN747 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Maybe this will cause Biden to admit that maybe he shouldn't run in 2024.

Seriously. Enough of this septuagenarian POTUS nonsense. The silly thing is that the Biden WH is actually operating pretty well on the policy front, but their PR presence and pulse of the nation are rather poor. Always one step forward the right back into a pothole.

Funny how Reagan years til late hard no problem with Nancy whispering in his and telling him what to say, I still stand by my belief he had Alzheimers before he first took office and Bush Sr/CIA knew.

But we did get see his mental decline with our own eyes no matter how hard the tried to mask it.

Now we have Biden, only continuing his lifelong disability of stuttering (my brother grew up with as well) and yet they are deep thinking people with difficulty delivering his words with laser like precision. Now, the same people of which St. Reagan could do no wrong are launching volleys at Sleepy Joe.

Don't let that same mentality suck you into their world of ever changing for the worse and redefining inhumanity every step of the way.


BN747

We're not being "sucked into" anything. Biden is 80 now. If he runs again, he'll be 86 by the end of his second term. That's way too old to be POTUS. The job runs even a much younger man down.