Aaron747 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Maybe this will cause Biden to admit that maybe he shouldn't run in 2024.

Seriously. Enough of this septuagenarian POTUS nonsense. The silly thing is that the Biden WH is actually operating pretty well on the policy front, but their PR presence and pulse of the nation are rather poor. Always one step forward the right back into a pothole.

Sadly that is true. Now some of the Biden haters are suggesting that as Hunter uses his father's residence for his 'home' address, that Hunter had access to sensitive documents he could see, take and sell to foreign parties. The situation is getting worse and being leveraged by Trump and his supporters to try to deflect from his own acts.

ltbewr wrote:

The situation is getting worse

How is the situation getting worse? It appears nothing has changed regarding all of these classified documents for months and maybe years.

IPFreely wrote:

ltbewr wrote:

The situation is getting worse

How is the situation getting worse? It appears nothing has changed regarding all of these classified documents for months and maybe years.

I think he means that Trump supporters are increasingly using the false equivalency to justify the Trump administration's alleged misdeeds.

Kent350787 wrote:

IPFreely wrote:

ltbewr wrote:

The situation is getting worse

How is the situation getting worse? It appears nothing has changed regarding all of these classified documents for months and maybe years.

I think he means that Trump supporters are increasingly using the false equivalency to justify the Trump administration's alleged misdeeds.

Yes, the tone of equivalence and righteousness has been ramping up over the weekend. Going after Biden for not having visitor logs at his home is a good example. There is no rational thinking or reason involved in the claims being made. It's like Rush and Tucker had a bunch of offspring who have taken over the party.

Further they are dragging out the Hillary e-mail story again, as another false equivalence. And Speaker McCarthy is in it up to his eyeballs, as usual. He's nothing if not loyal to Trump and the MAGA's

To be clear, no party in this has a claim of righteousness. No classified materials should fall through the cracks, doesn't matter which party or who is responsible. But they are scraping every barrel to make the equivalence claim, ignoring and evading the issue of intent, for which Trump alone is culpable.

ltbewr wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Maybe this will cause Biden to admit that maybe he shouldn't run in 2024.

Seriously. Enough of this septuagenarian POTUS nonsense. The silly thing is that the Biden WH is actually operating pretty well on the policy front, but their PR presence and pulse of the nation are rather poor. Always one step forward the right back into a pothole.

Sadly that is true. Now some of the Biden haters are suggesting that as Hunter uses his father's residence for his 'home' address, that Hunter had access to sensitive documents he could see, take and sell to foreign parties. The situation is getting worse and being leveraged by Trump and his supporters to try to deflect from his own acts.

This is pure speculation on my part, but it seems the vice president would have access to far fewer classified and top secret documents than the president. Also, knowing, as we know now, the vice president and his/her offices are under much less scrutiny when moving out, security officers would not want sensitive documents to be in those offices. Of course, the vice president must have some documents in their possession, but which ones and how long are they classified is a good question.

As far as the Hunter angle, stop. That always makes MAGAs look desperate. Hunter had zero to do with this. It was not even an issue until now. If one wants to play "both sides do it" this is a losing effort, especially with this. President Biden returned the documents and is also cooperating with all agencies with this investigation. Because "both sides do it" let's see the former occupant return all documents and cooperate fully. Or, Biden could simply keep all documents because they are his and how dare anyone investigate him. I would love to see what the media and MAGAs with that.

Both sides will point fingers at the other guy and defend their own guy. That’s politics 101.

Point #1 - the two cases are superficially similar but not equivalent. Any fair-minded person can see that.

Point #2 - the fact that there even ARE two cases is problematic and embarrassing for the Biden side. It is self-inflicted damage. Any fair-minded person can also see that.

QF7

I suspect that when this all shakes out, there will be a tightening of the rules surrounding classified documents, as there should be. But Biden will not be viewed as criminally liable, just as Hillary was not. There is no evidence of intent.

Trump is a different matter, but charging him without charging Biden, will now be seen by the MAGAs as entirely political, as they will ignore the evidentiary basis for intent, as they always have with regard to Trump.

That will make it difficult for the DoJ to hold Trump accountable, so Biden has probably provided him with an unofficial pardon. The MAGAs can help ensure that by making the biggest ruckus possible, which they are sure to do.

Kent350787 wrote:

IPFreely wrote:

ltbewr wrote:

The situation is getting worse

How is the situation getting worse? It appears nothing has changed regarding all of these classified documents for months and maybe years.

I think he means that Trump supporters are increasingly using the false equivalency to justify the Trump administration's alleged misdeeds.

Thanks — yes I can see it now. He isn’t concerned about classified documents he just doesn’t want the story to stay in the news. It’s the reporting of the event not the event itself that is “the situation”.

Biden White House faces transparency questions as document drama continues

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-w ... d=96483493

There are still several outstanding questions the White House has not answered.

One primary question is why wasn't the DOJ investigation wasn't made public until two months after the first documents were found. Another is what prompted the president's personal lawyers to go back to his Wilmington Home on Jan. 11, after document discoveries in November, before the midterms, and in December.

Reporters have also asked Biden whether he will agree to sit down for an interview with the special counsel but, so far, have no answers.

Finally, the question as to what exactly is in the classified documents has not been answered by the White House.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Biden White House faces transparency questions as document drama continues

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-w ... d=96483493

There are still several outstanding questions the White House has not answered.

One primary question is why wasn't the DOJ investigation wasn't made public until two months after the first documents were found. Another is what prompted the president's personal lawyers to go back to his Wilmington Home on Jan. 11, after document discoveries in November, before the midterms, and in December.

Reporters have also asked Biden whether he will agree to sit down for an interview with the special counsel but, so far, have no answers.

Finally, the question as to what exactly is in the classified documents has not been answered by the White House.

Stupid not to answer. He has to sit down with the special counsel - it not, same obstruction as Trump.

Aaron747 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Biden White House faces transparency questions as document drama continues

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-w ... d=96483493

There are still several outstanding questions the White House has not answered.

One primary question is why wasn't the DOJ investigation wasn't made public until two months after the first documents were found. Another is what prompted the president's personal lawyers to go back to his Wilmington Home on Jan. 11, after document discoveries in November, before the midterms, and in December.

Reporters have also asked Biden whether he will agree to sit down for an interview with the special counsel but, so far, have no answers.

Finally, the question as to what exactly is in the classified documents has not been answered by the White House.

Stupid not to answer. He has to sit down with the special counsel - it not, same obstruction as Trump.

To be fair, he's cooperated, made statements, and tried to deal with it as best as possible, and his AG appointed a special counsel.
Trump lied to the National Archives and the FBI until they, credibly, issued a search warrant and stormed Mar a Lago to forcibly retrieve the documents.

Come now, the two can't possibly be equal. I agree that it's not smart to play it close to the vest, but there are good reasons for this. It's best to go to the podium with 1/2 the facts than 1/8. The sense I get is they are very much still determining the extent of the breach.

bluecrew wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Biden White House faces transparency questions as document drama continues

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-w ... d=96483493

There are still several outstanding questions the White House has not answered.

One primary question is why wasn't the DOJ investigation wasn't made public until two months after the first documents were found. Another is what prompted the president's personal lawyers to go back to his Wilmington Home on Jan. 11, after document discoveries in November, before the midterms, and in December.

Reporters have also asked Biden whether he will agree to sit down for an interview with the special counsel but, so far, have no answers.

Finally, the question as to what exactly is in the classified documents has not been answered by the White House.

Stupid not to answer. He has to sit down with the special counsel - it not, same obstruction as Trump.

To be fair, he's cooperated, made statements, and tried to deal with it as best as possible, and his AG appointed a special counsel.
Trump lied to the National Archives and the FBI until they, credibly, issued a search warrant and stormed Mar a Lago to forcibly retrieve the documents.

Come now, the two can't possibly be equal. I agree that it's not smart to play it close to the vest, but there are good reasons for this. It's best to go to the podium with 1/2 the facts than 1/8. The sense I get is they are very much still determining the extent of the breach.

I didn’t say the background is equal, but the optics are, especially to MAGAworld. The correct answer was: of course, if any meeting is requested by the SC, I will cooperate fully. There is no need for any hedging.

President from political party A mishandles documents: matters? Matters not?
President from political party B mishandles documents: matters? Matters not?

art wrote:

President from political party A mishandles documents: matters? Matters not?
President from political party B mishandles documents: matters? Matters not?

Taking documents he had no right to take is not the same as a staffer with zero oversight taking documents. There is a very good link up the thread about how vice presidential documents are treated. Also, returning documents as soon as they were found and without asking is vastly different than complaining, whining, and defying the law. Besides, if someone can simply think documents out of being classified, who's to say Biden didn't think these documents into being declassified?

seb146 wrote:

art wrote:

President from political party A mishandles documents: matters? Matters not?
President from political party B mishandles documents: matters? Matters not?

Taking documents he had no right to take is not the same as a staffer with zero oversight taking documents.

That would be my view, too, but I'm not an American dyed-in-the-wool politico wanting nothing to happen to 'my' president while wanting 'the other side's' president hanged, drawn and quartered for a similar misdemeanour.

art wrote:

seb146 wrote:

art wrote:

President from political party A mishandles documents: matters? Matters not?
President from political party B mishandles documents: matters? Matters not?

Taking documents he had no right to take is not the same as a staffer with zero oversight taking documents.

That would be my view, too, but I'm not an American dyed-in-the-wool politico wanting nothing to happen to 'my' president while wanting 'the other side's' president hanged, drawn and quartered for a similar misdemeanour.

I'll accept the hanging, without drawing & quartering if that helps. So long as it's short drop.

art wrote:

seb146 wrote:

art wrote:

President from political party A mishandles documents: matters? Matters not?
President from political party B mishandles documents: matters? Matters not?

Taking documents he had no right to take is not the same as a staffer with zero oversight taking documents.

That would be my view, too, but I'm not an American dyed-in-the-wool politico wanting nothing to happen to 'my' president while wanting 'the other side's' president hanged, drawn and quartered for a similar misdemeanour.

Actually, polls show Democrats WANT this investigated.

https://news.yahoo.com/poll-two-thirds- ... 33335.html

Keep in mind, also, that once the documents were discovered, they were returned. Not only that, Biden did not block inquiries and investigations into the documents. As was pointed out up the thread, packing documents was left to staffers. Which should not have been.

Republicans whine and carry on about how the MAGA investigations are partisan but have no problem being partisan when it comes to Democrats. If Biden jaywalked, they would demand impeachment proceedings begin immediately. As corrupt as politicians are, Republicans can not nor will ever accept the fact that their elected officials are law breakers. Republicans will defend their law breaking leaders while pointing to nothing even close to the same thing and insist that "both sides do it".

If you are asking if I think politicians of any party are being 100% honest in what they tell the public, well, no I don't.

Had those docs from the Biden-Penn office not been discovered, we never would have heard about this.

Unfortunately, the Biden Administration keeps stepping on rakes. Or, maybe it's just people inside the Biden Administration with their own 2024 aspirations that are trying to derail his chances at running for re-election, which wouldn't surprise me either.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

Eolesen wrote:

Maybe I've read too many John Grisham novels, but anything seriously incriminating in a Biden property was probably accidentally incinerated months ago... which is why believing that Biden and the WH lawyers are really more interested in protecting the country versus protecting their client is laughable.


Mar-A-Lago was raided hoping they'd find things that hadn't been identified or disclosed by Trump's lawyers. That will never happen with Biden's Delaware residence or any other place he has used as an office or residence. They've now had three months scrub the places down, so there's probably not much point trying, right?

That’s a rather charitable description of the rationale behind the raid. Perhaps you have not read the letters between Trump’s reps and NAR/DOJ.

In the larger picture, none of these documents are actually important to anyone except a career archivist... if they were truly seriously highly confidential super secret documents, they wouldn't have been left in anybody's hands, and certainly not relegated to an hourly wage staffer packing up boxes to make room for the next occupant of the office....

This is one of those "if you go looking for a violation, you'll evenyually find a violation" scenarios.

Unless they chose not to take anything with them, I seriously doubt there is a single former Cabinet member or high ranking elected official who doesn't have some document or file in their personal files or on a laptop that they're not supposed to have under the letter of the law. People are trying to make a death penalty felony out of what amounts to little more than a violation of process and policy. This wasn't removing confidential documents to give to a hostile foreign government..

The only thing really worth calling out is the double standard that seems to be applied depending on which team you're on or against.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

Eolesen wrote:

In the larger picture, none of these documents are actually important to anyone except a career archivist... if they were truly seriously highly confidential super secret documents, they wouldn't have been left in anybody's hands, and certainly not relegated to an hourly wage staffer packing up boxes to make room for the next occupant of the office....

This is one of those "if you go looking for a violation, you'll evenyually find a violation" scenarios.

Unless they chose not to take anything with them, I seriously doubt there is a single former Cabinet member or high ranking elected official who doesn't have some document or file in their personal files or on a laptop that they're not supposed to have under the letter of the law. People are trying to make a death penalty felony out of what amounts to little more than a violation of process and policy. This wasn't removing confidential documents to give to a hostile foreign government..

The only thing really worth calling out is the double standard that seems to be applied depending on which team you're on or against.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

A lot of assumptions there. The purpose of investigation is to determine the level of sensitivity of content and their use, in both cases.

And the double standard is not about partisan ‘team’, rather wealth/level of influence and access to legal shielding. Rank-and-file government employees can get in a lot of trouble (and have) for mishandling classified materials. Officials and political staffers seem to get a slap on the wrist at most...that’s the double standard.

Eolesen wrote:

In the larger picture, none of these documents are actually important to anyone except a career archivist...

Interesting. How have you determined this?

Eolesen wrote:

Unless they chose not to take anything with them, I seriously doubt there is a single former Cabinet member or high ranking elected official who doesn't have some document or file in their personal files or on a laptop that they're not supposed to have under the letter of the law. People are trying to make a death penalty felony out of what amounts to little more than a violation of process and policy. This wasn't removing confidential documents to give to a hostile foreign government..

The only thing really worth calling out is the double standard that seems to be applied depending on which team you're on or against.

The crucial difference, as has been explained endlessly, but MAGA's willfully refuse to understand, is that someone found to have inadvertantly taken those documents, gives them back voluntarily, without argument or question.

Whereas, someone who took them intentionally, does not give them back, has to be pursued by first the National Archives, then by the DoJ, then by the FBI in a seizure, then finally by a federal judge. After which they file a lawsuit to get the documents back, then appeal all the way to the Supreme Court, who refuse to hear the case because it's so completely ludicrous.

Lastly it's not just a matter of the documents being classified, they are property of the government under the Presidential Records Act. If someone is found to have some scattered records numbering under 100, which were likely copies and not missed by the Archives, that is different from being known to have a concentrated collection of over 11,000 records, which creates a noticeable hole in the Archives.

This is why there is no equivalence, and why the first person is unlikely to face criminal charges, while the second person likely will. It has nothing to do with bias or politics.

At some point, either MAGA's possess the reasoning skills to understand this, or they don't. If they don't, or they refuse, then it's not up to the rest of the nation to humor or accommodate them.

No matter how many words you might try to try and justify why one person is supposedly responsible and the other is irresponsible, the public optics are going to drive this.

The fact that Biden's press secretary is trying to Pivot to the economy versus documents should be telling. They want this to go away, and if DOJ tries to do something to Trump, it will simply blow up for Biden all over again.

And since you're picking nits, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act. If you try to make this a Title 18 issue, there's way too much precedent in the opposite direction from what you are asserting.

Time to move along. Nothing to see here.

Eolesen wrote:

And since you're picking nits, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act. If you try to make this a Title 18 issue, there's way too much precedent in the opposite direction from what you are asserting.

Again the MAGA's demonstrate an inability or refusal to understand the reality. Here are the criminal charges invoked in the warrant, and presented to the Trump grand jury. All have criminal penalties:

18 U.S.C. §§ 793: Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information, which carries a penalty of up to 10 years in prison.

18 U.S.C. §§ 2071: Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally, which carries a penalty of up to three years in prison and disqualification from holding office.

18 U.S.C. §§ 1519: Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy, which carries a penalty of up to 20 years in prison.

The last charge is commonly known as obstruction, and is not in play at all in the Biden case, as he voluntarily disclosed & returned the documents.

Furthermore the first two charges are only in play if the documents were knowingly taken, with intent. There is no evidence of this in the Biden case. Trump signalled his intent when he claimed ownership and sued to get them back, so intent is no longer in question.

The recommendation to charge Trump, or not, will be made by the grand jury. If they recommend, the DoJ will have no choice but to charge him, regardless of the MAGA implosion that will undoubtedly ensue.

The alternative is for justice & the nation to be held hostage by the MAGA's, as the House recently was by the Freedom Caucus. That will not fly with most Americans, they have more integrity & backbone than the current Republican party.

Lastly no grand jury has been convened as of yet for the Biden case. If Biden continues to cooperate fully with the DoJ as overseen by the special counsel Robert Hur, there should be no need for one.

Eolesen wrote:

Maybe I've read too many John Grisham novels, but anything seriously incriminating in a Biden property was probably accidentally incinerated months ago... which is why believing that Biden and the WH lawyers are really more interested in protecting the country versus protecting their client is laughable.


Mar-A-Lago was raided hoping they'd find things that hadn't been identified or disclosed by Trump's lawyers. That will never happen with Biden's Delaware residence or any other place he has used as an office or residence. They've now had three months scrub the places down, so there's probably not much point trying, right?

Where’s the tin foil hat meme when you need it?

Mar-a-Lago was eventually raided because of Trump’s continual refusal to return the documents.

The differences between the cases are not exactly subtle, but apparently way too subtle for the average red cap wearer.

scbriml wrote:

Eolesen wrote:

Maybe I've read too many John Grisham novels, but anything seriously incriminating in a Biden property was probably accidentally incinerated months ago... which is why believing that Biden and the WH lawyers are really more interested in protecting the country versus protecting their client is laughable.


Mar-A-Lago was raided hoping they'd find things that hadn't been identified or disclosed by Trump's lawyers. That will never happen with Biden's Delaware residence or any other place he has used as an office or residence. They've now had three months scrub the places down, so there's probably not much point trying, right?

Where’s the tin foil hat meme when you need it?

Mar-a-Lago was eventually raided because of Trump’s continual refusal to return the documents.

The differences between the cases are not exactly subtle, but apparently way too subtle for the average red cap wearer.

Mar-a-Lago also had armed Secret Service on-site for the entirety of those documents being there, which the DOJ knew about and were negotiating the return of, while ensuring they were kept in a locked safe within the Secret Service guarded office.

Biden’s were in his garage next to his car without any protection detail for SIX YEARS, with access to anyone who entered. Like Hunter. Or Jay Leno. Or Leno’s film crew…


But do go on about the differences. Please…

EA CO AS wrote:

scbriml wrote:

Eolesen wrote:

Maybe I've read too many John Grisham novels, but anything seriously incriminating in a Biden property was probably accidentally incinerated months ago... which is why believing that Biden and the WH lawyers are really more interested in protecting the country versus protecting their client is laughable.


Mar-A-Lago was raided hoping they'd find things that hadn't been identified or disclosed by Trump's lawyers. That will never happen with Biden's Delaware residence or any other place he has used as an office or residence. They've now had three months scrub the places down, so there's probably not much point trying, right?

Where’s the tin foil hat meme when you need it?

Mar-a-Lago was eventually raided because of Trump’s continual refusal to return the documents.

The differences between the cases are not exactly subtle, but apparently way too subtle for the average red cap wearer.

Mar-a-Lago also had armed Secret Service on-site for the entirety of those documents being there, which the DOJ knew about and were negotiating the return of, while ensuring they were kept in a locked safe within the Secret Service guarded office.

Biden’s were in his garage next to his car without any protection detail for SIX YEARS, with access to anyone who entered. Like Hunter. Or Jay Leno. Or Leno’s film crew…


But do go on about the differences. Please…

Oh please. The Secret Service leaves Mar-A -Lago when trump does. They don't vacation in Mar-A-lago while Trump is up at Bedminster or other homes.

Plus Trump and the Secret Service have a history of letting people with no documentation that should have passed scrutiny in.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasre ... 7c4504196a

This is what I think finally triggered the DOJ to issue the warrent.

he FBI has launched an investigation into a Russian-speaking Ukrainian immigrant named Inna Yashchyshyn, who allegedly posed as a member of the Rothschild banking family to gain access to former President Donald Trump's inner circle at Mar-a-Lago, according to reporting from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project.

I guess thw two sides look alike when you have long term memory issues of what actually happened.

EA CO AS wrote:

Mar-a-Lago also had armed Secret Service on-site for the entirety of those documents being there, which the DOJ knew about and were negotiating the return of, while ensuring they were kept in a locked safe within the Secret Service guarded office.

It's cute you think the Secret Service is guarding something at Mar-a-Lago 24/7 even when Trump isn't there. While the DOJ may have been negotiating, the process requires both sides to be engaged. One side clearly wasn't negotiating because he believed he can just declassify documents by just the power of thought. He negotiated so well (let's not forget he's the master negotiator!), that the FBI raided the joint!

Avatar2go wrote:

Lastly no grand jury has been convened as of yet for the Biden case.

Since grand juries are normally convened and operate in secrecy without public announcement this is very interesting.

IPFreely wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

Lastly no grand jury has been convened as of yet for the Biden case.

Since grand juries are normally convened and operate in secrecy without public announcement this is very interesting.

Grand jury proceedings are secret, but their convening is not, it's a matter of public record. Their meetings are on the public court docket.

EA CO AS wrote:

Mar-a-Lago also had armed Secret Service on-site for the entirety of those documents being there, which the DOJ knew about and were negotiating the return of, while ensuring they were kept in a locked safe within the Secret Service guarded office.

Biden’s were in his garage next to his car without any protection detail for SIX YEARS, with access to anyone who entered. Like Hunter. Or Jay Leno. Or Leno’s film crew…

But do go on about the differences. Please…

This is yet another failure of MAGA reasoning skills. Biden also had Secret Service protection at his home. But it's irrelevant in both cases, because the offense has nothing to do with providing guards for documents you shouldn't have.

It's about removing those documents from the official & lawful chain of custody, the intent involved in removing them, and the cooperation involved in returning them. Those are the Title 18 statutes that are in question here.

Avatar2go wrote:

Biden also had Secret Service protection at his home.

Actually his secret service protection as a former VP ended in June 2017 and did not resume until midway thru the 2020 presidential campaign. But please continue...

IPFreely wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

Biden also had Secret Service protection at his home.

Actually his secret service protection as a former VP ended in June 2017 and did not resume until midway thru the 2020 presidential campaign. But please continue...

As stated, it's irrelevant. There is no charge against Trump or Biden for not providing security for documents they were not supposed to have. In both cases, the documents were in locked locations.

In the case of Biden, the documents were moved to his residence at about the same time his Secret Service coverage expired. However the presence of classified documents was unknown to anyone at the time.

In the case of Trump, the presence of classified documents was known from the start, as they were taken intentionally. Further there is security camera footage, and the FBI has video of numerous people entering and leaving the locked room, over the 18 months he resisted returning the documents.

This is why the DoJ requested he add a second controlled lock, even after he had falsely claimed he had returned them all. They knew he was lying, and the FBI search warrant proved it.

It's becoming amusing how much the MAGAs have to "alternate" the truth and the facts, in order to make their false equivalences.

Did Biden break the law? Without referencing Trump and diversionary whataboutism, and I know that is a huge ask, yes or no? And if you like, why?

Remember, inadvertent breaches of classified document protocols have landed lesser mortals behind bars.

Bricktop wrote:

Did Biden break the law? Without referencing Trump and diversionary whataboutism, and I know that is a huge ask, yes or no? And if you like, why?

Remember, inadvertent breaches of classified document protocols have landed lesser mortals behind bars.

I see nothing but diverionary whataboutism in this query.

casinterest wrote:

Bricktop wrote:

Did Biden break the law? Without referencing Trump and diversionary whataboutism, and I know that is a huge ask, yes or no? And if you like, why?

Remember, inadvertent breaches of classified document protocols have landed lesser mortals behind bars.

I see nothing but diverionary whataboutism in this query.

I see no answer to the query.

IPFreely wrote:

Eolesen wrote:

In the larger picture, none of these documents are actually important to anyone except a career archivist...

Interesting. How have you determined this?

I hear crickets!

IPFreely wrote:

IPFreely wrote:

Eolesen wrote:

In the larger picture, none of these documents are actually important to anyone except a career archivist...

Interesting. How have you determined this?

I hear crickets!

I refer you to the White House Counsel's Office.

Bricktop wrote:

Did Biden break the law? Without referencing Trump and diversionary whataboutism, and I know that is a huge ask, yes or no? And if you like, why?

Remember, inadvertent breaches of classified document protocols have landed lesser mortals behind bars.

This is false. Far and away, the punishments for classification breaches are administrative. The person's security clearances are revoked and/or the incident affects their employment. The reason is that there is no intent involved.

The only cases that result in criminal prosecution are those that involve intent. In fact the Title 18 statutes specifically require intent. This is why there are so few prosecutions, even though classified documents are misplaced far more often.

This is also why the comparison to Trump becomes relevant. All the MAGAs screaming about Biden and insisting on equivalence with Trump, willfully ignore that Trump did have intent, while there is zero evidence that Biden did.

Trump also had a cleanup team running around behind him, to stop him from tearing up documents or flushing them down the toilet. A sitting President cannot have his security clearance revoked, so there is no administrative remedy, unless the President voluntarily undertakes it.

That is the simple truth. Truth is not diversionary, unless you are a MAGA.

Bricktop wrote:

IPFreely wrote:

IPFreely wrote:

Interesting. How have you determined this?

I hear crickets!

I refer you to the White House Counsel's Office.

A true non-answer!

More "But Trump!" blather, sadly.

Sure. It was a good faith mistake. And that they hid this from the public for 68 days is clear proof that they know they are innocent and transparent. The real truth is that meantime they were trying to hush it up and work a back-room deal with the DOJ but it got out. Then all bets were off.

IPFreely wrote:

Bricktop wrote:

IPFreely wrote:

I hear crickets!

I refer you to the White House Counsel's Office.

A true non-answer!

I could not agree more.

Bricktop wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Bricktop wrote:

Did Biden break the law? Without referencing Trump and diversionary whataboutism, and I know that is a huge ask, yes or no? And if you like, why?

Remember, inadvertent breaches of classified document protocols have landed lesser mortals behind bars.

I see nothing but diverionary whataboutism in this query.

I see no answer to the query.

What is there to answer? Your Question is one for the DOJ. You are wandering off of a break the law in a very complciated situation invoving staffers, boxes and materials that the DOJ will have to investgate.

Avatar2go wrote:

Bricktop wrote:

Did Biden break the law? Without referencing Trump and diversionary whataboutism, and I know that is a huge ask, yes or no?

Blah blah blah Trump blah blah blah MAGAs blah blah blah Trump blah blah blah Trump blah blah blah Trump blah blah blah MAGA.

Far too big of an ask. TDS runs deep.

IPFreely wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

Bricktop wrote:

Did Biden break the law? Without referencing Trump and diversionary whataboutism, and I know that is a huge ask, yes or no?

Blah blah blah Trump blah blah blah MAGAs blah blah blah Trump blah blah blah Trump blah blah blah Trump blah blah blah MAGA.

Far too big of an ask. TDS runs deep.

Please post your detailed analysis of why Biden Broke the law.

TDS is only exists in the minds of people that fail to ask critical questions of their leadership.

Bricktop wrote:

More "But Trump!" blather, sadly.

Sure. It was a good faith mistake. And that they hid this from the public for 68 days is clear proof that they know they are innocent and transparent. The real truth is that meantime they were trying to hush it up and work a back-room deal with the DOJ but it got out. Then all bets were off.

More falsehoods. The WH shouldn't comment on an active DoJ investigation, which began the very next day. They got themselves into trouble when they did comment on it. You will always get yourself into trouble by commenting on an active and incomplete investigation.

It's true that the MAGAs will then yodel conspiracy, coverup etc. That's unavoidable. It's apparent to any thinking person that it can't be covered up if the DoJ is investigating it. So you just have to let them yodel.

Further the DoJ has a policy of not releasing incomplete investigative information immediately before an election. We saw why that is in 2016, when they broke that policy to announce an extension of the Hillary email investigation, which subsequently turned up nothing. Yet impacted the election, leading to 4 years of buffoonery, culminating in an assault on the Capitol. From which we have not yet recovered, as evidenced by the House Speaker election.

casinterest wrote:

IPFreely wrote:

Avatar2go wrote:

Blah blah blah Trump blah blah blah MAGAs blah blah blah Trump blah blah blah Trump blah blah blah Trump blah blah blah MAGA.

Far too big of an ask. TDS runs deep.

Please post your detailed analysis of why Biden Broke the law.

TDS is only exists in the minds of people that fail to ask critical questions of their leadership.

Nice try on changing the subject. I never wrote that Biden did or did not break the law — I don’t know yet. I do know that whether he did or did not has absolutely nothing to do with Trump or MAGA.

All Bricktop asked was for someone to post a yes or no answer about Biden without referencing Trump. And the first reply he got was an incoherent rambling about Trump and MAGA without any yes/no answer to the actual question.

IPFreely wrote:

Far too big of an ask. TDS runs deep.

Indeed it does. What will they do for an excuse post 2024?

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

IPFreely wrote:

casinterest wrote:

IPFreely wrote:

Far too big of an ask. TDS runs deep.

Please post your detailed analysis of why Biden Broke the law.

TDS is only exists in the minds of people that fail to ask critical questions of their leadership.

Nice try on changing the subject. I never wrote that Biden did or did not break the law — I don’t know yet. I do know that whether he did or did not has absolutely nothing to do with Trump or MAGA.

All Bricktop asked was for someone to post a yes or no answer about Biden without referencing Trump. And the first reply he got was an incoherent rambling about Trump and MAGA without any yes/no answer to the actual question.

Why ? Those that have been paying attention for the last 20 years know that crime means criminal intent. The DOJ is investigating Criminal Intent. So it is not a delfection to say to wait for the DOJ on it.

Nothing Biden or his team have done indicates criminal intent based on current reports.

Sp please again explain why you may beleive this to be a crime.
'