It was so wierd that Eurostar offered London to Amsterdam nonstop but not the other way around. Why? I know now they do.

What happened to the trains which ended in Amsterdam back then? Went empty to Brussels or back to London?

UAUA wrote:

It was so wierd that Eurostar offered London to Amsterdam nonstop but not the other way around. Why? I know now they do.

Headwinds.

UAUA wrote:

It was so wierd that Eurostar offered London to Amsterdam nonstop but not the other way around. Why? I know now they do.

What happened to the trains which ended in Amsterdam back then? Went empty to Brussels or back to London?

On Eurostar/other cross channel services, immigration and custom controls are conducted at the departure station by the destination's agency. Ie UK-Europe you clear French/schengen controls in the UK. Europe to UK you clear UK controls in the departing european station.
UK border force were unable to carry out immigration and customs checks in Amsterdam or Roterdam as they already did in France & Belgium until the treaty was updated in 2020. Obviously ex UK, French agents carried out those checks for France/schengen sonthe train could operate direct to Netherlands. The trains operated from Netherlands to Brussels-Midi and pax cleared the UK border there before continuing on.

Not just immigration/customs, Eurostar also does aviation-like security checks at the departure station. Amsterdam did not have the required facilities.

For similar reasons, there are no direct trains from Germany to London (Cologne-St.Pancras would be less than 4h and quite competitive with flying, if it wasn't for the additional hour spent in Brussels for security and customs; Frankfurt-St.Pancras could be done in under 5h).

WesternDC6B wrote:

UAUA wrote:

It was so wierd that Eurostar offered London to Amsterdam nonstop but not the other way around. Why? I know now they do.

Headwinds.

Needed a Brussels tech stop like everyday. Almost as bad as COs TATL 757s!

With the takeover of another rail company (forgot the name) will Eurostar offer Germany-UK nonstop?

Then why Brussels is happy with Amsterdam not doing any security checks even years ago? Back then UK was still in the European Union

And how did they solve the problem?

UAUA wrote:

And how did they solve the problem?

They now do security screening and customs checks in Amsterdam. Albeit in a wierd building on a platform (above ground i.e you walk down the end of a platform and around building works), which is annoying to get to / find.

I thought it was also to do with the lack of a high speed line from Amsterdam?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSL-Zuid

UAUA wrote:

With the takeover of another rail company (forgot the name) will Eurostar offer Germany-UK nonstop?

The merger of two SNCF subsidiaries Eurostar and Thalys is a paper exercise .

Eurostar became effectively insolvent during COVID and the UK government declined a bailout ( even through would have recovered the partial ownership previously sold on- This was a political decision and ideologically driven by the current government makeup)

There are no plans to change the operations over Brussels Midi and no UK - German through trains are planned anytime soon ( Well not by SNCF/SNCB) just a continuation of the connections over the Belgian capital.

DB have muted plans on a number of occasions using ICE trains however have yet to come to anything. The train sets need to meet the Channel Tunnel safety and evaluation standards - current sets don’t .

However as others have said the UK border requirements require an intermediate clearance BEFORE ENTERING THE TUNNEL.

UAUA wrote:

Then why Brussels is happy with Amsterdam not doing any security checks even years ago? Back then UK was still in the European Union

And how did they solve the problem?

Both are within Schengen free movement area - indeed their open border predates that EU treaty - with the Benelux arrangements .

Given that there are parts of Belgium territory enclosed by the Netherlands and a large area of Dutch territory to the west of Antwerp almost completely severed from the rest of the Netherlands much of the border is undefined.

Want to understand the confusion further look up Baarle- Nassau !

rutankrd wrote:

UAUA wrote:

Then why Brussels is happy with Amsterdam not doing any security checks even years ago? Back then UK was still in the European Union

And how did they solve the problem?

Both are within Schengen free movement area - indeed their open border predates that EU treaty - with the Benelux arrangements .

Given that there are parts of Belgium territory enclosed by the Netherlands and a large area of Dutch territory to the west of Antwerp almost completely severed from the rest of the Netherlands much of the border is undefined.

Want to understand the confusion further look up Baarle- Nassau !

what do you mean by "undefined"? It is very well-defined, just not in the field, the border is hardly noticeable, as with any Schengen border. Last time my passport was checked was probably somewhere in the 1980-ish, if ever

ReverseFlow wrote:

I thought it was also to do with the lack of a high speed line from Amsterdam?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSL-Zuid

that opened way back in 2009.

rutankrd wrote:

DB have muted plans on a number of occasions using ICE trains however have yet to come to anything. The train sets need to meet the Channel Tunnel safety and evaluation standards - current sets don’t .

However as others have said the UK border requirements require an intermediate clearance BEFORE ENTERING THE TUNNEL.

The newer ICE 3 (class 407 / 408) is basically the same as the latest Eurostar trainsets, just shortened to 200m. They would've met requirements despite some protests by Eurostar.

The main issue remains security and customs. Neither Cologne nor Frankfurt have room to accomodate the facilities. If you do the checks in Brussels, as the trains from Amsterdam did previously, it interrupts the journey and adds considerably to the travel time (at least 30 min).

Although, in my opinion, the security concern is overblown. No other long railway tunnel requires such checks, not even the other long sub-sea tunnel (Seikan tunnel, in Japan).

Dutchy wrote:

rutankrd wrote:

UAUA wrote:

Then why Brussels is happy with Amsterdam not doing any security checks even years ago? Back then UK was still in the European Union

And how did they solve the problem?

Both are within Schengen free movement area - indeed their open border predates that EU treaty - with the Benelux arrangements .

Given that there are parts of Belgium territory enclosed by the Netherlands and a large area of Dutch territory to the west of Antwerp almost completely severed from the rest of the Netherlands much of the border is undefined.

Want to understand the confusion further look up Baarle- Nassau !

what do you mean by "undefined"? It is very well-defined, just not in the field, the border is hardly noticeable, as with any Schengen border. Last time my passport was checked was probably somewhere in the 1980-ish, if ever

Undefined as in un noticeable! Pretty much as crossing an English county line . Not as in disputed .

mxaxai wrote:

rutankrd wrote:

DB have muted plans on a number of occasions using ICE trains however have yet to come to anything. The train sets need to meet the Channel Tunnel safety and evaluation standards - current sets don’t .

However as others have said the UK border requirements require an intermediate clearance BEFORE ENTERING THE TUNNEL.

The newer ICE 3 (class 407 / 408) is basically the same as the latest Eurostar trainsets, just shortened to 200m. They would've met requirements despite some protests by Eurostar.

The main issue remains security and customs. Neither Cologne nor Frankfurt have room to accomodate the facilities. If you do the checks in Brussels, as the trains from Amsterdam did previously, it interrupts the journey and adds considerably to the travel time (at least 30 min).

Although, in my opinion, the security concern is overblown. No other long railway tunnel requires such checks, not even the other long sub-sea tunnel (Seikan tunnel, in Japan).

I agree with you on the UK demands on border checkpoints being overblown still we currently have a xenophobic Brexit driven government and the UK is unlikely to join Schengen anytime in the next decade let alone rejoin the EU framework ( closer alignment will happen when the current administration is deposed) .

DB has sent an ICE train set to St Pancras pull by a diesel ! and they absolutely want to start a service at some point; consideration would be UK border agents boarding at Brussels through to Lille and potentially, and this is the sticking point none EU/ GB/EEA passport holders being segregated on the train.

As for the safety concerns within the tunnel, it’s the positioning of train doors in emergency in relation to the escape tunnels . It a major consideration as their have been several incidents with existing stock and a significant one with a freight shuttle carriage design.

My own profession is in fire safety systems and I have worked with Euro Tunnel on these matters .

Dutchy wrote:

rutankrd wrote:

UAUA wrote:

Then why Brussels is happy with Amsterdam not doing any security checks even years ago? Back then UK was still in the European Union

And how did they solve the problem?

Both are within Schengen free movement area - indeed their open border predates that EU treaty - with the Benelux arrangements .

Given that there are parts of Belgium territory enclosed by the Netherlands and a large area of Dutch territory to the west of Antwerp almost completely severed from the rest of the Netherlands much of the border is undefined.

Want to understand the confusion further look up Baarle- Nassau !

what do you mean by "undefined"? It is very well-defined, just not in the field, the border is hardly noticeable, as with any Schengen border. Last time my passport was checked was probably somewhere in the 1980-ish, if ever

So you’ve never left Europe or even been to the UK. Like a European version of the average American.

Kiwirob wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

rutankrd wrote:

Both are within Schengen free movement area - indeed their open border predates that EU treaty - with the Benelux arrangements .

Given that there are parts of Belgium territory enclosed by the Netherlands and a large area of Dutch territory to the west of Antwerp almost completely severed from the rest of the Netherlands much of the border is undefined.

Want to understand the confusion further look up Baarle- Nassau !

what do you mean by "undefined"? It is very well-defined, just not in the field, the border is hardly noticeable, as with any Schengen border. Last time my passport was checked was probably somewhere in the 1980-ish, if ever

So you’ve never left Europe or even been to the UK. Like a European version of the average American.

seriously? That's what you make of this. Think whatever you like.

Dutchy wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

what do you mean by "undefined"? It is very well-defined, just not in the field, the border is hardly noticeable, as with any Schengen border. Last time my passport was checked was probably somewhere in the 1980-ish, if ever

So you’ve never left Europe or even been to the UK. Like a European version of the average American.

seriously? That's what you make of this. Think whatever you like.

You did say the last time your passport was checked was 1980'ish, which if true means you haven't left Continental Europe since 1980'ish, unless you're lying for effect.

Kiwirob wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

So you’ve never left Europe or even been to the UK. Like a European version of the average American.

seriously? That's what you make of this. Think whatever you like.

You did say the last time your passport was checked was 1980'ish, which if true means you haven't left Continental Europe since 1980'ish, unless you're lying for effect.

Putting things deliberately out of context is also lying. It was clearly meant for the border crossing between the Netherlands and Belgium because that was the context in which we were discussing the matter. So, either you don't grasp that or you deliberately say this for the effect, so which of the two is it?

Dutchy wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

seriously? That's what you make of this. Think whatever you like.

You did say the last time your passport was checked was 1980'ish, which if true means you haven't left Continental Europe since 1980'ish, unless you're lying for effect.

Putting things deliberately out of context is also lying. It was clearly meant for the border crossing between the Netherlands and Belgium because that was the context in which we were discussing the matter. So, either you don't grasp that or you deliberately say this for the effect, so which of the two is it?

Really that was the context, then why didn’t you say that.

Kiwirob wrote:

Really that was the context, then why didn’t you say that.

Jesus H Tap-Dancing Christ, give it a rest already. The context was blindingly obvious.

So Eurostar did Amsterdam to Brussels? Otherwise they would have return with an empty train

UAUA wrote:

So Eurostar did Amsterdam to Brussels? Otherwise they would have return with an empty train

I believe so. Amsterdam - Brussels get out of Eurostar 1, through customs etc. get on Eurostar 2.