Where will this all end? Has anybody checked around GWB's and Jimmy Carter's abodes? Now classified documents have been found at Mike Pence's residence:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... iana-home/

I'm scared to look for classified documents in my house, in case I find some!

You know I’m starting to think maybe, this may be a stretch, but maybe the control of classified documents in the White House isn’t that great regardless of party affiliation.

I know, controversial take.

FGITD wrote:

You know I’m starting to think maybe, this may be a stretch, but maybe the control of classified documents in the White House isn’t that great regardless of party affiliation.

I know, controversial take.

Highly controversal. I really feel that out of the live P/VPs maybe only Jimmy Carter know how to handle classified docs.

FGITD wrote:

You know I’m starting to think maybe, this may be a stretch, but maybe the control of classified documents in the White House isn’t that great regardless of party affiliation.

I know, controversial take.

I said it in the other thread and it got deleted. I think this is an executive branch malaise that stretches back 20+ years. I'm certain you'll find plenty of classified documents in Condi's desk, Bush's, Clinton's.

It's not a left or right issue, it's a governance issue.

casinterest wrote:

FGITD wrote:

You know I’m starting to think maybe, this may be a stretch, but maybe the control of classified documents in the White House isn’t that great regardless of party affiliation.

I know, controversial take.

Highly controversal. I really feel that out of the live P/VPs maybe only Jimmy Carter know how to handle classified docs.

Carter is definitely hiding the truth of the giant swimming rabbit incident

I think this reinforces what many observers & participants in the public sector have said, that there are minor classification infractions all over the place, if anyone cares to look.

I suspect that like Biden, Pence had copies and not the originals, so they weren't missed by the archives, as in the case of Trump.

Also Pence stated that while VP, he typically disposed of classified materials in a "burn bag". So that helps to explain how they could be misplaced without notice. If you expected they were burned, you wouldn't be looking for them, or miss them.

That also implies there is no document tracking, it's just the responsibility of the recipient to dispose of them properly. Which they likely do 99.99% of the time, but a few documents can still slip through the cracks.

Newark727 wrote:

Carter is definitely hiding the truth of the giant swimming rabbit incident

Lol!! Carter has never recovered from the "Pepsi Syndrome" incident at Three Mile Island, as documented by Saturday Night Live.

(That's one of my favorite SNL skits. Seems like a lifetime ago that we had good-natured teasing of a President for being smart. The "Ask President Carter" segments were a hoot).

What few have spoken about and is obvious to those who have worked with classified material is intent. An infraction is an infraction. An employee inadvertently taking a classified page with them to another office is an infraction, but will likely not be prosecuted because there was no criminal intent. An employee knowingly taking a classified page with them from a program and storing it elsewhere for whatever reason (token, to sell, to blackmail, etc.) is an infraction but can also be prosecuted because there was criminal intent.

That makes all the difference between Trump's case and that of Biden and Pence, and it's why Joe Average won't be able to claim either as a precedent.

NARA was unaware of Biden and Pence having classified document, probably because they have the originals or these were documents that had not been disclosed. NARA WAS aware of missing items from Trump's presidency and that he had them in his possession and after repeated attempts to get them back, NARA had no choice but to deploy the big guns.

This also speaks volumes to how our classified items are not as tightly kept as we think. If oversights like these are possible at the Executive branch, how are lower agencies faring?

einsteinboricua wrote:

What few have spoken about and is obvious to those who have worked with classified material is intent. An infraction is an infraction. An employee inadvertently taking a classified page with them to another office is an infraction, but will likely not be prosecuted because there was no criminal intent. An employee knowingly taking a classified page with them from a program and storing it elsewhere for whatever reason (token, to sell, to blackmail, etc.) is an infraction but can also be prosecuted because there was criminal intent.

That makes all the difference between Trump's case and that of Biden and Pence, and it's why Joe Average won't be able to claim either as a precedent.

NARA was unaware of Biden and Pence having classified document, probably because they have the originals or these were documents that had not been disclosed. NARA WAS aware of missing items from Trump's presidency and that he had them in his possession and after repeated attempts to get them back, NARA had no choice but to deploy the big guns.

This also speaks volumes to how our classified items are not as tightly kept as we think. If oversights like these are possible at the Executive branch, how are lower agencies faring?

Excellent summary, thanks!

Time to print copies on paper that will blank after a few weeks or something.

Avatar2go wrote:

Newark727 wrote:

Carter is definitely hiding the truth of the giant swimming rabbit incident

Lol!! Carter has never recovered from the "Pepsi Syndrome" incident at Three Mile Island, as documented by Saturday Night Live.

(That's one of my favorite SNL skits. Seems like a lifetime ago that we had good-natured teasing of a President for being smart. The "Ask President Carter" segments were a hoot).

Can you DM me perhaps YT link.

Aesma wrote:

Time to print copies on paper that will blank after a few weeks or something.

Do you remember the PBS show "3-2-1 Contact!" that had the show-within-a-show "The Bloodhound Gang"? Mr. Bloodhound (who was never at his detective agency and only had teens working for him for some reason) had an episode where he wrote a note with "disappearing" ink that could only be read by heat because of lemon juice or something? That would so work!

I've had a TS and other "special" clearances. You took anything out of a SCIF and it wasn't secured properly you'd be hurting. Unless you were a politician (of whatever stripe) I guess.

It appears whatever Pence did pales in comparison to Biden or Trump. Either way, two wrongs don't make a right. But I do note the OP hasn't posted the latest transgressions on the other side of aisle.

Hypocrisy, much?

I will also add that based on what I saw a lot of documents were over classified.

cairns wrote:

But I do note the OP hasn't posted the latest transgressions on the other side of aisle.

Hypocrisy, much?

Lol! There are 15 posts in the Pence thread, because no one here is trying to persecute him, or calling for his head. His transgression is not much different than Biden's.

Meanwhile in the Biden thread, there are 280 posts and huge battles because of all the accusations made against him.

There could be no greater evidence, both for the behavior of the two opposing groups, or their awareness of self and the rules of logic.

cairns wrote:

It appears whatever Pence did pales in comparison to Biden or Trump. Either way, two wrongs don't make a right. But I do note the OP hasn't posted the latest transgressions on the other side of aisle.

Hypocrisy, much?

Both Biden and Pence found classified documents and returned them without the Archives demanding their return. No warrants being legally executed, no judges being involved, none of that. Just two former VPs finding documents and returning them voluntarily. How is what Biden did worse than what Pence did?

In the FBI consensual search of Pence's home, one additional classified document and a small number of documents of interest, were recovered.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pences-hom ... rched-fbi/