In further evidence this guy is totally content to keep sowing division not only in the country, but in the GOP, Trump is now claiming Gov. DeSantis cannot run without being 'disloyal' and apparently has his campaign staff starting an oppo operation to paint him as part of 'the swamp'.

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald- ... ent-2023-1

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald- ... endations=

Not that it will happen, but it's really high time for the GOP to tell this malcontent where to go.

Aaron747 wrote:

Not that it will happen, but it's really high time for the GOP to tell this malcontent where to go.

On the one hand yes, but on the other hand DeSantis is goose-stepping culture warrior trash, so if Trump wants to try and give him a black eye on his way out, I say be my guest.

The media is so blatantly hyping DeSantis that it's almost not funny.

While part of me wants to see him spectacularly flaming out once the primaries actually start, a la Rudy Giuliani circa 2008 (after yearrrrrs of "America's Mayor" media hype)...

...I'm not sure Trump's the one to do it to him. Why? Because despite DeSantis being a demonstrably terrible debater, and easily/visibly flustered at the slightest opposition; he's actually LIKED by many.

It's easy for Trump to call Rubio tiny, or trash Cruz's wife/father to his face--- because no one actually likes Marco Rubio nor especially Ted Cruz. Seeing them get a comeuppance puts a smile on faces from both the Left and the Right.

But DeSantis has almost fanatic supporters, and Trump just outright trashing him (or especially attacking his family) likely won't connect in the same way.

I'm honestly happy to see them go at each other. DeSantis is a Trump protege, his political positions were enabled by Trump, and he uses the media in the same way. So let the pupil attack the tutor, or vice versa.

Let them fight,

I think this is what the GOP needs in order to see whether half a golden calf is as good as the other half of the golden calf. Or is it the wonka golden rotten egg?


Desantis can't quite match Trump's charisma and talent for knocking on others, and Desantis actually does rely on quite a bit of the Trump Loyalty Base in Florida.

Doubt Trump will make even close to the first debate. He knows he is unpopular even with the middle so he is enjoying his last few months of living in liberals heads.

Now if the Dems can quickly talk Joe into not running, and find another good candidate, they will have a good chance.

casinterest wrote:

Let them fight,

I think this is what the GOP needs in order to see whether half a golden calf is as good as the other half of the golden calf. Or is it the wonka golden rotten egg?


Desantis can't quite match Trump's charisma and talent for knocking on others, and Desantis actually does rely on quite a bit of the Trump Loyalty Base in Florida.

DeSantis is liked by independents though, especially in FL. Independents who once supported Trump are generally done with him.

Aaron747 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Let them fight,

I think this is what the GOP needs in order to see whether half a golden calf is as good as the other half of the golden calf. Or is it the wonka golden rotten egg?


Desantis can't quite match Trump's charisma and talent for knocking on others, and Desantis actually does rely on quite a bit of the Trump Loyalty Base in Florida.

DeSantis is liked by independents though, especially in FL. Independents who once supported Trump are generally done with him.

THe GOP has an problem though,

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3 ... oll-finds/

Former President Trump holds at 17-point lead over Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) in a hypothetical GOP primary match-up, according to a new poll.

A Morning Consult poll released Wednesday showed Trump with 48 percent support among potential Republican primary voters, followed by DeSantis with 31 percent. Trump’s front-runner position differs from some polls since the November midterm elections, which have shown DeSantis closing the gap with Trump or taking a lead in some cases.

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/ ... -rcna67694

Forty-five percent of registered voters preferred DeSantis, versus 38% of registered voters who preferred Biden in a hypothetical matchup between the two.

In a hypothetical contest between Biden and Trump, the two were even, each gaining 40% of registered voters' preference.

Just among Republican voters and independents who lean Republican, DeSantis had a slightly higher favorability rating. Seventy-one percent of those voters said they have a favorable view of DeSantis, while 70% said they had a favorable view of Trump.

I just don't see hoiw Desantis can win the GOP, when Trump, through all of his faults, still has a commanding lead.

Desantis does better with Independents, but Should the GOP choose Desants, would Trump run as a 3rd party, or just sabotage the vote? That is a danger zone for the GOP.

johns624 wrote:

Now if the Dems can quickly talk Joe into not running, and find another good candidate, they will have a good chance.

It looks like you are going to have either Biden or Pete Buttigieg.

NIKV69 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Now if the Dems can quickly talk Joe into not running, and find another good candidate, they will have a good chance.

It looks like you are going to have either Biden or Pete Buttigieg.

Biden will not have any support from independents and anemic support from Dems. He will be 81, that's ridiculous. Trump will be 77. If I were DeSantis I would just repeat 'I'm 45 and can control my body functions!' as the answer to every question.

Aaron747 wrote:

Biden will not have any support from independents and anemic support from Dems. He will be 81, that's ridiculous. Trump will be 77. If I were DeSantis I would just repeat 'I'm 45 and can control my body functions!' as the answer to every question.

I'd say the senile thing to do would be letting in the Viktor Orban by the beach just because he's got a full head of hair.

Newark727 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Biden will not have any support from independents and anemic support from Dems. He will be 81, that's ridiculous. Trump will be 77. If I were DeSantis I would just repeat 'I'm 45 and can control my body functions!' as the answer to every question.

I'd say the senile thing to do would be letting in the Viktor Orban by the beach just because he's got a full head of hair.

On a policy basis absolutely, but anyone popular in the GOP right now is a known commodity of populist guff. Culture war this, and culture war that. This is the Dems' election to lose - they need to reconnect with voters who are economically sensitive, that's how to grab independents.

Don thinks he is Tony Soprano.

Aaron747 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Let them fight,

I think this is what the GOP needs in order to see whether half a golden calf is as good as the other half of the golden calf. Or is it the wonka golden rotten egg?


Desantis can't quite match Trump's charisma and talent for knocking on others, and Desantis actually does rely on quite a bit of the Trump Loyalty Base in Florida.

DeSantis is liked by independents though, especially in FL. Independents who once supported Trump are generally done with him.

It's sooooo early that in a year we could be sitting here flabbergasted that the media ever considered Ron DeSantis a viable frontrunner against Trump.

Think about the Great White Hope they had in 2015 with Jeb!, don't worry, the polls will come out, Jeb! will beat him. Nobody worry, he's just not electable and nobody likes him.
Okay, Lyin' Ted has got this. Damn, maybe not. How about Marco... oh... Little Marco, he's out too.

So many challengers to Trump have previously come up and failed. I'd wait to see how he tackles DeSantis, I bet it's unexpected and effective. He's good at that part of politics.

Not to say Trump will be the nominee, I have no idea about that, it's just too early. But, it's important not to get too pickled in the idea that Ron DeSantis is going to save them or even be a serious factor in a primary. We just don't have enough to go on - the polls don't look good for DeSantis when just about anyone polled has at least heard of him, especially post-2022 midterm.

I did hear something about Republicans potentially launching their exploratory committees together as a way to show solidarity against Trump. If they do that... good luck losers. Trump will just ridicule them and he'll have a lot of play with that.

I think the fact that Ronna McDaniel was re-elected as the RNC chair, means that not much has changed in the party base. I think they will go for Trump, until he says or does something that makes him unelectable. And she will be loyal to him.

Where that line is, I don't really know. Borrowing a phrase from "Friends", the line is a dot to Trump. So far in the rearview mirror, that it's no longer visible. But then again, I'm not a member of his base.

Probably the best indicator will be the fundraising. Trump has always been a Republican star in that regard. So if he can sustain that, he has a shot at the nomination. If he can't, then that will be it for him, except possibly as a broker at the convention.

Disclaimer: I’m not from the US.

Why does it seem that a country with such a mature democracy struggles to find quality presidential candidates?

For what it’s worth, my country has the most useless politicians, but that’s another story.

T54A wrote:

Disclaimer: I’m not from the US.

Why does it seem that a country with such a mature democracy struggles to find quality presidential candidates?

For what it’s worth, my country has the most useless politicians, but that’s another story.

Hegemonic brain drain?

Reagan reluctantly gave it over to Bush, he hated him but it was his time and it came after a solid 15 years of getting just ritually humiliated by Nixon.
Bush lost to Clinton, but he had two kids, and the one he didn’t want to run won in 2000. Then you end up with Obama in 2008, they run Clinton because she’s the one who’s done her time.
Surprise, come 2020, you have the continuation of a kinder, gentler politics with happy vibes of Obama by nominating Biden, or a bunch of undercard candidates, Warren, and Sanders.

The Republicans went through a humiliating spectacle trying to nominate Romney in 2012. The bench was weird but they kept forcing the weirdos on the public to try and beat Romney. To me that’s the hinge point - if they had just eaten their vegetables and not given millions worth of oppo research to the Dems with that horrifying primary, he could have won.
Now he’s toxic, all those people from 2012 and 2016 are toxic or dead (sorry Herman Cain), and you’re left with Trump. The velociraptor that escaped the fences and is now actively hunting the villagers in Florida.

The bench has just been obliterated by politically dynastic shifts. The Bushes came and went. The Clintons came and went.
It wasn’t designed to work like this. Neither party has focused on building a legislative or political bench - instead they’ve been fine with a gerontocracy with the Democrats, and insane chaos eating their young on the Republican side.

It’s messy.

T54A wrote:

Disclaimer: I’m not from the US.

Why does it seem that a country with such a mature democracy struggles to find quality presidential candidates?

For what it’s worth, my country has the most useless politicians, but that’s another story.

Excellent question - probably because only someone with a screw loose could actually want the gig.

And this is a global forum - your views are just as valid on the topic as any American's.

Desantis may control his body but does he control his brain ? He seems to believe he's the second coming of Christ...

I agree with posters above--and to a degree it seems DeSantis also seems to get this--that making predictions now risks a candidate running out of steam way too early. Maybe Trump will prove us wrong here, because he has cult-like support. A Trump run would be the Democrats wet dream, because there's just endless attack ads that come straight from the Don's own mouth. For my two cents, Trump is attempting to reframe himself as a quieter, less unhinged Trump. I don't buy it, and it's going to be comical to watch when that inevitably unravels.

Aesma wrote:

Desantis may control his body but does he control his brain ? He seems to believe he's the second coming of Christ...

Ought to be fun watching him and Rafael Edward Cruz duke it out over that one. Unrelated, but Senator Cruz is probably one of the most deluded individuals in Congress -- I don't know why he's running. He has minimal actual legislative record to stand on, and he is about as charming as a landmine (unlike Trump, who has a clownishness to his buffooneries). Added to that, his mini-me, Senator Josh Hawley is--ahem--running up close behind him in the Unlikable Asshole Sweepstakes.

For my two cents, the one to keep an eye on in Nikki Haley. She's ruthless, not easily flustered (unlike the Don or Ron) and has a decent record to run on as Governor of South Carolina and UN Ambassador.

bennett123 wrote:

Don thinks he is Tony Soprano.

Would that really surprise you if it's true? He was groomed by the mob's lawyers, after all.

luckyone wrote:

A Trump run would be the Democrats wet dream, because there's just endless attack ads that come straight from the Don's own mouth.

I don't know if Trump has written off DeSantis yet. A Trump/ DeSantis ticket would be more formidable vs. Democrats.

Remember that VP Harris and Biden clashed during the Democrat primaries. Perhaps we're seeing something similar between Trump and DeSantis. The whole "loyalty" thing that Trump always talks about could be smoke and mirrors.

phatfarmlines wrote:

luckyone wrote:

A Trump run would be the Democrats wet dream, because there's just endless attack ads that come straight from the Don's own mouth.

I don't know if Trump has written off DeSantis yet. A Trump/ DeSantis ticket would be more formidable vs. Democrats.

Remember that VP Harris and Biden clashed during the Democrat primaries. Perhaps we're seeing something similar between Trump and DeSantis. The whole "loyalty" thing that Trump always talks about could be smoke and mirrors.

I don't see DeSantis playing ball with being VP. Harris always was a long shot, and she knew it. Also, much like Mike Pence and other past VPs, she was in theory an addition to bolster the Democratic ticket. A Trump-DeSantis ticket (or a Trump-Greene ticket if Bannon's comments about her desire to be VP are to be believed) wouldn't be of any value as they're too much alike. DeSantis is rowing in a different boat, and he also knows it. I don't see him being satisfied with the role of impotent VP when he would have an additional two years to run the show in Florida, and then two years to the lay the groundwork for his own run in 2028.

phatfarmlines wrote:

luckyone wrote:

A Trump run would be the Democrats wet dream, because there's just endless attack ads that come straight from the Don's own mouth.

I don't know if Trump has written off DeSantis yet. A Trump/ DeSantis ticket would be more formidable vs. Democrats.

Remember that VP Harris and Biden clashed during the Democrat primaries. Perhaps we're seeing something similar between Trump and DeSantis. The whole "loyalty" thing that Trump always talks about could be smoke and mirrors.

Totally different scenarios. Harris is VP only as payback to Clayburn for saving Biden in the primary. IMO she can't stand Biden but these deals are always made. The GOP has to move on from Trump. He isn't viable anymore. Desantis is an unknown but I don't think he is interested in VP.

Aaron747 wrote:

Trump is now claiming Gov. DeSantis cannot run without being 'disloyal' …

Of course he is. Trump defines everything in relation to himself. And there is a shred of truth in his claim. He did after all endorse DeSantis in his first run and may have swung some votes his way.

The real question is, will it matter?

Polls this early are meaningless. DeSantis might not even be in the running a year and a half from now when the bulk of voters start paying attention.

Personally I think DeSantis may have outsmarted himself with his strategy of trying to out-MAGA Trump. That arguably made some sense when the MAGA brand was still hot, but that bloom has been fading. Witness the high-profile MAGA candidates who flamed out during the recent mid-term election cycle. Witness the utter lack of interest the Republican power base had in Harmeet Dhillon or the Pillow Guy for party chair.

If Republicans decide to nominate a MAGA candidate why not go with the original rather than a mini-me?

NIKV69 wrote:

phatfarmlines wrote:

luckyone wrote:

A Trump run would be the Democrats wet dream, because there's just endless attack ads that come straight from the Don's own mouth.

I don't know if Trump has written off DeSantis yet. A Trump/ DeSantis ticket would be more formidable vs. Democrats.

Remember that VP Harris and Biden clashed during the Democrat primaries. Perhaps we're seeing something similar between Trump and DeSantis. The whole "loyalty" thing that Trump always talks about could be smoke and mirrors.

Totally different scenarios. Harris is VP only as payback to Clayburn for saving Biden in the primary. IMO she can't stand Biden but these deals are always made. The GOP has to move on from Trump. He isn't viable anymore. Desantis is an unknown but I don't think he is interested in VP.

I disagree that DeSantis is "unknown". Many MAGAs across the country, both voters and elected officials, cheer on his hateful rhetoric and war against woke. Ultimately, that's all he's got. Cancelling minorities and non-heterosexual Americans. Making sure we do not learn or talk about "those people" plays to the MAGA base, but not much outside the echo chamber.

seb146 wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

phatfarmlines wrote:

I don't know if Trump has written off DeSantis yet. A Trump/ DeSantis ticket would be more formidable vs. Democrats.

Remember that VP Harris and Biden clashed during the Democrat primaries. Perhaps we're seeing something similar between Trump and DeSantis. The whole "loyalty" thing that Trump always talks about could be smoke and mirrors.

Totally different scenarios. Harris is VP only as payback to Clayburn for saving Biden in the primary. IMO she can't stand Biden but these deals are always made. The GOP has to move on from Trump. He isn't viable anymore. Desantis is an unknown but I don't think he is interested in VP.

I disagree that DeSantis is "unknown". Many MAGAs across the country, both voters and elected officials, cheer on his hateful rhetoric and war against woke. Ultimately, that's all he's got. Cancelling minorities and non-heterosexual Americans. Making sure we do not learn or talk about "those people" plays to the MAGA base, but not much outside the echo chamber.

I'm convinced that DeSantis has had people running operations on social media for a couple years now. I've lost track of how many nameless, faceless people would show up in Facebook comments section only to say "Florida is great. They have a great governor!" I strongly suspect that a lot of this is bots meant to sound as mindless as possible to positively associated DeSantis' name to the bozos who take those discussions seriously.

luckyone wrote:

seb146 wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

Totally different scenarios. Harris is VP only as payback to Clayburn for saving Biden in the primary. IMO she can't stand Biden but these deals are always made. The GOP has to move on from Trump. He isn't viable anymore. Desantis is an unknown but I don't think he is interested in VP.

I disagree that DeSantis is "unknown". Many MAGAs across the country, both voters and elected officials, cheer on his hateful rhetoric and war against woke. Ultimately, that's all he's got. Cancelling minorities and non-heterosexual Americans. Making sure we do not learn or talk about "those people" plays to the MAGA base, but not much outside the echo chamber.

I'm convinced that DeSantis has had people running operations on social media for a couple years now. I've lost track of how many nameless, faceless people would show up in Facebook comments section only to say "Florida is great. They have a great governor!" I strongly suspect that a lot of this is bots meant to sound as mindless as possible to positively associated DeSantis' name to the bozos who take those discussions seriously.

I doubt that. DeSantis hs high approval ratings and the Florida economy has been doing great during covid. The Trump tax changes accelerated the importance of state income tax for high income earners. There is a massive transfer of wealth into Florida and Texas happening. Look at the $10m+ housing in both states.

Florida is not perfect. It is a nightmare of unregulated tort lawsuits to my limited understanding. But it is highly diverse, the weather is good, and a ton of money is flowing in. Same for Texas.

Meanwhile, compare to Illinois. Get back to me on that comparison.

bennett123 wrote:

Don thinks he is Tony Soprano.

Thinks he is? Don is Tony Soprano...

NIKV69 wrote:

Doubt Trump will make even close to the first debate. He knows he is unpopular even with the middle so he is enjoying his last few months of living in liberals heads.

You really need a new crystal ball. I clearly remember you saying Trump wasn't going to run again even as he was leading up to his "big announcement" to say he was indeed going to seek another term. If you think he's going to quietly fade away before the next election cycle, you haven't been paying any attention to this deranged attention whore. The only ways we are rid of him is either he's convicted of one of his many crimes or he dies. I'd really prefer the former because I think it would be comedy theater on the highest level, but the latter is far more likely.

ER757 wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

Doubt Trump will make even close to the first debate. He knows he is unpopular even with the middle so he is enjoying his last few months of living in liberals heads.

You really need a new crystal ball. I clearly remember you saying Trump wasn't going to run again even as he was leading up to his "big announcement" to say he was indeed going to seek another term. If you think he's going to quietly fade away before the next election cycle, you haven't been paying any attention to this deranged attention whore. The only ways we are rid of him is either he's convicted of one of his many crimes or he dies. I'd really prefer the former because I think it would be comedy theater on the highest level, but the latter is far more likely.

You left out the part where Republicans come to their senses and stop choosing a man to lead them that represents, frauds, lies, adultry,racism and cruelty.

Ah never mind He will have to be convicted or die.

seb146 wrote:

I disagree that DeSantis is "unknown". Many MAGAs across the country, both voters and elected officials, cheer on his hateful rhetoric and war against woke. Ultimately, that's all he's got. Cancelling minorities and non-heterosexual Americans. Making sure we do not learn or talk about "those people" plays to the MAGA base, but not much outside the echo chamber.

DeSantis would be better off if he just stuck to
1. Record that he kept Florida open longer than governors of blue states, and deaths weren't higher because of it.
2. Against mandates (mask/vaccine)
And the typical points for his base
3. Against open borders
4. Tough on crime, pro police
5. Cut excessive spending

But all this anti-woke cultural war (banning/authoritarian) is hyper focused to please just his base. I don't see that appealing to moderates across the country and Democrats not pleased with Biden.

But, I could still see him beating Biden, but not sure if he can beat Trump for the nomination.

NIKV69 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Now if the Dems can quickly talk Joe into not running, and find another good candidate, they will have a good chance.

It looks like you are going to have either Biden or Pete Buttigieg.

Buttigieg won't get the Black vote. Democrats really only have Biden and as a fallback, Gavin Newsome or Kamala Harris.

There are some US Senators on the Democratic side that aren't up for re-election who might have free time to run a campaign, but they won't challenge Biden or Harris, out of respect. Plus, their voting records are closely tied to Biden, so what's the difference they offer anyways, other than younger age and maybe a cuter family.

All in, the Democrats don't have any good choices.

My hope is a long shot one that Larry Hogan switches to Democrat Party and then runs. He'd appeal to Black voters (as he did in Maryland), while being moderate, coming from being a Republican and won't have a voting record or record that is just the same.

LCDFlight wrote:

luckyone wrote:

seb146 wrote:

I disagree that DeSantis is "unknown". Many MAGAs across the country, both voters and elected officials, cheer on his hateful rhetoric and war against woke. Ultimately, that's all he's got. Cancelling minorities and non-heterosexual Americans. Making sure we do not learn or talk about "those people" plays to the MAGA base, but not much outside the echo chamber.

I'm convinced that DeSantis has had people running operations on social media for a couple years now. I've lost track of how many nameless, faceless people would show up in Facebook comments section only to say "Florida is great. They have a great governor!" I strongly suspect that a lot of this is bots meant to sound as mindless as possible to positively associated DeSantis' name to the bozos who take those discussions seriously.

I doubt that. DeSantis hs high approval ratings and the Florida economy has been doing great during covid. The Trump tax changes accelerated the importance of state income tax for high income earners. There is a massive transfer of wealth into Florida and Texas happening. Look at the $10m+ housing in both states.

Florida is not perfect. It is a nightmare of unregulated tort lawsuits to my limited understanding. But it is highly diverse, the weather is good, and a ton of money is flowing in. Same for Texas.

Meanwhile, compare to Illinois. Get back to me on that comparison.

I wouldn’t (and didn’t) argue any of that (beyond the fact that I detest Florida’s climate), except that very little of that has anything to do with either of the current governors of Florida or Texas, or even their predecessors. Their tax structure has been that way for decades and it’s a sheer stroke of dumb luck for them that they benefitted from the tax bill in such a way, coupled with accelerated retirements AND the retirements of the baby boomers in general. What I said was DeSantis has possibly (and IMHO likely) been running an operation of social media bots.

Florida “did well” in the pandemic because they had no choice but to remain open or they would be the ones going bankrupt—though they actually did worse in 2020 in terms of GDP contraction than states such as Washington State with its considerable restrictions and also doesn’t have income tax. A great deal of their economy was dependent on tourism and the accompanying tax revenue (Florida may not tax its residents’ income, but it resoundingly taxes its visitors, make of that what one will). It was their choice to make, but they made it and it cost them a higher death rate in younger populations, but that’s a quarrel for a different thread. My point is, the lily is guilded.

LCDFlight wrote:

luckyone wrote:

seb146 wrote:

I disagree that DeSantis is "unknown". Many MAGAs across the country, both voters and elected officials, cheer on his hateful rhetoric and war against woke. Ultimately, that's all he's got. Cancelling minorities and non-heterosexual Americans. Making sure we do not learn or talk about "those people" plays to the MAGA base, but not much outside the echo chamber.

I'm convinced that DeSantis has had people running operations on social media for a couple years now. I've lost track of how many nameless, faceless people would show up in Facebook comments section only to say "Florida is great. They have a great governor!" I strongly suspect that a lot of this is bots meant to sound as mindless as possible to positively associated DeSantis' name to the bozos who take those discussions seriously.

I doubt that. DeSantis hs high approval ratings and the Florida economy has been doing great during covid. The Trump tax changes accelerated the importance of state income tax for high income earners. There is a massive transfer of wealth into Florida and Texas happening. Look at the $10m+ housing in both states.

Florida is not perfect. It is a nightmare of unregulated tort lawsuits to my limited understanding. But it is highly diverse, the weather is good, and a ton of money is flowing in. Same for Texas.

Meanwhile, compare to Illinois. Get back to me on that comparison.

I share similar observations as luckyone on social media presence. The Youtube responses on any and all DeSantis topics are things like "I am lucky to live in Florida!" and "We have the best governor!" Yet I would think Governor Abbott, who is pretty much joined to the hip with DeSantis on policy, would also have similar responses about Texas, but you don't see those.

johns624 wrote:

Now if the Dems can quickly talk Joe into not running, and find another good candidate, they will have a good chance.

Why? Other than inflation which is happening across every countries that caused transient rating drop, whatr's wrong with Biden that make it worthwhile for Dem give up incumbency advantage to try someone else and spend all the energies to do a year of primary election? Age wise Republican aren't exactly proposing any better alternative, and even if Republican pull out someone aged around 50, I don't think most people in the US would use this as a determining factor when casting vote?

How does AOC sound from the democratic side, she is young, has fire and the belly and strongly opinionated. Where does she appeal to independents and youngsters and how much? Could she be a potential VP material in current dynamics and if yes who would be her potential crew-mate for President be ???

pune wrote:

How does AOC sound from the democratic side, she is young, has fire and the belly and strongly opinionated. Where does she appeal to independents and youngsters and how much? Could she be a potential VP material in current dynamics and if yes who would be her potential crew-mate for President be ???

For starters she will just barely be old enough to qualify by Election Day (she turns just 35 a few weeks before). As for the rest of your question,
No, she isn’t that favorably viewed by independents. A lot of them view her as part of the loud mouth problem.

That age limit is ridiculous.

Yes she's a loud mouth a bit like Trump, except she makes coherent sentences and talks about facts, science, stuff like that. Bothers a lot of people, of course. Why doesn't she "know her place" ?

Aesma wrote:

That age limit is ridiculous.

Yes she's a loud mouth a bit like Trump, except she makes coherent sentences and talks about facts, science, stuff like that. Bothers a lot of people, of course. Why doesn't she "know her place" ?

I don't have a problem with the age limit to have your button on nuclear weapons. Most people in their mid 30s can still be quite clueless. As for "know her place," that isn't why she bothers me. She isn't always coherent. She doesn't have a lot of perspective outside of her "activist" bubble, though I appreciate her position on LGBT+ issues. And frankly, I'm skeptical of her narrative. I'm of the opinion that somebody who graduated from Boston University can only find a job tending bar to help her family is horse pucky. She would've been able to land any job she wanted, and she would've been able to help her family save their house from foreclosure, or whatever the story was.

luckyone wrote:

Aesma wrote:

That age limit is ridiculous.

Yes she's a loud mouth a bit like Trump, except she makes coherent sentences and talks about facts, science, stuff like that. Bothers a lot of people, of course. Why doesn't she "know her place" ?

I don't have a problem with the age limit to have your button on nuclear weapons. Most people in their mid 30s can still be quite clueless. As for "know her place," that isn't why she bothers me. She isn't always coherent. She doesn't have a lot of perspective outside of her "activist" bubble, though I appreciate her position on LGBT+ issues. And frankly, I'm skeptical of her narrative. I'm of the opinion that somebody who graduated from Boston University can only find a job tending bar to help her family is horse pucky. She would've been able to land any job she wanted, and she would've been able to help her family save their house from foreclosure, or whatever the story was.

You can be cynical but then that should apply to both, not one. I didn't get a part of my question answered. If she were to run as a VP, whom who you think/choose as President on a democratic ticket. Whom does she gel best with ???

pune wrote:

luckyone wrote:

Aesma wrote:

That age limit is ridiculous.

Yes she's a loud mouth a bit like Trump, except she makes coherent sentences and talks about facts, science, stuff like that. Bothers a lot of people, of course. Why doesn't she "know her place" ?

I don't have a problem with the age limit to have your button on nuclear weapons. Most people in their mid 30s can still be quite clueless. As for "know her place," that isn't why she bothers me. She isn't always coherent. She doesn't have a lot of perspective outside of her "activist" bubble, though I appreciate her position on LGBT+ issues. And frankly, I'm skeptical of her narrative. I'm of the opinion that somebody who graduated from Boston University can only find a job tending bar to help her family is horse pucky. She would've been able to land any job she wanted, and she would've been able to help her family save their house from foreclosure, or whatever the story was.

You can be cynical but then that should apply to both, not one. I didn't get a part of my question answered. If she were to run as a VP, whom who you think/choose as President on a democratic ticket. Whom does she gel best with ???

Well, to be fair that wasn't part of your original question. I don't think she appeals to independents. As for whom she might gel with which is a new question, possibly Buttigieg, beyond that in the current crop, I don't see a more centrist, "Establishment" Democrat in the field at the moment. If that changes, we shall see.

phluser wrote:

DeSantis would be better off if he just stuck to
1. Record that he kept Florida open longer than governors of blue states, and deaths weren't higher because of it.

I will not buy that those loose policies resulted in lower deaths. He lost credibility when he got that data scientist arrested.

phatfarmlines wrote:

phluser wrote:

DeSantis would be better off if he just stuck to
1. Record that he kept Florida open longer than governors of blue states, and deaths weren't higher because of it.

I will not buy that those loose policies resulted in lower deaths. He lost credibility when he got that data scientist arrested.

Good thing you didn't buy, because it's not true. particularly in the younger population.

https://news.bloombergtax.com/tax-insig ... justin-fox

phatfarmlines wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

luckyone wrote:

I'm convinced that DeSantis has had people running operations on social media for a couple years now. I've lost track of how many nameless, faceless people would show up in Facebook comments section only to say "Florida is great. They have a great governor!" I strongly suspect that a lot of this is bots meant to sound as mindless as possible to positively associated DeSantis' name to the bozos who take those discussions seriously.

I doubt that. DeSantis hs high approval ratings and the Florida economy has been doing great during covid. The Trump tax changes accelerated the importance of state income tax for high income earners. There is a massive transfer of wealth into Florida and Texas happening. Look at the $10m+ housing in both states.

Florida is not perfect. It is a nightmare of unregulated tort lawsuits to my limited understanding. But it is highly diverse, the weather is good, and a ton of money is flowing in. Same for Texas.

Meanwhile, compare to Illinois. Get back to me on that comparison.

I share similar observations as luckyone on social media presence. The Youtube responses on any and all DeSantis topics are things like "I am lucky to live in Florida!" and "We have the best governor!" Yet I would think Governor Abbott, who is pretty much joined to the hip with DeSantis on policy, would also have similar responses about Texas, but you don't see those.

I have seen several memes across social media about "don't California my Texas" and "when you move to Texas, you are a refugee, not a citizen".

seb146 wrote:

phatfarmlines wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

I doubt that. DeSantis hs high approval ratings and the Florida economy has been doing great during covid. The Trump tax changes accelerated the importance of state income tax for high income earners. There is a massive transfer of wealth into Florida and Texas happening. Look at the $10m+ housing in both states.

Florida is not perfect. It is a nightmare of unregulated tort lawsuits to my limited understanding. But it is highly diverse, the weather is good, and a ton of money is flowing in. Same for Texas.

Meanwhile, compare to Illinois. Get back to me on that comparison.

I share similar observations as luckyone on social media presence. The Youtube responses on any and all DeSantis topics are things like "I am lucky to live in Florida!" and "We have the best governor!" Yet I would think Governor Abbott, who is pretty much joined to the hip with DeSantis on policy, would also have similar responses about Texas, but you don't see those.

I have seen several memes across social media about "don't California my Texas" and "when you move to Texas, you are a refugee, not a citizen".

The usual ''Don't mess with Texas bull." And not the same as attributing the amazingness to a single governor. Nevermind that it also misses the plot that Texas benefits from a lot of cheap and flat land that California severely lacks after nearly a century of development, and ultimately Texas will incur a lot of the same problems of development as any other highly developed area.

luckyone wrote:

pune wrote:

How does AOC sound from the democratic side, she is young, has fire and the belly and strongly opinionated. Where does she appeal to independents and youngsters and how much? Could she be a potential VP material in current dynamics and if yes who would be her potential crew-mate for President be ???

For starters she will just barely be old enough to qualify by Election Day (she turns just 35 a few weeks before). As for the rest of your question,
No, she isn’t that favorably viewed by independents. A lot of them view her as part of the loud mouth problem.

Not so much her loud mouth but she is a female Bernie. Total non starter right there.

seb146 wrote:

I have seen several memes across social media about "don't California my Texas" and "when you move to Texas, you are a refugee, not a citizen".

Should read "Don't California my NY"

Why do people hate California so much, is it because there are lot of different ethnic communities that live there or is there something more ??? Hate, jealous whatever, would be nice to know as have at least a bit of context.

pune wrote:

Why do people hate California so much, is it because there are lot of different ethnic communities that live there or is there something more ??? Hate, jealous whatever, would be nice to know as have at least a bit of context.

It's an easy punching bag for politicians to rail against its problems, which like most things in California are scaled larger due to its massive population and massive economy. It mostly plays with people who've never been there.

luckyone wrote:

pune wrote:

Why do people hate California so much, is it because there are lot of different ethnic communities that live there or is there something more ??? Hate, jealous whatever, would be nice to know as have at least a bit of context.

It's an easy punching bag for politicians to rail against its problems, which like most things in California are scaled larger due to its massive population and massive economy. It mostly plays with people who've never been there.

Aha, ok that makes sense, thank you for clearing that up.