Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
MaverickM11 wrote:Cost of living is surprisingly pricey before you even consider the insurance issue, which is sky rocketing with no signs of abating. Totally unrelated to climate change which is #fakenews critical race theory that will never ever affect Florida
seb146 wrote:I would be interested to know the day-to-day expenses in Florida as compared to, say, Virginia or North Dakota. Things like food and gas and utilities and health care set up against the average paycheck. If a house is $75,000 that's great and all but if a person is only getting like $400 every two weeks, is that really affordable?
stl07 wrote:Honestly at this point, you may as well just live in San Diego or Orange County and at least get the massive salary bump if you want the tropical lifestyle.
In terms of tropical affordability, it's really limited to the deep south states. But those places have unbearable summers. That may explain the recent spike of Americans living in Mexico
luckyone wrote:I agree. I like hiking and used to backpack and do long distance bike rides. Heat and humidity is a killer, along with the bugs. I like the four seasons here in DTW.Agreed about the weather in the US Southeast. Having grown up there, I’d take a Midwestern winter over a Southern summer any time. I can always put on another layer if it’s too cold. I can only take off so many before I get arrested. And in general I’ve found cold weather to be a lot less limiting than the suffocating humidity of the US South.
Aesma wrote:GalaxyFlyer : from the video flood insurance is now needed everywhere in Florida, and as luckone said you need it if you have a mortgage. I don't get why the roofs aren't at least flat without overhangs, that should help in wind, no ?
Also the property taxes seem high (with a grandfathering for people being there a long time, so basically newcomers pay for everyone, what a nice welcome).
cjg225 wrote:Gotta separate Florida into at least a northern and southern half. Anything north of I-4, which connects Daytona, Orlando, and Tampa, is much different from what is on or south of I-4 (which is generally what people think of when they think "Florida").
Aaron747 wrote:Have spent enough time in FL to know you couldn’t pay me to live there.
luckyone wrote:stl07 wrote:I’d take a Midwestern winter over a Southern summer any time. I can always put on another layer if it’s too cold. I can only take off so many before I get arrested.\
GalaxyFlyer wrote:Aesma wrote:GalaxyFlyer : from the video flood insurance is now needed everywhere in Florida, and as luckone said you need it if you have a mortgage. I don't get why the roofs aren't at least flat without overhangs, that should help in wind, no ?
Also the property taxes seem high (with a grandfathering for people being there a long time, so basically newcomers pay for everyone, what a nice welcome).
From what people told me last month, there’s plenty of locales not requiring flood insurance. The whole peninsula won’t flood, heck large parts of Ft Myers didn’t flood. These people aren’t buying with mortgages.
stl07 wrote:Florida has also been ruined by transplants. It's basically gotten the reverse Austin syndrome with all the people in rural areas of states like IL are moving down instead of California elites like Elon Musk. Not that either is preferable
stl07 wrote:Honestly at this point, you may as well just live in San Diego or Orange County and at least get the massive salary bump if you want the tropical lifestyle.
Kno wrote:stl07 wrote:Florida has also been ruined by transplants. It's basically gotten the reverse Austin syndrome with all the people in rural areas of states like IL are moving down instead of California elites like Elon Musk. Not that either is preferable
How have transplants ruined Florida? It’s not like they had some awesome local culture to be corrupted in the first place…
luckyone wrote:GalaxyFlyer wrote:Aesma wrote:GalaxyFlyer : from the video flood insurance is now needed everywhere in Florida, and as luckone said you need it if you have a mortgage. I don't get why the roofs aren't at least flat without overhangs, that should help in wind, no ?
Also the property taxes seem high (with a grandfathering for people being there a long time, so basically newcomers pay for everyone, what a nice welcome).
From what people told me last month, there’s plenty of locales not requiring flood insurance. The whole peninsula won’t flood, heck large parts of Ft Myers didn’t flood. These people aren’t buying with mortgages.
I typically view "well this is what people are telling me," with a fair bit of skepticism because people can and will say anything, and it can also be due to a selection bias. But, having said that, if someone has the cash to self-insure, good for them. But for me, that raises an interesting question -- how much cash does one have to have for Florida to be cheap? And at what point does all this infusion of cash buying just make Florida another expensive place like New York? Is it going to be "cheaper" for the people cashing out of the I-95 corridor, but then obscenely expensive for the next generation? If you moved to the area of your choice, from what I can see, a 1200 sqft condo is going to start at 400k, and 3-4 bedroom homes starting in the 600s. I've no idea if that would be a bargain for you -- for me it wouldn't but we're not all looking at it the same. Either way it's hardly the cheaper costs of years prior. And what we can say, is that price range may not be attainable to first time home buyers, so what's that going to look like when you don't need the house anymore?
GalaxyFlyer wrote:luckyone wrote:GalaxyFlyer wrote:
From what people told me last month, there’s plenty of locales not requiring flood insurance. The whole peninsula won’t flood, heck large parts of Ft Myers didn’t flood. These people aren’t buying with mortgages.
I typically view "well this is what people are telling me," with a fair bit of skepticism because people can and will say anything, and it can also be due to a selection bias. But, having said that, if someone has the cash to self-insure, good for them. But for me, that raises an interesting question -- how much cash does one have to have for Florida to be cheap? And at what point does all this infusion of cash buying just make Florida another expensive place like New York? Is it going to be "cheaper" for the people cashing out of the I-95 corridor, but then obscenely expensive for the next generation? If you moved to the area of your choice, from what I can see, a 1200 sqft condo is going to start at 400k, and 3-4 bedroom homes starting in the 600s. I've no idea if that would be a bargain for you -- for me it wouldn't but we're not all looking at it the same. Either way it's hardly the cheaper costs of years prior. And what we can say, is that price range may not be attainable to first time home buyers, so what's that going to look like when you don't need the house anymore?
It’s not obtainable fir a first time buyer, it never is anything less than a stretch for the first time. I was petrified at my first home at 38 with 30% down. My God, how am I gonna pay for this. Money accumulated, it gets paid off.
You can buy in Florida in the 200-300 range without being in a swamp. You won’t be on the beach, but you won’t be in poverty. The pace of construction is fierce. Huge development in the 260-350 range right near the Sun ‘n Fly-in last week outside Lakeland, in between Tampa and Orlando.
The other notable—densification. Tampa area has many new large condo complexes, nearly European density is coming there.
bluecrew wrote:Hallandale Beach is basically Little Montreal, you're more likely to find an RBC branch than a Bank of America.
leader1 wrote:My wife used to live in Plantation. According to her, the cost of living wasn't low at all. Real estate was a little cheaper, but insurance and real estate taxes were high. I'm sure real estate is about the same as NYC (not including Manhattan) at this point. Cost of most items were about the same. And she made quite a bit less, even as a healthcare worker. In the end, she came out behind compared to working in NYC, even taking into account the lack of state income taxes. She ended up leaving because she didn't like it or the people and she thought it wasn't a good place for Asians (she's Chinese).bluecrew wrote:Hallandale Beach is basically Little Montreal, you're more likely to find an RBC branch than a Bank of America.
Ha! My grandparents had a place there and they were from Montreal. That was many years ago. Funny to see that nothing's changed in 40+ years.
STT757 wrote:The good thing about living in the Northeast, I live in New Jersey, is that there are some years where I don't use my heat or air conditioning for up to four months out of the year. There's nothing better than sleeping with the windows open, especially in Spring when the birds wake you. In Florida, you are going to need air conditioning probably 11 months out of the year. That not only drives up your utility bills, but also wears down your HVAC equipment faster.
I love Florida, but not so much between June and early November. When I retire, I'll probably rent a condo in Florida for two months each year, perhaps February and March. I would rather spend my summer weekends up at Lake Wallenpaupack or on Long Beach Island.
GalaxyFlyer wrote:I’m on 8 acres, in the summer I can’t even see my neighbors and think it’s too dense. I couldn’t stand living in a condo/development HOA. When we were looking for land, and agent mentioned deed restrictions or HOA, it was, “move on, we’re not interested Petty politicians telling me how to live. That is my one BIG reservation about Florida, indeed much of densified America—HOAs.
Aesma wrote:Can something be done about it, if climate change is really causing more and more storms and hurricanes ?
Aesma wrote:Can something be done about it, if climate change is really causing more and more storms and hurricanes ?
hh65man wrote:Aesma wrote:Can something be done about it, if climate change is really causing more and more storms and hurricanes ?
Build homes to higher standards. Double the walls thickness, triple pane glass windows, sorta the opposite of what Norway does…. They have their walls at 10 inches/25.5cm thick, helps keep out the cold…it would do the same for the heat. I’ve lived all over the place in my lifetime. I’d rather be warm then cold now that I am older. Sounds like Floridas increase in cost of living is very normal, more on par with the rest of the USA and world.
maverick4002 wrote:I've heard this. A few friends moved there during the pandemic and they said with the cost of needing a car and all the things that come with that, its about the same as living in NYC.
maverick4002 wrote:I've heard this. A few friends moved there during the pandemic and they said with the cost of needing a car and all the things that come with that, its about the same as living in NYC.
sierrakilo44 wrote:maverick4002 wrote:I've heard this. A few friends moved there during the pandemic and they said with the cost of needing a car and all the things that come with that, its about the same as living in NYC.
It’s the same withe all these “low tax” states, and the lower taxing USA in general.
Yeah, you may have less money taken out of your pay check by the government, but then you look at things like private healthcare costs, prescriptions, education loans, retirement costs, childcare costs, greater public transport costs, non subsidised EVs, disability care costs, lack of sick and maternity leave, and a dozen other things you’d probably find after you’ve paid for those costs you’ll have less money left over than those jurisdictions that have those things covered by taxes.
It’s not like lower taxes in a red state allow you to retire wealthy at 50 years old…….
GalaxyFlyer wrote:maverick4002 wrote:I've heard this. A few friends moved there during the pandemic and they said with the cost of needing a car and all the things that come with that, its about the same as living in NYC.
Where did they move to, Palm Beach? Or live in NYC, a cold water flat?
maverick4002 wrote:I've heard this. A few friends moved there during the pandemic and they said with the cost of needing a car and all the things that come with that, its about the same as living in NYC.
leader1 wrote:maverick4002 wrote:I've heard this. A few friends moved there during the pandemic and they said with the cost of needing a car and all the things that come with that, its about the same as living in NYC.
Exactly like what my wife said, and she was driving in NYC even before she had made the move. Other than real estate cots (and I’m sure that has changed now), the cost of living was no different and lower wages were a problem.
maverick4002 wrote:GalaxyFlyer wrote:maverick4002 wrote:I've heard this. A few friends moved there during the pandemic and they said with the cost of needing a car and all the things that come with that, its about the same as living in NYC.
Where did they move to, Palm Beach? Or live in NYC, a cold water flat?
ft. lauderdale
GalaxyFlyer wrote:Amazing how many deluded people keep moving to Florida, South Carolina and Texas, leaving IL, NY, etc,
https://www.northamerican.com/migration-map
GalaxyFlyer wrote:Amazing how many deluded people keep moving to Florida, South Carolina and Texas, leaving IL, NY, etc,
https://www.northamerican.com/migration-map
luckyone wrote:leader1 wrote:maverick4002 wrote:I've heard this. A few friends moved there during the pandemic and they said with the cost of needing a car and all the things that come with that, its about the same as living in NYC.
Exactly like what my wife said, and she was driving in NYC even before she had made the move. Other than real estate cots (and I’m sure that has changed now), the cost of living was no different and lower wages were a problem.
I rented in the Miami area. I’ve rented and owned in Chicago. I drove in both. I spent less money living in Chicago (I lived in a much more walkable area in Chicago and didn’t have to drive all the time and thus spent less on gas). I’ve lived (owned) in a nice area of Seattle. I spent no more than I would living in a comparable area of Florida, and absolutely spent less on utilities. I’m sure there are people for whom living in Florida can be cheaper, and if people want to live there fine, then they should. But as I’ve lived there, I also know that a lot of that is overstated.
Friends of my parents sold their house (which was paid off) in Atlanta and moved there…to pay $5,000/month in rent in a pretty bland suburb of Orlando because supposedly nothing else was available at the time. I’m sure there’s some accounting rules that may help them come out ahead, but that is not a bargain.
GalaxyFlyer wrote:Amazing how many deluded people keep moving to Florida, South Carolina and Texas, leaving IL, NY, etc,
https://www.northamerican.com/migration-map
tmu101 wrote:I know how you feel. I grew up in N. New Jersey as well but now live in Texas (DFW area) and I miss the seasons (a/c is on for like 7 months straight - wallet definitely does not like my summertime electric bills) . My wife says it is just different degrees of hot all year round. We tell people don't come visit in June July or August as it is too damn hot. It is a dry heat, though (well drier than Florida) to me at least. Wife and I always argue about it being dry (she grew up in CO - it's humid to her in the DFW area but for me being from NJ it is dry here by comparison). She says I'd have to be making 7 figures to ever consider living in Florida
STT757 wrote:Fall is the best time, weekends in New Hope, Lambertville, Peddler's Village, Playoff baseball etc.