McRingRing
Topic Author
Posts: 1028
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:59 am

Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 9:58 am

Now we have people crying and banning when others call them bad names in chat , which is a totally different entity that the forums. Aww, a bruised ego. Let me pet that for you. Since it is apparently easy to circumvent a chat ban (read: chat ops don't know how to do it), actions taken in chat are now leading to bans on the forums. I think we should all be made aware how far this reach goes. It kinda reminds me of when I was in high school they could suspend you if you got in a fight on a weekend in a different country.

OK, I just called a certain moderator a certain bad word in my head.

Users get upset, and rightfully so, when rules are created out of nowhere.

Will Matt D be punished for his unsavory thoughts about KROC, and vice versa?

I just want to be considered a "good user." But I'm afraid that if I don't know all the rules, I might break one inadvertently. And we don't want that to happen. So I ask, please clarify the rules regarding what falls under the forum ban umbrella.

Regards, (<----- sign of a "good user")

Mcringring




BONUS!!!: If chat is so closely tied to the forums, perhaps we should only let people use one name, their registered a.net username. If you don't have a registered username, too bad. Pony up $5 a month for the right to use the chatroom and the forums - even if you never use the forums. The moderators should be the same as the forum moderators, because consistency is important. Also, according to some moderators, the chat ops need some help. Let's get rid of them completely. Some moderators take their job so seriously that I'm sure they'll sit in the chatroom all day waiting for someone to break the rules.

B==============) ~~~~
 
fpdonald
Posts: 413
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 11:01 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:15 am

Mcringring:

I think the essence of this forum is to "moderate" oneself. To 'think before you speak, and/or type, and be a responsible citizen/member' -- not specifically you, but everyone.

This "is" a public forum, and a "themed" one at that. We have seen many tantrums, and yes, they should NOT be tolerated. We are all here by choice.

Lead by example, and the rest will fall into place . . . it may take time, but it will be for the benefit of everyone.


Personally, and I will say "personally," I do have one strong vote of eviction/conviction. I do think that "unnamed" has said his piece, and needs to take a veritable time out. Banish his user name, and let him come back when he is able to constructively contribute.

It's harsh, but then so is reality.


 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:18 am

Allright, a.net chatroom runs off of mIRC...it is not very feasible to regulate the usage of a.net chats as access cannot easily be directly controlled by Johan...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
McRingRing
Topic Author
Posts: 1028
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:30 am

USAFHummer: I know that. That's my point. It's a totally different system and should be handled as such.

What happens if someone not registered on a.net calls a chat op/moderator a bad name in chat?
B==============) ~~~~
 
fpdonald
Posts: 413
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 11:01 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:38 am

What happens if someone not registered on a.net calls a chat op/moderator a bad name in chat?

I would hope that the "someone" would be excluded from the chat. Isn't that how it works?

Chat shows both IP and ISP . . .

"Bad names" need not to be uttered, there are so many "other" words in the dictionary . . . yes?
 
McRingRing
Topic Author
Posts: 1028
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RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:50 am

Fpdonald, the issse is that, according to a moderator:

There is the possiblity for a chatroom ban to be by-passed


I would agree that banning the user from chat for a while would be the logical punishment. But if the user can easily circumvent the ban, there's really no punishment.

Anyway, that's not why I started this thread. I just want to know what areas outside the forums the moderators can take into account when justifying a ban.
B==============) ~~~~
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6792
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 11:09 am

Mcringring, hope you weren't thiunking about me  Wink/being sarcastic

how can I help? Like I emailed you last time, I am willing to call you and discuss your concerns.

regards, mirrodie
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
fpdonald
Posts: 413
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 11:01 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 11:10 am

Mcringring . . .

I can't answer your question to me . . . sorry.

I hope, and trust, that moderators take into account all aspects when justifying a ban. Overall conduct, facts, evidence . . . attitude. The crux is that they toil for free, get no recognition, yet are still human and appointed to "take care" of us.

A "bad name" you said . . . pick a word, any word. Respect is the theme, this forum crosses many languages, and many cultures. On the whole, bad is "bad." For each "bad word" there are several that convey the same meaning and are acceptable to all people.

Over time, justice will prevail . . . in the meantime, this is something that you need to address privately, I believe.


 
McRingRing
Topic Author
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RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 11:15 am

Mirrodie, I never read those emails. I guess they were deleted when I cleaned out the 150+ emails I got when I was on vacation. Hopefully there was nothing important in them. Big grin

Fpdonald, this is an issue that effects all users, so I think it is important to discuss it in the forums.
B==============) ~~~~
 
fpdonald
Posts: 413
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RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 11:27 am

Mcringring . . . this subject seems to have turned personal -- between you and a forum moderator -- Mirrodie. Since when do moderators make personal calls?

150+ e-mails for received over a vacation, seems minimal.

Again, this seems a personal matter in a public forum!
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6792
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 11:36 am

fpdonald, its not personal. I had discussion with him regarding forum management. I believe that is a public manner. my note simply states my availability to you all.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 7:35 pm

I feel that Mcringring makes valid points. There is nothing personal, or wrong, about wanting to have a clear understanding of the rules. Currently, there is nothing in the forum rules, that states Chat Room actions will now be held against you in the forums. Fpdonald has a point about "policing ourselves", but nothing is perfect, if it was, there would be no need for Chat Ops and Moderators. I understand that not everything will always be listed in the rules section. New circumstances ect., will always pop up, but when new rules pop up that can lead to bans and diciplinary action, something should be listed somewhere. I'm still trying to gt a handle on the decision making process as well, and having things like this clearly listed would be beneficial for all.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23390
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 7:56 pm

Mirrodie said:
my note simply states my availability to you all.

Just name the time and place  Big thumbs up
Signed, BA747-436  Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Guest

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:17 pm

Hi all,

Whilst I agree with the calls for explaination and I disagree with imposting bans in the forum for behaviour in the chat channel, I believe we have passed into the "flogging a dead horse" phase of this conversation.





VH-ADG
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
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RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:21 pm

In my humble opinion, if users questions are not actually being answered as they are stated, not as they are being interprated, these issues will never be resolved.
 
David_itl
Posts: 6395
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:43 pm


https://www.airliners.net/disclaimer/ may have covered the ban:

"In its sole discretion, and without liability, Airliners.net at any time and without notice may terminate or restrict user's access to this web site. Airliners.net may terminate or restrict user's access and change the Terms and Conditions effective upon notice."

David
 
McRingRing
Topic Author
Posts: 1028
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Sep 27, 2002 11:56 pm

All we need is someone (moderators or Johan) to step up and tell us what is fair ground for a ban and what falls outside.

"In its sole discretion, and without liability, Airliners.net at any time and without notice may terminate or restrict user's access to this web site. Airliners.net may terminate or restrict user's access and change the Terms and Conditions effective upon notice."

If the operators of this website have to fall back on disclaimers like that to justify a ban, the problem is bigger than originally thought.
B==============) ~~~~
 
TurbineBeaver
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:50 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:06 am

Let me try this again.....it got deleted. Surprise, huh?

Currently, there is nothing in the forum rules, that states
Chat Room actions will now be held against you in the
forums.


Ahaaaa! So, I ask you this, Moderators (Hepkat), for the 6th
time, may I please know WHAT RULE I BROKE when I was banned last
week. Is it really THAT tough of a question to answer, because
if you can't think of the rule off the top of your head, then
there IS something wrong/corrupt with the system. Obviously,
Hepkat didn't ban me for insulting him in the chat room,
because as KROC, a new moderator, has pointed out, there is NO
RULE regarding that. Hepkat, I'm sorry to say, but you keep
running away from this and telling me "I answered your
question." You HAVEN'T, that is why I keep asking it. Any
answer this time?

Cheers!

TB
 
gkirk
Posts: 23390
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:31 am

KROC is a moderator????  Wow!
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
McRingRing
Topic Author
Posts: 1028
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:37 am

I'm having trouble understanding why moderators can take the time to come into this thread to delete posts, but can't answer a simple question.
B==============) ~~~~
 
KLAX
Posts: 1568
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RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 2:15 am

Man, I dont even care anymore. Everyone needs to just mellow out...watch "Half-Baked" or somethin.... Big grin

-Clovis
 
TurbineBeaver
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:50 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 2:50 am

Sir Smoke A lot? Is that you?

McRingRing, I know how you feel. Happened in all three of my "Following the Rules" threads. Tons of time available for the mods to come in and delete everything, but they can't find a minute to explain things.  Yeah sure

TB
 
McRingRing
Topic Author
Posts: 1028
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:09 am

This isn't a difficult question. Can someone step up and answer it, please?
B==============) ~~~~
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:54 am

TB,

You broke two chatroom rules

1. Respect other users

2. Don't use harsh language.

Recently the chatroom operators have been complaining about the poor behaviour and language in the chatroom. As you were readily identifiable you were made an example of.

You brought this on yourself, if you acted maturely and didn't use foul language you would not have been banned. Learn to live with it, far worse happens out in the real world. An employer can fire you for using such language if someone complains about it.

Before you reply to this, consider that the owner & operator of this site was aware and agreed with what was proposed. When this was discussed with him he said, "I agree with the notion that flaming forum moderators in the chat is basically the same thing as sending hate mail to the moderators."

If you want to take this further contact Johan.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23390
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Sun Sep 29, 2002 1:59 am

Chatroom operators have also been complaining about forum mods invading  Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
TurbineBeaver
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:50 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:07 am

VC-10,

I have contacted Johan! He doesn't reply to me though. I understand I broke the chat room rules. I know I did, I'm admitting it. Now, why wasn't I banned from the chat room? Instead, I was allowed to continue to enter the chatroom, but banned from the forums? My bottom line is, it just doesn't make sense! I'm not saying whether or not you guys approved the ban or not, I am just trying to make sense out of it!

Cheers!
TB
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:48 am

I'm afraid I can't answer for the chatroom.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Sun Sep 29, 2002 9:11 am

TB

I can now see where you are coming from and I can understand your frustration. As you admit yourself, you had broken the chatroom rules and I had assumed you had been banned from the chatroom.

It looks as if there was a lack of communication between the the chatroom ops & the forum mods. In short we f..............er......messed up. I can only apologise for the confusing messages you recieved. I believe the A.net administration will have learn from this incident (I know I have).



That said, this does not mean that should a similar situation happen again, it will not result in a forum and chatroom ban should the ops & mods agree. (that's everybody,not just TB!).
 
User avatar
B747-437B
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RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Mon Sep 30, 2002 12:32 am

"In its sole discretion, and without liability, Airliners.net at any time and without notice may terminate or restrict user's access to this web site. Airliners.net may terminate or restrict user's access and change the Terms and Conditions effective upon notice."


Unfortunately, this caveat will NOT be applicable to First Class users. The basic tenet of contract law requires good faith provision of service, and implementation of this clause would violate that implicitly and explicitly. All First Class User transactions are subject to US law (since the payment processor, Paypal, is located in the US) and could open airliners.net up to some pretty big liability if mods start using that as a defense for suspending First Class Users who break the rules ANYWHERE other than on this forum.
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Mon Sep 30, 2002 12:52 am

B747-437B, such a lawsuit would be without merit as each user has agreed to the above terms before being given membership to this website. In addition:

We reserve the right to remove your First Class Membership and your forum username without re-paying any subscription fees if you severly violate the above rules or in other way severly hurt Airliners.net.
 
TurbineBeaver
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RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:05 am

VC-10,

WOW..........WOW. Man, you do not understand HOW MUCH respect you have just earned from me. That is what I've been getting at ALL along. It is VERY nice to see that someone has FINALLY come out, and said what happened, you see where I'm coming from, admit a mistake happened, and that I screwed up too, and is willing to move on. That is what I've been asking all along...why it was such a weird incident, that I was banned from the forums, but not the chat room. And, as I told you, I sent numerous emails to the moderators/Johan before I took this situation to Site_Related, with the reason I took it here is because I never ot an answer or any replies from my email inquiries. I would just like to commend you for sticking with me on this, and continually answering my questions, until both of us understood where the other one was coming from. I appreciate you moderating style, being up front, and perservering, Hepkat seemed to lock that first thread saying it was answered, when, if you look at it, nothing is answered in there, and then he hid in the second thread.

Thank you VC-10!

TB
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
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RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:25 am

KROC being made moderator...Turbine Beaver happy with the mods...man I think I need to go lie down.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
TurbineBeaver
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:50 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Mon Sep 30, 2002 3:45 am

I am happy with VC-10. I didn't say neccessarily ALL mods!!! I mean, who could be happy with KROC!?!?  Big thumbs up

TB
 
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B747-437B
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RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Mon Sep 30, 2002 10:24 am

B747-437B, such a lawsuit would be without merit as each user has agreed to the above terms before being given membership to this website. In addition:
We reserve the right to remove your First Class Membership and your forum username without re-paying any subscription fees if you severly violate the above rules or in other way severly hurt Airliners.net.


Hepkat mon ami, that would only apply to users who break the rules of airliners.net. Unfortunately, the law specifies that the rules for airliners.net do not extend beyond this website regardless what you or the other moderators may think. First Class Users who flame you on airWHINERS.net and have their airLINERS.net memberships suspended as a result without refund of subscription fees do indeed have sufficient cause for a lawsuit, despite any disclaimers to the contrary that you may think apply.

As long as you keep your nose clean over here and pay the $5 fee, you are pretty much a fixture regardless of what you may think or say about certain moderators elsewhere.
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:50 am

First off, I am VERY HAPPY Johan chose KROC to take over my place..

Mirrodie- You can NEVER become the Phone Slap  Big thumbs up

VC-10, I say it again, the chat room has never had an effect on moderating, so why does it now?

GKirk- Yeah.. I bet they are complaining when certain ppl go in there to "Help out".. I wasn't sure whether to laugh or puke

Till later all
Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
McRingRing
Topic Author
Posts: 1028
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RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Tue Oct 01, 2002 12:24 am

It seems we stumped the moderators on this one.  Insane
B==============) ~~~~
 
McRingRing
Topic Author
Posts: 1028
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Oct 04, 2002 7:53 am

OK, I've just been informed by nobody's favorite that private email can also be used as grounds for suspension and deletion.

So now there are 2 areas completely unrelated to the forums that can be used against a user. The chat room and email. If moderators have to resort to using statements from these areas to justify suspension and deletion and settle personal gripes, I think we have a problem.

Then again, judging from the lack of answers I see on this thread, we can hardly be surprised.  Insane
B==============) ~~~~
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Oct 04, 2002 8:20 am

It shouldn't take a genuis to figure out that sending flamebait emails to the moderators IS grounds for being banned. If certain users would only approach us in a civilized manner, then there would be no need for these rules. We are volunteers on this website, who willingly devote our time and efforts to make sure that you, the user, has a more pleasant experience while on a.net. We do not have to put up with people sending us abusive emails.

Furthermore, simply because the moderators don't respond to every post in every thread does not mean they're in any way "stumped". Maybe there's simply nothing worth saying.
 
McRingRing
Topic Author
Posts: 1028
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Oct 04, 2002 9:18 am

Is it not legitimite to ask where we are being watched? Or at least let us know why there is nothing worth saying on the subject.

I guess if you keep quiet about it you can keep making up rules to justify suspensions as things happen.
B==============) ~~~~
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Oct 04, 2002 9:04 pm

what about flamebait from a mod, if a mods rude to you in an email do they get suspended as well?
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
TurbineBeaver
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:50 am

RE: Where Am I Safe From Moderation?

Fri Oct 04, 2002 10:15 pm

Hepkat,

I have always approached you civily in private emails. Can't say you are too cooperative in replying though. I must say, it gets frustrating.

We are volunteers on this website, who willingly devote our time and efforts to make sure that you, the user, has a more pleasant experience while on a.net

-Uh, dude, I'm sure plenty of people wouldn't mind letting you step down from moderation, I understand it is a tough task and you aren't getting paid, so feel free to step down any time, people will probably get over their sadness eventually.

Go Canada, Good question, and it looks like we'll get it answered in 3 weeks. I don't see why mods have time to delete but no time to post? I have been flamed in email, and then I get banned for flaming in chat. I think our mods should have a thread called "new rules". After they delete someone, if that person was deleted for a new reason, they can post their "new rule" that they made up, so we are all kept updated as we go along.

TB

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