Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
PIA747
Topic Author
Posts: 596
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:46 am

Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:57 am

Where is the B747SP post referring to B747Skipper?
 
airxliban
Posts: 4307
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:21 am

I was wondering the same thing
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
FlyingColours
Posts: 2355
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:13 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:28 am

Sometimes a thread just dissapears and then comes back a few hours or days later.

A few did it last month too, just the forums I guess.

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:33 am

Just ask one of the administrators and see if they deleted it. This has happened to me several times in the past, where the post just shows right back up a few hours later. I guess the system gets backed up after a while.

Oh well. Cheers!
Crye me a river
 
tokolosh
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:02 pm

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:37 am

Dear everybody,

I posted the thread. It got deleted and I'm trying to get an answer as to why. It was going well, wasn't it?!

Greetings.
Did the chicken or the egg get laid first?
 
nwa man
Posts: 1752
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 1999 3:24 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:43 am

Check the other forums... usually they get moved.

This is a huge problem with A.net... for example, 3 threads about the Raleigh FA-18 crash yesterday were moved to "Military Aviation"... well, this is the place that people will look for it. I'd appreciate it if there was some way for the Goder... I mean moderators... to let us know when a thread gets moved.

For example, this thread will probably be moved to "Site Related" in a matter of minutes, and nobody following it here will have any idea where it went...


Regards,

N-Dub
Create your own luck.
 
A3204eva
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:25 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:43 am

Try posting this thread in the 'site related' forum Smile

A3204eva
"They have lady pilots......... they're not that good, but they have 'em"
 
Regis
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:49 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:47 am

I was looking for the B747skipper thread also. If it got deleted I think the administrators own us an explanation.

 
Guest

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:47 am

I am suggesting to move all this to "Site Related"...
Going to clicking right now...
xxx
And "I do believe" that the 747SP subject will come back, rather fast...
Or...
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper
 
tokolosh
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:02 pm

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:48 am

No, it was not moved. It was deleted.
Did the chicken or the egg get laid first?
 
tokolosh
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:02 pm

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 5:01 am

Skipper,

Agreed! Although the topic as such was civil related, but has not become site related.  Smile
Did the chicken or the egg get laid first?
 
VC745D
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:52 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 5:21 am

The thread "An Appeal to Passengers of Delta and USAirways" vanished several days ago without a trace. Any deleted thread should show as "padlocked", with reason given, for a certain period before being moved or permanently deleted.
 
yhmfan
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:44 pm

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 5:35 am

I posted a thread "Where is Piedmontgril?" last week and it got moved to site-related forum (Otherwise known as Siberia of A.Net)
I did, however, get an e-mail explaining why it was moved and where to.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
 
fly727
Posts: 1756
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:11 am

It's been happening a lot lately.

Do you guys remember yesterday's thread of "First Interview Invitation" in which a member of a.net (Saab2000) was happily sharing with us that he was invited to apply at an airline? Well., in that same thread, after congratulate him I expressed my happiness due that I also got accepted in an airline after a long time. Well.... Guess what? The thread was locked because the forum was "not a place to leave personal messages."

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1478350/

Of course there were people addressing to us because of the achievement!, of course they were saying to us nice things such as "good luck"!.

Tell me; what is the difference in the structure of that thread with the dozen of topics discussed everyday in the forums?

Or what?... Should we instead of saying: "Good luck Skipper in your journey" say "To those about to ferry an aircraft, good luck" (that way it won't be personal). Should we avoid addressing users in specific in order that this forum doesn't look as a "personal message board" or what? Come on! Give me a break!

I am terribly concerned about how unequal and little consistent is the work of some moderators. Apparently, some topics here challenges the relevance and importance of "The weirdest place you have done it" and other stupidities often found among the discussions.

Respectfully,
RM

PS. I sent a message to the Moderator about this problem yesterday before having to post it here. Didn't receive anything.
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
coa764
Posts: 309
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:32 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:18 am

I recently had two deleted. The moderator who flushes it will send you an e-mail letting you know why if you supplied a valid address in your profile. Below is the example of what I was sent.

Your message with topic "A Very Silly Question P2"
has been removed from the discussion forum on Airliners.net.
The reason is as follows:

USE RELEVANT AND DESCRIBING TOPICS
The topic of your message should describe as detailed as possible what your post is about. Examples of topics not accepted include:
"READ THIS",
"This is cool",
"Breaking news!!",
"A3XX"
"Please help!"
"Why did this happen?"
Use a topic like "A3XX first flight next Sunday" instead of "A3XX", a topic like "Why did SR111 go down?" instead of "Why did this happen?" and so on.

LOW QUALITY POST
Spend some time getting your post interesting and easy to understand.
Avoid posting "Me Too" messages. These are messages that are posted by people who agree to a point being discussed and post a one liner, "me too!" message. This takes up time as readers must sort through these messages which have no real value to the group at large. Any message containing nothing more than a line or two of text is probably not worth posting.

If you have something to say, say it, but be sure to mention your sources.
If you're speculating, be sure to make that very clear as well.


Please consider this to be a fair and friendly notice. In order for a forum to function in a way that benefits all its members, there have to be rules, both explicit and implicit.
Kindly stay within the rules in the future.

The rules of the forum (which you have agreed to follow):

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/rules.main?confirm=no
Please oh please Mr Moderator Nazi, dont delete my thread.
 
Jaspike
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:40 pm

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:18 am

I posted a thread "Where is Piedmontgril?" last week and it got moved to site-related forum (Otherwise known as Siberia of A.Net)

It would be busier if people posted in the correct forums!

Tom
 
caravelle
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 4:33 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:27 am

So any comments at all from moderators as regards the original question here?
I would very much like to know what happened....

-caravelle
Trains and boats and planes....
 
panam330
Posts: 2191
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:35 am

Are you not supposed to get an email stating your thread and/or post has been deleted? I got one the other for a post in someone else's thread, but I haven't been able to find my thread on non-stops to German "secondary" cities. I never got an email stating that the thread was deleted, either. Kind of weird, no?
 
airjampanam
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 3:06 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:53 am

The thread in question had to have been one of my FAVORITES in a long time!!
I'm not flying happy right now to hear it was deleted... bummer
Suing is the new Lotto... if u wanna win u gotta sue!
 
Regis
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:49 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:00 am

The thread about the 747SP ferry flight was great. Granted, it was turning into a tribute to B747skipper and to Argentina, but it still had more aviation related content than many of the threads currently being discussed on this board.

 
tokolosh
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:02 pm

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:08 am

Can we have the thread back please? We can continue the discussion that was ongoing.
Did the chicken or the egg get laid first?
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:16 am

I don't know... deleting a whole thread, especially after it had been running for quite a while, seems quite harsh: since I've joined a.net there have been so many threads that had gone way off topic, but the worst that ever happened was that they were archived, some where moved - most times a moderator put a message on the thread saying something along the lines of "stop now, or else...".

I really don't see what warranted the complete removal of the thread in question here - for quite a while it was very informative, aviation-wise...

I agree with Tokolosh - please give us that thread back!

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Guest

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 8:04 am

The matter is therefore quite simple.
xxx
I provided 747SP information in Civ.Av, the thread "degraded"...
Why was it not (then) moved to "Non.Av"... so simple "click" to make.
I tried to keep the information technical and factual.
Disculpes pra falar em portugues uma ves... what an insult not to use English.
xxx
For me the matter is simple. The 747SP thread returns (anywhere).
If it does not return... the solution is simple.
Find yourself another "resident Tech.Ops 747 pilot on duty".
The guys on my respected list are knowledgeable.
Sure, the moderator who took the decision to delete can do that job.
xxx
I am taking vacation (very long?) until that time.
A.Net Admin - your emails will not be read. - A.Net friends, welcome.
Keep in touch. If I am gone, keep my trademark "Happy contrails"...
All airplanes lovers should say "Happy contrails" to each other...
xxx
Thanks, merci, gracias, obrigado, grazie, dank U, danke, mange tak, spasiba, ephaestos, shukram, shukria, ubuca, santai, nazni... forgot the others...
xxx
Happy contrails, always  Smile
(s) Skipper

 
yhmfan
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:44 pm

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 8:42 am

It would be busier if people posted in the correct forums!

Jaspike;
Here is a suggestion:
Let all the forums (not just civil aviation) be reflected in the "Right now in the forum" of the Home page according to the time of posting.
Alternatively, have a page with, say, top 10 topics of all forums listed.
Either of these measures will also encourage users to post to the correct forum.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 9:08 am

I sent a message to the Moderator about this problem yesterday before having to post it here. Didn't receive anything.

You IM'd me and I replied within 15 mins.


The post was deleted (not by me) because all it consisted of was a whole series of personal messages to B747skipper. It clearly states in the rules personal message are not allowed.

[Edited 2004-03-28 01:15:22]
 
fly727
Posts: 1756
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 9:34 am

You surely replied to the wrong person pal; I didn't get anything, and believe me, I have lots of time in my hands right now to afford the luxury of checking my e-mails +5 times a day. That's soon to change... did I mention I got a flying job?

You IM'd me and I replied within 15 mins.

According to the standards we must follow... Isn't this an example of "personal message"?. Pat, pat, pat; Bad mod, bad mod...

RM
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
tokolosh
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:02 pm

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 8:01 pm

VC-10,

The post was deleted (not by me) because all it consisted of was a whole series of personal messages to B747skipper. It clearly states in the rules personal message are not allowed.

You are the first moderator to respond to this issue. Thank you for that. I have to strongly disagree with the reason for the deletion (i.e. that it was a series of personal messages to B747skipper). As far as I'm concerned there was a serious and mature discussion taking place and, looking at responses above, there are quite a few people who agree with that. I also believe the original topic absolutely belonged in the Cival Aviation forum: people discussing a forthcoming flight of a 747-SP with the pilot who is willing to share his experience with us, how much closer to the whole reason for this site can you get?

All my attempts to speak to admin about this question have failed. What must I do?

Greetings
Did the chicken or the egg get laid first?
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Post Deletion?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 8:46 pm

VC-10 (and any other moderator around), from a specific point onwards, the thread did contain messages to B747skipper - but for me, it was also a great insight into seeing how ferry flights are organized and carried out.

I've seen so many threads that clearly violate a.net-rules, the almost daily iteration of A vs. B comes to mind, without seeing those threads deleted completely: as I've said above, usually a moderator put a "stop it, or else..." message on the thread, and usually it worked: in the cases where that was not enough, most times the thread was archived with a message like "This thread has now gone on long enough" or "This thread has now gone way off topic".

It's especially sad to see that, through the deletion of this particular thread, a.net is risking the loss of B747skipper, doubtlessly one of the most respected members of this forum (which you can not only see in his RR, but in the fact that, when 747 related questions arise, an answer by him essentially stops all discussions: he simply knows what he's talking about)!

So, please: if the messages are still around in the database, please reactivate the thread (if not in Aviation, then at least in Non Aviation) - if the messages were deleted from the database with the deletion of the thread then please also state that clearly: I think the possible loss of B747skipper is more than enough reason for that.

To B747skipper: I hope that you will be back with us soon, your insights were always very welcome and extremely informative - I hope that the admins can and will agree with that.

And now, for my new way of ending my messages... with the hope that you'll continue to do so around here as well...

Happy contrails,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Theiler
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:24 am

The post was deleted (not by me) because all it consisted of was a whole series of personal messages to B747skipper. It clearly states in the rules personal message are not allowed.

Honestly, by that same standard, 90% of the non-av forum should be weed-whacked.. Between 4,000 redundent political threads, personal attacks, and "look at me" threads, it's starting to get pretty bad in there, again.
 
Type-Rated
Posts: 3901
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 1999 5:18 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:40 am

And where did the wake turbulence thread go? There was a good explanation/discussion of this phenomena going and the whole thread disappeared shortly after I responded with more details. I did not receive an e-mail stating it was deleted.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:21 am

 
Guest

RE: Post Deletion?

Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:34 pm

To Johan and Crews -
xxx
I reiterate the facts.
An entire thread was deleted, because it did indeed contained personal messages directed to me. Yet, as many of you mention it, it contained a lot of information and insights about the way airplanes are sometimes ferried. Further, it deals with a type of aircraft that is becoming rare. I provided information where the airplane flies from/to, and where it will be seen.
xxx
The trigger-happy individual who decided to delete this ENTIRE THREAD, because some postings had the alternative, to move it elsewhere, such as non-aviation if he wished to, or to delete the individual postings which were considered to be personal messages. He failed to do so, thus removing the valid information I provided to the 747 SP enthusiasts. I once again request the thread to be restored, in a manner that fits A.Net standards.
xxx
I would also like to know the name of the individual, and why I was NOT notified of the deletions.
xxx
Another opinion. There are times that some A.Net rules should be decently ignored. I refer here to Jetguy's "My Dad" wich got locked-up. Jetguy is a valuable A.Net member and contributor to Tech.Ops which is an outstanding aviation forum. I also recall a similar incident regarding a thread about Capt. Al Haynes (UAL DC-10 accident) as his daughter was facing extreme medical expenses.
xxx
Aviation is a large brotherhood and family. If A.Net wants to be respected, the rules should be ignored in such cases, as they show the support of aviation people and enthusiasts for each other. We are not abusing of the A.Net rules, and we support them, but exceptions should be made when circumstances dictate.
xxx
Again, if I do not obtain satisfaction for the reinstatement of the 747SP ferry subject thread, I will no longer be active, as this indicates that my contributions are no longer welcome.
xxx
Happy contrails - always...
(s) Skipper

 
WellHung
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:50 pm

RE: Post Deletion?

Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:56 pm

if I do not obtain satisfaction for the reinstatement of the 747SP ferry subject thread, I will no longer be active, as this indicates that my contributions are no longer welcome.


*glove slap*



get over it... no one even implied that
 
msllsmith
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:25 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:22 pm

To Whomever,

I am shocked, by the: deletion of the very valid and useful thread 'Skipper B747 ferry thread', and by the lockout of Jetguy's "My Dad" thread......

Actually, and I'm pretty sure from having read his responses, 'Skipper would agree with me, the issue of Jetguy should be addressed first. Jetguy, a very valuable, knowlegable and loyal contributor to this site, derserved to let his friends know about his Dad and most importantly, get condolence messages from us on the same. Period. This is a place which encompasses all time zones and all the horrible little nasty hotels we've all stayed in.... it encompasses all the times we've stayed awake and been efficient when other people would be calling it quits. People in Aviation rarely have the luxury to see someone and say, "See you at Bar XYZ after work". or pass someone in the hallway and say, "Did you hear about So-and-So's Dad?".... We don't see each other every day in the elevator on Wall St., or the Starbuck's outside the subway station every morning. We see each other on-line. We may never actually meet each other.... in the flesh..... but we have met each other in the most important places.... the intellect, and the spirit. We have, as someone else said, a "Brotherhood", which maybe is either taken for granted, or is not understood..... I'm opting for the latter, to give the benefit of the doubt to the more "?????? challenged" on the site....

Enough said about Jetguy, he's probably squirming at the attention.

I'ld also like to address the " 'Skipper Ferry" thread..... we act as though 'Skipper were a dinosaur..... as he sometimes modestly refers to himself, well, obviously, he's not... he's too young, and obviously, the information he has been very gracious to offer to this site is very valuable..... I really hate to sound like Hamlet's uncle.... but sometimes, youth is a disadvantage. Some of you guys out there will be, if you're very lucky, flying 'old' a/c.... like (ha-ha) B747-200s some day.... in your dreams, if you are fabulously lucky..... you'll get to fly right seat in a RJ..... listen to these fellows.... this is the hanger talk of the Jet age...... Print it out. You may need it sometime.

My respect rating is small.... and I don't understand it anyway...., so I guess I have nothing to lose,.... I only came here to learn. I think it's a worthwhile place, as long as there are experienced, intelligent occupants.


WBRs
LLSmith

There's nothing more beautiful than flying into the dawn.
 
fly727
Posts: 1756
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:44 pm

Msllsmith: I can't think of any other words but "Thank you" for saying that. It was touching.... for me it was. Brotherhood, love, aviation. I don't need nothing else....

Sister, check your profile.

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:50 pm

Ok, I may have been hasty in locking the "My Dad Thread" but I had let it run a couple of days after seeing it so I though now was the time to lock it. Due to the complaints please place your condolance messages in Jet Guy's follow up post "Thank You".

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/84948/

I will leave this thread open for 7 days and then move it to non-av.

Once a thread is locked it cannot be un-locked.


B747skipper.

You were not notified of the deletion because you did not start the thread.

Last time a post of yours was deleted you threatened to leave the site. I find it strange that a man of your maturity resorts to a "if you don't do what I want, I won't play anymore. I'll take my ball away" attitude.

You contributions to the this site are most welcome and valuable, but threats to leave are not going to re-instate posts. Everybody has post's deleted from time to time, it's not important, this is an internet site, not life & death.
 
Regis
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:49 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:12 pm

Can we please have the administrator who deleted this thread (not VC-10) to have the guts to manifest himself here and share with us the reasoning behind his decision to:

- Delete the entire thread instead of deleting the individual posts that were supposedly violating forum rules?

- Not to provide any kind of warning of his actions as it is the custom on this forum when posts are violating rules?

- Not to move the thread to the non-aviation forum if he thought the thread didn't belong in the civil aviation forum?

I am not asking to have the thread back, only to have the responsible administrator address the concerns of the 20 plus a.net members puzzled by the vanishing of a legitimate and popular thread.

The only response so far, provided by VC-10, is that the thread "violated the rules". That is a very arbitrary response in my opinion. I believe that this thread has generated enough interest in this board (35 replies + hundreds of views) to warrant a more elaborate answer from the responsible administrator.
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:53 pm

<>B747skipper.

You were not notified of the deletion because you did not start the thread.

Last time a post of yours was deleted you threatened to leave the site. I find it strange that a man of your maturity resorts to a "if you don't do what I want, I won't play anymore. I'll take my ball away" attitude.

You contributions to the this site are most welcome and valuable, but threats to leave are not going to re-instate posts. Everybody has post's deleted from time to time, it's not important, this is an internet site, not life & death.

VC-10

Why don't you write this in a personal E-mail with this message to him instead of letting all of us know about your opinion about B747Skipper? I thought the Crews in here were more professional than this.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:15 pm

Why don't you write this in a personal E-mail with this message to him

because from 'skippers second post on this thread:-

A.Net Admin - your emails will not be read.
 
Guest

RE: Post Deletion? And Other Stuff

Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:27 pm

First of all, I'd like to thank Skipper, Msllsmith, and EVERYONE else for their defense of my thread. You folks are certainly a class act and you can not have a first-class forum without first-class folks. OK, enough of this.

I've also got a beef with VC-10...
I just had a post deleted - the one where I asked for resumes for an entry level copilot at our company. Personally, I thought that I would try and give an opportunity to jumpstart their career to someone in A.net. VC-10 deleted the thread. Just one man's opinion, but sometimes it ought to be OK to look the other way.

Concerning VC-10 and Skipper...
Skipper is an experienced senior Captain; VC-10, an experienced aircraft mechanic. Unfortunately, there sometimes seems to be a lot of "hard feelings" that come to the surface when pilots and mechanics interact at any level. There have been several threads in the past where the debate (and name calling) has become quite heated. It's too bad, but we're not going to change it here. It's been going on since Wilbur asked Orville to fix it. My opinion it that VC-10 is simply letting his personal feelings bubble up.

Jetguy

[Edited 2004-03-30 15:35:36]
 
gordonsmall
Posts: 2106
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2001 1:52 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:14 am

This is getting beyond a joke!

If the mods are going to insist on applying the rules so vigorously then surely it has to be done on every post in every thread! In a quick sweep of the forums over the last 25 mins I've found almost 30 posts which blatantly break one or more of the rules, but the point is that these infringements are so minor that it isn't even worth clicking the suggest deletion button!

Locking Jetguy's post about his dad shows a total lack of compassion, and in my opinion borderlines on being inhumane.

Deleting Skippers post about the 747SP in my opinion is just plain lazy - I'd be willing to bet that the only reason it was deleted and not moved was because it took a few less mouse clicks to delete it!

Now deleting Jetguy's topic about the Bizjet job is sheer insanity - the Tech ops forum was once what I once considered the most high quality aviation forum on the internet, job postings should be what it's all about - like minded people all sharing aviation information.

I seriously feel this could be the beginning of the end for the forums here at airliners.net. Tech/ops was the only decent, high quality forum on here - but with the recent loss of members such as Skipper, M717, Spitfire and now possibly Jetguy the tech/ops forum will turn into a graveyard - it's going to die a slow death.

Look at any of the serious technical discussions in the Tech/ops forums, I'll guarantee you Jetguy and Skipper and a very few others are most likely the source of most of the quality information - can we afford to alienate people such as them?

So far we have managed to seriously upset 2 of the most helpful and reliable members of the forums over what are stupid, ridiculous, minor and unimportant infringements of the rules. Yet countless others get away with clearly breaking the rules with no intervention on behalf of the moderators!

I notice on this thread https://www.airliners.net/discussions/site_related/read.main/19839/ that Johan indicates that a more hard-line stance will be taken on infringements of the rules - Could it be that this has been taken a little too far?

Perhaps a little common sense would save a lot of grief and hassle in the future?

Regards,
Gordon.
Statistically, people who have had the most birthdays tend to live the longest.
 
AC320
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Post Deletion?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:41 am

People call for more strict rule enforcement then whine when rules are enforced. Interesting. So, tell me what kind of balance is desired?
fuddle duddle
 
fly727
Posts: 1756
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:10 am

A.net is a fine site, definitely the place where I spend most of my time on the net. No doubt about the quality of the pictures and that the content of Civil Aviation and the fun of Non-Av. have no equal... This is and will be one of my favorite cyber-places.

Sadly Tech/Ops is becoming another story... the departure of fine members and contributions will lower the interest of the forum.....

I like to think there is a cycle for everything... maybe Tech/Ops is completing one. Sad, because it was a well-organized and rich place to learn from. The permanent impetus to share knowledge and give a few strength words once in a while will remain constant among the members... that is the truth; so either we forget about all the problems and start again or we look for a place to discuss a wider selection of topics.

this is an internet site, not life & death.
You have never been so right.

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
learpilot
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 11:07 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:25 am

Now deleting Jetguy's topic about the Bizjet job is sheer insanity -

What an understatement! If you can't attempt to help someone from this site break in to the aviation industry, what's the point of even coming here?

Ok, I may have been hasty in locking the "My Dad Thread" but...

VC-10, May I ask what was even the point to locking that thread? Why lock any thread? What if someone has something relevant to add to a discussion, but can't because it's been locked? Wouldn't it make more sense to let them add it to the existing thread instead of having to start a completely new one?

I just don't understand the point of locking threads, unless they've degenerated to something completely off topic. On another aviation site I frequent, if you want to add a comment to a thread that's two years old, you can. Why can't you here? It makes no sense.
Heed our warnings or your future will be underpant free!
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:36 am

Jetguy,

When you signed up to a.net you agreed to abide by the rules. Rule 15 of those rules states:-

Do not post advertisements for web pages, chain letters, pyramid schemes, virus warnings or other solicitations, regardless of whether you believe they are aviation related or of vital value to humanity; this includes signatures! We charge $200 US dollars per hour for ads visible in any of the discussion forums. You may however post a link to a website that is of high relevance to a certain discussion, but be aware: if it looks anything like an ad then it will be deleted.

It can't be any clearer.

Let us just suppose I did look the other way, it would be the green light for more ads. What about the next ad to appear, do I look the other way on that to? And the one after that?

If I delete the second ad to appear how do I justify that I looked the other way when you posted your ad? How would you feel if you were the poster of the second ad and I deleted it while allowing the first one to remain?



I looked the other way for a period of time on the post about you recent berevment, even though shouldn't have been posted in that forum, because it was the forum where your contacts were. I closed it because I thought it had run its course, I have since admitted I was a bit hasty in doing that, and I apologise if it has caused you any hurt. However I can't continue to turn a blind eye.





As to you second point. I take exception to your last remark. I am a professional Licenced Aircraft Engineer just as you and all pilots are professionals in your field. Aviation is not an area where it pays to hold grudges, it does not bode well for flight safety.

Why should I have any feelings against 'skipper? I have never met him. I don't know what circles you mix in, but in all my working life I have never met an engineer who has held a grudge against Flt Crew.

From a personal point of view one of our 747 Captains is someone I trained as an apprentice engineer. I meet him regularly on a professional basis and do not have a problem with him. I could of gone down the road of trying to get my CPL after gaining my PPL but I didn't. That was MY choice. You, B747skipper and others chose to go down that road. Good luck to you is what I say.

You say There have been several threads in the past where the debate (and name calling) has become quite heated.

Well I have never experienced that in the Tech/Ops forum and neither has 'skipper from what he has posted in this forum.




Gordon,

job postings should be what it's all about

I refer you to rule 15. If you feel it is time for change please e-mail Henks.

countless others get away with clearly breaking the rules with no intervention on behalf of the moderators!

So you have identified rule infractions and not brought then to the attention of the mods. If you don't do your part you are in no position to complain
 
wilco
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:34 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:58 am

Dear A.Net Moderators....
I am a new A.netter, only a month or so now. My respect rating is low. perhaps you'll still give my opinion some consideration because I PAID the "first-class" membership fees...

In the short time I have been here I have found 747skippers posts extrodinarily insightful. There are organizations that would pay THOUSANDS of dollars to have a 747 expert available at there beck-and-call just for a day. I see this guy posting answers to people's questions 24hours a day ... from the thoroughly complex aircraft systems to silly remedial questions about flight. The skippers responses are always accurate, professional and easy-to-understand. As a paying customer I am offended that this thread was deleted. There are plenty of posts that are deserving of deletion and go untouched. The only payment the Skipper gets for his incredible support of A.net and its users is messages of thanks. A.NET moderators should be the FIRST ONES to be thanking the skipper, but instead you are doing quite the opposite.

As for the "my Dad" post by jetguy. Give me a break A.Net.... this post helped cement this online community. It makes me want to come back every few hours and see what has happened. These kinds of posts are what makes me PAY $$$ for membership... I SUGGEST YOU REVISE YOUR RULES now that you know your customers are unhappy with them.

If you are going to continue to erratically enforce your rules why not start with the negative posts first, not the positive ones.

Happy Contrails,
Wilco
"Ever seen a grown man naked?"
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3961
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:40 am

I just now have caught up on this situation, as I have been out on a trip...
I've been on this site for 4 years... it has always amazed me the occasionally sheer immaturity and lack of thinking from the "higher up" people that shows up occasionally. These people that you are messing with are not the typical 13 year old airline CEO wannabes...these are highly experienced flight officers with a tremendous amount of experience and insight. If i weren't a legacy member and not have to pay for this site, I can certainly tell you that with the status quo, there is no way I would start paying to become a member. No...way...unless alot of changes are to be made. Granted... Im not exactly overflowing with money either with my job....

I didn't know that we had lost M717 (AirTran 717 driver)....and with Skipper on hold....those are two extremely high quality members that the situation with the moderators on this site have "run off." I joined this site when I didn't even have my commercial pilots license... now I fly the CRJ for a large regional airline in the US. These members I have learned a tremendous amount from. I try to contribute a bit of my limited experience in the forums- nothing can replace the years of learning the hard way these aviators share with us.


I would also like to state that I am absolutely appalled at the deletion of Jetguy's "My Dad" thread.... have you no heart? I know you let him put up another post...but what's done is done and character shows. Obvious reasons why people refer to this site as "airwhiners.net".... Ive mentioned it to a few of my buddies at my airline...interesting some of the responses that I get, espcially about civil av. "immature, whining, and uninformed" being some of the most common phrases...


Anyways..here's to hoping that Skipper comes back... Moderators- please make the right choice in this sitaution.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
Guest

RE: Post Deletion?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:55 am

VC-10 -
xxx
As you said yourself, I did not start the thread about the 747SP ferry flight I am supposed to do in a few weeks. I merely answered questions, which were at times personal in nature, but continued to provide specific information as to which way airplanes are ferried when they do not belong to organized airlines. The postings which were personal could have been selected for deletion, rather than deleting the entire thread. Right or wrong...?
xxx
Jetguy, you idiot...
You dared ADVERTISING a pilot job, to possibly HELP one of our Tech.Ops friends who dreams about a career as pilot. You see, I could also give "tips" about jobs with my airline without naming it (yet everyone knows which one), but that could possibly have passed through if I had worded it by saying "my airline is about to select 18 first officers for 737/MD80s"... that is NOT advertisement... just a "tip"... If you had ADVERTISED a technician job at LHR to maintain your airplanes, maybe VC-10 would forget to click "delete", and quickly ask you who to contact.
xxx
I think that "pprune.org" is much more lenient with people like you and me, Jetguy, and at least, they do not mind open discussions about technical aircraft data, personal messages "hey Pablo etc." and plain job advertisement. A.Net will remain the best for aircraft pictures, but Tech.Ops. will become the site to discuss how short flight attendant's skirts were with PSA in the 1960s.
xxx
As to assisting, with our knowledge, to improve A.Net, we can get on A.Net and start clicking our hearts out, with "suggest for deletion" hundreds and thousands of postings in A.Net, sitting on the "RULES" as VC-10 does. It would probably help him, since he prefers to single us in his endeavours of deletion powers. Yourself, myself, and those "we respect" will be fast to abandon Tech.Ops when they realise the fallacy of their interpretation of "Rules"...
xxx
Airliners Net is strictly a commercial-for-profit organisation and is not dedicated to assist aviation professionals and enthusiasts in their interests. Like you and me, Jetguy, VC-10 is exploited for his time to permit A.Net to reap their revenues in advertisements which I ignore anyway. I was just here because I have made many personal friends, despite the distance, and it was with pleasure that I gave them my best information or advice.
xxx
Happy contrails, always  Big grin
(s) Skipper
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3468
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Post Deletion?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:18 am

Skipper, Jetguy, FSU, and others...

I am in total agreement with all of you, as usual. As a pilot myself (albeit without nearly the same amount of experience as all of you, but I'm working on it), I find these boards to be, as of late, completely useless. I have also come to observe that the forums (ALL of them) have essentially become a laughingstock amongst higher airline personnel (obviously not entry-level positions like ticket counter workers and, arguably, flight attendants).

After being slammed by private e-mails after defending the flight crew of the UTA charter jet that went down in Benin (not saying they didn't cause the accident, just merely pointing out that we can't definitively say it's their fault yet), I am really cutting my time on this site back as well, even though I don't pay for membership (legacy). As a pilot and flight instructor, I would have thought that I could have made a positive contribution in the same way you guys have. However, that turned out not to be the case. Until the recent moderator crackdown in Tech/Ops which I found to be totally unnecessary, I regarded THAT forum as a safe haven in which users could ask their questions and get intelligent, factual answers. However, it appears the odds are against the "knowledgeable guys". It's truly a shame.

I suppose this post will be deleted and I will be banned (a la DeltaGuy for defending you guys), but this needs to be said, regardless of consequence.

I'm not even going to go into the power trips and inferiority complexes exhibited by SOME, not all, of the moderators. The chat room fiasco speaks for itself there, I believe.

Thanks for all your help during all my flight training!
JBirdAV8r
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
Guest

RE: Post Deletion?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:30 am

Dear JBirdAV8r -
xxx
Oh, you know, when these clique of "delete-click happy" (funny, the similarity of clique and click) idiots, will run out of arguments, they will simply lock this thread, or even delete it, their solution for all problems.
xxx
They will be left with the sex starved (in Non-Av. - aviation is it?) teens and almost adults to play with their delete triggers. If you really want to read about airplanes, rumours, jobs, technical data, and give personal messages, you can switch to www.pprune.org without fear of a frustrated moderator.
xxx
A.Net will just remain for excellent pictures... with no Tech.Ops to talk about. It is their loss, not ours, see it this way, and www.pprune.org is absolutely free of charge. No respect rating, no bull, nothing, nada... just plain info of what is going on with airplanes, airlines and pilots.
xxx
Happy contrails, always -
(s) Skipper

PS - Edit - You know, I just went to read the UTA accident thread in Civ.Av, I used to fly 727s... there is gross misinformation on almost any and every posts, on that subject of the accident... i.e. V1 is equal to VR in 727s. What are these "experts" talking about. So don't worry about your nasty emails... when I take off with an airplane, I put the weight given to me by load control, I do not weigh every single suitcase and correct the numbers given, on the load sheet. And 30 passengers extra, that is 6,000 lbs, do not make an airplane crash... there are probably other reasons the investigation will find.
xxx
Darn it... wrong site for my P.S. ...  Big grin

[Edited 2004-03-31 02:52:36]

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