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ExitRow
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Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 3:51 am

Johan -

This has been discussed before, but never resolved. Your attention would be appreciated.

Currently, there is a thread in the Aviation Photography forum that is doubting the authenticity of photograph by a prominent and highly respected contributor to your web site:
https://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/130259/

These kinds of threads are almost always started by individuals that have very little knowlege of fundamental photographic principles. (Focal distance immediately comes to mind.) These individuals also rarely offer up any tangible evidence that an image has been manipulated or outright fabricated. It is my opinion, and others I believe, that these sorts of threads add little value and conversely cast a bad light on many qualified photographers that actively submit content to this site.

These threads come up repeatedly. Unqualified or misguided critics are immediately scolded by screeners and members and eventually, after most of the damage has already been done, the thread is locked.

This lackadaisical response to these accusatory threads needs to change if A.net truly respects the integrity of its photographers. Why? Simple.

1.) The images in the database have already gone through a rigorous and extremely difficult screening process. If an image has gone by three screeners, it's authenticity should be assumed. To allow these accusations to stand is to discount the hard work of both photographer and screeners.

2.) Many photographers are not members of the forums and may be unable to defend their own work. (As if they would even NEED to defend a shot accepted tot he database.)

3.) These forums are archived and can be viewed by anyone searching the internet with Google. Disparaging remarks on a photographer's integrity is a big, BIG deal. It should not be handled lightly. These forums are archived on the Internet indefinitely. And indefinite, unsubstantiated black marks on a photographers reputation can indeed hurt them in the future. Whether it be a lost assignment, lost sale of an image or doubts about the authenticity of their work.

A solution to this is that all threads regarding authenticity (read: "fake") should immediately be deleted and an e-mail sent to the thread starter requesting their reasoning for believing a shot has been altered. If they do not have standing, the user should be warned. If they reoffend, they should be suspended for a period of time. There must be consequences. These need to be deterred.

Newspapers, publications and stock agencies defend their photographer's integrity. I believe A.net should as well if it continues to be the leader in this niche.

If you are a photographer/contributor and agree with this statement, please append your name below.

Thank you for your attention Johan.

=======================

William Anthony. Seattle, WA.

[Edited 2004-04-30 20:55:25]
 
timz
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 3:58 am

"If an image has gone by three screeners, it's authenticity should be assumed....

"(As if they would even NEED to defend a shot accepted tot he database.)"

So, if they need no defense, what's the problem?
 
Jaspike
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 4:00 am

There's just been one in Civil Aviation that was deleted about the SAA photos. I don't believe that some people actually feel the need to post a thread on a forum like this and just accuse the photographer of uploading fake photos..

From the rules:
Please word all criticism, whether of another user's opinion, a photograph, crew member, a political topic, etc., in a constructive manner. Criticism which serves no purpose other than to flame or insult will be deleted and your account possibly suspended.
Accusing photographers of fake photos is not constructive criticism, therefore against the rules.

Tom
 
ExitRow
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 4:13 am

"Timz" (real name withheld) -

My point is that photographers shouldn't ever HAVE to defend their work if the shot gets in the DB. But, unfortunately, they do when these threads are allowed to stay. To not defend their work could be construed by some as guilt.

And that's flat out wrong.

Example: The very same "Timz" wrote in the other thread:

Until he speaks up, I'm guessing he could care less. Why does everyone else get in such a tizzy?

william

[Edited 2004-04-30 21:17:10]
 
timz
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 4:17 am

Well, it'll be interesting to see whether Johan agrees. I hope not.

If he does agree, it would be nice if it were up to the "accused" photographer whether the "accusing" thread should be deleted. If the photographer doesn't give a hoot, let it stay.

"Example: The very same "Timz" wrote in the other thread:

Until he speaks up, I'm guessing he could care less. Why does everyone else get in such a tizzy?"

Example of what?


[Edited 2004-04-30 21:20:51]
 
ExitRow
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 4:25 am

Example of what?

An example of how the burden of proof is suddenly shifted onto the photographer from someone unqualified to do so.

It's not a difficult concept. Timz.

By the way... how many photos have you contributed to this site?

Until you prove your qualifications to criticize, I'll just assume you are an armchair photographer with no skills at anything but criticising others and trolling internet forums. There, the burden is back to you.

 
timz
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 4:41 am

"Until he speaks up, I'm guessing he could care less. Why does everyone else get in such a tizzy?"

You respond that this is "An example of how the burden of proof is suddenly shifted onto the photographer from someone unqualified to do so."

Ah... sure enough. I see where I talked about the "burden of proof". Thanks for pointing it out.

What are the "qualifications to criticize"?
 
jderden777
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 4:42 am

being one of the photographers that contributes to the site, and also having photos of mine be openly stated as being "fake," i agree with William...

it's just not fair to have all these people accusing the photographers who take their precious time to upload to this site to have their work mocked or being openly suggested as being fake...it's an insult to the photographer(s) and it should stop...

it's difficult to get photos accepted onto the database....it shouldn't be difficult for photographers to defend their own work when subject to the ignorance of others...

jonathan d.
"my soul is in the sky" - shakespeare
 
timz
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RE: A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 4:47 am

Well, so much for that theory-- some photographers DO care about the "accusations". I'll be darned.

But I still hope they don't get their way.
 
ExitRow
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 4:52 am

But I still hope they don't get their way.

Johan, this is the indignant attitude I speak of. What has this user contributed to this site? (Note he's grandfathered in on the username.) So far, very little. As a matter of fact, as Jaspike has illustrated, he's broken forum rules and if I am not mistaken, can be suspended for it.

Do you want these sorts of individuals to dominate discussion and discourage those that truly support your site?

I look forward to your response.

william
 
timz
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 5:01 am

"As a matter of fact, as Jaspike has illustrated, he's broken forum rules and if I am not mistaken, can be suspended for it."

When you submit your complaint to the moderators, don't forget to point out the offending passage. Might as well save them the effort of hunting for it.
 
jderden777
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 5:11 am

Timz
believe it or not photographers DO care about the fake threads...at least i do...it's just becoming so much of a nuisance that i'm sure many of them are tired of trying to fight against such accusations...

the "fake" threads are just a waste of space on the site...and to be honest it's a waste of time for a photographer to try and convince the accuser that the photo is real, because usually no matter what the photographer says somebody will continue ranting on about how it's a fake photo....so what's the point in wasting the time it takes to write out an explanation...just like it's a waste of time typing this out for you to read...

"my soul is in the sky" - shakespeare
 
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JeffM
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 6:12 am

I'm in as well. There is no need for "hit and run" accusations about the legitimacy of someone's photo. Photographers DO CARE, about what is said.

Jeff
 
ExitRow
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 8:51 am

I'm glad to see the thread highlighted above deleted. To the Mods, thank you.

To avoid these problems in the future, a mandate from Admin concerning "fake" threads and a formal rule change in the forums would be commendable.

Again, thank you for you attention in this matter.

william

 
2912n
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 10:53 am

I care about it. I am lucky enough not to have been accused in this forum of having a "fake" photo, but I take it as an offense when people who don't know what the hell they are talking about accuse others of faking something. If someone suspects a fake and have the ability to show how a photo is a fake they should take it up with the admin. For some punk to just shoot of their mouth with nothing to back it up....
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 5:05 pm

From the Moderator's point of view, if an accusation is made against anyone, and cannot be backed up with evidence to our satisfaction, then the offending post or posts will be deleted, and depending on the seriousness of the accusation, the offending user will be banned for a period of time. This applies to people accusing photographers of faking their photos.

If you can't understand how a shot could have been composed, I would suggest you either email the photographer and ask how he or she took the photo, or ask the photography forum how they think it may have been taken. But don't just go straight off and accuse them of faking - no one appreciates that.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
nwa man
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 5:50 pm

Johan, this is the indignant attitude I speak of. What has this user contributed to this site? (Note he's grandfathered in on the username.) So far, very little.


Call me crazy, but I don't see the indignance in Timz's posts. Airliners.net users have spotted fake photos in the past which have gotten by the screeners. Admittedly, such cases are rare, but it does happen. Would you rather have a community of 5,000+ users who are unable to say anything about a photo except for "Nice sideshot", "Nice sideshot", and "Nice sideshot"? Keep the current system around. I don't think anyone is trying to offend the photographers... "Is this fake?" is usually just another way of saying "Wow, that's an amazing shot. How did you get that?" Perhaps the photographer called into question could respond to the thread instead of writing a long-winded, self-important diatribe/mandate to the administrator, to which you will probably never receive a reply.

With all due respect, Mr. Anthony, I think you've overestimated your importance to airliners.net. While your 203 photos are nice, they're a dime a dozen, and your $5 a month is just as easily replacable.

What is not so replacable is the knowledge which is spread in the forums. Timz's info is usually pretty solid. You can put a value on the $5 per month that you pay to post here. You can probably value the 400,000 or so sideshots of S80s landing at DFW as well. What's not so easily valued is the knowledge disseminated in the forums. Keep that in mind the next time you criticize someone for not "contributing" to the site.


Regards,

N-Dub

Create your own luck.
 
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JeffM
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 10:57 pm

With all due respect, Mr. Anthony, I think you've overestimated your importance to airliners.net. While your 203 photos are nice, they're a dime a dozen, and your $5 a month is just as easily replacable.

stuff like that is not needed...
 
wietse
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 11:15 pm

I want to join in here. I have not been acused of faking a pic yet, but one of my images has been questioned for why it is in the Database. Seemed that people didnt want it in.

It is not a good feeling to have your a great shot accepted, and consequently having it questioned in a public forum. I would much rather have that person to contact me, so we can work it out in private. Saves a lot of frustration on the photographers part.

1. If its in, its most likely genuine.
2. If you think it slipped through, email the screeners.
3. N-dub. Please show us your pictures before calling Williams EXCELLENT pictures a dime in a dozen. This way you have NO credibility.

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
2912n
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sat May 01, 2004 11:20 pm

There have been fakes that were spotted. But there have been many many more threads about BS accusations. If you think a photo is a fake deal with it by contacting the mod's/screeners etc. But don't come out and trash someone on a public forum.
I don't know crap about aircraft maintenance, scheduling, routing, baggage loading etc...so I don't go into those forums and tell people they are lying about their knowledge (ie...I don't call Timz or NWA man liars for their posts in civil avn or tech ops. ) It gets tiring to see people who don't shoot photos and don't understand how a photo is taken come over here and shoot their mouth off. It is insulting.

In the long run take away the photographers, which also means the photos, and anet becomes just another chat board.
 
ckw
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sun May 02, 2004 12:50 am

I would of course never condone anyone calling other photographer's work "fake" unless they have damn good evidence.

However, I have to say that I think the photo forum generally does a good job of handling these situations - 9 times out of 10, the accusation of fakery usually results in a number of respected photographers jumping to the victim's defence (usually promoting a number of his/her other shots in the process).

Net result - no one who matters actually ends up thinking photographer is a fraud, photographer gets loads of hits on the pic in question, and perhaps a few others to boot. Invariably, the "victim" turns out to be the accusor, who normally ends up looking like a total prat.

But if people really do find it offensive, I'll respect their feelings. For myself, the one time I was accused of fakery, I was delighted - I'd pulled off a shot that someone else thought was impossible  Smile

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
ExitRow
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sun May 02, 2004 2:26 am

With all due respect, Mr. Anthony, I think you've overestimated your importance to airliners.net. While your 203 photos are nice, they're a dime a dozen, and your $5 a month is just as easily replacable.

Thanks "N-Dub." Or Sam. Or whatever your name is since you choose to remain anonymous and hide safely behind your computer. I would love to see your qualifications for such a critique. Are you a photojournalist? A newsdesk photo editor? Art Director? At 16-20 years old, holding that kind of experience would make you a prodigy! Thanks so much for calling my work "nice." I am glad I don't care. But thanks for the empty "With all due respect" part.

Call me crazy, but I don't see the indignance in Timz's posts.

Dude, look at them again. If you can't see he's being a smart-ass, you're either letting your friendship get in the way or you're a bigger smart-ass than he is.

I have contributed to this web site in ways you don't know, because it is behind the scenes. Johan knows. And I know. And you don't know much of anything by comparison. I think Tony summed it up perfectly with "...For some punk to just shoot off their mouth with nothing to back it up...."

Perhaps the photographer called into question could respond to the thread

Perhaps the photographer is not a member and has no forum username, Einstein. Or perhaps, in professional circles, photographers don't have to defend themselves repeatedly from dolts who don't understand basic, Photo 101 depth-of-field, but choose to run the mouth anyway.

instead of writing a long-winded, self-important diatribe/mandate to the administrator, to which you will probably never receive a reply.

It may not be important to you, but it IS important to other photographers here, as illustrated by other posts in this thread. Self-important diatribe/mandate? I wrote a request in a formal manner. Period. That's how things get done in the real world. It's called "growing up."

Colin's points of self-regulation and -defense are well taken, but I stand by what I said before about the forums being archived permanently on the internet. There's just no need for that kind of unfounded accusation to stand so I feel it's in the best interest of the photographer to have them deleted permanently, immediately.

I am glad to see the Admin and Forum Mods have chosen to do the right thing.

Have a nice day.

william

 
nwa man
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sun May 02, 2004 4:36 am

Okay, I'll back off a little bit. Sorry if I offended anyone. That wasn't my intention.

First of all, ExitRow- I agree with your main point, when you say that false accusations should be deleted, not archived. Nobody needs anything like that on their record.

I'll take my "nice shots" line back too... those are some excellent pictures by you in the database. But my questioning of the quality of your photos was just like your questioning of Timz's "contributions to the site"... in this case, we've both got no idea what we're talking about  Big grin .

In the long run take away the photographers, which also means the photos, and anet becomes just another chat board.

True. In the short run though, this is the best aviation photography site hands down. Nothing even comes close. So the photographers aren't going to leave.

Ckw has the right idea:

9 times out of 10, the accusation of fakery usually results in a number of respected photographers jumping to the victim's defence (usually promoting a number of his/her other shots in the process).

ExitRow- take a look at the profiles of almost every other user who is not a photographer. You're not going to find a whole lot of full names, because really, for civ-av people, it's not necessary. What you will find for almost everyone is a "contact" link where you can get all the information (at least from me) if you so desire. The age criticism isn't necessary either. For what it's worth (probably nothing here), I'm 20. And I'm not an art director or a photojournalist, but then again, I didn't call any of your shots into question, did I?

I'm not friends with Timz. Honestly, I have no idea who he is. But he's a good source of info on the forums. If you think he's being "indignant" by just asking for a medium to question the extremely rare photo which might be falsified, go ahead. But I don't think allowing that privilege is going to end the world.

It's called growing up.

Good point. Growing up also includes being able to take criticism. Are you personally affected by this, and not in the photography brotherhood sense, but have you lost income because your shots have been called into question, or are you just looking for a cause du jour because it's Saturday and the special scheme AA 738 isn't coming into Sea-Tac today?

Again, I never meant to offend anyone with my reply on this post. But like Ckw said, the photo forum does a nice job of handling these issues. It's not that often that so-called "fake photos" are pointed out, but when someone questions how real a shot is, it usually leads to an informative discussion that ends all "is this fake?" inquiries from the user that brought it up. I don't see anything wrong with that.


Regards,

N-Dub



[Edited 2004-05-01 21:53:33]
Create your own luck.
 
ExitRow
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sun May 02, 2004 6:22 am

Again with the "offend" thing.

It's not that you offended me, you insulted me. And insulted others in the process. Look at the forums. I never go on the offensive, but if someone calls my work "a dime a dozen" you are sure as hell I am going to defend myself. Call me defensive if you wish, but I work too damn hard at my photography (not just aviation photography) to sit back and take it.

I can take criticism. I take it every day from clients. And I took for years in school. It's unfounded criticism that ticks me off. I have no patience for it. Especially in a public forum.

Are you personally affected by this, and not in the photography brotherhood sense, but have you lost income because your shots have been called into question

Yes. I have been personally affected before. Not for fakery claims, but similar basesless accusations. To be honest, I've only had one incident here. But that doesn't preclude me from wanting to help other shooters out before it affects me persoanlly. And my point by starting this thread was to have A.net make up it's mind once and for all. It amazes me how quickly rules are changed and mandates set down when it comes to forum spats over some of the DUMBEST stuff in Non-Av. Good God, anyone remember the Hepkat drama? They damn near called in the FBI to track IP addresses. And yet common sense rules to help photographers (and this site started as a photography site) seems low on priority lists sometimes. Like copyright infringement. (Whole 'nuther story.)

or are you just looking for a cause du jour because it's Saturday and the special scheme AA 738 isn't coming into Sea-Tac today?

See, there you go again. The swipe. You know what's funny and ironic? I am not a reg chaser. I am not a slide shooter. Nothing wrong with that type of aviation photography (despite your innuendo), it's just not for me. Look at my shots from the most popular on down. I try to shoot differently than everyone else. That's what makes this fun for me. I am a full-time photographer that happens to like aviation. So you're more off base than you know. (And was that swipe REALLY necessary?)

We've all discussed the "let it stay so we all learn from it" vs "delete it" issue. The problem is someone always gets dragged over the coals first. And that ain't right. All it takes is re-wording. Instead of "No way is this real" or "Is this fake?" it should be "How was this taken?" or "I would like to know how this was done." And how do you change the mindset? Moderator action. Right now if someone starts a thread with an ambiguous, short title, it's deleted for violating the rules. The user then thinks it through and restarts the thread with an appropriate, more descriptive title. How is that ANY different than this issue?

All I am asking is that if someone starts a thread to claim someone is cheating, or, as illustrated recently, "Real or fake?" It should be deleted with a message to the person saying "Please change your thread to a more constructive tone."

They restart the thread with the new title, everyone talks about how the shot was taken. No one is pissed off or insulted and we all live happily ever after.

Case closed. Why is that SO difficult to grasp? It would cost A.net nothing but the dividends would be huge.

I am not asking for a re-write of the US Constitution here.

william





 
aviopic
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sun May 02, 2004 6:22 am

When I read the thread I was thinking to post as well but I didn't due to lack of time but now I will.
Was it really so bad ?..... Personally I don't think so.
To me it was more like a question asked and as far as I know in our society it is free to ask questions.
Of course we all know the work of Sam and we all know he is one of the best and I have no questions about the image at all.
Still I don't feel the need to defend him or anybody else as I don't want to be defended by someone else.
First of all I am quite sure Sam is capable of defending him self if he feels the need to do so.
Secondly if someone goes public with his material he or she should able to handle good as well as bad reactions.
A while ago I received an email(between all the nice ones) that one of my photo's was fake because the control tower at 36L(AMS) was not the AMS control tower........ Should I defend myself ? No way...........
If someone thinks he knows the airport where I spend almost 24 hours a day for the last 24 years better then I do....... he he let them.
It makes me smile and doesn't make me feel to answer, I really don't care.
If someone thinks the A.net could go with out my work, he is probably right but I don't care.
It is my hobby which I enjoy a lot what ever other people might think of it.

Another thing is that each and every one of us is trying so hard to produce top notch work that for the untrained eye it is easily mistaken to be fake.
As we all know an RAW image from our Canon or Nikon sensor will not be accepted by A.net so we start playing around with Levels, Contrast, Color, Shadow/Highlight, Cropping, Cloning, ISO noise removing, Usm and all other kind of tools like the ones from Fred Miranda or NeatImage.
Does anybody still know where the line between real and fake is ?
Maybe to some extend we are all producing fake ?

Anyway in a huge database like A.net there will be fakes or at least manipulated images that should not be there.( I can show examples if needed)
The screeners are also humans as far as I know and there is no way they can stop every thing.

My last thought about the subject is that we should not stop threads like this.
Not talking about racism does not make the problem disappear, it will only make it worse.

Willem
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
nwa man
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sun May 02, 2004 7:09 am

To be fair, I took back the "dime a dozen" remark... which was only in response to your questioning of the contributions of those who don't put into the site via the most obvious ways (photos and cash). I respect your work, and the work of everyone else that makes this site what it is.

All I am asking is that if someone starts a thread to claim someone is cheating, or, as illustrated recently, "Real or fake?" It should be deleted with a message to the person saying "Please change your thread to a more constructive tone."

I can agree with that... perhaps the moderator could even change the title of the thread to something more constructive, rather than deleting it. This proposal is a lot different than the immediate thread deletion and banning for a second offense mentioned in the original post, and makes a lot of sense for both parties.

They restart the thread with the new title, everyone talks about how the shot was taken. No one is pissed off or insulted and we all live happily ever after.

Amen. That wasn't that hard to work out, was it?  Big grin


Regards,

N-Dub

Create your own luck.
 
ExitRow
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sun May 02, 2004 7:27 am

Amen. That wasn't that hard to work out, was it?

That wasn't the hard part N-Dub...

Making it happen is a whole different battle.  Big grin

Some just need to understand the amount of time, effort and yes, money that goes into a hobby/profession like photography. It's really not as easy as it looks. Sam's shot took a lot of all of the above to successfully pull off. It really sucks when after all that work and then the rigid screening process, people still piss on it. And that's tolerated. If it's tolerated, it gives the impression it's condoned. Slippery slope there.

I really don't mean any hard feelings. But sometimes ya gotta push back or ya get pushed over.

william


 
administrator
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Sun May 02, 2004 8:47 pm

When you publish something on the Internet, especially on such an active site as Airliners.net, people will have opinions on your work. Some opinions might be negative, some positive. Some opinions might come from people with expert knowledge, some from people with very poor knowledge.

We've had fake photos accepted into the database in the past and discussions held in the Aviation Photography forum proved they were fake and we therefore removed them. It's healthy that exceptional and unusual photographs are questioned and that constructive discussions on such subjects are held. Photographers that have their photos questioned should be honored that their photos are so unique and amazing that some actually cannot belive they are real. We had a lot of this going on when the first shots from St. Maarten was uploaded and the discussions held here eventually convinced everyone that there indeed such a place existed.

Anyway, questioning the authenticity of a photo should not be done lightly and a whole lot of evidence should have been complied before making the accusations. I did not get to read the thread linked as it is now removed but I assume lack of concrete evidence is what got it deleted.

Regards,
Johan
Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
 
ExitRow
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RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Mon May 03, 2004 1:14 am

Johan, thank you for responding.

I am not sure if anything has changed, but I will offer a link to people who feel calling an image "fake" is not a light allegation. It can affect a photographer.

While most here are hobbyists, some are not. (Garfinkel, Garcia, Liard to name a few.)

L.A. Times Photographer Fired Over Altered Image
http://www.poynter.org/content/content_view.asp?id=28082

'Bartletti recalls asking him, "How could you do this?"

Walski said: "I f---ed up, and now no one will touch me. I went from the front line for the greatest newspaper in the world, and now I have nothing. No cameras, no car, nothing."'


To be called a fake is no honor and even if someone is vindicated, the stigma can stick.

william



[Edited 2004-05-02 18:16:01]
 
2912n
Posts: 1978
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:12 pm

RE: Threads That Call FAKE. A Petition Of Sorts.

Mon May 03, 2004 2:14 am

It is one thing to ask about how a photo was done and to discuss the techniques used....but when people just come out and say, "IT IS A FAKE." That leaves a sour taste for many people who work hard on photos.

I would sumbit any of my photos for critique and discussion. But when some snot nose brat comes along and professes to have "a firend who is the best friend of a computer guy who really knows" and calls a photo a fake.

It is the internet with all the good and bad that go with it. But we owe it to ourselves to police this forum and keep things cordial.

Tony

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