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cathay112
Topic Author
Posts: 257
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Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:59 pm

With the new queue system working in date order I'm sure we all agree it was a welcome change to the screening system. Why is it then that shots uploaded 10/7 of nothing new or nothing rare all of a sudden end up in the database? The person in question just happens to be a screener as well.


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Photo © Glenn Stewart
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Photo © Glenn Stewart



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Photo © Glenn Stewart



I personally don't care how long it takes to screen my photos and don't have a care in the world if it takes a week. But when those who help decide the rules break the rules I believe we atleast deserve an explanation.

Do you agree that we are owed an explanation by the person who screened the shots and the screener who uploaded the shots as to how this could have happened?

It is not fair on the 1187 photographers in the queue and shows blatant disrespect for those photographers who sit patiently in the queue awaiting their photos fate.

A comment from Johan would also be appreciated on this matter.

C'mon, keep it fair.
 
pepef
Posts: 412
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:14 pm

Cathay 112, how exactly did we figure out they were uploaded on the 10th of July?  Confused

-Peter F-
 
cathay112
Topic Author
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:22 pm

 
Dehowie
Posts: 1072
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:38 pm

Bit of a pity to see that those who are supposed to be setting the example and doing the right thing have in this case failed to do so.
Obviously if true then at least 3 people had a part.
Bit disapointing really.
Darren
2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
jon01
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2001 3:25 pm

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:44 pm

I've noticed this recently after the 'new' queue system was introduced.

Normal pictures from non screeners have also appeared about a day after they have been taken, when there must have been thousands ahead of it.

Do screeners pick out shots from the queue at random whatever the queue date?

What's the point of the queue if it is abused??


Jon
 
qantas744
Posts: 1658
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:04 pm

Worse still that this topic has moved out of the photography forum to a place where most photographers wont see it.

Glenn has been in Europe for some time and only returned to Australia on July 10th (yesterday).



Matt
you can't buy time but you can sell your soul and the closest thing to heaven is to rock'n'roll
 
glennstewart
Posts: 952
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:24 pm

Hi All,

I've just woken up (still jet lag affected)...
I asked for no favours with regards to these 3 shots. I expected to be in the queue as per everyone else. I'm just as shocked to see these accepted as everyone else.

So you assuming corrupt behaviour. It's just luck - honestly!
These acceptions come down to luck and maybe acceptable quality.

I expect a thread like this from Craig...
But Darren and Matt. Why do you jump on the band wagon without thought?

I've screened shots from all three of you in a way that would have your shots accepted early in the past. (Conditions for such are perfect shots and high queue length if not also rare).

But what's good for you shouldn't be considered good for me right?
Next time your shots get added quickly, should I start a forum thread?
Or will you put it down to luck as I have tonight?


Regards,

Glenn

[Edited 2004-07-11 12:30:05]
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
cathay112
Topic Author
Posts: 257
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:27 pm

What is going on? Almost too suspicious to comment on but all my photos in the queue including 4 uploaded in the last 2hrs have been accepted. I'm sorry but it's a little more than coincidence that this has happened and again it is not fair to others.

Something is going on and it needs to be resolved.

Would the person who accepted my photos be brave enough to come out and say so in public and explain why I was given preferential treatment which is not something I expect at all.

I sense something isn't quite right, and yes I am complaining that my photos were given preferential treatment - let that be on the record.

 
cathay112
Topic Author
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:38 pm

Almost immediately before mine the screener gets another two shots accepted! Coincidence or evidence removal.


View Large View Medium

Photo © Glenn Stewart
View Large View Medium

Photo © Glenn Stewart



Doing a little housekeeping to hide the evidence are we?

I think we'd all like an explanation as to why the queue is no longer a queue but a "free for all" for those screeners not content to screen by the rules. I applaud those who are abiding by the rules, those who are screening correctly and those who are self screening before uploading.

To provide some fact to my argument, at 1835 local time this was a screenshot of the screeners queue stats.... Interesting to note the screeners shots were the only two in screening isn't it? Also note the number of photos waiting in the queue for their turn at being screened.

http://www.rwy34.com/craig/queuestatsat183511-7-04.JPG

Please post your opinions here, I would like to see those responsible either own up or be caught and dismissed for being the cheats they are.

Also Glenn, what makes you say this "I expect a thread like this from Craig..."



[Edited 2004-07-11 12:43:53]
 
IL76
Posts: 2238
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:43 am

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:26 pm

I'd really like to know what happened here... Who screened Glenn's shots, and why? They were only due for screening in a couple of days.
I know, we're all people, these things happen. Lets face it: Who hasn't had a friend do you a favour because of his 'connections'? It's just done so obviously that this could get nasty...
Nothing against Glenn, he obviously didn't screen his own shots. But I don't want to call this 'luck' either... The only way photo's get screened with priority is after an email to the screeners about the fact that these are very newsworthy shots. Glenn says he didn't send an email, so something else has happened...
An explanation would be very nice.
Eduard
 
9A-CRO
Editor
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:26 pm

and when I ask for priority screen for airshow nothing happens,
and for exactly same day 10th July
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward...
 
wietse
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:39 pm

9A-CRO:

Airshows are not newsworthy and therefore do not warrant priority screening.
Wietse de Graaf
 
qantas744
Posts: 1658
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:58 pm

G'day Glenn,

Perhaps I have misunderstood the screening process-I was of the opinion that pictures were dealt with on a day by day basis with earliest dates being screened first.

Here are the current stats:

2004-07-01: 1 photos 1 photos left for Johan
2004-07-02: 2 photos 2 photos left for Johan
2004-07-03: 1 photos 1 photos currently in screening
2004-07-04: 2 photos 2 photos left for Johan
2004-07-05: 26 photos 1 photos left for Johan 25 photos currently in screening
2004-07-06: 646 photos 281 photos not screened yet 365 photos currently in screening
2004-07-07: 1586 photos 1583 photos not screened yet 3 photos currently in screening
2004-07-08: 1669 photos 1659 photos not screened yet 10 photos currently in screening
2004-07-09: 1571 photos 1571 photos not screened yet
2004-07-10: 1605 photos 1605 photos not screened yet
2004-07-11: 902 photos 902 photos not screened yet


The following are your uploads: Photos marked "left for Johan" will take longer to screen.

2004-07-06: 3 photos 3 photos not screened yet
2004-07-11: 1 photos 1 photos not screened yet


So my pics that were uploaded on Tuesday are as yet unscreened while other pictures uploaded much later have been screened and added, it doesn't matter how long it takes to get my shots screened but I would hope that we are all being treated equally.

The new queue system is a vast improvement and the new stats page is great but it cretainly doesn't seem right that pics from July 10th have been screened while 5800 pictures uploaded earlier have not been screened.


Matt
you can't buy time but you can sell your soul and the closest thing to heaven is to rock'n'roll
 
melflyer
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:01 pm

Worse still that this topic has moved out of the photography forum to a place where most photographers wont see it.

It was moved because this is a subject relating to the way the site is run, thus belongs in "Site Related".

Cheers
 
glennstewart
Posts: 952
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:15 pm

The only way my shots could be added so quickly is if a screener was screening shots added on the day I added them. There are valid reasons for a screener to do so, but I suspect a screener or two was curious and simply added them.

I call this luck because I didn't want it, didn't need it... it just happened.

Being a screener, I've now just been made an example by Craig. I say that this is typical of Craig because noting many threads before, Craig makes a mountain out of many a mole hill.

If I weren't a screener, this wouldn't have been noted so quickly by Craig.

--

The big deal here is that my shots were accepted before others waiting in the queue. This happens when one of the below is true

1. Shot is rare
2. Shot is new reg
3. Photographer sends email to screeners asking for priority screening
4. Shot is of high quality and queue is above 5,000

The latter is rare, but is the case with my shots according to other screeners
(I cannot screen my own shots)

--

To be fair, I've counted 67 shots of Craig Murray's this year alone that have had exactly the same treatment as the 5 shots of mine.

Did screeners "cheat" 67 times for you Craig?

Maybe I should create a post about all 67 of Craig's.....
Then again, I don't create posts like this that make a mockery of the process we continually try to improve.

Regards,

Glenn
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
qantas744
Posts: 1658
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:33 pm

But why are screeners even looking at shots from yesterday when pictures from days ago are still waiting to be looked at?

I am not casting you as the guilty party Glenn but you are in a better position than most of us to say things to the people that matter-priority screening for newsworthy items but nothing else seems pretty fair to me.

But that of course is just the opinion of one uploader Smile/happy/getting dizzy (and not a very frequent one at that)



Matt
you can't buy time but you can sell your soul and the closest thing to heaven is to rock'n'roll
 
IL76
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:47 pm

4. Shot is of high quality and queue is above 5,000

Is this rule still valid in the new queue system? Isn't this a relic from the old system? Because to see if the queue contains a high quality shot, you need to screen the whole queue (unless a screener has been tipped off).
I agree with Matt: Why would a screener start screening the 10-07-2004 queue for high quality shots when 07, 08 and 09 have not even been touched yet? It defies the whole reason for changing to today's queue system.
Eduard
 
Dehowie
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:17 pm

G'day Glenn
Hope you had a great trip.
I am not bandwagon jumping at all.
I simply stated thats I am dissappointed in what clearly looks like favoritism to many people who look in from the outside.
Obviously this has nothing to do with you at all but more to do with the screening process and obviously someone liked your 3 photo's enough to direct upload them.
I think you have to understand that when you are in the position you are in you MUST be seen to be doing everything correctly.
You will always be scruitinised more closely than everyone else but thats the price of fame!!
The question many will have is why are your 3 photo's up on the site within 24hrs of upload while many others(of equal quality) are bogged down in the massive queue for 5-7 days.
Right or wrong it looks dodgy and that is what gets people going.
Screening is never an easy job but i would have thought that if i was doing it i would try to avoid this situation by making sure that my fellow screeners have to deal with the same wait as everyone else,regardless of quality simply to avoid this very situation.
Otherwise you open yourself up to this exact type of criticism which in this case has nothing to do with you.
I hope something comes of this from Matt's post and that is "Why are screeners screening shots uploaded yesterday when there is still stuff which is days old waiting to be screened?"
I'm looking forward to seeing some more of your shots from Europe and i hope
you get them up soon.
Darren
2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
beechcraft
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:24 pm

Hi all,
I agree, it seems weird to see that some photos are screened early, although they are further back in the Q.
But as Glenn pointed out, there can be some reasons for that.
So some photos are accepted faster. Some screeners photos. Oh my, there must be a giant conspiracy going on at airliners.net!  Yeah sure
And even if it should be the fact that a screener came across Glenn´s photos
and screened them right away (i don´t know if it´s technically possible, though), so what? After all, this is a more or less private website, uploading is free of charge and the whole screening team is doing the work free of charge.
And i guess offfending them doesn´t really keep their motivation up. Come on, they´re just people too.
And maybe some people are taking all this a little bit too serious. Do lifes depend on it?

That´s it for todays prayer  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I hope this issue will be solved in an appropriate manner,

best regards,
and thank you for not flaming me

Denis
That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
 
Skymonster
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:29 pm

Oh for God's sake guys - grow up. Its human nature for friends to help each other out occasionally - you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. I know someone who works for a certain airline - that's why I usually get an upgrade to business class and you end up sitting down the back. I know someone at one particular airport - that's why I get ramp pics when you're scratching around the fence line. In all such cases, it hardly makes a difference as long as it doesn't become endemic - unless, of course, you're the sort that gets all bent out of shape and jeallous of people who have contacts and use them occasionally. Glenn didn't ask for priority screening in this case, but he got it - and good luck to him! I didn't screen Glenn's pictures, but I would feel no guilt, and no compulsion whatsoever to admit to it or appologise had I done so - he deserves it for all the effort he invests in this website. Live with the fact that in the real world out there many individuals use contacts to further their own interests from time to time, so go out and develop your own contacts rather than sit there whinging about how unjust you think life is.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
glennstewart
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:32 pm

Very valid points.

I'm only getting used to the new queue system as it was implemented while I was away.

Congrats to those who implemented it. Looking at it, I thought it would help to eliminate these problems. But then again, it has highlighted the fact that the queue was jumped.

I was screening 6th July shots last night, so I assumed that in four days my 10th July shots would be looked at.

But in the normal course of screening, I had to screen a few priority requests. Sure enough through toe course of normal screening, I was able to view shots uploaded 11th July let alone, 10th July. Some of these were newsworthy, some rare - I accepted them.

My shots weren't newsworthy or rare. Maybe they could have waited. But they were accepted. What's done is done, and maybe this will lead to a screener discussion to determine how this can be prevented in future.

Glenn
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
cicadajet
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:57 am

Mel - While you are factually correct..

Regarding moving the topic to Site Related --

Screener Answer Time/Bad Double - Do we have to go through this again?/Top of Yesterday? Whats Wrong?/Anyone having upload problem?/Uploading problem were *not* transferred to Site Related.

Further - when Admin wishes to address photographers, (regarding *Site Related* issues), it is (often..maybe sometimes both?) in the Photography forum -
New Photo Stats online
New Upload Photo queue
New on Airliners.net
Appeal Page Updated

These topics appear in the Photography section (for good reason).
 
United4everDEN
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:02 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Torin Wilson



Taken July 11
Added July 11

Amazing  Pissed
 
ChrisZRH
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:43 am

first weeks i thought positive about the new queue procedure, but now! well it's not possible anymore to have your pics taken and accepted the same day! i really enjoyed that but now....
Christian Galliker - AirTeamImages
 
Sukhoi
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:46 am

 Yawn and again  Yawn and again  Yawn
 
mirage
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:47 am

What's the point of us giving our suggestions to improve the system if at the same time is publicly assumed that there are "contacts" behind the curtain  Confused

Luis
 
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Kereru
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:26 am

Cathay112,

I added your photos and second screened and direct added Glenn's last two as they were the next ones in my HQ queue.(They had been screened once already). I did not add Glenn's 3 earlier contributions that was another screener. I guess I did that Craig to get a reaction and thanks you did that well.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

All,

They are just photos and all of them will either be added or rejected within the next week or so, so why all the fuss? The number that are "queue jumped" for whatever reason is a very small percentage of the total so again what is the fuss?

Some of you might be interested in reading an email of appreciation I recently got from none other than Cathay112 for a direct add, legitimately I might add, for the new Jetstar color scheme.

Have just uploaded some pics of the very first Jetstar aircraft caught
after the airlines launch here in Sydney. I trust they are of interest.

Cheers n Whiskey!
Craigo

Craig,

Airline corrected and added to DB with banner.

Cheers the whisky would be great.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards,
Colin
Member A.net Screening Team

How did you know I'd been already drinking whiskey? And whiskey it is if you ever make it over here!

Take care and keep up the bloody great work!

CM


Lets all just enjoy what is displayed on A.net and not get in a twist over trivial things like this? I totally agree with Andy's post and now lets move on.
Now back to screening.

Cheers
Colin
Good things take Time.
 
glennstewart
Posts: 952
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:48 am

United4everDEN,

The show you show here (alonside your angry face) is of VH-VQK.
It was added instantly due to fact we received emails from photographers requesting priority.

This is a new livery applied to only the second 717-200 in the ex-Qantas Link fleet.

This instant addition is considered completely valid, and if you added a similar type of shot and requested priority, you would have got it.

Likewise I provided the very author of this post with the same priority on numerous occasions. Actually I've provided the author of this post (and many contributors of this post) with the same priority for lesser shots. I've even gone out of my way to provide banners.
Go figure!


Regards,

Glenn
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
cathay112
Topic Author
Posts: 257
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:06 am

Colin, interesting you mention a legitimate e-mail from me regarding two uploaded images of a brand new airline which was done in accordance with all guidelines. I'm not sure why you needed to include this in your post?

The shots I am referring to, both mine and Glenn's have received unwarranted favouritism ahead of 1100+ other photographers and it simply isn't fair.

Glenn it interests me that you admit to adding shots of lessor priority ahead of others - this is exactly the thing being argued in this thread which is what nearly everyone seems to be missing. And I challenge you to provide some facts to your claims as I have done - show us the shots uploaded with priority, tell us how many shots were in the queue ahead of me at the time and tell us if I requested priority uploading or not? If you can present your facts as I have done with relation to your shots I will happily answer and concerns raised. Something that doesn't seem to be coming from within the airliners.net camp.

As yet there is no explanation for why my shots were instant added, was it to prove a point Colin? Nor is there an answer as to why screeners would be looking for photos outside the new screening system which works in date uploaded order.

Rather than avoid the issue - let's address it.

Present me with facts of accusations against me and I'm more than happy to answer honestly the allegations that have been made. I have nothing to hide!
 
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Kereru
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:32 am

Cathay112,

I have already given you my answer to:

As yet there is no explanation for why my shots were instant added

I did that Craig to get a reaction and thanks you did that well.

Nor is there an answer as to why screeners would be looking for photos outside the new screening system which works in date uploaded order.

Haven't you read Andy's post yet??

And again I repeat:

They are just photos and all of them will either be added or rejected within the next week or so, so why all the fuss? The number that are "queue jumped" for whatever reason is a VERY SMALL percentage of the total so again what is the fuss?

Have another whisky Craig and relax mate.

Cheers,
Colin
Good things take Time.
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:22 am

Hmmm

To summarize this thread: The photographers and the screeners are now completely at odds with each other, with the photographers pointing fingers and throwing out wild accusations, while the screeners are confirming those accusations, but trying (very weak, if I might say) to validate them.

So far:

Photographers 1, Screeners 0. Big grin

Seriously calm down boys, I want my pics accepted too, but man some of you need to go out and get laid more often!

Eric
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
United4everDEN
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:36 pm

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:39 pm

The number that are "queue jumped" for whatever reason is a VERY SMALL percentage of the total so again what is the fuss?

I feel that is a false statement, so I have gathered some evidence. I have uploaded two photos on the 7th. Since those are not screened yet (see for yourself, my email is [email protected]) the photos in the DB taken on the 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th are the ones that queue jumped. I counted and came up with 36 including one 'future photo' that was taken on the 13th
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Europix



Now I quote the upload page 'On average, one out of four photos uploaded is accepted'

36*4 is 144, right? So 144 photos jumped ahead of 8000 photos which is almost 2 percent, or one out of every fifty. Pretty high if you ask me, but then again, it is all a matter of opinion.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:08 pm

And after Ryan's statement I believe it is now

Photographers 2, Screeners 0 Big grin

sorry, I have to keep score with this one.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
EGBB
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2000 3:21 am

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:51 pm

Sorry to disagree with you all but in my opinion all screeners images SHOULD be given priority over other photographers - Look what they all do for the rest of us for no reward

Imagine if they never screened our pictures for us and it was all down to Johan

Some of you people really make me sick!

Derek Pedley

 
glennstewart
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 9:11 am

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:16 pm

Complaints from photographers really make me just want to go home and spend four hours trying to reduce the queue.
Yeah right....


Screening is a very long process. To screen a single shot can take between 10 seconds to a minute, and in some cases (i.e. incorrect information, possible double), longer.

If the average shot takes 30 seconds.
100 shots takes 50 minutes
1,000 shots takes over 8 hours

This has to be multiplied by 3-4 given that each and every shot has to be viewed 3+ times to be accepted.

Very long time to screen: bad information + high quality or rare
Long time to screen: borderline shot with varying screener opinions
(more than 3 screeners often view a borderline shot to give the photographer the greatest amount of chance to get their shot accepted)
Normal time to screen: standard shot (expected quality)
Shortest time to screen: extremely high quality and/or extermely rare

Craig, I admit to "adding shots of lessor priority ahead of others" with one or two screeners instead of three. These are always shots of extremely high quality that as Colin put it, "will be accepted anyway".
Why waste both screener time and lengthen the queue?

Mind you, the queue tends to be lengthend mainly by the other end of the scale. There are 1000's of photographers out there who:

* Upload many doubles
* Upload extremely poor quality shots
* Upload with incorrect information

Incorrect information annoys me the most. If the shot is well worth adding (instead of rejecting bad info) I often go off and search for specific registrations, company names, correct USAF registrations, correct airport names etc.
The worst case has been a shot where to get information correct I've had to spend 20+ minutes looking up information, then emailing the photographer to at least explain to them what was wrong and how they could have corrected it in the first place (hopefully to ensure that screener time isn't wasted in the future).

Tonight it looks like I'll have to put in another 4-5 hours of screening shots to bring this queue down. I just hope that the majority of photographers appreciate the time we put in.

Regards,

Glenn
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
ckw
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:26 pm

Those of you who have never screened simply have no idea how tedious it can be. Taking things in strict order could be a quick route to brain death - when I screened, after struggling through dozens of crap to so-so images, I would reward myself by seeking out a few pics from photographers who I could count on to produce interesting material. Thus refreshed, back to the dross.

Now I'm not saying any of the current screeners do this, but I'm certain each has their own way of making the job more tolerable, so be careful what you ask for - you might just get it. If screeners are forced to work in a very regimented fashion, I can promise you that the rate of additions overall will fall rapidly.

If they skip around a bit to help a friend, relieve the bordom etc., or avoid screening pics they don't like etc. the number of pics added overall will be much higher.

What you must understand is that the only route to keeping the queue down is having happy screeners. If the price of keeping them happy is a few pics getting jumped ahead, so what - the net result is that everyone's pics progress through the queue a bit faster.

Cheers,

Colin

Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
cathay112
Topic Author
Posts: 257
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 3:58 pm

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:11 pm

Now we are seeing some good, constructive, honest and more open replies to this thread which is precisely what I was hoping to achieve by posting it.

Perhaps in addition to this the site needs to bring in more strict policies regarding queue size to make things fairer and more equitable to everyone.

* A queue limit of 10 photos at any one time which will encourage people to be far more selective

* One warning then instant banning of serial garbage uploaders, no if's and no but's - ban them

Anyone who thinks the screeners don't do a good job is kidding themselves, I wouldn't do it for quids! We understand how much time and effort you put in screening the photos - what you need to understand is how it looks to an outsider when this sort of thing happens. When a queue system is meant to be in place the punters expect it to be fair. I am sure you understand where I'm coming from?

On my support for a limit of 10 photos per photographer, I challenge anyone to explain why this number is too small? Everything will happen quicker and I'm sure alot more people will be happy - in particular those who currently have 8000+ images waiting for them to look at when in reality it should be down around the 1000 mark at any one time.
 
EGBB
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2000 3:21 am

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:54 pm

Craig,

You started this thread with the sole intention of trying to make yourself look clever while at the same time trying to make Glenn Stewart and the other screeners out as cheats period!

I repeat what I said in my previous post in that screeners should have priority screening and indeed be paid for doing this job by Johan and be able to pick a few images out to make their job more enjoyable as I can imagine what a tedious bore screening must be for them at times.

If, in return, all a screener gets out of doing the screening job is priority screening of his own work then who the hell are you or anyone else to complain?

Derek Pedley



 
fireguy274
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:15 am

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:33 pm

Screeners screen pictures for nothing I think they should have the right to screen each others pictures ahead of ours. Who cares they all get screened eventually. I think its a small incentive for screeners.....Artie
 
Sydneybuses
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 5:25 pm

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:39 pm

Craig did not start this thread to make himself look good or make Glenn look like a cheat. He was just stating the facts and has valid points.

I am good friends with both, Craig and Glenn (at least I hope I am  Smile/happy/getting dizzy), but the truth is the truth. Craig saw what happened and posted it. I agree - rules are rules and everyone should follow them.

We all know the queue is large and it is tedious to screen etc ... but that is not what the thread is about.

Norbert
 
administrator
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon May 17, 1999 5:11 am

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:40 pm

Hello all,

First, moving this thread to Site Related was fully within the rules the forum moderators are working with but as mentioned, topics only of interest to photographers are usually posted in Aviation Photography even though they are site related. We'll let it stay here but I'll discuss it with the moderators for similar situations in the future.

Regarding the priority screening, there are many reasons to why photos might be added with priority but I will look into this matter. I have no reason to believe any screening rules have been broken. My main priority right now is to find ways to get the queue down to lower levels.

Oh and let's try to be a bit supportive. The screeners have a bit of a hard time right now with the long queue and the constant critique received via email and on this forum. I'm sure a few encouraging words wouldn't hurt.

Thanks,
Johan
Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
 
cathay112
Topic Author
Posts: 257
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 3:58 pm

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:40 pm

Derek there is a reason I didn't reply to your e-mail regarding joining Airteamimages - why would I want someone like you "managing" my work?

Johan, your post and attention to this matter is appreciated and I hope that again a fairer system can be found.

I don't believe anyone deserves special attention, be it me, a screener or anyone. Let all photographers be equal, banish those who upload rubbish consistently and have no idea how to self screen and lower the upload limit to 5 or 10 shots.

Here's another idea, if a screener firmly believes an uploader is not self screening perhaps a severe upload restriction of a maximum 5 shots could be imposed? When it comes to reducing the size of the queue to make it fairer and faster for all you won't find any arguments at this end!

Thanks again Johan for your promise to look into this.

[Edited 2004-07-12 13:47:58]
 
EGBB
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2000 3:21 am

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:24 pm

Derek there is a reason I didn't reply to your e-mail regarding joining Airteamimages - why would I want someone like you "managing" my work

Craig, perhaps you were scared off by the word 'Team' in AirTeamImages but should we ever decide to rename the site to AirSelfImages we know where to come!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Derek Pedley
 
Granite
Posts: 5029
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:07 pm

Hi all

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Well I am quite happy for Derek to 'manage' my work.
That Team order last week was a biggie, and my 12 or so images to make up part of it was with no promotion on my part.

All I did was take the images and leave the rest to others.

Oooops...off topic now.

Cheers

Gary
 
dustyslides
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:28 pm

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:02 am

Having worked in many different companies for more than half a century prior to retirement, I found most offer employees a benefit, perk or discount on the goods and services they produce.

I think it reasonable, then, that as compensation for their volunteer service in a demanding position, the screeners be given "priority handling" on shots they submit. This should be written into the rules governing acceptance, so we all understand how it works, and that it will occur.

I also think the "you scratch my back, and vice versa" opinion espoused in a previous post undermines the perceived ethics and integrity of this site, and fans the flames of discontent. The "real world" may work that way at times--but does that make it right?

Although not a member until now, I have monitored these forums often enough to observe that much of the conflict and frustration vented here has to do with perceived inconsistency in application and enforcement of the rules and standards. Each submission should be judged in turn, on it's merit, and with the least prejudicial influence as is humanly possible. Equal effort should be made by photographers to pay attention to screeners suggestions to improve the quality and reduce the duplication of our uploads, which in turn would speed screening and acceptance. We all win!

It's a hobby, albeit one we take seriously, and we're all in it together, so
let's have fun.
C-45G C-47E TC-54D KC-97G C-119 C-124C B-17G B-24J RB-36H AD-5N
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:02 am

Gary, I know you in this forum since a long time ago, and, as usual, going off topic to show off your photo sells. It seems you're the only one selling photos and never loose a chance to show off how happy you are about that. Others do the same or better than you but prefer to keep it low profile.  Wow!

Luis
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:04 am

"I also think the "you scratch my back, and vice versa" opinion espoused in a previous post undermines the perceived ethics and integrity of this site, and fans the flames of discontent. The "real world" may work that way at times--but does that make it right?"

EXACTLY my point when I wrote my first message in this topic, thanks.

Luis
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9175
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RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:24 am

is it it bad if it burns when I urinate?
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:49 am

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:48 am

depends on wether or not you are standing on your head when you are urinating
Wietse de Graaf
 
cicadajet
Posts: 816
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2000 1:54 am

RE: Queue Jumping - Screener Caught

Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:12 am

It is good to see this thread begin to turn (mostly) productive.

A couple of issues I would like to touch upon:
1> "Favoritism"
2> Screener Compensation & Holding the site hostage
3> Craig Murray
______________________________________________________________
1> Favortism

Not long ago the Admin addressed exactly the same old whiney charges of favoritism by writing:

<< It is of outmost importance to the reputation of Airliners.net that the screening is fair and that all photographers are treated equally. >>

But to temper that statement with even the hint of a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch your back" credo might be a bit of rough patch?  Smile

Now I certainly do not think a screener jumping around in the queue should be criminalized for crying out loud.

I really do see Colin Work's point. Sifting through hundreds or thousands of routine images must be exceedingly tedious. No doubt if one is going to sit down for a large screening, it might be neccesary to skim ahead to something a bit more rewarding (or less dreadful) to screen? But with the queue at 8000 images, I am not sure jumping thousands of them at a time (for a mate) is doing much more than leaving the job/mess to another screener and pissing off the faithful.

Also.. while no real harm is done in isolation for providing favors, there may be unpleasant consequences. There are now about 30 screeners. If every screener has just 2 mates, (and possibly other business associates), we're already up to 60+ folks that might need a favor from time to time. It is hard to describe that situation as anything other than a potential free-for-all. Is this really the *key* missing perk from a thankless job? To fast-track friends' shots? If it is, well then so be it I suppose to keep the screeners reasonably happy and the site moving. But with a new teenager buying a DSLR every week and being indoctrinated into A.net won't that just lead to a never-ending cycle of ill will?

Once the Admin provided a modicum of transparency to the screening process it is entirely predictable that people get upset at seeing (some of) their suspicions validated. The fact that some of the uploaders may selfishly not have shred of thankfulness in them to the screeners does not change that.

It certainly does not calm folks down to one week issue blanket denials of favoritism or impropriety, with attendant outrage & offense at such charges, and the next week chastise people for being too naive to know the ways of the world, and that of course the rules are broken.

2> Screener Compensation & Holding the Site Hostage

I really find it disturbing to see the same few screeners’ post repeatedly in the Photography forum their discontent at adolescents or the adolescent minded flinging (anonymous?) abuses their way. These tend to be the elder statesmen of the screening crew and their input in the process is no doubt vital and I don't think anyone who spends a fair amount of time uploading to the site should take their frustration lightly. Whether these screeners are cranky or not, as uploaders these are the people we want to stay on the job and be reasonably happy with the work they do for all of us.

I think it needs to be taken seriously when they basically imply that they will hold the site itself hostage by going on strike from a "job" they once *volunteered* and were happy to perform. It seems to me, screeners are asking for something here. Some sort of help or compensation. Is it from Admin or the uploaders? Probably both I am thinking, and as I read these posts from time to time, and between the lines it appears more is behind the scenes and left unsaid. But I doubt much will be gained from the uploaders without harsher penalties or restrictions.

I am of course sympathetic to the idea of screeners having some sort of perk or compensation for their work. If that means adding their own images directly, then so be it. But again, (just my opinion) it is really problematic to have a license or permit for fast tracking buddies.

3> Craig Murray

I dislike seeing the screeners take abuse, but lets not belittle Craig Murray or obfiscate his point(s) - such that they are. If he had not posted his message, it is inevitable someone else would've done so in some similar circumstance.

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