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nworlnsbearcub
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 9:59 am

RE: Why No EU Flag?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:38 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 15):

....not yet.



Michael
Austin, TX
Long after the thrill of low price, lingers the bad taste of low quality..
 
ikramerica
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 98):
The EU is the only supranational organisation on the planet which actually has legislative, executive and judicative organs which are somewhat comparable to those of nation states.

Then explain the IOC?  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Klaus
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 101):
Then explain the IOC?

The IOC is not a supranational organisation, it is an international organisation which caters to a single specific interest. And its organs are nowhere near as comparable to those of a nation state as the organs of the EU are.

Nice try, however! Big grin
 
iwok
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting HeyMach (Reply 84):
As have I argued since I first joined, EU airlines proudly display the European flag why can't we?

I think its more of a "symbol" of loose cooperation than a real flag.

no constitution = not a country . no?  stirthepot 

I think I might have to change my flag to swedish as a sign of solidarity with our founder. It appears the new servers, are under powered, burndened with too much advertizing and still beset by critical glitches. I guess Johan's kitchen was a better location afterall for the servers.  Smile Its actually so bad now, I wound up getting an airwhiners.net logon.  duck 

iwok
 
aloges
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:36 am

Quoting Iwok (Reply 103):
no constitution = not a country . no?

You might want to tell the UK about that...  duck 
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
BCNGRO
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 99):
The EU is NOT a country

Scotland isn't, either.  Wink

If you mean a "nation", well there are many countries in the flag list which are not a nation by themselves. They are just part of a bigger nations.
At the bus station, buses stop. At the train station, trains stop. At my desk, I have a work station.
 
strasserb
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:05 am

Quoting StrasserB (Reply 12):
That's still too complicated for me.
I want my "Hessen" flag.

Hessen is a country.
cheerful

Now, where is my flag?
Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
 
atmx2000
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 20):
To be honest, I don't care about the flag issue - if somebody wants to use an EU flag, that's fine (I probably would). Same with Scotland, if people are happier that way, fine! But for somebody with a Scottish flag to say that the EU can't have its own flag because it isn't a sovereign state seems a bit ironic!



Quoting Klaus (Reply 98):
And the members of the EU are full-fledged nation states, not just regional provinces as in the case of Britain with its extra flags.



Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 80):
You're missing the point: the UK is one country, yet it has five flags representing it on this site. No other country has that privilege. If UK citizens have a choice of two flags, there's no reason whatever for EU citizens not to have that choice. And even less for anyone from the UK to object.



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 62):
Only geographical entities with an ISO country code should be allowed flags on a.net. Simple and obvious solution.What is the ISO code for Scotland, again ? Ermmmmm....



Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 73):
They have a (very crap, might i add) football team, a rugby team and they make their own laws. I would say they are a country, especially since legally Scotland (as well as the Northern Ireland and Wales) are considered constituent countries of the United Kingdom.

How about this: only geographic areas that can send a team to the Olympics, World Cup or other international sporting even can have a flag.

Honestly, the UK is actually a justified special case, as is mainland China and Hong Kong. Not to mention Puerto Rico.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 50):
Where is Scotland's foreign minister? Where are the Scottish defense forces? Where is Scotland's seat in the EU and UN?As long as these do not exist Scotland remains a province of the UK, governed in all important aspects from London, if you like it or not.



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 55):
Just accept the realities, that your status is not different from e.g. Bavaria or Texas (Texas got at least a National Guard) and don't pretend to be something else.

Scotland is not a province. Per wikipedia:
Scotland is a nation in northwest Europe and one of the four constituent countries of the United Kingdom.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 52):
Kirkie, you're overdoing it just slightly. Scotland is as much of a country as the 16 German "Länder" are, yet you never see anyone moan about the fact that we don't have our 16 flags to choose from here on a.net.

Germany is a unified republic composed of states. But if you can start having separate teams represent you in major international sporting events I would support separate flags.

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 42):
the EU will soon have a constitution

It will never have a constitution. It will have a "treaty" stuffed down its citizens throats after the unwieldy constitution was rejected by the citizenry of multiple countries.

Quoting Toast (Reply 66):
European identity is already strong on the Continent

I'm sure it as strong as that Belgian identity is. Hey do you know if the French are still complaining about Polish plumbers.

Quoting Toast (Reply 86):
All government agencies in EU countries fly both the national and European flag, similarly to state buildings in the US. European passports have the twelve stars on them. License plates, aircraft reg numbers (see HeyMach's post above), product labels (Made in E.U.) all sport the European flag.

That isn't a European flag.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
Toast
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 107):
How about this: only geographic areas that can send a team to the Olympics, World Cup or other international sporting even can have a flag.



Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 107):
if you can start having separate teams represent you in major international sporting events I would support separate flags.

What kind of a criterion is that?! Too bad for the Vatican I guess, and for the innumerable overseas territories that count as countries on a.net.

I sent a PM to the crew, they say a decision will be taken next month.

IMO a two-flag deal would be the ideal compromise. "USA" is pretty vague given the size of the country, I'm pretty sure many Americans would like to specify their state as well.

As has been said above, the unusual choice of "countries" made by a.net is based solely on TLD. If they want to be consistent, they'd have to add the EU, or change the criterion completely. Sporting events? Ridiculous.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 107):
It will never have a constitution. It will have a "treaty" stuffed down its citizens throats after the unwieldy constitution was rejected by the citizenry of multiple countries.



Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 107):
European identity is already strong on the Continent

I'm sure it as strong as that Belgian identity is.

Spoken like a true expert.  Yeah sure

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 107):
Hey do you know if the French are still complaining about Polish plumbers.

 Yeah sure
Shit Piss Fuck Cunt Cocksucker Motherfucker Tits
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:40 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 107):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 50):
Where is Scotland's foreign minister? Where are the Scottish defense forces? Where is Scotland's seat in the EU and UN?As long as these do not exist Scotland remains a province of the UK, governed in all important aspects from London, if you like it or not.



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 55):
Just accept the realities, that your status is not different from e.g. Bavaria or Texas (Texas got at least a National Guard) and don't pretend to be something else.

Scotland is not a province. Per wikipedia:
Scotland is a nation in northwest Europe and one of the four constituent countries of the United Kingdom.

It was a country with it's own external politics and government centuries ago, but today it has about the same powers as a province in Canada or a state in Germany (which up to the 19thcentury were BTW also souvereign kingdoms and duchies).

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
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LTU932
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting Toast (Reply 108):
Too bad for the Vatican I guess, and for the innumerable overseas territories that count as countries on a.net.

The Vatican, as well as San Marino and Monaco are technically sovereign states.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
gkirk
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 109):
It was a country

It still IS A COUNTRY.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
zak
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:17 am

i'd like to point out that yet again, arguments are being made against the eu solely on the basis of personal political agenda. there has been zero reason why such a feature would be contra productive for the webpage, which should be the thing that counts when dozens of people request it.
10=2
 
Tom12
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:48 pm

Quoting BCNGRO (Reply 105):
Quoting Gkirk (Reply 99):
The EU is NOT a country

Scotland isn't, either.

If you mean a "nation", well there are many countries in the flag list which are not a nation by themselves. They are just part of a bigger nations.

A nation is a type of Country.





If the place has a flag, eg the EU then why not make the flag available?


Anyway, the Scottish Flag looks better than the Union Jack, thats a good enough reason to make it available.  duck 

Tom
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JBo
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:51 pm

Quoting Iwok (Reply 103):
I think I might have to change my flag to swedish as a sign of solidarity with our founder.

I actually second that notion. The way DM has handled things, I think we could all change our flags to Sweden as the one show of solidarity/protest that wouldn't get anyone banned. Big grin

However, the potential server load on Sweden.gif might be enough to crash the site again.  duck 
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
BMED
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:33 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 15):
Nor is Scotland.

I think you will find it is
Living the jetset life! No better way to be
 
strasserb
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting Iwok (Reply 103):
I think I might have to change my flag to swedish as a sign of solidarity with our founder.

Done!
Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
 
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LTU932
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting Iwok (Reply 103):
I think I might have to change my flag to swedish as a sign of solidarity with our founder. It appears the new servers, are under powered, burndened with too much advertizing and still beset by critical glitches. I guess Johan's kitchen was a better location afterall for the servers.

Excellent idea. Done!
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
overlander
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:47 am

Recently, I posted a subject some members immediately re-acted too based on the flag of my proflle.

For me, the use of a flag is irrelevant.

I suggest we get rid of the flags completely.

All the best,

Overlander
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LAXspotter
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:21 am

Might as well get a flag for NAFTA, altho the EU is a much more integrated Union.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
iwok
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:05 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 119):
Might as well get a flag for NAFTA, altho the EU is a much more integrated Union.

 rotfl   rotfl  Now that would be a really fun flag!

Still, I think the EU is really a country afterall, despite my previous comment about the constitution etc.

I suggest we can all the individual EU state flags, and replace it with a the Imperial Flag of Europe of something like that  Smile muhahahahah ... just kidding.

Seriously. The US flag is the Stars and Stripes and the EU flag is the "Star Circle" or "Stars and Patch" ??? And.. when Turkey joins the EU will a crescent moon need to be added in the middle of the stars to wind up being called the "Moon and Stars"??

iwok

[Edited 2007-10-13 01:13:07]
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:42 pm

Quoting Toast (Reply 108):
I sent a PM to the crew, they say a decision will be taken next month.

WOW! I was wondering why the moderators were so silent on this matter. Can we start petitioning now?

Quoting Toast (Reply 108):
IMO a two-flag deal would be the ideal compromise.

Absolutely. No-one gets left out, and nobody need be offended. If you only want to fly one flag, so be it. Like I said in an earlier post, a lot of people have two identities now, and there must be a lot of members temporarily working abroad who'd like to indicate both their home and host countries.

And there are a lot of members who come from one country and live permanently in another. Two flags would solve their dilemma.

TO WHOEVER MAKES THE DECISION: AS AN EU CITIZEN I WOULD WELCOME THE OPPORTUNITY TO PLACE MY FLAG ALONGSIDE MY MEMBER NAME.

Braybuddy

[Edited 2007-10-13 10:07:48]
 
strandedinbgm
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:34 am

I want my freak flag!
It's 737s, 747s and 380s. Not 737's, 747's and 380's. Learn to use the apostrophe for crying out loud.
 
VC-10
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 121):
WOW! I was wondering why the moderators were so silent on this matter.

The moderators are silent because it has nothing to do with the moderators. All we do is monitor & regulate the posts
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:44 am

Quoting Toast (Reply 108):
IMO a two-flag deal would be the ideal compromise.

I think this Idea has merit. Don't some aircraft in Europe carry both the EU flag and the flag of their home nation?

Quoting Toast (Reply 108):
I'm pretty sure many Americans would like to specify their state as well.

Well, its not a burning desire of mine to also display the New Mexico flag, but I think the ability to do so would be nice.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
iwok
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:10 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 119):
Absolutely. No-one gets left out, and nobody need be offended. If you only want to fly one flag, so be it. Like I said in an earlier post, a lot of people have two identities now, and there must be a lot of members temporarily working abroad who'd like to indicate both their home and host countries.

I assume then that this two flag scenario will also apply to the US?

iwok
 
OHLHD
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:27 am

Wow this topic is still running. Big grin

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 117):
Excellent idea. Done!

Now I know. Big grin Out of solidarity!!! I will change it too despite.....we finns are not really sweds fans  duck  Big grin
 
strasserb
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:50 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 126):
Now I know. Big grin Out of solidarity!!! I will change it too despite.....we finns are not really sweds fans

Welcome as a new member of the group "SOS WTF" !

(Sign Of Solidarity With The Founder)

 bigthumbsup 
Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
 
OHLHD
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:38 am

Quoting StrasserB (Reply 125):
Welcome as a new member of the group "SOS WTF" !

Very good! Thanks a lot,Sir!  Smile

Time to start a SOS WTF thread in Non-Aviation.
 
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viaggiare
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:10 am

Talk about an exercise in futility. This whole issue was settled almost 74 years ago.

How many flags should be available to choose from on a.net? Only 193. That's one for each of the 192 sovereign states with general international recognition, as per the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States, all members of the United Nations, plus the Vatican City state (which enjoys general international recognition but not UN membership).

The European Union is a supranational organization, so no flag for them. The United Kingdom is an internationally recognised sovereign state, divided into four constituent countries (England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland), so only one flag for them, and that's the Union Jack (the national flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland).

And as for Taiwan, we've recently seen the light and embraced the One-China Principle, so no flag for them either.
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
zak
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 126):
Wow this topic is still running. Big grin

the eu flag is the NW DC-9 of site related  Wink
10=2
 
ba757
Posts: 2707
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:33 pm

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 129):
Union Jack

Union Flag, actually.
 
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viaggiare
Posts: 1443
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting BA757 (Reply 131):
Union Flag, actually.

Yup. Thanks for the correction. Union Flag is its actual name, aka Union Jack. Sorry about that.

By the way... not that anyone has signaled discomfort of any kind, but my post intended no offense to anyone. Whatever flags are up there to choose from is fine with me.

At any rate, Costa Rica will be sitting -for the third time now- on the same table with the five big guys at the UN Security Council as a non-permanent member for the next two years, so our peaceful mood is at an all-time high these days.

Although come to think of it, since we'll be helping police the planet we could perhaps pummel a few lawless bandits into submission.

Peace to all.
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:16 pm

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 123):
The moderators are silent because it has nothing to do with the moderators. All we do is monitor & regulate the posts

A comment on the matter in the forum, indicating that the matter was under consideration, would have been helpful. Toast had to PM a memer of the crew to get this information. Mods often explain rules, etc in the forums.
 
OHLHD
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting Zak (Reply 130):
the eu flag is the NW DC-9 of site related

 bigthumbsup 

So who will make a decision if there will be a EU-Flag or not?
 
traveler_7
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 134):
So who will make a decision if there will be a EU-Flag or not?

Taking in to account that in some observable future EU will have a president, it looks more and more like a country.
So even if EU flag would not appear in nearest future, there will be new and new arguments in favor of getting it  Wink
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:27 pm

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 129):
And as for Taiwan, we've recently seen the light and embraced the One-China Principle, so no flag for them either.

No doubt a political decision by the new Damned Media owners, who wish to grovel to mainland China in order to do business with them. There's a surprise. Not.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
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LTU932
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:05 pm

Quoting Zak (Reply 130):
the eu flag is the NW DC-9 of site related

Maybe now, but in the past, the NW DC-9 of Site Related used to be the Scottish flag. Isn't that right, Kirkie? Big grin  duck 
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
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JBo
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:27 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 136):
No doubt a political decision by the new Damned Media owners, who wish to grovel to mainland China in order to do business with them. There's a surprise. Not.

I think Viaggiare was expressing his opinion than any corporate decisions.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 138):
I think Viaggiare was expressing his opinion than any corporate decisions.

I have my doubts.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
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JBo
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:32 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 139):
I have my doubts.

Why? Viaggiare isn't on Crew, and we still have the separate UK flags and Taiwan flag. Surely if a decision had been made, those flags would be gone by now.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
6yjjk
Posts: 338
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:07 pm

Quoting Zak (Reply 130):
the eu flag is the NW DC-9 of site related

So just give 'em a Northwest DC-9 next to their username, and be done with it  Smile
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:58 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 140):
we still have the separate UK flags and Taiwan flag.

...but no EU flag. Come on DM, what are you playing at ? It's clear that a significant proportion of the users on here want one, we're paying you, so just do as you're told, please.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
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JBo
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:04 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 142):
...but no EU flag. Come on DM, what are you playing at ? It's clear that a significant proportion of the users on here want one, we're paying you, so just do as you're told, please.

Don't you think that ironing all the bugs out of the website after the server migration is a wee bit more important than the EU flag issue?
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:52 am

Quoting JBo (Reply 143):
Don't you think that ironing all the bugs out of the website after the server migration is a wee bit more important than the EU flag issue?

I thought all the bugs were fixed weeks ago. Isn't that what we were told ? Perhaps as a sop to make up for the disgracefully bad service offered by this site over the past months, an EU flag might atone at least in some small way.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
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JBo
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:50 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 144):
I thought all the bugs were fixed weeks ago. Isn't that what we were told ? Perhaps as a sop to make up for the disgracefully bad service offered by this site over the past months, an EU flag might atone at least in some small way.

I assume the first part of that comment was sarcastic, because if you've been using this site at ALL for the past few weeks, you know full well it's been damn near unusable for a large part of that time.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
zak
Posts: 1926
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:36 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 137):
Maybe now, but in the past, the NW DC-9 of Site Related used to be the Scottish flag. Isn't that right, Kirkie? Big grin

its actually been around before the scottish thing, i provided links further up
10=2
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:08 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 145):
I assume the first part of that comment was sarcastic, because if you've been using this site at ALL for the past few weeks, you know full well it's been damn near unusable for a large part of that time.

All the more reason for the new capitalist exploiters of the site to do what the customers tell them. When it was Johan in charge, fair enough if he ran the site how he wanted, it was his. Now that it's just another cash-cow for a multi-squillionaire, the least we can expect is for the owners to comply with the customer's requirements.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
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JBo
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RE: Why No EU Flag?

Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:33 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 147):
All the more reason for the new capitalist exploiters of the site to do what the customers tell them. When it was Johan in charge, fair enough if he ran the site how he wanted, it was his. Now that it's just another cash-cow for a multi-squillionaire, the least we can expect is for the owners to comply with the customer's requirements.

Well, I'm fairly certain that somewhere hire up on the thread it was stated that a decision will be made. Chances are, that decision will be made when they don't have more important things to worry about, like making the site work properly.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
ba757
Posts: 2707
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm

RE: Why No EU Flag?

Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:42 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 148):
Well, I'm fairly certain that somewhere hire up on the thread it was stated that a decision will be made. Chances are, that decision will be made when they don't have more important things to worry about, like making the site work properly.

How hard is it to say fine, give them a EU flag, then how long does it take someone to add a record to a database and shove a friggin gif/png image on a server? A minute or two at the most.

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