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User avatar
AC_B777
Posts: 762
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 5:15 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:48 pm

I really hate to say it, but this was a bad move by the "powers that be" to hand this site over to DM. For almost a week, there have'nt been any new pictures added to the db that I can see. Seems that the "Top of the last 24hours" has new pics, but nothing when I go to the "Latest additions". Still sitting at photo 1281723.
I am glad that I never gave my credit card number to upgrade my membership. I feel for my fellow members who have paid and have lost the last 3 weeks with nothing new on a.net. I hope you get reimbursed.
Unfortunatly, this site has become a real bore to visit and it looks like many people have cancelled their memberships and moved to other sites.
I hope that whoever is in charge now will get their heads screwed on right and get the site back up and running soon before they loose more people, however, I wonder if the damage has been done.
In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
 
AirMalta
Posts: 400
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:02 pm

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:08 pm

Quoting Leperkuhn (Reply 298):
We're still here. I assure you guys, we're really working on fixing the site. Unfortunately some of the problems we hit take literally over a day to figure out of they're actually resolved. Check out my post above regarding database replication and data being out of sync.

I would rather say that until the migration of the site has been fully completed and fixed the site would have been better left running from its current location.Then when everything works as it should the old server will be switched off to let those of DM. And everyone will be happy!! Screeners, uploaders, chatters etc

malc
 
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viaggiare
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting Boeingfreak (Reply 287):
I'M NOT WILLING TO PLAY THIS GAME ANYMORE!!!!!!!



Quoting Boeingfreak (Reply 287):
NOTHING is really working

C'mon, surely something's gotta be working around here. I mean, really, have you actually tried everything?


Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:04 pm

I kept getting the server overload message today as well.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
leperkuhn
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:20 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:07 pm

We've brought up another machine for photos. It should have up to date info for counters and search.
 
PAHS200
Posts: 494
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:06 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:21 pm

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/profile.main?username=Deeplight

deeplight hasn't posted in 17 days he seems to be MIA

will we ever get a response from DM? I don't mean the daily update, I mean a long letter to a.net giving us a full update on everything
 
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AviatorG
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:03 pm

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:18 am

Seen this new photo?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gianni Deligny




After being screened (for over 48 hours!) I managed to suddenly find this photo after literally days of sleeplessly searching the database. I may never regain the lost views, but I'm glad it's been found, no thanks to DM for the very unprofessional service!

G

[Edited 2007-10-22 17:32:48]
 
unattendedbag
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:35 pm

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting AviatorG (Reply 306):
I may never regain the lost views,

I'll click on it for you.  bigthumbsup 

please tell me you got a shot of P4-MES in the background!
Slower traffic, keep right
 
N74JW
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:31 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:41 am

'Latest Additions' is working for me. Whatever text file was edited, that did it. Great job!!!

Thx
rm -r *
 
Tom12
Posts: 1050
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:29 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 302):

Brilliant! Sheesh, i think you are hilarious Viaggiare.


A lot of the problems with logging in and things i haven't experienced. Is this just luck or is there a technical reason?
"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX
 
redflyer
Posts: 3905
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:43 am

This is amazing. I was being pretty patient with this migration until I realized this crap has been going on for over THREE WEEKS now. Who's running the show? Are they getting paid for this??
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
BOSSAN
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:49 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:13 am

Is anybody managing to post to the Civil Aviation forum at this point? I'm seeing very few new replies, and I'm getting a blank page over and over when I try to reply.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 26307
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:32 am

You cannot post any message with quoted text in it, BOSSAN.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 26307
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:33 am

You also can't see to post more then one line without the white page. Have to say I am not impressed with this migration and am downright boggled that a bunch of white box PCs in Sweden hosted it better then a data center...
 
leperkuhn
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:20 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:51 am

testing the posting.. hopefully this works.
 
leperkuhn
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:20 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:52 am

Sorry for the broken forum posting - we're working around the clock to fix things, sometimes stuff breaks.

It should be functional again.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting Leperkuhn (Reply 315):
Sorry for the broken forum posting - we're working around the clock to fix things, sometimes stuff breaks.

Well - do you reckon it'll hold a bit longer this time?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:10 am

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 296):
Come on, take it easy. As soon as the problems will be fixed (because they will be, I'm sure), this entire issue will be forgotten within a matter of days.

"As soon as the problems will be fixed (because they will be, I'm sure)..." The million dollar question is WHEN. We are dealing with this mess for about three weeks [???].
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
leperkuhn
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:20 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 317):
The million dollar question is WHEN. We are dealing with this mess for about three weeks

I'm really, really hoping tonight's db upgrades give us a lot more stability starting immediately. Once the site isn't coming down constantly most of the issues everyone's seeing will be ironed out on their own. Which, yes, sounds completely ridiculous, and its almost impossible to explain or justify why it's taken this long.
 
scottieprecord
Posts: 1208
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:38 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:44 am

Quoting AviatorG (Reply 306):

Haha you got a hit from me. And yea, I really hope for your sake you got Abramovich's 763!

Mike =)
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:30 am

Monique, many thanks for the updates in: Read Only - Migration Updates (by Flyheligirl Oct 22 2007 in Site Related) It is appreciated.

I have one simple request. Could you stop saying you expect solutions "very very soon", or "things are looking up", etc., and just present what's happening? I realize you'd like everyone to maintain upbeat about the status quo, but getting people's hopes up beyond reasonable expectations is only going to cause more dissension if they don't materialize.

All that A.net members really want to hear is that you're aware of the issues, and that they're being worked on. We can leave the upbeat prose for when the site is running as expected.

Thanks.
International Homo of Mystery
 
KMB
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:58 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting Leperkuhn (Reply 318):
I'm really, really hoping tonight's db upgrades give us a lot more stability starting immediately. Once the site isn't coming down constantly most of the issues everyone's seeing will be ironed out on their own. Which, yes, sounds completely ridiculous, and its almost impossible to explain or justify why it's taken this long.

Thank you for being a bit more informative about whats going on, thats much appreciated.
Better to ask a stupid question than make a stupid mistake.
 
mattbna
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:24 pm

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting 6YJJK (Reply 299):
That's fair enough, but if there's one thing DM should have learned from the IntelliTXT fiasco it's that you need to keep talking to us. Especially when there are supposed to be "daily updates". If it takes more than a day to see whether something's going to work, then come back after a day and say, "We did X Y and Z today, and now we're waiting until xx:xx to see whether it worked." Even if there are no visible changes, tell us what you did. Don't just assume people will be okay with not hearing - because the quickest way to blow any remaining credibility is to promise something as simple as a post a day and then fail to deliver even that. Is it any wonder that people are annoyed?

Has anyone taken into consideration that the powers-that-be at the top of the DM food chain could quite possibly care less what anyone on this site thinks?

I've been in the Internet business for 12 years and have participated in countless server migrations much more complex than this one... I will completely agree that this has been absolutely pathetic!

To have the money that DM has, I have to question what kind of people they went looking for when it came time to hire folks to perform their server migrations, etc. Are we working with a bunch of ITT grads with their A+ certification (which is a joke) around here or what?!?!?


I have my thoughts that there are going to be some ugly (from the user's standpoint) changes to a.net coming soon... The amount of annoying advertisements is going to get much worse (look at MySpace!) and the concern for what the users want is going to get lower and lower. There is much more money to be made off of this site in advertising than there is from people. If web sites made big money off of the users, why in the HELL would MySpace be free to use?!?!

This site has had a history for years of sweeping things under the rug. If they don't like what you have to say about something, you get banned and the forum discussion disappears. How convenient. On that note - here's a thought: try listening to what people are saying and responding to them instead of tucking your tail between your legs and making the complaints and questions disappear.

With as little communication as there has been from DM about these issues, I honestly have NO idea why all of you guys are still sitting around asking for answers and wondering where these (as I think I read) 'promised' communications disappeared to. It almost looks like they are already phasing-out the concerned forum/site user, doesn't it?

On another note - there is another site that just passed over 1 million photos and actually allows artistically amazing shots to get accepted and not just the same side shot of the same aircraft from the same spot over and over and over and over again... Maybe we should all start to move in that general direction? Their number of daily uploads and their acceptance ratios have been outnumbering a.net for months anyway! Could that have anything to do with consistent screening? Hmmmmm.........


Matt
(BNA)

--
Canon EOS 7D & 40D -- 100-400mm L IS -- 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II -- 28-135mm IS -- 10-22mm -- 18-55mm EF-S
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:34 pm

Quoting Leperkuhn (Reply 318):
I'm really, really hoping tonight's db upgrades give us a lot more stability starting immediately. Once the site isn't coming down constantly most of the issues everyone's seeing will be ironed out on their own. Which, yes, sounds completely ridiculous, and its almost impossible to explain or justify why it's taken this long.

Thanks a lot for the update.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
YHMYYZspotter
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:06 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:54 pm

Read Only - Migration Updates (by Flyheligirl Oct 22 2007 in Site Related)

Ahh thanks for the update Monique, hopefully that thread makes everyone a little more happy. Thanks to all of DM, Johan and Henrik for working so hard. Some people may not think so but I do! I know exactly what it is like.

Once again thanks and I have faith that the site will be 100% functional very soon....  Smile

Aaron
 
Tom12
Posts: 1050
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:29 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:27 pm

Quoting YHMYYZspotter (Reply 324):
Ahh thanks for the update Monique, hopefully that thread makes everyone a little more happy. Thanks to all of DM, Johan and Henrik for working so hard. Some people may not think so but I do! I know exactly what it is like.

Once again thanks and I have faith that the site will be 100% functional very soon....

Dito! I am optimistic to thank things will be back to normal, and probably better very soon!


:D
"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX
 
wcs
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:55 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:35 pm

Hi All,

I was so far quite calm, first as an IT and second because A.net is not yet vital for me. While I could understand some challenges, one more time as an IT revolving around Web and hosting business, it raises some questions.

Monique was kind enough to update us with the “read only” topic already quoted by some there. Say what? You have a 4x4 Server with 32 Gigs, just for the Master database server with, say, up to 1000/1500 users max at same time!?
For those of us not very comfortable with IT, this is not big, this is Huge. And that is just for the database.

I’m not fully aware of the former platform, but still. The site was not perfect, but more or less reliable. We still have the overload message with less than 1 000 users logged even with the new, beastlike database server.

As often with IT migration, far too much technology, too less scheduling, staging and testing topped with a disastrous communication.

Really, really sad.
Good luck for the future,

Regards,
Raphael
FLY SKYTEAM JETS
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:47 pm

Quoting YHMYYZspotter (Reply 324):
Read Only - Migration Updates (by Flyheligirl Oct 22 2007 in Site Related)

Ahh thanks for the update Monique, hopefully that thread makes everyone a little more happy. Thanks to all of DM, Johan and Henrik for working so hard. Some people may not think so but I do! I know exactly what it is like.

I wonder when the first post will be.  duck 
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7764
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:34 pm

I have to say that I was really disappointed today. After the downtime last night, I thought that the SQL updates might solve the database problems. Then, today, I get the same "server busy" message over and over again. It's working now. Will it work later? I sure hope so. Because it's getting exhausting, and disappointing, and eventually...well, you know, we move on.
 
ZakHH
Posts: 1570
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:32 pm

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:36 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 328):

For most of the day, close to nothing on this site worked for me. This included:
- photos not found
- cannot view photos in large mode
- random pics on front page not displayed
- login does not work ("Wrong password"), when logged in, I won't stay so for long
- chat does not work
- forums not loading
- when loading and posting, postings would disappear

Day 21 of the new a.net age, and yet another huge step backwards. Why should I actually believe that all that is needed is a 22nd day to make things be fine again?

And wasn't there something about an e-mail message from the new general manager, that should come within the next few days? Is that the same "few days" that will be needed to make the site run properly again? Does California have a different calendar system? So many questions...
Tired of a.net? Join a friendly aviation community!
 
leperkuhn
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:20 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:42 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 328):
I have to say that I was really disappointed today. After the downtime last night, I thought that the SQL updates might solve the database problems. Then, today, I get the same "server busy" message over and over again. It's working now. Will it work later? I sure hope so. Because it's getting exhausting, and disappointing, and eventually...well, you know, we move on.

We added a new database slave last night, but unfortunately it immediately fell behind and was displaying old data. We've been working with MySQL for the past week to try to figure out why this keeps happening.
 
FighterPilot
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:27 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:15 pm

Well I'm sick of paying $5 a month for nothing. I'm going back to premium member.

Cal  airplane 
*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
 
redflyer
Posts: 3905
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:52 pm

Quoting Leperkuhn (Reply 330):
We've been working with MySQL for the past week to try to figure out why this keeps happening.

You're an IT outfit in business to run hosted sites and applications. If I were you, the last thing I would do is admit that something has been wrong for a week and that you don't have a handle on it.

You guys are amateurs. Plain and simple.
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
6yjjk
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:40 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 332):

You're an IT outfit in business to run hosted sites and applications. If I were you, the last thing I would do is admit that something has been wrong for a week and that you don't have a handle on it.

You guys are amateurs. Plain and simple.

In fact, Leperkuhn's mentioned elsewhere that they're working with MySQL, the company, who also haven't been able to figure this out for a week, so it's not just DM. Yes, the database vendor is out of its depth too. This is worrying. To me, it suggests one of two things:
  • It's a really, really weird problem and there's no guarantee it'll be found tomorrow, this week... or
  • MySQL and/or its replication tool simply isn't up to the job of keeping all these extra boxes in sync, and there's no point in trying.
Neither's a particularly pleasant scenario. Ultimately, I'm afraid it may come down to a change of database provider! Shut it down, back it all up, and port the whole mess over to Postgres or Oracle. Of course, all hell could break loose during that process, too. But if there's no progress with MySQL really soon, surely that's a bullet DM will have to bite?

I just hope that, if they do go that way, they explain up front that the site will be down, really down, for days. That has to be better than another three weeks of this, don't you think?
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:40 pm

Monique, in reference to your "read-only", It's not that users here have no confidence in you or Leperkuhn (at least you itwo are showing visible evidence that you're trying to communicate w/users, test usage of threads and whatever else), but it looks like the guys in the guts of this are on a continual 5-day weekend. The site worked fine for a day or two at the end of last week, now it's back to the old Russian song and dance of 1 step forward, 2 steps backward.

Johan and his crew took flak in their days, but they were able to bring down the hammer on problems when they arose, usually w/in a decent time frame. These current guys are as effective as a 3rd string QB.

Quoting 6YJJK (Reply 333):
I just hope that, if they do go that way, they explain up front that the site will be down, really down, for days. That has to be better than another three weeks of this, don't you think?

Honesty is always best for business, but, at this point, how many, after hearing something like that, will go en masse to another aviation website? Were there a better one out there, I'd lean that direction.
Living the American Dream
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:57 am

Tonight in Non-Av when I click on My Starred Topics, which should then show only the topics I have posted in or selected as starred, instead it stars ALL the threads in Non-Av. At least on the first page of Non-Av. I didn't check following pages.

DM, might you consider giving all First Class members a free month? It seems to me that I have been paying for a product over the past few weeks that has not been delivered as advertised. I am not pleased.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:57 pm

Quoting YHMYYZspotter (Reply 324):
Thanks to all of DM, Johan and Henrik for working so hard. Some people may not think so but I do! I know exactly what it is like.

Once again thanks and I have faith that the site will be 100% functional very soon....

"Faith" doesn't work here. Only "hard work" to fix a lot of problems in a smooth way and the soonest.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
YHMYYZspotter
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:06 am

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:26 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 336):
Faith" doesn't work here. Only "hard work" to fix a lot of problems in a smooth way and the soonest.

Are you implying that DM, Johan and Henrik are not working hard with this statement? If so, negative comments do not help the situation at all so why post them? If it is a positive one then thats great!

We all know the bugs, yet people keep posting them. We all know there are problems, yet people keep complaining. It's just human nature I guess.

A lot of people are quick to blame DM, but did anyone blame Johan for the crappy code in the first place? The site did work, yes, but it could have been a ticking time bomb just waiting to crash and lose everything for all we know. No offence to Johan, I think he is great and did a great job. I for one trust him and trust that he has made the right decision selling this site to DM.

A lot of people think DM is out to make money, lots of money off this site, and I agree. Why shouldn't they? Johan did! Don't you all think it is in THEIR best interest to fix the site to 100% and make everyone happy as soon as possible? Loss of service means unhappy people and loss of money, plain and simple. Anybody running a business would realize this. But what do I know. I am just an IT geek administering a major data center (So forgive my grammar  psst  )

Oh well there is my rant, sorry if I offended anyone but I just needed to speak up.

Take care all, and good luck with the site.

Aaron
 
ZakHH
Posts: 1570
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:32 pm

RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:24 pm

Quoting YHMYYZspotter (Reply 337):
A lot of people are quick to blame DM, but did anyone blame Johan for the crappy code in the first place?

Yes. I said earlier that many of the bugs showing now are probably owned to the fact that the whole site is handmade, and the code is probably undocumented.

The question remains how DM could migrate the site without checking in advance if it would work. I cannot help but assume that some people were a bit dewy-eyed with their approach to this migration.

Quoting YHMYYZspotter (Reply 337):
A lot of people think DM is out to make money, lots of money off this site, and I agree. Why shouldn't they? Johan did!

There is not a single aspect speaking against making money with this site. And I will gladly contribute by delivering both content and a monthly fee.

But please go to the "Big News..." thread and check the statements from Johan and some of the DM staff. Run a reality check on these statements and see if it passes.

In order to meet the natural suspision by many of the users, DM chose to raise huge expectations towards their performance, regarding professionalism and passion for this site. The user reaction that is showing now is a logical consequence of what happened then. In the end, it is only the result that counts. Nothing else. That's business.

Quoting YHMYYZspotter (Reply 337):
Loss of service means unhappy people and loss of money, plain and simple. Anybody running a business would realize this.

Completely right, and that is why it will never cease to amaze me that there is no visible communication strategy towards the community / customers. Why do people still show up here and report things that are well known already? Because not everybody checks the site-related forum regularly. Even many regular users don't.

So why not giving a brief statement on the front page? Why was there no e-mail to the photographers and to the registered users, offering a short explanation, apology and outlook? Why no the statement to the paying customers, saying that some sort of compensation will be considered, once the technical things have been sorted out?

I can only guess why there is none, and that guess is: the people in charge at Demand Media are afraid to damage the site's reputation, so they chose to follow the delusive hope that things will be fixed again tomorrow, many people won't really notice the problems and the anger will soon be forgotten.

I have seen this strategy many times before (you just need to follow politics...), but I am yet waiting to see it work.

Of course, we all share one hope: that this site will be back to it's earlier state soon again. And I agree that we should support the people in charge, rather than disencouraging them. Especially for the developers, it is very depressing to see all the bitching and moaning here in the forums.

But even if I agree that it may be too easy to just blame DM alone for what happened here in the last 22 days, I would still say that large part of the reaction by the users is owned to their decision about how to face the problems.

And to those who say "just have a little patience": as per my humble experience with IT projects, if things that were supposed to work after 1 day still do not work after 22 days, then it is not lack of time that caused the problem, meaning that additional time alone won't solve it.

But indeed, all we can do is to hope and offer to help wherever we can. At least, we are getting occasional updates here, which is much appreciated. And I am looking forward to the statement from the general manager, that was promised to arrive by e-mail soon.
Tired of a.net? Join a friendly aviation community!
 
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ManuCH
Head Moderator
Posts: 2679
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RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:29 pm

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 338):
The question remains how DM could migrate the site without checking in advance if it would work. I cannot help but assume that some people were a bit dewy-eyed with their approach to this migration.

I'm sure they *did* check the code in advance. The problem is not caused by code errors, but by MySQL databases which fail to replicate and/or overload, as opposed to what they're supposed to do. This is not code-dependent but is probably a bug in MySQL itself, which couldn't be seen if not under heavy loads, which are very difficult to reproduce in a lab, without a live system. This has been explained very well in another thread.
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wcs
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RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:08 pm

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 339):
which couldn't be seen if not under heavy loads, which are very difficult to reproduce in a lab, without a live system. This has been explained very well in another thread.

Tend to agree, but is the load that high? So far we have on average between 500 and 1000 users at the same time. And I’m pretty sure there is far bigger configuration with MySql.
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YHMYYZspotter
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Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:13 pm

Quoting WCS (Reply 340):
Tend to agree, but is the load that high? So far we have on average between 500 and 1000 users at the same time. And I’m pretty sure there is far bigger configuration with MySql.

Now I am not sure but are you talking about logged on users? Because there may be much more than that that are surfing the site, looking at pics, reading posts etc that are just guests, who do not have any sort of account. You can't just count registered logged on users, this is a public site. Every time a photo is clicked on, a post is accessed by anyone in internet land, a query/retrieval is performed on the photo and forum databases therefore making the load grow.

[Edited 2007-10-24 11:14:20]

[Edited 2007-10-24 11:15:17]

[Edited 2007-10-24 11:16:10]
 
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LTU932
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RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:37 pm

Quoting WCS (Reply 340):
Tend to agree, but is the load that high? So far we have on average between 500 and 1000 users at the same time. And I’m pretty sure there is far bigger configuration with MySql.

Those 500-1000 users are just users that are checked in. There are still many users who aren't checked in (e.g. lurkers) or have hidden their online status. The amount of people visiting the site within 24 hours may well exceed the 60000+ users that are actually registered on the site, but that's just me speculating.
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wcs
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RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:38 pm

Hi YHMYYZspotter,

You are right, my post was unclear.

I obviously don’t have any detail regarding the website architecture; don’t know for example if pictures are stored as a blob in the DB or directly as a file with only a path on the DB and so on. It’s also unclear if the forum has its own front end, while another group of server could be dedicate to pictures.

I’m comfortable with the sync problem, it is very obvious to pinpoint. With the load, it’s unclear. The DB server (Master) is a beast and must be far more powerful than the previous “European” setup. It maybe wastes important time trying to sync with other. And I figure that 2/3 of the forum users are authenticate, but that is just an hypothesis.

Best Regards,
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wcs
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RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:42 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 342):
The amount of people visiting the site within 24 hours may well exceed the 60000+ users that are actually registered on the site, but that's just me speculating

I really doubt that, consider the typical ratio between registered/logged on a forum. You also have to consider time zones, which helps in this case.

But I’m like you: this is just speculation. I would love to know more of the architecture, as an IT.
Best Regards,
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RacingGreen07
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RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:03 pm

Ok well I am a TOTAL n00b when it comes to computers.

I just wanted to know, why is server migration so difficult? And how long does it usually take for the problems and kinks to be ironed out?

I thought with the advent of technology processes like this are more easier and manageable therefore less downtime is incurred.....

But then again there are literally MILLIONS of photographs to be transferred so I guess if we just wait a few more weeks then everything will be fixed........hopefully.......theres always hope.

Kind Regards.
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ZakHH
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RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:19 pm

I doubt that the site has more visitors these days than it regularly had over the last months. And, apart from the occasional hiccups of Johan's servers (which usually resulted in a temporary blackout), it was running stable then.

DM appeared on the scene, being introduced as the guys with top hardware, top experts and huge experience. We were asked to expect nothing but improvements.

Migration started 22 days ago now...
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PAHS200
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RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:51 pm

has Johan commented on the migration yet?
 
TACAA320
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RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting YHMYYZspotter (Reply 337):

Are you implying that DM, Johan and Henrik are not working hard with this statement?

These are your words, not mine.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
administrator
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RE: Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns

Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:41 pm

Guys,

Things turned out terribly bad. These have been some of the most frustrating weeks I've ever experienced. I never thought moving the servers over to the US on totally new hardware was going to be easy but could never have imagined this. To all that think otherwise, we have been totally devoted to fixing this, sometimes working late into the night and early morning.

And now, things are actually looking up. All important functions and sections now work perfectly and we are working on the smaller bugs and problems. I do apologize for the problems the last weeks, I certainly agree it's been unacceptable. It makes me sad to think of how many users we lost on this. I can only say this experience will make us try even harder to improve the site in the future.

Regards,
Johan
Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
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